A Quick Word
So at tonight's SD 15 "meet the candidates" night, candidate Pamela Greenbaum called me a "cyberbully". Ha. The only bully here is Ms. Greenbaum, who is seeking to strip my First Amendment right to anonymous political speech in the face of my very valid criticisms of her stance on important district issues. She's a bully because when she couldn't stand the heat, she dragged me into court, with the clear intention of attempting to shut me up by stanching my criticism. Did it ever occur to Ms. Greenbaum that it might have been more appropriate and befitting a public figure to actually try to disprove a critic's claims, instead of just attempting to muzzle said critic? To recap this whole sad affair, I have never attacked Ms. Greenbaum on anything but the issues.
But somehow, I'm the bully.
But somehow, I'm the bully.
posted by orthomom at 9:52 PM
71 Comments:
but what of the candidates?
I wasn't there. I received several reports, and am collating the notes.
Also, Pam Greenbaum IS a candidate. I do think her actions in filing this suit go directly to the point of her (un)suitability as a candidate.
Grow up Orthomom. Something hideous was published on your watch, with your encouragement. You want to host a blog and bash people and allow that sort of garbage to remain while discarding other comments, you are going to get sued.
You keep telling Mrs. Greenbaum "if you can't stand the heat stay out of the fire" and its time you take your own advice. You WERE a cyber-bully. Now you've been sued, you know there are limits. Say what you want, but know there are consequences and accept them like a big girl.
Say what you want, but know there are consequences and accept them like a big girl.
Are you talking to me or to Pam? Because Pam said what she wanted about not supporting extra-curricular programs that would go toward private school students. When I questioned her motives, she tried to shut me up by going to court with a frivolous claim of libel when there was nothing of the sort. She didn't seem to take the consequences of her own words in a very grown-up manner - by actually defending them.
I defended my words, numerous times since the lawsuit. Where's Pamela's defense of my criticism?
Certainly not in her lawsuit.
OM - Ms. Greenbaum's projections and blame-shifting are merely her reactions at her own inadequacy and the fact that her legal machinations are blowing up in her face, in my point of view.
"Bullying is a compulsive need to displace aggression and is achieved by the expression of inadequacy (social, personal, interpersonal, behavioural, professional) by projection of that inadequacy onto others through control and subjugation (criticism, exclusion, isolation etc). Bullying is sustained by abdication of responsibility (denial, counter-accusation, pretence of victimhood) and perpetuated by a climate of fear, ignorance, indifference, silence, denial, disbelief, deception, evasion of accountability, tolerance and reward (eg promotion) for the bully."
Tim Field, 1999
Bullies, liars, the paranoid and the personality disordered do what she did all the time. I am not saying she has any of these problems - but she has made a colossal error in suing you and instead of owning her mistake - and she somehow is still going to make YOU responsible to cover her silliness.
I see it in my advocacy work and I have had it in my real life. Whenever you expose the realities and the vulnerabilities of people like this - suddenly YOU are the bully or the liar or the bad one. Yep - that's projection. One of the oldest tricks in the book.
OM - you know you did nothing wrong. Maybe you should sue HER for slander? LOL!!
Believe me, in my opinion (and I don't know Greenbaum) anyone of us who is sophisticated enough to see - Ms. Greenbaum just exposed herself. She needs to take her tactics back to the high school girl's locker room and worry about the image of herself she is projecting now to anyone with 1/2 a brain.
Hang in there OM. Hugs
I reject the premise that anyone's restricted, or even tried to restrict, your first amendment rights.
As you note, you've said a boatload on this one topic since this whole thing began. Thats just a mantra to distract from the very real fact that libelous speech is not protected speech. Its for a court to decide whether or not there was libelous speech in this case. Meanwhile, your right to share your opinions and observations has not been curtailed one iota, nor will it ever be. You might think twice before spreading the stuff that might qualify as slander, since it is not protectd speech and will subject you to suit, as you now understand.
You want to host a blog and bash people and allow that sort of garbage to remain while discarding other comments, you are going to get sued.
Actually, no. I delete comments that allege something that I feel to be false. When a commeter called Ms. Greenbaum a bigot, that was clear to all as opinion - which is something that could not be demonstrated to be a false claim.
