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Wednesday, November 01, 2006

NYJW on GG - Take 2

The Jewish Week put up another article on the Five Towns Kashrut controversy, and at least this time they don't make total hash out of it (as they did out of last week's article on the subject). This week's take is a heck of a lot more balanced than last week's - which basically quoted the Bolenders' side of the conflict without any recognition whatsoever given to the fact that there actually was another side to the story.

This well-researched "fact", from today's article, is so typical of the publication's curious style of "reporting" it makes me laugh:
Although some people appeared to have heeded the call of area rabbis not to shop at the store, others said they were deliberately flouting that directive, frustrated with the Vaad’s decision not to spell out their concerns with Gourmet Glatt.
That's all. No quotes from community members, no statements from shoppers who were found shopping in the store after the boycott was called, as we would see in any other news source worth the paper its printed on. Just the writer's murky asessment of the situation - which (if you want my opinion) seems to be based solely on the reporter's perusal of the blogs he goes on to mention next:
A number of Internet blogs, or online personal journals, on the controversy were critical of the Vaad, with one saying that though the Vaad must be supported and every eatery held to the same standards, the Vaad “is being somewhat vague — perhaps suspiciously vague — on the actual reasoning behind their decision. … They’re careening toward a vote of no confidence if they don’t start discussing why they did what they did.”
A "number"? Did you mean Still Wonderin's blog, Mr. Ain? Well, why not just say so?

And of course, an article in the Jewish Week wouldn't be complete without a misleading quote that frames the story all wrong:
Rabbi Harry Cohen, an administrator of a different kosher supervisory agency that is not connected to this dispute, said that although Rabbi Kravitz should have sought permission from the Vaad before agreeing to provide kosher supervision, he disagreed with the actions of the Vaad.

“Where do these rabbis come off forcing him to sell?” he asked.
"Forcing him to sell"? I think this oft-repeated misconception is one that must be cleared up. The Vaad is in so position to "force" Mr. Bolender to sell - as is seen in his choice (yes, his choice) to contract another Hechsher and maintain ownership of the store. The Vaad, fed up with various Kashrut violations, simply gave the owners of the store a choice: sell the store to an owner who we feel is trustworthy, or lose your hasgacha. Mr. Bolender obviously chose the latter (while breaking a contractual obligation or two along the way). Perhaps Gourmet Glatt's ownership felt that the Vaad forced their hand - but personally, I feel the Vaad's hand was forced by Gourmet Glatt.

39 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am one of those still supporting Gourmet Glatt and almost feel like buying things I don't need. In any event, while walking the aisles everyone seems to stop and discuss their feelings on the current situation. It is quite plausible that a reporter was there and part of one of those conversations. I do agree that if this were the case, he/she could have been more specific in quoting someone specifically.

9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems almost ironic when this story broke about a alleged Empire chicken the Vaad made a statement of no "kashruth Violation" a few weeks ago , now numerous "halachic Violations". Still we have not seen the Chicken/the lady/the reciept/the video of the person ever buying the chicken. Very suspicious for the Vaad. As a Law student I hope the Vaad and the Rabbis personally have deep pockets for this mess.

9:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a "law student" you should know that there is nothing Bolender can sue for. As Bolender, you can continue to post absurd comments on this blog with a thinly veiled attempt at anonymity.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous another momof4 said...

Harry Cohen, one of the few hashgachos that you could say about "you shouldn't drink bottled water with his hasgacha". They couldn't have found a more unreliable hasgacha if they tried.

10:44 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

10:44 is lashan hara and should be removed.

11:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Hall:
1044 is not me-but if one can say that GG's hashgacha by Kravitz is not reliable a fortiori one could easily say that Rabbis is not reliable. BTW R. Cohen has Zarros hashgacha-he got the job after Rabbi Twersky died-a brother of the late Rabbi Twersky who was a son-in-law of Rabbi Soloveitchik.
BTW if Zarros was kosher under Twersky what has changed under Cohen.

11:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a "law student" you should know that there is nothing Bolender can sue for

I assume you are correct-that is their hope by hiring Snitow-he defended succesfully Rabbis who told an estranged spouse confidences-using a religious entanglement defense. The courts should not get involved in internal religious issues. Clearly, that is the legal defense.
BTW there are Rabbis who feel Snitows succesful defense ruined the absolute prior assurance that people had that the clergy penitent privilege is sacrosant. Thus, people are more afraid in comfiding with a Rav.
Side disastorous affect-but Snitow as a lawyer was succesful in defending those Rabbis and clearly the defense the Vaad will attempt.

6:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its obvious that the NYJW did the least possible research for these 2 stories, instead relying on Bolander's accounts and not looking into any history, not even anything from the last 8 weeks.

(Should've been simple enough to read the Jewish Star and then varify the story with Empire and the Vaad.)

How is it they tried the Vaad 5 times on Tuesday and didn't get any reply.

First of all, isn't nice how he waited until hours before deadline to call the Vaad. This story was known on Shabbos, which gave him all day Monday to contact the Vaad. Secondly, how is it that the Jewish Star and the 5T Jewish Times can get in contact with Rabbi Eisen without trouble, but the 'venerable' NYJW can't get his number?

I would stop reading the NYJW, but I just love it better than the Sunday comics.

9:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Vaad, fed up with various Kashrut violations, simply gave the owners of the store a choice: sell the store to an owner who we feel is trustworthy, or lose your hasgacha."

Actually, that's not completely true either. The Vaad also gave Bolender the option of having somebody else run the day-to-day store operations while he handled other store business from a remote office (even across the street if he wanted). They just wanted him out of the store.

10:02 AM  
Blogger Yamamah said...

Do a little googling of harry cohen's kashrus history and draw your own conclusions. In my opinion, the fact that the article quoted him as an authority and in support for the anti-vaad position is comical and actually buffers the vaad's stance.

10:53 AM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

As always the NYJW has an agenda, and as always the agenda is to be agianst the thing which appears to be the "frummer" of the stances, regardless of who is right or wrong (they are like the NYT on Republicans). The VAAD has a right to pull the hashgacha on any establishment they feel may be in violation or will be in violation of their policies. Rabbi Eisen is on of the biggest mumchim in Kashrus in the country if not the world and the 5 Towns should be proud to have him in charge of the neighborhoods’ kashrus. If a few trouble makers or holier than though people in the community have a problem with his hashgacha I would like to know who they would rely upon. Rabbi Eisen is an Ehrliche Yid who has no ulterior motive other than insuring that the standards of kashrus in the 5 Towns are the highest possible. If someone has a problem with that let them find another community in which to buy their food (but they had better look pretty far away because most of the hechsheirim in the greater NY & NJ area go to him for advice).

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rabbi Eisen is on of the biggest mumchim in Kashrus in the country if not the world

????????????? I would just like to see some backup on that quote.

11:34 AM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

Ask almost anyone involved in Kashrus (you can start at the OU) and they would back up my claims.

11:46 AM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

Clearly the Rabbinic leaders of the community felt this way as well bringing him in to oversee the VAAD in the first place. I would like to understand something-because a few people (and from what I can gather very few given the virtual ghost town which is currently GG and from talking to many people in the 5 Towns)do not agree with him on this issue he loses his whole neemanus in general? It is his job to make sure that kashrus standards in the community are kept at a high level and that is all he was doing. If you do not trust his judgment I guess you have been eating elsewhere these last few weeks since this whole thing came to light because as far as I can tell the VVAD is still the hashgacha on nearly all of the kosher establishments in Town.

11:53 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Ok, I am a supporter of GG but I am not happy that they spoke to the NYJW, we didn't need more publicity for this community.

