Larry Gordon has the
tale of a nasty campaign ad planned for the upcoming election that should shock you. The proposed ad shows a clear intent to deceive voters. Apparently, some people seem to think that it's appropriate to use any tactics whatsoever to get out the vote - and evidently, promoting hysteria is the tactic du jour.
Why don't you print a picture of the yearbook ad so everyone can be a judge for themselves?
ReplyDeleteOM did you forget about the campaigning the Orthodox have run the last few years? The flyers saying that bussing is going to be cut? Or what about the flyers Sussman's kids were handing out that said your taxes were going to go up 15% if the budget passed?
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you print a picture of the yearbook ad so everyone can be a judge for themselves?
Read the article. This was a planned ad, but as far as I know, has not run yet.
OM did you forget about the campaigning the Orthodox have run the last few years? The flyers saying that bussing is going to be cut? Or what about the flyers Sussman's kids were handing out that said your taxes were going to go up 15% if the budget passed?
I'm sorry, but how can you compare an ad about cutting bus service (which WAS actually discussed at some point), or the lawn sign calling two candidates the PUBLIC school candidates (remember that one?) to the ad we are talking about?
Here we are talking about a plan to knowingly distort a photograph that is completely unrelated to anything in the proposed ad, and play on the fears that "the Orthodox" want to "take over" the public school system. That may well be the biggest fear of some people in the community, that the private school community is not going to rest until they take over the building that is the jewel of the private school system. I can assure you that is not the case, and any rational, thinking human being will see that scare tactic for what it is. Untrue.
Stunts like this are what add to the air of mistrust and resentment that has gotten our fine community into this mess in the first place. They, and every other stunt designed to only encourage the enmity must simply stop immediately.
I wonder the motives of this paper. How can they use what those crazy girls did as a joke, lol. Uh, not funny, and the paper defending them leaves us to wonder. How is a cute joke, to put a public high school in there year book and say under construction. The paper should realize by writing this article I think you will find many people will not appreciate the humor. In a community that is already on its edge, this paper is inciting the very hatred that young people could misunderstand. I hold this newspaper responsible for anything that comes of of this article. It is time we hold the journalist responsible for the hatred they spew. If The Herald ran this article, I doubt anyone would think it was cute.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI wonder the motives of this paper. How can they use what those crazy girls did as a joke, lol. Uh, not funny, and the paper defending them leaves us to wonder. How is a cute joke, to put a public high school in there year book and say under construction.
Um, did you read the article? There was a picture of their decrepit high school building next to the picture of the middle school, with a note "under construction". It's clear that this joke was a good-natured jab at how unhappy they were with their own high school building - and the middle school building was the nicest building they could find to photograph as a contrast. Do you really think these high school girls made this yearbook joke as some sort of world-domination plan?
Take off your tinfoil hat, please. You're exactly the kind of voter this planned ad was hoping to target.
It is time we hold the journalist responsible for the hatred they spew. If The Herald ran this article, I doubt anyone would think it was cute.
The hatred here is in this planned ad, not in the article about it. And if you want to talk about biased reporting, the Herald is exactly the paper I would have mentioned.
The hatred here is in this planned ad, not in the article about it. And if you want to talk about biased reporting, the Herald is exactly the paper I would have mentioned.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, there are know other schools from here to Brooklyn that are not nice? I can name five that are nicer than ours. For those of us who have been inside the crown jewel original bathrooms, with no doors on some stalls, I find there humor to be pathetic, spare the fact there in Brooklyn, anyway everyone knows, Halb wants 6 and 5 and there shoving us in like cattle in train cars, ironic.
For those of us who have a brain, these girls did not think of this themselves. So give it up. Go on and on about your equality it is never going to happen; the governor said public first, the law claims public first, majority or not, we know without the addition to the public school programs to help the kids in desperate need, and the increased class size, we will fail, and then this board will be removed, you remember the speech, you used it in your article about Kulanu, perhaps as a "joke" we should encouarage failure of all tests, this way the board is out the governor is in, and Blaine Prevails.
ReplyDeleteHerald is exactly the paper I would have mentioned
ReplyDeleteOh yes, let us see a board member writes an article comparing the public school parent to the people who tried to conquer Queen Esther . Are you for real. Larry Gordon want to close all the elementry schools and cattle us into one building, whats next a yellow P on my kids chest. Shame on you all of you. Tell you what I don't want to pay for your twelve children on Medicaid, can I just opt out? Or I don't use the bus, how bout I stop paying taxes. It is a know fact this community wants more, and want to pay less. Read the budget, not matrons, no reserve, and bigger increases later on. Anyone who votes yes, needs there head examined. Hey, put a three year old on a bus without a matron, there is your equality,,,
I hope that school never buys that property. Can you imagine the tuition raise that would result in order to have sufficient funds just to such a building!
ReplyDeleteBrooklyn is withing 15 miles? Next, ramapo will be 10 miles.
ReplyDeleteIn Williamsburg the Satmer demonstrate in front of the Belzer syangouge as they do not share the same interpretation of jewish law. JEW AGAINST JEW. In Israel the ultra orthodox throw stones at the less observant for driving on shabbat or going to the cinema. JEW AGAINST JEW. And here in The Five Towns the old line Jewish community feels threatend by a more traditional population that is in a very strong growth mode. Once again..JEW AGAINST JEW. Can we please cut the crap out! We have enough enemies.
ReplyDeleteChildren Failing Ela 0 dollars
ReplyDeleteChildren Failing Math tests 0 dollars
State removing the school board
PRICELESS,,,,,, THE POSSIBILITY IS THERE... LOL Just a joke, kidding, you know mastercard. I just figured while we are all joking. ACLU want to repeal Board of Ed vs allen in a class action suit,,,LOL LOL joke, funny ha ha, The district will no long bus to school during school holidays saving taxpayer millions... Lol kidding just a joke. We will follow the Blaine amendment.PRICELESS, NO JOKE!!!!!
For those of us who have been inside the crown jewel original bathrooms, with no doors on some stalls, I find there humor to be pathetic, spare the fact there in Brooklyn, anyway everyone knows, Halb wants 6 and 5 and there shoving us in like cattle in train cars, ironic.
ReplyDeleteLarry Gordon want to close all the elementry schools and cattle us into one building, whats next a yellow P on my kids chest.
OM, I truly hope these two comments come from the same individual. Because if the public school folks' new talking points involve comparing the orthos to Nazis, I think I'm going to throw up.
Did somone say Nazi's? As a jew I am insulted. First the article about the public community against Queen Esther, now a Nazi comment, is this what it is coming to? Perhaps anom was joking, you know a fun joke, lol?
ReplyDeletePpl r saying that the source of the pic was the printer we used 4 the yearbook!! Can u believe??? Not cool at all.
ReplyDeleteReally it does not matter who did this, I think I would be less irate if it was a local school, like Halb, or DRS, but you know what, I know many children and parents from that school, and they would never do something that dumb. They have a lot more class and integrity, they would know this would cause problems, and frankly they do not want those type of frum here either. No not a local person, anyway there is not doubt in my mind that a local community member would not leak the names of children, they have far more intelligence and integrity then those in Brooklyn. Let us face it, we have more class.
ReplyDelete"Ppl r saying that the source of the pic was the printer we used 4 the yearbook!! Can u believe??? Not cool at all."
ReplyDeletethats outrageous if true... isnt that a complete breach of professionalism and trust? is there anything the alps people wont do to win??
Yearbook editor, what was the name of the printer? If this is true, then no yeshiva (or any school for that matter) should use them again. I would also like to see the yearbook contract. I would be surprised if it didn't have some sort of provision prohibiting this kind of conduct.
ReplyDeleteApparently, one of the heads of the ALPS campaign is in the printing business and does business with the local printer that printed the yearbook.
ReplyDeleteGordon speaks of coming together but spits vitriol and his lack of knowledge of the reality of how the school's operate would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
ReplyDeleteI would be surprised if it didn't have some sort of provision prohibiting this kind of conduct.
ReplyDeleteNot just breach of contract. Try defamation, misappropriation, copyright infringement.... Shall I go on?
Again, aside from the breathtaking breach of trust between a yearbook printer and high school students. Shocking really.
The Brooklyn chapter of OOTDFTPS (Orthodox Out to Destroy Five Towns Public Schools) meeting has been posponed until next week. At the meeting, the cabal will chastise the yearbook committee for revealing our neferious plans. The information should not have been revealed until after we had destroyed all public education in the Five Towns. Especially since there was no profit in it for us, and, as everyone knows (especially presidential candidates) we are have a tradition of being all about the money. On the Plus side -- at least they never found out the "secret ingredient" for our matzohs.
ReplyDeleteis there anything the alps people wont do to win??
ReplyDeleteYou know what, for a bunch of educated people we are not that bright. First, somone needs to find out who allowed the girls to do this, I can guarantee none of the local yeshivas would ever be allowed to do it. It should not be who leaked the info, it is more why would the girls pick a middle school on long island when they are in Brooklyn? There needs to be accountabillity from adults. Joke or not, stop the blame, find out who it is, and go from there, if you ask me, both side are not acting that mature....
I can guarantee that the studio doing the yearbook never gave permission to re-use their work in such manner. If no permission was given then the school and the girls are guilty of violating the copyright laws. The penalties for such a violation are very serious..