I will, however, note that when someone made a pointless and hurtful attack on Ms. Greenbaum's appearance, I deleted that comment within minutes (an action that Greenbaum/Feder somehow excoriated me for in their court papers). A comment that questions Ms. Greenbaum's motivations in the face of her stated policies is NOT hideous, nor defamatory. It's opinion, and it's a part of lively political discussion. I'm sorry for Ms. Greenbaum that she felt incapable of taking part in the discussion by defending her policies.
Where's Pamela's defense of my criticism
When you can't defend, you take selective bits and pieces of the situation... the TEENY bits you can actually somehow defend... and get behind them.
And make sure you conveniently forget any salient points that may make your stand invalid or moot.
That's the sore loser or bully's way of arguing.
Dr. Barbara, getting called a bigot is hardly a TEENY bit of the situation. And there is a concept at law that some words are so eggregious - like accusations of bigotry - they don't have to be "disproven" as you and OM now want to insist. Sorry Mrs. Greenbaum won't be pushed around to your liking, but you're not in the high school gym anymore.
Anonymous said...
I reject the premise that anyone's restricted, or even tried to restrict, your first amendment rights.
Are you kidding? Trying to unmask an anonymous critic is NOT an attempt to curtail my free speech? In what world?
Meanwhile, your right to share your opinions and observations has not been curtailed one iota, nor will it ever be.
Of course it would be, if I were to be unmasked. Do you really think I would say the things I say when others who have said similar things publicly have been the recipients of death threats?
You might think twice before spreading the stuff that might qualify as slander, since it is not protectd speech and will subject you to suit, as you now understand.
I always DID think twice. Which is why I have never uttered a word against Ms. Greenbaum that could be construed as slander - except in the minds of those so blinded by their take on this community's problems that they can't grasp reality.
Do you think it ever even occured to Ms. Greenbaum to (gasp) explain her policies in the face of criticism?
No. She chose to file a frivolous lawsuit and waste the court's time and money. I think that, on top of many other issues that I have enumerated here on my blog, make her unsuitable to run the school board in a community already so harmed by the rift.
Anonymous said...
Dr. Barbara, getting called a bigot is hardly a TEENY bit of the situation. And there is a concept at law that some words are so eggregious - like accusations of bigotry - they don't have to be "disproven" as you and OM now want to insist. Sorry Mrs. Greenbaum won't be pushed around to your liking, but you're not in the high school gym anymore.
Getting called a bigot is OPINION. It is also (as all but agreed to by Mr. Feder in court) not an actionable statement in NY case law. Again. I'm sorry Ms. Greenbaum was so offended by the designation, but she could have felt free to
A) defend herself.
B) contact me to ask me to remove the comment (she never did).
For anyone to pretend that this lawsuit was anything but an attempt by Ms. Greenbaum to silence a critic of her policies is an insult to the intelligent people who frequent my blog.
Thanks Barbara.
My recap of tonight's event:
Pam brought up cyberbullying. I wish she would shut up on the lawsuit. She made a huge mistake in filing. I wish she hadn't. It deflects from the issues. I actually agree with her on many. Didn't get to hear much about them tonight. She pushed the public/private conflict too much for my tastes. Arent we trying to fix that now and not make it worse? She also kept talking about having "plans in place". Whose plans and in which place? She also complained about wealthy special interest groups. I guess he means the orthos, but she could also be speaking about the LTA. That sword cuts two ways.
Maribel couldn't answer ONE question she was asked. Kept saying that when she's on the board she would consult experts to help her answer the issues. Just what we need for this fractured comunity. Someone with George W Bushes view on knowing things. WE need to someone who can answer a question. Not someone who will be led around by various special interest groups (cough-LTA-cough-inwood machine-cough).
Sussman was great. I understand that the public school parents are supposed to view him as the devil, but it's hard to see a man who seems to want to be an advocate for all children in the district to be a devil. He made a great impression tonight. Info at the tips of his fingers, spoke about the community as a family that must come together.
Levy was Levy. As loudmouthed as he is at every other board meeting. But Sussman got him but good on a GATE point that he got wrong. If you're going to be loud, at least try to be right. He did talk about getting rid of the divisions in the district, but still made sure to play the blame game with the new board as the bad guys. Questioned the 28k/student number. Said we need matrons for pre-k busing. Said hes qualified b/c he worked on wall st.
Marcus was compelling. His kid has special needs and he had to sue to get equal services. He made some very good points about what he thinks is the lack of equity in the district, and his personal experience made him very sincere.
My scorecard: Sussman-Marcus.
