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Thursday, October 05, 2006

More on the Five Towns Kosher Chicken "Scandal"

The Jewish Star, the paper that broke last week's story of possible mislabeling of kosher chickens by an area kosher supermarket, has published a follow-up story in this week's edition. They answer many of the questions about the affair that still remained up in the air last week, but some still have not been answered to my satisfaction by the parties involved.
First, some background on what exactly was going on at Gourmet Glatt Emporium:
Two weeks ago a consumer, whom Empire would not identify, purchased two Cornish hens at Gourmet Glatt. Packaged together on one tray under the Empire name, neither bore a plumba, or identifying metal tag, which apparently sparked the customer's concern.

One bird was consumed, the other was returned to Empire. The womanreportedly told an Empire employee who went to her home that when she
inquired at Gourmet Glatt she was told 'that's how the chickens came
from Empire.'

Empire does not package Cornish hens for sale in that manner. Rosenbaum said that an analysis by the company revealed that "the way this particular bird was cut was done by a machine that we do not own."The bird weighed one-and-a-half-pounds, and Empire hasn't sold Cornish hens at that weight in eight months.

Empire notified the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Rockaway, which made a surprise inspection at Gourmet Glatt. Acting on information from Empire, specifically about the weight of available Empire Cornish hens, Rabbi Eisen said he personally discovered more than one mislabeled chicken in the display case. He said there was no way to know if any others had been sold prior to the inspection.
So, as implied but not confirmed in the paper last week, it seems that Gourmet Glatt was misleading customers into purchasing non-Empire products at Empire (i.e., more expensive) prices. Was it deliberate? Last week's article echoes Gourmet Glatt's claim of a "clerical error", this week's article doesn't come out and make a judgement one way or the other. Word I've gotten from a reliable source involved in comunity Kashrut affairs? It is believed the mislabeling was deliberate.
Fine. So the solution, according to the Vaad? To prohibit the relabeling of repackaged products by Gourmet Glatt. And as I've personally witnessed, all chicken in the refrigerator cases in Gourmet Glatt now bears the label "Fresh Chicken", where it used to bear a company brand name. So will Empire chicken still be carried by Gourmet Glatt, and at the higher prices that the product generally demands? Well, yes. Check out this quote:
Rabbi Yosef Eisen of the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Rockaway defended the new labeling guidelines on the grounds that there are limits to what is possible. "We'd have to hire an army to police people's mouths," he said.

...Rabbi Eisen said that labels on meat and poultry at Gourmet Glatt would continue to reflect different prices per pound as charged by different suppliers. "Consumers - when it comes specifically to provisions such as meat and poultry - know the range of what it is going to cost," he said. He believes customers who pick up a significantly more expensive package of chicken will either understand that they are buying Empire, which charge anywhere from 5 to 30 cents more per-pound than competitors, or, Rabbi Eisen believes, they will ask.
Okay, so let me get this straight. Gourmet Glatt, due to being discovered as having been mislabeling chicken - whether due to fraud or a "clerical error" - is no longer allowed to label their repackaged chicken. The Vaad's representative defends the new policy, explaining that the store can't be policed. However, he then goes on to explain that consumers should have no problem determining which chicken is Empire brand, by reading an unwritten code - which is the per/pound pricing of the chicken. So Gourmet Glatt somehow can't be trusted to actually print the Empire name on its packaging, yet they can be trusted to charge Empire prices. Wasn't this, as the Vaad has taken great pains to inform us, all about charging proces that were higher than appropriate and NOT about Kashrut problems? If that's the case, to the extent that the Vaad does not feel it can police Gourmet Glatt to label their chickens properly, then why are we to assume that anything will change regarding the proper pricing of the product?

The whole "solution" to the problem just doesn't seem to add up.

129 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have heard from good sources that the Vaad met last week and they are forcing the sale of the store within 4 months

9:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This Vaad policy is crazy. It allows GG to charge what ever they want. They can put any (hopefully kosher) chicken in a package and charge the highest price inducing the customer to assume that they are buying the Empire (as the price is the highest in the store) when they are only getting "fresh chicken"

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This Vaad policy is crazy. It allows GG to charge what ever they want. They can put any (hopefully kosher) chicken in a package and charge the highest price inducing the customer to assume that they are buying the Empire (as the price is the highest in the store) when they are only getting "fresh chicken"

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As if the kosher consumer is not paying enough now.

It is so nice when our co-religionists steal from us.

If the Kosher community was smart, we would organize a complete boyccott of all meat and poultry products until prices dropped to a reasonable level.

11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rabbi Eisen does not have to "police people's ,mouths" - what he has to do is "police" the stores he is paid exorbitant fees to supervise. Not such an insurmountable task, presumably. GG is no busier than many other kosher butcher shops. As a previous poster aptly noted, if the stores can manage to distinguish between a french roast and a shoulder roast, surely they can distinguish between meet being shipped from Empire as opposed to Aaron's. This is not a question of inability to conform to proper standards, rather a complete apathy towards the consumer. As for me, I will take my standard $400-600 weekly grocery order to a store that can take the time to label my meat correctly.

11:08 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

At least now we're having the right conversation. This is about getting ripped off. And we don't have to stand for it!

11:39 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

There's an old joke about the Jewish guy who receives a telegram from a relative that says: Start worrying. Details Will Follow.

As opposed to the Jewish Star, which presented a considerably conflagatory story about the Gourmet Glatt chicken mislabeling mess with deft and concern for all concerned parties, take a look at how the nincompoops at The Jewish Press broach a potential kashrus issue. I have pants on my kitchen counter smarter than the cretins who comprise the Jewish Press' editorial board :

Kosher Consumer Alert
By: Editorial Board
Wednesday, October 4, 2006

As per our recent reports and editorials, kosher consumers are up in arms over the recent Monsey kashrus scandal. Now we learn of startling new allegations – allegations that come to our attention too close to press time for full investigation but which we feel duty-bound to share with our readers.

Names have not yet been provided to us, only alleged practices. But we have been told that some kosher food merchants have been advised by their kashrus supervisors that they may switch kosher labels on kosher food in order to accommodate customers desiring a particular shechita – as long as the product has some reliable hashgacha.

Individuals who rely on a particular hashgacha are advised not to base their decision exclusively on the label affixed to the meat or poultry. It behooves kosher consumers to be more proactive – to forgo a passive and deferential posture – when it comes to what they eat and feed their families


In other words, "We heard something but have no details. Somehing happened but we cannot verify what. Whatever allegedly happened cannot be confirmed. We're telling to be more careful but cannot tell you why, where, how, or when. Above all, everything we're telling cannot be confirmed. All we can say is start worrying."

Can the Jewish Press be any more ridiculous? The answer may be 'no', but it might be just a matter of time that the company that sells them their newsprint will demand they stop claiming to be a NEWSPAPER as in doing so they besmirch the credibility of their legitimate newsprint customers.

11:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

part of the problem was that GG cut out the plumbas from the chicken which clearly label where they came from. The new packaging leaves the plumbas as the only mark identifying where the chicken came from, thus nobody will be fooled by an outer label. The poliucy of repackaging is to have the plumba visible in the package (go see it for yourself) so that people can buy whatever brand they want knowing full well what they are buying.
The vaad is acting responsibly, and some of the information here is correct while some is not. The vaad is correcting both the potential yoreh deah and evident choshen mishpat problems in a way that will minimize the amount of damage done to the community.

3:42 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

The poliucy of repackaging is to have the plumba visible in the package (go see it for yourself) so that people can buy whatever brand they want knowing full well what they are buying.

That is simply misinformed. When one buys chicken parts, there is rarely, if ever a plumba - it would be difficult to get a package of dark meat chicken with one attached as the plumbas are attched under the wing. So your statement doesn't hold true when you are buying anything but a whole chicken or cornish hen.

If I were to buy a package of chicken bottoms at GG today, all I would be able to surmise is that I am buying "Fresh Chicken". Trust me. I HAVE gone to see for myself.

4:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was used to work for big butcher. Out of a box of 28 or so chickens from Empire or Vineland three or four chickens would come in without plumbas but they would be in a double sealed box from Empire or Vineland. These plumbas are not affixed so well. What is a buthcher to do? Empire does not want to take them back, shipping is expensive but a good 10-15% are sans plumbas. Also once your order quarters or bottoms or tops you cannot keept the plubas on they are usuallyatached to the wing.

4:49 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE CHICKENS IS A SCANDEL MADE UP BY RABBI EISEN TO DESTROY THE CREDIBILITY OF GOURMET GLATT. THROUGH MY THOROUGH INVESTIGATION GOURMET GLATT THE MASGIACH STATES THAT THE "CUSTOMER WHO COMPLAINED TO RABBI EISEN WAS NEVER PRODUCED ,THE PRODUCT NEVER PRODUCED TO THEM AT THE VAAD MEETING -ONLY ALLEGATIONS . EISEN IS ON A WITCHHUNT THAT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. A CONCERNED CUSTOMER

11:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I here the loshon hora spread in shuls this holiday by some. Gourmet Glatt has attentive staff and owners that are visible and hard working. I know there are two Mashgichim temidi fulltime and the world renowned Rabbi Askenazy running the meat operations day to day.Rabbi Eisen the Rav of the 5 twns Vaad does not even know about what a correct triebering(deviening) looks like . Please call for yourself . I feel comfortable buying at gourmet glatt and will continue supporting them because Rabbi Askenazy has the best standards of kashruth. In addition anyone could push the wrong code for empire or vineland on their scales.Has anybody ever dailed the wrong phone number before? I have .

11:36 PM  
Blogger queeniesmom said...

Maybe I'm missng something but the logic escapes me - I'm suppose to trust the kashrut of a store that can't consistantly lable their chickens correctly?

More to the point - you're so busy you can't lable a name correctly but you can press the correct price code, so I'm not paying "empire prices" for some other brand. Or are we just playing the "kosher version" of bait and switch? Consumer fraud anyone?

12:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps someone should check the manufacture ,in this case Empire Poultry.I have purchased many times from GG and other Five Towns Supermarkets Empire SEALED CASES of Empire 3 and 3 1/2 lb chickens and have personally witnessed out of 24-28 birds that six or sometimes more DO NOT have plumbas attached. I love shopping at GG and will continue to.The management is friendly and the staff is well trained and respectful. If the Vaad of the Five Towns, in particular Rabbi Eisen as personal issue with GG, he should resign. I have spoken to many other store owners and the majority feel he is not stable. If you think Rabbi Chait couldn't lead this Vaad with a "Higher Standard" think again...This community made a grave mistake by allowing Rabbi Chait to be thrown away like dirt after some 15 years of service to a "wet behind the ears" bully, Shame to Vaad and our community Rabbi's.

12:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RABBI EISEN WAS IN CHARGE OF KASHRUTH UNDER KEHILLA IN WHICH HE FORMED @ KOSHER SPOT AND THE OTHER RESTAURANT OWNED BY THEM. EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW FOR SIX MONTHS OF TREIF MEAT HE NEVER DISCLOSED IT . HE ONLY THOUGHT OF HIS REPUTATION AT STATE.IN ADDITION THE DEAR RABBI CHAIT FORMER RAV OF 5TWONS WAS DISCRACED AND PUSHED OUT OF HIS JOB BY RABBI EISEN-ASK YOUR RABBI YOURSELF -THEY ALL FEEL TERRIBLE EXCEPT FOR REISMAN-EISENS CROONY.EISEN IS TRYING TO EARN HIS CREDITS AGAIN IN DESTROYING GOURMET GLATT FOR NO REASON-ONE KNOTCH ON HIS BELT TO BRAG ABOUT -WHOSE NEXT? SUPPORT GOURMET GLATT

12:09 AM

12:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now, this is just stupid. For the majority who don't have a horse in this race, why do we need to read all of the UPPERCASE endorsements of Gourmet Glatt, as though they are being written off the cuff by people with no affiliation to or interest in GG.

Gimme a break! The purpose of this forum is for open discussion of the issues - not to hear Eisen-bashing from the management. Can one of the newly arrived pro-GG people explain why Rabbi Eisen purportedly has a vendetta against GG? Because the only reason I would think he might have a vendetta against them is that the management gives him a hard time when he's trying to do his job.

1:25 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

Since, I presume I am a lot older that the average blogger here, let me recall that as a youngster in Queens in the mid-50s, I would usually accompany my late mother to the Jamaica slaughterhouse where we would pick our own chicken (after my Mom inspected it outside in all around), watch as it was schechted, dumped over a barrel for the blood to seep out and then plucked and cleaned and given to us to take home. There, she would place it on the draining board, salt it and by Shabbat, there would be kosher meat on the table. And we weren't, at that time, "an Orthodox observant family" but just pashuteh yidden keeping kosher at home. A few years later, we began to have delivered fresh chickens from Lakewood and I recall being amazed that after all we went through, by Thursday, the door bell would ring at the apartment and there was the deliverer with our meat in a plastic bag with no more mess, stress or whatever.

And now look what is happening.

5:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe the kashruth-labeling is the achrious of two mashgichim of GG .The owners should not to be blamed if the mashgichim do not do their jobs.Replace the mashgichim then.

7:03 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

I think we need some refreshing of the facts here. The mislabeling was done more than once, and wasn't just caught by R Eisen, but by Empire's own inspectors. So to imply that this is all a huge vendetta by R Eisen to close down GG for no reason whatsoever that has to do with Kashrut is silly. Is it possible that the Vaad has been looking for an excuse to close down GG? Perhaps. But I have received enough information from involved parties to believe that it's about stunts like charging higher prices for a lower-priced item than about his personal feelings.

Gourmet Glatt was caught mispreresenting a lower-priced product as a higher-priced one. Now, I am not a Kashrut inspector, so I do not knowwhat the ramifications shold be, I would probably feel comfortable buying there if I received some reassurance that procedures have changed in a significant way. But to the contrary, the new relabeling policy - or lack thereof - just shows me that the Vaad is basically throwing in the towel on trying to police GG's labeling. What can that mean? Goumet Glatt can under no circumstances be trusted to relabel mean properly?

Want to talk about what stinks? Sorry, but it aint the way GG's being treeated. I personally think they're being let off the hook.

7:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

I believe the kashruth-labeling is the achrious of two mashgichim of GG .The owners should not to be blamed if the mashgichim do not do their jobs.Replace the mashgichim then. "

the full time mashgiach is a part owner of GG. there goes that theory

7:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look before you leap...to a poor conclusion. As a customer of Gourmet Glatt for over 10 years I am appalled at the way they have been vilified. I have purchased poultry at many of the Vaad-supervised markets and most are missing tags. Even the cases that are sealed have 5-7 chickens that are missing the plumba. If the chicken in the case was marked "chop meat" would this even be an issue? Personally, I would rather buy my meat and groceries at a store that is cleaner that the hospitals around here! Why doesn't the Vaad address the issue of cleanliness?? Some of the stores that the Vaad supervises are absolutely FILTHY! I don't find the prices on chicken any higher at Gourmet Glatt than at Brachs or Supersol (so dirty I would not ever set foot in there).Maybe its just Empire charging a higher price for the extra feathers you get with every chicken!

9:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is true that the achrious is on the mashgichim. I know for a fact that the two full time mashgichim at Gourmet glatt are employees of the Vaad. One is my cousin. Mistakes happen-everywhere-as long as human beings are the ones oeverseeing. I will continue to shop at Gourmet because my cousin assures me that the kashrus there is impeccable.

9:58 AM  
Anonymous Joe Isuzu said...

"THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE CHICKENS IS A SCANDEL MADE UP BY RABBI EISEN TO DESTROY THE CREDIBILITY OF GOURMET GLATT. THROUGH MY THOROUGH INVESTIGATION GOURMET GLATT THE MASGIACH STATES THAT THE "CUSTOMER WHO COMPLAINED TO RABBI EISEN WAS NEVER PRODUCED ,THE PRODUCT NEVER PRODUCED TO THEM AT THE VAAD MEETING -ONLY ALLEGATIONS . EISEN IS ON A WITCHHUNT THAT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. A CONCERNED CUSTOMER"

there were weapns of mass destruction. they were removed from iraq by soeone who wanted to make the bush adminitration look bad. There was another killer oj simpson was framed. nixon did not order the breakin at the watergate, it was somoene who wanted to make him look bad. the nazis were following orders and the tooth fairy exists.

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to know who pays the masgiach ? Maybe the entire system needs to be changed for all stores in the Five Towns.

10:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the problems (price and Kashrut) could be solved if there was a concerted boycott by the consumers of all "kosher" meat and chicken.

It is time to stop the tyranny of the suppliers, store owners and mashgichim.

Boycott Now.

1:00 PM  
Blogger BigRed said...

Boycott and accomplish what? That is like trying to boycott gasoline in order to show it to Exxon Mobil. It is unlikely that people are going to be able to stop shopping at these stores.

On another note, the behavior of a number of people on this blog (ad others) is absolutely reprehensible. If you are going to be Motzai Sheim Ra or speak loshon hara besmirching the reputations of either GG or a ehrlicha yid like R Eisen, who by the way is the reason that you can even eat out in any restaurant trust me i have heard stories of what really goes on the kitchens on Central Ave, then have the guts to use a screen or a real name. The stab and run tactics are pathetic.

OM thanks for bringing the topic to the forefront, but as usual it unfortunatly gives people a forum to tarnish the reputations of others.

Chag Kasher v sameach

2:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SO WHAT IS THIS

Renewed Activity Seen at Suspected North Korea Test Sites, U.S. Intelligence Says

3:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I THINK THE 5 TOWNS JEWISH TIMES EXPLAINS IT BEST THIS WEEK WHEN THEY SAY THAT KASRUTH AT THE END OF THE DAY IS ABOUT TRUST FIRST AND FOREMOST....GG VIOLATED THAT TRUST....

4:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

they'd be right if this had anytinhg to do with kashrus. It doesn't have anything to do with kashrus.

10:25 PM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

A quote from Rav Herschel Schachter of a Halachik principle. There is a debate of whether or not one can be a kosher witness on a business matter if one is honest in business but does not keep ritual laws-but everyone agrees that one who cheats in business matters can't be a witness even in ritual matters.

11:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i, too, have been a customer of GG for many years. i have never seen a cleaner, more well run business. as a mom of 3 with one on the way, i love the delivery people and the atmosphere. i know some of the Vaad Rabbis and are shocked that they would vilify this store based on Loshon hora.. I, and many of my friends, will ocntinue to patronize GG as long as they continue to provide the service they do. I, also believe there is more to this story. Have any Kashrus Laws really been violated? Have they failed Kosher inspections? Any Answers out there?

9:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon, what does the cleanliness of the store have to do with kashrus? "i know some of the Vaad Rabbis and are shocked that they would vilify this store based on Loshon hora." Did you actually read the articles? This isnt about l"h, its about the store being caught overpricing items red-handed. you may like the store, and their delivery people. but how can you make that the basis for ignoring the very real loss of neemanus here?

the more i hear of this story the less i like. i agree there is more to it. and i dont think it shines a positive light on GG.

also, when you ask about kosher violations in the past, the vaad had previously found GG to be storing hometz in an inpproporiate way over last pesach.

9:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In another string, someone wrote: I spoke to the mashgiach @ gg and he told me it was not a mistake of taking more money for one chicken company over another. He even went so far as to say that sometimes they give more expensive substitutes when they run out of stock of a advertised special.To me that good business ethics.

WHOOO, this con't be happening, Rabbi Eisen clearly said that the way to determine the manufacturer was by the per pound price ["he then goes on to explain that consumers should have no problem determining which chicken is Empire brand, by reading an unwritten code - which is the per/pound pricing of the chicken"]

I have a simple solution, GG can no longer sell chicken. Maybe water too, how about soad and ketchup. This is becoming crazy.

9:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why is the story changing now from Kashrus adherence to "price - gouging" If the prices are so out of line with the other stores, GG would have to lower prices to compete.. Is the Vaad trying to get GG on other issues since the one of Kashrus has been negated? Lets look into motives here... Why are we allowing someone to tell us where to shop...if Kashrus is not the issue?

10:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, you say price gouging that wasnt quite the story. they went through the trouble of mislabeling non-empire chicken as empire chicken to collect empires higher prices. you say this has no relevance to kashrus adherence. i say that a store owner who cant be trusted to label products in an honest way has some serious trust issues.

10:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There have been kashrus problems there in the past (not to the level of monsey but infractions nontheless) such as the aforementioned incident where they kept stuff without passover certification over pesach to pickle their meats, and the store telling sephardic Jews that the meat is Beis Yosef when it is not...
The bottom line is that the vaad is taking care of whatever issues there are so that people can continue to shop in the stores that they feel most comfortable in. Whatever restrictions are being placed on the owner (losing his keys, selling within a few months) should not have a major impact on the kosher consumer.

11:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wanted to do some investigation on my own. I went to see the masgiach @ GG who has been incharge for many years.He showed me the ingredients for the pesach pickling which came in small bags and labeled clearly kosher for passover by continental seasoning .I am confused were are this misinformation coming from.

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...

I wanted to do some investigation on my own. I went to see the masgiach @ GG who has been incharge for many years.He showed me the ingredients for the pesach pickling which came in small bags and labeled clearly kosher for passover by continental seasoning .I am confused were are this misinformation coming from. "

I wanted to see if my son did well on his Gemara test. He showed me his gemara test from last year, clearly marked with a 100%. I figured that was enough to assume that he did well on this year's test.

How to you people actually post this tripe? Don't you realize you come off as either idiots or GG's owners?

11:50 AM  
Anonymous orthomom's houseplants said...

EARTH TO EVERY IDIOT WHO SELECTIVELY REFUSES TO READ THE PARTS OF THE POST THAT SAY THIS IS NOT A KASHRUS ISSUE:

it is not a kashrus issue. Reading is fundamental. Get in the practice of reading before commenting. It makes everyone's visit to Orthomom that much more pleasant.

Thank you.

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it is not a kashrus issue. Reading is fundamental. Get in the practice of reading before commenting. It makes everyone's visit to Orthomom that much more pleasant.

but
a store owner who cant be trusted to label products in an honest way has some serious trust issues.


RECONCILE PLEASE

1:15 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"a store owner who cant be trusted to label products in an honest way has some serious trust issues. "

Well, yes. Absoutely yes. Noetheless, to discuss this matter in the context of a kashris issue is to unecessarily and irresponsibly ratchet up the hysteria, and based on some of the comments here, for clearly suspicious reasons.

In discussing any issue, it is essential...ESSENTIAL....to first clearly and definitively idetify what the issue is before people can start taking pot shot assumptions as for solutions.

There is too mu ch ignornt speculation and issue churning for intelligent discourse to occur here, or anywhere. The matter needs to be framed accurately before anyone here can move forward.

And to do that, it must clearly be noted that the entire issue of over the ethics of labeling....and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH KASHRUS!

3:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it must clearly be noted that the entire issue of over the ethics of labeling....and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH KASHRUS!


So then this is a non-religious consumer affiaris issue. Why is Eisen and Resiman involved (sorry Rabbi Eisen and Rabbi Reisman)

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reason they are involved, is because if the owner cannot be trusted in businees, he cannot be trusted in kashrus, either. And don't bring me RABBI ASHKENAZI - he is a partner in GG, so therefore HE CANNOT BE TRUSTED EITHER. When GG asked the Vaad to give keys to a certain employee, they agreed, with the condition that a letter certifying that the employee was Shomer Shabbos was received from his rabbi. The letter from the Rabbi stated that "testimony was given that XXX is a Shomer Shabbos". When the rabbi was asked who gave the testimony, he said "RABBI ASHKENAZI" In Halacha, that is called "Nogayah B'Dovor"
TALK ABOUT THE FOX GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE!!
If GG could re-package ANY kind of chicken without telling their customers, (maybe I am stupid and want only cheaper chicken, don't do me favors and give me expensive chicken),then there is a problem. Whether they did any harm or sinned is irrelevant, the bottom line is THEY MISLEAD.
AND THAT IS CHEATING.
ONCE A CHEAT, ALWAYS A CHEAT.

5:00 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

Well, rabbi reisman is involved because he smells controversy and notoriety and cannot resist sticking his nose into the fray.

Rabbi Eisen is involved because he is the head of the vaad and has the responsibility and authority to investigate any issue pertaining to a store the vaad supervises to ascertain there is no question about kashrus.

Are you satisfied with that answer or will your moronic, transparent agenda result in yet more specious, loaded questions?

5:52 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"Anonymous said...
The reason they are involved.......AND THAT IS CHEATING.
ONCE A CHEAT, ALWAYS A CHEAT."

...and while we're on the subject of moronic, transparent agendas...

5:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I purchased Tuv Taam blintzes advertised @ Brachs during the nine days for 2.99 pkg.When I got home I realized they were pesachdik. I called the management and asked if they had any others that were chometzdik, they replied "sorry that's all we have. In response to the above comment "they misled and that is cheating.Once a cheat always a cheat. Sure Brachs advertisement was misleading but I wont go to far and call them cheaters-more like savvy business people.

5:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Rabbi Askenazy is not to be trusted because he is an owner then why do you trust Yankie Brack or Mr. Garber they are also owners, indeed aren't all the stores owned by their owners? Is Wok Tov no good because there is an owner. That is so stupid. Do you really think GG or Supersol go around mislabling items that have plumbas. Maybe they made a mistake, so did Tylenol and other companies they are not all thieves. Obviously you like ot believe in conspiracies. Do you know how much chickens are sold each week? Thousands , so what is they make a 1% mistake. Take it back every merchant including GG or Brachs will give you an exchange. Grow up?

6:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you satisfied with that answer or will your moronic, transparent agenda result in yet more specious, loaded questions?

My agenda, keep the mafia and talaban far away. If this is an Consumer Affairs Issue then Rabbi Eisen has no business (after he made such a determination). Of course there are issues of business ethics that are nogah to kashrut so maybe there is a VAAD isue, but this mafia/talaban mantality (ie comeing in and setting 1 standard for GG and another for Brachs etc) is what I am against. A vaad should have 1 standard, otherwise it is a Mafia.

7:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

kolakavod well said!!!

8:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enough is enough. Time to stop all this talk and focus on this joyous week!!, Enjoy life, I enjoy GG and was in there today, again I believe the best managed Supermarket in town,if you lose GG you can guarantee yourself higher prices and less selection.Time to move on, if it's not Kashruth related let it be handled by the state if necessary.

9:23 PM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

"if it's not Kashruth related let it be handled by the state if necessary-"

So halacha is limited to kashrut-a perversion of halacha. Here again the writer doesn't believe it anyway-I assume the Vaad would not give a hechsher to a strip club.
So business ethics are irrelevant-I hope not.

"A vaad should have 1 standard, otherwise it is a Mafia. "

I agree with the statement-that does not mean I am stating that the Vaad holds different businesses to a different standards-but if it does the charge is an accurate one.

"Nogayah B'Dovor"
Avery important concept-which I have a feeling gets ignored. For example do Rabbonim on the Vaad recuse themselves and not give opinions on hashgachot involvimg members of their schuls-etc.
I don't know -I am not accusing anyone of anything I don't really know the parties in question-to the best of my knowledge I've never met or would I recognize Rabbi Eisen in the street-so my comments are based on hypothetical procedural questions.

10:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a few of these comments are too painfully misinformed to ignore.

"Still Wonderin' said...

Well, rabbi reisman is involved because he smells controversy and notoriety and cannot resist sticking his nose into the fray."

Rabbi reisman is not "involved" in any way I can see, aside from speaking to his own kehilla regarding his thougghts on GG. but nice potshot, still wondering. guess you couldnt pass up an opprtunity.

"Once a cheat always a cheat. Sure Brachs advertisement was misleading but I wont go to far and call them cheaters-more like savvy business people."

Just to confirm, are you comparing this advertising (whoch seems perfectly legit to me) to a store deliberately mislabeling lower priced chickens to get a higher price? because if you are, thats a funny comparison.

11:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I assume the Vaad would not give a hechsher to a strip club.
So business ethics are irrelevant-I hope not.

Having determined that the possible Kashrut issue was not kashrut related doesa not = a religous orginization condoning porn. What if a VAAD store sold food to a strip club, would the VADD have any more jurisdiction over that then a consumer affairs issue ?? I think not. The VAAD should be concerned with what food come in and out. Making sure that the store does not sell improper food. End of story. If the store wants to sully its reputation by selling cheap items as more expensive ones, or catering a strip club, that is for them to decide, and for the store to suffer the consequences in the pocket book. But the VAAD is a business too, what would the VAAD do to a store that was 100% compliant, but could not pay the vig, i mean the monthly fee to the VAAD?? SHUT THEM DOWN.

7:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all stop the bickering shop Brachs,Supersol,Gourmet Glatt for they are under the Vaad of the 5towns

9:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And all subject to the same shakedown

11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all stop the bickering shop Brachs,Supersol,Gourmet Glatt for they are under the Vaad of the 5towns

I have every intention of shopping at the stop with the best quality for the best price, and in fact shop around at all 3 for the best price/quality, irrespective of what Rabbi Reisman says, irrespdective of the fact that a prominant MO Rabbi is alleged to have privately said the same thing as RR, and irrespective of the fact that the VAAD overstepped here. The real story is the potential for retail fraud, and there are "HIGHER" authorities then the VAAD to deal with that.

12:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i do believe that rabbi eisen is making this all up. i work for a local caterer under his hashgocha. after the monsey incident, he specifically told me that he will be looking for someone to drag down, so that he may look good before all the rabbonim.

he is no good.

ask him what happned under his watch in flatbush?? the answer, non kosher food.

get rid of rabbi eisen.

get the old vaa of 5 towns back.

let the far rockaway people go do their own thing. dont bring down the five towns.

everybody should please ask rabbi eisen and rabbi reisman to move back to brooklyn. stop treiffing up our beuitiful community.

if our local shul rabbis had any balls, the would stop paying the vaad tax.we should all stop paying our vaad dues to our shuls now.

grow up and grow a pair of balls.

there a famous doctor from yilc, a past president of that shul, he was right all along. go ask him.

down with the vaad of the five towns and rockaway.

and yes to our new vaad:
the vaad of the 5 towns.

4:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if our local shul rabbis had any balls, the would stop paying the vaad tax.we should all stop paying our vaad dues to our shuls now.

grow up and grow a pair of balls.

there a famous doctor from yilc, a past president of that shul, he was right all along. go ask him."

I don't know who "a famous doctor from yilc, a past president of that shul," is but does he/she ask the Rav of yilc =assuming he supports the Vaad why he does?


"we should all stop paying our vaad dues to our shuls now."

Not attacking the Vaad but why does a Vaad that has many hechsherim in a close vicinity require a subsidy why doesn't it subsidize the eruvim, mikvaot etc. I don't know-someone explain

5:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

are from far rockaway??

the vaad right know wants to stipulate how the workers dress behind the counters. they also want to determine how we dress as consumers. sound familiar?

thats what the taliban did in afghanistan.

the vaad=terrorist orginization.

weshould put a border up along 878

kepp the far rockawaypeople and the reismans and eisens on the queens side. keep nassau clean and kosher. vote for a new and pure
vaad of the 5 towns.

5:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

they also want to determine how we dress as consumers

Explian please

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is ridiculous. The last few comments have been trying desparately to turn the topic away from the clear problem at hand. The problem is that GG was CHEATING THEIR CUSTOMERS. And to all those who say it isn;'t a Vaad issue but a consumer affairs issue, WRONG. This is all about Kashrut. I know people who buy only Bais Yosef Shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who buy only KAJ shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who refuse to buy Chabad shechita. They have been wronged by GG. This has as much to do with Kashrut as the time that GG used Chometz on Pesacdh.

The comments are so clearly aimed at turning the debate away from GG's trangressions by trying to turmn the heat up on the Vaad and anyone else that it is painfully clear that they are being written by people extremely partisan to GG.

Let's not be stupid here. We are not schoolchildren who can willfully suspend our disbelief. Orthomom may not think this is a scandal. But i think she is wrong.

GG didn't just price gouge. they lied to their customers about vital kashrut information.

peeople. Don't act like lemmings here.

7:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know people who buy only Bais Yosef Shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who buy only KAJ shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who refuse to buy Chabad shechita. They have been wronged by GG. This has as much to do with Kashrut as the time that GG used Chometz on Pesacdh.


AND SHEIKH EISEN MADE IT BETTER?? NOW WE DONT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT CHICKEN WE ARE BUYING.

1 VAAD, 1 STANDARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
AND SHEIKH EISEN MADE IT BETTER?? NOW WE DONT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT CHICKEN WE ARE BUYING."

How stupid. Of course it's not good. But at least I'm not being lied to. This is a really dumb discussion. You are sayimng that not labeling is as bad as lying on the labels? You are either dumb, gullible, or one of GG's owners if you expect that argument to resonate.

8:05 AM  
Anonymous 5 townser said...

Can you guys please pick fake names? all of the anons are getting confusing.

8:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

YOU cant build a business upon lies only upon upon good business practices. As a local steady customer in gg I see a busy store doing all things right.These accusations just dont seem to add up.

8:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a person privee to information from the Vaad there was no chometz found on pesach @GG it was a different store!

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All of these pro GG comments look pretty suspect. I can't imagine there are customers loyal enough to sound like advertisments for GG.

And for those who claim to be "privee" to the vaad info, you are wrong. Gg uncovered their chometz on the last day of chol hamoed last year.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

9:29 AM  
Blogger kosher consumer said...

Please the anon above come forward and release your name since you have many tales to tell!

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
AND SHEIKH EISEN MADE IT BETTER?? NOW WE DONT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT CHICKEN WE ARE BUYING."

How stupid. Of course it's not good. But at least I'm not being lied to. This is a really dumb discussion. You are sayimng that not labeling is as bad as lying on the labels? You are either dumb, gullible, or one of GG's owners if you expect that argument to resonate.


I WANT 1 STANDARD. IT IS NOT DUMB OR STUPID TO WANT TO KNOW WHAT I AM BUYING AT ALL STORES. FOR ALI EISEN TO SAY LOOK AT THE PRICE TO DETERMINE THE MANUFACTURER IS A COP OUT. THEY SHOULD SAY WHOSE CHICKEN THEY ARE AND IF GG IS SO STUPID AS TO MISLABEL IT AGAIN THE FEET WILL DO THE WALKING. WHAT IS DUMB AND GULIABLE ARE THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE TALIBAN WITHOUT THINKING.

11:08 AM  
Anonymous Sammy said...

We need a revolt against the corrupt local kashuras agency. What if they lift the hash-ga-cha and people still buy there. As far as branding is concerned,if the package says Perdue, Ballpark or Empire, I want the product to match the lable. Could you imagine Kleins Ice Creme in a Haggan Daz container?

3:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

revolt now.

get rid of eisen and reisman.

they are destroying our good community.

lets all chip in and buy them house in flatbush. thats were they belong.

written by proud 5 towns resident.

5:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is nuts. To the anonymous commenter calling R Eisen and R Reisman the taliban. Do you mean to say that theyn are TOO strict? And that's supposed to make me upset and think they are ruining our community? After what just happened in Monsey? Does your comment about buying them a house in Flatbush mean that they are to strict for you?

Well, good. People like you can go eat at the 2nd avenue deli. Enjoy your kosher-style food. I'm just happy to have the kahrut taliban in charge if it means the standards will stay strict.

5:53 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

OK, I am so sad and discouraged by all the loshon horah and rechilus going on right now in the neighborhood and right here on this blog sight.

1. GG is not trying to rip anyone off. Their prices are comparible to the other stores in the neighborhood and if you don't like their prices or policies "GROW UP" and be accountable for your own actions. You have a choice to go to any store you choose, even if it means shopping in Brooklyn or Queens.

2. The Vaad is responsible for the Kashrus in GG. There is supposed to be 2 mashgichim from the Vaad at the store at all times, along with the mashgichim that the store already employs. The store pays the salary for these mashgichim only because the Vaad does not want to deal with the "hassle" of payroll and taxes. This is wrong and should be corrected immediately. Mashgichim that are hired by the Vaad, or placed by the Vaad should be on their payroll so there can be absolutely no suspicions or questions as to who the Mashgiach is loyal to.

3. If you shop in any store it is "YOUR" responsibility as a frum jew to check out the Kashrus of that store. Today I went into GG and asked to meet the 2 "Vaad" mashgichim. Only one was there because the other left, I believe to check on another store. That was totally inappropriate since his job was to watch GG and to remain their the entire time they were open. In addition, GG is paying him. The Vaad has no right to rely on other mashgichim in GG and/or forge complaints or inuendos upon them especially when they are not doing their job. The mashgiach called for back up but the Vaad Office was closed and all he could do was leave messages on voice mail.

4. Whichever "anonymous" didn't have the courage to come straight out and make the accusation about GG putting out chometz on pesach, should come out from behind his mask of anonimity and get his facts straight. It was not chometz and they didn't put it out. It was an incident that happened way in the past, where a worker uncovered part of a shelf before Yom Tov was over and was fired for it. So please stop spreading Loshon Horah, you are hurting a lot of people with vicious lies and gossip.

5. In addition, you should know that I made it my business to walk into the office and introduce myself. I sat for hours with the owners of GG and they provided me with proof that #1 they are Shomer Shabbos, #2 they have documentation to prove the falsehood on all these ridiculous accusations and that they have documented every incident and issue that has arisen for years.

6. In addition, any Rav from any kehillah or any Kashrus organization is welcome to go into GG, and inspect it for themselves. They will be happy to show them the proof or backup to any questions they might have,or any video surveilance of the store to check on their practices; they are the only ones who have set up video feedback to the Vaad's office. They should then be comfortable enough to speak to their own Kehillas and put an end to this Gossip and railroading of innocent people who's parents established this store in this community since the 1980's.

7. If you want a certain brand of chicken, why don't you use the walk-up window and place an order. This way you will get exactly what you want. I don't have a problem with any brand and as long as I know that the Mashgiach checked the chickens when they came in, I don't care if it is vineland or empire. . If I did I would ask them to give me only a certain brand, if they couldn't do it or guarantee that for me they would tell me so. That way I wouldn't feel cheated and I would again have the choice of going elsewhere to get my chickens. We can't keep blaming someone else for something we can easily do. By mashgiach I mean Rabbi Ashkenazy who I truly trust, although I did meet Rabbi Pinchus today and he seems very trustworthy as well.

Personally I am not interested in paying even more because they have to take extra steps in the back in separating and relabeling. Today, I got a lesson in chicken and I was informed that not every chicken comes with a plumba. I was very shocked to hear this, but if the Vaad Mashgiach knows this and allows that chicken in, then there it is, that chicken gets into the refrigerator case.

Furthermore, I would like to see the same rules that apply to this establishment put into practice in every establishment. I take my kashrus very seriously. As Rabbi Eisen said, "mistakes do happen people are only human". However, this has nothing to do with mistakes, this has to do with loshon horah and now railroading this family out of business. Please take note: GG is not for sale. Furthermore, if they have to have a mashgiach temidi on the premises at all times, the same should go for every other supermarket and restaurant under the Vaad's supervision. Kashrus is Kashrus, what applies in one kitchen applies to the other. If strict measures are needed here, they are needed all over because mistakes can happen all over, why wait for them to happen?

If the rules do not apply to all establishments then we have to look at who is making the rules and why. No one has the right to take the keys away from an establishment's owner. That is pure and simple humiliating tactics. The fact that they would comply with this ruling just goes to show how cooperative this family has been and is willing to be, but are we the consumers and members of this community willing to stand by and have this happen to one of our favorite stores?

This is ridiculous. The kashrus of this store is maintained and is the sole responsibility of the Vaad of the 5 Towns as is any establishment under their supervision. So lets put the responsibility of Kashrus back into the right ownership, and let us leave the running of an establishment and the pricing of items in the hands of the owners. Whether you as a consumer chooses to shop their or not is your individual choice and your absolute obligation to be a smart shopper. You should also have enough Yiddish training to investigate and listen to two sides of a story before judging which is ot our place to do anyway. But we must end this vicious loshon horah and take the opportunity to go speak to the Bolender family yourselves.