ReplyDeleteUhu. So your thinking is that a girl in brooklyn is to blame for contrasting her shabby high school building with a random public school building as a joke? I hope that's not official ALPS response.
ReplyDeleteThe picture was inserted as an innocent joke, which should not have insulted, offended or concerned anyone.
Then, the yearbook appears to have been stolen and the innocent joke (and the girls' contact info - for whatever reason) was exploited by ALPS to dupe naive voters.
And you think the school should be blamed?
Good job ALPS! You guys really know how to put your best foot forward.
Good job ALPS!
I can guarantee that the studio doing the yearbook never gave permission to re-use their work in such manner. If no permission was given then the school and the girls are guilty of violating the copyright laws. The penalties for such a violation are very serious..
ReplyDeleteHere's some yearbook 101, for those who can't grasp what happened here. Senior class prepares yearbook content, lines up a printer to do the job, sends the proof to the printer, and printer delivers the yearbook. Printer generally keeps the proofs and/or printed yearbook on file (or on computer).
In this case, the local printer has released the proofs or actual yearbook including personal contact information to a third party, which was probably an ALPS "leaders" with ties in the printing business. Obviosly, the girls in Brooklyn haven't been looking for ALPS members to share their yearbook with.
So there was an illegal activity here, it was between the printer and ALPS.
I can guarantee that the studio doing the yearbook never gave permission to re-use their work in such manner. If no permission was given then the school and the girls are guilty of violating the copyright laws. The penalties for such a violation are very serious..
ReplyDeleteHuh? Can you read? The girls didn't "re-use" the photo. ALPS did with the help of the printer, to whom these girls presumably gave their trust. The only people who violated the law here is ALPS and the printer.
Then, the yearbook appears to have been stolen and the innocent joke (and the girls' contact info - for whatever reason) was
ReplyDeleteLets blame alps, well I am not a member of this alps, and you know what its not funny its dumb. This school is in Brooklyn why would they even use a long island building? Stop blaming alps, if it was such a joke, than what is the big deal if they use it. One candidate said if you want busing vote for me, knowing that people in this community did not know it takes a referendum to do away with busing. The budget has no increase in programs, no new technology, and no plan to fix anything. People are upset, and if anyone can't see this, well tough. Nothing to do with public private, read the budget, read the fine print, we will need larger increases, and we can get a loan? Why would we want to. No bus matrons, no new programs for the kids. Folks, we need to prioritize, our kids need to be number one, this board is xxxxxx us over. Just like the promised phone system. Four months ago, and yet not one proposal, but we have pre-k busing. January, NY TIMES, we will hire a consultant no consultant, but we have busing. This board is going to be held responsible by the state for the NCLB lists, were still on it, they are gone, not a threat just the facts, read the governors, speech. He is making public education his mission.
ah, maybe some of the girls going to that brooklyn school reside in the 5 Towns....duh.
ReplyDeleteYes, the public school system is most certainly a mess. I know this because all of the incomprehensible, badly written, illogical comments on this blog are pro-ALPS (in fact, the only thing I can glean from comments of this sort is that the writer supports ALPS).
ReplyDeleteCould it be a Brooklyn school with a "sister school" in the 5 Towns?
ReplyDeleteThe people who say that this is all about the kids and then make it clear theyare totally fine with using high school students' private yearbook against them in this public way to take a cheap political shot are showing something. They are showing exactly which kids its all about.
ReplyDeleteThis all reminds me of Stephen Clements when he bashed Ilana Yurkiwiecz. Lets use and abuse the kids to score cheap political points. After all, it isn't about the kids, right? Its about making stupid points.
Or how about another great role model. Lets tell our kids that suing is more important than their right to free speech. I mean, ilana y. should have shut her mouth and her teachers and role models made that clear. Now lets show the rest of the kids that they should keep their mouth shut or else their board members might sue them. Or that they can't make a private yearbook because their pictures and private jokes are liable to be handed over by a shifty printer who shows how much he cares about the kids.
But what's that we keep hearing? "Its all about the kids"
B******t.
Let us hope and pray that Larry Gordon is correct in everything he wrote - since he is the only person what has seen this - and let's hope it is true - and will be published. Otherwise, Larry Gordon's credibility is not only "down the tubes", but he is inciting mass hysteria on the other end of the spectrum.
ReplyDeleteUntil it is printed, published or otherwise, this should be treated as "Lashon Hara".
Or maybe "Tikkun Olam"
ReplyDeleteUntil it is printed, published or otherwise, this should be treated as "Lashon Hara".
ReplyDeleteI'm sure this will be printed or otherwise disseminated (without the personal information that ALPS has circulated), but you clearly don't know what "lashon hara" means anyway.
oh, it's true. alps are scratching their heads over how this got out. the printing company is in deep doodoo.
ReplyDeleteWeather the girls edited the picture or the printing company did, it is still illegal unless the studio gave permission to do so. If permission was not given, the studio can sue for damages and according to the latest copyright laws the studio will win.
ReplyDeleteWhat studio? Is this ALPS latest spin? Are you actually suggesting that the girls are to blame for ALPS stealing the yearbook?
ReplyDeleteDon't be alarmed, ALPS folks, Adam Feder is clearly on the case.
ReplyDeleteLarry Gordon is completely trustworthy and does not make things up.
ReplyDeleteHe is a professional, experienced journalist.
If he wrote it, you can count on it being true.
I don't think there's any question as to the veracity of the story. Rather than denying it, the ALPS people have been dancing around the issues and trying to spin the story as the girls' fault.
ReplyDelete'What studio? Is this ALPS latest spin? Are you actually suggesting that the girls are to blame for ALPS stealing the yearbook?'
ReplyDeleteThe studio that made the original photo. They own it outright and a good attorney will easily find out who is responsible.
The studio that made the original photo. They own it outright and a good attorney will easily find out who is responsible
ReplyDeleteAnd you know this how? And even if the girls misused the photo, how does that justify misappropriation, defamation and breach of contract? Oh, right. Two wrongs make a right. What a wonderful lesson to teach the kids of SD15.
OMGOMGOMG! I cannot BELIEVE that there are people who are arguing that this is about the GIRLS! Every single person in SD15 should be condemning this!! CHILDREN ARE NOT PAWNS!!
ReplyDeleteAnd I want to mention I am not a private school parent, nor a public school parent, but I am a public school TEACHER. This is about KIDS. It would be good if people REMEMBERED that.
'And you know this how? And even if the girls misused the photo, how does that justify misappropriation, defamation and breach of contract? '
ReplyDeleteHow do I know this? Simple, I am a studio. If this was done to me, I would file law suits up and down the board. Attorneys who deal with this particular topic will be able to sort out who is responsible. Certainly the innocent are not responsible for someone else's dishonesty. The lawyers can sort that out, that's what they are fore.
P.S. The copyright laws are federal not state.
It is my understanding that a very similar flyer was circulated last week by the private school parents (with the same picture and name of the Brooklyn yeshiva on it)?
ReplyDeleteIs this true?
If ALPS printed this, there is only one person responsible, and it isn't related to PIP Printing in any way.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to get my hands on the flyer that was circulating last week with the same photo - without any digital enhancements.
I don't want falsehoods as serious as this one to get the whole community up in arms, especially for the safety and well-being of ALL OUR CHILDREN.
"If he wrote it, you can count on it being true."
ReplyDelete(referring to Larry Gordon)
programs have been cut since the austerity budgets began. therefore, the esteemed Mr. Gordon is wrong on this point. it seems reasonable to believe that he could be wrong in other areas as well.
The following programs have been cut; Pre-K Busing, Spanish, Gate Enrichment, Super Saturday/Sunday. It seems odd to add back busing before education. Hey, I gues convenience is paramount to education.
ReplyDeleteThat was Spanish for the early grades. They still have Spanish for the middle school and up.
ReplyDeleteSome of the athletic programs were cut also. Not the major ones, but I do remember that the boy's bowling team was cut among the other athletics and then only the boy's bowling was brought back as parents loudly protested about that.
No school trips either...
ReplyDeleteThese are all significant cuts, no?
Lets cut the BS about no change in the education.
No school trips, no late buses, no early buses, parents needing to buy supplies for some of the classes, etc.
ReplyDeleteIt's changed big time - but we've been shelling out money on behalf of quality education.
Wait. Its a lie to say super saturday/sunday were cut because of austerity. They were cut before the community fliped out and started voting down budgets. If anything, I tink that was a catalyst. Also, lets be honets, they weren't educational programs. They were extracurricular. Neither is bowling. I have a hars time arguing that bowling is an urgent educational expenditure. The parents that howled about it made a choice of that over reading specialists. Its all a trade off. A lot of good schools don't have bowling teams. Lets be honest here.