I totally agree with OM. Pam dragging OM in to court does not make me feel like she is dealing with issues. Do you think shes the first elected official to be called a bigot? It's ridiculous. Tell us why youre not a bigot.
OM, I see what you're doing. We're all on to you.
Now, I shall unmask your true intentions:
You just posted a comment containing the following sentence:
A comment that questions Ms. Greenbaum's motivations in the face of her stated policies is NOT hideous, nor defamatory.
This is a very clever cover up for what you really want too say. Allow me to demonstrate your devious method:
A comment that questions Ms. Greenbaum's motivations in the face of her stated policies is NOT hideous, nor defamatory.
And now, I present OM's real message:
Ms. Greenbaum's face is hideous
For shame!!!
I started reading Orthomom's blog months ago when I was seeking out Jewish blogs to read. I'm in Texas - I don't have any investment in anything, directly, as far as what goes on in your area.
I can say that despite my distance, I've been flatly amazed as to what's going on here. I don't think that any of you have any idea what you all look like to an outsider. I've read the news coverage, and the legal briefs in rapt fascination. The issues brought up - parents that pay private school tuition wishing to get some benefit from the taxes they pay, religious issues, tolerance issues. It ran the gamut, was thought provoking, and I followed it all with interest from a distance.
When the lawsuit was filed, I was floored. This post, in light of that lawsuit, amazes me. It amazes me because a public official is suing because someone called her a "bigot", and in a public forum in an official capacity, she name-called someone a "cyberbully". The blatant hypocrisy is absolutely, flatly astounding. The fact that her supporters are running in here and supporting her opinionated ad hominem attack against Orthomom while, in the same post, supporting her lawsuit against Orthomom for an opinionated ad hominem attack...
Honestly, are you people daft? Are you really so blinded by hatred and anger that you don't see the correlation? Do you really not see how you are supporting behavior that you condemn - all depending on who does it and whether you politically agree with them?
If this is what's taught in public schools, frankly, it's no wonder that people choose to educate privately. If this is the caliber of leaders available to the public schools in your area, it's no wonder there is a problem. If this is the opposition and they are this affected by blind rage, it's no wonder that there is difficulty dialoging.
I thought Pam would at least be smart enough to avoid the lawsuit issue entirely tonight. It doesn't put her in a good light. Namecalling is not a help either.
this post makes you sound overly defensive and whiny. there's no substance. it's just another 'oh poor me.'
she's a jerk and she's wrong. we get it (i agree too), but posts on the matter w/o substance just make you look bad.
I support OM because I believe in the First Amendment.
Blogs are opinionated. If you don't like it, don't read it.
PM did shoot herself in the foot. PM also did 1000's of good things for the children over the many years (at least 15) that she's been involved in the district.
OM does remove things that is not to her liking, as well as leaves a few in.
I hold OM responsible for fanning the flames on that Larry Gordon article that, and it is clear, a member of the Orthodox community doctored and brought to him, trying to blame it on the public school parents/ALPS and whomever else. I can truthfully and objectively say this. My investigation has finished on this issue and this is where this issue ends.
The bottom line is that the arguments that are both within the Orthodox community ("in-fighting") and with the public school parents should stop. There are more serious issues lying ahead that needs to be dealt with by both sides of the fence as far as education is concerned.
A) defend herself.
B) contact me to ask me to remove the comment (she never did).
For anyone to pretend that this lawsuit was anything but an attempt by Ms. Greenbaum to silence a critic of her policies is an insult to the intelligent people who frequent my blog.
EXACTLY!! AMEN ORTHOMOM!!
If someone has a problem with something on one of my blogs - they need to take it up with ME in a civil & adult manner. Not file a frivolous lawsuit.
No one is pushing around Mrs. Greenbaum - I have been called a lot of things in my lifetime and will probably be called more and you know what? I learned to just roll with it. Its a big world and if you don't like me - fine... NEXT!
It's a big internet -- if you don't like a blog - click to the next or hit delete.
Being called BIGOT is an opinion and as far as I know, we are still living in America and law of the land supports Orthomom maintaining her anonymity and tells Mrs. Greenbaum to take her ego and rhetoric somewhere else. There are so many other IMPORTANT issues to put ones energy into. Like peace and reconciliation.
Try it, instead of blaming and trying to shame Orthomom or anyone who supports her.
Shalom, Orthomom!
