Blogging The School Board Meeting II
Tonight was the inaugural meeting of the newly sworn-in school board. Some details:
All the post-election talk about giving the new school board a chance to prove itself, and the blabbering on about bridge-building in the wake of the acrimony that reared its head during the course of the last few elections has shown itself to be just that - empty blabbering.
More later. Dinner awaits.
- Asher Mansdorf elected president, and David Sussman vice president of the new school board by a margin of 4-2, despite objections by school board member Pamela Greenbaum, where she criticized Mansdorf's attendance (he apparently missed 8 meetings - one for his son's wedding), and claimed that Sussman "lost" $18 million when he was president of the school board.
- Board member Stanley Kopilow said that the referendum on the sale of the #1 building is a "referendum on the new Orthodox school board." Whatever that means.
- Barry Ringelheim of Atlantic Beach, presumably a public school parent, wrote a nasty letter (read by his wife because he had made other comments and apparently was out of time) criticizing the private school parents for their lack of interest in the needs of the public schools, and accusing them of being driven only by their own narrow agenda. Here we go again.
- The Board then went in to a private executive session.
All the post-election talk about giving the new school board a chance to prove itself, and the blabbering on about bridge-building in the wake of the acrimony that reared its head during the course of the last few elections has shown itself to be just that - empty blabbering.
More later. Dinner awaits.
posted by orthomom at 9:30 PM
222 Comments:
i can set my clocks by you..
please do tell more...anything on the positive note, did Mr. Kaufman apologize for his outburst during last meeting???
I look foreward to find out what this year will bring us.
What did ringelheim say in his earlier comments?
Anonymous said...
please do tell more...anything on the positive note, did Mr. Kaufman apologize for his outburst during last meeting???
Not directly. He did apologize for taking his oath in private. Apparently there was some objection to that, and he apologized for doing so, saying had he known that people would object, he wouldn't have done so. (Hatten took the oath in private as well). Kaufman was very civil this evening.
Anonymous said...
What did ringelheim say in his earlier comments?
It was actually quite amazing. He asked the Superintendent why doesn't communicates regularly with all the board members, if they all should have received laptops. (Apparently all the board members were given laptops a few years ago.) He asked Dr. Mansdorf directly where the laptops were, as if he somehow held Asher Mansdorf acountable for the whereabouts of laptops - even though Dr Mansdorf was president of the board for all of less than an hour. Dr. Mansdorf said he would do his best to get the answer to that question.
He also questioned, in the course of his little speech, whether Dr. Mansdorf had the qualifications to be elected president of the board "being as he was only on then board for 1 year". Dr. Mansdorf politely pointed out that he had actually been on the board for FIVE years.
there was definitely more rudeness shown tonight by the public school side. i will freely admit that, even as a public school parent myself. ringelheim was embarassing.
I am not familiar with with the term RINGELHEIM. Can someone explain?
I assume Mrs. Greenbaum would have been happier with Michael Hatten as president and Uri Kaufman as vice president - after all, the others were so unqualified...
gotta love this stuff. hey ortho when do the property taxes go down?
" Anonymous said...
I am not familiar with with the term RINGELHEIM. Can someone explain? "
It's a name. OM mentioned the guy in her post.
Anyone else catch the man at the beginning of the meeting the handing Mr. Kaufman papers? Apparantly Mr. Kaufman was "served". Seems the process servers finaly caught up to him. I guess you can't climb out you window forever to avoid being served.
>Anyone else catch the man at the beginning of the meeting the handing Mr. Kaufman papers? Apparantly Mr. Kaufman was "served". Seems the process servers finaly caught up to him. I guess you can't climb out you window forever to avoid being served.
Come on. This conjecture is getting dumb.
OM - the spin you put on things amazes me. When the orthodox claim they want peace and then disrupt it, no comment, but when the orthodox overtly elect people to offices that are not qualified - missing one third of the meetings, and that is not counting the meetings when Dr. Mansdorf was late or left early or the numberous times he was on the phone during board meetings - and Dr. Sussman - you ask for fiscal accountability but you can overlook the mismanagement of $18 in reserve accounts - I am just speechless as to how you can seemly think that it is alright for the orthodox to disrupt the lives of public school students and their parents over money and create such hostility in the community and then blame the same people for being upset when you rub their noses in it. I know I am ranting - but enough already. I am tired of the children seeing the adults fighting and the children learning such bad lessons. Lets be adults and stop fighting.
So sad. It makes me so sad.
- I am just speechless as to how you can seemly think that it is alright for the orthodox to disrupt the lives of public school students and their parents over money and create such hostility in the community and then blame the same people for being upset when you rub their noses in it.
This comment of yours makes ME sad. Ther's no point in even having a discussion with your notions as preconceived as they clearly are. "the orthodox" who "create such hostility in the community"? Ha. And you marvel at MY attempts at spin.
OM said :
"A preliminary observation:
All the post-election talk about giving the new school board a chance to prove itself, and the blabbering on about bridge-building in the wake of the acrimony that reared its head during the course of the last few elections has shown itself to be just that - empty blabbering."
You must be joking!!!Or are we going to forget Uri Kaufman's lovely threatening tirade of the prior meeting?
We would have tried to build that bridge- but the "Little LOUD wolf" huffed and puffed and blew it all down!
We fooled ourselves till we could not any longer.
Need I even mention the lovely Mr.Forman who loves to vote NO to just about anything - EVEN the safety of little children!
Sad that it is!
We are a PUBLIC School district at the mercy of non Public school people.
You must be joking!!!Or are we going to forget Uri Kaufman's lovely threatening tirade of the prior meeting?
I think that calling his words "threatening" is an exaggeration, though I have no problem admitting that he did not start off on the right foot at the last school board meeting. As I mentioned after that meeting, I would hope to see better behavior from him in the future. This week he was very polite, for what it's worth.
I saw you there tonight. You shouldn't be so obvious. You were the only Ortho woman there.
I think the meeting was interesting. Nothing has changed, nothing was accomplished, and some parents were very rude. Mr. Kaufman was fine, he still needs to learn how not to make faces during the meetings. We need to stop the fighting between us.
Board member Stanley Kopilow said that the referendum on the sale of the #1 building is a "referendum on the new Orthodox school board." Whatever that means.
This means, if the community does not approve the resolution to put the money to the buildings, it shows the community does not have faith in the board they elected to handle the money.
Sussman "lost" $18 million when he was president of the school board.
Sussman was the President when the "18" million disappeared.
It also was not 18 it was 16.2 the state audit found the money.
Neuberg will make sure the building sale goes through - he would be leaving too much money on the table if not.
As for the public school parents....when is enough enough? I am Ortho and totally disagree with the fact that the PUBLIC school board is majority non-public school parents. However whats done is done and it is time to move on. I know if the shoe were on the other foot - if I were a public school parent, I would cash out of my house by overcharging some young turk from Brooklyn, take the money and run to another neighborhood and build up a school district there. Much like the Ortho's have come in and "blockbust" in Lawrence and Cedarhurst, so too you all can decide to up and move and start over in a new neighborhood. Frankly, its not like the 5 Towns is all that charming what with the airplanes, terrible commute, train noise, sewage river in cedar bay park...there are so many other nice areas on LI...please take it under consideration.
This means, if the community does not approve the resolution to put the money to the buildings, it shows the community does not have faith in the board they elected to handle the money.
This is just another attempted con-job by Kopilow. If voters don't approve Prop. 2, it would more likely indicate that people don't trust the old board's assessment of $30 million in necessary repairs. If the board presented a somewhat plausible dollar amount for necessary repairs, there would be a remote chance at passing this, but there's no way it will pass now.
And might I add, the voters already did reject this proposition. Can anyone explain why they should have to vote on it again?