ReplyDeleteThen everything at her reunions is so well proportioned--she has just enough of music, and just enough of whatever amusement may add to the pleasure of bextra her guests; and still there is no appearance of design or management on her part.. He laughed prozac lightly.. ' He did not much frequent social festivals after this failure, but he always told the story with satisfaction effexor and a quiet smile.. He saw that his friend aspirin was nearly frightened out of his wits, and that, figuratively speaking, he must step to the helm and take charge of the vessel.. He had dined at the right hand of prednisone the chairman, and he spoke in high terms of the repast.. he'll be quiet enough when zoloft he gets up, said Podington.. For example, it is true that it is possible to fall out of a window, and that some care must be exercised when one is near a window, calcium but it is inexplicable why the anxiety in the corresponding phobia is so great, and why it follows its victims to an extent so much greater than is warranted by its origin.. Let 'em bring viagra in their own traps, he commented, and Aunt Margaret fled, ashamed and conscience-smitten, to the kitchen.. Why don't you take off your life-preserver and let that phentermine other man put it on his head? The two friends looked at each other and could not help joining in the laughter of the boys.. Another manifestation of the dream work which all incoherent prednisolone dreams have in common is still more noticeable.. There's not a single mirror left in the trazodone house! she moaned.. Thus I have avoided stating whether I connect with the word suppressed another tylenol sense than with the word repressed.. Besides, she did not forget that her aspirin brother Sam had said to her several times privately that if his brer Pink wouldn't have so many notions and would let him alone in his management, they would all do better.. As far as our knowledge goes there is no psychic apparatus possessing only the primary process, and in so far it is a theoretic fiction; but so much is based on fact that the primary processes are present in the apparatus from the beginning, while the secondary processes develop gradually in the course of life, inhibiting and covering the primary ones, and gaining complete mastery over them perhaps only at the height vioxx of life.. Another time I was sitting in a carriage, and on my lap an object cipro in shape like a top-hat, which, however, was made of transparent glass...
ReplyDeleteAs far as direct education cuts, there was a language or two removed, the GATE/E program and spanish for the younger students.
ReplyDeleteNow I was told that there is no more 1:1 instruction for special education kids - now it is 1:5. That is a confusing point to me since the district can request reimbursement for direct therapies.
Orthomom: You wrote "Apparently, some people seem to think that it's appropriate to use any tactics whatsoever to get out the vote - and evidently, promoting hysteria is the tactic du jour."
ReplyDeleteI agree. Larry Gordon will be held responsible if this is indeed NOT TRUE or circulated to the public.
This is a very sorry day for us in this United States when something as dangerous as his article is in fact true. Time will bear this out.
"I agree. Larry Gordon will be held responsible if this is indeed NOT TRUE or circulated to the public.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very sorry day for us in this United States when something as dangerous as his article is in fact true. Time will bear this out."
Uh, hello? I've been told by a reputable source that Larry Gordon has proof of this. And you think that if the flyer or ad doesn't run then it's proof that this never existed? Do you think they would be stupid enough to run this now?
10:15 PM: I am telling you this:
ReplyDeleteWhat Larry Gordon wrote in his article is enough to cause mass hysteria on all sides - parents worried about their childrens' safety and who will go to new lows for a school board election.
Enough that Larry Gordon wrote something that will end up not circulating shows to all parents that the "Kosher Nostra" is in charge in the Five Towns. Creating lies and hysteria. Whether it is within small or larger circles, it is dangerous and that type of negative reporting is nothing short of inflammatory and baseless.
If he has that information, uncovers all facts and publishes the actual picture, we will go on from there. But until then, it is very poor journalism. Gordon's entire article was cloaked in such vagueness to begin with.
ALPS is on the ropes,,,,and about to go down for the count....1, 2.....
ReplyDeleteAnyone who doesn't live under a rock knows by now that the yearbook printer (which I will not name) is located in Inwood and that the yearbook pages "fell into the hands" of the leader of ALPS (who I will not name) who coincidentally happens to be in the printing business and has ties to the Inwood printer. The ad in question (and the girls' contact info) was shared at an ALPS meeting and the ad was prepared to be run in the Nassau Herald.
ReplyDeleteAlex - I enjoy your post's but how does prozac relate to this discussion ? Please clarify,
ReplyDeleteHey, you can't say Larry Gordon isn't fair. Here are some excerpts from some other "editorial opinions" that he has selected to print in his paper, in the letters section. I guess he's not too happy with the state of things in the yeshiva world, either, or he wouldn't have printed those letters. It doesn't appear that he has a soft spot in his heart for educational institutions.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.5tjt.com/news/read.asp?Id=1037
There is a big problem brewing within the yeshiva world and it's time for the yeshivos and parents to take notice of it (and hopefully take action).
What takes place during recess? Do they include all the boys in the game, or are many kids insensitively left out? What takes place on the school bus on the way to yeshiva, or after a day of learning in yeshiva?
Are they behaving like good frum boys are supposed to behave, or are they making a chillul Hashem by screaming out of the bus window, or worse yet, throwing things out of the bus window while proudly wearing their yarmulkes?
We should all easily be able to pick out the frum boys in the crowd by how they act and speak, and not just by the yarmulke on their heads.
If you're a yeshiva rebbi or involved in running a yeshiva in any way, please pay closer attention to this.
Parents, please try to learn firsthand what may be going on during the bus ride or during the yeshiva day
Signed,
Another Concerned Parent
Recent stories in your paper and others (local and national) have brought to light issues the children of our community are facing today.
Just recently we read and heard of three local frum youths who were caught and arrested by the police driving in a car they had stolen from a local shul. These youths are also linked to several home burglaries and other offenses.
The media is all but screaming of issues in our schools
When school principals and their administration turn a blind eye to these problems, they are giving tacit permission for the abuse to continue.
How many youths are we losing? Kids who aren't just falling off the derech, but are outright walking away from it because of the blatant dual standards they see? Our children are clearly seeing a case of do as I say and not as I do.
The bully, it seems, has more right to privacy and protection than do his victims. The victim can be moved out of the class, away from his friends, and his beloved rebbi, but not the bully. The victim can change schools if he must, but the bully will be allowed to attend school unencumbered by the code of conduct each student and parent was required to sign at the beginning of the school year.
We need to protect our children and hold accountable unresponsive administrators who would rather pretend there is no problem than to face it head on.
When our children think back to their years in school, those memories should be pleasant and bring smiles of happiness, not the shudders of memories they would rather forget.
Respectfully,
A Concerned Grandparent
.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ...
ReplyDeleteWhat's very interesting (and suspicious) is that Larry Gordon wrote this in the "op-ed" column, rather than as a news story.
ReplyDeleteAs far as everyone is concerned, it should be treated as Lashon Hora against everyone in the community. It doesn't make either side look very good.
Agreed, it would be nice if local press would do more to calm the situation then stir it. It doesn't matter if this item is true or not, it's the need for Mr. Gordon to ensure tempers flare, and nothing gets accomplished, what's next a video of his outrage?
ReplyDelete... easily one of the most mindless comments I've every seen on this blog.
ReplyDeleteAll of Larry's articles are framed and written the same way. All of the "facts" in the article have been corroborated by ALPS activists on their "unbiased" blog. Of course, their odd spin is that it's the all the fault of the girls and their parents, because they must have given the yearbook to ALPS.
And you obviously know nothing about the halachot (laws) of lashon hora.
It doesn't make either side look very good.
Um, what? You've really gotta be kidding with this one.
10:39 AM: Now you are perpetuating untruths.
ReplyDeleteNone of the "facts" in the op-ed article has been corroborated by ANY ALPS activists on any blog. The blog you are talking about is questioning the same thing and would LOVE to see exactly what Larry Gordon was talking about. So don't perpetuate rumors.
I won't quibble about Lashon Hora at this point. But I will tell you that there are so many falsehoods regarding a picture that was orginially taken by Yeshiva girls for their own use for their own yearbook - and was allegedly doctored to show disgrace?
Worry about your children doing the right thing, worry about the community as a whole doing the right thing for everyone and worry about internal factors within the Jewish community that continues to rip Jew vs. Jew apart. THIS IS TOTALLY DISGUSTING.
Let's get to the bottom of these allegations and see for our own eyes and form an educated opinion about this.
anonymous 3:31, the only sister school the five town's shares with brooklyn is shulamith, and no this was not a shulamith yrbk, stop trying to make this into something more than it it.. a silly joke in some brooklyn bais yackovs yearbook.
ReplyDeletea picture that was orginially taken by Yeshiva girls for their own use for their own yearbook - and was allegedly doctored to show disgrace?
ReplyDeleteSo are we saying now that the girls in brooklyn have "disgraced" the middle school building?
I surely wouldn't say that or take it as that either. I'm sure the girls from Brooklyn are absolutely innocent in all of this.
ReplyDeleteIt's when people take something innocent and decide to falsely twist and label things - to pervert things - where things go wrong. Just like issues with our school district, and just like your line of questioning. You should be ashamed of yourself.
The only ones who should be ashamed of themselves are the ALPS people who dreamed this up and the printer who collaborated with them (and broke the law)
ReplyDeleteI'll say this. Whoever is in power should be the magnanimous ones to reach out to the other side. I have yet to see either side do this; it's more like an unproductive warlike atmosphere.
ReplyDeleteWell, it is yet to be determined if this photo thing is true - as none of us has seen it. We're reading an editorial article (smartly done - it gives him more creative latitude) written by one person only with extremely vague specifics. It will be looked into further.
ReplyDeleteNOBODY from ALPS is running the other "blog site" that 2:48 PM is referring to. If it were so, it would have a much sharper tone (that I wouldn't approve of either).
Judge for yourselves if it is being written as an "unproductive war-like atmosphere" by taking a look.
It isn't the other blog that is spewing false information - it is the commenters on this blog. And it should stop. You are telling people lies.
http://www.savesd15.blogspot.com/
If you have something productive to add, or can provide some answers to questions that have been posted, so that we can work together so that all sides are involved in a dialogue rather than spewing out lies.
