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Wednesday, July 19, 2006

Blogging the School Board Meeting - III

Nothing too exciting at tonight's District 15 School Board meeting. The referendum regarding the sale of the #1 school building is still going to be voted upon, but the capital improvement proposal has been shelved due to the Board council finding the proposal to be defective.

A district resident has apparently filed a lawsuit to have three Orthodox members of the board, Murray Foreman, Uri Kaufman, and Michael Hatten, removed from the board. She is attempting to make the case that as non-public school parents, they are not fit to serve on the board of the Lawrence School District as they do not represent the interests of the students. Curiously, she did not name Asher Mansdorf, the Orthodox president of the board, in her suit - I have no idea why not. In any event, the board voted tonight to pay all of the legal expenses for their defense.

Anyone else who was there have anything more to add? Feel free to do so in comments.

213 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"She is attempting to make the case that as non-public school parents, they are not fit to serve on the board of the Lawrence School District"

Hmm. Did she say anything about non-public school parents maybe not having to pay taxes for public school education? Well, maybe now when she learns that the school board (and our tax money) is paying for the defense, she will withdraw her lawsuit.

9:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i cant stand the whole premise, does that mean that empty-nesters are never allowed to serve? how about childless people? how about a person who never sent kid to public school, but is a publiuc school teacher. either a person is qualified or not. if they arent, the voters will decide.

look, our president may not be the most qualified candidate but the voters spoke. welcome to a democracy.

9:43 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

I don't think you should write what the suit is about(OR EVEN IMPLY) if you don't exactly know...and if you do I'd appreciate if you share it with me and everyone else too...maybe one of the board members can spare you a copy?

9:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Somebody should go the board office tomorrow and foil a copy of the lawsuit. Maybe if we publish her name and the local paper puts some attention on this we can see just how dumb fellow residents are.

9:55 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

or how aware of the situation...please don't insult people you don't know, especially that you'd like to get respect from them.

9:58 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

psmom said...

I don't think you should write what the suit is about(OR EVEN IMPLY) if you don't exactly know...and if you do I'd appreciate if you share it with me and everyone else too...maybe one of the board members can spare you a copy?


Um...it was openly discussed at tonight's meeting. Let me repeat what I wrote in the post: The suit is about a district resident suing to remove three Orthodox members of the board because she feels they do not represent the interests of the students. Now, if the school board didn't want us talking about this...they probabaly wouldn't have brought it up in front of a hundred some-odd people.

9:58 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

.please don't insult people you don't know, especially that you'd like to get respect from them.



I agree with you completely psmom. The comment above was out of line.

9:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The lawsuit is stupid. (and I'm a public school parent) While the new board may not be able to win over people of her ilk, hopefully they will be able to do so with the majority of public school parents through their leadership and devotion to the needs of the district's children.

9:59 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

While the new board may not be able to win over people of her ilk, hopefully they will be able to do so with the majority of public school parents through their leadership and devotion to the needs of the district's children.

Believe me, I truly hope that will be the case.

10:02 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

"she feels they do not represent the interests of the students"

I did not hear that part...but let's just find out, are you getting the copy of it tomorrow.

10:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the lawsuit is a mistake. we are wasting our already scarce dollars to defend against it. someone should have stopped this before it got out of the gates.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I assume it was filed in Nassau County Supreme Court, As a public record, a copy can be obtained from the court files there.

10:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guess you do not know what the lawsuit is about, which by the way is not a lawsuit, it is a grievance filed with the state regent board, not the supreme court. And it has nothing to do with being orthodox, it has to do with signing avadavits that has lies about campaign finances fopr one thing and about behaving in a manor not befitting a board member and having a conflict of interest. Maybe you should read the grievance before you make any accusations.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

if it's a grievance...why do they need the defense???

10:28 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Guess you do not know what the lawsuit is about, which by the way is not a lawsuit, it is a grievance filed with the state regent board, not the supreme court.

They referred to it as a legal action at the meeting tonight, and they require a lawyer to defend themselves. In my mind, that means lawsuit. If you would like to volunteer to be this blog's legal expert, feel free to e-mail me. And I said nothing about the Supreme Court - where di you get that from?