At the meeting, one of the Nicki Greene-Douglas (a PTA leader) asked each of the board members to declare whether they, as board members, would publicly advocate for the passage of Prop 2.
Are school board members allowed to publicly advocate for or against a proposition that they present to voters?
Goy guy - you should pay attention.
The resolution was meant to go through in one part - encompassing both the sale and the money going into a capital fund.
However the lawyers CLAIM that we cannot do that. So 2 resolutions are up for a vote.
1) the sale
2) the money from the sale to go to a capital fund for building repairs (after debt is paid)
We are all more than aware that this 2nd proposition failed at the last election. That is why Stanley tried the link!
It is a terrible thing that a SCHOOL building will be sold to an unknown entity who if the Moratorium against the property is not lifted can FLIP the property to a private institution who is NOT a tax paying entity!
Then we - the tax payers lose!
If the voters say no to the capital fund- they are saying NO to the safety of the district children!!!
They should all be ashamed of themselves.
The CURRENT board has the discretion on how to spend that capital fund money! They can watchdog the spending.
So why not vote for it to go back to the buildings?
Trust not your trustees?
Anonymous@ 10:11am said:
"if I were a public school parent, I would cash out of my house by overcharging some young turk from Brooklyn, take the money and run to another neighborhood and build up a school district there. Much like the Ortho's have come in and "blockbust" in Lawrence and Cedarhurst, so too you all can decide to up and move and start over in a new neighborhood. Frankly, its not like the 5 Towns is all that charming what with the airplanes, terrible commute, train noise, sewage river in cedar bay park...there are so many other nice areas on LI...please take it under consideration."
Well, well, well- no you think we need your "advice" to take the money and run?
How nice of you to suggest we leave for greener pastures.
Perhaps instead of "blockbusting" here- you should go to another area where you can throw your money around and improve a community- rather than trash it and it's public schools.
We were hear first - and we will not be pushed out by even the pushiest.
By the way- exactly how many homes in North Woodmere sit UNSOLD from such an exodus? I guess the enclave of young turks does not exist in the extent which you speak of.
Perhaps if you moved in and allowed your children to play with their non-ortho neighbors,
You would be WELCOME.
But it is not a welcome you seek.
As you stated- you want us to get out.
Very nice!
Call yourself religious- what a hypocrisy!
Who is this Neuberg that is "Supposedly" buying the #1 school property anyhow?
Does anyone know them?
If the voters say no to the capital fund- they are saying NO to the safety of the district children!!!
They should all be ashamed of themselves.
The CURRENT board has the discretion on how to spend that capital fund money! They can watchdog the spending.
So why not vote for it to go back to the buildings?
Trust not your trustees?
The new board should retain an architect/engineer to provide a legitimate assessment of the necessary repairs. No one believes we really need to spend $30 million on repairs (like Fitzsimons claims) and no one trusts any architects/engineers who were brought in by Fitzsimons and the old board.
Ironically, Fitzsimons stated last year that the district needed $10 million in capital improvements. They, when the bid came in for $27.5 million, all of a sudden there were $30 million in capital improvements needed.
... And that's why Prop 2 doesn't stand a chance.
The Superintendent has pleaded with the boards - both old and new to form an
ADHOC committee to assess the buildings!
What do you think he is hiding?
Wouldn't a committee get to the core of the repairs?
You just love to twist things to your way of thinking.
Watch how fast this new board gets this committee together- NOT!
That depends who's on the committee. So what's the point of a committee? They need trustworthy professionals who aren't in anyone's pocket.
But it certainly is coincidental that the capital improvement needs immediately skyrocketed when the $27.5 bid came in.
The new board will form the committee.
Who is to say they will not fill it with non public school people?
They need to hold themselves and the people they choose accountable.
Take three estimates for each repair and make them blind...
It can be done.
Anonymous 10:11
I am an Ortho as well and I am completely embarrassed to be associated with you. If you can only live with people who are like you then maybe you don't belong here either. Does your complete intolerance of anyone not like you extend only to non-orthos or to different levels of Ortho also? My goodness!!
are you 5? Can we have a little bit of maturity here?
The new board will form the committee.
Who is to say they will not fill it with non public school people?
You must be completely delusional. On it's last leg, the lame duck board did everything within it's control to shaft the incoming board and to defy the people who voted them out. Do you honestly expect the new board to bend over backwards and pander to the old board's interests.
The shift of control on the board was brought about by an overwhelming majority of voters, with the greatest defeat of a school board candidate in recent years. They clearly have the mandate (unlike the outgoing board that shafted them) and they are certainly qualified to determine how these decisions should be made - and Kopilow and Greenbaum can scream and yell till the cows come home.
That is my point, this whole blog/forum is immature...!!!
No one on or off the board in the ortho community gives a shit about the public schools, nor should we. All we care about is paying less in taxes. Protecting ones interests by definition sacrifices others, that is democracy!
BTW, if you are really seeking some "maturity" and are tasty, let's take this offline and i'll show you how mature i can be...!!!
Not delusional - you are all up in arms about a teacher's contract.
Have any of you bothered to see it?
Do you know what it gives and gets?
Why does it offend you for public schools here to have good teachers and not the bottom of the scale?
This is purely a hate forum.
I perused some of the other topics:
The Jews for Jesus was a hoot.
Talk about self righteous and judgemental! Being Christian- I never
understood the concept either- since the main ideal of your religion is your claim that Jesus was not the messiah!
Loved the Plan B contraceptive one!
So it is okay with your God that you kill a baby that he allowed you to conceive?
Or do you not believe he has anything to do with conception?
and that was just 2 forums...
my my my
This is getting funnier and funnier. I feel like I am watching an episode of Jerry Springer. The Public School teachers that continuously read and comment on this blog are such characatures of the stereotypical liberal left wing nut teacher unionists. Thanks for the daily entertainment. KEEP IT UP!!!
This is purely a hate forum.
I perused some of the other topics:
The Jews for Jesus was a hoot.
Talk about self righteous and judgemental! Being Christian- I never
understood the concept either- since the main ideal of your religion is your claim that Jesus was not the messiah!
Read up on Judaism before preaching about what the "main ideal" of our religion is (if you are at all literate). Judaism was around way before Jesus (a Jew) and thus the "main ideal" of Judaism has nothing at all to do with Jesus, who wasn't born till thousands of years after Judaism began. Nobody likes it when outsiders try and convert people of their religion to another - hence the post about Jews for Jesus. If Muslims came around with pamphlets to your churches, I'm sure you'd feel the same. Nothing to do with "self-righteousness" or being "judgmental" - but rather a sense of protectiveness over our children and brethren who are ill-equipped to deal with missionaries bearing gifts.
Loved the Plan B contraceptive one!
So it is okay with your God that you kill a baby that he allowed you to conceive?
Or do you not believe he has anything to do with conception?
Again, your utter ignorance is apparent. There are complex laws dealing with contraception and abortion in Judaism. Pretty dumb to assume that because perhaps Christianity has a blanket rule about such things, so does Judaism. Read up on Judaims if you hope to post intelligently on this blog. The only one spewing hate, ingnorance and intolerance is you - an ignoramus attempting to lecture on a religion you plainly know nothing about.
Anonymous said... 2:19 PM
Brilliant retort. You hit the nail on the head.
As usual - you miss the real point...
I will be clearer:
It is not the main ideal- just the major difference between us!
The points I meant in the Jews for JESUS discussion were not against your problems with them preaching at all.
But quotes like this:
"First: Begin by describing the unique nature and the profound significance of God’s national revelation to the Jewish People. (See the Introduction). This creates unique credibility for Judaism and its theology, which is qualitatively superior to Christian claims."
I will attest that I am ignorant to YOUR interpretation on the Jewish laws on contraception.
Glad you are allowed to take the morning after pill. Bully for you!
