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Wednesday, May 17, 2006

Election Wrap-Up

There's a piece in Newsday about the Lawrence elections, which basically wraps up the whole situation.

This quote from present school board member Pam Greenbaum basically sums up the consensus I've been hearing today from both sides:
"...the people have obviously spoken. ... It's yours now, do what you have to do and see if you can do it better."
Most people, whether saddened, angered, resigned to, or excited by the prospect of the makeup of the newly elected school board, seem to feel that the new members have taken on an awesome responsibility to serve all our district's children responsibly. I sincerely hope that by this time next year, the board will have regained the trust of the voters, and the whole community together will be taking satisfaction in the passage of the 2007-2008 proposed budget.

98 Comments:

Blogger thekvetcher said...

interesting isn't it. orthodox jews banding together to stand up for a cause. is it any different than a protest by chassidim in what they believe in?

double standard or zionist propaganda?????????

11:27 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

"I'm helping the Yeshivas out....We're paying so much taxes here," Dubin said. "The majority of the community doesn't even use the public schools."

While I do understand the pain of the unbelievably high property taxes not just in Lawrence but in most of the suburbs of New York, I don't see how this helps the Yeshivas. And to object to paying for government services because I don't personally use them is not a responsble position for someone in a democracy to take.

I do wish the new school board all the best in re-unifying the community while improving both the quality and efficiency of the public schools.

11:43 PM  
Anonymous Somewhat Anonymous said...

"I don't see how this helps the Yeshivas. And to object to paying for government services because I don't personally use them is not a responsble position for someone in a democracy to take."

This helps the yeshivas because an Orthodox board will maximize the amount of school budget money that can be spent on them (Special Ed, bussing, books, etc.). This is different than saying I don't support say, public transportation because I don't use it. The school district and the taxes that support it were established to provide for the education of all of the district's children. Just because a child is not in the public schools does not reduce the obligation of the district to support that child's education - and that is in large part what this is about. Can you imagine the hardship all around if the orthodox kids were registered for public school?

By way of imperfect analogy, would you want to support, say, a food stamp program that did not allow people to use it for kosher food? Or would you oppose it until kosher food was allowed as well? It would be a government program that you didn't use after all.

12:32 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"While I do understand the pain of the unbelievably high property taxes not just in Lawrence but in most of the suburbs of New York, I don't see how this helps the Yeshivas. "Property taxes are high there is no income tax in Lawrence. Query : how many of Ortho' SD 15 fans would be in favor of an income tax to replace part of the property tax?-probably not too many?
BTW a house assessed for the same value in surrounding SD's pays more tases than those in SD 15 do. Reasons should be obvious.

"And to object to paying for government services because I don't personally use them is not a responsble position for someone in a democracy to take."

That in a nutshell what most "private school" parents believe. Of course, that is not our system of government.

6:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Basically wraps up the whole situation???

"Growing Orthodox Jewish community, which shuns public education, will look to cut taxes with newly won seats on school board"

"Avi Dubin, 25, who was born and reared in Woodmere and attended Yeshiva schools, was among those who voted against the budget on Tuesday. "For me, it's like a good deed," he said. "I'm helping the Yeshivas out." He said rabbis in the Orthodox Jewish community urged members to vote against the budget,"

""We're paying so much taxes here," Dubin said. "The majority of the community doesn't even use the public schools."

I still don't understand how voting the budget down is going to help?? Where are the cuts going to come from???? And I am so confident this new board will make cuts that affect the private schools too, i.e. field use.

7:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"BTW a house assessed for the same value in surrounding SD's pays more tases than those in SD 15 do. Reasons should be obvious."

please explain. Its not obvious to me.

7:58 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

""We're paying so much taxes here," Dubin said. "The majority of the community doesn't even use the public schools."

I still don't understand how voting the budget down is going to help?? Where are the cuts going to come from????"


It won't and I hope taxes don't go down. the public schools should be supported and the Five Towns should remain affordable to those who can afford to live here.

Taxes are high here because they're worth it. That being said, money should not be squandered and people should not be alienated just because they're different. If a child needs special ed services, he or she should be welcomed and accommodated equally and graciously, public or private school child alike.

I know that many in the Orthodox community have very silly, simplistic views of this issue, as do many public school parents; no one is under siege by a plotting, usurping Orthodox population and no one is getting the keys to a magical pot of money and services.

Nevertheless, the tone and rancor perpetuated by the old establishment is due for some change, and perhaps a touch of comeuppance.

I pray the new establishment will keep their perspective and actions balanced and work very hard for every taxpaying member of this community. We ALL deserve our fair share.

8:09 AM  
Anonymous SecularDad said...

I just hope all of you truly understand the responsibility that you have taken on. As I pointed out yesterday, the reason both of the private school candidates won was because a significant number of public school parents like me decided to support your candidates and we overcame the opposition of the elderly and retired who split their votes. This was particularly true for Uri Kauffman. Just look at the numbers and you can see that this is true. You are going to have to act responsibly for all of the children. You can not increase services for one group at the expense of another. I think you will find that this is going to involve an increase in the tax rate to accommodate both groups. I hope you can sell this, I am not so sure.

By the way I would hope Avi Dubin does not speak for all of you.

8:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can seculardad say increase SERVICES for one at the expense of the other. He simply ignores the concept of cutting expenses. There are half as many kids in public schools as in past years. By simply closing up schools and consolidating classes (yes and cutting teachers who make obscene salaries) this is accomplished. Oh yeah, the couple thousand dallors it costs to hire a yard keeper for the grounds & janitors for the gym will probobly cause a real increase to a $93 MILLION buget. And bussing for all pre1a children not currently getting bussing yeah we probobly can't find that in the $900,000 thats been saved with the #1 school closed.
Even if ALL this board does is NOT INCREASE the budget we'll be happy!

9:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can seculardad say increase SERVICES for one at the expense of the other. He simply ignores the concept of cutting expenses. There are half as many kids in public schools as in past years. By simply closing up schools and consolidating classes (yes and cutting teachers who make obscene salaries) this is accomplished. Oh yeah, the couple thousand dallors it costs to hire a yard keeper for the grounds & janitors for the gym will probobly cause a real increase to a $93 MILLION buget. And bussing for all pre1a children not currently getting bussing yeah we probobly can't find that in the $900,000 thats been saved with the #1 school closed.
Even if ALL this board does is NOT INCREASE the budget we'll be happy!

9:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can seculardad say increase SERVICES for one at the expense of the other. He simply ignores the concept of cutting expenses. There are half as many kids in public schools as in past years. By simply closing up schools and consolidating classes (yes and cutting teachers who make obscene salaries) this is accomplished. Oh yeah, the couple thousand dallors it costs to hire a yard keeper for the grounds & janitors for the gym will probobly cause a real increase to a $93 MILLION buget. And bussing for all pre1a children not currently getting bussing yeah we probobly can't find that in the $900,000 thats been saved with the #1 school closed.
Even if ALL this board does is NOT INCREASE the budget we'll be happy!

9:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can seculardad say increase SERVICES for one at the expense of the other. He simply ignores the concept of cutting expenses. There are half as many kids in public schools as in past years. By simply closing up schools and consolidating classes (yes and cutting teachers who make obscene salaries) this is accomplished. Oh yeah, the couple thousand dallors it costs to hire a yard keeper for the grounds & janitors for the gym will probobly cause a real increase to a $93 MILLION buget. And bussing for all pre1a children not currently getting bussing yeah we probobly can't find that in the $900,000 thats been saved with the #1 school closed.
Even if ALL this board does is NOT INCREASE the budget we'll be happy!

9:32 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

I typically don't trust the opinion of people not intelligent enough to post comments correctly. Anyone agree?

(secular dad, your comment is a bit specious. I somehow doubt that the only reason a different slate won is because you ALLOWED us to win. Who are you kidding?)

10:05 AM  
Anonymous SecularDad said...

Still wondering - I did not say we allowed you to win. I said public school parents like me helped you win and overcome certain opposition. How do you think Hatten got 5300 votes? The fact is I give your slate a lot of credit for running an outstanding well organized campaign. And as for Anonymous - 4 times, don't talk to me about budget cutting. Cutting budgets, particularly when dealing with contractual arrangements is not as simple as you think. This is the type of simplistic thinking that many of us public school parents are concerned about.

10:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm helping the Yeshivas out....We're paying so much taxes here," Dubin said. "The majority of the community doesn't even use the public schools


How exactly will it be helping the Ywshivas? Every single Yeshiva will no doubt be raising tuitions for next year(if not already done). There should be some commitee set up to review the budgets of all the Yeshivas!!!

1:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as I know, seculardad, the teachers are still working on a contract and if the buildings aren't run by the district with the authority to consolidate I think that should be looked into as well. Nothing in life is simple, but that doesn't mean it can't be done, and in SD15 it should be done!

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Somewhat Anonymous said...

The current system is such that Orthodox Jews CANNOT make use of a school system that is meant to educate all of the children. Why should they want to pay tremendous sums towards a system that cannot and will not meet their educational needs as well?

Note: School vouchers would go a very long way towards addressing this issue

2:07 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

'a food stamp program that did not allow people to use it for kosher food'

Here in Riverdale the Vaad requires food vendors it certifies to accept food stamps.

'cutting teachers who make obscene salaries'

I've been taught that resentment of someone else's prosperity is not good midot for an Orthodox Jew.

'There should be some commitee set up to review the budgets of all the Yeshivas!!! '

Maybe the Orthodox community should vote on the Yeshiva budgets?

'School vouchers would go a very long way towards addressing this issue '

First, the New York State Constitution explictly prohibits public support of religious education, so it would first have to be amended. And the public school parents will be very aggessive in voting it down because it will mean a tax increase for them.

Second, vouchers will mean government control of the religious schools -- curriculum, hiring, admissions, etc. There are three states in which there is direct public funding of private schools: Connecticut, Vermont, and Maine. In all three, the private schools that have accepted the funding essentially act like public schools. They have to accept all students and provide all the expensive special ed mandates -- and the subsidy they get from the government is much less than the tuition at most Orthodox day schools.

Third, if the voucher arrangement is that the school can continue to set its own tuition regardless of the voucher level, the schools will be very likely to increase tuition by the amount of the voucher. That is what happened when large amounts of government financial aid became available to students at private universities. Or, the government could say that if the school accepts the voucher it can't charge the student any tuition at all. That is the system in Connecticut, Vermont, and Maine. But could Orthodox Day Schools survive on the per-student funding that the public schools survive on?

BTW, no religious schools are currently part of the programs I mentioned in those three states.

2:36 PM  
Anonymous Somewhat Anonymous said...

Charlie Hall - the food stamp thing was an analogy, not an actual example.

I'm aware that vouchers are currently forbidden by the NY Blaine Amendment, I was just making a policy point.

As to the substance of your objections to vouchers- there is no legal/constitutional reason that the voucher could not be given to the parent to use as they chose without attaching significant strings beyond basic accrediation to the school that accepted it.

I'm not sure that tuition rates would indeed rise by the full amount of the voucher, although they might rise by a portion of it. This is because full tuition payment actually subsidizes scholarship kids, who will now be paying in the amount of the voucher (but you may be more cynical about yeshiva administrators than I am).

In any case, I think that even you would admit that the fact that Orthodox Jews (and others) effectively CANNOT make use of the public schools and must pay for their own education is a significant flaw in the public education system, even if you think it cannot be addressed by vouchers.

2:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Firstly, the quote by the Woodmere resident in the Newsday article should be a lesson to all- to watch your words when speaking for your community (even if you do so by default), and try to forsee how your words may be viewed by a larger audience. Do you seriously think that guy was the only person the writer spoke too? I assume not, but I'm sure his quote was the most sensational.

Secondly, though I did vote against the budget, and I am a product of the Yeshiva system, I do believe that having an academically strong public school system is in our community's best interests. Good public schools attract good neighbors and help to build good communities...but that doesn't mean I promote fiscally irresponsible management, or divisive campaigning that does not bode well for the future unity of the neighborhood- and intelligent public school parents, like seculardad, realize this too. Orthodox parents choose not to use the public school system, but still deserve to have their taxes go towards their children's education, and secular parents in this community deserve to have a strong school system for their kids as well. It certainly is a tall oder...good luck to the new board.

5:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know how many people have actually moved to Lawrence/cedarhurst/woodmere in the last 3 years that uses the public school?
My guess is that these 3 towns support inwood and atlantic beach.

So regardless we will not have a sense of community, because any non orthodox in their right mind would not pay top dollar to live amongst orthodox jews.

What is the benefit?
No friends,
no social events
outragous property tax

5:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We live in a community that is 1/2 Orthodox and 1/2 public school. Our public schools is very culturally diversified with many white, blacks and hispanics. Yet our school board is all Jewish.

Does that make sense??

5:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

make that NOT religious or NOT Jewish...

6:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you know that the Cedarhurst Little asked the Sunday Orthodox little league if their kids could join their league since the Cedarhurst League is so depleted.

Guess what the answer was....NO! We don't want your kids playing with your kids.

Did you know that Murray Foreman said at a Board meeting....'Why can't the kids from Inwood just go to Far Rockaway schools?'

6:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

your kids playing with our kids

6:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does the Cedarhurst Little League play on Sunday too? Look, inherent in our Orthodoxy is the fact that we are separated from others because of the laws we follow- but that should not stop us from creating cordial, friendly relations with our non-religous/non-Jewish/non-Yeshiva-going neighbors. I love living in this vibrantly Jewish neighborhood, but I appreciate diversity too.

7:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon you already lost the election. Now it's time for the annual lull in divisive rhetoric. Find another hobby and give the new board a chance.

7:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Find another hobby? This is not divisive rhetoric, this is the truth!

8:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Did you know that the Cedarhurst Little asked the Sunday Orthodox little league if their kids could join their league since the Cedarhurst League is so depleted.

Guess what the answer was....NO! We don't want your kids playing with your kids.

Did you know that Murray Foreman said at a Board meeting....'Why can't the kids from Inwood just go to Far Rockaway schools?'"


C'mon you already lost the election. Now it's time for the annual lull in divisive rhetoric. Find another hobby and give the new board a chance.

9:04 PM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

Looking at the vote in the Lawrence School District by polling sites brings out the obvious point that in general dissatisfaction with the school district is limited to the Ortho community.
Lawrence Middle School-smack in the middle of the wealthiest Ortho area for the budget 505 against the budget 2132
the next highest Ortho area Woodmere Number 6 school for the budget 814 against the budget 1464,
Lawrence HS a mixed area for the budget 725 against the budget 727.
Inwood with very few Ortho Jews for the budget 901 against the budget 114. Atlantic Beach for the budget 635 against the budget 150.
( I combined absentee ballots for my figures-taken from Larry Gordon's paper.
As can be seen outside of the Ortho areas the budget would have passed overwhelmingly-greater than the vast majority of school budgets did. Thus, the only reason that the budget failed is because of unity of Orthodox Jews-in protecting their pocketbook.

9:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mycroft,

It's clear that you have bone to pick and you make it quite obvious that you represent the segment of the community which enjoys taking potshots at the Orthodox community and their excercise of the fundamental democratic right to vote. Why not give your nasty comments a rest, and take a page from Seculardad's (and others above) playbook. You've fought to keep the Orthodox community off the board on the premise that they will destroy the public schools, even though they have never previously had the opportunity to prove otherwise. You've lost that battle, so why not clam it and give them a chance to prove themselves?

10:16 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Um, mycroft is Orthodox.

10:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see 2 choices, cripple the school system and save alot in taxes, or the board can manage the system carefully with everyones intererest and save a little money in taxes. I personally hope for the 2nd option. I hope that some of the people who made such efforts to change the school board, can also help the Yeshiva system. I dont think the new school board will affect Yeshiva tuition at all. The responsibility now is huge to do the right thing in SD15, I hope they are up to the challenge, only time will tell.

10:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I grew up in this community some fifty years ago. In the past it reflected a diversity of religion and race where neighbors were respectful and tolerant of the differences that existed. Taxes were always high compared to other neighborhoods. However, we prided ourselves on this strong sense of community and on our wonderful schools. A school budget was never defeated.My children went through the Lawrence Public School system. They received a superior education from an excellent and highly dedicated and skilled teaching staff. Community is a word that should not be taken lightly. I would hope that mutual respect engenders understanding and concern for one another and for our children. This must be a community that welcomes all people and all children and provides the appropriate monetary support for them to succeed.

11:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is now the job of our newly elected school board members to help pass future budgets. Their posters stated that they represent ALL children!

11:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is now the job of our newly elected school board members to help pass future budgets. Their posters stated that they represent ALL children!"

And here's a similar quote from Jordan Robbins in today's Newsday article:

"Now that they're running things, it seems to me they have an obligation to get the budget passed."

Can someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that trustees have any obligation to help pass budgets. In fact, I think it runs contrary to their fiduciary obligations to take any position on their proposed budget (though you might not know that if you've been watching the current board and superintendent). The voters have resoundingly spoken once again and the message is that throwing more money at the problem is not a viable solution. The board does not have any fiduciary duty to fleece the taxpayers for every last cent possible.

12:13 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"represent the segment of the community which enjoys taking potshots at the Orthodox community "

As mpmof4 writes I am Orthodox. I have no eef one way or the other on the LPS budget-I certainly have written many times that Ortho Jews have the right to use their democratic rights to vote as they wish.
What 1016 anonymous wrote besides being untrue about me-since I am Orthodox-shomer shabbos, day school parent/ go to a few shiurim a week. But one does not have to subscribe to certain tactical positions and certain political positions to be Orthodox.
A reader of other blogs can certainly tell by my comments wjere I fit in hashkafically in the Ortho community. It might surprise anonymous.

5:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Can someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that trustees have any obligation to help pass budgets. "

Are you kidding?!?! Why are they on the school board if they do not want the budget to pass?!?! Taking that stance would mean that they do not care about the education/safety/etc. and their position is strictly economic!

6:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mycroft said:
"Thus, the only reason that the budget failed is because of unity of Orthodox Jews-in protecting their pocketbook."
"one does not have to subscribe to certain tactical positions and certain political positions to be Orthodox."


With that in mind, I'm sure you can appreciate there is far more to voting down the budget than merely "protecting their pocketbook." This characterization is too similar to those formulated by ALPS and their supporters to be taken lightly. The reason why the budget has been consistently rejected is because so few people had the requisite confidence in the school board to spend the money appropriately. With a new board in place, I'm certain that a budget proposal would garner far more support than any of the previous ones.

12:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, I'm confused - when we are talking about the budget passing are we talking about the re-vote for this one (which the new board will not be in for yet, I believe) or for future years budgets?

Obviously the new board should be putting forth budgets in future years that can pass (and why wouldn't they?). I don't see why winning the election means that they should support a bad budget that they had no hand in crafting.

Or am I missing something here?

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You (anonymous 12:13) state that the board does not have any fiduciary duty to fleece the taxpayers for every last cent possible. I don't consider providing for the safety, education and welfare of the school population fleecing the taxpayers. It is ABSOLUTELY the duty of the school board to help pass budgets in order to provide all that is necessary. Costs rise for consumers in all areas. Why do you think the running of a school system should be exempt from inflation?

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is ABSOLUTELY the duty of the school board to help pass budgets"

Incorrect. A board's duty is propose a budget in the best interests of the district, and then sit idly as the voters decide whether they approve of the board's proposition. A board is not allowed to "help pass budgets."

Might I add that the current board has fallen short of its obligations on both of these.

12:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that all those who voted for the current board should stand behind the board's decisions and budget proposals since they did put their faith in them to carry out a responsible and appropriate budget. Why did you vote for them if you feel they cannot act responsibly? What you didn't address was my comment regarding inflation.

4:21 PM  
Anonymous Moshe Cederbaum said...

Ok, I'm confused - when we are talking about the budget passing are we talking about the re-vote for this one (which the new board will not be in for yet, I believe) or for future years budgets?

If we strip away all the rhetoric and acrimony of the past several years, it would appear that the debate - in reality - was focused on only three points (not necessarily in order of importance).

1) Dissatisfaction in the private school parent body over the real disparity in special education provided, measured as the discrepancy between the % of public and private kids served

2) Concern about an incredibly rich teacher's contract, especially when compared to the rest of Nassu County; and it doesn't matter how many "anonymouses" will argue this. It's documented and absolutely true

3) Unease - very understandable - within the public school community about the changing demographics and the attendant changes, from the "look and feel" of public education, to the changing face of Central Avenue. It can definitely be frightening.

