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Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Pamela Greenbaum Pulls Out of School Board Race

The Jewish Star reports:
Lawrence school board President Asher Mansdorf and Trustee Pamela Greenbaum both have decided to not run for re-election.

Dr. Mansdorf said it had been "interesting," running the District 15 board since voters elected a majority of Orthodox, private school parents and had given him the opportunity to meet "some truly incredible people who I never would have had a
chance to meet."

Mansdorf plans to spend more time now running his Central Avenue dental practice. He was blunt and to the point about his decision: "I'm not running."
Greenbaum, one of two board members representing the public school minority, said, "It's really, really a hard decision to make," and seemed to leave the door slightly open to the possibility of changing her mind. "As of this moment in time the decision is no," she said.

Reached by phone one recent morning, Mansdorf revealed that he'd received six phone calls already that day urging him to reconsider.

Both trustees have endured a great deal of criticism, sometimes from each other. It often got personal. A number of months ago Mansdorf even received a threat against his and family's lives.

Most recently, Greenbaum was criticized. even by some of her own supporters, after she filed a discovery motion against Google for the purpose of unmasking the popular local blogger known as Orthomom. As an elected official, Greenbaum is likely to find it nearly impossible to convince a court that she was defamed by anonymous postings and comments on the blog which were critical, sometimes strongly so, of her policy positions.

Nonetheless, Greenbaum said her decision to not run for re-election would have no bearing on the case, which she insisted was a personal matter, not related to her
duties as a board member.

"It has nothing to do with the board or me being a candidate or a board member. It's a totally separate part of my life," she said. "Orthomom has attacked me on my board policies and board issues for years and I have never said anything. When you personally attack somebody and it affects different areas of their life, I feel that - I felt compelled to do something, to stick up for myself. It has to do with my rights."
Riiiight. Her rights. Her "rights" to what? Her "rights" not be called out and criticized on her publicly stated positions as an elected official? Oh, yeah. An elected official doesn't actually have a right to hide from criticism of their positions, a little fact that Ms. Greenbaum apparently was not informed of by her brilliant advisers on this matter. Her rights? Maybe she's mixing up what she erroneously considers to be an infringement on her rights with what is actually an infringement on my First Amendment rights. Because let's be very clear here. It is actually my rights which have been interfered with of late - and by Ms. Greenbaum herself, no less.

And this line is particularly amusing: "Orthomom has attacked me on my board policies and board issues for years and I have never said anything. When you personally attack somebody and it affects different areas of their life, I feel that - I felt compelled to do something, to stick up for myself." Ms. Greenbaum still seems to be ignoring the very real and salient fact that I have never done anything more that attack her board policies. I don't know who she means when she uses the word "you", but it sure as heck isn't me who attacked her personally. I wish she would just have accepted that basic and very relevant fact and saved herself time (and presumably money) on this absurd claim she is chasing.

My opinion on her choice not to run? I truly think that despite her protestations, she made her decision to drop out because she lost the support of her constituency when she filed the frivolous proceeding in a misguided attempt to silence me and my commenters. I have received comments on this blog making it clear that many in the public school community do not support her suit, and feel that it served only as an unwelcome distraction from real, far more pressing issues that affect the children of this community. Pity.

116 Comments:

Anonymous psdad said...

It seems clear to me that filing this lawsuit was the death knell of Pam's career. You are right that the public school side did not support the suit. We view it as a big mistake on many levels. Not only does it seem groundless, it makes Pam look like a weak candidate who can't stand the heat of having unpopular positions. Which she can't, obviously.

9:20 AM  
Anonymous justme said...

Just as you state about your First Amendment rights, it was her right to sue. Whether it was the correct thing in everyones eyes it was her right! You can slander people and they can sue. What's fair is fair. Deal with it. If all you say was true, why hide? Why not be proud of what you say? It would hold more weight if you didn't hide. It seems as though you hide because you are a coward and are speaking more through anger and hatred than through facts and courage. Something to think about...hmmm

9:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"t was her right to sue. Whether it was the correct thing in everyones eyes it was her right!"

Actually, that's not really true. As a lawyer myself, I think that filing a claim such as Greenbaum's is NOT a right. There is no endgame here, as the libel suit is completely meritless. Filing this motion for discovery as the only plan here is not a right. That is why many cases such as this one have recouped court costs and lawyer fees for the defendant.

"You can slander people and they can sue."

I think everyone here can agree that orthomom has never slandered Pam.

9:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

justme: there was no slander here. by anyone. Om, or her commentators. so i think that om is right that pam never had any of her rights interfered with.

9:41 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

justme said...

Just as you state about your First Amendment rights, it was her right to sue. Whether it was the correct thing in everyones eyes it was her right! You can slander people and they can sue. What's fair is fair. Deal with it.


Actually, I disagree. I do not think that citizens have a "right" to file frivolous claims designed to silence critics.

If all you say was true, why hide? Why not be proud of what you say? It would hold more weight if you didn't hide. It seems as though you hide because you are a coward and are speaking more through anger and hatred than through facts and courage. Something to think about...hmmm



Well, for starters, the First Amendment protects my right to anonymously criticize a public official. So you might not like it, and might think it makes my opinion "hold less weight". You are entitled to that opinion. It doesn't change the fact that it is my right. Oh, and "justme", your opinion holds so much more weight than mine, being as you're not anonymous. Just for the record, is "justme" your first name, or your last?

Also. I don't think you can back up your claim that my positions on this subject show "anger and hatred". But good luck with that.

9:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greenbaum shows her foolishness right to the very end.

"Orthomom has attacked me on my board policies and board issues for years and I have never said anything."