But heaven forbid your child should pick up any BAD things from non orthodox kids! (somewhat anon- that is meant for you!)
And for your info- NOT A TEACHER!
I am a public school parent.
Dear anon 12:17/2:38 aka "public school parent":
For someone who's read only the Jews for Jesus and contraception posts, you're pretty familiar with the OM roster.
Let me make this clear for YOU:
As usual - you miss the real point...
I will be clearer:
It is not the main ideal- just the major difference between us!
Oh, I get it now. Your argument has now changed from the philosophical distinction between two major religions, to the difference between you and me - a person you've never met. Nice. I'll be sure to support our local public school debate team - looks like they've done a fine job honing the illogical retort.
First: Begin by describing the unique nature and the profound significance of God’s national revelation to the Jewish People. (See the Introduction). This creates unique credibility for Judaism and its theology, which is qualitatively superior to Christian claims.
Strike 2, p.s. doofus. This quote is nowhere in OM's post and is thus a complete mischaracterization of the spirit of the post and clearly no basis for calling this blog a "hate forum." What's next- quotes from the Elders of Zion?
I will attest that I am ignorant to YOUR interpretation on the Jewish laws on contraception.
Glad you are allowed to take the morning after pill. Bully for you!
But heaven forbid your child should pick up any BAD things from non orthodox kids! (somewhat anon- that is meant for you!)
And I will attest to your ignorance with respect to the interpretation of the Jewish laws of contraception or anything else. I certainly did not claim to authorize the morning after pill or any other type of contraception. What I did point out was that in Judaism, these laws are complex and somewhat flexible. No need for detail here that you are plainly not interested in. There are plenty of rabbis you could consult with if you're considering a conversion, although they'd probably look askance at a potential convert who was simply seeking the morning after pill. What's the matter - can't afford the ps tuition for your apparently unwanted offspring? No need to be envious - take the pill and say a couple of hail marys at confession. See what I mean about the idiot's version of someone else's religion . . .
We're not worried about our kids picking up bad habits from non-Ortho kids. We're worried about uninformed, bigoted hatemongers like you brainwashing your children to curse and glare at our kids just because we don't support endless, unaccounted for sums of money being endlessly funneled to public schools that are seriously flawed. Nothing personal - it's the ecomony, stupid.
-Anon 2:19 (EG)
Never have I ever taught my children to glare or hate ANYONE!
I teach them to live and let live.
That everyone has a right to believe what they wish.
Not to judge people for being different.
Probably why I am incensed when i read the opposite here!
Just because you choose to preach from a "flexible" pulpit- do not claim to know what I am about!
I am turning into a minority in our area- and discussions like this blog are partly the reason.
That and the take over and rule attitudes of SOME of the orthos.
I have tried to keep a good outlook during all this- but is getting increasingly more difficult.
I love my children and if GOD blessed me with another- I would be thrilled- not take a pill! That is my choice.
I would not assume to judge which pharmacy should or should not carry such pills. NOT MY PLACE- nor yours!
That quote came directly from the Jews for Jesus topic- read it before you claim it did not! Not from OM but as a comment.
I will refrain from any more comment- and from reading anything non school related.
I will pretend there are no ANTI- non- Jew discussions here.
I will turn back to my main objective in coming here in the first place-
to try to make some of you understand that we are not a district of thieves trying to take your hard earned tax dollars and pissing it away.
We are parents of beautiful children- JUST LIKE YOU- who are only trying to do the best for them and all the children here.
None of us want to take anything from your children -please show us the same courtesy.
DOne...
anon 2:38 (aka public school parent) - I was thinking of staying out of this one (anon 2:19's rebuttal was quite sufficient), but I just can't resist your polite invitation to join in here.
First of all, I don't believe I ever said that I was worried that my kids would pick up "bad" things from the non-orthodox, but rather that they would pick up non-orthodox values from them (which from the subjective orthodox perspective, would be bad).
Secondly, I don't see how the fact that the morning-after pill is not always forbidden under Jewish law (although, as noted, it is a complicated issue, and rather fact specific) has any bearing on the fact that non-orthodox institutions and peers will tend to imbue non-orthodox values in orthodox kids.
Postscript: anon 2:38/public school parent - You quote that comment from the J4J thread as if it is scandalous. Why exactly is it a problem, let alone shocking for Jews to believe that their religion is true (and by virtue of this truth, superior)? Do you not believe in the superiority of your own religion? And if you don't, why do you continue to adhere to it?
how about we go back to pretending that this is not about religious differences but fiscial irresponsibility?
..occasional reader...
I love it!!! Orthomom you are the best - - keep up your blogging - - I love the fighting, it is PRICELESS!!
Dear Orthomom,
I love you so much. I wish you were my REAL mom.
xoxoxoxoxoxo,
Orthodaughter
Jesus, guys. Enough with the lovefest. (no offense to OM's Christian readership)
Ironically, Fitzsimons stated last year that the district needed $10 million in capital improvements. They, when the bid came in for $27.5 million, all of a sudden there were $30 million in capital improvements needed.
*****************************
that was prior to the closing of the high school auditorium, do your homework
Ironically, Fitzsimons stated last year that the district needed $10 million in capital improvements. They, when the bid came in for $27.5 million, all of a sudden there were $30 million in capital improvements needed.
*****************************
that was prior to the closing of the high school auditorium, do your homework
Classic.
Thanks for the homework.
$30 million - $10 million
= $20 million
So Fitzsimons's position is that it will cost $20 million to fix the high school auditorium?
Something tells me that argument isn't going to get Prop 2 passed either.
IF you were up on the topics- you would know that 2 schools have expensive steam trap heating issues that need to be fixed as well.
Snide remarks are not necessary.
Call or email the Superintendent's office and get the itemized list for yourselves.
It is public record.
Call or email the Superintendent's office and get the itemized list for yourselves.
As though he doesn't have his own agenda? He seems to be on the same page as the old board.
Anon 10:11-take the money and run? Are you implying that people should simply uproot their lives, their kids lives-no problem! I'm orthodox, and I'd appreciate if you stop giving us a bad name.
And anon 12:17-I don't get where the whole idea of a hate forum is coming from. We practice Judaism because we think it's right. what's wrong with that? It doesn't mean we don't accept anyone different, we just don't appreciate when others try to force their religion on people who we see as our brothers, especially when they try to diguise it as something that it's not. Our religion has survived, to a great extent, because we are careful about the values that we teach our children. However, the fact that your values may not be the ones I'd like my children to have, doesnt change the fact that I'd like them to respect you as a person, and that you are entitled to your ideas. I don't see how this is different from anyone else.
Oy, eem. You mean well, but your tunnel vision isn't helping your argumnet. A statement like "the fact that your values may not be the ones I'd like my children to have" is presumptuous, judgmnental, and damn ignorant being that I'm pretty sure that you (like me) know almost nothing about Christian values. Why not leave the clever retorts to someone better equipped to deal with it like anon 2:19 and get back to your sefer.
anon 6:43 - In eem's defense (and my own), it hardly takes deep knowledge of christian values to understand that they are not compatible with Jewish values. This is not to say that there aren't certain christian values that match up closely to Jewish teachings - but its the values that are different that would be a problem. Unless you're suggesting that christian and Jewish values are somehow compatible?
if we all just leave the religion out of the argument and talk about PRIVATE VS. PUBLIC schools issues, we all be better off. I mean emotionally less involved.
Are there any parents whose kids attend LWA reading this blog??? Any comment???
By the way,my tatti allowed me to play with my non-orthodox neighbor's kids.i am still frum,learn,never miss minyan.
By the way so do my formerly non-orthodox neighbor's kids and their children who are frummer than i am.
The phonies in this community will have to answer for this misereable un toradik behavior.
anon 7:56 - perhaps there's an ever so slight difference between playing with the neighbor's kids and going to public school with them.
