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Thursday, June 15, 2006

A Post To Read

I am getting to this post recommendation a little later than I would have liked - but it remains a must-read. The always astute Sephardilady has some very eloquent criticisms of the shidduch-related expectations that have become de rigueur in the Yeshiva world. I think most readers will find it hard to disagree with her points. Give her a visit, read the post - and while you're at it, poke around her blog a bit. She's a very wise woman.


Blogger Orthonomics said...

I'm flattered, Orthomom. Thanks for the link. And Shabbat Shalom/Good Shabbos.

11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is only di rigueur in the section of the the Yeshivah world that values stting in Kollel for years and years,the rest of us are allowed to go out and earn a parnosa, than G-d!

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

btw - do you think this will be good for israel

Fatah Gunmen Go on Anti-Hamas Rampage

3:47 AM  
Blogger ADMITNOTHING said...


check it out !

9:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope i am not the only person disturbed by the letter to the editor. What truly scares me is the Entitlement attitude of many of the yeshiva and kollel bachurim in Lakewood, Eretz Yisrael and frankly everywhere. The underlying idea of learnign all day is obviously ideal, it isnt for everybody. If you can afford it, great. If family members can help pit, great. But to make it part and parcel of a shidduch is no different then boys who only date girls from wealthy families and with family businesses to take over, which by the way is Assur. Would i love to learn all day, of course i would, although i am not sure if i could do it. However i have a family and tuitions and mortgage and credit cards and i have to work. I know plenty of men who work for a living and learn for 1/2 a day or rotate learning for 2 years and working for 2 years. We need to move away from this "hand out" welfare mentality that is only breeding discontent among all parties and creating an underbelly of poverty in our community. Sorry for being longwinded but this article really got under my skin.

1:10 PM  
Blogger Looking Forward said...

i'm really shocked by what passes as entitlement in our communities too.

my perents when they where first married made their own clothing by hand, and i know that at least one point we stopped buying meat except for shabbos.

imean it's a perversion of everything torah desires from us! (what does perkei avos say, study with out work will in the end cease and lead to sin?)

1:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What truly scares me is the Entitlement attitude of many of the yeshiva and kollel bachurim in Lakewood, Eretz Yisrael and frankly everywhere. The underlying idea of learnign all day is obviously ideal, it isnt for everybody. If you can afford it, great. "

Entitlement doesn't start and end with the kollel and yeshiva bochurim. Let's not tar and feather here.

There are plenty of "working" individuals with an unhealthy sense of entitlement. I find myself catching myself in it sometimes. E.g. - I SHOULD have a house, I SHOULD have nice clothes for my children, etc etc.

There is a need for kollel and yeshiva in our communities. But it's not their fault when families refuse to give their sons limits. If you don't want to support your daughters, make a case with your son. Insist he get a college education, or at least get a paying job. My brother managed to attend an extremely frum yeshiva, and is currently working and in grad school.

Children listen to the message their parents send MORE than they listen to the messages of their school. If a parent is okay with the idea of kollel, and gives the child that choice, why wouldn't they choose it? It's reinforced in many frum circles as the righteous choice. They feel that they're doing the right thing, and that is always a seductive feeling.

Blame the parents. They're the ones encouraging their sons to find wealthy girls so that they don't have to support them. They're the ones encouraging pregnant women with children to go out into the workforce, and somehow make lunch and dinner for their prince of a son.

2:26 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

As far as entitlement goes, there is an additional factor to a general sense of entitlement that affects young couples.

It seems to me that many young married couples, having just started out on their own, expect to maintain generally the standard of living they enjoyed while living with their parents. Obviously, a newly married couple, where one or both are in school/kollel, are not going to be able to afford the lifestyle that their parents have been able to afford after twenty five to forty years of marriage. Newly marrieds must keep in mind that their parents likely lived much more frugally when they were first married than they do after half a lifetime, and should adjust their expectations accordingly.

3:04 PM  
Blogger Orthonomics said...

I don't think the sense of entitlement is limited to learners in the least. I see it everywhere. Like deemer said, it is up to parents to set limits and encourage choices.

Often the best way to encourage good choices is to give the freedom to make choices within limits. Unfortunately, what many parents today do is forget to set the limits.

3:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a sick world out there, and getting sicker, ladies and gentlemen.

4:18 PM  

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