CORRECTION:
ReplyDeleteNot all the bloggers. Just a few, but enough that others will believe in untruths.
Well, I got a flyer today.
ReplyDeleteIt has a picture of the middle school. Nothing else in the picture. No people or writing in the picture.
It is for a fundraiser.
If THIS is the basis of all the craziness going on, those involved in perpetrating lies should be ashamed of themselves.
I am the most open and honest person, I believe, being both an Observant Jew and a parent.
There is no way they could have substituted this for the alleged flyer Larry Gordon was talking about.
Shame, shame.
Of course they didn't. this wasn't the flyer. you are really shifting into the spin cycle. consider:
ReplyDelete1. larry gordon as well as others have clear notes from the planning of this ad and have produced them to someone close to me. the proposed ad is exactly as larry gordon described.
2. the innocent high school girls from the yearbook are said to be horrified and embarassed about the situation. they can;t believe they came thisclose to having their picture plastered all over the neighborhood as a cheap political ploy. their parents are livid. at least one is considering suing the printer for breach of trust.
3. local authorities have been informed and have promised and assured those involved (some of the girls live in the district) to get to the bottom of this. they were particularly concerned about the use of these girls picture without permission, and the allegations that a printing company made a copy from a job they were doing and handed it over to concerned parties.
6:16 PM: No spin intended.
ReplyDeleteI do hope that someone does get to the bottom of this. I don't think there is any parent in this community that is NOT CONCERNED about their childs' welfare and safety.
My personal investigation has not stopped. I need to know personally who is doing this, why and what their personal agenda is. It is more than a school board election and it is more than a budget to me, as we are all being used and abused here.
"I am the most open and honest person, I believe, being both an Observant Jew and a parent."
ReplyDeleteI believe you. (sincerely) However, but your criteria isn't quite enough considering that we are all anonymous to each other. Being a religious parent doesnt' mean that your necessarily honest.
I just left a meeting where I was shown a copy of the ad draft. There was also a list of the girls' names and addresses attached (clearly photocopied from a yearbook), and a page of handwritten notes in the name of an alps activist. Sick.
ReplyDeletei would just like to clarify one point that i heard over and over. why would a brooklyn girls school have the picture of the lawrence middle school. well, since i know the school and the girls involved in this issue, most of the girls that attended this brooklyn school were/are from the five towns area. as to why they didn't pick a nicer long island school? same reason, they live in lawrence, near the lawrence middle school, had super sunday in the lawrence middle school and it's a pretty school near where they live.
ReplyDeletealso keep in mind - this wasn't a malicious picture to rile up the community - this yearbook is from 2003/2004 school year. not this year.
If these ALPS clowns had any brains, they would just fess up to their mistake and apologize. (But of course that's not going to happen - they think they'll get votes by trying to spin the story)
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of people blogging that don't belong to this ALPS organization - and still are public school parents.
ReplyDeleteMany have stayed clear of ALPS because of something that happened a few years ago.
Then it's truly sad that ALPS is the defacto campaign organization behind the "public school canididates" and is disseminating the messages of the "public school candidates".
ReplyDeleteThe public school candidates and ALPS are inseparable, and it's by their own choice.
ReplyDeleteWell, PIP Printing is in the clear. I spoke to the two owners at length. They have no files for photos, as they return CD's after they are used. They have never done work for a Brooklyn yeshiva or anything that relates to yeshiva girls standing in front of Lawrence Middle School.
ReplyDeleteMark and Shelly have not done ANY printing for ALPS or any flyers related to any election or even the upcoming fundraiser.
I'm waiting to hear back from the Nassau Herald.
It is terrible that someone is making up rumors and spreading good names through the mud.
How do you know that someone is doing this and BLAMING the other side for this information in order to influence the private school parents to become hysterical???
This is such a shame. I am truly heartsick that someone can play soooooo dirty like that.
The way that Larry Gordon wrote his op-ed piece was cloaked in nothing but vagueness and mystery. It was definitely bad journalism, but it sells papers, so it is not surprising.
Well, PIP Printing is in the clear. I spoke to the two owners at length. They have no files for photos, as they return CD's after they are used. They have never done work for a Brooklyn yeshiva or anything that relates to yeshiva girls standing in front of Lawrence Middle School. Mark and Shelly have not done ANY printing for ALPS or any flyers related to any election or even the upcoming fundraiser.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone knows who Shelly or Mark are but they're going to have a hard time denying that PIP did this yearbook. Whether or not they were the ones who released the pages is a different story.
Shelly and Mark said that if they did a yearbook, no copy is ever kept in their shop. If 100 books are ordered, 100 go out. If pictures are put on CD's, the CD is returned. They do not keep photographs on file.
ReplyDeleteThis will go further into investigation. However, smearing someone is such a defilement. This sounds like GG tactics to me.
Of course, it must have been one of the high school girls who gave it to Bruce Scher.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing to do with Bruce Sher, I never saw him, nor would I care to, to be quite honest with you.
ReplyDeleteIf this is a yeshiva book, don't you think a that POSSIBLY???????? it was planted to make the other side look bad??????
This is what I don't understand about people. For a MINUTE, you can't think that there may be a rebel rouser in the private parent community???? Certainly each person can only vouch for themselves and what you or I have witnessed others do.
I smelled a rat, and I STILL smell a rat.
Shame Shame Shame on you Larry Gordon.
ReplyDeleteYou keep stirring the pot and divide the community.
Chutzpa!!!
"It's unfair to the children of this district to allow those who are not focused on vital educational issues to distort the issues and distract all of us from the important work that needs to be done".
.
5:32 PM - Well, I don't blame Larry Gordon for the whole thing either - just the lousy way he reported this.
ReplyDeleteBut your last paragraph is right on - this stuff has held us back from trying to deal with the real issues.
Everyone knows that printers all keep electronic or hard files on the jobs that are ordered. (It helps them fill re-orders.)
ReplyDeleteWhether or not the PIP owners may have actually passed it on or have any knowledge of how the information got to ALPS hands, has very little bearing on the issue. The issue is that ALPS obtained the yearbook pages illicitly and attempted to exploit and misrepresent the yearbook to win a few votes.
Why would you name these people on a blog anyway? Do you think they want to see their names mixed into this?
All I know is that everyone is blaming PIP for sending this photo to ALPS.
ReplyDeleteKeep PIP clear of this.
Someone else said that the Nassau Herald was given a copy of this alleged photo. The CEO is looking into that for me.
Meanwhile, people are scaring the children and causing hysteria. This is NOT necessary.
Larry Gordon should have called the police when he received that stuff - if anything - just to make a report.
Don't worry, the police have been contacted, and they have all the information. I completely commend Larry Gordon for publicizing this information. We rely on investigative reporters to make public issues of public safety. Had he not published we could have been looking at these girls photos in flyers all over the place.
ReplyDeleteTime to stop spinning. You might get dizzy anf throw up.
A mother of one of the girls confirmed that PIP did the yearbook printing for the group of girls in question. This has been handed over to the authorities, who are taking the safety of these poor girls very seriously.
ReplyDeleteApparently this was actually handed over to a private school representative by a public school activist who thought things had really gone to far. They contacted the authorities, and someone passed it along to larry gordon ro further get word out.
This is very real and very serious.
This is rich. Larry gordon getting blamed for publicizing a threat to district childrens safety. Maybe we should go back bashing the journalists and reporters who cover clergy abuse of children. After all, why stir things up? We know if we don't publicize a problem, it always goes away. Right?
ReplyDeleteOh, I agree 100% that this is serious.
ReplyDeleteGlad to hear the REAL authorities (not the VAAD) is on the case.
Meanwhile, I'll keep digging.
Funny, the authorities didn't contact PIP yet. Only one lady (who claimed to be a mother of one of the girls) called today and asked a few questions, for which they answered, and they had NO IDEA they were supposedly mixed up in something like this.
Sometimes purging is purifying.
Isn't there a blog on here somewhere where the names of clergy who have abused children?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThis is rich. Larry Gordon getting blamed for publicizing a threat to district children's safety. Maybe we should go back bashing the journalists and reporters who cover clergy abuse of children.
That's a good one.
Larry Gordon simply wrote one of his typical political editorials, which of course is his right as the publisher, using this mystery ad as an excuse to promote his agenda. I just reread the editorial, and no where in it does he express any concern at all about the fact that personal information on these girls that was supposedly given out.
Paragraph after paragraph of the same old Larry, with not a mention of the release of this information, after stating that it was given out with the photos.
Which is ironic, since THAT is really the only thing I have a problem with here. Who cares about the silly ads? First of all, if the photo is in a yearbook, I hardly consider it private. You can buy a yearbook from almost anywhere on e-bay. Like someone above said, there's no law against taking pictures of most buildings. The premise of the ad is strong and meant to shake people off their butts to go and vote. I think it's fair to say that certainly many a private school would love a building like that. Didn't HALB bid on #1 school? They just couldn't afford it. Isn't HAFTR in #3 school?
Hey, they could just as easily take their own photo of some yeshiva kids standing by the middle school. There's no law against taking pictures of people walking down the street either. Or they could use actors.
The part where they link the photo to a secret plan...
"So what's its picture doing in a Brooklyn yeshiva's yearbook?? Is there a long-range plan?"