One more thing, when I moved to this community 12 years ago from Brooklyn, I was very pleased but surprised to see the achdus and support everyone had for each other. Rabbonim announced what was happening in other shuls, they went to visit other Rabbonim, etc. This was an amazing example of true Ahavas Yisroel, a beautiful way in which to raise our children. If outsiders who come here for jobs cannot maintain that level of harmony and continuity in this community then we really must consider what we are approving here. Look at what has happened to us? We have become divisive and evil in our loshon horah and rechilus. People were talking about this in shul on Yom Kippur. We are still in the month of Tishrei waiting to celebrate Simchat Torah on one hand and spreading evil through our words and actions in the other. What is happening in this community and who brought this here? There are plenty of qualified rabbonim in this neighborhood who need jobs. I am not going to make a personal attack on the head of the Vaad as some others did but I am going to acknowledge that there should be some sort of checks and balances that oversees the VAAD. I believe that the head of such an important agency in our community that is paid for and supported by the consumers and businesses of this community should be elected or at least appointed by the Rabbonim of this community after their credentials, their charachter references and personal life is reviewed and researched. The person that holds that position should be of the highest regard and standards and above question to his charachter and judgment. In adition that position should be held for a specific term and then re-elected according to the merits of the job he is doing. That way there can be no issue of self-importance or self-empowerment.

Just My Humle Opinion,
SB

5:54 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

"And for those who claim to be "privee" to the vaad info, you are wrong. Gg uncovered their chometz on the last day of chol hamoed last year.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it. "

Who are you, and what info are you privy to? You are spreading lies and falsehoods. WE AR ON TO YOU AND ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING YOUR LIES or MISINFORMATION, so put that in your pipe and we don't care what you do with it!!!

6:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you mean to say that theyn are TOO strict?

No i mean that they are not consistant with their chumreas. 1 store has 1 standard, another a different standard.
MY MANTRA IS ---

1 VAAD. 1 STANDARD.

BTW THe flatbush comment was a different blogger. I believe Rabbi Eisen already lives in Faltbush.

6:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole story is a mess. Why can't we get some facts?

6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole story is a mess. Why can't we get some facts?

EXACTLY. LET THE TALIBAN COME CLEAN. NOTHING IS BETTER THEN LITTLE SUNLIGHT TO CLEAN UP A MESS.

6:45 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:24 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

Here is another idea, why don't we form a "Consumer Fact Finding Commission" and interview the shopkeepers and document their issues with the VAAD. Then ask for inspectors from the "OU" or "KAF K" to come down and inspect GG and a few random other establishments and get their reports. That would be a good check to see if Rabbi Eisen is on the up and up or not. In addition, the reports can be included in our documentation and sent to each Shul in the community, and even published in the Five Towns Paper. It can also be made available to consumers by request.

Qualified individuals such as attorneys, journalists, accountants, Rabbonim with qualified smicha credentials who are not involved with the current VAAD, and other professionals who are neither connected to any food establishments in the neighborhood or to any Rav that is involved with the VAAD could join.

This could actually be the begining of the "Checks and Balances" system we have been talking about. We don't need one "RAV" running, dividng or destroying this community, and we don't need a power hungry, unreliable, self-centered individual, IF THAT BE THE CASE, running our Kashrus in the community. But lets please stop throwing accusations at everyone involved and do something constructive and productive instead of destructive and halachically incorrect.

7:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the VAAD a charity? I could not find a 990??

11:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

aries2756 said ...

"No one has the right to take the keys away from an establishment's owner. That is pure and simple humiliating tactics. The fact that they would comply with this ruling just goes to show how cooperative this family has been and is willing to be, but are we the consumers and members of this community willing to stand by and have this happen to one of our favorite stores?

You made some good points initially and even came across as somewhat level headed and objective - that is - until I got to the above quoted statement.

That statement is actually dumber that all of the previous ones. Why should anyone be appalled that the Vaad would take away the keys from an establishment's owner? Would you like us to believe this is an ego trip for the vaad or it's leadership. You're more than entitled to defend the GG owners, but you cross the line when you try to make an objective argument and then round it off with such biased stupidity.

We are living in the shadow of the most egregious violation of kashrus standards and consumer confidence in kashrus oversight that anyone can remember. It was perpetrated by an individual who was held in the highest regard by everyone in his community. And your response to this is an attempt to rally people in support of "one of our favorite stores"?!

Who cares if GG is clean or well-run or even if it's "one of our favorite stores"? SO WAS SHEVACH MEATS! And the character of its proprietor was almost certainly perceived to be loftier than that of the GG owners. Obviously, there is no comparison between the owners of the two stores or the reliability of the two stores, but the point is - Desperate times call for desperate measures. Most people would rather see the vaad clamp down wherever they see fit than be left worrying about an "incident" in our area.

And as much as you'd like us to believe that the Vaad is just out to get GG for no good reason, most of us don't have any horse in this race, don't have an agenda here and are not conspiracy theorists, so you'll have to come up with some credible evidence that Vaad is out of line here, if you want anyone to be convinced. Otherwise, they have a long-standing reputation of maintaing pretty high standards that we've all grown to depend on.

And if it's true that the Vaad has demanded that GG be sold within a given period of time, then you have even more explaining to do, because that certainly isn't a position the vaad would take without grave concerns.

12:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the earlier comment about the proposed forced sale of GG is a slap in the face to all jews who came to america looking for the freedom to worship and work as they please... Who is the Vaad to order the sale of a business that has operated in this country for several decades? Does the name Hitler ring a bell for anyone? remember nazi germany when hitler forced the closing of jewish businesses? Both my parents are Holocaust survivors who live in Brooklyn.. They cannot believe the audacity of the Vaad if this is, in fact, what they stated they wanted to do. in America, we all have to right to shop and worship where and how we please. since when did the Vaad Take over our lives and the livelihood of others.. Wake Up 5 towns.

2:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

first to the anon who said go eat at the 2nd ave deli. get your facts straigh, they closed down due to rent hikes. there food was kosher, but they operated on shabbos, which brings about other issues in halacha.
about the vaad, they are a for-profit organization. stop giving them money.

the vaad acts totaly irresponsibly: some stores have mashgiachs and some dont. look into it, i did. its very unfare.

close the vaad down. stop having all these little no name hashgachas open up so we the hard working men and women of the five towns (not far rockaway) can support there families in far rockaway or brooklyn. there kids could rub the bench on our money, while they tell us what to do. the dont evan thank us.

get rid of the taliband
oasam=reisman
hussein=eisen

bring in the ou, ok or kof-k. bring in a stabke true hashgacha that we can all trust.

a proud 5 towns resident.

4:02 AM  
Blogger kosher consumer said...

To solve this all ask Rabbi Eisen for the chicken he alledges to have been mislabeled- with weight, receipt and all!

7:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
Anonymous said...

the earlier comment about the proposed forced sale of GG is a slap in the face to all jews who came to america looking for the freedom to worship and work as they please... Who is the Vaad to order the sale of a business that has operated in this country for several decades? Does the name Hitler ring a bell for anyone? remember nazi germany when hitler forced the closing of jewish businesses? Both my parents are Holocaust survivors who live in Brooklyn.. They cannot believe the audacity of the Vaad if this is, in fact, what they stated they wanted to do. in America, we all have to right to shop and worship where and how we please. since when did the Vaad Take over our lives and the livelihood of others.. Wake Up 5 towns. "

of all the stupid comments here (and there have been tons) this is hands down the stupidest. i will explain slowly. if GG were to want to give up their hasgacha from the vaad, the vadd would have no control over forcing GG to sell their store. the vaad isnt forcing their high standards on GG, unless GG wants their supervision. if GG would want to give up the vaads hasgacha and get it from soemone else, they are welcome to, and the vaad wouldnt give a fig whether they sold their store or not. but being under the vaad hasgacha just makes good business sense for them.

you can tell your parents that they can calm down. they are getting the story all wrong from their ignorant child.

7:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

perhaps the most recent "anonymous" should actually attend college or grad school and learn how to write english properly. once again this forum attracts idiots who have no idea of what is really going on with the Vaad. Please keep comments in this forum from becoming attacks!

10:55 AM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:18 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

Annonymous said "And as much as you'd like us to believe that the Vaad is just out to get GG for no good reason, most of us don't have any horse in this race, don't have an agenda here and are not conspiracy theorists, so you'll have to come up with some credible evidence that Vaad is out of line here, if you want anyone to be convinced. Otherwise, they have a long-standing reputation of maintaing pretty high standards that we've all grown to depend on.

And if it's true that the Vaad has demanded that GG be sold within a given period of time, then you have even more explaining to do, because that certainly isn't a position the vaad would take without grave concerns."

Firstly, let's keep the standards of propriety and common courtesy on this blog. I am far from "dumb" so keep your personal observations on my character which you do not know to yourself. Next, let us again remember who controls the kashrus in the store and that is the VAAD. If they would ask for the keys to the kitchen, refrigerator and freezer that would be one thing, but the keys to the entire store is ridiculous and out of line. Especially because they do not make themselves available and do not answer calls to this particular establishment in a reasonable period of time. All of which is documented. I am not going to discuss with you any inside information about the ins and outs of the pressure being put on GG to sell the store. Let me just tell you that everything that Rabbi Eisen has put GG through is well documented and GG has kept meticulous records on every meeting and every issue that was brought to their attention, every meeting that they were dragged into and every proof that they provided which made the VAAD accountable for the error, or which proved positive that there was no legitimate reason for the meeting to have been called in the first place.