Because I defend GG, I am being bombarded with all kinds of information to change my mind which is still hearsay, is confusing me because A) I did not move into a neighborhood that was RUN by a Kehillah of Rabbonim, I moved into a neighborhood where all the Rabbonim got along, and there were far fewer Rabbonim then than there are now.

B) the attitude of the Rabbonim at the time was that every Jew is important and sweet, live and let live and you will climb the ladder one step at a time without bullying.

C) and of course we didn't have the attitude where only the wealthiest, the best, the smartest and the greatest will survive.

Having said all that, I haven't been sleeping at night because of this controversy, it literally hurts me. The out and out, as one other blogger clearly put it "viciousness" of the attacks here, of adam l'chaveiro, of one town to the other, one Jew to the other, on Yid to the Rabbonim, is sickening, it literally turns my stomach.

I might not have blind faith, but it doesn't mean that I have no faith at all. I saw this week's paper and even the Bollenders asked that we stop it.

We are supposed to be grown ups. Maybe we should try to act like adults and try to come up with some constructive and productive suggestions instead of trying to rip everyone apart and trying to figure out who is behind the anon mask.

Here is one thing that I questioned. Why couldn't the VAAD tell GG that if they didn't comply with a certain violation they would post it, like the gov't does, such as "The VAAD regretfully announces that GG is in violation of ............. and has 30 days to correct this violation before losing certification" and have the Rabbonim sign it. Then if GG complies, the VAAD could have posted another letter stating "GG has appropirately complied with the VAAD's requests to our satisfaction and remains in good standing with the VAAD."

In that way, the consumers would see for themselves if the stores have violations and if they are in constant battle with the VAAD, if their RAV is signing the letter without having anyone else force this information down their throats, and it is certainly a much easier way of having ANY store comply with the VAAD without strong arming them after a PILE of so called violations.

No store would want the public to see more than one notice being posted. Having one notice posted would be enough for any store to know that the VAAD means business and had they taken such an approach, I am sure GG would have been kept in line years ago.

Having kept these so called incidents under wraps for so many years as they have claimed hasn't been a favor neither to GG nor to the consumers.

So at this point, I would suggest that they find a way to make this work for all of us.

If their main problem is with Mark Bollender and not with the other siblings, I am wondering if for the sake of their Parent's legacy and the parnassah of the other sib's, if Mark would take a silent partner's stance and allow the other sib's to run the operation, and if this would be enough of a compromise to the Rabbonim in the community to allow them and the neighborhood to join as one again and move on.

What do the rest of you think about that? If Mark agreed to step out of the picture would you agree to ask your RAV to reinstate the store with VAAD certification?

11:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ask almost anyone involved in Kashrus (you can start at the OU) and they would back up my claims.

Why did he leave the OU then, and what happened at Nathans and Kosher Stop in Brooklyn?

12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the VVAD is still the hashgacha on nearly all of the kosher establishments in Town.

Well actually ALSO RABBI REISMAN!

12:01 PM  
Blogger Romach said...

I still maintain (not knowing any inside information, and not having an opinion on whether the VAAD is right or wrong - I think there is an argument regarding not bringing in a second hashgacha) that the VAAD should have spelled out the halachic issues in their letter, not just the secular ones.

If you make two accusations and support only one, the natural assumption is you have nothing to support the second. It can only help the VAAD to detail what the halachic problems were, the steps taken to cure them, and how the steps were ignored or ineffective. How can it hurt them?

12:05 PM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

As far as I can tell Rabbi Eisen left the OU because a better opportunity presented itself in the 5 Towns- cna't fault him for wanting to further his career. Rabbi Reisman's hashgacha is not community approved but rather imposed.

12:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as I can tell Rabbi Eisen left the OU because a better opportunity presented itself in the 5 Towns- cna't fault him for wanting to further his career

Well that doesn't really sound right, because it doesn't account for the time that he was Mashgiach in Brooklyn.

12:27 PM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

As far as I know (and my information is very relyable) he was a consultant for certain kashrus establishments in Brooklyn and never worked for them full time. He want from working at the OU full time to working in the 5 Towns.

12:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as I know (and my information is very relyable

Gee, I thought that my information was reliable and he was the mashgiach for Nathan's and Kosher Stop.

12:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom,

How DO we find out RYE's credentials so we can put an end to this debate? Was he or was he not the Mashgiach at Nathan's and Kosher Stop the two Brooklyn establshments that were involved in real treifus?

12:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because some wealthy community members got the VAAD started and stood up to speak for the community, how do we really know what the members of the community really feel. Is there a way to set up an annonymous vote where all members of the community can vote about how they feel about the issues such as:

1) how the VAAD handled this situation

2) or if they feel that the Kehillah should be running this town, and what that means exactly.

3) If we all agree that we want only ONE exclusive hechsher in town.

I wonder if we took a vote, what the true outcome would be. Some shul discussion said that the proof is that GG is empty but that isn't proof. Because people feel that the Rabbonim assered them from going in, they are afraid to do so does not mean that they feel it is right.

A true democracy would be to take a vote and see if the majority of the neighborhood wants the Rabbonim to make the decisions for the community or not. And if so, we would like them to get involved in more areas such as the Yeshivas as a whole.

Maybe Larry can print ballots with numerical codes so that no two ballots are identical and people would have to sign for each ballot they picked up so that no one picked up more than one. Then they could only vote once. Anyone who doesn't bother to pick up a ballot doesn't feel they want to be heard. The ballots then can be tallied by community volunteers at the paper which is neutral with no Rabbonim or interested parties present.

The results of the votes can be announced in the paper and then the whole issue of whether WE want the Rabbonim of the town to run the community or not could be put to bed.

1:07 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...
ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...

(Does anyone hear an echo in here?)

1:17 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Some things are just worth repeating I guess, did anyone answer the first post? Stop being so sensitive. Be flattered that someone agreed.

1:21 PM  
Blogger FrumWithQuestions said...

Speaking to a Rav who knows a lot about Kashrus and gives in depth shiurim about Kashrus but is not involved in any kashrus organization except doing research for them in labs told me the following: "The directors of these Kashrus agencies come and go because of better job opportunities, not because something went wrong" Just like IT jobs and any other job when a bettern opportunity comes by people usually take it. As long as these Kashrus groups replace them with someone just as reliable it is not a problem. The loshan harah is rediculous that is going on and people should trust their Rabbis that they are doing the right thing. I asked a Rav on a certain Vaad and he told me that the Rabaim don't get paid and it is non for profit and the only people who get paid are the mashgiachs who make sure our food is kosher. We should be greatful that Vaads exist so we are able to eat kosher food because some people who don't live in heavy Jewish neighborhoods don't have that opportunity.

1:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

all we can say is

welcome to the "JEWISH MAFIA"

2:18 PM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

I think that if you do this poll you will come to the sad conclusion that most people in the 5 Towns simply don't care. They want to know where they can and can't eat and shop and that has and always will be a Rabbinic decision and they want no further involvement. If they bring someone else in problems will be found with them as well. There have been, for the most part, no problems with VAAD (as far as the community is concerned) for the last 5 years and everyone (with the exception of a few "zealots" from Far Rockaway") has trusted their decisions, but as soon as it makes a decision that is not popular amongst some people in the community we are calling for an overhaul. GROW UP. In a frum community tough decisions need to be made from time to time and when it comes to issues of Kashrus AND THE NEEMANUS OF A KOSHER ESTABLISHMENT these decisions need to be made by the rabbonim.

2:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My Rav- DID NOT sign the letter-I was recently given a copy of this story-which might have run in another newspaper-I am not sure-but it certainly did resonate with me, given all the loshen hora and motzei shem ra being spoken. Please read this!