And it has nothing to do with being orthodox, it has to do with signing avadavits that has lies about campaign finances fopr one thing and about behaving in a manor not befitting a board member and having a conflict of interest.

I didn't say that the it necessarily was stated as because they are Orthodox - I simply stated that they are Orthodox. And the conflict of interest claim is because they do not have children in the schools.

10:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" psmom said...

if it's a grievance...why do they need the defense??? "

Exactly. its definitely a suit of some kind.

10:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No - the conflict of interest is becuase two of the defendants sit on boards that may be in conflict with a public school board.

And annon 10:14 said Nassu Supreme Court

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and why should it be alright to have two elections and spend an extra $30000 but not defend the board members in this suit?

10:34 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Anonymous said...

No - the conflict of interest is becuase two of the defendants sit on boards that may be in conflict with a public school board.


Care to elaborate, or is this a guessing game. I only have the information that was disseminated at tonight's meeting. I do not know more than that, and thus ask for any added information to be left in comments.


And annon 10:14 said Nassu Supreme Court


Anon 10:14 said "I assume it was filed in Nassau County Supreme Court". Clearly nothing more that supposition. Please, if you have more information that would clear this up, we would love to hear it.

10:37 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Anonymous said...

and why should it be alright to have two elections and spend an extra $30000 but not defend the board members in this suit?

No one's saying it isn't - however, if the suit is frivolous, as it seems to be, then it's a shame that the board is forced to soend district money to defend itself against such charges. They absolutely should be paying to defend the board members who are named - it's just a pity this is even necessary.

10:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guess you werent at the meeting where everyone was served and certain people in the audience were given packages as well.

10:40 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Guess you werent at the meeting where everyone was served and certain people in the audience were given packages as well.


That was during the last meeting. I was told that Mr. Kaufman was served at the last meeting - but I am missing your reference regarding certain people in the audience.

10:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard that not only the entire board was served, but packages were given to various audience members that contained the suit.

10:50 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

I heard that not only the entire board was served, but packages were given to various audience members that contained the suit.


Hey, why wan't I one of the audience members who got a package with the suit? ;)

10:52 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

oy..vey! anon 10:50
you should get your sources straight. what you heard WAS WRONG!!!

10:53 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

momof4...becasue although you are blogging, you are still a mystery (although the only ORTHO in the audience)

10:54 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

psmom said...

momof4...becasue although you are blogging, you are still a mystery


I know, I was just kidding.

(although the only ORTHO in the audience)

That's actually untrue - there were quite a bunch. We don't wear signs... at least not all of us.

10:56 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

ORTHO mom...not dad, I did not mean to label you/or anyone else. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

10:57 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


psmom said...

ORTHO mom...not dad, I did not mean to label you/or anyone else. Sorry you took it the wrong way.


No offense was taken. I'm just kidding around.

10:59 PM  
Anonymous psmom said...

laila tov...30 comments (and 1/3 from me) is just about what this meeting deserves...

11:00 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

psmom said...

laila tov...30 comments (and 1/3 from me) is just about what this meeting deserves...


lol. I agree - like the caveat I started this post off with, this meeting wasn't too exciting.

11:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We don't wear signs... at least not all of us. "

Om, you don't wear a sign?

11:08 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

Most of the places I've lived have had school boards that were appointed, not elected. I'm beginning to think that non-elected school boards are a good idea.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Appointed by whom though?

11:17 PM  
Anonymous GoyGuy said...

10:22 PM Anonymous said...

"it has to do with signing avadavits that has lies about campaign finances"

I knew we would be hearing about this again.

I've said it before. If the candidates were truthful in their statements, and there's no reason to think they weren't, then many of their ads were paid for illegally. The people who did this have done the community and the candidates a great disservice. Already it's costing money and distracting the board from their work.

If it is discovered that the candidates did approve the spending and lied on their statements, their legal costs should be paid for personally, not by the taxpayers.

11:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Goy guy, this is nothing but a witch hunt. and how could it be only about the campaign stuff if foreman is named?

11:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The complaints contain frivolous allegations about all three of them - though they are each addressed with unique allegations. It's amazing how much time and energy was invested in such a desperate and hopeless witchhunt.