Who is PM? If you're refering to Mrs. Greenbaum, I agree she has done many beneficial things over the years for the children in our district when she was an active PTA member and officer.
She has also done many things to undermine all the good she has done by becoming an obstrctionist on the BOE since she's been in the minority.
While in the majority, I would question her actions in approving the LTA contract, extending the ALA contract and granting Fitzsimmons guarnteed increases for three years, at the 11th hour BEFORE the new majority BOE took office. She also needs to break her ties with the LTA so she can at least be somewhatobjective. Her lawsuit was a huge mistake in judgemunt.
I firmly believe new blood is needed on the BOE, unfortunately the two longest sitting members are facing each other.
Both should retire.
8:12 AM: Good points. Yes, I did mean PG.
Sussman was part of that big vote too.
anon 8:36 sussman was part of that vote too.
True enough, although sussman's vote was NO! NO to LTA, NO to Fitzsimmons.
OrthoMom, you keep on trucking. Pam is the bully, and anyone who says otherwise is just not thinking straight.
On a side note, I think it's funny that it's always the Anonymous that attacks you. It's never a real blogger fighting you, or a real person with a real name to back their opinion up. It's always some ghost hiding behind an anonymous signature.
I wonder what that says about someone.
2:39 PM wrote: "It's always some ghost hiding behind an anonymous signature. I wonder what that says about someone."
Well, silly goose, everyone is awaiting the outcome of the lawsuit. Even if a "real blogger" name were used (and I have about 10), it means nothing, as people hide behind names they make up.
OrthoMom's blog, which I support, is being watched by an international audience.
Next time, think before you write.
Your "right" is to free speech and not anonymous free speech. Read your consitution and case law on the first amendment.
You may not be a bully, but, to draw a playground analogy, you are like the bully's best friend. The one who taunts and incites and then retreats behind the (bigger) bully so she can be totally protected.
Hey Cyberbully..
Were you there ? I do not think I heard Pam say that.
Get your facts right.
Stop stirring the pot.
Your "right" is to free speech and not anonymous free speech. Read your consitution and case law on the first amendment.
Quit quibbling. Pam is attacking OM's right to free speech -- anonymous or otherwise. If we take Pam at her word, she is arguing that the statements made by orthomom and her commenters are defamatory and entitle Pam to money damages. So not only is she saying that her critics can't speak anonymously -- she is saying they can't speak at all.
Welcome to Cuba. Or China. Or North Korea. I hope you enjoy your stay.
Were you there ? I do not think I heard Pam say that.
Get your facts right.
She did. Have your hearing checked.
I hear fine.
You do not listen well.
OM
when is the Bris . Is the nany keeping you up at night
David S said...
Hey Cyberbully..
Were you there ? I do not think I heard Pam say that.
Get your facts right.
Stop stirring the pot.
Then you heard wrong. Because I doubt highly that the numerous people who e-mailed me to tell me that she called me a Cyberbully, repeatedly, heard wrong. I doubt there is such an epidemic of hearing problems in SD15.
Your "right" is to free speech and not anonymous free speech. Read your consitution and case law on the first amendment.
Ok, let's review it right now:
Anonymous communications have an important place in our political and social discourse. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the right to anonymous free speech is protected by the First Amendment. A much-cited 1995 Supreme Court ruling in McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission reads:
"Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views . . . Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society."
The tradition of anonymous speech is older than the United States. Founders Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay wrote the Federalist Papers under the pseudonym "Publius," and "the Federal Farmer" spoke up in rebuttal. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized rights to speak anonymously derived from the First Amendment.
Any questions?
Here we go again.... fighting about issues that are not on table again.
For all the reasons described above, THOSE are why people are anonymous on this blog.
I bet there are a lot of two-faced people out there - hiding on these blogs and spewing garbage, while in person, you're a saint and the most loving person. Get real.
I am an OM supporter because I believe she has her right to free speech - and I am a good catholic girl and catholic school children.
OM, you have not cited the source of your quote. The case cited within the quoted text does not establish that anonymous status entitles anyone a shield from civil liability for slander. That is a separate issue. The rule is: say what you want, but be willing to pay if you cross the line.
Anonymous said...
OM, you have not cited the source of your quote. The case cited within the quoted text does not establish that anonymous status entitles anyone a shield from civil liability for slander. That is a separate issue. The rule is: say what you want, but be willing to pay if you cross the line.