By way of credentials: I have lived in the community for 14 years, and was - for several years - a member of the now defunct SD15 BOE Finance Sub-Committe.

And now to the budget. I'm convinced that previous budgets failed because the nay-sayers quite simply had no confidence that funds would be spent wisely. If you want to argue that this was largely the Ortho community, then - with board control in their hands - the revote for 2006/07 should easily pass!

Second, the biggest and hardest nut to crack for the new board is still the teacher's contract. To the best of my understanding, even without a contract, certain annual steps are guaranteed. However, certain dean positions and other perks are no longer automatic. I suspect it may take a couple or three years for this particular piece to be resolved.

That said, I also believe that from here on out, the budget will pass every time, and I firmly believe (be'emunah shleimah) that the new board will absolutely have everybody's best interest at heart.

And yes, seculardad is right: this new board has to prove itself to everybody.

Gut Shabbos.

4:50 PM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"The reason why the budget has been consistently rejected is because so few people had the requisite confidence in the school board to spend the money appropriately. "

Outside of the polling places of Lawrence Middle School and No. 6 school the budget passed overwhelmingly. Clearly-it is a matter of the Ortho community in SD 15 not willing to vote for any budget.

5:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I already heard the Board is planning to skip the revote and go straight to austerity. They figure the "nonpublics" will shoot down anything they suggest...and want to make sure the next year (4th year in a row on austerity) is a challenge for our new majority-controlled board.

5:57 PM  
Anonymous Moshe Cederbaum said...

"The reason why the budget has been consistently rejected is because so few people had the requisite confidence in the school board to spend the money appropriately. " my post

Outside of the polling places of Lawrence Middle School and No. 6 school the budget passed overwhelmingly. Clearly-it is a matter of the Ortho community in SD 15 not willing to vote for any budget. mycroft's post.

Mycroft - we're both right. The Ortho community was not willing to vote for any budget, because it had no confidence that the money would be spent appropriately.

And regarding anonymous 5:57 comment, it would be a shame to go straight to austerity, for the very reason that the Ortho community, now having control over the budget, should have confidence in its own elected representatives.

We can't have it both ways.

6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Moshe,

You're missing the point. The current board majority is fed up that they're "losing control" and, as a result, they are now considering "sticking it to the Orthodox board" by making sure the Orthodox board's hands are tied just as their's were. Essentially, they are contemplating going against everything they've screamed and yelled about for the last few years (i.e., the budget must be passed for the children) just for spite. For all those who haven't picked up on this until now, this consideration by the outgoing board really sums up why they need to be replaced so badly.

7:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, three years in a row, the board puts the budget up for a revote and it fails each year, wasting the money it costs to put it up a 2nd time. The budget fails again a 4th time by a large margain and the board finally decided to not waste more school money on an unsure and most likely an additional failure, now the orthodox is going to vote the budget? Working in the school the first thing I thought was I hope they don't put it up again, what a waste like the last 3 years. I truly doubt they are trying to "stick it to the Orthodox board".

8:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eliminate busing in district 15. It will save the district an enormous amount of money. East Rockaway has done without it for years and have managed quite well.

10:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Just because a child is not in the public schools does not reduce the obligation of the district to support that child's education"

The New York State Regulations are very clear about what a School District's responsibilites are with respect to a child's education who is not enrolled by the parent in public school. The District even had a State Education Dept. representative speak at a public Board meeting last year to explain that and answer any questions anyone had. Unfortunately for everyone, it was very sparsely attended. As the new Board members will learn, SD 15 provides everything (and more) for the non public school students in the areas of special ed, transportation, textbooks, etc. than probably any other district in New York State. Surely, the new candidates will want to provide even more. But what they will learn that much of their campaign promises could not be kept because it is illegal to give a gift of public money for many of the things they want to do for the Orthodox community.

10:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I already heard the Board is planning to skip the revote and go straight to austerity. They figure the "nonpublics" will shoot down anything they suggest...and want to make sure the next year (4th year in a row on austerity) is a challenge for our new majority-controlled board."

totally absurd. a simple look at recent history should tell you that the budget most likely wouldn't pass, and the board probably wants to save the money that would be wasted on another failed vote. a plot to make things difficult for the new board? give me a break! don't forget, it's about the kids!!

9:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Eliminate busing in district 15. It will save the district an enormous amount of money. East Rockaway has done without it for years and have managed quite well.


Just another perfect example of someone showing their ignorance in the facts. Districts like East Rockaway don't "eliminate" busing, but rather revert back to NY State minimum requirements. Schools are legally obligated to transport children further than 3 miles from their school. East Rockaway is so small that no public school child in grades 7-12 qualifies for transportation.

But children attending private, special ed, and parochial schools still qualify for busing, assuming their school is within 15 miles of their home (special ed children are exempt from the limit).

So to suggest "eliminating" buses will only be an unsafe and non-money saving solution.

C'mon people....we have to think of real ideas to cut costs....stop harping on the same old tired ones

9:25 AM  
Anonymous It was never about kids with this board... said...

totally absurd. a simple look at recent history should tell you that the budget most likely wouldn't pass, and the board probably wants to save the money that would be wasted on another failed vote. a plot to make things difficult for the new board? give me a break! don't forget, it's about the kids!!

$10k to hold a vote? That's money out of the Board of Education budget lines. Just means the Board will have to pay for their own dinners next year. "It's about the kids!" What a crock! It's called a LAME DUCK BOARD OF ED PRESIDENT/VICE-PRESIDENT

9:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding busing etc...perhaps it is time some state laws are amended!

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You say that children are entitled to busing...how about making it more cost effective. Have central pick-ups to cut down on transportation expenses. Busing might be the law but how it's implemented is something else. Just like special ed services. Private school children could be required to receive them in the public schools.

11:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another dumb idea. Central locations still means carrying the same number of children on buses. Still have to pay for the buses and the drivers and everything else. All that does is make parents have to watch these centralized stops since children will be walking blocks or 1/2 mile to reach them. You wouldn't save enough money for a Happy Meal at McDonalds with that one.

I hope our new board has some smarter ideas starting locally. Don't tell us it's time to change the laws, either. We've heard that one in the past and it's a great way to pass the buck.

4:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole us and them garbage has to stop and it only can if everyone individually decides to stop it. While I didn't vote for the candidates that won, I'll wait to see how things go before I pass judgement. My only fear is that the new board will go to extremes to bring down teacher salaries, driving more and more of them away. We need stability in the pubilc schools, and alienating/scapegoating the teachers doesn't promote stability. Hopefully things can be worked out amicably in a reasonable time frame. I love this community and just want to put all of this animosity behind us!

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Moshe C. said...