The more I read, the more I want to puke!
I believe the 10 million quote for repairs referred strictly to repairs needed at the high school alone ... the higher amount of money mentioned for repairs include repairs to all of the district buildings.
and as for Comments such as these -
"Anonymous@ 10:11am said:
"if I were a public school parent, I would cash out of my house by overcharging some young turk from Brooklyn, take the money and run to another neighborhood and build up a school district there. Much like the Ortho's have come in and "blockbust" in Lawrence and Cedarhurst, so too you all can decide to up and move and start over in a new neighborhood. Frankly, its not like the 5 Towns is all that charming what with the airplanes, terrible commute, train noise, sewage river in cedar bay park...there are so many other nice areas on LI...please take it under consideration."
Is it any wonder why the public school population is concerned?
Nobody mentioning Michael Hatten's sworn statement, filed with the District, about the eight dollars his campaign cost? C'mon, Orthomom. Surely you will tell us how this too is all a big public school lie?
Obviously, you didn't look up the law either (and neither did the Herald or the District official who was quoted).
There's no big lie here - just some fabricated regulations and a silly witchhunt which won't get much traction outside of this blog, and, of course from those couple of vindictive trustees and ranting parents who show up at the meetings.
How can a candidate be responsible for someone else's expenditures when he/she doesn't know where they came from and didn't solicit or approve them?
It doesn't seem unreasonable to me. IF the law says that you are responsible, then it would be your obligation to report any such ads that you see to the proper authorities. Doesn't seem that complicated to me.
So you're reasoning that the candidates should be responsible, even though the law clearly doesn't ascribe any responsibility to them for expenditures that they hadn't approved?
Why don't you have a look at the actual law, rather than alleging that the candidates violated your interpretation of an article?
Orthomom, you really need to stop causing more tension. There is enough already and you make everything much worse. If you want to tell what happened at an event (for example, a board meeting) then tell the whole story and not bits and pieces that make one side look better than the other. Everyone knows that if you are reporting news then you are supposed to tell both sides of it.
Anonymous said...
Orthomom, you really need to stop causing more tension. There is enough already and you make everything much worse. If you want to tell what happened at an event (for example, a board meeting) then tell the whole story and not bits and pieces that make one side look better than the other. Everyone knows that if you are reporting news then you are supposed to tell both sides of it.
First of all, I am not a reporter. I am a blogger. You may have your notions about what I am "supposed" to do, but to tell a blogger that "Everyone knows that if you are reporting news then you are supposed to tell both sides of it" is a bit amusing. Bloggers are a new media precisely because they genrally give their own unique perspective to the news. To paraphrase from a certain news channel's motto, "They report, I decide." I call 'em like I see 'em.
That said, I'm not sure what else occurred last night that you are referring to. I think I reported on the only noteworthy events of the evening - feel free to add your own observations. That's why I have an open comments section.
Also, don't feel bad about feeling like my blog is biased to reflect the private school side of the conflict. The public school community has its own biased "reporting" of how events actually transpire. They call themselves the Nassau Herald. And my post on THAT topic is coming very shortly.
anon 10:55 - (serious non-snarky question) Do you have more details to add than what OM posted? If so, please share the "other side".
Unrelated note: Somewhere upthread there was a suggestion made that non-orthodox residents should consider moving out of the area if they are unhappy with the school situation/orthodox influx. To put it mildly - this is an unhelpful statement. I don't care for it when longtime residents (how many years do you need to qualify for that status anyhow?) complain about the orthodox moving in as if people's choice of domicile is some affront to all that is right and good. Similarly though, those of us who are newer to the neighborhood shouldn't make statements proclaiming our "ownership" of the neighborhood. People can live where they choose, and if there are issues, telling one group to leave (or to consider leaving, or whatever) is really uncalled for.
Oh My GOD!!!!
Did she really just say that the HERALD reports the public school's side of things?
Surely she has not been reading it for too long.
I ask everyone here to refrain from making inflammatory statements such as the one referenced directly above this by Somewhat Anonymous. Regardless of whether we all disagree on topics such as the state of our public schools, we are all neighbors and fellow humans, and we should act like it. Respectful discourse should be the name of the game here.
Anonymous said...
Oh My GOD!!!!
Did she really just say that the HERALD reports the public school's side of things?
Surely she has not been reading it for too long.
That's too, too funny. Maybe YOU haven't been reading it lately. Like...how about the editorial endorsing the "public school candidates" - not because the editor thought they were more qualified, but simply because he felt that non-public school parents need not apply. That's pretty undemocratic, as well as clearly one-sided. Or the unbelievably loaded post-election article that the Herald ran (I blogged about it) - one-sided would be quite the understatement.
I think these are noteworthy as well:
The fact that they want to discuss hiring new attorneys...meanwhile they finally have the best attorneys who work for some of the best districts (Great Neck, Hewlett, Lynbrook,...)
Sussman wanted to change the schedule of the meetings...C'mon that's what his concern is at this point? They have been on Tuesdays since...I can't even remember it has been that long.
Some positives:
The recap of graduation.
Mrs. Beach being approved for her new position.
Anonymous said...
I think these are noteworthy as well:
The fact that they want to discuss hiring new attorneys...meanwhile they finally have the best attorneys who work for some of the best districts (Great Neck, Hewlett, Lynbrook,...)
Sussman wanted to change the schedule of the meetings...C'mon that's what his concern is at this point? They have been on Tuesdays since...I can't even remember it has been that long.
Some positives:
The recap of graduation.
Mrs. Beach being approved for her new position.
I appreciate your comment. I didn;\'t personally find those parts as interesting as you did, but I guess that's the point of blogging and reading other people's comments - to gain different perspectives on events.
You don't think it's interesting that they want to find different attorneys when they already have the best?
Anonymous said...
You don't think it's interesting that they want to find different attorneys when they already have the best?
"the best" is hardly an objective qualification.If they are unhappy with their lawyers, that's really all that is relevant to the decision whether to stick with them or not.
Anyone else find it funny that Kaufman kept looking at Sussman and Mansdorf to decide how to vote on everything?
I don't think the publisher of the NH has any more of an obligation to support positions they disagree with than you do. Which is "no obligation at all".
Support positions? Perhaps not, though I am not convinced that a news outlet is entitled to show bias so openly. But report facts in a neutral and unbiased manner? They absolutely have an obligation to do so.
goy guy - This would be true of their editorial page and opinion columns. Articles in the paper that are portrayed as news reporting should attept to be objective, at least that's what the basic journalistic principle of objecticity would dictate (although it seems that this principle is more honored in the breach than in the observance).
goy guy -
As to the passing of objective news coverage in practice, I think we are in agreement as per my parenthetical note.
As to our OTHER local paper - it seems to me that all of the partisan school board coverage and the like is written by the editor, and as such is identifiably opinion and not portrayed as objective reporting. The objective news reporting (generally community events and such) in said publication is usually buried inside on five or six pages that run through the middle of the paper. There are also a lot of wire service and JTA/Arutz Shva/Haaretz articles that fall under the "reporting" heading.
Okay, after reading all 86 comments I have come to one conclusion, not one person has written about the children. Every other issue has come up. So let us talk about the children. There is no way anything will get done, if we sit and bicker about newspapers etc. This board was elected by the community. The community has spoken is what I had read. So voting down this proposition will show confidence in a board voted on by the community. Also, by selling a building to a builder who might not be able to build is insane. Those luxury apartments will bring much needed tax dollars into this community. Another school we do not need. Perhaps leasing it would have been more cost effective. Don't worry about Albany receiving complaints. They already know. It is time to stop this crap. Yesterday is yesterday, and today is a new day. Stop with the private vs public. Perhaps if we were a community, we could get things done.
