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Friday, February 03, 2006

Racist or Reasonable?

There's a piece in the NY Times today that points out some opposition by the almost completely homogeneously Ultra-Orthodox and Hassidic neighborhood of Borough Park to the plan for a public school to be moved to the neighborhood. The school will apparently service a large demographic of black and hispanic. Some of the points made in the article against the school by community members and leaders sound legitimate, like this one:
And the plan for the new school has angered community leaders, who say that any one of the neighborhood's yeshivas would be thrilled to buy the building for a fair price.

"The yeshivas are bursting — every time you turn around, there's more going up, and boy, would our community like to get those schools that are empty," said Assemblyman Dov Hikind, a Brooklyn Democrat who represents the area.
That seems like a very fair point. Anyone who has ever driven through Borough Park, the "baby boom capital of NYC" when school is letting out, has likely seen the hordes of Yeshiva age children boarding the buses. It's also not hard to extrapolate how overcrowded the schools must be in a neighborhood as built out as Boro Park, where every square foot of property seems to be covered by some sort of structure. Though I'm not sure of the legal issues of selling a public school building for use as a private school, especially when the space is needed for public school students, I am sure the building would be of great use to the Borough Park Orthodox community.

However, the exclusionist tone of the other points made against the school really irks me. Said Dov Hikind:
He said of the neighborhood: "It is basically Hasidic, and one of the things in good government is you adjust to the changes. It's such an obvious thing to recognize, that our community is what it is. It is a wonderful community, a taxpaying community, it is a community of one of the lowest rates of crimes." He added, "We'd like to keep it that way."
I'm sure you would. He goes on:
Soon, he said, fliers were being distributed at synagogues and in the streets, urging residents to protest the plan at meetings of the local Community Education Council.

"These students will be imported from out of Boro Park and will have to walk through our streets during many hours of the day," read one such flier. "Can't you shudder to think what will become of our peaceful neighborhood?"
God forbid the residents of Borough Park should have to share their streets with outsiders in the free country of the USA. Nuts. Even more troubling is the headline and wording of yesterday's article on the subject in the Ultra-Orthodox daily Hamodia:
Shock, Anger Greet Boro Park High School Plan
...Neighborhood residents were livid over the plan, voicing their fears of the "impending deterioration of the quality of life" in the area.

One mother shared her anxiety with Hamodia: "I'm absolutely petrified. I won't be able to send my children to the grocery store or let them go to their friends on their own. They won't be safe coming home from school."
One would think from the fear the community is expressing the proposal concerns a community jail being built in the neighborhood, not a secondary school. Todays headline of Hamodia is even nuttier:
Kehillah Leaders Meet to Address Local Crisis
Crisis? This is a crisis? There are sick, impoverished people in our midsts, and this is how they define a crisis? The mind boggles. More choice bits about what was discussed at the meeting from today's Hamodia article:
Over and over again, Rav Rosenblum stressed that the crisis was all about the immoral alien cuture that was about to be imported into our insulated neighborhood, a unique and pure environment...He recommended that mothers in particular get together to express their pain and fears directly to the mayor, pointing out how this plan could destroy the entire value system they work so hard to imbue in their children.
Best graf:
When Hikind tried to calm the assemblage by describing the student body in question as highly scholastic and motivational youths who would not destroy the complexion of the neighborhood, Harav Epstein objected strongly and insisted that, notwithstanding their scholastic achievments, these youths would bring an unprecedented level of pritzus into the community that we could not accept.

Wow. I don't believe comment from me is even necessary on this one.

One additional point in the Hamodia piece that was made by local critics of the plan is that the government would bend over backwards to "preserve the homogeneous cultures like those in Amishtown". This is a ridiculous argument. If the residents of Boro Park would like to pick themselves up and move to a country setting in Central Pennsylvania or Ohio, as the Amish have done, their chances of being "infiltrated" by a (gasp) public school would probably be considerably lower. However, choosing to live in the middle of New York City significantly maximizes their cheances of "intrusion". It's been done before - see: Kiryas Yoel. Ain't nobody building a public school in that Orthodox neighborhood.

