Five Towns Chicken Scandal Update
The Jewish Star files another dispatch on the Five Towns chicken controversy I blogged about here and here. Let me begin by saying that the Jewish Star's new editor continues to impress me with his thorough reporting and his clear insistence in following a story - no matter where it might take him, and who in the "establishment" it might annoy. We have a woeful dearth of responsible yet truthful and hard-hitting reporting on issues that pertain to the Orthodox community, so any steps in that direction are welcomed.
On to this week's story. This week's installment of the Five Towns Chicken Saga asks yet more questions that it answers. We learn from the article that Mark Bolender, the owner of Gourmet Glatt, is demanding a retraction from the Empire Kosher Poultry company for their statement in last week's Jewish Star article that some vendors mislabel their chicken deliberately to take advantage of the higher prices Empire's quality and reputation demand. He also disputes the Vaad's claim of last week that the mislabeled chicken that started the whole kerfuffle was actually problematic. The problem is, I can;t figure out what he's claiming as his defense. First, Mr. Bolender claims that the chicken was actually an Empire chicken after all:
But that's not all that bothers me. Take a look at the next statement Mr. Bolender makes to the Jewish Star:
But wait, there's more.
Please remember that in last week's article, Gourmet Glatt was reported to have been caught in two instances of mislabeling of chickens. So Mr. Bolender addresses the other, evidently indisputable case of mislabeling by his store, which was caught by the Vaad during a surprise inspection:
Moving on to another big question raised by Mr. Bolender's defense - but not, in this case, a Kashrut question. The frozen and thawed chicken claim:
Moving right along. Another issue that I have is this anonymous quote, in reference to Mr. Bolender's protestations of innocence:
In addition, the anonymous source's credibility is further undermined by the rest of his quote:
All in all, the Five Towns Chicken Scandal (That Wasn't?) just seems to get murkier and murkier as the he said/she said continues. Doesn't the Kosher consumer deserve better than this?
On to this week's story. This week's installment of the Five Towns Chicken Saga asks yet more questions that it answers. We learn from the article that Mark Bolender, the owner of Gourmet Glatt, is demanding a retraction from the Empire Kosher Poultry company for their statement in last week's Jewish Star article that some vendors mislabel their chicken deliberately to take advantage of the higher prices Empire's quality and reputation demand. He also disputes the Vaad's claim of last week that the mislabeled chicken that started the whole kerfuffle was actually problematic. The problem is, I can;t figure out what he's claiming as his defense. First, Mr. Bolender claims that the chicken was actually an Empire chicken after all:
The owners of Gourmet Glatt Emporium said they now believe that a one-and-a-half-pound Cornish hen their store was accused of mislabeling may have been an Empire bird after all, deep-frozen months ago, before Empire stopped producing birds of that weight.Okay. So Mr. Bolender seems to claim to have information that would seem to cause him to believe that the chicken that he sold was, in actuality, an Empire chicken, sold by his store after being frozen for over nine months. Fine. That's an intriguing, and seemingly plausible, line of defense. My only real questions with that line of defense are: (a)How does that theory jibe with the fact that last week, a spokesman for Empire was quoted as saying that the chicken was cut in a way that the Empire machines are not capable of producing, and (b)Why did it take Mr. Bolender two weeks (and two extremely damaging news cycles) to come up with this defense?
...Bolender acknowledged that Empire no longer sold one-and-a-half pound birds. He said he believed the chicken that was the subject of a consumer complaint to Empire and was later found to have been mislabeled actually was made by Empire, and frozen.
"It's possible these hens were from older shipments. I didn't agree with their fundamental findings," Bolender said, referring to the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Rockaway.
But that's not all that bothers me. Take a look at the next statement Mr. Bolender makes to the Jewish Star:
Bolender objected to the fact that he had never been offered the opportunity to confront the person who made the original complaint, and had not seen any proof, such as a register receipt, that the chicken was actually purchased in his store.So, wait. Mr. Bolender first claims to have an idea of how the type of chicken that Empire says it no longer sells got sold from his store - and then he raises the question of whether it was actually bought at his store? Which is it?
"I would be ready at any time to face my accuser," he said, "to see my receipt, my label and my alleged product, when it could have been from another store."
But wait, there's more.
Please remember that in last week's article, Gourmet Glatt was reported to have been caught in two instances of mislabeling of chickens. So Mr. Bolender addresses the other, evidently indisputable case of mislabeling by his store, which was caught by the Vaad during a surprise inspection:
He said the other chicken believed to have been mislabeled was stored in his freezer at home, following its discovery by Rabbi Eisen.Um, so, again? Which is it? Was the chicken in actuality a frozen Empire chicken, was it actually a chicken sold at another store, or was it a human error that could happen to anyone? I have no judgement as to whether any of the defenses presented by Mr. Bolender are true, but I do know that the triple lines of defense are confusing and seem contradictory. If I were him, I would try to pick a story and stick to it.
Twenty-five thousand different packages came out of the Gourment Glatt meat room over the holiday season. Bolender said he strives for 100 percent accuracy, but acknowledged that mistakes will happen.
"We're human," he said.
Moving on to another big question raised by Mr. Bolender's defense - but not, in this case, a Kashrut question. The frozen and thawed chicken claim:
Deep-freezing meat and poultry is a common industry practice, done to avoid supply interruptions, Bolender explained. Small notices in his meat and poultry cases alert customers that while most of what the store sells is fresh, some chickens and certain cuts of meat have been frozen to 15 degrees below zero, then carefully thawed and offered for sale at times of great demand. He said that when done properly, such freezing had no impact on taste.First, on a note specific to Gourmet Glatt. I'm not sure how "small" the "small signs" that are claimed to have always been posted in Gourmet Glatt's refrigerator cases notifying customers that meat may have been frozen and thawed are, but they must be small enough to have been missed time and again by my naked eye in the close to a decade that I have been steadily purchasing meat at Gourmet Glatt. I mean, I frequently buy meat and immediately refreeze it without cooking it first. According to the following information from the USDA:
Q. May I refreeze the food in the freezer if it thawed or partially thawed?Well, let's consider how that figures into the following scenario. I purchase chicken at Gourmet Glatt (or, if Mr. Bolender's claim that the practice freezing and thawing is an industry-wide practice is true, any other kosher market). Said chicken has been deep-frozen and thawed by the vendor. Then I put chicken in my car and do another errand or two. By the time I get home, the chicken is still quite cold when I refreeze it for later use - but has it been exactly below 40 degrees at all times, as recommended by the USDA's guidelines? No clue. But I also had no clue that it was required to be kept below that temperature, due to its potential frozen/thawed status. Is this claimed "industry-wide" practice as outlined by Mr. Bolender a food safety issue? Anyone have a clue?