The point is enough, crap. The public schools will always be here. The board can by law (nys non-public school manual) only give so much money, and that is that. If the schools don't get fixed no matter what the cost, it becomes a safety issue, and I can assure you there are those waiting to file that lawsuit, and when it wins, and the state has to step in, after Hevesi found no wrong doing, no one will have control.
You're right. The buildings need to be safe for the children and for any other people who choose to use the buildings. I have been in the buildings plenty and I feel unsafe many times. There are constantly tiles falling from the ceiling and almost hitting students (I'm a witness to that). The buildings need to be safe for everyone...not only the public school students, but for everyone who wants to use the buildings.
Spirit_of_Lawrence said "The fact that some candidates might have filed incomplete expenditure reports is an insufficient basis for setting aside the results of an election. Matter of Pendergast, 1980, 20 Educ.Dept.Rep. 127."
Spirit the problem here is not the election. The problem is a public official who could not manage the simple requirement of disclosing who paid for his campaign. Its about signing an affidavit that contains a lie. Hatten's campaign cost more than eight dollars and if he didn't know that when he was standing in front of that notary, then we have another, very serious problem.
I apologize in advance, I've been sitting quiet for awile so this is a long one-
First of all, thank you OM for covering so many important topics. I hope to once again join in at school board meetings in the future, as I've been a bit out of the loop...
In reading alot of these back and forth comments, it seems that sometimes things are being taken out of context, and there's a great deal of nastiness being spewed (sp?). Yes, our district is facing some tough times ahead, but why don't we give some benefit of the doubt and quit with the preconceived notions? The oevergeneralizations about Ortho, non-ortho, public, private school community are getting way out of hand. Each side feels that when the "other side" is in control, that the controlling faction can't possibly address their concerns. The bottom line is that this school board is now made up of a majority of residents who's children have not attended the public schools (residents of this district who have every right to be on a school board, being that they pay the same school taxes as everyone else. Besides, it's with the help of these non-public school family's taxes that the district is able to spend the ridiculous 23K that they do per student.) This new maority now really needs to prove that it can be neutral and attempt to see all sides. (There is a bit of a double standard here, don't you think? Never mind, we're quite used to it.) If the school board is unsuccessful/ ineffective/ unresponsible fiscally, no one will say, "oh yeah, the Lawrence school board messed up," rather, it'll be "those Orthodox (INSERT THE EXPLATIVE OF YOUR CHOICE)really messed up." (Please, naysayers, give me a break, you know it's true.) Thus, the sb majority, in a way, has a added responsibility to "do the right thing" which is part of the problem, because that means so many things to so many people, and to set a good example, just so no one will point extra fingers. Tough Job...
On another related note-on the topic of conformity- I think we all need to think and get versed on the issues before we vote or get on a bandwagon, because as we see from the budget defeat, no one wants their taxes to be sky high, but we also have to remember for those of us that voted down the budget, that although we may not directly benefit from public school services, we may have friends, relatives and neighbors who do, and now many of these services are going to or have been cut. Taxes are a huge part of it- (I certainly detest the fact that they've gone up almost 3K in 7 years) but I have to be honest and say that part of me laments that fact that although I made every attempt to inform myself about the issues, I feel that I acted hastily in following the pack and voting the budget down. What did it get us?
I'm not sure if you're victim of this deception or not, but this is still nothing more than a red herring
I just put up a post about this.
The bottom line is that this school board is now made up of a majority of residents who's children have not attended the public schools
Not true.
Each of Kopilow, Greenbaum, Sussman and Hatten have had children in public school.
It's a little late to second guess yourself. I don't remember the number exactly but it would have been around $20 more a year for you to pay if you voted "yes" on the budget. Meanwhile, everyones education should be supported and you did not support the education of the public school students when you voted "no" on the budget.
ridiculous 23K that they do per student
We do not spend that much. From what I was told, that number does not include monies given to us by the state, and other monies coming in. Like how many people know, that for children who receive special education services, that have Medicaid, we bill and get money. Taxes will always go up. No matter what you do, be happy you do not live on the North Shore, where they pay 17,000, and had people arrested for stealing. This board needs to stop fighting with each other first. I really do not care who is on the board, I just do not want to hear how money is being blown. Two of the members of this board, have been on the board since before our money problems, no matter how you slice it , the state is going to step in, for those of you at the meetings, the people filming the board meetings where do you think the tapes are going? Remember it is a board of the public schools. That cannot be changed no matter how many children go to non public schools.
anon 12:29 - So voting against a budget means not supporting education of public school students? Why can't it mean supporting their education with slightly less funding?
Less funding, last year a budget was voted down, that was less than austerity. We spent more money, where is the logic in that
Thank you annon 12:27, I stand corrected. So the issue about the new majorty is not that they are non public school parents, but that because they are from the Orthodox community, that they can't possibly have the public school's children's interests in mind? (I'm just trying to understand the issues) Maybe a great deal of the public assumes eroneously, that as members of the Orthodox community, that they can't possibly support public school ed, because they again, eroneously assume (as did I) that they did not have children in the ps system?
anon 12:30 - There will likely always be public schools in Lawrence, and the board is obviously a "public school board" regardless of the attendance rate. What does change, however, as the number of private school students rises, and the number of public school students decrease, is the amount of resources needed to run the public school system. A district with half of the children in private school requires less infrastructure, fewer teachers and administrators and lower taxes to pay for it all than a similar district where most children attend public schools.
no matter how you slice it , the state is going to step in, for those of you at the meetings, the people filming the board meetings where do you think the tapes are going?
that's laughable. The state couldn't give a hoot about your reservations regarding the democracy in the district. Maybe they should send the tapes to Michael Moore instead.
that as members of the Orthodox community
I think religion needs to stay out of this. I do not care who is on the board, as long as they do there job. For a community that is so behind this new board, no one is going to vote for prop 2. What don't trust your board to approve proper spending? Go ahead vote it down, get the $100.00 back, but you know when an organization of any nature wants to use the gym, or the school, and they can't because of safety or financial issues, we will only have ourselves to blame. Or what happens when a roof collapses on a child, then when they sue, which they will, we won't ever have to worry again.
Go ahead vote it down, get the $100.00 back
That's some fuzzy math.
Unless your property tax bill is $500, you're not getting $100 back. Your property tax bill probably is somewhere between $6,000 and $15,000, which means that you'll probably get between $1,200 and $3,000 back. And I'm sure the board will still have enough money to take care of the necessary capital improvements
"Somewhat Anonymous said...
anon 12:29 - So voting against a budget means not supporting education of public school students? Why can't it mean supporting their education with slightly less funding?"
Less funding? Great so they can cut out programs that students need when they apply to college? I don't think that would benefit the education of the students. Think of all of the students who go to college based on their talents (art, music, sports...). I think less funding would hurt those students in a big way. Therefore, voting against the budget is voting against the education of the public school students.
that's laughable. The state couldn't give a hoot about your reservations regarding the democracy in the district
Wrong, call and ask, they do care. As far as enrollment lowering, that is not a hundred percent true on all counts. There are children being enrolled that need special services, and the amount of teachers needed will continue to rise, we send teachers into all private schools, even though the state does not require this, these teachers are full tenured teachers, perhaps a savings would require all services approved would be given at the public schools. Which I think would be a travesty. As far as taxes going down due to public schools, that is almost as good as gas prices going down after invading Iraq
delusional
yes, annon 12:39, religion should stay out of this, but unfortunately that's not how it's being played. When people say that the newcomers are "ruining" the 'hood- that it used to be so wonderful 30 plus years ago, unfortunately although maybe not meant as a jab specifically against members of the Orthodox community, that's who it's referring to...for the most part, the majority of people moving in in the past 5-7 years are not those who sent to St. Joachim.
anon 12:44 - Somehow most of us private school students get by without any of these programs, and still manage to succeed in life. I had a very bare-bones curriculum for secular studies and have done just fine, thank G-d.
