Winter Vacation Rant
Just a little point:
I assume that the boys' and girls' Yeshivas give winter vacation on two separate yet consecutive weeks in order to prevent any improper mixing of the sexes over in Miami (or wherever the hot Orthodox vacation spot du jour might be). But I must weigh in on the subject. Having two separate, consecutive weeks of being required to take off from work to somehow find a way to entertain kids of different ages (but the same gender!) makes my life a bit of a living nightmare.
On the one hand, no bickering among siblings over American Girl Store vs. New Roc City. On the other, I manage to have the distinct pleasure of getting to visit both! On (and I might have mentioned this salient point) two separate, consecutive weeks.
Joy.
I assume that the boys' and girls' Yeshivas give winter vacation on two separate yet consecutive weeks in order to prevent any improper mixing of the sexes over in Miami (or wherever the hot Orthodox vacation spot du jour might be). But I must weigh in on the subject. Having two separate, consecutive weeks of being required to take off from work to somehow find a way to entertain kids of different ages (but the same gender!) makes my life a bit of a living nightmare.
On the one hand, no bickering among siblings over American Girl Store vs. New Roc City. On the other, I manage to have the distinct pleasure of getting to visit both! On (and I might have mentioned this salient point) two separate, consecutive weeks.
Joy.
posted by orthomom at 11:00 PM
104 Comments:
Im with you.
TAG and Darchei are making us parents miserable with this stupid game they play. I don't work, so I'm not missing any days but trust me I am losing it just like you are. We all are. And next week it starts allover again with the girls.
But don't you fond they still have so many other things to bicker about? ...Or is it just my kids?
Anonymous said...
But don't you fond they still have so many other things to bicker about? ...Or is it just my kids?
LOL - it's soooo not just your kids, don't worry.
Right on, Orthomom.
I'm sure the motives of the yeshiva administrators are meritorious. They seem to have forgotten that there is such a thing as a family and that families might like to do things together. They also seem to have forgotten that it's tough for parents to take off for two weeks in a row.
Can't someone figure out how to get this fixed?
Can you fix my tuition while you're at it?
for that matter, would it really be that bad to have winter break when many working parents already have 2 (or more) days off? my son is starting his daycare next week. lucky for us becuase they are closed this week and i don't know who would have stayed home with him.
I got news for you. When both schools had the same vacations, parents, yes parents, called up and complained.
for that matter, would it really be that bad to have winter break when many working parents already have 2 (or more) days off?
I agree fully. I still can't understand why yeshivas refuse to let their breaks overlap with the secular holiday season. Orthodox parents already have to work so much harder just to pay yeshiva tuition for many children. They deserve a vacation. Why make their vacation planning immeasurably harder by intentionally offsetting breaks from days they already have off?
It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The haves and the have nots all over again.
The Yeshivot (the haves) can dictate every aspect of life to the parents (the have nots).
This no mixing of genders is crazy, maybe my male and female children should live in different houses so that they dont know that there are other genders.
Parents who are involved and appropirate will properly supervise their children, and those who are always lax will always be lax.
Ah, so that's why we have so many American visitors here at the Begin Center in Jlm. Even Esther Joel was here with her son.
"I got news for you. When both schools had the same vacations, parents, yes parents, called up and complained."
Are you basing this revelation on the histrionic kvetching of some isolated idiot you sat next to at a Shabbos table?
Are you that histrionically kvetching idiot?
And in any case, what's your point?
Why are you complaining, it’s all in your hands. Either send them to HANC, HAFTR etc. Or you can send them to a more frum school that does not give any vacation. You chose this hashkafah in life, stick with it.
Send your boys to Yeshiva Ketana and Yeshiva FR. They at least partially overlap with TAG.
And the parent body is almost the exact same (despite people's assumptions to the contrary). So is the basic hashkafa.
Anonymous said...
Why are you complaining, it’s all in your hands. Either send them to HANC, HAFTR etc. Or you can send them to a more frum school that does not give any vacation. You chose this hashkafah in life, stick with it.
Great. Why didn't I think of that? Switch my kid or shut up about aspects of my choice that don't thrill me. That rule of thumb would make all of our lives so much more pleasant, I'm sure. Don't like the dessert you ordered? Shh. Don't even attempt to make conversation with your dinner companion about the fact that it was less that delicious. It was your choice to order the chocolate mousse. The new car you drive makes a funny sound when you accelerate? Don't call the dealer to complain! It was your choice to get that car. Not happy with how the president you voted for is shaping up? You don't ever have a right to express your view on his bad policies. You forfeited that right to talk critically about him when you chose to vote for him.