A. Yes, the food may be safely refrozen if the food still contains ice crystals or is at 40 °F or below.
Moving right along. Another issue that I have is this anonymous quote, in reference to Mr. Bolender's protestations of innocence:
A person knowledgeable of the history of the relationship between Gourmet Glatt and the Vaad Hakashrus told The Jewish Star, "He's missing the point, as usual." The person was granted anonymity so as not to give the impression of public disagreementwith the Vaad's handling of the situation. "It's less about the bird than the word. Whenever Bolender is confronted it's always duck and dodge." He said the store's history with the Vaad was marked with mistrust as a result of different episodes over the years. He declined to go into detail but said, "hashgacha is there to catch mistakes, but it assumes a basic amount of trust" which, he said, does not exist.I just don't like the whole quote. Anyone who reads my blog knows how I feel about anonymous critics who take potshots at individuals in the news - which unfortunately seems to be a far too common occurence. I think it stinks. It's one thing if an anonymous source supplies certain facts that are essential to a story but insists on anonymity for personal or professional reasons. But when a source, who may or may not have a personal vendetta or axe to grind, levels criticism or poorly characterizes a subject in a newspaper article and then hides behind a veil of anonimity, I just hate it. If the source feels the urge come on to anonymously level criticism at someone/something, let him do what I did. Start a blog. Anonymous bloggers give up a large chunk of credibility by remaining anonymous - and that is something I am fully aware of. But we look to news for a far different service - facts. Mr. Bolender may or may not have been wronged here by the Vaad - I have no idea, and am in no place to judge. We can just hope the facts will eventually come out. I will say , however, that he has clearly been done a disservice at the hands of the anonymous source who brings nothing but innuendo and supposition to the conversation.
In addition, the anonymous source's credibility is further undermined by the rest of his quote:
Given the lack of trust, why does the Vaad continue to provide its hashgacha to the store?Huh? Which is it? First he says there are trust issues. Then he says that the Vaad does trust the supervision that Gourmet Glatt is hiring? What in the world is our anonymous source trying to say? Unclear.
"Because they trust the supervision," explained The Jewish Star’s source.
All in all, the Five Towns Chicken Scandal (That Wasn't?) just seems to get murkier and murkier as the he said/she said continues. Doesn't the Kosher consumer deserve better than this?
115 Comments:
perhaps rabbi eisen should have addressed this issue when he held the platform for 2 hours this week at the bustin shul in flatbush, but naturally, he was too busy pointing out other's failures.
my question is....has the jewish press yet decided what they want to report, who their source is, if the source is credible, and what actions the consumer shoud take about an unconfirmed, unverified, unidentified, and unspecified kashrush violation?
thats funny. rabbi eisen gave a shiur on kashrus.
isnt he full of controversy?
that issue last year in flatbush, now gourmet glatt, who nows were else in the five towns.
thats the last person i want giving me a shiur on kashrus.
I love how the same commenters come to complain about the rabbis in charge of kashrus again and again. this has nothing to do with that. this is about GG and their kashrus problems.
and to the person who says they have not seen the alleged chicken, there were 2 mislabeled chickens, and the owner admits that himself. you can say whatever you want about the first one, but the second one existed.
kosher consumer, i love how you dont answer any of the points in om's blog above. your constant vaad bashing is getting highly suspicious.
"kosher consumer said...
ANON above your comments would be counted if you would release your name.I am not Vaad bashing but as a attorney I dont see any evidence to date. "
I'm sorry, but is "kosher" your first name and "consumer" your last or vice versa?
I agree that giving anonymous quotes in the newspaper is not a classy thing to do when you are bashing somebody else. However, in this case, the anonymous quote is 100% accurate. If instead of speculating on a blog you would go over to your local Rav who has been involved in the vaad for many years and ask him about the accuracy of that quote, you will find that it is right on the mark.
I do not think there is a shred of credibility to any of the comments made on this blog as they are full of ridiculous potshots and made up facts. Ask your local rabbi for their opinion and when they give a pareve answer like "so long as the vaad certifies the store there is nothing wrong with buying there" push them a little further by asking if the quote in teh paper was accurate.
Mr. Kosher COnsumer-
Why do you contiue to assume that his whole situation was made-up?
You seem to not believe that this 'customer' exists.
How about calling Empire and asking them? This entie episdoe started with them, why lay the blame at R' Eisen's feet?
I am not defending him, or the Vaad, but why not ask questions to the people with the answers?
"kosher consumer said...
The last post is right on the money.
7:17 AM
kosher consumer said...
Where's the beef? Until I see the customer with the alledged "chicken" it may have been a potato -I believe this whole thing stinks from above!"
Kosher consumer, the content of your comments are indicative of a bias based on interests, not factual evidence. Talk about stuff that stinks...
Wouldn't it be funny that in the end no chicken was found?
In today's Jewish Star, GG himself admits that there was at least one 'mislabled' chicken, found by Rabbi Eisen and the he is keeping it in a freezer for safe keeping.
So much for:
"Wouldn't it be funny that in the end no chicken was found? "
What Eisen found was a chicken labeled KAJ OR VINELAND on the store sticker and inside the plumbas said Marvid. All of these chickens are priced the same for sale.The only problem would be if a customer was looking only for Bruers(kaj) and recieved
Marvid instead for hasgacha reasons only. I really believe there was a mistake but intent to defraud customers I say no -so why where the plumbas left on?
OM, yasher koach on the way you are reserving judgement here. I only wish your commenters were as responsible.
My humble thanks to the above writer. It is truly a shame that the community of the Five Towns can be brought into the limelight in such a horrible "loshon hora". I choose to not say my name but I was present at this Vaad meeting and witnessed Mr. Bolender bringing to the Rabbonim not once but twice two issues of Meats that was koshered by Alle Packing and questioning the Nikkur [ritual deveining]. Why Rabbi Eisen after being told the Nikkur [traditional devieining} was not done correctly and being requested to please come down at once to see for himself. The situations about Alle Packing[Under at least 2 or more supervisions] took place 5 weeks before the meeting and then the week before the meeting. The thousands of pounds of Meats which where corrected by Rabbi Ashkenzay and his staff at GG was never inspected by Rabbi Eisen after repeated phone calls. So one must ask when an owner cares so much what his customers are eating, in this case 5000+ pounds of meat and the Rabbi Eisen who doesn't take the time to followup on a potential that his community is consuming not correctly treibered [deveined] meats which could affect 1000's of our families table, so why one chicken which feeds at most 4 people can carry so much weight, especially since the question of Kashrus was never an issue. The answer, as heard at the Vaad meeting:Rabbi Eisen's answer:I know nothing about meat... so why are we paying him $120,000 plus benefits, doesn't make himself available to answer questions,but would rather spend his time at Hershey Park duing this week instead of correcting or clearing these wrongs. Sometimes we get what we pay for, in this case I would think twice.
once again, we are finally seeing the true situation of a Vaad out of control. Where was rabbi Eisen looking when Kosher spot sold treif,,, where was he when Nathans did the same under his supervision? why wont the Vaad answer the question why someone with so little knowledge of meat be put in such a high authority? These are the real questions our community should be asking of our Vaad representatives. also, i am under the impression that GG Rabbi Ashkenazy is an OU Rabbi who I have personally observed training new Mashgiachim. Why would the OU send Rabbi Ashkenazy new students to train if he was not a knowledgable and reputable Rabbinic supervisor of Kashrus?