You're missing the point. The current board majority is fed up that they're "losing control" and, as a result, they are now considering "sticking it to the Orthodox board" by making sure the Orthodox board's hands are tied just as their's were. anonymous 7:54pm

The budget fails again a 4th time by a large margain and the board finally decided to not waste more school money on an unsure and most likely an additional failure, now the orthodox is going to vote the budget? another anonymous 8:41pm

The first post confirms what I have heard independently from people very closely connected to this process/election; i.e., the current 4:3 majority has decided to go straight to austerity. The second post misses the point b/c it's all about lack of confidence in the previous board (hence voting the budget down) and hopeful confidence in the NEW board, meaning that a budget would pass.

I'm completely certain that a public appeal by the current board to PASS the budget would ABSOLUTELY be supported by the new board members and the Ortho community.

It would be achzarius (cruelty) not to put the budget up for a revote.

10:20 PM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"Anonymous said...
"BTW a house assessed for the same value in surrounding SD's pays more tases than those in SD 15 do. Reasons should be obvious."

please explain. Its not obvious to me"

SD 15 jas relatively fewer public school students per dollar of assessed valuation. Two major reasons:
Relatively few public school students who use much more school district money than private school students do;
Relatively expensive homes in SD 15.
Take your assessed valuation of your house and multiply it by the school district yax rates in Hewlett, East Rockaway, Lynbrook, West Hempstead etc-you'll see that a Lawrence home pays less taxes than do the other homes with the same valuation.

12:35 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"Just another perfect example of someone showing their ignorance in the facts. Districts like East Rockaway don't "eliminate" busing, but rather revert back to NY State minimum requirements. Schools are legally obligated to transport children further than 3 miles from their school. East Rockaway is so small that no public school child in grades 7-12 qualifies for transportation.

But children attending private, special ed, and parochial schools still qualify for busing, assuming their school is within 15 miles of their home (special ed children are exempt from the limit).

So to suggest "eliminating" buses will only be an unsafe and non-money saving solution."

Partially correct-a school district need only supply transportation-not necessarily busing. Thus bus passes and LIRR passes are perfectly legal alternatives for a SD to do. Relatively recent decision-a couple of years ago involveing a nearby school district that was transporting students within 15 miles-outside of the are and offered LIRR passes and bus passes to the students -it was stipulated that it would take almost 2 hours each way by public transportation. Commissioner decision valid means of transportation. BTW "danger" of travel is explicitly precluded from being considered. BTW the transportation was to a Yeshiva with a similar name to a schul on W Broadway.
Making kids take buses -if not too many kids are going would save money eg N31 andN 32 go all the away close to Darchei to HANC. To HALB they could make take N31/32 to Far Rock and transfer to N33. Transportation requirement does not equal school busing-it is met by buss oasses etc.

12:46 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"But what they will learn that much of their campaign promises could not be kept because it is illegal to give a gift of public money for many of the things they want to do for the Orthodox community. "

Essentially correct-but not sure about the candidates beliefs-but certainly what many Ortho in community believe can be done by a school board for parochial schools can't be done-not only as a Federal Constitutional matter but as a NYS constitutional matter. If I recollect correctly it is the Blaine Amendment-the last serious time an attempt was made to repeal it was around 1966 and I believe if my memory is correct the whole amendments to the NYS Constitution went down -there was aNYS Constituional Convention a couple of years earlier -on this issue. Someone can correct me on those details-I do not claim exact memory on these matters-but I'm sure there is something to it.

12:54 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"My only fear is that the new board will go to extremes to bring down teacher salaries, driving more and more of them away. We need stability in the pubilc schools, and alienating/scapegoating the teachers doesn't promote stability."

THere is no shortage of people wanting to become teachers in SD's like SD15-they pay more than NYC does for far easier conditions.
They work for less than 1000 hours a year-figure out what they earn per hour.
Having said that going to arbitration-they would prbably get essentially the same deals-reason why comparables with other surrounding districts-they are just as much overpaid.

1:07 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

Central locations still means carrying the same number of children on buses. Still have to pay for the buses and the drivers and everything else. All that does is make parents have to watch these centralized stops since children will be walking blocks or 1/2 mile to reach them"

Central locations would save money for the SD and are legal only constraint they cannot make a student walk more than the distance for which they supply transportation eg if one gets transportation if living more than a half/mille they can't make you walk more than half a mile to central locations. Similar if HS is 1 and half miles they can't make you walk more than 1 and half miles to get a school bus or public bus. If mileage is state limit of 3 miles a lot more money could be saved.
What to do is a political decision as long as one supplies what the state mandates.

1:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I beg to differ with you. SD15 teachers are not overpaid. The city teachers and some surrounding L.I. districts are underpaid. These teachers have families to support just as you do.Would you like to share what you do and divulge your salary?

1:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Having students arrive at central locations doesn't necessarily mean that they need to arrive there by bus. Parents could transport them or if they fall within the required distance they could walk. Students that go to a specific school will all board a designated bus. Time is money. Drivers will not be required to make numerous pick-ups.

1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whoever said you wouldn't save enough money for a happy meal due to centralized bus stops would be wise to stop illustrating his ignorance. Cuts in busing are historical...wake up!

1:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our country was founded on its laws and ammendments. Don't tell me it's passing the buck. Using teachers as scapegoats is reprehensible.

1:52 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"SD15 teachers are not overpaid. The city teachers and some surrounding L.I. districts are underpaid."
Thus SD teachers are not underpaid compared to the competition.

These teachers have families to support just as you do.
Everybody has a family to support. Newsday reported a study that husband and wife teachers would be in the top 4% of Nassau Household Income.

"Would you like to share what you do"
No!

and divulge your salary?
No-other than to say that myself and Mrs. Mycroft-who both work earn combined nowhere near what husband and wife teachers would earn-with our same seniority.

8:12 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"Anonymous said...
Having students arrive at central locations doesn't necessarily mean that they need to arrive there by bus. Parents could transport them or if they fall within the required distance they could walk. Students that go to a specific school will all board a designated bus. Time is money. Drivers will not be required to make numerous pick-ups.

1:41 AM"
Agreed-that is why it is a poplitical decision one way or the other if a school board would go for central pickup.

8:14 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"
"Would you like to share what you do"
No!

and divulge your salary?
No-other than to say that myself and Mrs. Mycroft-who both work earn combined nowhere near what husband and wife teachers would earn-with our same seniority."

Just to clarify -people who know me know what I do and have a fair idea of my salary-but I like anonymous and Orthomom and most others do not put my real name. not p

8:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How Does Teacher Pay Compare?
Methodological Challenges and Answers

By Sylvia A. Allegretto, Sean P. Corcoran, and Lawrence Mishel (August 2004 | Economic Policy Institute Book)

The major findings of our review and analysis include the following:

• Recent research shows that teacher quality is key to student and school success.

• A continuing issue is whether teacher pay is sufficient to attract and retain quality teachers: trends in relative teacher pay seem to coincide with trends in teacher quality over the long run.

• Several types of analyses show that teachers earn significantly less than comparable workers, and this wage disadvantage has grown considerably over the last 10 years.