Hey, hold a public office, you better be ready for some public criticism on your policies and on your views of the issues. Other public figures that try to quiet criticism of their policies include Putin.

"When you personally attack somebody and it affects different areas of their life, I feel that - I felt compelled to do something, to stick up for myself. It has to do with my rights."

Wait a minute, is the problem that your policies are criticized, or is it personal attacks? Can you clarify please Greenbaum, or are you so caught up in your inane lawsuit?

10:18 AM  
Anonymous Barbara said...

I always love when people like Greenbaum, who stick their foot deep into immature doo-doo - ALL BY THEMSELVES - suddenly play the moral, upright VICTIM.

And if she's so sensitive, maybe she shouldn't be running. Anyone in a public position has to learn to role with it a little. Criticism isn't for the weak and it's as American as... well you know.

You go Orthomom. Greenbaum will find someone else to blame for her troubles over time.

Shalom

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done, OM. Great response here. Greenbaum has only herself to blame for this debacle.

10:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First the story of the Google lawsuit made national headlines and was covered in blogs across the country. I can imagine how much more embarrassing this will be when the blogs and press publish that one little blog got a board member to go running into the night. I'd be humiliated.

11:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just as you state about your First Amendment rights, it was her right to sue.

Her right to sue isn't the "rights" she is talking about in the article. She is referring to some imagined right to go through life without having her obviously very delicate psyche to be untouched by troubling or unpleasant words. However, given that such a right does exist under our US Constitution, Pam, here are a couple of options: (1) move to Wyoming, where you won't have to have anyone talk to you, (2) advocate for a new consitutional amendment requiring everyone to be nice to you, or (3) try controlled substances that may make you feel like every is being nice to you.

11:20 AM  
Blogger Jack's Shack said...

Many people are under the misguided impression that their "right" to live life should trump everyone else.

It is a small world and we all have to interact with each other. Sometimes that means that our toes are stepped on.

11:25 AM  
Blogger Chaim said...

There is no way that this lawsuit didn't influence her decision. I wonder if the board asked her to drop the suit or leave and she would have rathered pursue the suit.

Either way, it's pretty sad that it came to this. She should have never made a stink about it. There will always be people who don't disagree with you or call you names, be an adult and ignore it.

1:28 PM  
Blogger FemaleJewishBlogger said...

I truly don't understand how she could have thought that critisism is the same as slander... does she have a dictionary???

2:47 PM  
Blogger FemaleJewishBlogger said...

oops posted too soon...

...so is she trying to say that it is illegal to disagree with her? Who does she think she is, the president? ;)

2:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Imagine if Hilary, Rudy, George, Bill C, etc etc let negative comments affect their lifes. We'd have no one holding public office.

I wish Pam well and hope she enjoys retirement and her evenings with her family.

4:50 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

I think the OM should see this BBC report on suggested rules of conduct of blogging and reactions from women who blog and feel threatened.

6:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh please! She does have the right to sue. Anyone can sue for any reason. Whether it holds merit is another. If not, then she has the responcibility to pay the legal fees. Isn't America great?! I hope she does win. I would love to know who OM is. Someone with a little too much time on her hands. Someone who loves to put gas to a fire. A trouble maker!

9:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"She does have the right to sue. Anyone can sue for any reason. Whether it holds merit is another. If not, then she has the responcibility to pay the legal fees. Isn't America great?!"

America is great because of the freedom of religion and free speech. The freedom to be a litigious idiot and to waste the court's time and money (our tax dollars!)is one of the freedoms that just doesn't excite me as much.

"I would love to know who OM is. Someone with a little too much time on her hands. "

I don't get that impression at all. It can't take very much time to put up one or two articles a few times a week. No longer than it takes you to write your stupid comment.

9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM does like fanning the fire.

IMO OM is either David Sussman or Asher Mansdorf. I have been to meetings OM claims to have attended. However, there were no Orthodox in the audience.

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well i guess you orthodox scum will be dancing in the streets now
what a holiday gift now you can take over the entire board and step on the necks of everyone who is not of your religon you learned well from the nazi's so when is the book burning party?

12:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sounds like Andrew Levey has entered the room

1:22 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

Whoa.
I've never understood how ANYONE can feel at ease comparing Jews (of any stripe) to Nazis.

Your entire message was lost in your rhetoric of hate.

1:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Justme - Rule 11 look it up.

6:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

look - you can get caught up in my right , her right stuff as much as u want. the originating issue here is that when someone says something "critical" about you or what you do, you want to be able to face them and talk/argue resolve it out. the anonymous OM though fun to read, has taken that part of the equation away from human interaction part SO - what is left to do when you can't see the name/face of your "accuser"?

6:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As stated before OM is a trouble maker! Too much time on her hands!

6:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

look - you can get caught up in my right , her right stuff as much as u want. the originating issue here is that when someone says something "critical" about you or what you do, you want to be able to face them and talk/argue resolve it out.

Yeah, those pesky "rights." They're just there for "trouble makers" like OM anyway. And non-Christians. And Democrats. Who needs 'em?

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Huh??

7:44 PM  
Anonymous laughing lurker said...

I'm not sure which set of comments are funnier -- the ones today about the "troublemaking," "faceless" Orthomom, or the ones in the immediate aftermath of the lawsuit which warned Orthomom of the long, tortuous, pyrrhic legal battle that awaited her.

It must almost physically hurt to be that stupid.

11:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom's still trying to get INTO a legal battle to stall disclosure of her identity to avoid being sued. She's not sucessfully intervened, so she's not even in the fight. Perhaps one reason why is her overpaid legal team says dumb things like "Rule 11 - look it up" when Rule 11 doesn't apply in the Court where the litigation is actually taking place. If you want to know how stupid feels, ask the boys at Public Citizen.