Lets be clear about a few things:
The old Vaad was notorious for being absentee. So those who are complaining about R Eisen and singing R Chait's praises, you are dead wrong. R Chait didnt even employ any Mashgichim. That was brough about by the sweeping reforms of a few years ago. When I asked my Rebbe (a very well known Gadol) about eating in local Vaads, he told me that the Five Towns vaad provides top notch supervision in the recent years.
The story that Mr Bolender is claiming regarding the chickens may be true. Who knows. But the Vaad is there to investigate any anomalies to make sure that nothing happems on the scale of Monsey. Would you rather the Vaad had ignored Empire's complaint of mislabeling? You must be joking. The bottom line is, something fishy was going on at Gourmet Glatt. Was it Kashrut related? I trust that it wasnt, since the Vaad has allowed them to remain open. Were they bilking the customers? Possibly.
And to this guy:
"Regarding the signs in the freezer - I do remember seeing signs that said to freeze the meat withing 24 hours of purchase or something to that effect. I don't remember exactly and didn't pay much attention to it."
That has nothing to do with the refreezing of thawed meat, which is a health issue. Just because you are being tyold to freeze wityhin 24 hours, it says nothing about keeping below 40 degrees, or not freezing until after cooking. Is this a food safety concern?
"
Regarding the infamous chicken - it is not in Mr. Bolender's freezer, it is allegedly in Rabbi Eisen's freezer which is also at the moment a conflict of interest under the circumstances"
you seem to miss a point: there were TWO problematic chickens found. The first one may not have been ascertained as coming from GG to your satisfactyion, but the second mislabeling was caught red-handed by mashgischim. I, for one, and much mor likely to believe a Masgiach that he found something thaen a store owner who is under the gun and claims a conspiracy theory along the lines of oliver Stone.
The so called "chicken found by Rav Eisen was labeled kaj or vineland on the store ticket but the plumbas inside revealed crc hasgacha. Call and Ask Rav Eisen yourself.
The post above makes certain sense and would put this to bed for all. shabbat shalom cholam
Yeah, call the Vaad or it is a call center located in India to answer schaylas.
Lets be clear about a few things:
The old Vaad was notorious for being absentee. So those who are complaining about R Eisen and singing R Chait's praises, you are dead wrong. R Chait didnt even employ any Mashgichim. That was brough about by the sweeping reforms of a few years ago. When I asked my Rebbe (a very well known Gadol) about eating in local Vaads, he told me that the Five Towns vaad provides top notch supervision in the recent years.
The story that Mr Bolender is claiming regarding the chickens may be true. Who knows. But the Vaad is there to investigate any anomalies to make sure that nothing happems on the scale of Monsey. Would you rather the Vaad had ignored Empire's complaint of mislabeling? You must be joking. The bottom line is, something fishy was going on at Gourmet Glatt. Was it Kashrut related? I trust that it wasnt, since the Vaad has allowed them to remain open. Were they bilking the customers? Possibly.
And to this guy:
"Regarding the signs in the freezer - I do remember seeing signs that said to freeze the meat withing 24 hours of purchase or something to that effect. I don't remember exactly and didn't pay much attention to it."
That has nothing to do with the refreezing of thawed meat, which is a health issue. Just because you are being tyold to freeze wityhin 24 hours, it says nothing about keeping below 40 degrees, or not freezing until after cooking. Is this a food safety concern?
8:26 AM
It is clear to anyone reading the above two comments this anon writer who appears to be educated can easily "look, smell & taste and if worried call the Offical policing agents, for example The Dept of Health, food and Safety Division, the Dept of Weights and Measures and the Dept of Consumer Affairs which I HAVE DONE,Gourmet Glatt as a record you should be proud if your own child owned this store.Oh one additional note that you never saw anything relating to thawing or mataining food for safety purposes, please look in your freezer and perhaps now read the "Safe Handling Label" which is clear you didn't. What you miss is all these above Departments have Checks and Balances, the right to appeal there decisions, the right to sue them if found that there business waa hurt by "loshon Horah". We have given ultimate power to a person who "acted as the eyes and hears for the Rabbonim" a famous quote stated to this writer over and over again that All there trust lies in one man.Please ask your Rav or the person who shops for him if he ever had a problem with food not being fresh from GG? , the above allegations are an insult to all.I question who the above writer is and why shows the degree of anger. GG operates the Cleanless, most well organized store in our community, while I will say I would like to see more orthodox help in the store and lower prices would better my experience even more, I have always been treated fairly, I can clearly see every item on my receipt, so where is the isssue now, TRUST??? Think back is when we only had two kosher supermarkets? Who was the first to put in a computerized detailed scanning system? I don't believe this was Supersol.Enough of this and lets attempt to rebuild what we have wronged. Please, put your pride on the shelf and think about the "Loshon Horah", I personally do not like Mr. Bolenders choice in clothing,his haircut, the lenght of his sideburns but does that make him any less a person than you?? GG as helped to build this communtiy, its time for the community to start seeing and less hearing from others and go see for yourself how a store this size is managed.This store should be the standard for the Vaad of the Five Towns, not the stage to raise there personal feeling of importance. Good Shabbous and Good Yom Tov to all.
P.S. FYI Rabbi Chait did employ a roving Rabbinical overseer,a real Rabbi,Rabbi Cohen, FULL TIME and most stores did have on site supervision except for bakeries, so the above post please go back and study your history,
OK.. The 'orignal' chicken in question, bought by a consumer, was picked up in the 5T by an Empire rep and sent back to their facility in PA. It is not in the hands of Rabbi Eisen. The second chicken, found by Rabbi Eisen, is being held by him.
