I am still sort of reeling from a bizarre incident that happened to me earlier today.
I was in kind of a low mood today for various inconsequential reasons, so I decided to duck out of work to do a little clothes shopping for Pesach - I envisioned a nice relaxing hour or so spent in retail therapy. Alas, it was not to be.
I walked into a store that had a cute dress in the window and was immediately accosted by a superthin, superblonde, superperky, superpushy sales person, offering to help. Now, I absolutely loathe pushy sales staff. When approached with the dreaded "Anything I can help you with today?", I have pretty much mastered the cool, disinterested response of "No thanks, just looking". It usually works as an instant deterrent to overly pushy sales people. Not today. Five seconds after I had selected some cute items and ensconced myself in the fitting room, a disembodied hand which I assume belonged to annoying pushy bleached blonde saleswoman (hereafter APBBS) appeared from behind the curtain, with some sort of flimsy green chiffon sequined miniskirt dangling from it. "Isn't this just adorable?" came the voice that I can only assume was attached to the hand, attached to APBBS. "I have it here in your size!" My reply: "Um, thanks, but it's just not me." Not thirty seconds later, APBBS: "How about this one?" This time, some sleeveless ruffled concoction appears, attached to the floating hand. How annoying? I figure that if I tell APBBS that the clothes have to be longer and have sleeves, perhaps APBBS will stop bothering me and I can try on my selections in peace. So I peek my head out and quickly explain to APBBS that the clothes have to be more modest, so thanks for all the suggestions, but no thanks. Her eyes widen in recognition as I see it click in her brain that I am "one of those", and she scurries away, hopefully to leave me alone for a few minutes.
Yeah. Nice try. Next up, waving from behind the velvet curtain? Some frothy little pink suit with black lace trim. Not exactly my taste (though I'll give the woman credit, it was relatively modest). "How about this, sweetie? It's great for synagogue!". Argh. "Thanks, it just isn't my style". And then again: "How about this darling sweater? All of the Jewish girls love it!" (She really really said that.) At that point, I was finishing up as fast as I could, and I came out to see how the dress looked in the mirror (this being a store with the annoying breed of fitting rooms that do not have a mirror in each individual room, forcing customers out to use the large communal mirror - all the better to give the pushy annoying sales staff every opportunity to get access to torture you). At which point, APBBS came over and began tying the sash for me and adjusting the dress. The dress which I was actually wearing at that moment. At which point, due to my feelings about getting touched by people I don't know but already don't like, I sort of started backing away from her. At which point, APBBS said "Don't worry, you can let me touch you to fix your belt, I'm Jewish too, so I'm a very clean woman". At which point, Orthomom was rendered completely speechless for a moment. When I found my tongue, I mumbled something about not liking strangers to touch me, whether they were Jewish or non-Jewish (not necessarily the appropriate response to her bizarro comment, but really, is there actually even an appropriate response to such a bizarro comment??), got dressed and got the heck out of the store.
But the whole experience was a bit unnerving for me. I could have taken the idiotic comments about an outfit being "great for synagogue" or "what all the Jewish girls are wearing". That may well just be APBBS's idea of what pandering to a potential customer means. (I think you should try this skirt on, it's perfect for eating Matzah! Wouldn't this shirt would be great for lighting Hanukah candles!) But her comment that implied that I somehow was annoyed that she was touching me because she was a non-Jew? Do you think there are really people who live and work in the middle of Manhattan who think that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't be allowed to casually touch a non-Jew because they are somehow unclean? You have to wonder how many layers of misinformation and misunderstandings about Orthodox Judaism would bring someone (who claims to be Jewish, to boot!) to think that.
I can see how the no male-female touching could be misconstrued
ReplyDeleteWow, that is, as you say, "bizzarro". Though this woman sounds like she was probably well-meaning.
ReplyDeleteDAG said...
ReplyDeleteI can see how the no male-female touching could be misconstrued
I agree, but think how many layers of misconstruing there would have to have been. The male/female misunderstanding, in addition to the weird jew/non-jew misconception.
great story, classic ny.