Bottom line, I am troubled by the exclusionist tone of the community. This is America, and smack in the middle of one of the most heterogenous cities in the world. Let's be reasonable, and choose our words a bit more carefully.

47 Comments:

Blogger Robbie said...

But the issue here is that people who don't look like "us" are inherently dangerous.

9:58 AM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

What is shocking is the complete lack of any perspective in the views expressed. What about Williamsburgh, where Satmars live shoulder to shoulder with Hispanics and exiles from the punk rock scene? They seem to be doing just fine. And turn the clock back on borogh park a mere ten or fifteen years when many parts dominated by Chasidim were fairly diverse. Not two long ago, the buidling that is now the Ateres Chaya hall and a chasidish school was a public school.

I think the Chasidim of BP are letting their dominance get to their head.

Maybe I have a braoder problem with the whole ghetto mentality. Isn't the whole point of living the life of Torah u'Mitzvos is to act as a paragon to the rest of the world? How can this be done in insular enclaves? Or with leaders that express such intolerant views? Doesn't the pasuk say:

Observe therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, that, when they hear all these statutes, shall say: 'Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.'

OK. I'm done. Carry on.

9:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you all miss the BP'ers point. I doubt that it is mere exclusionism; if the school in question would be peopled by Koreans or Italians it wouldn't get half the attention it's getting. The issue is that BP'ers feel a throng of (presumably) loud, vulgar, low class Black people will disturb their peace and harass their kids. Right or wrong, that is what's going on.

10:06 AM  
Blogger Just Passing Through said...

Great post Mom!

One thing struck me here. Hikind: "..our community is..a wonderful community, a taxpaying community...". I almost choked on my yogurt.

10:16 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

The problem is the UO community has never met an issue they didn't frame in hysterical, over-the-top terms. They need better PR and more intelligent, less reactionary leaders. Because they have neither, they have taken a legitimate gripe and turned it into a farce.

I guarantee there was a way to resolve this to everyone's satisfaction. I am less sure now.

10:22 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

anony said: "I think you all miss the BP'ers point. I doubt that it is mere exclusionism; if the school in question would be peopled by Koreans or Italians it wouldn't get half the attention it's getting. The issue is that BP'ers feel a throng of (presumably) loud, vulgar, low class Black people will disturb their peace and harass their kids. Right or wrong, that is what's going on."

anony -- No one misses the point. We all get it. But didn't your mother ever teach you that you don't have to say everything you think?

10:24 AM  
Blogger Yamamah said...

The goal of the BPers -- to keep a bad element out of the community -- is one that most communities would endeavor to accomplish. As you pointed out in your post, and as already demonstrated in this comment thread, sometimes the issue is knowing what to say and what not to say.

If Lawrence homeowners did nothing wrong in successfully lobbied to keep a potential new shul off their street in order to maintain their quality of life, certainly BPers can not be faulted for attempting to do the same in these circumstances. If they would only learn that words have consequences...

10:55 AM  
Blogger The Town Crier said...

Who will work in the catering halls if no goyim can walk through boro park?

10:59 AM  
Blogger The Town Crier said...

BTW backwards shtetl mentality is sick. Is this a self imposed ghetto?

10:59 AM  
Anonymous Essie said...

Crisis? This is a crisis?

OrthoMom, don't you know that everything in the hareidi world is a crisis these days?

Bottom line, I am troubled by the exclusionist tone of the community. This is America, and smack in the middle of one of the most heterogenous cities in the world. Let's be reasonable, and choose our words a bit more carefully.

I am in total agreement.

11:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

U know OM, u are not helping by publishing the comments that were in Hamodia. Hamodia is not published online, it is a newspaper that is solely for consumption of the Orthdox community. These commenst were only meant for the community to hear. U are perpetuating the chilul hashem by posting them. u only have yourself to blame.

11:43 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

U know OM, u are not helping by publishing the comments that were in Hamodia. Hamodia is not published online, it is a newspaper that is solely for consumption of the Orthdox community. These commenst were only meant for the community to hear. U are perpetuating the chilul hashem by posting them. u only have yourself to blame.