That being said I don't mean to imply that public schools should not have any such programs - but you seem to be saying that they are vital and are effectively entitled to whatever funding they request, and I disagree strongly with both of those contentions.
That's some fuzzy math
Example, whatever, really pick,pick,pick. The public schools will always be here. The district will continue to only by law have to pay for what they are required for. That is reality, no matter who is on the board, or what they spent, the community will continue to vote down the budget, because this board will not accomplish the cuts the community hoped for. Reality is the taxes will go up, the budget won't pass, and next year we will be doing this again.
anon 12:45 - I don't know how much it costs to provide special ed, but I can guarantee you that it is far less than the cost of actually having the children enrolled in the public school system. So while private school students may still use public school resources, they use far less than they would if they were in the public schools
delusional
Call the state yourself. Ask the board yourself about the amount of teachers. Read the non-public school manual on the New York State web site, see what the district by law has to provide, and then I would say I welcome, any audit, on any service there are complaints on.
delusional
Call the state yourself. Ask the board yourself about the amount of teachers. Read the non-public school manual on the New York State web site, see what the district by law has to provide, and then I would say I welcome, any audit, on any service there are complaints on.
Call the state yourself
I have called the state myself. They don't give anyone the time of day. And certainly not some parents who are fed up with changing demographics
anon 12:54 - If we're going to be limiting the district's expenditures on private school students only to what it has to provide by law, can we similarly limit the budget for the public schools? I think most of the private school types would take that deal in a heartbeat (not that it would necessarily be a good thing overall).
Well that is your choice to go to a school that does not allow you to have those opportunities; however, being in a public school does give you those opporortunities and it should not be cut.
So while private school students may still use public school resources, they use far less than they would if they were in the public schools
A choice made by you as a parent. Anyone in Any school who does not want to pay so much in taxes, move to the city. New York state law does not provide room for there are more private school children, so I refuse to pass a budget. It just does not work this way. What can I say, I did not make the law. It is a shame to spend so much on private school, taxes, and receive so little back.
I'll admit that I'm not familiar with the mechanics involved with the State stepping in, but think its ludicrous to believe that any politician would want to meddle in something that is guaranteed to seriously irritate a wealthy and organized constituency no matter which side they take. So barring actual violations of state mandated spending requirements (overfunding private schools or underfunding public schools) I just don't see it.
can we similarly limit the budget for the public schools?
Not really, because unlike the state law on non-public schools, the state does protect the interest of it's public schools. The board represents the The children of Public School 15. There is far more legal recourse for the public school children.
but think its ludicrous to believe that any politician would want to meddle in something that is guaranteed to seriously irritate a wealthy and organized constituency no matter which side they take.
Unfortunately, wealthy and organized does not overtrump minority anymore. Hevesi seems to have no problem investigating any wrong doing. The amount of minority children in our district has risen, and I can't think of any politican who would mess with that. Also, one word. Roosevelt
Anon 12:59 - your statement "if you don't like it, move to Brooklyn" would be decent enough advice if the private schoolers were not politically organized. However, since they are - they have another alternative - to vote in their own people and change the system in their favor to the extent possible. Remember that there are all sorts of State mandates involved in public education, and those will operate to protect the public schools from being defunded too much.
Anon 12:59 - your statement "if you don't like it, move to Brooklyn" would be decent enough advice if the private schoolers were not politically organized.
I said move to the city. I did not say which part of it.
anon 1:01 - surely the school district is not currently spending only the minimum amount mandated by the state for public school education? Rather, the people of the district have decided that they want better schools than minimal funding would provide. So cuts could be made, at least to some extent, without violating any laws.
"I said move to the city. I did not say which part of it."
Ok, move to the city then - my bad. I don't think this changes anything about my subsequent point(and you're still saying to get out, in either case).
"Unfortunately, wealthy and organized does not overtrump minority anymore. Hevesi seems to have no problem investigating any wrong doing. The amount of minority children in our district has risen, and I can't think of any politican who would mess with that. Also, one word. Roosevelt"
If there is wrongdoing that would change things - but given that the new board has been in power for all of a day its kinda hard to accuse them of that? Unless you think voting down budgets and otherwise participating in the Democratic process constitutes wrongdoing?
(and you're still saying to get out, in either case).
No, absolutely not. I think everyone has a right to live wherever they want. I do not have any problems with my neighbors, and have encounter none of the so called "nastiness" others claim to encounter. I am saying, if it is too expensive to pay high taxes and then pay for private school, perhaps moving into the city would be better. I apologize if my comments were taken the wrong way.
There was plenty of wrongdoing in the audit report, and guess how much "the State" cared. There has been plenty of wrongdoing reported to "the State" over the past couple of years, and "the State" has a form letter to respond to everything.
Sit back, and enjoy the ride. "The State" may like to be kept abreast of things (because they're intersting and unique), but they are not stepping in and usurping the school board's job any sooner than Bush is getting impeached.
"Well that is your choice to go to a school that does not allow you to have those opportunities; however, being in a public school does give you those opporortunities and it should not be cut."
I assume that there is some state mandated level at which art, sports and the like must be provided. I will also go out on a limb (or not) and assume that Lawrence currently exceeds whatever that minimum is by a decent margin. Why would it be wrong to cut those programs back closer to the minimum (they would still exist) in order to lighten the budget?
Certainly it is at least a defensible position that their benefits are outweighed by their costs (especially if one is skeptical about haw truly vital they are). Deciding things like this is why we have a democratic process to decide how to weigh the relevant costs and benefits.
Well luckily nothing like this has been cut in the high school yet. I think they realize that the students need all of these classes and activities.
anon 1:15 - Actually, I had not taken offense to what you had written - I just asumed that your correction (brooklyn v. city) was based on the assumption that I had, and was pointing out that the statement was just as offensive either way (although it did not really bother me). So we have a misunderstanding within a misunderstanding - but I think we've worked it out without acrimony, which is good.
I understand that you are saying that if the taxes are too high then moving is an option. But voting your own people in and lowering the taxes is an option too, and that's the path that has been taken.
1:22 AM
Taxes will not go down. The budget is austerity, it is as low as it go's. Just like gas prices will never go down, your taxes will not as well.
Anon 1:23 - Am I wrong to believe that less money will be spent (and thus less taxes required) under the new board than the old one? Next year's budget will pass and austerity will be over - and the board can propose a lower budget if it wants.
Wow. 136 comments.
OrthoMom is a big momma.
"Sure, the board can trim some fat and programs on the pulic school side, but the supporters of the "new" board will want their piece increased."
Goy guy. That was the problem here, and that was why the voters mutinied. They weren't getting what they felt was their fair share. maybe had the board tried to cut a deal and offered to restore some services to the private school community they wouldn;t be facing austerity yet again. But they dug in their heels, not wanting to deal. they chos to shaft teh community rather than do what's best for all kids. Shame.
anon 8:21 is on to something here as to the overall political situation.Note that what follows is political analysis and not an assignment of blame -
Imagine if a decade or so ago (or whenever people started challenging the old board), when the private school folks were a smaller portion of the population and had less electoral clout, the school board had acted in an accomodating manner towards private school parents. If the board had made it clear that they wanted to see to it that private school kids received what they could, they could have bought the loyalty of the private school community for a minimal price, and no movement to vote them out would have been successful. What actually happened was quite the opposite, with budgetary ills being laid on the doorstep of the private school folks, and cuts in busing and the manner of special ed being threatened. Attacking the private school portion of the budget as opposed to cutting public school expenditures may have seemed like it was in the best interests of the pro-public school faction at the time, but all it ended up doing was motivating the private school community to come out on election day and vote for a new board. I don't know if the old board didn't realize the extent to which the demographics would shift, or if they just let their dislike of the private school types get the better of their political judgment - either way the way the past decade has unfolded speaks to a relatively stunning political ineptness on the part of the "old board" types. As I noted above in a different context, it is usually not a good idea to needlessly anger large, wealthy constituencies.