ReplyDeletesome sort of odd planetary alignment as well as an offloading of the Mothership.
ReplyDeleteI HATE pushy salespeople. I almost want to say to them "no you can't help me, I know what I am looking for and if you don't leave me alone - you will lose a sale."
But I don't. I am too damn polite. Even when I was very pregnant with my twins - and people wanted to touch my belly. (I really dislike being touched at all now) It took a while for me to tell them to back off.
Really a twilight zone moment for you Orthomom!
I think it all comes down to people mistaking the insular nature of our community with a superiority complex
ReplyDeletefrom the APBBS to the school board
Perhaps someone gave a really poor explanation of (or she horribly misunderstood) niddah?
ReplyDelete"Do you think there are really people who live and work in the middle of Manhattan who think that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't be allowed to casually touch a non-Jew because they are somehow unclean? You have to wonder how many layers of misinformation and misunderstandings about Orthodox Judaism would bring someone (who claims to be Jewish, to boot!) to think that."
ReplyDeleteTrust me, the layers are endless.
I had Orthodox neighbors as a kid in the 60s who my parents were (and for that matter, still are) very good friends with. My folks made sure as kids we understood and respected their lifestyles, religious beliefs and holidays. To the point of "Don't cut the damn lawn on Saturday morning you dopey kid, the neighbors are observing the Sabbath" Not that they would have cared. It was just the neighborly thing to do.
I've also been fortunate enough to have spent well over a decade in business working in the Orthodox community.
When I hear some of the things that 'my people' think goes on in the "Orthodox world" it's really amazing. Where do people get this stuff?
But to be fair, some Orthodox folks are equally oblivious to what goes on in the rest of the world. The questions people ask me are pretty funny sometimes, but the very fact that people are willing to learn and to explain their own traditions to others shows that they simply misunderstood, not that they were being mean.
So, OM, did you feel like you were in an episode of Sienfeld, or what? ;-) "All the Jewish girls love it"...thats great.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=5603#comments
ReplyDeletetouching poem
Ugh. ::shudders::
ReplyDeleteFreaky.
At least you escaped when you did.
My sympathies.
Great story. But it doesn't surprise me one bit. I have met up with similar attitudes from coworkers. "Did the rabbi bless that sandwich?"
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking back 20 years ago when I was in your shoes, Orthomom - working in the city, shopping in the city...I dont' think the typical salesperson would have even had the opportunity to be exposed to many religious Jewish women and their clothing requirements. Most religious women shopped at local stores in their own neighborhoods with the exception of major department stores. So in a way this is a good thing. Our numbers have grown and we are more out there, hopefully setting good examples for the world to learn.
ReplyDeleteMaybe APBBS is gay or bi and thought you were hot. Maybe that's why she wanted to touch you.
ReplyDeleteThat's just the reason why I don't buy anything in those stores.
ReplyDeleteNaw, just kidding.
lol!
ReplyDeleteWhen I started working, I was forced to explain to a certain coworker, who was very touchy feely and needed some ground rules, about the basics of shomer negiah and that he should not be offended but I won't be hugging him every time we come back from the weekend, etc.
He automatically assumed that it was because he wasn't Jewish (as in, the reason we don't intermarry is because we don't touch gentiles)! He could not believe that I don't touch Jewish guys either... it was very uncomfortable! I probably should have hugged him just to avoid the conversation :)
I recall hearing a local 5T Rabbi say how lucky he was that he rarely has to look at goyim while he admires the difficult we have, in having to see/look at goyim on a weekly basis. so I would not be suprised if some Yiddim do not want ta'ma people touching them.
ReplyDeleteI think that you were in a REALLY bad mood and nothing was going to fix it. Your store story... tell me where. I don't even know a place anymore that offers help. You should have had a piece of chocolate instead. Better luck today.
ReplyDeleteYour store story... tell me where. I don't even know a place anymore that offers help.