(deep breathing exercises to stay calm)

Ok, anon. First of all, the paper is sold all over Brooklyn, and can be purchased in newstands all over the 5 Towns. If that's not public consumption, then what is? This meeting was not exactly off the record. It was a large gathering, where many people, including elected officials, were present. If the people making the statements would not have wanted them published then they shouldn't have made them. If they are chillul hashem for anyone outside of your insular community to hear, then it is a chillul hashem to say them. Period. If something is published in a paper with a circulation that is as large as Hamodia's, I consider it fair game to post.

I am not the problem here, anon. Corrupt thought processes like the one you are espousing is part of it, though.

11:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't see what the BP'RS are complaining about .The Polish and Hungarian goitas who they welcome into their homes are much worse than any public school kids.

12:35 PM  
Anonymous SIM said...

Two great posts in one day!
While I agree with you in general,I don't really have a problem with Harav Epsteins comment. If pritzus is a matter of how people dress and talk and seeing handholding/kissing etc. in public - well the kids in BP will see more of that. I have more of a problem with parents terrified to send their kids to the store. What do they think will happen? Will the BY girls suddenly roll down their socks (chas v'shalom)! Or will the boys try to talk to the girls? Do they really think a bunch of middle school kids will be violent?
Even if all of these things will happen, the BP community needs to realize what a terrible name they are giving to Orthodox Jews when they can't be more careful with their words.
To an extent, I think the problem is that they are so used to talking this way among themselves that they don't even know it is no longer acceptable. (Like goyta, shvartze chaye, etc.

1:10 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

these youths would bring an unprecedented level of pritzus into the community

How about moving to Bnei Brak?

1:16 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

it is a newspaper that is solely for consumption of the Orthdox community

Sorry, but information wants to be free. Welcome to the 21st century.

1:17 PM  
Anonymous rachel said...

OMom, you're being far too kind. This isn't exclusionist, it's (ridiculously) thinly-veiled racism, and it's gross.

1:33 PM  
Anonymous To the Moon said...

"The yeshivas are bursting — every time you turn around, there's more going up, and boy, would our community like to get those schools that are empty," said Assemblyman Dov Hikind, a Brooklyn Democrat who represents the area.

or, the current 5 Towns phenomena: the UO does everything in its power to undercut the existing public schools so that they can eventually get them when they become empty.

2:02 PM  
Blogger StepIma said...

This is just ridiculous. And it's impossible to read it and not know exactly what they're saying. It's horrible.

And for what it's worth, I grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which pretty much is "Amishtown" (which by the way is an extremely insulting term in and of itself). While they're right that they would never plop a school down in the middle of the community, they absolutely would and do run roads and power lines (and lately cell-phone towers, from what I understand) when suburban growth makes it necessary - because the price of land is so high, there are always farmers willing to sell. Not to mention selling farms to planned communities which become more suburban sprawl (with all the attendant noise and traffic problems) practically overnight. The Amish community lives surrounded by the modern world, and for all I know doesn't like it. But they keep to themselves. They accept it. Other than a huge protest when the government started to require them to put reflective shields on the back of their buggies, and occasional stories about fights against immunizations, I don't ever remember a public protest from the Amish community about anything while I was there. And those have to do with direct intrusions on their religious practices. Not outsiders coming in forced contact with them.

I wish the people protesting in Boro Park could understand how awful they are making all of us look - IMO, this is exactly the sort of attitude that led to the Crown Heights riots.

2:18 PM  
Anonymous shmutzy said...

I can't understand how a people who have been so persecuted can be so rascist.

6:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

stepima.Please explain how this attitude led to the crown heights riots.I thought it was an auto accident.

12:12 AM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

One has to ask the residents of Boro Park why they have so little confidence in their own way of bringing up their children that they feel so threatened by seeing non-Jewish high school children? (Noting the irony that many of us bring non-Jews into our homes to take care of our children. Also noting the fact that families in other big cities with large Yeshivish populations see non-Jewish high schoolers right in their own midst and have many more interactions with non-Jews and still manage to raise very frum kids who then decide they want to go learn or support it long term).

One must also ask why why a community that does not want outside influences has placed themselves so permanently in the least wholesome city in th U.S.?