They weren't getting what they felt was their fair share.
What is fair share. New York State Law. Read it, Books,Busing,Special Services. Please don't tell me about children not getting apporved for special ed. Go on line and look at the appeals to ny state, you will see, you are not being denied. Sorry, next excuse, read all the posts above, this district does not have to "make a deal" It is a public school district. I have read comments above that public school parents should move. Give me a break. The law is on our side. The minority students in this district are not getting there fair shake. I urge the public school parents to go to court to stop the sale of school number 1, the condo's will not be approved, and yet another yeshieva will come in. Injunction is the way to go.
Attacking the private school portion of the budget
What are you talking about? If that was the case don't you think Hevesi would have found this in his audit? The women of the orthodox community need to find out the truth of what goes on, stop listening to your husbands, and perhaps then maybe you can make comments that are truthful. Let us stop the poor poor yeshieva thing. I could care less if there were ten public school children. The money is going to them first. Sorry called law, get over it and deal with it, and stop whining about what you are not getting. Stop telling me how you have the community behind you. Keep austerity going we don't care. You know why? When we are so broke, I guess special services will not be given on site anymore, we actually will audit book money going to the yeshievas, and we will go to actual written law on busing, and most of us will have to drive our children to school. (check nys website) I encourage you to keep austerity going. Be careful what you wish for, you just might win.
anon 12:44/12:58, I can't believe you are defending the right of public school students to have free art, music, sports, etc. when it increases the tax burden of everyone, not just private school parents but non-parents, empty nesters, and the elderly as well. If you value these activities so much, pay for them yourself! That's why they are called extracurriculars, because they are not part of the curriculum.
can't believe you are defending the right of public school students to have free art, music, sports, etc. when it increases the tax burden of everyone, elderly as well.
It is called public school. Check out all districts in New York and the United States. I don't even have an answer to that except thank you, for giving your opinion. When the public school parents finally file a lawsuit, comments like yours will definitely show where and how the community feels. Oh and by the way, those empty nesters can speak for themselves, my neighbor being one, the voted for the budget, knowing, art ,music, sports, well round a child, and not sixteen hours of education a day. It is good the truth is coming out, why should our children have music, art, etc, because we can, and no matter how much you cut, we always will. Remember, public school budget. Public school board, District 15, all public, not yesheiva district 15
free art, music, sports, etc.
These so called free things have helped thousands of children get into college, and offer scholarships. I don't want to and do not have to pay for these things. If you don't like it move, I think Lancaster Pa is perfect, all work no play, you would do quite well there. Plenty of property, No outside influences, take it over, build non taxable buildings, and hell get rid of the amish, or hey you can use them to build, I mean aren't they experts at brick???
Remember, public school budget. Public school board, District 15, all public, not yesheiva district 15
The actual name of the district is "Lawrence Union Free School District" and the board is the "Board of Education of the Lawrence Union Free School District" and their responsibilities are toward all students in the district.
As for those nasty Anon. commmenters who reared their heads over the last few hours, try to keep the nasty rhetoric away from the school board meetings, because targeting the majority of the board in public with this viciousness (as you may have participated in at the recent meeting) can only backfire.
"As for those nasty Anon. commmenters who reared their heads over the last few hours, try to keep the nasty rhetoric away from the school board meetings, because targeting the majority of the board in public with this viciousness (as you may have participated in at the recent meeting) can only backfire."
Sounds like we are back to threatening again!
As far as concessions ... I would guess in addition to all of the busing that is provided, the next or perhaps the largest concession would be the public school personnel who travel daily to different private schools to provide services. Prior to this accommodation, any child needing service was bussed to their public school ... Although much more cost effective,if my memory serves me correctly, private school parents did not want their chilren to do the travelling ... so the district offered them services in their own schools.
I sat here and read about all of the comments, I keep seeing us and I've decided that there will not be a bridge to a fresh start to finally put the bickering and mudslinging behind us all!
I think the opressed become the opressers! You reap what you sew.
I hear a bunch of people preaching HATE HATE HATE HATE!
Too bad those people preaching HATE can not think outside of the box and try to be tolerant of the world around them. This has nothing to do with religion but EVERYTHING TO DO WITH POWER!
I see history repeating itself. This community has always been a DIVERSE COMMUNITY. Our Schools have taught all children from all over the world. Rich, poor, different nationalities, etc. This District deservses to live! The HATE that is in this community is very upsetting because in all these comments very few have send that the children of both sides (Public/Non Public) deserve to be educated in an environment that is safe and allows them to achieve their full potential! This is a PARENT's first PRIORITY.
I've seen and heard the hate on both sides! If we all don't stop and realize that spreading this HATE will only give way to a new generation of HATE! HISTORY has shown us that we will raise a generation of closed minded people who will hate anyone who is different from themselves. Are we going backward instead of forwards.
Lets move into the future and all grow up and realize to make this community live into the future we all need to take the first step meeting eachother half way. This is how wars start. I don't want my children caring the weight of hatred.
As far as the differences between running a Private School vs. Public School, one major difference is that NYSED governs the way the public funds are allowed to be spent. This school must be run by their regulations. Private Schools can choose who can go to their school. Public schools educate everyone walking in their doors. Private schools may choose or even make-up the tests they plan to administer to their students. Public school must give the NYSED tests.
I hope that people start to learn some of the mandates and regulations which the Public Schools must operate with the budget that the community votes on.
All religions teach respect for all human beings. Can we start to act like mature adults and stop bashing each other and move forward.
To all of you anons (unless you are the same person - pick a name already, will ya?), particularly 11:01, who are citing "the law" as meaning that the new board can't decrease public school funding and increase private school funding (or maintain it, or whatever), please explain what is LEGALLY wrong with the following (purely hypothetical) scenario -
The board decides to lower funding of the public schools, cut certain programs,etc. but does not decrease any program below basic State mandated levels. At the same time, the board increases funding of permitted private school items (books, busing, special services) to the maximum allowable by law. Certainly Lawrence currently funds the public schools at a level higher than is necessary by law. Similarly, there is likely room to increase funding of private school services before running into legal limits. As such - I fail to see how enacting any budget that fits into the above format would run into legal problems (as opposed to being undesirable on policy grounds), even if it does shift money from public schools to the private school students.
Note to Anon 11:01 - I am not a woman, and per the NY Court of Appeals decsion yesterday, I can't have a husband either.
"Somehow most of us private school students get by without any of these programs, and still manage to succeed in life. I had a very bare-bones curriculum for secular studies and have done just fine, thank G-d."
Ok so let's start talking about the children again. This quote illustrates that this private school constituent (and possibly more ) do not understand that children who come from homes with parents who support them educationally and otherwise will most likely do well in life, as the above person states. What upsets me more than antything in this whole discussion is that most of the people out there have no idea how many poor and indigent children we have in the public schools who come from homes where they are not supported by two parents or even one. They simply do not have the support and encouragement from home (or even food on the table)to be successful in life. The person writing this, and the majoirty of the private school students, have come from homes where this is not a problem. For those children who come from homes not as fortunate, the public schools and their programs, yes art and music included, are the ONLY way they may be able to make something out of themselves in life. For many of the children, the school, with falling tiles and unsafe auditorum, is the ONLY safe haven they have. Where is the empathy of the private school community for these unfortunate children (and we have many,many of these childen). What ever happened to our upbringing where we have learned through our religion and our parents that we must help out those who are less fortunate (even if they are not Orthodox!) Just remember this. Every time you vote down a budget that is less than the state's austerity budget, or that will cause one of these children to lose soemthing they need so badly, you are hurting the weakest of the weak who have no advocates other than us!! Educate yourselves about what our public schools do....all that many of you know is what YOU grew up with, not the reality of the many, many children in our public school district who do not and will never have half the chances you had. The public schools are their only chance and it is so sad that there are many who don't care. You can rationalize all you want about voting against the budget, not the kids, but that is just burying your head in the sand.