In terms of questionable nikur from Alle meat, what doe sthat have to do with re-lableing chicken?
Regarding, the re-labeling of Marvid as Vineland, how can you say the only ppl potentially dameged are those seeking KAJ ? Wat baout those that like Vinland's taste? Or dislike Marvid's? Or just don't like buying Candian food (it has a funny accent...)
If I am correct there has not been a scandle regarding Hershey's, maybe we should all just eat chocolate. (Yes, yes, it's not Cholov Yisael.)
heres a scandle.
rabbi eisen ripping off the the five towns community.
oust rabbi eisen now. make up bumper stickers. call a board mearing of your local shul. if we can be the school budget we can beat osama eisen.
How many jobs does Rabbi Eisen have?? He must work 40 hours a day to honestly collect all the salaries he is alleged to earn??
If there are so many shul rabbis in the community standing behind the vaad's actions and many of them have publicly or privately suggested to their followers that they purchase their meat elsewhere, why should their position be discounted by tales from aries2756, who still remains anonymous (unlike all of these rabbis) or fumbling responses from GG ownership and management. Or, are all of our rabbis tainted because they're in cahoots with the big bad rabbi eisen?
If aries2756 feel so strongly about his version of everything, let him come out of hiding like all of these rabbis have and let him produce local rabbinic authorities with established credibility that will agree with his position.
Until then, I'm going to have to rely on all of the rabbis that I've heard from (over an anonymous individual who calls himself aries2756 and probably has no established credibility in the community or rabbinic ordination).
"I have sent he following email to Mr. Steve Savitsky at stevesavitsky@ouradio.org, and I was brave enough to include my name and address."
I don't see the name and address copied here
How does a "a letter from Rabbi Paltiel of Chabad of Port Washington dated 2000" prove that the owners are shomer shabbos or frum?
Rabbi Yosef was fired because he could not find anything wrong at GG.Good sources have said quite frankly he felt the store was superior and Super Glatt!!!, only problems he found was with the systems in place and created by Holy Rabbi Eisen.Please contact Rabbi Yosef if you think this is "Loshon Horah" Shabbat Shalom.
It is time to heal and stop this nonsense.
maybe R Eisen could give a kashrus shiur to the 5 towns like he gave to flatbush.
"
Rabbi Yosef was fired because he could not find anything wrong at GG.Good sources have said quite frankly he felt the store was superior and Super Glatt!!!, "
You sound quite partisan. Mr. Bolender, is that you?
has anyone ever heard of Wilk caterers in Nassau County?
aries2756, I know exactly who you are and let me just put it this way. I take everything this woman is saying with a grain of salt, as should OM's readers. You are very clear in showing your bias. You yell and scream about no rush to judgement for GG, and about all the L'H being said here. Then, you rush to judge Rabbi Eisen and call for his ousting, which would leave a family with no means of income without any proof of your own. I always knew you were a loose cannon, but this just proves it.
You should be embarassed at your last post. Its just pathetic how hypocritical you are. And why drag Lori Garber's name into this? "His friend Lori Garber". You are as bad as everyone you are criticising here.
"Well I would like to know who you are if you are calling me a loose cannon, but I have an idea."
I dont think you have an idea. But I have no reason to tell you who I am. Thats why I didnt post under a name that I use elsewhere, like you did. If you didn't want an honest opinion on your credibility then you should have picked an untraceable AKA, like the rest of us including our hostess.
"I spoke to both Rabbi Eisen and to the Bolenders. Who did you speak to? Did you speak to any of the two parties? Did you check anything out for yourself before your judge me?"
Sure. A rushed casual conversation with Rabbio Eisen is enough for YOU to decide to call for his job to be taken away from him. Talk about decisions that have ramafications. And youre the one talking about taking the Bolender's family's parnassah. I will tell you this. The Bolenders side of this is not enough to go on. You are being silly if you try to present is as enough. And I too, spoke to someone very close to Rabbi Eisen, and he told me very clearly that GG was caught doing something he called "inappropriate" as far as Kashrut labeling standards. Was the meat kosher at all times? It seems yes. Was their dishonesty? It seems yes. You tell me that I should be more inclined to trust a storeowner who is Nogeah B'Davar in the bigest possible way over a Rav who has the utmost respect of my very holy Rav. I tell you that you are talking bunk.
Ok, as another fellow five townser, I have an opinion on this mess. There is precious little hard information to come by here. Aries, even your claims are all heresay of an anonymous blogger, all Om's stuff is from Jewish Star, who tel a diferent story every week. We need facts. The Vaad owes it to us in the wake of the Monsey scandal. And no one is giving it to us save OM and the JS. I want info. Now. And with all due respect Aries, you are saying that you are giving facts but we have no idea whther they are really true.
I've been following this comment thread without having any other insight into what has been going on with GG, and I'm left with a couple of questions:
1. Why is there so much distrust between GG and the vaad (apparently much more than any other store under the vaad's supervision)?
2. Why is aries2756 the chief defender of GG (while no one else seems to be defending GG so staunchly or accusing the vaad of so much wrongdoing)?
RABBI EISEN CATEGORICALLY DENIED GIVING BOLENDER LORI GARBERS NUMBER OR SUGESTING HIM. I WOULD FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE GG'S TAKE ON THIS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE TRYING TO HOLD ON IN THE FACE OF HIGH CRITICISM. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
THE LORI GARBER STORY IS JUST TOO STUPID TO BELIEVE. EVEN R EISEN WOULD NOT DO SOMETHING SO DUMB AS SHOW THAT HE IS IN SOMEBODYS POCKET.
YOU GUYS ARE LOSING IT.
HE DID NOT SUGGEST THAT BOLENDER CONTACT GARBER REGARDING THE PURCHASE OF THE STORE. PERHAPS GARBER CALLED BOLENDER REGARDING SOMETHING ELSE, BUT NOT REGARDING THE PURCHASE. YOU ARE TAKING INKBLOTS AND PUTTING A BIG PICTURE INTO THEM. OR ALLOWING BOLENDER TO DO THAT FOR YOU.
USE YOUR OWN BRAIN. R EISEN IS NOT GOOD AT PR. BOLENDER IS.
THINK FOR YOURSELF IF YOU ARE BEING SOLD A BILL OF GOODS FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY PROVED HE IS VERY GOOD AT THAT.
ARIES, YOU SEEM NICE. BUT TOO EASILY SWAYED.
THINK.
THINK.
Assuming there was a meeting of the minds between the vaad and GG that the store would be sold, what would be so bad about rabbi eisen assisting Bolender by putting him in touch with someone who may have expressed interest in buying the store? I don't think anyone has alleged that rabbi eisen has some stake in supersol or would be entitled to a commission.
