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Friday, August 05, 2005


Apparently, some feel that there was not enough condemnation from our community in the wake of yesterday's terrorist attack by an Israeli, who shot and killed 4 Israeli arabs on a bus, and wounded many more. As posted on Treppenwitz:
In the past I have posted about the need for people to speak out loudly and denounce acts of Jewish extremism, but on a quick tour around the Internet and the blogosphere this morning I see precious little of this.
So lest there be any ambiguity about what my feelings are regarding this horrible attack, let me make it very clear that I am aghast and appalled. The dead include two young women and the driver of the bus.
Among the victims were two young sisters, Hazar and Dina Turki, 23 and 21-years-old respectively, and the driver of the bus, Michel Bahous, 56. Nadir Hayak, 55, a passenger on the bus, was killed as well.
The shooter also directed his fire outside the bus, and casualties included pedestrians and bystanders.
This was simply an act of terror. There is no other way to look at it.
This was a killing motivated by the killer's political views.
In the words of his aunt:
She characterized her nephew as a "wonderful boy." She said he was against disengagement. "What can you do, he was against disengagement?"
A bit too reminiscent of the justifications provided by relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers for my tastes.

We need to do better.


Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

"In the past I have posted about the need for people to speak out loudly and denounce acts of Jewish extremism, but on a quick tour around the Internet and the blogosphere this morning I see precious little of this."

There was plenty of denouncing in the mainstream media, but on the blogs not so much. This seems pretty pashut to me. Thanks OrthoMom for being normal.

1:20 PM  
Blogger AMSHINOVER said...

sad very sad.every place we go to in galus we pick up someoneelses luggage.now we've become terrorists

1:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This act of terror was caused by the rishus of the evil ariel sharon.

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This act of terror was caused by the rishus of the evil ariel sharon.

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This act of terror was caused by the rishus of the evil ariel sharon.

2:01 PM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

Anon, are you sure?

2:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon said it three times, didn't s/he? Sounds pretty sure to me. :-P

3:01 PM  
Blogger and so it shall be... said...

"Apparently, some feel that there was not enough condemnation from our community"

You want condemnation? Our existence is condemnation enough. Jewish people don't have to bend over backwards to prove to the world that death and murder are horrifying acts of inhumanity.

This kid was a crackpot. I think Jews have done enough through their actions in how arabs are treated with kid gloves and how napalm hasn't been showered on arab villages to prove that we're aware of that.

Only murderous animals need to go that extra length. And because they don't, it's all the more inhumane.

3:10 PM  
Blogger Jack Steiner said...

There is no excuse for this man's actions. He created more hurt and pain and is not around to witness he chaos he created.

5:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so what's the big deal ? for once some of them got it.yes,it's wrong and we should not condone it.but let's not blow this thing out of proportion.please remember the animalistic behavior of the arab lynch mob.

6:27 PM  
Blogger BBJ said...

I remember well enough that the thought of a Jew mimicking those actions, the thought of a Jew casually dismissing the murder of Israeli civilians as payback makes me sick.

Three families are mourning tonight, and Hamas is celebrating their new poster op. What's the big deal? Four human beings dead, on a bus. Even after all the killing that came before, still a big deal.

1:37 AM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Orthomom: You wanna beat someone up over this? Try the IDF and Israeli Police. The soldier's family had been begging the army and police to find their IDF-AWOL son and take away his IDF issued weapon. The solider himself begged the army to discharge him. However, the Sharon family has instructed the Israeli Police to go after the Sharon family political opponents (mainly, 12-14 year old girls who blocked traffic using passive civil disobedience). These girls have been locked up for more than 5 weeks, and this is what the police worry about. But, when this imbalenced solider is AWOL with a rifle, and his parents are begging for the IDF and police to do something...that they don't have time for.

Sorry, I don't feel guilty over this at all. Sad for the families...but no guilt.

Lastly; Why aren't the police looking for the killers of this soldier? What ever happened to due-process? Whenever a Jew would do something like this, the entire leftist establishment would be up in arms! What? Kill a terrorist? G-d forbid! There are courts/police/law enforcement to deal with that...taking the law into your own hands?

Oops. Double Standard again. Never mind.

(and yes, I condemn the soldier's actions, but do NOT feel guilty. Not as a Jew. Not as an Israeli. The screwup lies with the IDF, Police and Shabak)

6:39 PM  
Blogger Rebecca said...

Well, some people are doing their best to avoid the fact that a Jew killed other human beings in cold blood. I remember when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated - I was in Israel, on a sherut going to the airport (at the end of a week-long visit). We heard it on the radio, and one of my fellow Jewish passengers said that it couldn't possibly be a Jew who had done this.

And don't blame Ariel Sharon for this attack. Blame the extremists in the settler movement who have been engaging in the most over-the-top rhetoric possible for inciting someone like this. The people who compare the disengagement from Gaza to the deportations to the death camps create the atmosphere that makes people like this snap. If the disengagement is like sending people to the camps, then anything is justified to stop it. And let us also not forget that the perpetrator was a member of Kach, a banned organization in Israel that has advocated racism against Arabs for many years.

I remember one day in Jerusalem stumbling upon a Kach demonstration in the center of the city. I stood on the outskirts of the (thuggish) crowd to listen to Meir Kahane speak (this was in 1988, I think). He was speaking in the most disgusting way possible about Arabs and how there should be laws forbidding sexual relations between Jews and Arabs - shades of the Nuremberg laws. I left shaking with anger. Let's not pretend that we don't have racists among us.

And let us not forget the plots of the Jewish underground in the early 1980s to blow up the Temple Mount.

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you for bringing this up! my sentiments exactly.

10:53 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

OM-I was in your neck of the woods for Shabbos and though I davened at the earlier minyan in the bais medrash (where ir miklat was the main topic), I heard that Rabbi Teitelbaum in YILC did speak about it quite strongly in the main shul and I overheard him discussing it further during shalosh seudos.

1:37 AM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Rebecca: Jews kill people all the time...Jews and others. Guess what? There are Jewish wife killers and Jewish husband killers, and Jewish burglars, and Jewish drug dealers, Jewish sex offenders, and Jewish tax evaders.

Now, you take a mentally unstable AWOL soldier, who's parents are begging the army to find him before he does something crazy, and blame him on the anti-disengagement movement? Tens of thousands of anti-disengagement people demonstrate against a terrible thing, which has many shades of deportation. No, its not death camp deportation - but its a horrendous human and Jewish tragedy. Or do you want to stifle my freedom of expression?

If the police would go after the extemists instead of the Sharon family's political opponets (specifically 14 year old girl passive civil disobedience traffic blockers) then maybe the shooting attack in Shfar'am would not have happened.

6:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No. The sad thing is that there are quite a few UO groups and forums and people out there who support this and have the attitude of " now they will see how we feel". These are the same people who feel that if you are not racist or don't agree with Kahane's philosophies, you are not really frum.

6:05 PM  
Blogger Rebecca said...

Jameel, of course I blame the disengagement movement - I blame the people who have engaged in over the top rhetoric, who are inciting people like this soldier to attack Arabs. They are not acting in a responsible manner.

I'm not interested in stifling your freedom of expression. I'm interested in stifling approval of murder or people making light of murder just because Jews do it.

11:46 PM  
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3:53 AM  

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