For Foreman, the complainant suggests that he should be removed because of his unique voting patterns.

11:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe desperate is the keyword. Although the board under its new leadership is asking for the community to come together, the actions that it takes is showing the community that it really is does not mean what it says. What I mean is, by appointing attorneys that the public school parents do not like or trust, by taking off the very proposition that the public school desperately needs to assure that the schools are going to be made safe for their children, to name two biggies, is creating the very divisivness that the board is saying they are trying to mend. I think the board should practive what they preach. They want the public school to show trust, but they are not giving the public school something to trust in - only words and words are not enough in this political climate.

12:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I think the board should practive what they preach.


C'mon, after those stunts pulled off by the departing board (including Kopilow and Greenbaum) just a few weeks ago, who can criticize the new guys for not giving the time of day to those two? They dug their own hole. Dr. Mansdorf has been the peacemaker on the board for 5 years and has gotten no recognition for his efforts from anyone on either side. For Kopilow and Greenbaum to expect the new board to capitulate after they were publicly shafted by Kopilow and Greenbaum just 4 weeks ago is utterly ridiculous.

12:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kopilow and greenbaum arent the ones asking for peace - its Dr. Mansdorf so I guess its him who should be practicing what he is preaching.

12:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And to top if all off, one of the sitting board members was the a driving force behind these frivolous efforts to unseat three of the other board members.

So even after we vote out the beholden majority, they still find frivolous ways to waste the district's money.

12:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Didnt the vote to defend the board members pass unanimously? Confused.....

12:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And holding two elections isnt a frivolous way to waste the district's money?

12:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't believe you're really confused, since you seem a bit too informed.

The complicit board member was the one who declared at the moment the complaints were served that the two new board members could not have the benefit of the board's counsel (although no one had even seen the complaints yet). Of course, once the board's counsel researched the matter and determined that they could have the benefit of the board's counsel, that certain board was smart enough to back down.

But it still seems highly inappropriate for one of the (minority) board members to take an active role in petitioning for the removal of 3 other board members.

12:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And holding two elections isnt a frivolous way to waste the district's money?

Wasting $30k on an extra election is certainly not as frivolous as spending $27 million on repairs just because Fitzsimons found someone to say they're necessary

12:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is that true? Did a board member take an active role in the petition? Is there a grievance do be had for that board member? Seems you know a lot about the petition. Please enlighten me. Are you the one who knows so much about this petion in previous postings. Maybe you can give orthomom a copy so she can get her facts straight.

12:34 AM  
Anonymous GoyGuy said...

" Goy guy, this is nothing but a witch hunt. and how could it be only about the campaign stuff if foreman is named?"

Of course it's a witch hunt. Politics is a dirty business, and you use whatever stick you have to beat at your opponents. For two of them it's the campaign finance thing. Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Hatten can thank their supporters for handing their opponents the stick.

12:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not clear on what went on tonight about that whole proposition two. I didnt think it was for the entire 27 million. Please clarify.

12:36 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Maybe you can give orthomom a copy so she can get her facts straight.

Hey, if this is what I can glean out of what they discussed at the school board meeting - and you claim my facts aren't straight, then there's something very wrong with the way this district and school board is disseminating information to its taxpayers.

12:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny - or maybe naive - i thought the whole school board thing was about education and children - not politics.

12:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

orthomom - i was talking about the legal thing which of course you couldnt get your facts right if you havent seen a copy of

12:40 AM  
Anonymous GoyGuy said...

momof4 said...

"then there's something very wrong with the way this district and school board is disseminating information to its taxpayers."

LOL. What, they should be different than every other government organization? ;-)

12:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

52 comments in 3 hours over a meeting that was as boring as this one?

12:47 AM  
Anonymous GoyGuy said...

12:38 AM Anonymous said...

"Funny - or maybe naive - i thought the whole school board thing was about education and children - not politics."

Of course it's about politics. Politics and money. Everyone wants just a little bigger taste on the other guys dime. I do. Don't you?

12:47 AM Anonymous said...

"52 comments in 3 hours over a meeting that was as boring as this one?"