" Anonymous said...
Assuming there was a meeting of the minds between the vaad and GG that the store would be sold, what would be so bad about rabbi eisen assisting Bolender by putting him in touch with someone who may have expressed interest in buying the store? "
I agree and think that this whole line of thought that there is some vast right wiong conspiracy is out of control. there is one commenter here agitating for Bolender and against Eisen, all guns blazing. I dont understand it but it seems to be a very one-sided argument. so are the arguments that are anti-Bolender. Im sure there are two sides to this.
But. I for one am willing to believe that if the Vaad thinks that GG needed to be sold, there is good reason. I find it hard to believe that the Vaad is doing something sneaky. I definitely find it harder to believe it about a collection of Rabbanim then about a businessman. Just my 2 cents.
FYI - Rabbi Feitman (Kehillas Bais Yehudah Tzvi - Red Shul) stated publicly that he shopped at GG on Friday. So at least on Rov HAS spoken out on the issue.
Also, where did this guy Yossi Eisen come from anyway? What happened to Rabbi Chait? Was he doing something so terrible that warranted his removal/forced retirement in place of another community outsider?
Let's bring back Rabbi Chait, ship YE back to the OU and call it a day.
Aries - athough I agree with you, were you at the forefront when Rabbi Chait "left" the Vaad? Were you a defender of his as well when YE stepped in and - in effect - took away his job and parnassah? Forget the kashrus for a moment - where's the yashrus???
Investigate that, and get back to us, please. If only we had blogs on which to vent a few years ago, this terrible Avlah of forcing someone out of his job in the manner in which it was done would have never happened. Where's the accountability? Let's speak out about that, then the cowardly meatheads can worry about whether or not Bolender is "frum" enough for them.
I dont think that aries is wrong about everything. I just think he is too quick to believe something that someone with a vested interest says.
"FYI - Rabbi Feitman (Kehillas Bais Yehudah Tzvi - Red Shul) stated publicly that he shopped at GG on Friday. So at least on Rov HAS spoken out on the issue."
What exactly did rabbi feitman say, and in what context? Did he say that he bought packaged food there or did he say that he repackaged meats?
Why does that matter? If the store has no credibility in one area, it would follow that it does not have credibility in another.
It was clear from Rabbi Feitman's words that he was not concerned about shopping at Gourmet Glatt - period. Therefore, he did not believe that any of his congregants should refrain from patronizing them and, by way of example, he indicated that he in fact shopped there on Friday.
The fact that he made no distinction whatsoever between various products (i.e., packaged meats vs. other products) can only mean that he was not concerned about any of the allegations from a halachic standpoint.
Unless, of course, you believe that Rabbi Feitman was intentionally misleading his members by only telling them half the story while idly acquiescing to the blind consumption of unreliable meat based on his silence/failure to make a distinction.
Now that, my friend, is a fairly harsh accusation leveled against a well-respected community Rabbi.
Knowing Rabbi Feitman, he's not the type of person who would rationalize a blatant lie on the grounds that it was a glaring omission as distinguished from an affirmative statement.
that certainly doesnt answer the question
exhausted from all of this and will wait for a reply from Mr. Savitsky.
Is Savitsky still head of the Vaad? Isn't he head of the OU a competing Kasruth organization?
It was clear from Rabbi Feitman's words that he was not concerned about shopping at Gourmet Glatt - period.
Whuich should be his answer if he is part of the Vaad. Either Vaad Hashgacha is good or it isn't.
The issue to the laymen is not GG it is what if anything is wrong in the state of the Vaad. Maybe mothing maybe everything-with the circle the wagons approaach and no answers -which are only found in OM and Jewish Star the worst correctly or incorrectly has a reasonable basis for belief.
"FYI - Rabbi Feitman (Kehillas Bais Yehudah Tzvi - Red Shul) stated publicly that he shopped at GG on Friday. So at least on Rov HAS spoken out on the issue."
The Rabbo of my schul spoke against the gossip and blogs criticizing the blog-naturally in a similar circle the wagon approach -just stated one can eat anyplace where the Vaad gives its hechsher.
120,000 dollars for Rabbi Eisen? Wow-With all the controversy surrounding him we could get three Rabbis do do the job better.
120,000 dollars for Rabbi Eisen? Wow-With all the controversy surrounding him we could get three Rabbis do do the job better.
And lets remember there is a claim that Rabbi Eisen ahs at least 2 other jobs besides V5T
why do we allow anyone to "Dictate" or "permit" the shoppping of one store over another.? If a Rabbi says it is the Truth, is it really? is the Rabbi the same one who insists on cash salary? Is someone who defrauds the government by not reporting salaries still "frum" I would love to know how one still considers themselves "frum" while speaking L"H constantly? as a fairly new five towner....i have been disgusted by what i read.
how one still considers themselves "frum" while speaking L"H constantly
So let me understand. A complete Chillul Hashem is going on (there are differing opinions as to waht the chillul hashem is: is it GG's actions or the VAAD's inaction), and to discuss it and posit soultions is LH? Yeah the whole situation is bad for evetone, but Come on. Maybe we should just tape our mouths shut and not breath air, it full of schmutz also.
"Assuming there was a meeting of the minds between the vaad and GG that the store would be sold, what would be so bad about rabbi eisen assisting Bolender by putting him in touch with someone who may have expressed interest in buying the store? I don't think anyone has alleged that rabbi eisen has some stake in supersol or would be entitled to a commission."
I guess that could be a logical concept if R' Eisen was ASKED for assistance if the store was actually for sale. Is it???
Kudos to Rabbi Feitman for seting an example. And maybe we can all learn a lesson. There has been too much l"h thrown onto both camps, enough already!! Maybe its time to just wipe the slate clean and start fresh.
FINALLY, sOMEONE WITH A bRAIN!!!wHAT A great idea....
Go to the OU web site for a lecture that RYE took part in about the job of the VAAD vis a vis the on site mashgiach. His point is that the on site mashigach must have someone in the home offoce to talk to. (Apparently on sukkos he viokated his nown rules). He says the rule is that the VAAD should not always win, but should do "truthful" work. RYE also said that a VAAD can not pay the mashgaich directly because it would cost to much to pay payroll taxes and benefits.
OK, so aside for pointing out the problems we already know, how about offering some productive solutions. Anyone willing to come up with problem solving creative ideas so there are some checks and balances in place and there is a trail that forces accountability?
I'll start:
1. The VAAD run its own payroll. That way the community can also easily see if the local mashgichim are getting a fair amount of hours or not.