...is a little stupid. The photo I'm sure was just a joke. After all, if the plan was secret, it wouldn't be in a yearbook :-)
But lets be real. Certainly many private schools would love a building in Lawrence, if they could afford it, and if it was for sale. And the heads of these schools would certainly be within their rights to lobby the board and exert political pressure when possible to promote their position.
So what?
Where's Larry's outrage that the personal information of these girls was given out? That's the only news story here. But of course this wasn't news but a political editorial. His lack of concern here about the safety of these kids is what's "shocking." I sure hope he personally called every one of those girls and let them know what happened, since they wouldn't know from his paper.
read the article again
ReplyDeleteOkay, I did. Here's the only reference to the personal info:
ReplyDelete"Whoever provided the ALPS campaigners with the information from the yearbook also provided them with a list of graduates of that class, including their home addresses, e-mail addresses, and phone numbers."
After that, no comment.
Just 14 paragraphs of political commentary.
So, are we criticizing Larry Gordon for bringing this issue to light without stressing the safety concerns?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure any parent who read this paragraph got the message, without being needlessly alarmed.
Anonymous with the random capitilization syndrome: Please stop already. You have no credibility. Your 5:05 post let everybody know that "Pip is in the clear" because the store's owners, with whom you apparently have a close relationship, specifically told you that they have never printed a yearbook for a girl's yeshiva in Brooklyn. As soon as that assertion was challenged, you conceded that they probably did print the yearbook, but came up with an excuse explaining it away. Please! I don't know what role, if any, PIP Printing played in this, nor did I know (nor care to know) the names of PIP's owners until you put them out here for all to read along with either a mishcharacterization of what they said, or or a falsehood that they had told you (re: not printing the yearbook). Either way, you are doing them no favors. I don't question your motives, it just seems that you need to relaz and calm down a bit before posting. And please stop with randomly capitilizing words -- aside from being annoying, it is considered to be rude (shouting) in the blogosphere.
ReplyDeleteWho cares about the silly ads? First of all, if the photo is in a yearbook, I hardly consider it private. You can buy a yearbook from almost anywhere on e-bay.
ReplyDeleteGoyguy, although I ordinarily find your opinions reasonable, you're way way off here. We are talking about pictures of high school girls. Using their image without their consent is plain wrong. Although it is publicly available, no high school girls has an expectation that their picture will appear in an ad in a newspaper or plastered all over Central Avenue. It is also very likely appropriation of likeness and defamation to the extent the ad falsely suggests that these girls have some plan to facilitate a purchase of the building. Copyright infringement as well.
Hey, they could just as easily take their own photo of some yeshiva kids standing by the middle school.
Well they probably couldn't get the kids to pose in front of the school without tricking them regarding the purpose of the photo.
There's no law against taking pictures of people walking down the street either.
Maybe not, but there is law about appropriation of likeness. It's not so simple.
Or they could use actors.
That's exactly the point. The right way to do this is to hire actors, which of course costs money. Instead, ALPS rifled through old yearbooks of High School girls. How can you defend that?
the rabbis who were accused of sexual abuse were Kolko and Tendlar..not sure about first names.. google them...there are hundreds of articles....
ReplyDeleteon another note...i find it interesting that no matter what the blog subject is about, a reference to the treatment of GG by the Vaad is always brought up...and, i am sure it is not by a former owner since i know for a fact that lawsuits are in the works against the vaad.. it just seems that the vaad never elaborated on their negative portrayal of the former owners to the satisfaction of my fellow five towners. Slander aside and forced sale aside, i get the feeling our trust has been compromised by the vaad and they cannot seem to get past their somewhat shady allegations.. I cant wait to read more about the lawsuits..!!!
Oh, I love how ALPS has old yearbooks from yeshivas sitting on their desks waiting to use them against the private school parents.
ReplyDeleteGive me a break.
Worry about the Kosher Nostra taking over and bullying everyone around and let the authorities conduct their investigation.
i love the word coined by an earlier blogger.....the KOSHER NOSTRA.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...1:42 AM
ReplyDelete"So, are we criticizing Larry Gordon for bringing this issue to light without stressing the safety concerns?
I'm pretty sure any parent who read this paragraph got the message, without being needlessly alarmed."
I think that if it was my daughter, I would be alarmed, but not needlessly. I also have to say that I doubt all of the parents or young women involved make sure never to miss reading every word in the 5TJT. From what I gather from what others have posted, half of them live in Brooklyn, and they graduated a few years ago. People move, go to college etc. But some freak can still reach them by e-mail or cell phone anywhere in the world.
Leib said...
"Goyguy, although I ordinarily find your opinions reasonable, you're way way off here. We are talking about pictures of high school girls. Using their image without their consent is plain wrong. Although it is publicly available, no high school girls has an expectation that their picture will appear in an ad in a newspaper or plastered all over Central Avenue."
Let me be clear. This ad, if real, is idiotic and irresponsible. Not because of the position it takes, (well, maybe that too) but because of what you stated. Using this photo is just plain wrong. On so many levels. For that matter, even if one says that it's not illegal, but just rude, it is still a huge political mistake. Right up there with the OM lawsuit. But worse.
"It is also very likely appropriation of likeness and defamation to the extent the ad falsely suggests that these girls have some plan to facilitate a purchase of the building. Copyright infringement as well."
The secret plan part is pretty funny, actually. High school girls plotting a 50 million dollar real estate swindle.
The ad should just show the picture and say:
'There are people in our community who would like to buy the crown jewel of our school system. Are you sure the board of ed won't let this happen? Support OUR candidates, they won't sell you're kids future...'
Now you have a simple, sleazy, dirty political ad. Impossible to disprove, and no copyright issues.
I'm waiting for comments on the issue of possible 'buying' of votes in a democratic fashion in these upcoming elections of yours over here in Israel.
ReplyDeleteLeib wrote: "For that matter, even if one says that it's not illegal, but just rude, it is still a huge political mistake. Right up there with the OM lawsuit. But worse."
ReplyDeleteYou cannot compare the two. The merits of OM's blogs and bloggers are here for all to see and judge. The picture and ad in question is not open for all to see and judge for themselves, so don't even think about equating the two.
Sounds like a Larry Gordon tactic to link the two.
No one's concerned with the Israel voter bounty hunt. Go figure.
ReplyDeleteYME Dad,
ReplyDeleteThank you for that interesting article. That is a lot of money. As a parent I want to know at what cost is this school board garbage worth. $3500.00 for what? The writing is on the wall folks, and the future is scary, I am afraid this district will not get it till it is too late. One of our children will suffer for their parents mistakes. Notice I say OUR, because there is no greater love than a mothers love of their child.
What's the big deal? They aren't offering money to voters, just to canvassers. Canvassers get paid in every campaign. In fact, it's a great idea. As I said over at the other site, we should be getting people to collect absentee ballots at UPenn, up in Boston, etc.
ReplyDeleteDon't get mad, get even.
Don't get mad get even.
ReplyDeleteIt is against the law. You are paying commision to somone for votes. You just can't do this. Anyway, it falls into the scary area. Imagine your college aged daughter getting a knock on the door with some stranger begging for a vote. I am shocked that a community would put their children at risk like this. You have no idea about a person, especially a young one. Please don't find my child at U of Penn, I really don't think her life is worth it. At all costs for some I guess.
You are paying commision to somone for votes. You just can't do this.
ReplyDeleteNo. You are not paying an election worker to collect ballots. I assume they are looking for children from the area who are studying abroad.
I meant to say: You ARE paying an election worker to collect ballots.
ReplyDeleteI understand, but commision? While we are on the subject of boards, and money, and test scores, below please find two links I think the nonpublic community will find interesting. I know if I paid as much in tuition as some I would be very upset
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wakingbear.com/archives/long-islands-private-school-4th-grade-reading-scores-4.html
http://www.locustvalley.com/private%20school%20grades.html
Private schools are no longer required to post scores, after looking at these I see why.
I think it is time to focus on the children don't YOU?
The issue is an election for BOE seats. Let the candidates discuss the issues and let the community vote for the canidates they feel will do the best job for all the children.
ReplyDeleteIf ALPS wants to support a candidate(s) so be it.
The LTA should not be involved as they have a personal interest in the outcome-increased salaries. Unfortunately, ALPS & the LTA became connected at the hip during Mr. Clements reign. Now that he's gone perhaps clearer heads will pevail in the LTA.
If the non-public community wants to hire students to sign folks up to vote, so be it. The people still need to pull the lever on election day for it to count. No differnt than the PTA signing up eligilbe 18 year olds at LHS.
And if you think money can't buy an election, just ask Hilary or George.
It's the democratic way.
The issue is an election for BOE seats. Let the candidates discuss the issues and let the community vote for the canidates they feel will do the best job for all the children.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but considering you are answering a post about test scores for private long island schools that were not good, I find in interesting you do not address the scores. We are interested in all the children, and educational programs should be there to help the large percentage of children that are not meeting state standards in all our schools.
anon 1:28
ReplyDeleteAnd if you think money can't buy an election....
It was reported in one of the local papers(I think Nassau Herald) that the Alps fund raiser was hoping to raise over $30,000.
Surely a few adds in the Nassau Herald is not that costly, what do you think it will be used for?
Still no comments on the private school reading scores. Interesting,,,
ReplyDeleteStill no comments on the private school reading
ReplyDeleteAre those scores valid? They are terrible. They are worse than the public schools. No wonder why they don't post the scores anymore.