Again, I would suggest that there be an independent investigation conducted to see if any other establishment with similar situations have been dragged into "court" or emergency meetings the way this establishment has been, or if the same stringent conditions were placed on othe establishments. When I moved to this neighborhood, I was immediately told about a personal issue regarding one of the owners of Supersol that turned me off completely and keeps me from buying there. That particular incident makes me wonder about his commitment and loyalty and it boggles my mind why they don't pick on that store the way they pick on GG. In addition, I remember one year erev Pesach when another new establishment hadn't finished covering the chometz isles and people were packing their wagons with chometz ketchup and mustard. I didn't hear the VAAD making a stink about that establishment, or you bringing that to the attention of the people on this line. So why are you picking on GG, are you connected to the VAAD in some way Mr. Annonymous?

There are going to be mistakes in every store, and if we are normal human beings and good Jews we are not going to make big issues about them, we are going to knock on the office door and bring it to the attention of the owner. Why are we running to the VAAD to make a big stink in the neighborhood? Why are we not giving the owner of the store the opportunity to correct the problem. I have found problems in the Far Rockaway store when I shopped there as well, did I announce it in the paper or did I tell the manager? Of course I told the manager. I wasn't looking to make machlokes or make headlines. First things first, be a mentch. If the store owner doesn't comply, then bring it to the attention of your own Rav and ask him what to do, let him handle it.

FYI, GG asked to speak to the person that started this whole "stink" and face their accuser. They were refused that opportunity. Is that "yasher", is that proper jewish procedure? That "smells" to me. They asked to see the store receipt to verify that the item was actually bought from their store and wanted to meet the consumer to see if it was actually a customer of theirs. I ask you, all the people who read this blog? Do they have a right to ask that? Why were they refused that opportunity. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot? Do you feel that you have a right to face your accuser? Is that Jewish Law? Mr. Annonymous, would you want the right to face your accuser? You called me dumb, I would like the opportunity to face you and know who you are.

Next are we talking about the VAAD or just the head of the VAAD here. And who is the VAAD exactly? I would like to know and have a list of all members posted not just the name of Rabbi Eisen and Rabbi Hess. I would like to know the names of all the members of the VAAD.

In addition, if the food establishments are open, the VAAD should be open. There is no excuse for the Ksshrus Supervising organization to be closed for Chol Hamoed. Food is being cooked, deliveries are being accepted and there should be mashgichim and Office staff available the entire week for questions, and assistance both to the establishments that are relying on them and to the consumer. This is unacceptable and a big busha to the community. Rabbi Eisen should take vacation another time, his family is not more improtant than his obligation to this community, period end of the story. As I said, I was in the GG office when Rabbi Eisen was called a little before 2:00 yestterday that the 2nd mashgiach left. It was the rule of the VAAD that 2 mashgichim be present at GG at all times. The VAAD mashgiach called him to inform him that he was there alone and needed assistance. He did not recieve a call back until just a few minutes ago, and that is becaue he took the phone away from the other mashgiach who didn't return till this morning. The mashgiach was there alone till he left last night at 6:00pm. This is the way the VAAD runs their business and then blamess GG for mistakes and being at fault. The VAAD is responsible for the kashrus at this establishment and we the consumer must hold the VAAD responsible for all kashrus issues at GG and all other establishments under their supervision. We pay for it, and so does the stores who pass the cost onto us. There is no if's ands or buts here, we should demand answers and accountability!!! Do not be lax here, demand accountability from the VAAD where the responsibility lies.

I am not promoting GG because I like it better than any other store in the neighborhood, although I do. I am promoting peace and harmony in this neighborhood because it is a Chilul Hashem what is happening here. And every goy that works for this store and is at risk of losing their job sees it. Understand something te people who have worked in GG have worked their for years and years. GG is loyal to their employees and they count on their jobs. They have grown accustomed to the Jewish community and have learned to respect us. What do you think we are teaching them about us as Jews right now?

And again, if I am the dumb one why do you insist on being annonymous? Why do you feel you have the right to throw stones and stay safe behind your mask? It is very easy to make derogatory comments towards people when you don't have to be accountable for because no one knows who you are.

Message to all who post here. This is a very nice thing that OrthoMom has done for the community. How about showing a little Hakoros Hatov and maintaing at least the minimum amount of respect here for one and other. We are all Jews here and we all need to respect each other even though we have a difference of opinion. We are all eager to voice our opinion and many of us are hot under the collar. That doesn't mean we have to attack each other, it just means that we should take the opportunity to voice our opinion it a polite and concise manner.

1:00 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

Annonymous "of all the stupid comments here (and there have been tons) this is hands down the stupidest. i will explain slowly. if GG were to want to give up their hasgacha from the vaad, the vadd would have no control over forcing GG to sell their store. the vaad isnt forcing their high standards on GG, unless GG wants their supervision. if GG would want to give up the vaads hasgacha and get it from soemone else, they are welcome to, and the vaad wouldnt give a fig whether they sold their store or not. but being under the vaad hasgacha just makes good business sense for them."

Here's the thing. I agree, if the VAAD is not doing their job properly, is closed when they should be open, does not respond within a reasonable amount of time, has different standards for different establishments,then they are not serving this community and stores should seek outside kashrus supervisions. But then our Rabbonim must back that up and tell their kehillas not to "boycot" those establishments that are boycoting the VAAD. This has happened before and those establishments lost their shirts and had to close. Who wanted carvel to close? They didn't want to pay the VAAD and out they went. I have no problem having the OU or OK or Kaf K give hashgachas here. I know they would not be on the take and I would trust their hashgachas a thousand percent. Bring back Rabbi Chait, he needs the parnsah and I don't believe anyone had a problem with him. If any establishment hired an OU trained Mashgiach temidi I don't believe anyone would have a problem with that even if they hired the Kof K or O K to provide supervision. Competition is always good for business, but we all have to be on the same page in the neighborhood. No one should appoint themselves king and let power get to their heads. I would rather have a complete world renowned and accepted organization give Hashgacha than a local one.

The buisnessowners are afraid to form an association because they fear they will be thrown out of the VAAD. That is ridiculous, it is almost like "Union busting tactics". I think they should do it anyway. The VAAD can't throw out everyone, they would have no one to supervise. If they had a businessowners association, they might be able to offer their employees discounts on health insurance, be able to buy items in bulk and pass the savings along, and do other things I am not aware of but I am sure it can benefit the community. Fear of the VAAD keepiong these businessowners from discounts that they can pass on to benefit the community or help charitable organizations in the community is something that we as consumers should look into and investigate.

We can't allow an organization that was established for our benefit create so much controversy and discourse here. We are happy to be Kosher consumers and wise consumers. We do have a choice on kosher supervision and we don't need this heartache, and having loshon horah spread around here. We have many wonderful stores here and B"H the choice where to shop. Enough is enough.

Also, I want to make another point very clear. Kids do surf blog pages. Keep that in mind when you make comments here and other areas. Don't think they are not interested in what parents say, they are if only to see the hipocricy in what we say and do. Be careful in how you put things and how you say things. You don't know who you are speaking to and who is reading these posts.

1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

let me explain how the vaad is run:

1 part time secretary who is never around. i think she just got out of high school approximatly 4 years ago.

1 asst. director. mr. hess. hes not a rabbi yet. he is about 23 years old and learns in far rockaway. he is also hardly there, or in the 5 towns area. no prevois kashrus or food bussiness experience. the restaruants, stores and caterers teach him what to do. you can not learn all this from a book.

and the famous rabbi eisen. he gets over $120,000 and is never around. he is always in brooklyn. call check for your self. we are paying his salary for him to slap our community in the face. we should hire local people who are capable and support us.

then there are a lot of part time mashgichim. most under the age of 30. they get a minimal salary and are all paid by the merchants directly. so who do you think they really answer to. the ones who pay them?? i think so..

and they all get cash. thats against the law if they dont claim it. you think any one is claiming the cash.

i know first hand. there is no disuting this.

kosher consumer if your really a lawyer, look into this.
arrest eisen now.

1:46 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

Ok, you are annonymous, How do you know this? Did you work for the VAAD yourself? Ok, I sent an email to the head of the Five Towns Shul List requesting that Rabbi Eisen and the Vaad be investigated. I suggest that everyone does the same. I also suggest that all of you speak to the Rav of your shul, and the President of your shul. Call an emergency meeting of your Kehillah and bring all these issues to their attention. Ask for an investigation. Demand that the qualifications of Rabbi Eisen and his staff be produced. Ask for financial statements. Ask for a record keeping of staff hours. Demand that the mashgichim be on the VAAD payroll and not on store payrolls. Make sure everything is on the up and up. Nothing in the VAAD office should be hidden. Board of Directors of any shul should be able to review the books of the VAAD. Consumers should be able to walk into the VAAD office and leave questions or bring it sheilot.

An open meeting should be held in the community where these questions can be raised and answered. We have a right to answers and we have a right to the kashrus service we are paying for. And if the allegations that Rabbi Eisen is picking on GG is true then that has to come out in the paper with an open apology from the VAAD.

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Ok, I sent an email to the head of the Five Towns Shul List requesting that Rabbi Eisen and the Vaad be investigated. I suggest that everyone does the same."

You are either delusional or seriously misled. What does the Five Towns Shul List have to do with the vaad and why would they want to participate in your witchhunt? It's still very clear that you have some ulterior motive in defeding GG and you have an axe to grind with Rabbi Eisen. Because anyone who considers these issues objectively does not arrive at the same conclusions as you, and is certainly not driven to accuse Rabbi Eisen of the ill will that you describe.

While no one here has been presented with all the facts, there is little reason to suspect that the vaad "cooked" this all up for the wrong reasons. When there's smoke, there's reason to be concerned that there's fire. Although I know nothing first hand, my logical and objective conclusion from everything that I've heard and read is that GG has in the past been unresponsive and marginally uncooperative with regard to requests, demands, and/or suggestionsi by the vaad. You may not like the vaad or agree with everything they request, demand or suggest, but that is how kashrus agencies operate, and there is no way for them to do their job correctly without throwing their weight around a little bitt. No one has been talking about an uprising by other store owners, and there haven't been too many complaints voiced by other establishments under the vaad's supervision. In fact, considering that the vaad has almost never pulled its hechsher from anyone it's reasonable to assume that they haven't been as tough as they could be with store owners - and possibly for the wrong reason.

