Sexist Post
I'm sorry, but this is just infuriating. I have no problem with him expressing his views regarding being careful with co-workers of the opposite sex in the workplace, but to address this only to "Working Wives"? From the post, which answers a receptionist's questions on how to behave in the workplace:
But let's assume he's correct, and "working wives", not "working husbands", are the root of all marital infidelity(not likely), his attitude toward women is clear from his next tip:
Again, I have no problem whatsoever with a list of guidelines for married women and men to help prevent unprofessional or inappropriate relationships in the workplace, but this is not the way I'd like to see them presented. Is it just me?
I hate to say this, but the vast majority of marital complications that I've handled - and I'm referring to the messy ones, those which involve infidelity - sprouted from a seed of indiscreet intimacy at the working wife's workplace.The "working wife's workplace?" Surely he jests.
But let's assume he's correct, and "working wives", not "working husbands", are the root of all marital infidelity(not likely), his attitude toward women is clear from his next tip:
...To answer your question, your speech should be courteous and polite, but formal and official. Never call a man by his first name, and don't inquire about his life. Substitute "How are you, Sam?" for "How may I assist you, Mr. Stein". Keep the verbal exchange to a bare minimum that's required in your work as front-desk girl.Been a while since I've heard that phrase to describe a receptionist.
Again, I have no problem whatsoever with a list of guidelines for married women and men to help prevent unprofessional or inappropriate relationships in the workplace, but this is not the way I'd like to see them presented. Is it just me?
posted by orthomom at 8:20 PM
70 Comments:
Ugh.
In all fairness, he applied it to wives because it was asked by a wife. But I find it absurd that he thinks that the majority of marital problems come from wives behavior in the workplace. In my experience, some frum men tend to act much more inappropriately than any frum woman Iv'e ever seen.
Is it just me or does "How may I assist you, Mr. Stein" contain more sexual inuenndo then "How are you, Sam?"
No, it is NOT just you. The tone of this is appalling.
I am so happy to see others jumping on the Lazer is out to lunch bandwagon.
Well done, OM.
WOw, and this is a guy who survived for long time in the sphere without really offending anyone much.
Perhaps he just sed "working wices" cuz most wives work and most men are shteiging in kollel
Gee, my last "real" job was in an office where I was the boss. We're not all front-desk girls, Lazer. Oh, excuse me, Mr. Brody.
Is he time-traveling from the 1950s or something?
Worse -- do people actually listen to this man??
now why is that...
when he would say something i thought was "a little out there" i just ignored him.
Yet when heshy says things that are out there it can nget infruiating?
anywho, the "letter" was signed by a wife so naturally he adressed wives
I have no problem even with him just addressing wives, in answer to this woman's question, though it could have been used as a nice opportunity to address men as well. I DO have a problem with his claim that "the vast majority of marital complications that I've handled- and I'm referring to the messy ones, those which involve infidelity - sprouted from a seed of indiscreet intimacy at the working wife's workplace." I just don't buy it.
As nigel tufnel said: "what's wrong with being sexy?"
V'hamaivin yavin.
He's an idiot -- he once wrote that no atheist could be moral, then deleted my comment when I wrote that Christopher Reeve was both.
I am still new to the Jewish blogosphere, but it seems to me that the good Rabbi is a tad neolithic when it comes to the battle of the sexes.
I am sursprised he did not recommend the "wife" eat the 3lb steaks for breakfast to discourage the advances of her boss.
Don't lose the message because you don't like the messenger. Men are dogs. They are always looking for ways to take advantage of women. Particularly in a working environment, they need to be kept at arm's length.
Lone Ranger speak for yourself.That is just as ignorant.
"Front-desk girl"? Yuck.
I agree: it's not the what, it's the how. I think there's nothing wrong with reminding ourselves that we (all of us, women and men alike) must dress and behave properly in the workplace, but I can think of much better ways to do it.
Regarding the remark that all men are "dogs": Like many women, in my life I've had men make off-color remarks to me, and occasionally worse. Of course I find such behavior offensive, but I wouldn't judge all men by those who don't know how to behave. I also know fine, decent men whose behavior is above all suspicion, but I wouldn't judge all men by them either. My way is to "respect and suspect" each individual until I know who and what I'm dealing with.
You are taking this out of context and are nitpicking.
The point he was making is that familiarity and closeness between married men and women, in the workplace especially, allows the seeds of infidelity to take root. Sure, not all will develop into trees, but there is always that potential.