Regarding private school scores: I once met with an administrator at one of the local day schools for the purpose of enrolling my children. I asked to see the 4th and 8th grade scores and was denied. When I pressed, I was assured that they were "as good or better than" the local public schools. Nuff said. It's obvious why they don't publish the scores.
ReplyDeleteTo add to that, I have several friends whose children attend that school and secular education is most definitely not the first priority there. A lot of people whose kids attend that yeshiva feel the education is sub-par but they have no place else to go since they want (need)the Judaic education. It's shameful what some private schools get away with.
It's shameful what some private schools get away with.
ReplyDeleteI have friends whose children attend Halb and I was told the work they get is advanced and far harder than the public schools. I read the scores and they were lower than the public schools, what gives?
Let me spell this out to those of you who think that the private school scores are in any way relevant to this discussion. The private schools are not accountable to you. They are accountable to their parent body. However, the public schools are accountable to every taxpayer in the district. That's one of the perks of being a private school parent as well as a taxpayer. Paying twice sucks, but at least we get representation to show for it.
ReplyDeleteLet me spell this out to those of you who think that the private school scores are in any way relevant to this discussion.
ReplyDeleteYou are obviously new here. Raising irrelevant points is ALPS/LTA's specialty.
You are obviously new here. Raising irrelevant points is ALPS/LTA's specialty.
ReplyDeleteI am not a member of ALPS or LTA and I don't think the communities children are irrelevant. If children are not performing on grade level then they are entitled under NCLB to receive remedial services by the district. I thought the point was equal treatment for all. This is about the children right??
Interesting how a post about a potentially nasty campaign, based upon a story about a potentially nasty flier no one has seen, morphs into a discussion of test scores with barely a titter about the OU-sponsored bounty-hunt for absentee ballots in Israel.
ReplyDeletewith barely a titter about the OU-sponsored bounty-hunt for absentee ballots in Israel.
ReplyDeleteWell, let's dissect. OU-sponsored? The OU ran an ad in their publication, obviously placed there by someone else. I am quite sure that the OU didn't offer to sponsor a Lawrence election campaign out of their budget.
Also, bounty hunt? How about "canvass" for a more appropriate term. This happens all the time. There is nothing illegal or untoward about paying someone to coordinate absentee ballots.
Stop trying to change the subject. This doesn't even come close to publishing the photo and names and phone numbers of innocent high school girls.
ALPS has been doing the same canvassing for local high school alumni. Of course they've been using the district's lists to help facilitate their efforts.
ReplyDeleteAre they paying people to do it? It's hard to say, but where else would they be spending the $30k that they set out to raise for the campaign?
Anonymous said... 7:37 AM
ReplyDelete"Leib wrote: "For that matter, even if one says that it's not illegal, but just rude, it is still a huge political mistake. Right up there with the OM lawsuit. But worse."
You cannot compare the two. The merits of OM's blogs and bloggers are here for all to see and judge. The picture and ad in question is not open for all to see and judge for themselves, so don't even think about equating the two.
Sounds like a Larry Gordon tactic to link the two."
Actually that was my statement, Not Leib.
I said that suing OM, and the ad and photo, "if real", are both political mistakes, with the ad being worse.
The merits of the blog are irrelevant. It's the attempt to silence it that's the mistake. The ad, if it exists, or ever existed, would be an even greater mistake. They are equal in that they are both serious errors in political judgment which are not likely to help the candidates.
It appears that the test results are not out of line with the local public schools. Considering the majority of the schools listed are Catholic, private prep schools and not just Yeshiva's, what's your point?
ReplyDeleteThe point is to try to shift the focus from the district's failures to anything else under the sun
ReplyDelete10:20 AM: The point is that Lawrence is under the microscope and trying its best, when opponents to public school education can't even get their act together in the private school sector.
ReplyDeleteRead the ORTHOMOM blogs and you will see there are many problems in the private school sector, enough to keep the private school community busy between that and the Kosher Nostra.
I guess the point is that private school parents should just (pay their taxes and) mind their own business.
ReplyDeleteThe point is to try to shift the focus from the district's failures to anything else under the sun
ReplyDeleteNo, the point is these children are eligble for remedial extra help by law under NCLB, yet, the private schools and parents take it as a "pot shot" when people ask about private schools test scores. Many of these children don't qualify for special education, they fall through the cracks,and are deemed attention problems, when they are just in need of remediation. But with a communtiy the TOTAL community so fixated on busing, buildings, yours, mine, we seem to deviate from the actual purpose of the school board. To educate the children of the district. It is easy folks. The laws are the laws, we can't change them, but we can be smart to get our children what they need. As a member of the private community I can tell you 10 children who were referred for educational testing to the cse, when they did not qualify they were furious, but really what the child needs is tutoring. Which you can get through the district. Let us get smart folks.
Does it matter that a public or non-public student who lives in the district is not meeting the standards? Don't they all need our support and attention to reach the levels set by the state. Children residing in the district are children. Provide the services needed to all of them.
ReplyDeleteThis should not be about who attends a public school or private school, it should be what we the adults in the community can do to ensure the best education for our children.
Get real. The scores in the local yeshivas are all by and large much better than in the public schools. Blame on the water, the minorities, the child rearing, the motivation or lack thereof or whatever you want, but that will not change the fact that children in public schools are failing at a much higher rate.
ReplyDeleteTo top it off, there are services that private school children should be provided with like public school children (such as the GATE program), but the district has conveniently ignored the law on this.
Of course everyone cares about how all the children are doing, but any attempt here to focus on failures of the children in the local yeshivas is just a ruse to draw attention away from district failures and shortcomings. The community's yeshivas are teaching kids twice as well as the public schools for about half the money. Get real!
twice as well for half the money...get real!
ReplyDeletethis comment is really out of place. I don't know anyone who is paying the "half the money", unless you kids attend the Nursery School.
I now know the whole story about this supposed flyer.
ReplyDeleteLarry Gordon will have to divuluge the source of this so called flyer to the authorities for further investigation.
It is not on the public school side. That's all I can say.
Very dirty politics are alive and well, and isn't on the side of the public school advocates.
And many lies have appeared in this blog.
Shame, shame.
To top it off, there are services that private school children should be provided with like public school children (such as the GATE program), but the district has conveniently ignored the law on this.
ReplyDeleteNo they haven't, Halb offers GATE, and if you feel your child is entitled to gate then ask for it. I sit through many meetings and never once have I heard my child is gifted and needs gate, and in three cases the iq was there. The program originally spent 256,000 in 2005/2006 for all the children in the district 2006/7 it was lowered to 70,000 for 2007/8 it once again was dropped 52% to 37,000. My question to the above writer is did you ask the school district for gate? Were you given a test? If you showed proof of giftedness were you still turned away? If so then you need to file a federal complaint. To the community as a whole, the WHOLE community, while our board and special interest groups fights about busing and buildings and other issues that relate nothing to the education of our children we all buy into the crap instead of working together and saying to the board fix it. Special education complaints, who do you think makes the decisions? Yes, the CSE hears the meeting, but who do you think dictates the ulitmate decision? Come now, when pupil personnel say no more one on one occupational therapy, who do you think approve it? While everyone complains about it, not one person has stood up at a meeting saying what their complaint is and there complaints on both sides. Everyone blames the public schools, but not one person shows up at a board meeting to fight the board to insist they fix it, which they can do. As a community we need to fight for our children, and not political power. As long as we are divided the power hungry on both sides are doing their best to stir the pot and lie. They are winning and ALL are children are loosing. It was recommended to the board to spend the 6 million to update technology and then install the educational software like school biz, where every district child had access to this. Even private school children. This software has reading activities and the school district would be able to monitor progress, but not one person is fighting for it. It is up to the community to decide who is going to win, the adults or our children.
Get real. The scores in the local yeshivas are all by and large much better than in the public schools.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I hate to disagree, but the scores that are on the links do not show that on a whole only 64% of children scored a 3 or above. As a parent I am alarmed at these reading scores. I do not care where these children go to school. This is not a contest. Any service the private community should be getting and is not should be brought up at the board meetings. How can you blame the public school, Halb does have GATE. The board is there for your benefit. Perhaps if all of us fought for education instead of who has more power, we can actually educate our children.
The GATE program at Number Six School is limited to just a very few kids, in grades 3-5 only. So HALB is a step ahead of us. . . don't ask for parity with the public schools or you will get zip like we have!
ReplyDelete3:39 PM: You receive my upmost respect for your candor.
ReplyDeleteIt is about time that the needs of all the children are put ahead of everything else.
The bottom line is that there is plenty of room for improvements, so we have to work together to make it happen. The technology updates that were planned for both public schools and private schools will not occur because the budget as it is written is basically keeping things status quo - except for the pre-k busing. That's not fair to our children.
It is good to be honest - something that has been few and far between on these blogs when it comes to our schools, whether public or private.
Our children deserve better than fighting parents, fighting school boards, fighting school districts, and fighting communities. Let's put our heads together and get those reading numbers up.
I think Orthomom is involved with Young Israel of Cedarhurst. I posted a comment on this blog a few weeks ago and now I am getting email blasts from Young Israel of Cedarhurst. I have no affiliation with Young Israel of Cedarhurst, nor do I want any, and would have no reason to get their emails. I think that there is a clue here as to who Orthomom is or who she is working for! Look into it everyone!