1:29 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Orthomom's still trying to get INTO a legal battle to stall disclosure of her identity to avoid being sued. She's not sucessfully intervened, so she's not even in the fight. Perhaps one reason why is her overpaid legal team says dumb things like "Rule 11 - look it up" when Rule 11 doesn't apply in the Court where the litigation is actually taking place. If you want to know how stupid feels, ask the boys at Public Citizen.


Hmmm. Where do I begin. I know that stupid must feel like the guy who claims that I have "not successfully intervened" when the court has already ruled I can appear. Also? The comment about my "overpaid legal team" saying "dumb things like rule 11"? Where in the world did you get the idea that the anonymous commenter above who mentioned rule 11 was a member of my legal team?

1:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

However, there were no Orthodox in the audience.


How could you tell? Do orthodox women wear patches or other insignia??

7:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM, if the headline of the paper said, "Mansdorf, Greenbaum not running in District 15", why did you omit Dr. Mansdorf's name from the heading of your blog entry and only include Mrs. Greenbaum's?

8:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She didn't because she is an idiot! She picks and chooses what parts to put in, to make trouble! That's why no one know who she is, she is afraid! She's a coward! It will all come out sooner or later!

8:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As another OM I must say this is out of control. I have stayed out of this all hoping OM would prove everyone wrong. She has only confirmed what people are saying. This all seems to be a plot to make people very angry and draw the line deeper between us. Why is this such a big deal to know who you are if you have no ill intentions? Why are going to such extremes? You did mark this woman Pam Greenbaum as an anti-semite. As an Orthodox woman I too would find that to be a great discrimination! What do you expect to come of all you have created! You should be ashamed! Onesh Olam

9:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

As another OM I must say this is out of control. I have stayed out of this all hoping OM would prove everyone wrong. She has only confirmed what people are saying. This all seems to be a plot to make people very angry and draw the line deeper between us."

LOL. Orthomom's plot. That's cute. Orthomom is perfectly entitled to criticize someones political views, and did. Greenbaum is the one who created this plot to make people very angry and draw the line deeper.

"You did mark this woman Pam Greenbaum as an anti-semite. As an Orthodox woman I too would find that to be a great discrimination! What do you expect to come of all you have created! You should be ashamed! Onesh Olam"

First of all, Om didn't mark anyone as an anti-Semite. There was an article in one of the local papers where the reporter checked through all of the comments to the blog, and the only comment calling anyone an anti-Semite was about the Orthodox board members. Sure you're Orthodox. "Onesh Olam"? Like I said, I don't think you're Ortho. Never heard anyone Ortho use that phrase.

9:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

OM, if the headline of the paper said, "Mansdorf, Greenbaum not running in District 15", why did you omit Dr. Mansdorf's name from the heading of your blog entry and only include Mrs. Greenbaum's?

Anonymous said...

She didn't because she is an idiot! She picks and chooses what parts to put in, to make trouble! That's why no one know who she is, she is afraid! She's a coward! It will all come out sooner or later! "

Oh no, why did OM choose not to blog about every story in the news, every day! Because she dares to pick and choose what to blog about! Because this is her blog! And not a newspaper! And you call her an idiot. There's a mirror there.

And if Om really wanted to stir the pot, she could have pointed out that Mansdorf decided not to run in the aftermath of a death threat that threatened harm to his family if he advocates the closing of any public schools. Yet she didn't, and that's what you take to show that she is making trouble. You're really so stupid it hurts.

9:33 AM  
Anonymous detective said...

OM, anonymous from 9:16 am sounds remarkably like our old friend "Moshe Rabinowitz", doesn't she? Claiming to be Orthodox? The hebrew phrases that just don't get it right?

9:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
How could you tell? Do orthodox women wear patches or other insignia??"

Snort. Yes. In the five towns, Orthodox women need to wear a big scarlet O before they are allowed into board meetings.

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Orthomom's still trying to get INTO a legal battle to stall disclosure of her identity to avoid being sued. She's not sucessfully intervened, so she's not even in the fight. Perhaps one reason why is her overpaid legal team says dumb things like "Rule 11 - look it up" when Rule 11 doesn't apply in the Court where the litigation is actually taking place. If you want to know how stupid feels, ask the boys at Public Citizen.


Adam, is that you again?

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's an "Onesh Olam"? I guess I know what it means, but I've never actually heard anyone use phrase before. Is it similar to "tikun olam"?

It actually does sound alot like Swergold's material. Maybe Nat could team up with Adam. Now that would be a dream team.

11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once again, no one should dare demand that OM disclose her identity in the name of having a fair argument - let Mrs. Greenbaum post her opposing thoughts in a coherent matter on her own blog and we could have this "debate" without any identities being revealed/death threats being issued.

The real problem is that Mrs. Greenbaum doesn't have any thoughts to lay out in a coherent matter - it seems her former supporters have finally figured that out.

12:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm curious who preps here with that paper that she reads off at the meetings?

2:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quit lying OM: "the court has already ruled I can appear" is just plain false. Your motion to intervene has not been decided. When there's a decision, I'm sure your or The Canonist will post a link.

1:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quit lying OM: "the court has already ruled I can appear" is just plain false.

Adam...er Anon, not only did the court rule she can appear, it ordered Google to serve her with the stipulation without her lawyer even showing up. Read the stipulation and the endoresement and signature by the judge. While the judge did not use the magic word "intervention," the judge has for all practical purposes allowed her to intervene. Anyone on Pam's side who thinks this case is going to be decided on any other than the merits of her poor excuse for a legal filing is foolong themselves.