Nobody can argue with that.
As I read the author's letter, I felt disturbed, and now I realize why. A closer look at it shows that something more sinister than how to fend off co-workers' unwelcome advances may be going on here. Let's look carefully at the author's language:
"My husband and I have been in question about my workplace ..."
What exactly does "in question about my workplace" mean? And how often do we hear that phrase used in that specific context? To my mind this is the author's very diplomatic way of saying that her husband has been pressuring her to quit her job, or perhaps not work outside the home in general.
"My husband, and rightfully so, sometimes feels that I should be less talkative with my men coworkers."
Despite the author's best efforts to be diplomatic and conciliatory toward her husband ("and rightfully so," "sometimes"), what comes across here is that her husband is jealous, does not trust her and is trying to control her behavior when she is away from home (i.e., out of his sight).
"My husband says I'm naive and he's not so convinced that everybody's intentions are honorable."
Even if the husband's gloomy assessment of people's intentions is accurate, most adults are capable of judging such things quite well by themselves. The tone and style of the author's writing indicate that she is a mature adult who is able to make sound judgments on her own.
Nevertheless, her husband tells her to her face that she is "naive." Such a label used by one adult to another is insulting and demeaning because it implies that the one being called naive is immature, inexperienced and incapable of sound judgment. Calling another adult naive is also a way to undermine his or her self-confidence. Effectively, the author's husband is saying that he knows better than she what goes on in her workplace -- and he's not even there!
The tone and content of the author's letter give me the impression that the husband doesn't trust his wife out of his sight and is pressuring her to quit her job. Her letter to Rabbi Lazer is possibly a last-ditch effort to placate him. ("See? Even Rabbi Lazer has no problem with my working outside the home. He even provides guidelines on how to do it properly, so it must be permitted according to halakha.")
Of course, I have no proof of this, nor do I know the people involved. But in my opinion, a close reading of the author's letter makes such a scenario look plausible at the very least.
It seems to me that in his reply, Rabbi Lazer would have done better to address the husband's jealousy and lack of trust in his wife rather than the wife's behavior at her workplace.
nope not just you.
The best way to avoid improper anyhting between co workers is to come in just on time and leave(alone) just on time.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Woman barricaded in home
That's another way to prevent these problems, Al.
I totally agree, Mirty. But by husbands as well. I reject that it is soleley a working woman's problem.
To quote a Satmar housewife, who once asked my wife: "Does your husband work?"
Maybe where LB comes from, only women work in the first place.
Generalizing is always dangerous. I've heard of several instances in our community where husbands have had affairs with coworkers. And I suspect that if there's a problem with a person, or a marriage, that keeping on a formal name basis isn't the solution. On the other hand, if a person is unhappy at home, and he/she develops an increasingly familiar relationship with someone of the opposite sex, somewho who provides comfort and laughter and validation....
Tricky stuff.
One of my short stories, "Bitter Waters" -- a modern version of the Sotah -- deals with a man who suspects his wife of infidelity. Sometimes suspicion, even unwarranted, can lead to disaster.
Doesn't Lazer watch "Desperate Housewives" or "Oprah"? It's perfectly possible, and perhaps common, for women who do not work to have affairs. I needs to get me a gardner ;)
I used to dress "regally" in a modest suit for work. I also (pre-BT days) would sometimes wear a mini-skirt with high heels. Never made a difference in how men related to me. If they were "nice" guys, they were polite and nice regardless of what I had on. If they were slimedogs, they were slimedogs whether I was in mini or royal.
If I ever said, "How may I assist you, Mr. Stein?" I'd have been branded a snob, definitely not a "team player" and would probably have lost the job. Only once in my 25 years in the workplace have I ever worked anywhere where the employees did NOT call each by first name. And then, it was just the executives. Sheesh.
Uh...whatever. I want to know when this dude last had an office job, and if he was ever a 'front-desk boy'.
I've done that job, and honestly, there is NO problem with not having an affair with your boss or coworkers. NONE. I broke all the rules. I called people by first name. I didn't have a picture of the Chofetz Chaim. I may have worn red lipstick at times.
Somehow, I got through all this with no indiscreet intimacy happening. The question is not whether this woman's office is decent, it's whether her marriage is sound.
If the men in our society would like the ladies to return home, than perhaps they should sheig away at work like my loving husband.
If the men in our society would like the ladies to return home, than perhaps they should sheig away at work like my loving husband.
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