Rav Sheftel Neuberger shlit”a reminded me last week of a dramatic episode recounted by Rav Shalom Schwadron, zt”l, the famed Magid of Yerushalayim. Those of us who had the privilege of once listening to him in person will have no trouble imagining him standing among us, and throwing out the punch line in his deep, gravely voice. (The story does not appear in any of Rav Pesach Krohn’s books, at least according to the recollection of his rebbetzin. Several others I spoke to, however, recall the story attributed to the Magid.)

Some people will not be satisfied without Cross-Currents enmeshing itself in every current controversy. They will not be satisfied with this piece. Others, hopefully, will find something in this tale to slake their curiosity, while still meeting the extra demands upon us during this week of Teshuva.

The war years – WWI that is – were the worst for the poor of Jerusalem. Much of the community subsisted on meager charitable contributions from European Jews. Most of those funds were choked off as the Allies fought the Axis, which included the Ottoman empire that had long controlled the Holy Land.

A poor couple sent a young child to the grocery store with a few coins for some basic supplies. Whem returned with them, plus some change, his parents realized that somehow he had taken a valuable gold coin that they had been saving as their next egg. They immediately ran to the grocer and explained. He denied ever receiving such a coin. The parents knew that he must have received it, and pushed their case. The grocer remained adamant, and passions grew.

There were charges and counter-charges, and batei-din (Jewish law panels) convened to consider them. The case became the talk of the town, and each side had its army of supporters. Nothing was resolved, but acrimony remained in ample measure.

Ten years later, a newcomer to Jerusalem sought out the grocer, and the parents. He could explain it all. He had lived in Jerusalem at the time, and had no food to offer his young family. When he saw a child walking in the street with a gold coin, he could not resist the temptation. He found a way to distract the child, and exchange another coin for the golden one.

Rav Schwadron then took charge of the story’s application. “By now, all the protagonists in the story have gone over to the Olam HaEmes (the World of Truth). Would you like to know where they all are? I will tell you. The grocer is in Gan Eden (Paradise). He was, after all, entirely blameless. His subsequent actions against his accusers were understandable, even if not perfect. The parents are there too. They were not unjustified in suspecting the grocer of theft. They were wrong, but not unreasonable. Even the thief is in Gan Eden. His repentance was long, thorough, and heart-felt.

“But there were others involved – all those who joined the fracas, who took sides in a dispute that was not really their concern. You want to know where they are? They all went to Gehinom (hell)!”

A pause, and many more decibels applied to the final line: “And they will never get out!”

Perhaps, on second thought, this is all the response that is necessary.
Look into yourself before you speak-loshen hora destroys lives unnecessarily!

2:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Honestly frum,

If you were "honestly frum" you wouldn't be so judgmental. You wouldn't be speaking for the entire community, just for yourself, and you wouldn't be calling people from Far Rockaway "zeolots". So maybe it is "you" who needs to grow up.

4:50 PM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

Anonymous 4:50.
I was not speaking on behalf of the community I was merely doing what everyone else on this blogg has been doing an guesstimated what the outcome would be of the "great" idea of polling the community to get rid of the Rabbonim. In addition- I was not referring to everyone in FR as Zealots, only those who wish to impose their holier than though kashrus standards on a community where the standards are already very high. You, as am I, entitled to your own opinion on the whole situation, but coming on this forum and baselessly attacking Rabbi Eisen, without mentioning any other kashrus problem is baseless motzi shem rah on a talmid chacham.

5:41 PM  
Anonymous talmid said...

I have spoken to people very high up in the OU who have all said that Rabbi Eisen is as good as they come in kashrus. He left the OU because this was a great opportunity for him, and one that, as sad as they were to see him go, they knew he richly deserved. Again, I would encourage people not to guess about these things. Speak to people who work in kashrus about his credentials and his integrity. You will be impressed.

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually I can't get anyone in the OU to speak to me at all. Maybe you can give me a name and number. All I get is that they don't comment on another Hechsher.

10:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You, as am I, entitled to your own opinion on the whole situation, but coming on this forum and baselessly attacking Rabbi Eisen, without mentioning any other kashrus problem is baseless motzi shem rah on a talmid chacham.