$25K per year per child isn't enough money to help a child make something of his or herself? It would be, I'm sure, if it were spent properly. If $25K isn't helping, what *IS* going to help? And don't try to tell me the self-esteem problem is caused by ceiling tiles from the auditorium. Nobody buys that explanation. Maybe some of these supposedly less fortunate children should take a tour of NYC public schools so they can meet some really poor kids who are trying to make something of themselves.
And how many art and music scholarships to college are offered, anyway? I would love to know how many Lawrence HS graduates received athletic scholarships to colleges this year... who can tell me the number? By the way, in the majority of districts, parents pay extra for uniforms and busing for athletes to games.
By the way, if you are looking for empathy, anon 4:58, maybe ask the teachers to take a pay cut because the kids really need their help... bahahaha.
parents pay extra for uniforms and busing for athletes to games.
No they don't one district athletic program was cut and parents were allowed to raise money. Our district won't let us fund raise.
$25K per year per child
The figure is far less than that. Unfortunately years ago when the budget first failed, we let 45 of the last hired teachers go. The teachers get paid a lot because, they have been teaching for a while. Also, some of these teachers have been placed in private schools to provide services for special education
Similarly, there is likely room to increase funding of private school services before running into legal limits.
There is no legal way to increase funding to private schools. Please go on the New York State web site and read the Non Public School manual. Legally, there is no way. What is it you would like increased. More special education. The children denied (as well as the public school) have not qualified. Yes the rejection rate is less in the public schools, because most parents who can take there kids privately. Privy to a conversation where I listened to two women explain to me how they moved from upstate to our district since they heard the yeshievas have a "deal" with the district and we give the most... That about sums it up.
Anon 5:53, I'm going to ignore the factual, spelling and grammatical errors in your post. I'm even going to ignore your belief that firing teachers increases, rather than decreases, cost per pupil. However, it is disturbing to me that you say 'we give the most' as if you were the one giving. It is the taxpayers who are giving the money, not you personally.
Mahopac schools end sports, clubs
By DIANA BELLETTIERI
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original Publication: June 30, 2006)
MAHOPAC — The Mahopac Board of Education last night stuck to its guns and adopted a $95.8 million contingency budget that does not fund sports or extracurricular clubs.
The board also eliminated 13.5 positions from its initial $98.6 million proposal to keep the spending increase under 4 percent, as mandated by state education law.
An estimated 500 people crowded the auditorium of Lakeview Elementary School to learn of the final plan and to hear what a community coalition formed after the budget defeat would do next.
One parent, 47-year-old Monica Wyka, said it was a sad day for the children.
"The taxes here are huge," said Wyka, a sales representative and caterer. "But you know what? If you want a Blue Ribbon School of Excellence for your child, then you have to pay."
The eliminated positions include 3.8 administrators, 4.4 high school teachers, one elementary school teacher, 2.3 special-education positions, a library aide and a secretary.
Instead of cutting an academic team at the middle school — which had initially been proposed — school officials trimmed spending on repairs, supplies, equipment and other noninstructional expenditures.
Savings also resulted from eliminating adult education, cutting back on books and supplies for the library and reducing the amount for computer hardware.
Also, the district will not send students to the Walkabout alternative education program.
"The first priority is to maintain the integrity of our instructional program," Superintendent Robert Reidy said before presenting his plan. "Sports and clubs are absolutely critical for youth development. But they're not the core of the mission that we have."
A community coalition has been working on a strategy to keep clubs and sports in the schools — for a price. The coalition must raise a little more than $1 million to maintain all extracurricular activities.
At a meeting Wednesday, coalition leaders presented the school board with a preliminary plan that would call for charging varsity athletes $432 per sport, while junior varsity, freshman and middle-school athletes would pay $144.
Members of high school clubs — such as the yearbook, newspaper, drama and debate — would pay $169 to participate in each club.
Even parents of younger children may have to pay a surcharge of $25 to participate in the Mahopac Sports Association, according to the proposal.
Last night, school board and coalition leaders strongly emphasized that these numbers are not absolute and are contingent upon participation, fundraisers and other unforeseen circumstances.
The MSA will meet at 7 p.m. July 7 at the Mahopac Public Library to complete the plan.
Already, the numbers have shifted. Larry Garris, a parent who coaches the modified hockey team, said he would donate his $2,200 stipend to the coalition.
"I challenge all the coaches in the room to do the same," he added.
Karen Derby, a mother of three music and theater performers, said she wants parents to get together and discuss the most equitable way to fund the programs.
"I think a large part of the problem we're having now is that decisions are made by people who are seen as sitting on high, without having talked to the people who are really involved on the ground," Derby said. "And then the decisions are imposed on us, so to speak, and we feel like we didn't have any input."
And how many art and music scholarships to college are offered, anyway? I would love to know how many Lawrence HS graduates received athletic scholarships to colleges this year... who can tell me the number?
It doesnt matter how many scholarships are offered. That is irrelevant. (by the way, I know of at least 9-10 students at lhs that have athletic scholarships) Children are afforded the right to art, sport or music, and if he or she is talented enough to get a scholarship to a college, then more power to them. Just b/c your schools dont have sports, music or whatever, doesnt mean that the LPS shouldnt either. These extracurricular activities build character and integrity, maybe you should look into it!
Exactly. There are also those students who do not necessarily get athletic scholarships but the sports that they are involved in help them to get into better schools. Being named captain of a team shows leadership and the colleges love that!
What message are we sending our kids if they were all to read the comments in this blog. Hatred and accusations are the norm, no effort to get people talking in a civilized and constructive manner.
The last time this happened in our town, my fellow public school parents of the elementary schools wanted to keep the #2 school kids where they were. It was clear that NIMBY was the rule in our community. So glad to see that our hatred and personal prejudices are still as strong as they were 10 years ago.
That's why our community not only the schools are failing.
Mahopac schools end sports, clubs
By DIANA BELLETTIERI
Most of us would have not problem cutting our clubs, but they were already cut about two years ago. Adult programs cut three years ago. I agree no school repairs, let us let the roofs fall in. No sports on the weekend, closing all buildings and playgrounds. No use of gyms, during the week. I also think in the interest of fiscal responsibility, all special education services should be given at one of the elementry schools. We have almost 40 professionals servicing special education in the private schools. If the services were held in the public schools, we could cut those numbers there by saving money. We also need to go to the new york state limit on busing. My children are bused to there schools and I live .8 mile to school. Let us go to the 2mile limit. That will save money. I have no problem driving, and the amount of buses on the road are annoying.
ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of you, Public's and Non Public's need to grow up. We are talking about our kids, not a bottle of Milk.
I am in the middle. I have kids in both. All your bickering is very insulting. Instead of focusing on the issues that divide us, why not foucus on the issues that can join us and use that as a starting point for dialogue. But no, everyone on this blog needs to have the last word.
I have been following this blog for months.I have come to the conclusion that all the airplanes flying over the five towns have released some kind of pollutant that has rendered you all brain dead.
ANYN 2:29
Finally somone who sees the light
printed and framed. One of the most funniest posts to date. bravo
most funniest?
Anonymous said...
most funniest?
like is said " everyone on this blog has to have the last word" Enough already. Sinat Chinam only fosters more bad things
yes, funniest. sincerly.. at times you have to find some humour in all this or it gets too hatefull. don't you think?
I thought his comments were like totally awesome :)
Who is orthomom? Has she identified herself?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
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