I think we all know that questioning a public official's stance on issues relating to her constituents is not slanderous in any version of reality. You can keep trying to rewrite my words all you want, but all of us not living in bizarro world know that there was no slander.
Let's see how the local papers report the meeting and what was said.
What happaned at the 5/1 BOE meeting??
Im convinced that most people on this blog are insane and need serious professional help...This is the true problem within this district. We have lunatics that live in it....god help us all.....
OM, you have not cited the source of your quote.
Um. Maybe read the comment again? She cites the Supreme Court case of McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission. The text that brackets that quote merely echoes the same idea. What's the difference where it comes from?
The case cited within the quoted text does not establish that anonymous status entitles anyone a shield from civil liability for slander. That is a separate issue.
Stop moving the goalposts. You originally denied that there was a right to anonymous speech. When proven dead wrong, you now say that the question is whether anonymous speech protects "slander" (at this point you may aant to consult your "consitution and case law on the first amendment." The correct term is libel, not slander. Slander is defamatory speech.). Of course, defamation - whether done anonymously or not - is not protected by the First Amendment and if that's your starting assumption then there really is nothing to talk about. But that wasn't your original claim.
Of course, if you can explain why om's statements were defamtory, then that's a different story. But so far no one has done so.
OM, I would not answer any statements concerning anonymous speech. You don't want to get trapped into something that may be used against you.
"Of course, defamation - whether done anonymously or not - is not protected by the First Amendment."
Wrong! Defamation is protected by the First Amendment to the extent that it cannot be stopped by an injunction. However, a defamer can be found liable for damages - compensatory and/or punitive.
All of you jailhouse lawyers who claim the protection of the First Amendment without knowing what you're talking about should be prosecuted for practicing law without a license. Those of you who have the license and take the position that one can say whatever one wants, should find another line of work.
"All of you jailhouse lawyers who claim the protection of the First Amendment without knowing what you're talking about should be prosecuted for practicing law without a license. Those of you who have the license and take the position that one can say whatever one wants, should find another line of work."
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I remember you!! You were the one who was CONVINCED that orthomom would lose because she had no standing. Rmemeber this one?
REALLAWYER said...
reallawyerwithabrain probably got a law degree from a correspondence course and is still trying to pass the bar exam after 50 tries. The legal proceeding was not started with a subpoena. You don't know the difference between a subpoena, a summons, a motion, a submarine or a sub-human like yourself.
Only a party to a legal proceeding can address a motion, counterclaim or anything else to it, with one exception. It is called a friend of the court (amicus curae) brief, which can be submitted by someone who has an interest in the proceeding, but is not named in it.
reallawyerwithabrain needs an MRI to determine if anything occupies that space between his or her ears. It certainly is not a brain. Better make sur your malpractice insurance is paid up.
Or how about this one:
reallawyer said...
Othomom is not a named defendant in the pending legal proceeding, but only mentioned in the petitioner's affidavit. Sorry Orthomom, you do not have standing to bring on a motion, yet. If you do, and you lose, THAT will make headlines.
Oh this is too rich. How about this one (this was my comment from that thread):
"A non-party can't be heard but he can become a party be intervening. While I am not sure what the precise procedural vehicle for intervening in this type of proceeding would be, I have no doubt that she can be heard."
Which, of course, is exactly what happened. I guess this jailhouse lawyer knows a bit more than you. Or maybe Judge Friedman needs an "MRI to determine if anything occupies that space between his or her ears" as well.
Before opening up your big mouth again, it might be a good idea to choose a different screenname first.
I find it amazing to see how many people posted about pam greenbaum, Would it not be nice to focus on the real issues, I was at the debate, and I find that the perceptions of the above not true. I found Levey to be fair and honest, Pam Greenbaum was okay, Marcus was okay too, although I would have like to hear more than special education. I feel sorry for his son, but I need to no more, Sussman, I just can't deal, bringing up gate, like it is a big secret that every child after testing is qualified, while our board searches for equality amongst free building usage, which brings in 80,000 a year in income, the children receive non of what they deserve. How about the pre-k busing that shows equality, wrong, once again, fiscal responsibility is putting the private school children in danger. This board cares about one thing special interest groups. While we all get riled up by dumb issues like Pam Greenbaum, our childrens education goes down the tubes, 300,000 cut from chldrens programs. That shows the priorities of this district. Also, where is the concern for next year where testing and administration of services will be done by the school district the child attends school. NYC a little easier on services, good luck getting them, The city has already informed districts they do not have the therapists. Other districts do not provide services at school. But hey lets blog about Pam, Call me crazy, but who cares about the law suit. Let us focus on September, because people are in for a big wake-up. It is too bad more people did not show up to stand up to this board to request a liason to help next semptember, insist on funds that were taken away from the reading programs be put back, no let us continue with Pam, it is much easier than knowing the board has an agenda and we all are screwed
While we are quoting legal documents
Below find captions from the National Board Ethics Guide
1.Avoid being placed in a position of conflict of interest;
No comment needed. Which board member sits on a board trying to get money from the state to private school parents
2.Take no private action that will compromise the board or administration, and respect the confidentiality of information that is privileged under applicable law; and
3.Remember always that my first and greatest concern must be the educational welfare of the students attending the public schools
Now I don't know about you, but I think this sums it up.