• An analysis of weekly wage trends shows that teachers' wages have fallen behind those of other workers since 1996, with teachers' inflation-adjusted weekly wages rising just 0.8%, far less than the 12% weekly wage growth of other college graduates and of all workers.

• A comparison of teachers' weekly wages to those of other workers with similar education and experience shows that, since 1993, female teacher wages have fallen behind 13% and male teacher wages 12.5% (11.5% among all teachers). Since 1979 teacher wages relative to those of other similar workers have dropped 18.5% among women, 9.3% among men, and 13.1% among both combined.

• A comparison of teachers' wages to those of workers with comparable skill requirements, including accountants, reporters, registered nurses, computer programmers, clergy, personnel officers, and vocational counselors and inspectors, shows that teachers earned $116 less per week in 2002, a wage disadvantage of 12.2%. Because teachers worked more hours per week, the hourly wage disadvantage was an even larger 14.1%.

• Teachers' weekly wages have grown far more slowly than those for these comparable occupations; teacher wages have deteriorated about 14.8% since 1993 and by 12.0% since 1983 relative to comparable occupations.

• Although teachers have somewhat better health and pension benefits than do other professionals, these are offset partly by lower payroll taxes paid by employers (since some teachers are not in the Social Security system). Teachers have less premium pay (overtime and shift pay, for example), less paid leave, and fewer wage bonuses than do other professionals. Teacher benefits have not improved relative to other professionals since 1994 (the earliest data we have on benefits), so the growth in the teacher wage disadvantage has not been offset by improved benefits.

• The extent to which teachers enjoy greater benefits depends on the particular wage measure employed to study teacher relative pay. Based on a commonly used wage measure that is similar to the W-2 wages reported to the IRS (and used in our analyses), teachers in 2002 received 19.3% of their total compensation in benefits, slightly more than the 17.9% benefit share of compensation of professionals. These better benefits somewhat offset the teacher wage disadvantage but only to a modest extent. For instance, in terms of the roughly 14% hourly wage disadvantage for teachers we found relative to other workers of similar education and experience, an adjustment for benefits would yield a total compensation disadvantage for teachers of 12.5%, 1.5 percentage points less.

• The hourly wage data in the NCS, the relatively new Bureau of Labor Statistics survey, has been used in several recent analyses that found teacher wages to be on par with those of other professionals. Our examination of these data show that the vast differences in the way work time is measured in the NCS for teachers (K-12, as well as university professors, airline pilots, and others) and workers following a more traditional year-round schedule preclude an accurate comparison of teacher hourly wages relative to those of other professionals. These inconsistencies in work hour measurement (hours per week, weeks per year) in the NCS are so large as to obscure a 23.4% greater hourly wage advantage for professionals relative to K-12 teachers.

For more information:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/books_teacher_pay

8:45 AM  
Anonymous Yigal Gross said...

I must say that it is strikingly interesting that the majority of the postings on this board are anonymous and that people posting in our community are fearful of posting under their own names.

Either:

a) They know what they are saying is improper - socially or Halakhically - and yet are more afraid of peer approval than propriety.

b) Think that what they are saying is correct, but are merely too busy looking over their shoulder -too cowardly - to publicly own up to their opinions.

Either way, it is an interesting testament to the character of many of our communal members who are so desperate for peer approval, for their Aliyot, their plaques in Schul and being honored at Dinners, that they will prostitute everything and anything - their social and Halakhic principles, their personal sense of freedom, dignity and integrity - to achieve it.

If you have something to say, come out and say it in your own name - what are you afraid of?

11:20 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

I haven't seen the study cited by annonymous pro teacher-but sufficient is to say look at the danger of teachers jobs compared to many other jobs-not there-compare average GRE or SAT scores of teachers they are easily in the bottom half of college graduates-it would not be a job getting paid sudh high amounts except for the the threat of September teacher "strikes" or "job actions".
Note NYC area teachers earn far more than teachers in the Rockies and northern tier of theUS-even adjusted for cost of living.
How do standardized scores relate-obviously the highest ones are from states closest to the CAnadian border. Teacher salaries have nothoing to do with it. Explain to me how a first grade phy. ed teacher is worth over $100K.

11:43 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"Either way, it is an interesting testament to the character of many of our communal members who are so desperate for peer approval, for their Aliyot, their plaques in Schul and being honored at Dinners, that they will prostitute everything and anything - their social and Halakhic principles, their personal sense of freedom, dignity and integrity - to achieve it."

Yigal-you don't know me so how can you judge my character for better or worse.BTW I have no plaques, have never been honored at a dinner and receive comparatively few aliyot average less than 2 a year-I don't want them I don't need kavod. -I show up to schul a few hundred times a year.
Frankly arguing with anonymous writers enables the discussion to based on the ideas and facts presented-not based on argument from authority.
There are people who know me-and they understand the reason why I blog under a pseudonym.

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Other professionals, not only teachers, earn far more here than in the parts of the USA you cited.

12:44 PM  
Anonymous Moshe C. said...

Anonymous said...
How Does Teacher Pay Compare?
Methodological Challenges and Answers


While I don't disagree with many of the points made in the post, it misses the point in the context of our district, and that is: Our teachers, relative to their peers in Nassau County, are overpaid.

Perspectives are either relative or absolute. I would hope nobody is arguing the absolute position. It's relative to similar districts and relative to all of Nassau County (if not all of LI), that the SD15 contract is a prize. And this on top of poor scores, when compared to other districts.

That's what the new board will have to deal with.

12:52 PM  
Anonymous Yigal Gross said...

"Frankly arguing with anonymous writers enables the discussion to based on the ideas and facts presented-not based on argument from authority"

Mycroft,

First, I highly doubt that people posting anonymously really share your idealistic intellectual altruism. I find it more likely that these anonymous posters are not looking to foster a discussion free of authority, but free of responsibility. They want to be able to vent their feelings and thoughts - no matter how absurd, hateful, and damaging - without anyone holding them responsible for it.

Second, I object to your assertion that an ideal discussion is an anonymous one. On the contrary, when people have to write under their own names they have to be more thoughtful, and careful - probing the issues to their depth, considering them in their full totality, and coming to calculated and intelligent conclusions, as opposed to hateful blabbering. Mycroft, would you dare to assert that the discussion board here, where people post anonymously, is more or even as intelligent as the letters to the editor section of the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal (even before the editing?)?

But lastly and most importantly, your entire thesis merely confirms my point - people in our community look over their shoulders and are afraid to express opinions in the open. It makes no difference if the "Authority" is the a reputable poster or one's peers reading the blog - if a person has something he believes is intelligent and legitimate, why is he afraid to post it under his own name?

1:09 PM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"Mycroft, would you dare to assert that the discussion board here, where people post anonymously, is more or even as intelligent as the letters to the editor section of the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal (even before the editing"
Of course not, both print a very small percentage of what they receive.