ReplyDeleteOf course they do. This must be one of those Manahttan boutiques. Those pushy sales staff can kill a person with kindness.
I was astonished by the ignorance in the comment thread to the Gothamist article about Shabbos keys in Stuy-town. I think in the last 30 years general ignorance about Orthodox Jews has skyrocketed among the rest of the population - probably because we never interact with the rest of the population anymore, especially as kids.
ReplyDeleteI'll specify "interact SOCIALLY", so mutual respect and understanding can be engendered.
ReplyDeleteI'm usually in the camp advancing the benign intentions argument, but I believe these encounters are indicators of the demographic shift occurring among American Jews.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it: it's easier for many nonobservant Jews to set up straw men concerning Yiddishkeit rather than be honest with themselves and say, "I don't want to make the sacrifice of keeping kosher," etc.
Many of the people we meet today were fed erroneous information about Orthodox life by their parents and grandparents, who wanted an excuse to abandon Jewish life. And, to be fair, being observant was a lot tougher 75 years ago! Some of us might not have withstood the challenge ourselves.
Some simply feel threatened by increased Orthodox visibility, and are a bit too eager to pass along negative interpretations.
I come into contact with reprentatives of non-frum institutions through my work, and not a week goes by that I don't hear a gem from a kind, well-meaning, and otherwise educated Jew.
This week is still young, but last week's winner was the woman who explained that no one in her congregation can observe kashrus because "we don't live in NYC, so we can't get any kosher food -- we'd starve to death".
"Don't worry, you can let me touch you to fix your belt, I'm Jewish too, so I'm a very clean woman"
ReplyDeleteI actually laughed when I read that line. You should have asked her if she dipped in the mikvah before work to be able to touch the Jewish ladies.
That is just awful! I also hate unwanted touching from strangers. It hasn't happened to me for awhile - but when I was pregnant? Oh boy! People think that pregnant women are open territory. It's ok to touch, rub, jiggle, bump, shake and roll that belly! Hands off, I say!
This woman had no right to touch you, nor put her "floating hands" into your dressing room. You didn't ask for her help.
Ironically, she lost a sale with her pushy tactics.
I was reading a book on the Jews in Shanghai during WWII (to help my daughter with a report... she was too young to actually read this particular book herself, and only needed a small bit of info from it) and I came across this particular gem, when the main character was trying to convince (successfully) a non-religious friend to not get engaged to one of those "crazy" Mir Yeshiva Bochurim: "You'll have to go to the mikvah after every menstruation ends to be dunked and blessed over by the Rabbis." Okay, who here has ever seen Rabbis present at a woman's monthly mikvah visit, (conversion to Judaism ceremonies excepted, of course)?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I would have been just as creeped out, by the pushiness, by the touching especially, and by the strange comments. Sorry you had to go through that!
i agree there should be no touching except i try not to touch you disgusting filthy people
ReplyDeleteapbbs
GoyGuy...great comment!
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy your comments - they are very refreshing and give me hope. You seem to really "get us" (orthos). You get that, yes, we have some strange customs and tend to be private/shy to outsiders but that we are inherently good people who are just a bit misunderstood.
I may be wrong, but that's what I've gleaned from your comments in the past.
Anyway, regarding your comment above - Can you give us some juicy examples of some of the more common and /or comical misconceptions people have about orthodox Jews?
I think we'd all like to hear this from you perspective.
The classic that comes to mind is the old "Hole in the sheet" myth...
Fox-
ReplyDeleteYou should read this week's Jewish week.
This woman writes in about the recent conservative kashrut teshuva explaining that it's too hard for Jews in the boondocks to keep kosher, because they need to go to restaurants for quality time with their spouses and because "It's too hard to cook 21 meals a week for your family" (!)
It's really unbelievable the crazy ideas people assume are a general truth for everyone.
give me a break. It is hard to cook 21 meals a week !
ReplyDelete"
ReplyDeleteI agree, but think how many layers of misconstruing there would have to have been. The male/female misunderstanding, in addition to the weird jew/non-jew misconception."