2. Each mashgiach should be issued a rubber stamp with a control number on it, which he should use to stamp the bill of laiding on the products for which he accepts delivery, since it is hard to read a person's signature. In this way one can again trace back accountability if a non-kosher product or a questionable product was accepted into the store.
3. There should be standard training and testing for all mashgichim approved for jobs in the comunnity.
4. Each mashgiach should be given a written discription of what his position is and what his job at that particular establishment entails in detail. Nothing must be assumed. That job description should be on file both at the VAAD office and with the store owners so there are no misundertandings.
Does anyone else have some suggestions that can help organize and maintain some stability to avoid future conflict?
Update for all of you following the chicken scandal. Gourmet Glatt has obtained a new Hashgacha, The Vaad of New Mexico City. Now there's a scam!!
read the news release...now there are two supervisions to make sure we are all protected.... if the Vaad mashgiachim did not do their job properly ( since they are the ones who signed in the chickens in the first place) I feel better now there are checks and balances.. wasnt rabbi eisen in charge of Kosher Spot in bklyn? and Nathan's?? I hear from OU sources that Rabbi Kravitz is very highly regarded. why shouldnt there be multiple hashgachas? is the Vaad a monopoly???? in brklyn ( where i just moved from) some stores have several.. the more the better i say.. ( recent transplant from Brooklyn)
To whom it may concern: Please correct the "New Loshon Horah", GG as taken a 2nd reliable supervision by Rabbi Yedhuda Kravitz Schlita, noted Rav and lecturer along with being an 8 year veteran of the OU in charge of 5 industries, including the entire Meat Industry for the OU. Rabbi Kravitz lives in Brooklyn and believed to be neighbors to Rabbi Eisen.So to all the tale bearers, get your facts straight.Happy to see a Rav in Town who knows more about the food industry then a Rav who only knows "bugs". End this nonsense now, time to grow up.
hear, hear another voice of reason. I, too, was hesitant to shop at GG since all this happened...but tomorrow i will be there first thing to shop....!!! I am pleased to hear about Rabbi Kravitz... I am told he is very well regarded by all as an expert in Kashrus....so..I echo the earlier person who said" enough already of this L"H "
Ok, I see we jumped from Tishrei straight to Adar. A freilichin Purim to all.
RYE also said that a VAAD can not pay the mashgaich directly because it would cost to much to pay payroll taxes and benefits.
Baloney-payroll taxes and benefits would be paid by the store then-same total costs
GG as taken a 2nd reliable supervision by Rabbi Yedhuda Kravitz Schlita, noted Rav and lecturer along with being an 8 year veteran of the OU in charge of 5 industries, including the entire Meat Industry for the OU. Rabbi Kravitz lives in Brooklyn and believed to be neighbors to Rabbi Eisen
either the Vaad is reliable or it isn't. There should be a rule that the Vaad will mot give hashgacha to anyone who uses another hashgacha. Otherewise any Rabbi can shakedown the store by saying either add my hashgacha or I'm going to say your olace is not reliable.
Otherewise any Rabbi can shakedown the store by saying either add my hashgacha or I'm going to say your olace is not reliable.
REISMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Baloney-payroll taxes and benefits would be paid by the store then-same total costs"
You were responding to RYE's quoute. Of course its all baloney, but these guys dont want the responsibility, because then he really has to work for his 120K, on top of his shul salary, on top of his alleged bug consulting, on top of his alleged mexican vegtable business, on top of the parsonage etc.
Kudos for Gourmet Glatt seeking a strict Kashruth agency-Kravitz to already enhance the Vaad of the 5 towns thats in the store already.
"either the Vaad is reliable or it isn't. There should be a rule that the Vaad will mot give hashgacha to anyone who uses another hashgacha. Otherewise any Rabbi can shakedown the store by saying either add my hashgacha or I'm going to say your olace is not reliable. "
just the opposite.....pay some attention to the Vaad's position...I am a monopoly and will not allow anyone else in my town..or i will pull the supervision....does that sound fair or even a legal situation?? are they afraid of other more recognized supervision usurping their domain? any lawyers out there see a problem with a "shakedown situation"
"BH" Finally some sense of all this nonsense. Best of luck to GG and may your strenght to stand up to what is wrong be rewarded for your deeds.A fellow Vaad Store Owner...thinking about following your lead, enought is enought....and believe others will follow.. no more un-controlled monopoly.Store Owners Unite!!!!
Anyone want to call/email the FTC and initiate an antitrust violation against the Vaad? Any consumer can cause them to launch a preliminary investigation. I hope they don't turn up tax fraud while they are there...
The FTC wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.
Any store that doesn't want the Vaad, is free to get any other supervision. The Vaad will then tell ppl that it does not certify this store and connot vouch for its Kashrus.
That is not anti-trust. That is not a monoply. Its also not the mafia, unless you can prove Tony Soprano has been doing colletions for Rabbi Eisnen.
"any lawyers out there see a problem with a "shakedown situation"
Any Rabbis worried about the situation? They should be worried more about "Glatt Yosher" rather than "Glatt Kosher".
"The FTC wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole."
Agreed only because of the religious situation
"Any store that doesn't want the Vaad, is free to get any other supervision. The Vaad will then tell ppl that it does not certify this store and connot vouch for its Kashrus."
True-but unstated is that the local mafia has restriant of trade- in general they won't let you bring in food from ANY Hashgacha except for the Vaad.
I hope they don't turn up tax fraud while they are there...
The FTC wouldn't find tax fraud-it is not in their jurisdiction-there marbe other agencies federal and state that probably could find fraud.
Lets be serious many in the Jewish community don't care.
Yo avoid the 5T area-but how many care that when a Yeshiva which was headed by who many claim was the "Gadol Hador" engaged in money Laundering?
Do any care or remember about certain aggressive illegal ways of "bettering" the surrounding area of a schul. Hint Maharal.
Gourmet Glatt is not an innocent victim in all of this. They have numerous violations against them that the public is not aware of. They should have had their hashgacha pulled years ago.
In addition having a Mashigiach on premises that is also a partner to the business is a major conflict of interest.
once again,... GG has three to four mashgachim on a daily basis...this is a fact ...speak to Rabbi Eisen who has placed three of them there himself.. Also there has never been Kashrus violations against GG,,, go back and check with the Vaad... if there3 were any, they would have pulled the hasgacha years before instead of stating in recent articles that there are NO KASHRUS ISSUES... please pay attention and quote facts not more LH.
Numerous violations? A jar of Roland mustard that was approved by Rabbi Chait and then disallowed by Rabbi Eisen. This and other "mishaps" are no reasons to take away a Hasgacha.This whole balagon smells from the top!!!!