Nothing cut from children services by Mansdorfs Bd.Greenbaum gives away the LTA contract.Greenbaum worries about "wealthy: special interest groups and Sussman answers Levey that it was " public sachool bds. and not this one that cut gate. Then we have the blogger at 3:01. Why tell the truth about candidates nite when you can fabricate?
once again OM has chosen to divide instead of discussing the issues...cheers and kudos to you and YOUR community. you talk about 1/2 a story it should be OM's slogan "come here for the orthodox side of the story " even if a point is made all it takes is 1 maybe 2 blogs to distract from the issues and get back to the real purpose of your blog and that is to divide
job well done !!
you should be proud of yourself, me, i think i want to puke
anyone but anonymous said...
once again OM has chosen to divide instead of discussing the issues...cheers and kudos to you and YOUR community. you talk about 1/2 a story it should be OM's slogan "come here for the orthodox side of the story " even if a point is made all it takes is 1 maybe 2 blogs to distract from the issues and get back to the real purpose of your blog and that is to divide
job well done !!
you should be proud of yourself, me, i think i want to puke
Lol. Pam sues, then calls OM names. And OM is the one divsive. It's like you live in an alternate reality.
not nearly alternate enough
why shouldnt OM be mad at Pam? She's making OM spend money to defend herself from a frivolous claim. I would be mad.
public sachool bds. and not this one that cut gate
Gate was 276,000 in 2005/2006
76,000 in 2006/2007
33,000 in 2007/2008
Now Dr. Sussmans public school board gate cut was the very board minus the two new board members. Correct me if I am wrong but sussman,mansdorf,forman,kopilow
Greenbaum were all on the board when the money was cut. Then this years board who boast the public school children had no cuts. 52.5%, Greenbaum giving the LTA contract away. Perhaps proper communication from this board would explain better. The lowest raise, the most contribution to benefits, a community that feels they are entitled to more than legally allowed, gee your right they got away with murder. Lets all run out to pass a budget with no plan for the new special ed laws,technology,oh excuse me 265,000 out of 5 millon needed, over a million dollars in program cuts, and not matrons for 3 and 4 year olds, next year a budget increase of 5%, hot dog, let me vote yes right now. When a child in pre-k is injured on the bus, try not to blame greenbaum for that, why is everything centered aroun Mrs. Greenbaum, move forward and work on your kids education.
Is Greenbaum running? Did she make the comment about "wealthy special interest groups during candidates night? Is she suing Orthomom? Did she add fuel to the fire by talking about "Cyberbullies" at Candidates Night? Why are people talking about Greenbaum indeed?
The mere existence of these hate-spewing postings is pathetic…truly pathetic. I find it deplorable that of all these comments, mere handfuls are dealing with the education of our children. I couldn’t care less about Orthomom, Pam Greenbaum or the School Board in their entirety. I am however alarmed when I have no voice among the school board which is supposed to protect my child who by the way, does receive Special Education services. My child does not attend a Yeshiva, does that mean that I have no chance at the school district paying his tuition if and when it becomes necessary? All of you people (and that is both public and private school, lets get this straight) should bury your heads in the sand until you appreciate that until all sides are equally represented, the customary rhetoric will continue. Ohhhh, she called me a bigot, let me sue…. Ohhh, she sued me, let me continue the same garbage that got me here. No, she shouldn’t have sued, but you (OM) should consider that continually making statements from behind a veil of anonymity is just plain cowardice. She shouldn’t continue to drive the suit and it’s alleged legitimacy since I believe it would have been better to simply email and ask for it’s removal and you should consider that if you truly believe in what you say, you should say it on the steps of City Hall in public and not in an anonymous blog.