"But lastly and most importantly, your entire thesis merely confirms my point - people in our community look over their shoulders and are afraid to express opinions in the open. It makes no difference if the "Authority" is the a reputable poster or one's peers reading the blog - if a person has something he believes is intelligent and legitimate, why is he afraid to post it under his own name?"

You kmow full well most would be blackballed by local mosdos.For better or worse I am part of the 5T Ortho community-do you think I want my family to be read of the community-me I could live with it-but I have a family.

7:09 PM  
Anonymous Yigal Gross said...

Mycroft,

Your comment saddens me. It saddens me because it testifies to the fact that we have a community that refuses to tolerate ideas that are different, to be contemplative rather than caustic, that knows better how to find what divides rather than what unifies us. Instead of hearing lone, dissenting voices, we look to extinguish them or shout them out.

No doubt, it takes courage to publish under one's own name, but ultimately it is the only real and effective means for taking a stance in communal policy. It fosters more thoughtful, contemplative and calculated dialogue, and saves us from the thoughtless, hateful diatribes that we only too often here spouted on these boards, blogs, newspapers, and all other communal forums that allow communal members to hide behid the veil of anonymity like cowards while engaging in what could be best described as "hit-and-run commentary".

On a personal level, I know community-minded individuals who publish under their own names and yes, get blackballed by local "mosdos", including on this very blog. Aderabah, I think that it strengthens their children - they learn to stand up for what they believe in, to be independently minded, to be able to tolerate people who disagree with them. I think that their children respect them enormously as people of purpose, people of courage and integrity.

11:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yigal gross,

Any relation to yaacov gross?
- the fellow who likes to play devil's advocate so much that he penned a letter lambasting the orthodox community and its rabbis for supporting orthodox candidates for the school board, and then passed it off to the Superintendent (who is singlehandedly responsible for much of the anguish suffered by parents of special needs children), and then had the letter dropped in mailboxes of orthodox homes throughout the district on election day.

Not to knock your point in the last post, which I would agree with, if not for the fact that I'd read your other posts - I can't help but notice the similarities to the other gross's commments.

11:39 PM  
Anonymous Yigal Gross said...

I'm his son, anon.

4:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Classic.

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Luke, I am your father

8:22 PM  
Blogger Dr_Fitz said...

Yigal, Come over to the dark side like your father

10:03 PM  
Anonymous Lonely Runner said...

Just a few questions:
1. How would the increase of Sp. Ed. services for the non-public students work within the austerity budget? Something has to be cut, but what- the "expensive" teachers needed to provide the service in the non-public schools, or the "expensive" teachers needed to provide the service in the public schools to the non-public students willing to come to LPS?
2. Who would be the parents sending their kids on the LIRR or public transportation- the same parents who now use the district buses to send their kids around the corner or up to 15 miles away from Lawrence, or the parents with the Escalades, BMW, etc. who drive their kids to school?
4.Why is it that in this district everything is based on religion- even the Rabbis get involved, in writing, with the public school budget vote. What happened to the separation of religion from school? The public school system implies a structure that benefits the public who happens to be of all ethnicities and religions. Now we have a completely religious board that has the support of the far-right, ultra-conservative Orthodox groups. Is there any one out there who believes that the poor (and not so poor) non-orthodox kids will benefit from this new board?
5. SD15 average teacher's salary of 86,000. could be compared to the average LI police officer’s of 100,000., or the average orthodad's salary of ???,???., to name a few. Newsday's top 4% info can be used to make people angry with LPS teachers, but did Newsday actually say how many teacher-teacher couples make up these 4%?
6.What is wrong with the 1st grade PE teacher worth 100,000. who for more than 30 years has been preparing the future stars of the NFL, NHL. etc? Oh, wait, do we have any of these stars around here? No? Than we better cut the PE altogether- kids will exercise while walking to school or make jumping jacks while waiting for the bus. And while we are at it, let's cut music, too- they can whistle while walking. Art can be cut because who can draw while walking? How about foreign languages and ESL? Don’t you want to keep at least Hebrew? And Spanish -for the gardeners, construction workers, delivery guys, housecleaning ladies, etc. support service workers who make the 5Ts such a great place to live and have a blog.

11:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's your point? You obviously voted for the losers. Why don't you sit back and give the winners a chance?

1:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't believe the last poster should be "assumed" a public school parent. Besides, isn't it our duty to at least TRY and extende an olive branch and show there's a better way.

I think the poster simply suggests that, regardless of the background, ALL of our children deserve the same educational experience. If we're lacking something in our Yeshiva, don't take it away from the public school child....make sure the private school child also gets it.

If we continue to resort to this we vs. they mentality, we'll be no better than the status quo.

4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely, but rather than criticizing the new board members for not looking out for the interests of all children, as lonely runner does (and other public school parents do), wouldn't it make more sense to wait until they are actually board members, and actually give them a chance to make the district better for all children, and then decide whether or not they've done a good job. Lonenly runner and many others like him/her appears to be so jaded, that he/she would look for every reason in the world to find fault in the new board members even if they do effect positive change for all the children of the district.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Yigal Gross said...

Light side, dark side. All that I can say is that I hope and pray that the force will be with us all.

5:16 PM  
Anonymous NOT JADED, STILL RUNNING said...

Absolutely, but rather than criticizing the new board members for not looking out for the interests of all children, as lonely runner does (and other public school parents do), wouldn't it make more sense to wait until they are actually board members, and actually give them a chance to make the district better for all children, and then decide whether or not they've done a good job. Lonenly runner and many others like him/her appears to be so jaded, that he/she would look for every reason in the world to find fault in the new board members even if they do effect positive change for all the children of the district.

4:46 PM

1. My post was a gentle reminder of the questions, as the title suggested, that the new board would have to consider. Just like SecularDad, I ‘ll be watching ((I have no choice now, I made my choices on 5-16-06), and I hope that this school board will learn from the mistakes of previous boards. I would never criticize ahead of time. Just as I would be careful making any quick ID assumptions - who is who on this board should be irrelevant if all the bloggers are honestly caring for the future of SD15.
2. Life is full of surprises…And only some of them are kosher.
3. SecularDad, Charlie Hall, Mycroft and a few other anons-it’s a pleasure to read these posts. There is a clear concern as to where this district is going and what its leadership could do about it. Their language is clean and to the point( I am so tempted to throw in a line like, ”Who were the teachers who taught them to write so well?”, but I won’t)
4. It’s so disappointing that some of the comments to my post were directed at me rather than at the issues I addressed. Could it be because they are still searching for that right answer?

10:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How does lonely runner ask
Question #1 - How to pay for "Extra" special ed services. The better question is WHY are services provided for SOME and not all the children whatever the budget? Shouldn't the budget be alloted to ALL children, or do public school children have "special-er" needs?
Question #2 - non-starter, we are more than happy to pay taxes for bussing. (Better question is why is bussing for PRE1A cut when bussing for after school programs at public schools is allowed - maybe [just maybe] parents with children in after school programs should pick up thier children.)
Question #3 - (why did you skip three?)
Question #4 - Your right - this board will seek to include ALL children so the ones who were the only beneficiaries in the past might be annoyed. But the SD15 should serve ALL children, see Question #1.
Question #5  - Your right the police are overpaid as well, in fact I think Nassau in general could use an overhaul. Oh wait isn't that what the Demacrats said when they overthrew the Republican controled Leg. Yes, bottom line is buildings are underutilized and class size is shrinking, salaries are bloated and perks are outlandish. Yet the students seem to have the same score low scores as many other districts - so lets do it with less tax money.