True-but unstated is that the local mafia has restriant of trade- in general they won't let you bring in food from ANY Hashgacha except for the Vaad.
Who is the 'local mafia'?
Who are 'they'?
They 'won't let you bring in food' to where?
"Gourmet Glatt is not an innocent victim in all of this. They have numerous violations against them that the public is not aware of. They should have had their hashgacha pulled years ago."
Who are you that you know so much? Where are you getting these so called "facts"? This is just more speculation, more L"H and more being motzi shem rah.
"In addition having a Mashigiach on premises that is also a partner to the business is a major conflict of interest."
I whose book exactly? If this is a conflict of interest, why does the VAAD send their masgichim for training under Rabbi Ashenazy? Ask the VAAD how many mashgichim Rabbi Ashkenazy has already trained. Then speak from facts not from speculation. Why do you enjoy spreading gossip and garbage around the neighborhood? Call the OU and find out what Rabbi Ashkenazy's credential's are.
"They 'won't let you bring in food' to where?"
No Rav from any shul will allow you bring in a caterer or food, into that shul, or shul function that has not been approved by the VAAD.
I read the article in the 5TJT and it was a lot of double talk which didn't say much of anything. One thing is for sure he was very careful not to offend anyone, I guess he didn't want to hire an attorney of his own. But one thing he did concur with, which was spoken about on this blog, get the facts and stop spreading rumors. I'd like to second that.
In addition, I was very impressed with GG's ads and now understand why there was talk on this line about them taking the 2nd Kashrus Supervision. I guess they felt they needed to do so under the circumstances or maybe was advised to do so by their attorney. At any rate, the ad does invite anyone to come in and look around, you also have another Mashgiach that you can ask questions of. And everything is caught on camera, what more can anyone want?
The ad didn't say there was another Mashgiach, just another supervision.
What standards is this new Rav working with?
Has anyone asked?
Will he have his own Mashgiach there all the time, time-to-time, or once every third month - if its not Tuesday?
Why is another agency/Rav better? Was the Vaad really not good enough?
It sounds like GG is just looking for good press. It seems like they didn't like the Vaads supervision and are setting themselves up to go at it alone.
"In whose book exactly? If this is a conflict of interest, why does the VAAD send their masgichim for training under Rabbi Ashenazy? Ask the VAAD how many mashgichim Rabbi Ashkenazy has already trained. Then speak from facts not from speculation. Why do you enjoy spreading gossip and garbage around the neighborhood? Call the OU and find out what Rabbi Ashkenazy's credential's are."
1:57 PM
I am not discrediting this Rabbi's credential but it IS a conflict of interest to be a moshgiach at a store that you have partnership in!
This extra Hashgacha was not to impress you it was to screw over the Vaad. The Vaad gave them a choice, sell or we pull our hechsher, so they don't want to be forced to sell the business (which I don't blame them) so they took another hechsher that they are hoping will be good enough for their customers, just in case the Vaad should pull their hechsher.
What they probably should have done is found another way to work with the Vaad of 5 Towns. Our local Rabbanim are part of the Vaad and will most likely NOT endorse this new hechsher.
"I am not discrediting this Rabbi's credential but it IS a conflict of interest to be a moshgiach at a store that you have partnership in!"
Really, if that is the case, why are the other stores not required to even have a mashgiach temidi, and are only required to have a "yotzei and nichnas" because they rely on the owners to be the mashgiach.
Once again get your facts straight!!
"It sounds like GG is just looking for good press. It seems like they didn't like the Vaads supervision and are setting themselves up to go at it alone."
And it sounds like another assumption on your part, another juicy rumor to start right here on this blog. Maybe they are just tired of the conflict and looking to have a checks and balance system in place on their own if the community didn't offer to put one in place or investigate all the allegations. Sounds to me like they have a smart attorney who placed an eyewitness in the store to take notes.
"What they probably should have done is found another way to work with the Vaad of 5 Towns. Our local Rabbanim are part of the Vaad and will most likely NOT endorse this new hechsher."
Who said they are not working with the VAAD? Again another very dangerous and hurtful rumor that you are starting here on this blog.
"Really, if that is the case, why are the other stores not required to even have a mashgiach temidi, and are only required to have a "yotzei and nichnas" because they rely on the owners to be the mashgiach.
Once again get your facts straight!!" "
Maybe you should get your facts straight, Buddy. First of all some other stores are required by the Vaad to have a Moshgiach Temidi not only that but in cases where they are relying on the owners in the instances of a Yotzei and nichnas the owners are frum, and even some stores with frum oweners have a Mashgiach Temidi. The owners of GG are not frum and obiviously the Vaad feels that they are not trust worthy!
"Who said they are not working with the VAAD? Again another very dangerous and hurtful rumor that you are starting here on this blog."
Yeah I'm sure this is just what the Vaad wanted. Just wait and see what happens after their meeting. Who are you any way GG's lawyer?
I Think The Conservative Rabbis From Our Community Should Be More Involved InThe Vaad
I think we should divert funds from the school budget to the Vaad. After all, it's our tax money and we all have to eat. And somebody has to pay that wealthy man who travels in from Flatbush once every 3 months if it's not Tuesday.
Our local Rabbanim are part of the Vaad and will most likely NOT endorse this new hechsher.
Who cares what political machinations the local Rabbis engage in.
. It seems like they didn't like the Vaads supervision and are setting themselves up to go at it alone.
I currently don't purchase at GG-nut if they would get a Non-Vaad hashgacha I might just start purchasing there to fight back against the Vaad monopoly.
Once again get your facts straight!!" "
Maybe you should get your facts straight, Buddy. First of all some other stores are required by the Vaad to have a Moshgiach Temidi not only that but in cases where they are relying on the owners in the instances of a Yotzei and nichnas the owners are frum, and even some stores with frum oweners have a Mashgiach Temidi. The owners of GG are not frum and obiviously the Vaad feels that they are not trust worthy!
In response with respect to your statement, just because the owner is frum, for example Shevach Meats ,Monsey, New York has a beard down to his knees,of course we can count on his honesty. If GG owners are frum or not is not the issue, the issue is does the Vaad behave and act in concert to create an "Aura" of respect with the store owners who we all count on for our daily needs... by the way did you walk behind the owner of any Vaad stores this past Shabbat?
Stop the nonsense, most of us have come from various backgrounds,please throw the first stone, perhaps it may hit you in in your face.Think before you speak.
In response to owners frum, I daven with him on shabbat and I walk the same direction home with him.