9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get real - the court protected her interests by suggesting that she should make the motion to intervene, but it didnt grant her motion. If you are going to quibble, at least be accurate about it. And you don't have to be one one side or the other to think the upcoming libel suit has merits, you just have to have read some New York State law.

9:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As of Friday evening, Pam Greenbaum is RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION. She announced it at a Friday evening fundraiser in Long Beach.

Does anyone know who else is running in the community besides her and Andrew Levey???

4:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOSER

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While election season is obviously the best time to criticize the actions of the board, anyone who attends meetings knows that the board has been gunning for academic improvement since day one. And of course, they were rebuffed at every opportunity by Pam, Stanley, Fitz, LTA and PTA. Pam and Stanley of course can't agree with anything constructive from this board because it's the "private school board". Fitzsimons and the LTA will not agree with any idea that may make them look bad. The PTA might as well just go out of business because they never know the right thing to say or do, they haven't advocated for the kids for as long as anyone can remember, and they typically just find themselves advocating for the LTA, since they don't have the balls to take a stand for what's right.

8:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM--your comment section is out of control!!! I know you are busy getting ready for yom tov, but maybe you should close it down, because its really nuts out there.

Chag Kasher VeSameach to you and yours....

9:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8:28, your ignorance is appalling, though not surprising based on the stuff I see on this blog

11:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How so?

11:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8:28 is right on target. The PTA lost sight of its objectives long ago, and the LTA coalition (of board members and administrators) cares nothing about academic improvement unless it means hiring more teachers with the same standards of accountability (or lack thereof). It certainly is a sad state of affairs, and it's time the PTA got some strong leadership to restore their relevancy.

12:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PTA is a joke...
Until now they would not get involved with anything political related b/c they had to be 'politically correct'.

Now, they are just a wild bunch of out of control lunatics.

6:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Attention Orthomom,this is your blog and you are free to post as you wish. You are however no better than Pamela Greenbaum now that you have begun to remove comments from the blog . Its either an anonymous public forum or its not.Good Yom Tov

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom has attacked Pamela Greenbaum on her board regarding policies and board issues for years but the minute Orthomom is attacked on her own board she removes the comment and its a whole different story. When you personally attack others and it affects different areas of their life, I feel that you must be able to take the heat of comments on your own board

8:23 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Attention Orthomom,this is your blog and you are free to post as you wish. You are however no better than Pamela Greenbaum now that you have begun to remove comments from the blog . Its either an anonymous public forum or its not.Good Yom Tov


That is absurd. I have never claimed that this blog is an "anonymous public forum" with no limits whatsoever.
I have always reserved the right to moderate comments though only used that right on rare occasions when a commenter(s) has clearly crossed a line (such as this one, when clearly someone with a vendetta against a local Rav - and a nasty mouth).

Anonymous said...

Orthomom has attacked Pamela Greenbaum on her board regarding policies and board issues for years but the minute Orthomom is attacked on her own board she removes the comment and its a whole different story. When you personally attack others and it affects different areas of their life, I feel that you must be able to take the heat of comments on your own board


I think that's quite hilarious. I have never - and I mean NEVER - removed a comment because I was personally attacked. Actually, if you are someone who enjoys seeing me get attacked (seems like you would be), go take a look at my blog comments over the past few years. Some of the personal attacks directed at me get quite nasty.

Any deleted comments fall within the guidelines I have posted a few times before. Nasty ad hominem attacks or unsubstantiated malicious rumors should be posted at peril of being removed.

8:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know a secret! Shhhhhh...OM is Mansdorf's wife...shhhhhhh.

9:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Onesh Olam

9:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know a secret! Shhhhhh...OM is Mansdorf's wife...shhhhhhh.

PROVE IT.

9:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the rumors regarding GG are "unsubstantiated" as you say,why not do the research yourself. I think you owe it to your readers to look into the issue further and report on them.

10:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not surprising that the same people who would criticize all of the rabbis in the community for their unified position in this matter, would attempt to besmirch one of those rabbis with allegations that clearly cannot be corroborated.

Whether you like them or him or not, there's absolutely no justification for circulating information like this unless you have solid proof. Obviously you do not and this is all hearsay. If you do have some hard documentation to prove any of this, there are lots of ways for you to share it.

10:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares about Gourmet Glatt?

Pam's back in the race - let the games begin!

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course. the PTA allies itself with the LTA because they care about their children's teachers more than they care for their own children and the LTA likes being killed in the papers over low test scores, which is why they don't care about academic achievement. get real.

4:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not all public school parents and/or those in the PTA support the LTA. Stephen Clements (thank goodness he is no longer there) really put a bad taste in our mouths over the last few years - i.e.: picketing Mansdorf's practice and home??? Picketing as children are getting off of school buses? The LPS Alliance teamed up with them a few years ago and the was the WORST THING that ever happened.

LTA agenda is to protect their members. Period.

It is a shame that a union has become counter-productive like they did, but it happens all over, not just in Lawrence.

Believe me, many public school parents aren't happy with the LTA and the PTA. And many do support the Orthodox on the board, but certain issues are not supported - no matter what they wear on their heads or what school their kids may go to/have gone to.

We need to drop the racism and jew vs. jew. Pam and Stan need to leave it in the basement and come together.

This pre-K busing just burns a hole in the pocket for all of us. You KNOW they aren't going to come up with a 0 percent budget, so if the budget is voted down (again), the pre-K busing issue goes right out the window.

A lot of houses are starting foreclosure in the area (read the back of the Herald each week) with sub-prime loans. We have more to worry about than to fight about the school district. We have to protect our properties and preserve our community.

8:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look at the LTA contract, what the teachers are paid and then the forclosures and tell me about it. Look at our scores, the way we dismiss the [poor performance of our at risk students and tell me about it. Look at the budget that was meant to support a reserve and keep our taxes artifiially high and tell me about it. Then look at an administration that did not even enforce the teachers contract and cost us all over 400,000 in productivity, on one provision by itself. PAm, Stan and the PTA support and supported our administration, extended raises and extensions and now Ms. Greenbaum and company want three more years and control of the Bd.

5:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, let's take one thing at a time:

You said:
"Look at the LTA contract, what the teachers are paid and then the forclosures and tell me about it."

The LTA contract is high, but other teachers on the island are well paid too. I don't like the fact, however, that they are trying to keep staff when enrollment is dwindling. They should be a partner in this whole mess, and they aren't when it comes to financial concerns. As far as the foreclosures are concerned, that's because of the sub-prime industry that so many people used when they bought houses here in the last few years -especially the McMansions.

You said:
"Look at our scores, the way we dismiss the [poor performance of our at risk students and tell me about it."

We have a large amount of special education children we decided to keep in-house rather than to pay BOCES or other special ed. schools. Those students do water down the results. The other factor is that we have a "brain drain", as many children who have historically done well in our schools are going to private schools now. The final factor is that we have a large influx of students who speak english as a second language and they are not catching up as easily. Back in the day when I went to Lawrence, we had one ESL student in our class. Now, over 1/2 of the class is ESL.

"Look at the budget that was meant to support a reserve and keep our taxes artifiially high and tell me about it."

There is little reserve right now. The board wants to create a capital fund reserve from the sale of Number 1 and it is meeting with opposition. Either way, any monies from the sale will have to go for repairs. The small amount of reserve is set aside for legal fees (defending suits) and to off-set increases in pension payments.

"Then look at an administration that did not even enforce the teachers contract and cost us all over 400,000 in productivity, on one provision by itself."

That I don't know about, so I would ask you to enlighten me on that.

"Pam, Stan and the PTA support and supported our administration, extended raises and extensions and now Ms. Greenbaum and company want three more years and control of the Bd."

Pam and Stan do not control the board. That is obvious. The PTA has been wrong before - and they are partly responsible for the division in the community because they do not back the WHOLE community - only public school interests. I would like to see change with this too. Perhaps they can invite private school people on their Central Council PTA - we can learn more from each other than fighting against each other. However, the private schools should open their doors to the public school community too - how about intramural games? Or exhibitions? I've not seen the doors open the other way either.

So you see, there aren't easy solutions - and the doors do have to be opened both ways.

8:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was one of the dumbest postings I ever read. "1/2 the students are ESL" Nice try with the lies. But if you look at the NYS report card for Lawrence at http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/repcrd2005/cir/280215030000.pdf

Please tell me how 20.5% limited English proficiency is "1/2 the students"

I know you graduated from Lawrence, but where I went to school, 1/2 the students is 50%, not 20%. I won't even bother with the rest of your idiotic comments.

1:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoa - just because 20 percent is limited english proficiency does not mean that 1/2 the classes are ESL. There are ESL students with excellent english proficiency skills.

Don't start calling names. My grandchild is in school with them now.

7:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My grandchild is in school with them now.

Nice use of the word them . I can see how racism finds its way into young children with sentiments like that.

10:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't like the fact, however, that they are trying to keep staff when enrollment is dwindling

Unfortunately, lack of communication in this district is our biggest problem. This year, and next year the projected decline of students in the public school is 1/2%, Dr. Fitz announced this and the state has it posted on thier website. Other interesting stats. We do not spend 26,000, per public pupil. In a conversation with the state offices they helped explain how it is figured out, and they said it comes to when all is said and done 18,697.00. For you doubters, look at the website and what we charge non resident typical children. You will see that number as well. Also, look at the accountability. We spend 20,000 (educational only) on special education per child, every other school in Nassau county spend 26,000-36,000. Perhaps we need to review our policies and invest our money in our children. Just a thought.

9:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seems like this funny math will never come to an end.

There will always be several different ways to calculate per pupil expenditures (PPE). By some accounts, it's $26k, some will tell you it's $18k, and there are those who will arrive at a figure closer to $13k.

However, once thing is constant regardless of how you calculate the district's PPE. It will always be significantly higher that the PPE for most other districts.

Yes, so if you feel better using the $18k number, you'll find that the comparable calculation for most other districts is well below $18k. The statewide average is now around $13k using those parameters.

Isn't it time to discuss the issues based on the facts? Why can't people try to make an argument without the sleight of hand and the funny math?

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the PPE expenditure is minus transportation.

As for the "them" comment - I don't see it as racist. It is clearly meaning that those are ESL students. I am not an ESL father. I have no problems with other races, cultures, either. I think some of you are reading too much into it and trying to wage a war.

2:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For about three years,when Frank Parise and Cathy Raquet Barry were President of the Board ,the administration did not enforce the provision in the teachers contract that said ,"every high school tacher had to give one extra period a week for mentorin( I am paraphrasing", If you add that up ,figuring 85 dollars an hour in teaching time(that is what they get for extra work) it comes to hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think that is the money that was completely wasted and the previous blogger was referring to. Of interest, Pam and Stanley knew of this and joined Mr. Parise and Ms. Barry in extending Dr. Fitzsimmons contract,

10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fizsimmons need to resign. He has not gotten the job done. He has failed miserably at his job and has does the bare minimum in trying to bring this community together...which is nothing!

7:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if Fitzsimons has done a horrible job, then why did Greenbaum, Kopilow, Harris and Licatesi extend his contract? Did they want to commend him for doing such a bad job, and allow this district to continue to fall into the toilet?