Oh wait, that isn't what you meant?
Orthomom, I really don't agree with you on your last point. I think you are comparing apples and oranges.This is not the same as complaining about a car that isn't working right. The school that YOU chose has a certain hashkafa and rules that you were well aware of before registering them. Why would someone order mousse when they knew it would be bad?!
You spend a lot of time complaing about the hashkafa of both your kids schools and none of what you complain about is some mysterious secret that one only finds out until sending there. There are plenty of schools in the neighborhood that are very similar hashkaficly and might suit your needs better. So quit complaining, these schools are not changing hashkafa for you or anyone else who is unhappy!
TAG deliberately schedules its break to fall out later than HAFTR or HALB (and I guess Shulamith, though I don't know for sure). My son's school vacation actually approximates TAG's, though it begins earlier with a ridiculous half day for Thursday and ends much earlier. He doesn't get a full week off, just about 3 days and a Sunday IIRC. Long school breaks are difficult for working parents who often have to take so many days for Yom Tov that they can't afford an additional 2 weeks for mid-winter.
Orthomom, I don't know why some of your readers seem to think that once you register your child for a particular school you should consider yourself barred forever after from voicing any complaint about it.
As for your places, I don't think I'll be going back to the American Girl place, but I would put even more effort into avoiding New Roc. At the former, you could just look around without buying, but the latter is like taking a bunch of bills and burning them one after the other. The rides and games just eat up money.
You spend a lot of time complaing about the hashkafa of both your kids schools and none of what you complain about is some mysterious secret that one only finds out until sending there. There are plenty of schools in the neighborhood that are very similar hashkaficly and might suit your needs better. So quit complaining, these schools are not changing hashkafa for you or anyone else who is unhappy!
That is so wrong on so many levels. First: asking for the chance to vacation together as a family is FAR from a hashkafic issue. Second: I can ABSOLUTELY take issue with hashkafic decisions my kids' schools make - do you honestly believe that any one school is going to have a hashkafa that is perfect for anyone? You think if I switch my children's school, everything will automatically fall into place hashkafically? What an absurd notion. Your thought process here is way off. And my car and dessert examples are perfectly on point.
Personally, i think the screwie overlapping winter breaks are great.
I get to go anywhere I want, yet avoid the crazy lines and overcrowding, and best of all...no frummies to ruin everything!
Heh. Sometimes this "mixing of the sexes" stuff goes too far. In the cemetery in which my father is buried, the men and women are buried in different areas. As if mixing will take place after death?
i distinctly remember a few years ago when winter vacation (at halb and haftr) was over the Martin Luther King, weekend, so at least there was ONE day i wouldnt have to take off. then they switched it, and i was told that it was because flights were cheaper after the holiday weekend! continuing on that vein, the vacations will NEVER be at the same time as the secular world, because then flights would cost much more...
i distinctly remember a few years ago when winter vacation (at halb and haftr) was over the Martin Luther King, weekend, so at least there was ONE day i wouldnt have to take off. then they switched it, and i was told that it was because flights were cheaper after the holiday weekend! continuing on that vein, the vacations will NEVER be at the same time as the secular world, because then flights would cost much more...
i distinctly remember a few years ago when winter vacation (at halb and haftr) was over the Martin Luther King, weekend, so at least there was ONE day i wouldnt have to take off. then they switched it, and i was told that it was because flights were cheaper after the holiday weekend! continuing on that vein, the vacations will NEVER be at the same time as the secular world, because then flights would cost much more...
sorry about the triple clicking, im new at this..
First: asking for the chance to vacation together as a family is FAR from a hashkafic issue. Second: I can ABSOLUTELY take issue with hashkafic decisions my kids' schools make - do you honestly believe that any one school is going to have a hashkafa that is perfect for anyone? You think if I switch my children's school, everything will automatically fall into place hashkafically? What an absurd notion. Your thought process here is way off. And my car and dessert examples are perfectly on point.
9:42 AM
First of all from the sound of this thread the vacation scheduling does sound like a hashkafic issue "mixing of the sexes on vacation" You are now changing your tune saying they don't want you to have a "family vacation" I'm sure the schools would have no problem with your family vacationing together.But your comments on this thread don't say that.
I'll agree with you on the fact that you are not going to agree with every hashgafic decision the school you send your children to make, just don't expect them to change their hashgafa for you.
Third, are you even sure that this is the reason they gave their vacation in this manor? Did you speak with the administration? Did they tell you they don't want "mixing of the sexes" or were they just simply to lazy to coordinate with the other schools?