8:40 AM  
Blogger StepIma said...

It was an auto accident, pure and simple. There was no reason for any rioting. But the black community had for years been under the impression that the chassidic community had been given preferential treatment by the cops, and more importantly, that when the accident happened, that the chassidim involved were more interested in the welfare of the uninjured drivers than the wounded children (Hatzalah got to the scene first and while I'm pretty sure they treated everyone - I'm not certain, but I hope so - the impression was there that it was Jews come first).

Sometimes separatism is just separatism. But when it's tainted by members saying they want to be separate so as not to be corrupted, I think it's no wonder if it breeds resentment. That doesn't make the resentment right. But it's not surprising.

10:32 AM  
Blogger turquoiseblue said...

I think the fact that the kids are being "imported" from other areas - that BP'ers do have a legitimate concern - and reason for protesting this. Obviously if these kids lived in the area - it would be *ridiculous* and racist etc...

I grew up near a public school - and you guys have no idea what happens comes 3:00. It's like a ZOO opens its doors... I would not let my kids play outside even WITH ME THERE.

AND I believe this new school plan includes "staggered dismissal" - meaning hourly - from 2:00 until 5:00 - it's groups of kids (that mostly look and act like, or are, gangsta teens)swarming all over the place - YELLING, damaging anything in sight, making out (on YOUR doorstep - they have absolutely no regard to property ownership - and if you do have in mind to call the police - don't bother - they're gone when they arrive)...

So although I might have a problem with some of the wording, I can absolutely understand their concern.

12:25 PM  
Anonymous Cardash said...

God forbid the residents of Borough Park should have to share their streets with outsiders in the free country of the USA. Nuts One would think from the fear the community is expressing the proposal concerns a community jail being built in the neighborhood, not a secondary school

Orthomom - I agree completely with Torquoise. There is a middle school about a block away from me in flatbush with most of the kids living outside the neighborhood. You would not believe what goes on when they are dismissed. These kids act like wild animals and have no respect for anybody or anything. You should see the cops (quite a few of them, some with bullhorns) trying to maintain order with the kids running into streets, overflowing neighboring stores, just causing a major disruption to traffic and causing quite a ruckus. I would not want my kid to have to walk through or pass that crowd on the way home from school or to the store.

Yes, we do live in America, but any chance you have to minimize interaction with people that act like that should be taken. I don't see the big deal.

I also can't see how its racist. Its a fact that these public school kids are animals. I see it every day. If you dont believe me you obviously havent seen a public school dismissal recently. Or you are very lucky and live in a neighborhood with a decent school. Every time someone complains about something it becomes a race issue.

10:25 PM  
Anonymous Fed Up said...

"I don't see what the BP'RS are complaining about .The Polish and Hungarian goitas who they welcome into their homes are much worse than any public school kids."

THIS WAS THE MOST BRILLIANT THOUGHT I'VE ENCOUNTERED IN A WHILE!

Your comment illustrates the stupidity and hypocrisy that is rampant in the UO community. They raise their children with empty, un-Torahdike values; that is why they are scared to expose them to the world! What you mentioned is a million times worse. How the heck can anyone (let alone a chosid!!!) employ a Jew-hating Pollack to practically live with them in the home.

As a previous poster mentioned, I too have lived near a public school in Brooklyn (as a matter of fact, right next door) and have witnessed, first-hand, the sub-human behavior exhibited by these criminals-in-the making. Often, their low-life behavior is magnified when they pass an obvious orthodox Jew - they act l'hachis. And these kids were in elementary school!

Below the surface, however, I am gloating and almost hoping the public school will be situated in BP - finally the residents of BP will wake up and realize that they don't own NY and they are indeed in galus (and way too comfortable here in the USA) despite their lavish lifestyle and gross disregard for society in general. The statements by their community spokespeople was pure chutzpah Shame on you and have some class!!!! There was a better way to go about your selfish agenda!

10:39 PM  
Anonymous charliehall said...