Hey, you have to work with what you have ;-)

12:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems people are angry. Angry people do not think straight. I think each board member should be looking in his or her heart and doing what is best for the children of this district. They should not forget what the oath they took and swore to states. They are supposed to care for the children of this district and educate them. With that being said, the baord should be able to compromise so that all parties are able to live with the decisions in harmony and peace.

12:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
I assume it was filed in Nassau County Supreme Court, As a public record, a copy can be obtained from the court files there.

10:14 PM"

I posted this as an assumption that if it was a suit it must have ben filed in Nassau Sup Ct. This assumption was based upon "MOMS" blog entry that " A district resident has apparently filed a lawsuit". Lawsuits, go to court. Lawsuits of the level described go to Supreme Ct. If it is a grevience then yes it would go to the Adminstrative Agency responsible.

6:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone calling this a witch hunt gone to any meetings and witnessed the voting patterns?

Murray Foreman will either vote 'no' against or refrain from voting anything that involves spending money on public schools, i.e. fixing the firescapes in #4 school.

This is not a problem?

8:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They were elected--fair and square. They're taxpayers, they're residents of the district.

9:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"highly inappropriate for one of the board members to take an active role in petitioning for the removal of 3 other board members"


Don't board members take active roles in having other board members removed within their own board? Didn't the Lawrence School Board try to remove a board member as it was sitting with that board member?

9:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Murray Foreman will either vote 'no' against or refrain from voting anything that involves spending money on public schools, i.e. fixing the firescapes in #4 school.

This is not a problem?


You've must be kidding (or, more likely, you're one of the people behind the lawsuits, so you've actually convinced yourself of its legitimacy, to justify all of the wasted time and money).

In a Democracy, elected officials are empowered to vote as they see fit. If there weren't two legitimate sides to the issue, then it wouldn't have been a resolution and it wouldn't have been put up for a vote. So essentially, this complaint alleges that the Democratic process is wrong and our system of elections should be disbanded.

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"For Foreman, the complainant suggests that he should be removed because of his unique voting patterns."

Unique voting pattern is an interesting way to phrase it ... Explain how someone who either votes no or abstains on every issue that involves public school funding is representing the issues of the public school children??? It sounds like someone who does not care one iota about public school children. If that is the case ... then he does not belong on a public school board.

10:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's obviously your opinion, but what legal basis is there to remove him from the board for representing what he deems to be the majority viewpoint in the district?

10:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because school district Trustees are charged with the duty to protect and preserve the interests of the school district as an institutuion, not to advocate for a particular voting block's preference if that preference will hurt schools. In this way, Trustee is a slightly different public office than, say, Mayor or Senator.

10:56 AM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:58 AM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

The likely basis for the grievance is section 1706 of the NYS Education Law:

Power of removal of member of board of education. For cause shown, and after giving notice of the charge and opportunity of defense, the commissioner of education may remove any member of a board of education. Wilful disobedience of any lawful requirement of the commissioner of education, or a want of due diligence in obeying such requirement or wilful violation or neglect of duty is cause for removal.

Based on the annotations, I can't imagine that voting the "wrong way" or abstaining in the absence of wilful violations of law can possibly meet this standard. But, the new majority might want to take note of 1708(18) which provides that a board has the power "[t]o remove any member of their board for official misconduct. But a written copy of all charges made of such misconduct shall be served upon him at least ten days before the time appointed for a hearing of the same; and he shall be allowed a full and fair opportunity to refute such charges before removal."

11:00 AM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

Yes, to preserve the interests of the school district - Not just the interests of the public schools, Not just the interests of the teachers' union, Not just the interests of the public school parents.

Is it that clear that his voting pattern runs contrary to the preservation of the school district, when there are differences of opinion as to what the interests of the school district are? Why do you presume that your interests are the interests of the school district? What is the definition of "school district"? That's the threshhold question.

11:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In a Democracy, elected officials are empowered to vote as they see fit. If there weren't two legitimate sides to the issue, then it wouldn't have been a resolution and it wouldn't have been put up for a vote. So essentially, this complaint alleges that the Democratic process is wrong and our system of elections should be disbanded.

the problem is is what murray see's as fit. Fit to murray is only what interests him and the private school community and that has been evidenced in his voting.Unfortunately that is the democratic way but we all know that this does not always work especially when you are only serving one parties interest. ie: ortho community..