For one thing, I know that there has been meetings among the principals of ALL 5T schools in order to coordinate vacations (to coincide.)But some school have different priorities not congruent only with 'mixing' they also have their Rebbeim and teachers' schedules that they try to work with. Many Rebbeim, for example, do not want to be off on a holiday weekend when they really want to clear up some issues they may have with their banks (closed MLK day etc.) or the various local/state/federal government agencies they may need to visit.
Oms kids schools aren't doing it out of laziness. They are basically brother/sister schools.
The banner ad on OM's page right now is for "The New Serbia". That's just weird.
Who determines which ads run? E-Blogger?
well, consider yourself lucky that you can take off at all and do things with your kids. I am unable to take off and my kids have hardly any friends who are not away. I feel really bad for them because they are bored out of their boxes at home with the babysitter all week long. The few neighbors I have who don't go away are in schools with different vacation.
maybe the schools dont think people should be running on vacations all the time maybe they feel that the idea that kids feel they must go on vacation and the idea of everyone being so materialistic is not good and therefore if they do not give the boys and girls off the same week you will not be able to go on vacation.
and about complaining about hashkafahs of a school once you send your kid to a school then all the hashkafahs that you knew they had be4 going to the school are off limits u can complain about changes, new hashkafahs, or a new implementation of the hashkafahs in a more vigilante way but everything u knew about before hand is off limits because u knew about it and sent ur kid there anyway. would it be fair to send ur kid to a chassidish yeshiva and then complain about teaching in yiddish
You live in such a different world than the rest of us, it is sometimes very difficult to digest your concerns under the pretext of orthodoxy. This is simply rampant American materialism and clique-ism under the pretense of hashkafa.
Here in the real world, where there is no such thing as winter vacations, let alone trips, we read these remarks with mouths agape -- not out of envy.
What a waste of potential American jewry remains.
Is Halb not considered a Yeshiva?
The girls and boys, and highschools, are all off the same time.
Common Sense.
Is Halb not considered a Yeshiva?
The girls and boys, and highschools, are all off the same time.
Common Sense.
Betshemesh:
I love how there's always someone around to play the "stupid americans with screwed up pririties"card. I read planty of blogs written by Israelis and guess what? They take family vacations? Ever read Jameel? He and his family take vacations all the time. "No such things as trips?" Do they miss the point also? You're an idiot. Living in Israel can't change that.
Mj:
What are you talking about? Giving kids vacation at the same time has nothing to do with taking trips. Why can't a family go on a local hike together or go bowling? That's the point here. Not whether the yeshivas are sick of familes going on trips that you think are too materialistic. Trust me, I'm a parent in the yeshivas that I think om is talking about. The materirilistic parents who want to take their kids on ski trips or beach trips do it anyhow. They take one kids or the other out of school to do it.
The people who are suffering here are the people like me and presumably om who work full time and don't have the luxury of taking kids to far out places. I also can't miss work, unlike om. This is very hard for me and I feel terriblr for my kids. Also, one of my kids has severe learning disabilities and can't be taken out of school for a family trip, even if I wanted to go on one. The schools don't consider that when they give separate vacations.
hey, whats wrong with ski trips?
rocking horse ranch is a very nice pashut place.
Flatbushrenegade, I think we are discussing a very diferent situation. You admit your kids are teenagers. I can't tell my schoolage and younger kids to entertain themselves.
The moe moden schools usually follow the BJE vacation schdeule.
MLK day can concide with the yeshiva vacation dependingh on when the holiday falls (usually 2nd Monday of January.
The issue boils down to the fact that Right-of-Center schools try to:
(1) socially engineer the lives of parents and families as a way of "fixing what is wrong in our communities"
(2) try to make a point to the far-Right establishment that they more closely align themselves with that circle than with Centrist and MO schools; but typically, this is defining themselves more by what they are not, than what THEY really stand for
I don't even want to get into when schools that give off for Isru Chag because their teachers need a "travel day" (people with other jobs don't get such a luxury) or refuse to be officially off for Thanksgiving and around Christmas (when they know that half of the families pack out).
These schools take parents for granted and merely do things to "make a point"--and try to frame it in Halachic or logical terms.
Why are people trying to give reasons why families should or should not take vacations? No school should dictate whether or not you go on a family vacation. They can dictate when they give you off.
I'll even go a step further -- though I admit it's somewhat off the topic: I would *love* it if schools ran year-round with obvious breaks for Yomim Tovim as well as a few longer vacations *and* a slightly shorter school day.