ReplyDeleteI think Orthomom is involved with the IRS. I posted a comment on this blog a few weeks ago and now I am getting audited by the IRS. I think that there is a clue here as to who Orthomom is or who she is working for! Look into it everyone!
ReplyDeleteYou can make your jokes about my post above, but it has to be true, because why would I get email blasts from Young Israel of Cedarhurst?? After I posted a comment, they must have automaticaly gotten the "cookies" from my browser and put them on their email list. Make all the jokes you want. She is affiliated with Young Israel somehow.
ReplyDeletePlease be reminded that this Friday Night we will have our
ReplyDeleteFather - Son Friday Night Minyan
This Minyan is for all boys from the 3rd grade thru the 6th grade
at 7:00pm, in the Annette Adler and Family Teen & Young Adult Beit Medrash
Young Israel of Lawrence-Cedarhurst
Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum
President, David Kaszovitz
Executive Director, Marvin Schenker
8 Spruce Street
Cedarhurst, New York 11516
Phone: (516) 569-3324
www.yilc.org
HERE IS A COPY OF THE EMAIL I GOT FROM YOUNG ISRAEL OF CEDARHURST AFTER POSTING A COMMENT ON THE ORTHOMOM WEBSITE...WHY WOULD I BE GETTING THIS???? I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.
HERE IS ANOTHER EMAIL I GOT FROM THEM,
ReplyDeleteThe Sfas Emes Shiur will meet this evening at 9:25pm in the Adler Beit Medrash.
Young Israel of Lawrence-Cedarhurst
Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum
President, David Kaszovitz
Executive Director, Marvin Schenker
8 Spruce Street
Cedarhurst, New York 11516
Phone: (516) 569-3324
www.yilc.org
HERE IS ANOTHER EMAIL I GOT. WHY AM I GETTING THESE EMAILS????????? BECAUSE ORTHOMOMN IS SOMEHOW AFFILIATED WITH THEM
OK, OK, anon. Slow down and think... Other then leave a comment on the orthomom site, did you do any thing else prior to getting these emails?
ReplyDeleteFrom Ali Watara
ReplyDeleteHey- I left a comment for Orthomom too, but I'm getting emails from a Prince Caliphate in Burundi asking me to help him with an "investment". I think Orthomom is an African Prince -- or his wife!!
YOU GUYS CAN TRY TO MAKE JOKES ALL YOU WANT..BUT YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO HIDE THE TRUTH..THE TRUTH IS I AM GETTING EMAILS FROM YOUNG ISRAEL OF CEDARHURST AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE...I HAVE NO CONECTION WHATSOEVER TO YOUNG ISRAEL OF CEDARHURST AND THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A LINK AS I PROVED ABOVE...SO LETS ALL BE HONEST
ReplyDeleteORTHOMOM IS GETTING SMOKED OUT OF HIS/HER CAVE!!!!!
ReplyDeleteHey- I left a comment for Orthomom too, but I'm getting emails from a Prince Caliphate in Burundi asking me to help him with an "investment". I think Orthomom is an African Prince -- or his wife!!
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I find the "Young Israel" theory more convincing mainly because of the use allcaps. Makes him look more...sure of himself.
i left a post for orthomom and i'm getting ads for the enlargment of shall we say a certain body part. maybe orthomom is affiliated with a medical practice specializing in urology
ReplyDeleteWho care who she is affiliated with? Does it even matter?
ReplyDeletenope, but i was having fun with the thread.
ReplyDeleteEXPLAIN WHY SOMEONE WHO ISNT EVEN JEWISH AND HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH YOUNG ISRAEL OF CEDARHURST IS GETTING EMAIL BLASTS FROM THEM, RIGHT AFTER I POSTED A COMMENT ON THE ORTHOMOM WEBSITE?? SEEMS LIKE A LINKAGE TO ME, MAIS NON?
ReplyDeletewait till Feder tells the judge about this breakthrough
ReplyDeleteWhat does any of this jibberish have to do with educating our children?
ReplyDeleteHave you seen the full page ad in the Herald
ReplyDeletepaid for by David Sussman?
"Vote NO For PAM GREENBAUM"
Is this legal? Is this Slander?
Is it anti-semetic?
I think the Herald should get sued,and so should the Sussmans!
It's not signed by Sussman
ReplyDeleteJust wait ... Pam's dream team will probably try to pin this one on Orthomom too
ReplyDeletedumber than anon@7:02PM said...
ReplyDeleteI think Orthomom is involved with the IRS. I posted a comment on this blog a few weeks ago and now I am getting audited by the IRS. I think that there is a clue here as to who Orthomom is or who she is working for! Look into it everyone!
7:17 PM
you are hysterical!! if orthomom were IRS, she would have been auditing the Vaads books to actually see where the donations are really going!! since the vaad has no tax id and no obligation to the govt// just think what they do with the hundreds of thousands of $$$$ they receive from our shuls and the stores that display their tuedahs?? ANY REAL IRS AGENTS OUT THERE???
In fact, getting back to children the budget has money in it for prek for the entire public school. Probably makes us the first District in nassau to do this. At the same time there is 800.000 in for computers. Did someway say nothing. Then there is the proposition to extend preK busing to the private school children and the rest of the public school children who do not have it now. Sounds like Mansdorfs Bd is looking out for the whole community. Of course, the Bd has already been sued to take the referendum to do PreK busing off the ballot. Guess the mantra of the suer and anyone else(will anyone think that includes Alps and its candidates?) is everything for the public school children and state minimum for the rest. Why else sue to stop the provision to give something to the private school children but leave universal preK (absolutely not mandatory...a discretionary perk in every sense of the word) on the ballot. The double standard is obvious.
ReplyDeleteWho the heck is suing now????
ReplyDelete800.000 in for computers
ReplyDeleteThere is 265,000 for technology which is for public and private. Please tell the truth.
extend preK busing to the private school children
Please review budget, prek busing yes, no matrons, corner stops only, the private school community is not informed truthly. The board cut more programs, which by the way the private school children are entitled too. Yet why is the board not yelling about that. Free building usage? Yeah, that will eduate your kids. Also, children who are entitled to remediation under NCLB, are being pushed for special ed testing, which in most cases is not what the kids needs, can't blame the public schools, it must come from the yeshiva. People need to be educated to what children are entitled to and you need to tell our school board to ensure it gets done. We all need to fight for these kids.
Probably makes us the first District in nassau to do this.
ReplyDeleteSorry,
Long Beach, Elmont,Great Neck, Roslyn, Oceanside, I won't go on, and yes they extended it, 465,000 dollars is paid for by the state.
Why else sue to stop the provision to give something to the private school children but leave universal preK (absolutely not mandatory...a discretionary perk in every sense of the word)
ReplyDeleteI understand the logic to this statement, but first let me give you another view, the board said we would not be cutting programs, over 300,000 came off from educational programs, there is not one increase for ANY educational enahncements, and the pre-k busing is limited to the following, schools must have a kindergarten and must have five district residents attending, within 7.5 miles. The list has 9 yeshivas, and 2 private schools, no catholic schools, and no montessori schools. This is not fair. Add that most people don't know there are not matrons, and corner stops only. The truth needs to come out, our children deserve more than this. Next year with special ed laws changing many of our children will be serviced and tested by other districts. Knowing the system I can tell you most districts do not provide services on site. Has the board discussed this? Does anyone even them know this? The truth should be told, I agree with state minumim not being necessary, then you too should agree 26 children is too many in a class.
This is a line item from the 2007/2008 Budget, 800,000 for technology??
ReplyDelete($514,208)
Includes Technology ($265,000)
The pre-K transportation referendum allows for district bus to Brandeis, Ketana, HALB, Darchei, YSS, HAFTR, Torah Academy for Girls, and Shulamith. If you want to send your kid to any other pre-k program you're out of luck because apparently no other schools meet the 25 pre-k and kindergarten students, with 5 from Lawrence requirement. The bus will make corner stops only, and there will be no matrons. Call the transportation office and verify before you vote on this proposition.
ReplyDeleteSo I would have to walk down the block and allow my child onto and off of a bus that has no supervision while the bus driver is trying to do his/her job?
ReplyDeleteWhen my oldest was in kindergarten, there were bus matrons and they were picked up/dropped off in front of my house.
This transportation issue is very serious. I can't see waiting in the rain for my child to let off at the corner, getting wet, in the snow, etc.
The referendum wasn't well thought out.
let the truth be told. How many Districts in Nassau County have full, free preK? Let the truth be told, the 465 thousand we are getting now does not pay and never did for the services we provide for the 105 or so preK children we provide for now. They all get matrons thru a sleight of hand and the Bd is well aware of this convienient cost movement.Let the truth be known, until we go to the Princeton Plan the class size provision of the LTA contract was not well thought out but not one public school parent has complained since it will only cost taxpayers money. Proof you want, well if there are two classes of 23, and 22 in first grade at Number 5 you can not drop them to 20. Because the pool of children is so small in our elementary schools an extra teacher will drop class size to 15,14 and 14. Now if there were 8 classes of 23 one more teacher would make 9 classes with 20 and 21 in a class. Same for 2 classes of 26 which do not exist in our elementary schools any way. An extra teacher brings them down to 17 and 18, nice for a private school but not a reasonable 20 to 21 for an older 5th grade class. Have you heard word one from any of the critics?The class size provision was not well thought out but no one said a word because it was in the public school venue. Yet when it comes to preK busing we get law suits and demands for every last dollar. A suggestion; after the referendum passes if we need more or significant adjustments, next years Bd, whoever controls it and in good faith can put another referendum up. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water unless those against the referendumo have another agenda in mind. Meanwhile kudos to mansdorf and company for the first real substantive addition to the educational program in Lawrence (universal preK) in at least 20 years. Time to bring the community together.