Wow. So many disturbing comments yesterday and overnight. Let me deal with a few that disturbed me. Anon 307: You contend that private school parents on the school board are somehow improperly biased. why does the same not hold true for public school parents (let alone a candidate whose wife works for District 15). I don't think either should be a bar from running or serving, but what is good for the goose ... . In addition, lest you forget, we are all taxpayers, is there not a conflict there too in your view? Indeed, remember: "taxation without representation is tyrany."
Anyonebutanonymous seems to want to take orthomom to task for not presenting an unbiased view. Why? This is her blog: she can, and should, present her views, whatever they are. If you don't like it, troll someplace else. She blogs as orthomom not unbiasedmom.
Finally, I still don't get why people who want to equalize access to non-mandated "extras" (i.e. pre-k bussing) are somehow magically transformed into people who don't care about the children of the community. No one from the private school community (that I have heard from) has asked that all pre-k bussing be cut (which would hurt some children in the community), only that this non-mandated "extra" be available equally. I really have a hard time understanding why people of good will oppose this equalization (please don't try to misdirect by pointing to the matron issue, I am talking about the larger point of equal access to non-mandated "extras").
Didn't Dr Sussman's BOE approve non-public pre-k busing a few years back with matrons? What was the cost back then? How many schools were served? Were there any problems associated with providing that service? Was there as much anomosity over the issue back then? Just wondering.
"(please don't try to misdirect by pointing to the matron issue, I am talking about the larger point of equal access to non-mandated "extras").”
I don't disagree with the rest of the post; however I do hold issue with this statement. Why is Pre-K busing such an issue? I don't think that any Public School Parent is against Pre-K busing for the Private School Children, yet all I keep hearing is how we (Public School Parents) don't want busing. Enough already, we don't care if you have busing...we do however care if the children are safe...Place a matron on the buses now before we have to address a tragedy, why is this so hard to comprehend? It seems that someone in the Private School Community keeps handing Private School Parents this nonsense and you are buying it, can we get past what is in all actuality a non-issue and move on to the issue of sharing education dollars. The Public School Community has already made it perfectly clear what they want for their children, maybe someone from the Private Schools should step up and actually voice your wants and needs instead of running in circles with the busing non-issue. A clear and concise edict of educational requests would be nice, since so far, all I know is that the private school parents want busing and free building usage. Someone please step up to the microphone and speak about wants, needs or God forbid an actual issue, but if nothing else, stop arguing about nothing.
No one from the private school community (that I have heard from) has asked that all pre-k bussing be cut
As a public school parent I have no problems with Pre-k Busing, As far as the Public pre-k the reason why up until this year we kept busing is the grant we received for 400,000 included the requirement of busing. I agree with above, fight for your childs education. Free building usage is not feasible. We receive 80,000 in income a year from different groups. Over 100,000 was cut from the custodians budget with overtime it is fiscally irresponsible. How bout educational programs.
Anon 3:25 - All of the ocmplaints I heard about the pre-k bussing (in the comments section of this blog) before the "discovery" of the matron issue, was that money from the limited resources available to the system should not go to pay for private school children to get pre-k bussing because it is not mandated. It was only after the "discovery" of the matron issue that it replaced cost as the reason given for opposing pre-k busing for private school children. Let me be clear, I am not accusing you or any other person in particular of raising this issue as a "red herring," I understand, and appreciate, that it is a real concern for many people. That said, it clearly is being used as a smokescreen by many voicing objection to pre-k bussing for district private school children.
To anon 7:30 I understand your objection to free building usage. I come at it from the other side. From my perspective, I pay a whole lot in taxes to this school District. Because I choose to send my children to private school, I get a whole lot less back than I put in. I am fine with that. In fact, I agree that is how it should be (and I recognize that I, and society as a whole, get an inangible benefit from what is hopefully a well-educated populace). That said, since I am paying a full assessement in taxes, I do look to get whatever I can from the system that is equitable. I don't complain or begrudge the District's athletic expenditures. I think they are important. But if our taxes are paying for bussing, coaches, and after school use of the fields for athletic pursuits by public school students, why shouldn't my kids be able to use the District's fields on sundays to play ball at no added cost. I am not asking that the building be opened so that my son doesn't have to "hold it in" until we get home, just that we be able to use the fields when they aren't being utilized for public school activities. Just as the public school community has access to the District's buildings and fileds after the school day ends (or before it begins if there are early practices), why shouldn't the rest of the tax paying community too? I understand you may disagree, but I don't think my position is inherently unreasonable.