The administration and faculty -- particularly English faculty -- complain that they can't adequately cover necessary material in the amount of time allotted. Everyone complains that there is no time for valid field trips, extra-curricular activities, or the kinds of things that can offset some of the necessary boredom kids experience. Most of us complain about the escalating costs of camp and the expectation by schools that all children attend camp.
So, yes, school would cost more, but I'd be thrilled if we could channel some of those resources into more robust schools!
ML King was a very great man. The schools should be off in honor of him.
Hikes in the cold? Only those who go to warm places can enjoy the vacations.
The vacations were moved from December out of greed. Flights and hotels are much cheaper in January when the public school world is in school.
ML King was a very great man. The schools should be off in honor of him.
That's ok, but the schools should approparelty honor his memory, which most don't do.
The theme here seems to be bashing the right wing schools for what they are labeling "same sex vacations" If anyone had bothered calling their school, the truth is totally different than what everyone assumes. The only reason TAG is giving vacation the week of the 29th has to do with the Math regent that the 9th and 10 graders take the week of the 22nd. It has nothing at all to do with anything else. The other schools all follow the BJE calandar. Darchei usually doesn't give off because of Bitul Torah. How about some positive attitudes about our yeshivot instead of always complaining and bashing. I sincerily hope you don't do this in front of your children- no wonder the youth of today are so chutzpadik!!
You are correct about the Regents wrecking the vacation schedule at TAG. Why Darchei chose last Monday and not next like YFR (who has the same Regents constraint as TAG) and YKLI you will have to ask them.
Anon 9:38:
Why don't YOU check your facts before you act like a jerk. Darchai doesn't give any vacation because of bitul torah? Then what the heck were my boys doing home for three days this week??? What do you call that? A non-vacation? Om is spot on. My girls are off next week, my boys had off this week. Why can't the yeshivas get it together? And if its by design instead of laziness, then they are cutting off our noses (family time) to spite our faces (keeping boys and girls separate).
Bloggers here complain of kids home on vacation...they complain if schools give no vacation and they complain that schools do not give the same vacation...My view is that the entire midwinter thing is unnecessary.
Several years ago, one school administrator pleaded for sanity on this issue by sending a letter to the entire community only to be ignored by every other school.
Its time to speak out as parents against midwinter break and keep the kids in school.
Speak out against midwinter? How could anyone suggest speaking such kefira. I for one am very happy that my kids get only 165 days of school for the huge tuition I pay!
165 school days? I thought state law mandates 180!
Don't we all feel so much better now that we have bashed Darchei Torah and TAG? It feels so ggod doesn't it? Makes writing that tuition check just a bit easier no?
And to think all of our kids get to read this too!!
What great chinuch for our children!
Thanks Orthomom for creating this wonderful vehicle for us to vent our daily frustations.
This is bashing? Anon, you are weird. You should go live in Saudi Arabia or Bnei Brak. This thread is pretty mild as bashing goes.
So mild bashing is good for our children?
BTW, I do not think they give midwinter vacation in either Saudi Arabia or Bnei Brak - do they?
I'm not sure which schools this post refers to. The ones that I know don't give mid-winter vacation for boys at all.
Anon is absolutely correct. Anon is weird. After all the other anon rightfully points out how few days of school our kids get. Anon wants us to check facts.
So many Anons...so little time.
Anyone looking to stand up and identify themselves here?
Oh please anon...how do you expect us to be comfortable bashing our schools if we actually have to identify ourselves. Besides I need to complain about school tuition so that I can have more money to spend on my midwinter vacation!
I do not beleiev that anyone here bashed any indvidual or school. Frustration over having 2 weeks of children off from school due to an extreme interpertation of Haskafah is not bashing.
The truth is is that the day school and Yeshiva administrators could care less about the parents' needs. Unless, of course, the parents are multi-millionaires. Then, they kiss their feet and do anything they can to make them happy. (One principal told me that he does whatever one of the super-wealthy parents tell him to do. I have no problem telling you who this principal is.) I hope one day someone treats them in the comtemptuous way they treat the average working stiff parent.
"I still can't understand why yeshivas refuse to let their breaks overlap with the secular holiday season."
SAR Academy and High School do. They are also co-ed. They are also Zionist. (Three strikes?)
Is it to keep the sexes separate or to make sure TAG girls don't mix with HAFTR girls?
Besides what difference does it make when the vacations are? Just take your kids out of school when you want to. It's not like they're learning anything.
so, p-o'd mom, which principal is it???
For a change Orthomom brings up a worthwhile point that boys and girls schools vacation are at different times causing hardships to parents. However the post starts off with the wrong words. I ASSUME. Instead of starting the usual rant by bitter and pathetic right wing bashers, the proper thing would be to call the school, or have someone call the school, before speculating on the reason for the vacation schedule. Lets try getting the facts.