Not that many layers! Chazal gave a shiksa a din as if she were a niddah specifically so we (you know, the default male we) wouldn't touch them.
Ortho- if you werent so passive aggressive, this wouldnt have been a problem.
ReplyDeleteThe vision of Orhtomom ensconced in the fitting room.
ReplyDeleteThe vision of OrthoMom in a little suit with black lace trim.
The vision of Orthomom touched around the waste by a superthin, superblonde woman.
The vision of Orthomom in a flimsy green chiffon sequined miniskirt.
The vision of Orhtomom on the receiving end of floating hand.
The vision of Orthomom tied with a sash wearing an adjustable the dress.
I think I'm about to have a Bizzaro experience myself.
Later, babe.
i would boycott the store for being that pushy. not to mention offensive. there's a beggar in my neighborhood who makes believe he's jewish because he thinks it'll make the jews more likely to give him money.
ReplyDelete"superthin, superblonde, superperky"
ReplyDeleteGet over yourself.
you shouldnt have played hookey from work and gone shopping but rather go aehad to teshuva
ReplyDeleteHere's how it happens.
ReplyDeleteRight in beautiful downtown Cedarhurst there's a little shop that sells imported children's clothes. The shopkeeper, Jewish/Israeli, had been warned numerous times by the broker for an imported line of clothing against smuggling in the clothing line and avoiding the import fee set by the licensed broker.
The broker went into the store Tuesday afternoon and told the shopkeeper, after seeing contraband clothing in the store, that she was going to call the authorities. The broker left the store to make a call on her cell and the shopkeeper came outside and threw a hot cup of coffee on the broker. the broker called the Police and the shopkeeper was taken away in cuffs. The broker was overheard saying, "This is the last time I do business with Jews."
Anon 10:53 PM- Absolutely hysteical!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:01 PM - Is this a true story?!?
Goy Guy- You are a Good Guy
It certainly is.
ReplyDeletei am not one of those touchy feely people with anyone, and it boggles my mind how people (men and women, jewish and not) think nothing of violating someone else's three feet of personal space.
ReplyDeleteWhen I see someone leaning in for that hug - I always say "i don't do that" with my hand up. and then i smile to lessen the tension and change the subject. after 11 years in the outside world i've really mastered this.
And the best thing is you never need ice in your beverages.
ReplyDeletehuh?
ReplyDeleteorthomom can you tell us the name of the store so i can tell my RA BBI get up on shabbos on the bima and tell us all to boycott the store (just like they did in Gourmet Glatt)!
ReplyDeleteorthomom can you tell us the name of the store so i can tell my RA BBI get up on shabbos on the bima and tell us all to boycott the store (just like they did in Gourmet Glatt)!
ReplyDeleteI love it!! lets just force that dress shop owner to sell her business. that will teach her a lesson!
my wife had an opposite experience in Boora Park.
ReplyDeleteBeing M.O., the salewomen didnt even approach her. She was able to shop in peace without ebing harrassed. Its like when we are in Brooklyn for a Shabbos and go to my family's yeshivish shul. The women do not even ackknowledge her with a Good Shabbos.
I'm sure you get mail looking for donations from all those Boro Park shuls & yeshivas
ReplyDeletei actually live in brooklyn and keep on getting shnoor letters from the five towns and farrockaway mosdos
ReplyDeleteHUH????????????
Sounds like a 'fun' place to shop.
ReplyDeleteThough we loath Jewish Stores typically because they dont have helpful staff...but that store really had a too helpful staff
Great post. An OM classic!
ReplyDeletethe caf hachaim paskins u must wash your hands after u shake hands with a gentile
ReplyDeleteMidvar sheker t'rchak
ReplyDeleteRDC: Aren't you giving shiur at 1:34pm?
ReplyDeletebizzaro- isnt he a doctor in the 5T
ReplyDeleteGreat story. I hope you can laugh at it now.
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