11:41 AM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

Unfortunately that is the democratic way

Yeah, democracy sucks. I sooo wish we had one of those other forms of government, like monarchy or maybe a totalitarian regime like they have in North Korea. They look like they are having so much fun there.

11:50 AM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...


Unfortunately that is the democratic way but we all know that this does not always work especially when you are only serving one parties interest. ie: ortho community..


We were stuck with Licatesi, and we were stuck with the actions of the lame duck majority, and now we're stuck with the "private school" majority for better or for worse.

So what legal basis is there for removing a board member because of the way he votes?

12:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, democracy sucks. But it still didnt stop three board members from trying to stop the democratic process when they tryed to go to supreme court and get a court order to stop the vote to approve the teachers contract. Funny, when they feel they have been wronged, they feel it is alright to use the legal system, but it is not alright for others.

12:13 PM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

Spirit, 1706 sets forth the circumstances for removal. Each seems to require some violation of law (either intention or negligent). Voting one way or the other does not seem to meet this standard.

12:14 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

As I understand, they didn't go to court to remove any sitting board members - they only sought to enjoin the board from voting on the teachers' contract before providing the necessary financial information. Even if they were successful, it would have only compelled the rest of the board to disclose the financial implications of the contract. That sounds like something the board should have responded to without anyone going to court. Disclosure and transparency is something that everyone should be gunning for in this district.

12:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I could be wrong, but at the board meeting I thought the super said that the financial implications were given to all board members at least one or two weeks before the vote.

12:27 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

I don't recall the superintendent saying that at the meeting, but I'm told that their response to the judge in court was that the financial information was provided to board members with the agenda several days in advance of the meeting.

Either way, no one has ever received any such financial information, because it doesn't exist. No one has bothered to cost out the new contract for the public or even for the rest of the board.

Whether or not one agrees with the actions of the minority now or the minority then, the public, and certainly their elected officials, deserve to know how much this contract will really cost the district.

12:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So what legal basis is there for removing a board member because of the way he votes?

other than moral or ethical which may or may not apply i am not sure if there is a legal recourse. maybe it was just to send a message to the board. who knows

2:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Krum as a bagel said...
Unfortunately that is the democratic way

Yeah, democracy sucks. I sooo wish we had one of those other forms of government, like monarchy or maybe a totalitarian regime like they have in North Korea. They look like they are having so much fun there

that wasn't what was meant. stop twisting things and knock off the sarcasm, krum

2:38 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

'Appointed by whom though?'

Other elected officials. I lived most of my life in Maryland and Virginia where school boards were part of County government. In Virginia, the Boards were appointed by the County Boards of Supervisors in the Counties in which I resided, and in Maryland, they were appointed by the governor of the state after a nominating process. Now I live in New York City where the Board is also appointed. Most of Virginia, including the counties in which I lived, now elects its school board but they are still a part of County goverment.

I also lived in Massachusetts for 4 years and Connecticut for 6; School Boards are elected there. However, not even there did the school board have taxing authority.

2:51 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

If there's no legal basis to remove these board members, then why are we now spending thousands of taxpayer dollars for the district's counsel to formulate a response?

If one of the "minority" board members was complicity in filing the complain, why is he/she not interceding to put this issue to rest without squandering the district's money, which could otherwise be spent on vital services?

If that isn't putting politics ahead of the children ...

2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What on earth are you all getting at?
Which board member are you accusing of having something to do with those petitions???
Why not put your money where your big mouths are?
IF you even know what you are talking about!

3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greenbaum unabashedly assisted the complaint, and obviously knew all about it before it was even served.

3:13 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

That's disgraceful, if it's true.

3:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

obviously? assisted? you're indulging in pure speculation

3:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Her daughter (in high school) even assisted and has an affidavit in the complaint.

It seems that Greenbaum strategized that they could use the complaint to force the two new board members to pay for their own legal representation.

3:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Her daughter was at the meeting receiving an award.

Where is your proof that Pam had anything to do with the complaints?

The way you throw suppositions around as fact is scary!

3:24 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...


Her daughter (in high school) even assisted and has an affidavit in the complaint.


I guess I spoke to soon. Now, that's really putting politics ahead of the children.

3:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She cautioned the board's counsel against taking up representation of the two new board members - at the same time that the complaints were served, before anyone had even opened the complaints.

What would you, Anon 3:24, (or she) like us to believe was her involvement in this frivolous waste of district funds?

3:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is your point?
If a board member does something wrong-
the other board members are supposed to not speak out against it? They are not supposed to try to stop such behavior?

They are not supposed to allow their child- who witnessed said behavior to speak up.

Should there be some sort of loyalty amongst them- simply because they share the same responsibility?

Why then was it okay for Asher, Murray and Sussman to parade themselves to court to get an injunction against their fellow board members?

What a bunch of hypocrites you are.
And you should not call yourselves SPIRIT OF LAWRENCE when clearly the children of Lawrence mean little to you.

3:36 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

Wow! Someone's pretty enraged.

While I don't know where Anon got all that information about Greenbaum (and I'm not sure why I'm being criticized for not caring for the children of Lawrence), it does seem like Anon above just did an about face on this issue - From 3:04 to 3:36

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why then was it okay for Asher, Murray and Sussman to parade themselves to court to get an injunction against their fellow board members?


Check out Spirit's comments at 12:22

3:57 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

In terms of all the discussion over what is actually in the legal action, this is what I've been told it contains:

Mr. Kaufman is not fit because he made impolitic and divisive remarks at a board meeting. If that were grounds for removal, we wouldn't have had to endure Anthony Licatesi's anti-Orthodox diatribes at every turn a few years back.

The action claims that Mr. Kaufman is also not fit due to his involvement with a non-profit organization that advocates for increased government support for private school education, and that somehow that is a conflict of interest. Um...hello? Last I checked, we lived in a Democracy, and people were allowed to hold whatever views they want. If voters do not agree with said views, then the time to make their decision based on that candidate's views would have been before the election.

The legal action claims that the newly elected candidates, Kaufman and Hatten, violated election statute in running their campaign. There is no proof submitted foir that claim, and it has been debunked many times over in a previous post I have written on the subject. Again, a ridiculous point.

The complaint apparently also mentions the fact that Kaufman and hatten were sworn in privately, when in the past trustees were sworn in publicly. There is not indication that that is at all illegal or grounds for removal in any way.

The action states that mr. Foreman is unfit to serve because he votes with an agenda, and he missed some votes. Now, whether Mr. Foreman does vote with an agenda or not - as many commenters pointed out above, that is what our elected leaders are voted in to do. We entrust them to vote in our best interests. If after they take office, the voters feel that the officials are not doing so, the recourse is to vote another candidate in at the next election.

From what I've heard about it, this complaint is based on assertions that are either uproveable, not backed up with evidence, or completely irrelevant.

What a waste of district's time and money.

5:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

here you go again, mrs. mansdorf. you really expect us to believe that you aren't very close with a board memeber with information like you just put up.

5:30 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

This isn't exactly confidential information. And from the looks of it. The only ones who should be ashamed of sharing it are those involved in filing it and squandering district funds (including Greenbaum)

5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Kaufman is not fit because he made impolitic and divisive remarks at a board meeting. If that were grounds for removal, we wouldn't have had to endure Anthony Licatesi's anti-Orthodox diatribes at every turn a few years back.


That's a poor comparison. Kaufman wasn't even a board member when he made those remarks.

5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"She cautioned the board's counsel against taking up representation of the two new board members - at the same time that the complaints were served, before anyone had even opened the complaints"

After to speaking with Ms. Greenbaum, this is in fact a lie. What happened, in Ms. Greenbaums's words was that after everyone was served and the complaints were read with the attorneys she went over to the new attorney to ask what they said. After a two minute explanation in which the attorney mentioned that part of the complaint was about campaign finances, she asked why would the district's counsel represent them if it was when they were not yet on the board. Seems that anon has either purposely lied about the events to tarnish Ms. Greenbaum or does not have his/her story correct. As for having her daughter part of this, her daughter taped the board meeting becuase she was receiving an award that evening and then was asked for a copy of it. Why would anyone have a problem with her granting the request unless they feel it has something on it they do not want shown?

5:41 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

That's a poor comparison. Kaufman wasn't even a board member when he made those remarks.