4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lonely runner LOL
Anonymous said...
How does lonely runner ask:
Question #1 - How to pay for "Extra" special ed (ed.)services.(?) The better question is WHY are services provided for SOME and not all the children whatever the budget? Shouldn't the budget be alloted (allotted) to ALL children, or do public school children have "special-er"( more special) needs?
Still looking for the answer of the original question HOW?
As to the WHY part-why not be a bit more specific as to how many requests were denied based on the kids being Orthodox(or non-public)? Any specific numbers confirming the hearsay? How many disadvantaged, undereducated, uprooted, displaced, socially, emotionally, or physically disabled kids are of the Orthodox faith?
Question #2 - non-starter (look-it started a whole page), we (Who?)are more than happy to pay taxes for bussing. (Better question is why is bussing for PRE1A cut when bussing for after school programs at public schools is allowed - maybe [just maybe] parents with children in after school programs should pick up their (their) children.)
A) If you are talking about the MS and HS sports-yes, parents are driving their kids home.
B) If you are talking about academic after school programs (that would be the kids who need the extra support so they can pass the tests with better scores) most of their parents are at work and cannot drive them, or they don’t have a car.
C) Pre-1A bussing issues- you do not expect a bus to be used for a few kids when all district kids have to go to school almost at the same time, do you?
Question #3 - (why (Why) did you skip three?) I did not.
It’s there-in parenthesis. It is a trick question for higher-level readers.
Question #4 - Your (You are or you’re) right - this board will seek to include ALL children so the ones who were the only beneficiaries (Any supporting data?) in the past might be annoyed. But the SD15 should serve ALL children, see Question #1. (See above)
Question #5 - Your (You are or you’re) right (,) the police are overpaid as well, in fact I think Nassau in general could use an overhaul. Oh (,) wait ( I appreciate the attempt)isn’t (wasn’t) that what the Demacrats (Democrats) said when they overthrew the Republican controled (controlled) Leg. (How many years did the Democrats have to clean up the Republican mess?) Yes, (the) bottom line is (:) buildings are underutilized and class size is shrinking, salaries are bloated and perks are outlandish. (Numbers, please.) Yet the students seem to have the same score low scores as many other districts (I am not sure what this last segment means: the scores are lower than other districts with similar demographics or the scores are as low as these of other districts) - so lets (let’s) do it with less tax money.
As your post shows- not enough money was spent on English.
I can hear the Lawrence chapter of L.I.F.E.R. applauding you.
4:49 PM

11:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lonely runner:
Question #1 - BUDGETS are allocated, this might be hard for you to understand since you've shared so little untill now, but when something is allocated you SHARE it!
Question #2 - Bussing is to go home after close of school period. (Just like yeshivas - EQUAL treatment. This might be equally hard for you to comprehend.)
Question #3 - Still skipped.
Question #4 - Nope, I have no data on your personal beliefs about who the new board will benefit, but I still believe that SD15 should serve all the children not just the public school children.
Question #5 - I could not hear the applause, it was drowned out by the cheers of the community after the election.

11:15 AM  
Anonymous Annoyed Lonely Runner said...

Annoyed lonely runner
Anonymous said...
lonely runner:
Question #1 – BUDGETS(Why the screaming-indicated by the capitalization of the word?) are allocated, this might be hard for you to understand since you've shared so little untill (until)now, but when something is allocated you SHARE it!
Just because something is allocated doesn’t mean it is shared- if you have allocated $100.00 for shoes for 3 kids, and one pair is $50.00, how would you share the rest? Of course, one can always buy $33.33 for each kid but then would that be enough to get anything?
Question #2 - Bussing is to go home after close of school period.(after the end of the school day) Or to go to school in the morning.(Just like yeshivas - EQUAL treatment. When does the yeshiva end the school day? This might be equally hard for you to comprehend.)My comprehension is just fine- I noticed the lack of answers, just screaming and anger.
Question #3 - Still skipped. Still not reading well – go back to the original post and read again.
Question #4 - Nope, I have no data on your personal beliefs about who the new board will benefit, but I still believe that SD15 should serve all the children not just the public school children. That seems to be the refrain among some of the community members, so let’s just sit and wait, and keep posting.
Question #5 - I could not hear the applause, it was drowned out (?) by the cheers of the community after the election.
L.I.F.E.R. is an acronym for an anti-public- everything group.

I am getting a bit disappointed of this obviously very unequal exchange of postings on equality. You are not even trying to be reasonable- you just repeat over and over what you’ve been told. Critical thinking, individual approach, original problem solving, smooth responses-these are signs of good education anywhere in the private or public institutions.
Not looking forward to your next post.
11:15 AM

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lonely runner
My approach is to share, I am disappointed that that you can't. You haven't suggested one thing to SHARE, only that everything is untouchable and for private school children and it can only be used by the public schools. I've not yet seen one approach by you using all your "critical thinking, individual approach, original problem solving, smooth responses" to share SD15's budget with ALL the children.
Question #1 - find shoes for cheaper, see #5 & 6.
Question #2 - All children (Public and Private) get picked up whenever school starts and taken home when ever school ends. The end! Equal service and treatment - period.
Question #3 - Answered, (if asked).
Question #4 - Yes, instead of trying to predict the future lets wait and see.
Question #5 & #6 - I don't care what L.I.F.E.R. stands for. One of the reasons the budget is out of whack is salaries (and the perks like pensions that go with it). So long as the board was in the "pocket" of the PTA and the teachers union teachers no one was n held accountable for performance. The point is; high salaries for high perfomance is justified, but high salries for very weak performance is not. So if weak performance was fine for all these years it can be done for less money (like many other Nassau districts). If you don't want money to go to "other" children in the SD15 fine, but then we don't need to spent $20,000 on dismal performance, other schools spend less per child for equal performance, and one place to start is salaries. Many Nassau teachers make less than SD15's and thier student performance is the same so lets hire those teachers and SAVE (oh no)the taxpayers money.

I'm sure you'll respond that its not so simple, and I'm sure its not. But that doesn't mean it can't be tried and if all this board can do is not raise taxes its a victory for the taxpayers.

1:29 PM  
Anonymous NIM said...

uh lonely runner the only () you have in your original post are around the words "and not so poor". (It might be time to concede that #3 never existed.)

8:43 PM  
Anonymous eran said...

is anyone can send me please avi dubin's email adress? it's urgent
thanks
eran from israel
eeran@intermail.co.il

4:54 PM  

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