Once again you are judging. There are many people on this blog. I personally never said anything about Rabbi Eisen, you are just assuming that, and I don't understand your reference to any other Kashrus problem, so you are again a little to bal gaividik putting everyone else down.

11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is a joke to read these posts. People talking w/o knowledge.

People are blaming the VAAD yet it is almost every Rabbi who has signed the letter. These Rabbi's are not all on the VAAD.

There is much to be said about unity. The VAAD, even if you disagree with them did give GG a chance. GG was given the opportunity many times to do the right thing.

In light of Monsey, you should be proud of the VAAD's reputation and residents should understand the importance of a central authority that ALL the RABBI's seem to stand behind.

11:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You question Rav Eisen's OU past, what about R' Kravitz?

Stop focusing on trying to dig up dirt,

11:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You question Rav Eisen's OU past, what about R' Kravitz?
Stop focusing on trying to dig up dirt,

Actually I got the same answer on both, so please stop being so angry and judgmental. I was simply trying to find out information for myself to figure out who I can trust and what is going on, since there is so much L"H and badmouthing going around here.

But thanks for implying that there is some dirt on R' Kravitz that was nobel of you.

11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well we are still rehashing the same old things:

We are not happy with the VAAD
We are not happy about not being happy with the VAAD
We are not happy that GG took a new hashgacha
We are not happy that GG is empty and losing business
We are not happy that this beautiful and clean store is going to waste
We are not happy with the L"H and yet we keep going at it
We would like the community to reunite yet we keep insulting each other

There are more and more rumors being spread, yet the VAAD said they refuse to speak about it. Where is all this information coming from?

Is there any way for this to be resolved? GG has put in an ad in this weeks 5T paper asking for this to stop, basically apologizing and asking if there is a way to be recertified.

I am begging the Rabbonim of this community to come together again to find an alternate solution to heal the neighborhood and pull us all back together. I am begging the Rabbonim of the neighborhood to find a way to stop the chilul Hashem that is happening here, and believe me a speach from the Bimah is not going to do it, too many people have been hurt, being told to stop is not going to make it happen. There is too many aveiros happening every single second with the L"H and rechilus compounding day by day.

I am begging the Rabbonim to consider a way to reconsider their extremely harsh consequence of ordering the store sold, and figure out a way to recertify the store and bring peace to the community once again. The Bollenders have already suffered the humiliation the VAAD intended, they suffered a loss of income, and they unfortunately have also already have suffered a loss of health.

But we as a community have suffered as well. We have been humiliated publicly, we are fighting with our friends and even within our homes between spouses and with our children and siblings.

This has gone way beyond and way past where the VAAD thought the punishment would fall. I am quite sure that the VAAD felt that they were teaching the family a lesson and it would be a lesson to any establishment that would dare stand up against the VAAD. However, I don't believe in my heart, that any RAV thought that it would destroy the community or that it would start a wild fire such as it did. I am sure that they did not expect a mud slinging campaign trying to vilify the credibility, respectability or reputation of either Rabbi Eisen, Rabbi Reisman or Rabbi Kravitz.

I am quite sure that they didn't expect people to start a mini-war between the Five Towns and Far Rockaway, and I am quite sure that they didn't expect the surge of Loshon Horah, Motzi Shem Rah and Richilus that has been the norm rather than the exeption in town, even in the sanctity of the shuls.

I have sent an email to some Rabbonim begging to reconsider certifying the store on a trial basis while at the same time finding a more "reasonable" consequence for the main sibling that they felt was not cooperating with the VAAD. I suggested that they do what Yeshivas do and suspend him from the store for a six month periiod in return for recertification for a six month trial period. If all goes well for that six month period, they can keep recertifying the store.

Again, I am quite sure that the Bollenders, according to their ad, are quite willing to work something out with the VAAD. I am also quite sure that the community would applaud the VAAD for bringing this situation to a more palitable conclusion

11:54 PM  

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