You know what? You're so right. It was so much worse when Licatesi did it as a sworn member of the school board. Kaufman made his comments as a regular citizen. I'm so glad you pointed that out.

5:41 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

And here someone is again with the old canard about my being Mrs. Mansdorf. Give it up, people.

5:48 PM  
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maybe orthomom is really asher mansdorf himself

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or sondra sussman.........

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6:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After to speaking with Ms. Greenbaum, this is in fact a lie. What happened, in Ms. Greenbaums's words was that after everyone was served and the complaints were read with the attorneys she went over to the new attorney to ask what they said. After a two minute explanation in which the attorney mentioned that part of the complaint was about campaign finances, she asked why would the district's counsel represent them if it was when they were not yet on the board. Seems that anon has either purposely lied about the events to tarnish Ms. Greenbaum or does not have his/her story correct.

That's a tough story to stand behind, considering that her daughter diligently videotaped the entire 2-3 hour meeting (rather than just the 30-second award presentation), and then signed an affidavit that is part of an exhibit to the complaint.

Furthermore, if the complaint is 79 pages long (and 27 pages before the exhibits even begin), how can she claim that she waited till the "complaints were read with the attorneys" after they were served before suggesting that the new board members weren't entitled to representation?
- All in a matter of seconds

And she claims that she knew nothing about it before they were served? What a liar!

6:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think its John Fitzsimons

6:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How did her daughter know that Uri Kaufman was going to go off the deep end? How did her daughter know what was going to transpire?
She was there with her camera and the board members must have inspired her to keep her camera turned on.

6:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why dont you ask the attorneys what he said to Ms. Greenbaum? Or maybe the anon already has.

6:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't have to ask. I was standing there and heard exchange myself.

6:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We entrust them to vote in our best interests."

I thought the "role" of the members of the Board of Ed was to act in the best interest of the children! I didn't realize that they were there to "lobby" for their constitutents. The children should be their constituents.

6:34 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

The children should be their constituents.


Maybe we could figure out a way to elect children to the board - even if they don't have the right to vote.

Otherwise, I think we'll just have to let our board members represent everyone in the district as they are expected to - not just the public school childre, not just the private school children, not just a particular group of parents. Of course, this all leads up back to the threshhold question of what the board member maintains is in the best interest of the community.

A narrow understanding of the proper constituency as being only the public school children, or only the public and private school children would not align with votes cast by every member of the board (including those who voted to increase the already overpaid teachers' salaries, at the expense of student programming).

6:58 PM  
Blogger Goy Guy said...

The details of the complaint are in today's Newsday.

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seeking ouster from board
Saying that panel's Orthodox members undermine public schools, parent asks state for their removal
BY KARLA SCHUSTER
Newsday Staff Writer

July 21, 2006

A North Woodmere parent wants the state education commissioner to remove three Orthodox Jewish members of the Lawrence school board, accusing them of campaign finance irregularities and "furthering an anti-public school agenda."

The petition, filed with the state Department of Education, seeks to oust members Murray Forman, Uri Kaufman and Michael Hattan. It is the latest shot in an increasingly bitter fight between public and private school parents for control of the school board.

The school board, which on Tuesday voted to pay for defending the three men against the petition, has 20 days to respond. After that, state Education Commissioner Richard Mills will rule, said spokesman Jonathan Burman.

With the election of Kaufman and Hattan in May, the seven-member Lawrence board is now controlled by an Orthodox Jewish majority. Kaufman and Hattan were sworn in this month. Forman was elected last year.

The three men "have each been derelict in their duty" according to the petition filed Monday by Fu-Yang Tang, a mother of three Lawrence public school students.

Kaufman and Forman could not be reached for comment. Hattan called the petitions "garbage, frivolous and truly bizarre."

"It's a concoction on the part of a fringe element of the community to overturn the results of a popular election ... because we now control the majority of the board," Hattan said. Tensions between public and private school parents, who are largely from the district's growing Orthodox Jewish community, have been simmering for years, leading to failed budgets and dwindling enrollment.

Tang, through her attorney, Elizabeth Meyerson of Atlantic Beach, declined to comment.