Not being orthodox nor a parent of school age kids I have not allowed myself to become mentally involved in the goings on regarding the school board - until I read the disgusting ads in the Nassau Herald. I am going to vote May 15 even though I have never voted in the 19 years I am living here. Doesn't she realize that when they load on the trains, she'll first in line!
Bonnie S
Observer said...
"why shouldn't my kids be able to use the District's fields on sundays to play ball at no added cost. I am not asking that the building be opened so that my son doesn't have to "hold it in" until we get home, just that we be able to use the fields when they aren't being utilized for public school activities. Just as the public school community has access to the District's buildings and fileds after the school day ends (or before it begins if there are early practices), why shouldn't the rest of the tax paying community too? I understand you may disagree, but I don't think my position is inherently unreasonable."
Actually, it's not that simple, although your position IS inherently reasonable. The 'public school community' doesn't get to use all the fields, though. Just the public school KIDS get to use them.
A ball field can't be used all the time without getting beaten up. So either the maintainance costs go up or everyone plays on a crappy field. At the elementary school my kid attended, there was a beautiful baseball field in the back. One day she told me the kids in her school couldn't play on it because it was where the High School played their games. So sometimes even the public school kids can't use the fields, never mind the general public.
Will someone please tell me the cost of the Prk-K busing WITH matrons during Susman's tenure a few years ago? It's got to be known to the administration or can easily be researched and published.
Goyguy: I responded to your comments a little earlier. I wonder where my comments went? (I am not saying OM deleted them, I am saying I messed up and just wonder where they ended up). Anyway, two points in response. First, you claim that it is the "KIDS" not the entire public school community, that uses the fileds. Well, it is kids who play Little league and to use the fields, not the entire private school community. As to use of the fileds, the better fields are off limits to us too. For example, at Lawrence High School, the one field which is kept up and loooks nice, is off limits to our kids too. Instead, we play on the three overgrown unkept fileds that are chock full o' goose manure (so I guess they are literally crappy). This puts us in the same boat your son was when he was in elementary school. Sounds fair, no?
I hope that the OM positing on the new adds won't be the end of relatively civil discourse, but I fear that result.
Observer said...
"Instead, we play on the three overgrown unkept fileds that are chock full o' goose manure (so I guess they are literally crappy)."
I'm not against having ball fields for everyone to use. I just don't think it should be free. Certainly at least SOME of the cost should be paid by the users. I'm not saying to start making money off it, but spread the costs out a little. Plus, if you charge a fee, there won't be any squawking about people from out of the district being on the teams. For the record, when the #1 school sale was being proposed, I suggested that selling the land was madness as you never know what can happen in the future. My suggestion was to rip it down and build ballfields for ALL the kids in the district to use, and keep the property for future contingencies. Your position is still reasonable.
"I hope that the OM positing on the new adds won't be the end of relatively civil discourse, but I fear that result."
I don't even know what to say about the ads. When I grew up in the 60's Cedarhurst was such a wonderfully diverse little place. There were Orthodox families on my block. We never put much thought into it. There were Italian and Irish immigrants, families that went back to colonial times, second and third generation Americans of every background. Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, Orthodox Jews. Black families, Hispanic families, interracial families. Rich people, poor people, and all the rest of us. Our Orthodox neighbors were just part of the fabric of the community.
Some kids went to public school, some went to parochial schools, some went to private schools.
Now I'm not saying that it was one big happy family, but no one seemed to pay much attention to all the differences. My folks still live there and so do the people in four of the other seven houses on the block, all of whom were there before us. They all still get along just fine. Reform, Orthodox and Catholic
All of this misunderstanding and hatred is really very sad :-(
It's not the ones that have been here for 20, 30, 40 years. No matter what the race/religion/ethnicity, it is the ones who have been coming for the last 10 years that have their noses up in the air and trying to outdo each other. That is the shame of it all.
I guess many didn't check their real estate taxes when they moved here. We've been paying high amounts all along.
go to hell orthomom for pam was our last stand. you were and are a bully and a disgrace to our jewish community. you make the jewish community seem arrigant obnoxious rude and just plain horrific. shape up or ship out.
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