I have to agree that the attitudes expressed here do Jews no good. Here in the Bronx, the Jewish community has worked very hard and has been successful at achieving good relations with the Black, Latino, and Italian communities. As an example, an Orthodox Rabbi sponsors the borough's semi-official Martin Luther King day ceremonies in his shul. We aren't all Modern Orthodox -- Riverdale hosts the Telse Yeshiva and a Chasidic steibel. And somehow we avoid going off the derech, in spite of rowdy public school kids.

12:14 PM  
Anonymous BP girl said...

Having grown up on the outskirts of BP, I have witnessed public school students harassing boys with yarmulkas on a regular basis on the city buses and streets. As a girl, I was cursed, mugged and had stones thrown at me on the way home from school by public school students. This is a physical safety issue, and BP residents are right to be concerned. Public schools should be located closer to where their "constituents" live.

1:38 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

As a born-and-bred Boroparker, i see somewhat what they're saying (although i think they're being very bigotted and paranoid about it). Boropark is a very very Jewwy place, and that's an environment the people like. There used to be a big problem with people coming in from other neighborhoods and committing crimes until the Hhasidim stormed the police station and forced them to do their jobs.

On the other hand, hhasidic school children can be just as bad as non-jewish public school children. Every day taking the B11 back from Flatbush to BP i would see hordes of little yeshiva kids making horrible hhilul hasheim as they pushed their way up the back entrance to the bus, avoiding having to pay or show their bus passes.

2:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're comparing physically attacking young children with sneaking onto a bus (which, BTW, public school kids do as well)?
It's a chillul hashem - no argument there, plus some other avairos, but that's not a good enough reason to say "hasidic school children can be just as bad as non-jewish public school children". Jewish children (and adults) are petrified to be near many of these public school products. Even non-Jews don't like these kids. But none of them fear getting harmed by yeshiva kids. Real nice, Steg.

4:37 PM  
Blogger Shevy said...

Yes, there is a big difference between middle school kids walking through the streets and adults. Try to imagine a group of public school guys pass a group of chassidish boys. I bet you they will have lots of incidents if this plan gets implemented.

Anti-semitism exists. That is a fact everyone will agree on. Kids will be kids and bully each other, on the streets, on the buses. etc.

I do understand that some of the comments made by political leaders were made with no tact whatsoever. I also agree that many mothers with children are probably reacting a bit strongly (ex. I'll be petrified to send my kids to the store), however, there are some valid points made as well.

8:10 PM  
Blogger debka_notion said...

If they're so totally worried, then why don't they volunteer as mentors to these underpriviledged students? Jews are classically good at education- why not spread the value, and make the world a better place for themselves while they're at it? And they'd make a dramatic change in kids lives.

7:43 AM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

I tried to post this last night, but was unable to do so when the blogger system went down for maintenance. So, I'm trying again.

Those who are so worried and fearful of the general public in their area need to consider moving to a more wholesome area of the country where you do not have to face all of your fears. In addition, whether you like it or not, each city has a vibe and that vibe can wear off on you, so why live amongst what you hate?

2:01 PM  
Anonymous charliehall said...

'more wholesome area of the country '

Doesn't New York have the lowest violent crime rate of any large city in the US?

11:03 PM  
Blogger Stx said...

Debba_notion - Because if they did, commenters like these (that have nothing better to do with their time than bash the UO) would talk about how bad it is that the community was trying to help this public school kids when their own community needs so much work.

And in this case, I'd probably even agree with them.

8:09 AM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

Charlie, violent crime is not the only measurement for wholesomeness.

1:44 PM  
Anonymous charliehall said...

'violent crime is not the only measurement for wholesomeness'

Agreed. Please suggest some other objective measures so we can compare. I think New York City compares favorably to most other US cities. In addition to the low crime rates, there is also less overt anti-Semitism here, with more tolerance of diversity. The main problem I see is rampant materialism but there are many parts of the US where it is even worse.

3:23 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

The way people act towards each other would be a measurement. Are the people generally honest? Do you get to know your neighbors?

There are many measurements, but none are so available like crime stats. I can think of many more wholesome places to live as a Jew or as a non-Jew.

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can anyone be surprised by the ugly response of a group that, by design, goes against the ideals of integration on every possible level imaginable?
(We are inherently different so THEY are inherently different!)

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