Bagel Island owners are not frum and dont have a Masgiach Temidi and are under the Vaad. I recently asked for the Masgiach and the boss without a kepa said he only comes in for one hour a day to check the scallions etc..I know its only a bagel store but bread is being cooked there-challah taken/yoshen issues/cholov yisroel.They should have a fulltime masgiach for evey establishment . one standard please
In the 5T there are many stores with owners that are not frum (Toddy's and Ruthies come to mind) and many owned by non-Jews(donut anyone???) Are we foolish enough to think that a frum owner is anymore ehrlich than a goy or a mechilah shabbat?? Look at the guy in Monsey? Do we know that the owners of Pepperidge Farms or Entenmans are frum? Yet we continue to "chap" in these products. If the O-U trusts Rabbi Kravitz to supervise it's meat-then I guess I should too. I can't wait to go back to GG-sick of shopping at a "chaza shtetl"!
During this Shabbos, take a moment and reflect on your thoughts a bit.....are you guilty of L"H? can you look at your children and ask them to follow your example? Why is one Rabbi more "frum" than another? Can you personally throw the first stone? our parents should have taught us to be "MENSCHEN" first.
by the way.. Golden Blintz, (also known as old fashioned kitchen) that we all know and love and is OU, is owned by a nice italian old lady. in california. are we so ignorant as to think that everything kosher is owned and made by Jews?? enough already...this is shabbos.. make a promise to HS" not be speak LH"
Speaking of non-frum owners, do you know that the Hielega Empire Poultry was taken over by a venture capital firm two years and the new president Mr. Vaardamn or something like that and his brother-in-law Barry Rosenbaum said at the press conference when they took something this: "I am 48 years and I do not think I ever had kosher chicken in my kitchen, but I expect to learn a lot more about the benefits of kosher eating in the future." Kineret Kosher was also bought out around nine years. An establishment is a kosher as the mashgichim are good not how frum the owner is.
Has anyone asked why three separate machgiachim, placed by Rabbi Eisen personally into GG, have been pulled from GG? It seems once they told Rabbi Eisen that there is nothing to substantiate Rabbi Eisen's claims..they were let go... one of the Rabbis even wrote a letter stating the above.. Rabbi Lerner was summarily fired. Perhaps the Vaad is not aware of Rabbi Eisen's personal vendetta. why is the vaad allowing this one rabbi to threaten a business owner parnusha? As a shopper at GG, I was appalled to learn that Rabbi Eisen told GG that they had to sell within 4 mos. Is this even Legal?? if the Vaad is reading these blogs, perhaps they would consider placing another Rabbi in GG to tell the whole story ( truth). it has become apparent that this one rabbi wants to close down the business for non kashrus issues... what is really going on with our local vaad representation?
Any reason not to assume the owners of GG are behind all the anti-vaad chatter on this blog, given their proclivity for public relations and bolstering their image (see this week's newspapers)
Edys marshmelow ice sold @ Brachs. Pull the Hasgacha mentality
"Any reason not to assume the owners of GG are behind all the anti-vaad chatter on this blog, given their proclivity for public relations and bolstering their image (see this week's newspapers)"
Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. Who knows and who cares? Why shouldn't that particular business have a right to defend themselves against lies or support themselves with truths?
what would be so bad with new owners? Isn't it about time we start paying acceptable prices for our kosher food?
WHy is it that GG prices are so high compared to other places?
Is it b/c they know we will pay it anyway???????
Last I heard...it's a free country-buy where you want. Do you always buy at Payless or do you sometimes shop Jildor?? Jildor seems to be sticking around! It must be their "bargains"!! Let's give this a rest already-stop kvetching-noone is twisting your arm to shop at GG. Maybe you enjoy being a diletant and shopping in nicer surrounding...no insult meant-I do too...it's why I shop at Jildor, AND at GG.
"what would be so bad with new owners? Isn't it about time we start paying acceptable prices for our kosher food?
WHy is it that GG prices are so high compared to other places?
Is it b/c they know we will pay it anyway???????"
2:20 PM
If you feel that GG has prices that are too high...shop elsewhere. this is still a free country. would you like a scenario where your husband's company was told..sell or we will close you down?? put yourself in someone else's shoes before you open your mouth and speak more loshen hora! bracha66
it;s hard enough paying yeshiva bills. the stores don't need to rape us as well!!!!!!!!!!!
GG prices are too high as compared to who SuperSol or Brachs? Oh Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaase. Grow up!
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO PASS THIS ALONG YOU SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT THE VAAD OF THE FIVE TOWNS IS NOT A LICENSED CORPORATION IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK JUST LOOK IT UP YOURSELVES AT THE NYS CORPORATION WEBSITE THIS SHOULD EXPOSE THE SO CALLED RABBI EISEN TO PERSONAL LIABILTY FOR DEFAMATION AMONG OTHE THINGS-----
Anonymous said...
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO PASS THIS ALONG YOU SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT THE VAAD OF THE FIVE TOWNS IS NOT A LICENSED CORPORATION IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK JUST LOOK IT UP YOURSELVES AT THE NYS CORPORATION WEBSITE THIS SHOULD EXPOSE THE SO CALLED RABBI EISEN TO PERSONAL LIABILTY FOR DEFAMATION AMONG OTHE THINGS-----
You are right. The bloggers protecting GG are most likely the non religious owners themselves.. None of the partners are frum and one sibling is married to a goy,, Go figure....My Rabbi told us not to patronize the store. I am going to shop elsewhere...Everyone must do whats right for them....
I think this entire episode is a disgrace. Is the chickem kosher or isn't it. I do not approve of anyone driving someone out of business. I can still buy fruit, vegetables, toilet paper etc. at this store - last I heard I do not need rabbinic supervision for these items.
Personally, I think this is about control. If the owner of Gourmet Glatt has decided to get a different Rabbi to supervise Kashrus- and if his reputation is OK - there should be no problem. I for one am going to check out this new supervision at Gourmet Glatt.
The five Towns Vaad is beginning to remind me of the mob- you will use our Rabbis or else!!!
In a community where so many people have gone to jail for stealing millions of dollars from innocent people - Maybe the Vaad should have been busier teaching business ethics members of our community. I can assure you - the Vaad probably makes sure they get Kosher food in jail.
This is all about money. This is about control.
This is the same Vaad who wanted to make a distinction on restaurants - who was religious and who was not.
Shame on all of you. Get busy teaching again and start with yourselves
this is all highly overated
just become a vegetarian
you ladies seem very bored and boredom.... stirs trouble... im sure that is not what Hashem wants, rather that e should be doing good.. personaly i just want to make an order....
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