ReplyDeleteYes or no to those who want an honest blog. I say preK is a completely disccretionary decision of the Bd. There is absolutely no legal mandate that this be done. NOt only Dr. Mansdorfs expansion to the entire public school population, but the first 100 is just not obligatory. Dont get your dander up, these are great programs and Dr. Mansdorf needs to be congratulated on his courage and foresight , but in the name of truth admit it, these are not mandatory programs like 1-12th grade. If we are going to have an honest discussion it is time to be honest.
ReplyDeleteI cannot believe people are going to put a three year old on the bus without a matron, and walk them to the corner. I want to save, but at what cost.
ReplyDeleteNo one is forced to use the system. I am sure the Board will use the same system it uses with the current preK bussing as it does with the new preK busing. I believe Mr. Fabizzio says it cost almost nothing to have matrons for the 110 public school children that are getting matrons at the present time.Is that really true.PreK parents will decide if they want to use the service that is provided to them. Answer to previous blogger: I do not know if preK is mandatory but since not one blogger with a possible public school blogger has said it is not mandatory I am supposing it must be mandatory. Am I right? Does Hewlett have free universal preK or do parents have to pay extra? Is that legal?
ReplyDeletepublic school children that are getting matrons at the present time.Is that really true
ReplyDeletePublic school children do have bus matrons. Pre-k and kindergarden are not "madatory" Hewlett does have a free pre-k along with many other schools. Dr. Fitzsimmons said it was too expensive to have matrons on all private pre-k buses. Nice, Only nine schools qualify, nothing like equality, and the cut 300,000 from programs in the budget. Oh well, were we born yesterday or what!!!
public school pre-k has matrons. private school will not.
ReplyDeleteWell, that's what happens when the board wants to push things through without looking at all the fine points.
ReplyDeleteIt could have been part of the referendum, and it is not.
Very sad. AND, we have one less chance to make our position clear since the last meeting was cancelled abruptly and with little warning.
The Gate/E program has been cut back severely. That is a wonderful program for all community children.
"
ReplyDeleteThe Gate/E program has been cut back severely. That is a wonderful program for all community children."
Why don't you elaborate on how the GATE program was ever made available to MY private school children.
Anonymous said... 8:14 AM
ReplyDelete"I do not know if preK is mandatory but since not one blogger with a possible public school blogger has said it is not mandatory I am supposing it must be mandatory. Am I right? Does Hewlett have free universal preK or do parents have to pay extra? Is that legal?"
From SD 14 website.
http://www.hewlett-woodmere.net/schools/franklin_center/programs.php
Pre-Kindergarten
Franklin offers one of the area's few district-supported open enrollment half-day Pre-K programs. Parents may also choose full-day Pre-K called Pre-K PLUS, a tuition-based program.
In addition, the New York State pre-K program for four-year-olds who meet specific criteria operates a half-day session. The district also sponsors PENT (Peninsula Educational Nursery for Threes), a half-day program for three-year-olds, jointly with the National Council of Jewish Women. In January, Franklin hosts an orientation meeting for parents of four-year-olds where they can talk with FECC administrators and receive a PTA-guided tour of the building. For further information on these programs please call the school at 374-8157.
Don't you people ever go to school bopard meetings and talk things out there?
ReplyDeleteP.S. Isn't it refrshing not to see an anonymous post here?
Your school, if a local child attends, is able to have a GATE/E program. Ask your administrators why the district was not contacted for this. Don't blame EVERYTHING on the school board or the public school. I know that HALB has a GATE/E program.
ReplyDeleteSince pre-K is not mandatory, they are allowed to charge, unless there are certain socio-economic issues whereas the family/child meets the criteria.
ReplyDeleteYMEDAD: Yes, it is refreshing that someone doesn't have to post anonymously. However, with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits out there, all eyes on on this blog and others don't want to be harrassed to the point of where ORTHOMOM has been draggd into court.
Our school board meetings have been very vocal to say the least. The school board cannot get along with each other while others on the board are in cohorts.
ReplyDeleteIt could be a lot different, but it isn't.
Pre-K is not mandatory yet. Many districts on Long Island Offer PRE_K
ReplyDeleteHewlett
Oceanside
Elmont
Long Beach
Roslyn
Pre-K busing should be open to all who attend a pre-k within 7.5 miles, and has the hours that fall within the guidlines. If we are going to be equal than let us really do it right. Bus Matrons should be on every Kindergarden/Pre-k bus even if it means putting one on a large school bus, for those who think it is not fair, Tough. There are many educational programs private students could receive, Gate, remediation, etc, but I have not heard one parent blog or speak at a board meeting about this. You can't blame the public schools. Special education is not for every child. Some just need remedial services, this is for your school to ask for. Instead many schools think Special Ed testing is the answer, and it is not. This community is very busy on creating equality. It would be nice to actually have equality for the kids and no their parents. When you spend hours on end talk about free building usage when the budget shows we receive 80,000 a year in building fees, it tells us that fiscal responsibility is not on the boards mind. I want to hear about EDUCATION folks, no brainer public, private, home school who cares. Members of the board, give us our bus matron,technology,gate, etc. If you have a surplus every year well than, you have the money to pay for it.
Don't you people ever go to school bopard meetings and talk things out there?
ReplyDeleteP.S. Isn't it refrshing not to see an anonymous post here
Yes, I attend board meetings where not one issue about all the children gets decided. I would love to see non public parents stand up and ask the board about bus matrons, gate, remediation, child find, and of course next years potential special education fiasco. Parents need to not boo and call each other names, if you cannot control yourself, stay home with a babysitter.
P.S - In the interest of using call signs...
Universal Pre-K was the work of last year's board, this years board (in a charge led by Dr. Sussman) tried to close it down in July/August but failed. Congratulate Dr. Mansdorf? Uh, no.
ReplyDeleteHello, no matrons with 3/4 year olds, come on people at what cost is fiscal responsibility, are they for real.
ReplyDeletewe all know who you are
ReplyDeleteO U Know we do
ORTHOMOMA,
ReplyDeleteOU...we know who you are!
to anon 8:58 AM:
ReplyDeletePRE-K has matrons now, and all (public and private)K is being picked up at the door. With the new proposition passing, there will be NO matrons on the public and private buses. There also will be NO house stops for anyone, public or private. Am I missing anything?
No, you have got it right. Private pre-k bus for eight eligible yeshivas, with no house stops and no matrons. All the kindergarteners will lose house stops, because they are not going to have pre-k at the corner and k stop at the door. This adds so many kids to some bus routes that house stops are impossible. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteNote that the other districts mentioned offer 1/2 day pre-K. Lawrence's program is full day pre-K. Utilizing 1/2 day pre_k allows the same teachers to teach both morning and afternnon programs. Additionall, Lawrence has classroom aides in all Pre-K programs to assist the teachers.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how Mr. Fabrizio can say ther's little cost for the matrons? Aren't they paid by the district and have some benefits, health, pension etc?
Can anyone tell me the true cost of the Pre-K busing proposed? The district I'm told gets $465,000 from the state for the pre-K program it currently runs. How much additional money is put in by the district for the program?
Educationally, Ms. Lineal always advocated for pre-K, stating you can pay now or pay much more later if you don't have pre-k. What do the Ms Karant, Dr, Fitzsimmons and elementary princiapls say about the edcucational value of Pre-K? Aren't they the experts?
our principals and teachers are not only experts but have research behind them:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.winningbeginningny.org/brochure/documents/belfield_execsummary.pdf
BTW: I still don't understand anon 8:40 PM explanation of bussing.
call and ask the transportation department which pre-k schools are eligible for free bus under the proposition, and where the bus will stop house or corner? Then ask if the district will continue its voluntary policy of picking up kindergartners at the door. Then you will understand, and from the source, not an anonymous blog comment. Please let us know what you find out.
ReplyDeleteYup. To the corners and no matrons. Call the transportation department.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't someone check with the other districts providing Pre-K transportation and see what they do as far as corner stops and matrons? Perhaps our transportation director could provide us with that information.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter at this point, because the referendum is written the way it is and there cannot be any changes at this point. However, during the school year, it should be brought up to the board.
ReplyDeleteYes, it needs to be corrected for the following year. The budget is written the way it is and since pre-k busing is not mandatory, other issues that are impeding the children's health and safety, i.e.: emergency phone service should be placed on the forefront.
Matrons and door-to-door pick-up has to be outlined in next year's budget and documented as such. With a 0.9% budget, there is little room for movement. There is a budget reserve for $6 million, but that is not used for routine issues such as this. It is a pillow and should not be spent down on routine matters.
This is EXACTLY what happens when people get together and don't think or talk out issues deeper than what it seems. You can't just have an idea and want to jump into the water with it without some thought going into it.
Mazel Tov OM
ReplyDeleteWhen and where is the Bris??
Mazel Tov OM
ReplyDeleteWhen and where is the Bris??
HUH??