None of those 4 deserve to be on the board. It's not a matter of private or public. They're just bad news for us all

2:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regardless of how bad a job Fitzsimons has been doing, it certainly didn't make any sense to extend his contract by an additional year long before the current contract even ran out.

11:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I took the liberty to look up per pupil spending on the south shore. I did not look in the state because we live on Long Island
Long Beach- 19,860.00
Lynbrook- 15,600(no busing at all)
Malverne-17,800
RVC-18,000
Roosevelt-18,650
West Hemp- 18,650
Hewlett- 21,000
Jericho-21,00
Roslyn 21,664

If you go by what we charge non resident public typical students you will find it comes to 18,640.

13,640.00 is an accurate number. This number is for actual education costs. Teachers,Books(including non public). What we need it accurate information. Real figures. What it costs to educate a public school child. Not including anything other than the public schools. Perhaps if the truth comes out, we can accomplish something. Blaming a certain group such as the Super,Pam, or anyone else for failure, is a poor idea. No group should ever be blamed for failure. It is a lesson, I surely do not want to teach my children. Perhaps actually discussing the education plan, Dr. Fitz put forward, which included all children, instead of the 5 select private schools this board chose, or free building usage, we can accomplish something. Special interest groups have not business in school board politics. One of the duties of the board as per the State Board Assco is Advocate for the public schools. Unfortunately it does not say make the private school system stronger. Sorry Dr. M.

1:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:11 PM: I agree with your statement about "special interest groups." Add the LTA to that. They are protecting their contract. Period.

5:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you people make me laugh with all of your b.s. talk about bringing the community together. thats the last thing that can ever happen. as i have said before you are the most divisive people on the planet. you cannot even get along with each other nevermind non orthodox people. tell me why you cannot have a central pre k program that would make the busing issue less costly which in turn would make it easier for the district to enable. why ? because you cannot bring your different brands(or sects whatever you call them)of religon together in one building without having a problem. and you to bring the community together? ohhh thats right the rest of the community is supposed to change for you silly me!!! just thought you might like hearing from me again i know i make you chuckle just call me
ANTI ORTHO

8:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:38 PM: Your remarks are just plain stupid. There are Jews and non-Jews blogging here. There are the different sects of Jews blogging here. There are Muslim blogging here.

Statements like yours are usually ignored because of the ignorance of those behind the posts.

If you have noticed, the community in which we live in here in the Five Towns have changed. No more "whitey white" like years ago.
You should look all around you and THINK before you speak.

We all have choices were we want to live. If you don't like your choice, then move.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon 10:14 you still have not answered the question:

why you cannot have a central pre k program that would make the busing issue less costly which in turn would make it easier for the district to enable. why ?

7:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:17 AM: I don't have children in pre-k (anymore) and I cannot speak for anyone else, but different schools have different programs. It would be like Woodmere Academy having a pre-k and St. Joachim's having a pre-k. How would you make the two merge for the benefit of busing?

Personally, I don't think there should be busing for pre-k at all, since, out of 100 children who attend the pre-k at #4, 1/2 are lower socioeconomic children who are paid through a grant (and so is their transportation), and the other half are paying parents. For 50 children to be included in a $2 million busing issue, it doesn't pay. Matrons will have to be hired and extra bus drivers, since the routes would coincide with morning and afternoon routes that are already established.

Don't talk to everyone in this blog like they are all Orthodox Jews. Talk to all of us like we are part of the human race. Drop the racist attitude.

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon10:41
ANTI ORTHO here:
i am not talking to everyone. i know there are non orthodox blogging here also, but my comments are for the orthodox. i am far from being a racist it is the orthodox who are racist against anyone who is not orthodox. i have never lived in a whitey white neighborhood in my life.whenever someone says anything that they don't agree with you are anti-semitic.

8:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANTI ORTHO:

And everyone that is Jewish is not necessarily Orthodox.

Glad you cleared that up.

You do realize that there are Orthodox families who do send their children to public school, don't you?

So be careful - not every Orthodox person is anti-public school either.

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought everyone should read this. It reminds this community what the is expected of every board member. Please note the last bullet.




The National School Boards Association endorses the following code for local school board members.

As a member of my local Board of Education I will strive to improve public education, and to that end I will:

· Attend all regularly scheduled board meetings insofar as possible, and become informed concerning the issues to be considered at those meetings;
· Recognize that I should endeavor to make policy decisions only after full discussion at publicly held board meetings;
· Render all decisions based on the available facts and my independent judgment, and refuse to surrender that judgment to individuals or special interest groups;
· Encourage the free expression of opinion by all board members, and seek systematic communications between the board and students, staff, and all elements of the community;
· Work with other board members to establish effective board policies and to delegate authority for the administration of the schools to the superintendent;
· Communicate to other board members and the superintendent expression of public reaction to board policies and school programs;
· Inform myself about current educational issues by individual study and through participation in programs providing needed information, such as those sponsored by my state and national school boards association;
· Support the employment of those persons best qualified to serve as school staff, and insist on a regular and impartial evaluation of all staff;
· Avoid being placed in a position of conflict of interest;
· Take no private action that will compromise the board or administration, and respect the confidentiality of information that is privileged under applicable law; and
· Remember always that my first and greatest concern must be the educational welfare of the students attending the public schools

7:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The National School Boards Association endorses the following code for local school board members.


While these are admirable goals, the last goal does not take into account the unique nature of thsi community. Most school districts arpund the country have near 95% participation. We have 50% at best, so that last bullet for Lawrence should read "Remember always that my first and greatest concern must be the educational welfare of the CHILDREN WHO RESIDE IN THE DISTRICT.