"I assume that the boys' and girls' Yeshivas give winter vacation on two separate yet consecutive weeks in order to prevent any improper mixing of the sexes over in Miami (or wherever the hot Orthodox vacation spot du jour might be)."
I have no idea of the reasons behind this, but considering the age of most of the children who have off, I find it hard to believe that you have the correct premise.
of course thats the reason. the tag high school gets off next week as well. parents have asked the school administrations numerous times to consider giving vacations at the same time. i was at a darchei event a few years ago which had the setup of a town-hall type meeting. someone asked rabbi bender if he would please try to coordinate vacations. he brought up the problem of boys and girls having off at the same time.
I dont believe Darchei high school gives any vacation, I cant imagine the TAG high school girls will be mingling with 4 year old thru 13 year old boys.
Darchei high school had a long weekend in lieu of a winter vacation. It was last week. Now my girls are off next week while my son is back in school. Unecessary to split up the family.
The school schedules make it near impossible for parents to spend time with their children and then we hear about kids at risk and how the parents need to be doing more.
(I'm planning a post on this subject after a small family gathering where vacations and school schedules as complicated as planning an invasion were being discussed).
Anonymous at 12:03 AM said:
165 school days? I thought state law mandates 180!
State law mandates 180 days for state schools, i.e. public schools.
he brought up the problem of boys and girls having off at the same time.
Does RB feel that his olem is so irresponsible that there will be problems??
Yeshiva break is a slap in the face to the working parents who pay full tuition. Our schools' teachers and administrators want cheap flights and hotel rooms, so they declare a vacation week during the busiest time of the year for many working parents. Some of us who work for a living will never ever in 100 years be able to take off this week. Has vashalom our children should get the torah education we pay for!
To Anonymous above:
Any time of year is the busiest time of year for some working parents. I work for a living, and I absolutely cannot take off time from work at the end of December or the end of June. Does this mean there is a plot against me because my kids have off from school the end of June? Obviously not. I am sure that your children receive a torah education even going to a school with a winter vacation. Why are you so angry at the school(s) where you send your children?
165 school days? I thought state law mandates 180!
12:03 AM
180 days for public schools-private schools essentially can do what they want five a diploma wo a Regents diploma, number of days etc.
Count the days that kids go to school and except for boys in some schools who go on Sundays-and then no secualr studies-it is far less than 180.
rebba shlita said...
i think ther should be no winter vacation. they already have chanukah vacation, pesach vacation, succos vacation and 2 and a half months in the summer. we as working parents get a certain amount of vacation time per year. during this year i must use these days for yom tov. and yes if one has the option of kids winter vacation day or chol hamoed he/she should pick chol hamoed.
i think with succos pesach and an entire summer oh yes and chanukah vacation. maybe the yeshivas should give off on days like x-mas and new years when a lot of parents are off. i pay all this money for tuition and play groups and they are always home.
just get rid of winter vacation once and for all.
Agreed
Anonymous said...
rebba shlita said...
i think ther should be no winter vacation. they already have chanukah vacation, pesach vacation, succos vacation and 2 and a half months in the summer. we as working parents get a certain amount of vacation time per year. during this year i must use these days for yom tov. and yes if one has the option of kids winter vacation day or chol hamoed he/she should pick chol hamoed.
i think with succos pesach and an entire summer oh yes and chanukah vacation. maybe the yeshivas should give off on days like x-mas and new years when a lot of parents are off. i pay all this money for tuition and play groups and they are always home.
just get rid of winter vacation once and for all.
Agreed
Orthomom-this may be me the same agreed-but I am recopying for another point-sadly the vacation period can be one of tragedy-schools cover themselvers by warning about it and tell parents you must chaperone kids-Ortho-when you have teenagers lets see how one can take charge of ones kids-more vacation is just more time R"L for kids to get into trouble and chas vshalom tragedy-eliminate midwinter vacation.
Count the days that kids go to school and except for boys in some schools who go on Sundays-and then no secualr studies-it is far less than 180
I teach English in a yeshiva in Far Rockaway and I counted a total of 130 days. Compared to 183 in public school, we tend to accelerate the learning.
Most of the students can handle it. the one's who have a problem are the ones that listen to the rebbeim who says secular studies are shtuss. Those students tend to fall into the kollel cracks, wake up one day married with 8 kids and realize they need to make a parnassah. Of course, they do not have the rudimentary skills necessary to thrive in college let alone, get in. It's a shame.
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