But if GG has ever been the least bit unresponsive or uncooperative with the vaad to the extent that the vaad feels comfortable and confident taking away their keys and asking them to sell the store, the objective conclusion is that there is some cause for concern about the store's ownership/management - rather than concluding that the vaad is "shaking them down" or flexing their muscles without any justification.

3:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

aries2756,

If you insist that everyone come clean and sign their names to their anonymous comments, you should probably be the one to start

3:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the Vaad would not close a successful business because they charge several thousand dollars a year for "protection". I have also been told by a reputable source that GG has been told to sell their business to a very interested party ... Supersol. if anyone else finds this situation amusing.... please let me know... supersol has its own share of problems...just not as documented becouse of personal affiliations in town.... in addition, fellow five towners...hasnt this issue of GG been beaten to death... I guess we have nothing better to do with our lives but continue l"h.

6:06 PM  
Blogger aries2756 said...

In response to Annonymous, READ RESPONSE IN ALL CAPS POINT BY POINT: You are either delusional or seriously misled. What does the Five Towns Shul List have to do with the vaad and why would they want to participate in your witchhunt? THIS IS NOT A WITCH-HUNT AND IT DOES NOT BELONG TO ME. THE FIVETOWNS SHUL LIST SERVES THE COMMUNITY AND RIGHT NOW IT IS QUESTIONABLE IF THE VAAD HAS BEEN DOING THE SAME. It's still very clear that you have some ulterior motive in defeding GG and you have an axe to grind with Rabbi Eisen. I HAVE NO ULTERIOR MOTIVE OTHER THAN THE TRUTH AND FAIRNESS IN THIS COMMUNITY HOWEVER WHAT IS IN THIS FOR YOU? WHO ARE YOU AND WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THE VAAD SO AGRESSIVELY? Because anyone who considers these issues objectively does not arrive at the same conclusions as you, and is certainly not driven to accuse Rabbi Eisen of the ill will that you describe. WHO EXACTLY IS ANYONE, YOURSELF? ASK OTHER STORE OWNERS, I HAVE.

While no one here has been presented with all the facts, there is little reason to suspect that the vaad "cooked" this all up for the wrong reasons. I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT I ASKED CLEARLY FOR THE FACTS, AND I DID PRESENT THEM CLEARLY AND CONCISELY, SO ALTHOUGH YOU DID NOT BOTHER TO INVESTIGATE THE FACTS, I DID. I ASKED FOR PROOF ON CERTAIN ISSUES AND WAS DELIVERED THE PROOF. When there's smoke, there's reason to be concerned that there's fire. Although I know nothing first hand, AGAIN, I MADE IT MY BUSINESS TO KNOW, I WENT INTO GG AND ASKED AND WAS GIVEN ANSWERS TO MY QUESNTIONS, AND PROOF WHEN ASKED. I EVEN QUESTIONED THE VAAD MASHGIACH AS I DISCLOSED IN AN EARLIER POST, my logical and objective conclusion from everything that I've heard and read is that GG has in the past been unresponsive and marginally uncooperative with regard to requests, demands, and/or suggestionsi by the vaad. THESE ARE NEITHER LOGICAL NOR OBJECTIVE CONCLUSIONS, NOR ARE THEY TRUTHFUL, GG HAS COOPERATED WITH EVERY DEMAND AND REQUEST AND THEY HAVE DOCUMENTATION TO PROVE IT, IF YOU WANTED TO YOU COULD ALSO GO IN AND ASK TO SEE IT. SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BE FOR YOU MAKE LIABLEOUS ACCUSATIONS SUCH AS YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENT WHICH IS "MOTZI SHEM RAH". You may not like the vaad or agree with everything they request, demand or suggest, but that is how kashrus agencies operate, SHOW ME ANOTHER KASHRUS ORGANIZATION THAT ACTS THAT WAY. I HAVE ALREADY SENT AN INQUIRY TO THE "OU" AND WILL SEND THE SAME INQUIRY THAT IS ANNONYMOUS TO OTHER KASHRUS ORGANIZATIONS TO SEE HOW THEY WOULD HANDLE THIS SITUATION. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO INVESTIGATE? and there is no way for them to do their job correctly without throwing their weight around a little bitt. NO ONE GETS TO THROW THEIR WEIGHT AROUND, EVERYONE HOWEVER MUST FOLLOW HALACHA TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW, AND EVERYONE HAS TO FOLLOW THE SAME ONES. No one has been talking about an uprising by other store owners, and there haven't been too many complaints voiced by other establishments under the vaad's supervision. HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS, HAVE YOU TAKEN A SURVEY? HERE IS ANOTHER FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN FINDING OUT THAT YOU ARE NOT PRIVY TOO, OR MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW OR DON'T WANT TO PASS ON, EVEN THE MASHGICHIM HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING. AND IF THEY COMPLAIN TOO LOUDLY THEY GET FIRED OR ARE ASKED TO LEAVE. YOU CAN'T TRACE THIS, AGAIN BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO CARRY THEIR OWN PAYROLL RECORDS, ISN'T THIS INTERESTING? In fact, considering that the vaad has almost never pulled its hechsher from anyone it's reasonable to assume that they haven't been as tough as they could be with store owners - and possibly for the wrong reason. ONE MUST NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING, DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT ASSUME STANDS FOR? ASK YOUR KIDS THEY WILL TELL YOU!

But if GG has ever been the least bit unresponsive or uncooperative with the vaad to the extent that the vaad feels comfortable and confident taking away their keys and asking them to sell the store, the objective conclusion is that there is some cause for concern about the store's ownership/management - rather than concluding that the vaad is "shaking them down" or flexing their muscles without any justification. AGAIN, GG HAS NEVER BEEN UNCOOPERATIVE AND HAS EVERYTHING DOCUMENTED. THEY EVEN INSTALLED VIDEO FEEDBACK INTO THE VAAD OFFICES SO THEY CAN WATCH THE STORE, NO ONE ELSE THOUGHT OF DOING THIS, BUT THEN AGAIN,THERE IS RARELY ANYONE AT THE OFFICE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS. AND ONCE AGAIN, YOU ARE VERY OBVIOUSLY NOT OBJECTIVE AND ONE MUST NEVER COME TO ANY CONCLUSION WITHOUT FIRST RESEARCHING THE FACTS.


Ok, I answered you point for point, because you really "p"d me off and that is not my normal way of handling things but you seem to be a "know it all" of nothing at all because you don't do any research or get any facts together at all before you go off at the mouth and you admit to it in your post. You say you don't know and yet you speak so YOU are "motzi shem rah", right here in the month of Tishrei. There are questions that need to be raised here because Kashrus is a major issue. Here are some more and if you care instead of just being controversial maybe you will roll up your sleeves and make yourself useful.

Is the VAAD a not-for-profit or a regular owned corporation? If it is a regular corporation who owns it and if it is what gives that person or group the right to come into the neighborhood and have a monopoly on the kashrus supervision in this neighborhood? Why should we not get together as a neighborhood and agree that a number of reliable hechsheirim be allowed in? Why, if the previous post is correct, should our food prices skyrocket because we are paying someone $120,000 a year on top of the prices we are paying mashgichim?

Here is another question. If we are paying $120,000 a year for a Brooklyn resident to head our Kashrus why is he never here? For that kind of salary, he should be here at least 9:00 - 5:00. And why in heaven's name is the Kashrus Supervision agency closed on the most important of days? In addition, shouldn't there be an answering service fending calls for emergency purposes? And what is an acceptable amount of time allowance for Rabbi Eisen or a member of his staff to return a call and answer a sheilah?

Here is another question. Who here in this community knows his qualifications? Is he certified in all areas of kashrus or as someone mentioned in an earlier post only in "bugs". Does he or does he not know 100% the ins and outs of kashering meats and poultry and deveining meat? Is he qualified in all areas and questions of kashrus or only one or two areas? For that kind of salary he should not only be available but he should be an expert. And what about his staff of mashgichim, what tests do they take or what certification of qualifications do they have? Is what the previous post said true about Rabbi Hess, is he indeed a Rabbi or not? We as a community have as much a right to know about the supervising agency as the stores we buy from, even more so. We should demand full disclosure and this is not a witch-hunt. If they are the only group our Rabbonim are going to allow into this community, we have a right to know everything about them. Are we so blind that we just trust anyone? That is what happened in Monsey, and that is what we should learn from. The Vaad and mashgichim trusted him because of who they believed him to be and they treated him "differently" than other store keepers. That was the biggest of all mistakes.

We should demand the same treatment for all establishments, no one should get preferential and no one should get more stringent treatment, everyone should get strictly by the book treatment. In addition, if the head of this Kashrus organization is responsible for the supervision of not one but two establishments in Brooklyn that were caught with Treif meat and you are suggesting that I am conducting a witchunt, what exactly are you trying to cover up here? Our community has a right to know the mistakes that he is responsible for and decide if they want to be forgiving towards him, since he does not want to be forgiving towards GG and has taken away the keys from the owners. In addition, I did hear from a very reliable source that he is in favor of Supersol buying them out, and that is one source that I will not reveal. But that does show bias on his behalf. In addition, if you want to know the truth I will tell you that I personally asked him if the owners of GG are shomer shabbos and he first answered "no" then back peddled and said "let them provide proof". Again that is being "motzi shem rah". When I went back to GG, they gave me the same proof that they provided to him , a letter from Chaim's rav provided as far back as 2000. Why did he tell me they should produce proof when he already had proof? What did he mean by that when he already knew that the Rav would back Chaim up completely. That smells of bias to me and it is out and out wrong and not k'halacha. I don't like when people play these kind of games with me.

I am not afraid to investigate, and I did. I am not afraid to walk into the office and ask for proof and I did, and they will give you the same letter and give the same letter to your Rav or to the OU. Why did he tell me they were not Shomer Shabbos? Why did he want to spread that information? Why didn't he just say he didn't know, or it wasn't his place to discuss that. What was his motive behind it? That shows me a lack in character. Again this is not a witch hunt I am stating the facts that I DO KNOW, NOT THAT I AM CONCLUDING.

And last but not least, do your homework. I provided you with my "online name" I have used it in articles I have written and elsewhere in this community. Why should I make it easy for you, someone who is ashamed to speak up in public and someone who is just looking to make machlokes without really researching the facts or looking for a way that is fair to the community and a way that a real investigation into the truth can be accomplished?

7:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BRAVO. GREAT POST

8:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i, too, feel this was a great post. this individual finally makes some sense of all this nonsense.. the others should be ashamed of themselves for the L"H. know the facts, then make your own decision without hurting others. Bravo!!

9:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
i, too, feel this was a great post. this individual finally makes some sense of all this nonsense.. the others should be ashamed of themselves for the L"H. know the facts, then make your own decision without hurting others. Bravo!!

And putting those with an agenda in thier place.

1 VAAD, 1 STANDARD

10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's an "online name", and how is that more credible than "anonymous"?

1:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Ok, I sent an email to the head of the Five Towns Shul List requesting that Rabbi Eisen and the Vaad be investigated. I suggest that everyone does the same."

You are either delusional or seriously misled. What does the Five Towns Shul List have to do with the vaad and why would they want to participate in your witchhunt? It's still very clear that you have some ulterior motive in defeding GG and you have an axe to grind with Rabbi Eisen. Because anyone who considers these issues objectively does not arrive at the same conclusions as you, and is certainly not driven to accuse Rabbi Eisen of the ill will that you describe.

While no one here has been presented with all the facts, there is little reason to suspect that the vaad "cooked" this all up for the wrong reasons. When there's smoke, there's reason to be concerned that there's fire. Although I know nothing first hand, my logical and objective conclusion from everything that I've heard and read is that GG has in the past been unresponsive and marginally uncooperative with regard to requests, demands, and/or suggestionsi by the vaad. You may not like the vaad or agree with everything they request, demand or suggest, but that is how kashrus agencies operate, and there is no way for them to do their job correctly without throwing their weight around a little bitt. No one has been talking about an uprising by other store owners, and there haven't been too many complaints voiced by other establishments under the vaad's supervision. In fact, considering that the vaad has almost never pulled its hechsher from anyone it's reasonable to assume that they haven't been as tough as they could be with store owners - and possibly for the wrong reason.

But if GG has ever been the least bit unresponsive or uncooperative with the vaad to the extent that the vaad feels comfortable and confident taking away their keys and asking them to sell the store, the objective conclusion is that there is some cause for concern about the store's ownership/management - rather than concluding that the vaad is "shaking them down" or flexing their muscles without any justification.

3:52 PM
Response to your comments. Are you in this communtiy long enough to remember King David and Rabbi Eisen stopping a party function, because of his new power hungry approach when he began his career here, nearly putting King David out of business? Do you remember the Rabbi Eisnen "Witch Hunt" seeking and creating a public "loshon Horah" about respected business owners in our community?, do you remember shul's pulling out and stop supporting the Vaad and the Vaad almost going broke? Do you remember how are Rabbi's closed there eye's when Rabbi Chait, a true "pure person" was made into a dish rag by our wonderful Rabbi Eisen. I am not proud of any of the above. It is time to stop this disgusting trend, wake up,I think our driver is sleeping at the wheel.

1:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is everyone coming home from shul saying that their rabbi suggested that the congregants buy their meat elsewhere?

How is it so questionable whether a person is shomer shabbos?

1:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1 VAAD, 1 STANDARD

4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Were have you been for the last two years. Rabbi Reisman gives his separate supervision to about 15 stores (including Brachs and Supersol). Does anyone know if charges or does he do gratis

12:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rabbi Reisman gives his separate supervision to about 15 stores (including Brachs and Supersol

SO GG IS ON HIS LIST BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO PAY??

12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

interesting!!!!! so GG can get Rabbi Reisman's OK (HAHA) if they pay for it? how is Rabbi reisman's supervision done? does he nikkur? is he present for deliveries. I am curious?

6:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is seems logical that the pair of hasgachas The Vaad and Rov Kravitz would make GG a place to patronize again.

8:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think dual certification is a great idea!! why wasnt this done before? i feel better now knowing there are Two to watch over what I buy...thanks

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i feel better now knowing there are Two to watch over what I buy

But is this necessary??

8:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no, it is not necessary, however, I have been told by the rabbi on the premises that it was done to make the consumers (us) more secure after the LH spoken during Tishrei. They also now have a website to show all customers they have nothing to hide....how much more can we ask for??? Blood??

12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They also now have a website to show all customers they have nothing to hide..

Site address please??

3:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Believe me the owners are ganivs!! They will do what ever it takes to make extra money!! I wouldnt trust them if you paid me!!

9:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am telling you the blogs defending GG are the owners themselves having access to this website and writing their own stories!! They are not withstanding people of the community!! They are not religious people. They do not keep kosher and one of the siblings is married to a non jew.

9:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Believe me the owners are ganivs!! They will do what ever it takes to make extra money!! I wouldnt trust them if you paid me!!

I wouldn't pay you and I wouldn't believe you. BTW, what kind of business are you in? What are the rules of business again? Are you in business to make money or to give it away? Go back to Business class 101 and GET REAL! And while your at it grow up and stop whining, if you can't afford to shop there go to Kosher World.

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am telling you the blogs defending GG are the owners themselves having access to this website and writing their own stories!! They are not withstanding people of the community!! They are not religious people. They do not keep kosher and one of the siblings is married to a non jew.

And what religion to you adhere to spreading L"H and being Motzi Shem Rah? You are very orthodox and very committed to Torah and Mitzvos no doubt. Anyone wish to argue this point?

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ALL OF YOU PEOPLE DONT HAVE CLUE AS TO WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

THE VAAD IS MADE UP OF ALL THE RABBIS IN THE COMMUNITY
AND NOT RABBI EISEN.
SO IF THE THE VAAD TOOK AWAY THE
THE KASHRAS OF GOURMET GLATT
IT WAS YOUR RABBI IN ALL OF YOUR SHULS THAT YOU ALL BELONG TO
SO IF YOU RESPECT YOUR LOCAL ORTHODOX RABBIS THEN YOU ALL
WOULD GET A LIFE AND STOP SPECULATING WHAT WENT ON AND FIND
ANOTHER PLACE TO SHOP AND LAY THIS TO REST

6:38 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

You don't know what your talking about. Rabbi Eisen is the Rabbinic Administrator of the VAAD as it so clearly states on the letterhead. Stephen Savitsky is the President and Moishe Mishkowitz is the Vice President. Then there are a list of 26 Rabbanim listed as Rabbinic Committee members.

So get your facts straight. The Rabbanim are only on the committee and any number of them who have the time when RYE calls a meeting can show up, never all of them and not necessarily the same ones come continually meeting after meeting.

And once again, NONE of them bothered to speak to the Bollenders nore the VAAD Mashgiach present or past to find out the "other side of the story" before coming to their conclusion. The just stuck together like glue.

1:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When kosher supervision starts being just that and not a business we will all doing ourselves a favor. The agencies all of them can start paying the mashgichim themselves a respectable salary with benefits. At this junction, they are looking out to protect the all-old boys club their own. They see no problem in any store for example a Pizza store opening doors away from one another one G-d forbid some competition should happen to their own business what a one sided view. What do they fear if not their own self-esteem?

8:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If there is no kashrut problem, then it is about turf and kashrut control in the area. After all the Jewish week reported that GG brought in an outside mashgiach and this did not sit well with the local Vaad. It is all about money. Kashrut has become 150 billion business. For shame.

11:39 PM  
Anonymous Eliyahoo William Dwek said...

When ‘dayanim’, ‘rabbis’ and false ‘mekubalim’ use the Torah for their own power and commercial profit, this behaviour is abhorrent.

No other ‘rabbi’ will ever act against another ‘rabbi’ - even when he knows his colleague is clearly desecrating the Torah. Each rabbi is only worried about losing his own position.

Therefore, the ‘rabbi’, ‘dayyan’ or false ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) will never effect justice. And he will never truly stand for the Torah or the Honour of Hashem. His pocket will always prevail.

The Torah must never be used for commercial gain and profit. Amm israel can only be lead by those who have the necessary love and respect of Hashem and the Torah.

11:52 AM  
Anonymous Eliyahoo William Dwek said...

Any man who chooses to be a ‘rabbi’ (‘true teacher’ of Torah) or a ‘dayan’ (‘judge’), or a ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) should be doing so Voluntarily. Out of his pure love for Hashem and the Torah. And his Ahavat Yisrael.

If he refuses to do community work voluntarily, and wants and accepts payment for everything he does, such a man should not be heading a community. He should get a job and earn a living. He can collect milk bottles or clean the windows. That is what is called ‘earning a living’.

Torah is learned, studied and taught: out of Love. Voluntarily. But the ‘rabbis’ have turned the Torah into their ‘Profession’, from which they earn money.

We are commanded in the Shema to:
‘LOVE Hashem, your G-d, WITH ALL YOUR HEART, and with all your soul and with all your might.’

‘VE’AHAVTA et Hashem Elokecha BECHOL LEVAVECHA uvechol nafshecha uvechol meodecha.’ (Devarim, Vaethanan, 6:4-5)

Is the ordinary man or woman PAID to pray to Hashem, or to say some words of Torah? No. Has veshalom! But the rabbis are. These men can give ‘lovely’ shiurim that they have rehearsed. But they would not give a shiur without being paid for it.

The true hachamim and rabbis of old, all actually worked at proper jobs and professions.

Wake up! Even a little child could have worked this out. These salaried men can never truly stand for the Torah, because in a case of conflict between a correct course of action according to the Torah, and the rabbi or rav’s pocket – his pocket and position will always prevail.

Pirkei Avot: (2:2)
“Raban Gamliel beno shel Rabi Yehuda HaNassi omer: yafeh talmud Torah im derech eretz, sheyegiat shenaihem mashkachat avon. Vechol Torah she’ein imah melacha sofa betailah ve’goreret avon. Vechol haoskim im hatzibbur yiheyu imahem leShem Shamayim……”

“Rabban Gamliel, the son of Rabi Yehuda HaNassi, said: It is good to combine Torah study with a worldly occupation, for working at them both drives sin from the mind. All Torah without an occupation will in the end fail and lead to sin. And let all who work for the community do so for the sake of Heaven………”

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