"Each one of these grievances has merit," said Meyerson, a parent of two Lawrence public school students. "This kind of conduct is simply inappropriate for a trustee of a public school district, in Lawrence or anywhere in the state."

Complaints cited include under-reporting of campaign spending by Hattan and Kaufman, divisive comments by Kaufman and Forman and a biased voting and poor attendance record by Forman.

Hattan, in a campaign finance disclosure form, said he spent $8 on his race. Hattan said fliers and posters made for him and Kaufman were paid for by unknown supporters. "It's not my responsibility to go and uncover what people spent on my behalf," he said.

The petition also notes that, in June, Forman was among several board members who unsuccessfully sought a court order to stop the panel, then still controlled by public school advocates, from approving a new teacher's contract. "It appears to me," Tang wrote in the petition, "that [Forman's] conduct has been intentional and has the wrongful purpose of furthering an anti-public school agenda."

Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone look to see what the agenda is for the special board meeting to be held on Thursday, June 27 8:15 (on www.lawrence.org) Interesting....

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


A G E N D A



OPENING OF MEETING


Call To Order

Pledge Of Allegiance



PRESENTATIONS/REPORTS


Discussion: First review of Building Use Policy #1500



FIRST OPPORTUNITY FOR COMMUNITY REMARKS CONCERNING AGENDA ACTION ITEMS


The Board invites thoughts and/or reactions on agenda action items from members of the community who are present. Each participant is asked to give his/her name and address, both verbally and in writing in order to maintain accurate minutes. We request all participants abide by the two minute time limit the Board has set.


ACTION ITEMS:



A. Schedule of Annual Appointments (enclosure)



B. Food Service Bid Specifications (enclosure)

Resolved the Food Service Bid Specification as presented on enclosure by Susan Merims, Food Service Consultant, are acceptable and approved for the development of the Bid document for the Food Service Management Company.



C. Non-Unit Adjustments (enclosure)



D. Universal Pre-Kindergarten for 2006-2007(enclosure)



ADJOURNMENT


What's so interesting about the agenda?

11:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope this frivilous lawsuit is tossed from the courts and those bringing it are required to pay the district's legal fees. Mrs. Greenbaum etal have been attached at the hip with Clements and the teachers union, who provided support to her campaign. Did she report that? No wonder she pushed through a contract that will burden the district for years to come. People in glass house should not throw stones. Is the Newsday reporter any relationship to Penny Schuster, Mrs.Greenbaums sidekick? Who as a member of ALPS signed a letter from ALPS to the Comptroller as A BOARD OD EDUCATION member? Mrs. Greenbaum!!

Stop the non-sense and get to work on inmproving the educatioanl sysytem in Lawrence.

12:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

seem to left out one agenda item that is to be discussed - the building use policy - what could that be all about? i wonder

1:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

easy enough to find out, why don' you FOIL Ms. Greenbaum's campaign finances.

1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it wouldn't show the soft money from the teachers union-not to mention the staff hours making calls for her

1:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

staff hours making calls for her? do you really think that the teachers get paid to make such calls?

5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's absolutely hilarious that anyone would cite Dena Greenbaum's affadavit as "proof." How would she know that Uri Kaufman was going to blow up like he did? Let's be completely honest (something a lot of people commenting here have problems with being) - Dena Greenbaum happened to be filming when Mr. Kaufman revealed his true colors in a truly despicable and divisive rant that no amount of apologizing can make go away. There was no way for Dena to know that she would be filming such a clear piece of evidence for a lawsuit she could have no way of knowing about.

Honestly - cut the bullshit and stop falling back on dated rhetoric. This is atrocious.

7:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honestly - cut the bullshit and stop falling back on dated rhetoric. This is atrocious.

Look in the mirror dude. Give it a rest already.

10:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting how there is no Blogging school board meeting IV - have you lost interest?

11:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is what I think. All of the "Orthodox" that we think should not be able to vote since they do not have children in "Our" schools should mail in their tax bills with a note that says "we have no say then you do it without our money too" not a check.

See how long our system lasts then.

Sorry, this time they are right. Pay tax equals right to vote and board members are voted in. Chances are they will do better than our guys did in the past squandering all our tax dollars and getting crappy results.

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