I am one of those ortho's who use the public schools. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

10:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While these are admirable goals, the last goal does not take into account the unique nature of thsi community

They dont take it into account, because they can't. This community has forgotten that the public school systems do not and cannot take into account where you send your children to school. Blaine, covers this. Most states do not have Board of Ed vs Allen. Why is it that the ethics that all school districts in the nation should follow those ethics? You think other communities don't have different make ups? Shame on this board for spending 2 millon on 3 year old busing while screwing the children of this district.

10:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While these are admirable goals, the last goal does not take into account the unique nature of thsi community

The above is not correct. The ethics code is not a series of goals. The board is not supposed to achieve, they are supposed to follow. They don't recognize this community, because legally they can't. They must be anti-semetic.

10:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So be careful - not every Orthodox person is anti-public school either.


Perfectly said. Just because I wear a Kippah and attend BOE meetings I should get stares and hisses. I spould be accused of bigitort because "look they all sit together". I sit where my a** will fit in a seat, if it is near another Ortho, or a non jewish person. I am a proud Public School Parent (non special ed class). You all suck. You are all (jewish, nonjewish, ortho and not) killing it for my kids.

11:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANTI ORTHO HERE:
You move into a community where taxes are for public schools and try to change it for your benefit because you decide to send your children to private schools and expect people to accept this. how arrogant! my parents sent me to private school and got nothing from the public schools they paid for my private school because this was the choice they made they did not cry about it. you have every right to send your children to private schools but that is your choice no one is forcing you to do this. you knew this before you moved here.LIVE WITH IT!!

12:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

should get stares and hisses. I spould be accused of bigitort because "look they all sit together".

What you describe is not acceptable. I agree with you the behavior you describe is not called for. Unfortunately, there are members of both communities who spew hate. The board which should be bringing the community closer together is tearing it apart. The board should follow the ethics the above blogger posted. Public school parents do not want to take away from the required services that nonpublic children are entitled to. On the contrary, we are okay with busing on holidays and days we have off. We agree with services being given at the childs school. The above services are provided while every district in Nassau County does not. At the same time you have to understand are dismay to a community that wants to receive a $100.00 refund from money that should be put back into our schools. Each builidng needs work. Our buildings like many on Long Island need updating and repair. Our fields and outdoor equipment is just plain embarassing. Perks that are requested, as far as equal treatment under New York and Federal Law is not required and in some cases not legal. Threats to enroll children in public school are welcome. How funny it would be to have all these children enroll, and not have a place to put them. Interesting challenge don't you think. The board needs to start advocating for the very children they are supposed to be representing. Hatred should not be tolerated. Anyone who shouts negativity at these meetings should just be kicked out.

3:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone who shouts negativity at these meetings should just be kicked out.


At least 1 Board Candidate is the prime culpert. Cant shut up. He has good points, but is lost in the attitude.

4:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANTI ORTHO HERE:
You move into a community where taxes are for public schools and try to change it for your benefit because you decide to send your children to private schools and expect people to accept this. how arrogant! my parents sent me to private school and got nothing from the public schools they paid for my private school because this was the choice they made they did not cry about it. you have every right to send your children to private schools but that is your choice no one is forcing you to do this. you knew this before you moved here.LIVE WITH IT!!



I have lived for almost 30 years. I have kids in both Public and Yeshiva. I love both. Anti Ortho, you are really a bad person, stinking up this neighborhood with your venomous words. Enough. End the madness. This is our children we are talking about.

6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANTIORTHO is probably Orthomom herself or Sussman... looking to stir the pot.

6:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could it be Greenbaum? Hmmm Sussman or Greenbaum, if those are the only two choices which one does it sound more like?

6:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I seriously doubt it is either Sussman or Greenbaum, neither having the time to write such hate. Either way why answer someone whose sole purpose is to stir the pot. Ignore them.

7:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANTI ORTHO says:
anon 6:17
again you put the blame every where except where it belongs. we are talking about the children.THE PUBLIC SCHOOL CHILDREN they are the ones being hurt MY CHILDREN!bad enough you will not pass a budget you don't even want to allow the money from the sale of of #1 building to fix the buildings that are in dire need of repairs. but yet you want to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to build a new library. in this age of the internet with so much information available this should be a priority? you are right. Enough End the Madness

12:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When are the idiots on the school board going to stop their internal, personal squabbling and start working for the benefit of the children? After all THEY are the future of our country. It's time to kick them all out, and regardless of their religious affiliations or ethnic stripes, to encourage competent and well meaning individuals to run for those positions.

12:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANTI ORTHO SAYS:

ANON 12:32 WELL SAID!!!!

8:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All these attacks on these "uppity orthodox new comers" reminds me of growing in South in the 1950's. The whites blamed all the racial tension on the National Association of the Agitation of Colored People. Yes that is what they called the NAACP. Why can't those blacks just sit in the back of the bus and why should they be allowed to vote anyway. They do not need good schools. If they would just sit down and stop demanding a piece of the pie everything would be just dandy. The reform jews have treated us the same way for 75 years in this country. Why can't those orthodox just fade away, they have said in many forums in the US. In Cincinnati they tired to close down the mikve. In 1942 Stephen M. Wise the President of HUC (reform) told FDR not to speak to the 400 orthodox rabbis who came to plead the cause of bombing the tracks. FDR hid in the white house and never spoke to them. Thanks Mr. Wise. Other than in the most recent times, the reform have attacked the orthodox at every chance and usually they won. Unfortunately for bloggers history is only about 45 minutes old so they forget that and now blame community tension on those uppity jews or those blacks or those jews -- I am getting so confused. For 60 years the American Jewish Congress filed amicus curiae briefs to get the courts stop any crumb falling to those damn orthodox and while we are at the Catholics.
I work in this town for over ten years and I find all kinds of people are nice and all kinds not so nice. No-one has a monopoly on double parking or bad manners.
But what I do not get is why in the USA where we fought a war against taxation without representation that someone calls me uncaring because I vote for the candidate that appeals to my interest. I do the same in the national elections and in the local elections. Only in Lawrence is it now a scandal that I do not vote for the "Public School Candidate." Is it a scandal that I will not vote for Hilliary? I am truly sick and tired at being branded a hater of children because I do not vote your way. OK I do not like all the illegals in my country does this mean the illegals who stand at each LIRR station could or should call me names because I do not vote for them to be admitted? For 25 years I have not had a candidate for school board who cares one iota about me. Oh yea there I go again those uppity jews or blacks or jews. Gosh can you imagine that in Atlanta a black was voted in by the blacks as mayor, but the Jews better not vote in one of their kind that would be uncaring. Hey I am a tax payer, I do not live in a McMansion, but in America I have a vote just like you do. So do not tell me I am a no good orthodox jew because I do not vote some candidate you like and I do not. My white neighbors said they same thing until they just got use to "one man one vote." I went to three BOE town meetings and the name calling primarily from the public school crowd was sickening. I stopped going to the meeting but I and all my little black oh I mean jewish children vote in the elections. Are we not allowed to vote anymore? How dare you call me a bigot or a bum because I do not think like you. See you this May 15th.

11:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:15 PM,

I agree, going to board meetings is like a kkk meeeting for Jews. It is not only reform Jews, it is Jews in general. Modern,Shommer Shabos, etc, complaints against each group is rampant. While I agree with your thought process on the anti-orthodox, you need to be open minded on issues public school parents are hit with. Not one public school parent I know who are Jewish "hate" religous jews. We know it goes on. We resent the constant comments we get about supporting our LTA,or any thing else to do with the teachers. Perhaps you have heard "we support the troops not the war" It is not my fault this district had 106 teachers with under 7 years experience in 1997 and now you have 10. The old board with members we will not mention, (one was president, one is running) had to lay off young teachers. But, if I even discuss that are teachers pay more than anyother union for benefits, shoot me. Talk about racist, the cries of inequality in special education is a load of xxxx. I have many friends whose children are not given special education services. Take it a step further, they won't even test them. Yes, illegal, but they do a "screening" and when the numbers don't come up your xxxx out of luck. The children that get approved, if you are lucky to get that evaluation, truly qualify. Although, I heard of a case of a young girl whose ot/pt scores were in the 3% and was given services once a week. Our kids are sick and miss a service no make-up. So why is this a private school issue. One of my children is in a second grade inclusion class with 23 kids and isan absolute zoo. The teacher does not have any extra support except for a special ed teacher for half the day, but she is there for the "classified" children. Inclusion for some reason in this district also means, put your yeshiva kids who are behavioral problems that don't qualify in the public schools. So while half of the community is complaining about busing, I have the lovely task of having a daughter that start the year above grade level on many subjects, no get remedial help in reading, and writing. I know second grade more problems, but you know what, if these classes were smaller,,,.. Why can't the community see this. Why is okay to put 26 in a class in 3/4 grade? Only to be told that instead of hiring more teachers more specialists will be hired. Well that is great for a kid who needs it, but what about the kids that don't, where does that leave them? I understand your views, but you have to understand ours. Our class sizes have gone from 18-25/26, and our enrichment programs have been cut, those homework centers are for kids that don't read or write on level. A consultant was supposed to be hired, only to have the rumor of the board fought. So what else is new, you have a 5-2 majority, they could have passed it. I am not allowed to complain because I am not in the so called majority. I have not malice torwards you, but when the elected school board spends 3 meetings on busing and using increased funding from the state for pre-k busing, yes I have a problem. For those of us who read Spitzers speech. The extra monies is for smaller classes,programs, and technology. Computers not older than our kids. Spitzer in his education speech he would try for a tax cut for private school parents. The laws of New York and the Us are clear, Blane. If you are not happy with any of those decisions fight it. We encourage every private school person to file a complaint with the Federal and State agencies. Ask for a review of all branches of this school district. Complain to the ACLU let them know you rights are being violated. Yes you are allowed to vote but, I am allowed too as well. I also can say I pay 8,000 in school taxes and all I get is an overcrowded classroom, broken down equipment, outdated learning plans, and a community that wants to close the public schools. Equality in education is non exsistant, read the laws

10:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon10:35am "outdated learning plans"? What are the LTA members doing duriny their prep period?

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.savesd15.blogspot.com/

A site concerned with the children of our district, objective and understands the education laws of new york state

3:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

outdated learning plans"? What are the LTA members doing duriny their prep period?

I think their is a lack of understanding by the above. The teachers prep is fine, most including new york city have technology in their classrooms that enable a teacher to focus on small groups while other children are working on reading and writing skills on the computers. Some program my children use where I teach is School Biz 3000. All of nyc uses it. Each day children log in and have a reading assignment, they must answer the questions and then get to play a game based on the article. Email can be sent by myself and the principal to the children and their parents. I also am able to post homework, test scores, and other helpful info. I have 25 children in my class. 7 are at risk with out tools like this it is impossible to be able to give that extra to those at risk. There are two sides to this.

6:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

have 25 children in my class. 7 are at risk with out tools like this

The parents of public school children have asked for this type of software for years. The above teacher has 25 in her class and 7 at risk. Try a sd 15 class 26 children no software 7 at risk, don't be suprised when the scores come out.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

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