Thanksgiving Inconsistencies
Thanksgiving is always such a funny hodge-podge of a holiday for us. OrthoDad and I are off from work, the boys' Yeshivas out here all have a half day Thursday and school as usual on Friday, while the local girls' schools have half a day tomorrow and no school on Friday. Being as there's no bus service, one of us (usually the OrthoHusband) has the early part of the day monopolized by having to get them all to school and back. None of the kids learn a whit about Thanksgiving except for my youngest who is still in pre-school (remember the handprint turkeys? They still make them). When I asked one of the middles whether Thanksgiving was mentioned in class, the answer I got was "We don't learn about those things in school". (Though apparently it was mentioned last year while said middle kid was still in pre-school - at least some version thereof.) Yet we end the day by marking the holiday with a big, traditional, family Thanksgiving dinner - turkey, stuffing, pumpkin pie and all.
And yes, I fully recognize the fact that my kids are getting mixed signals as to the significance of the holiday. Such is life as right-wing Orthodox Americans, I guess.
And yes, I fully recognize the fact that my kids are getting mixed signals as to the significance of the holiday. Such is life as right-wing Orthodox Americans, I guess.
posted by orthomom at 7:57 PM
43 Comments:
FYI my son's yeshiva (YKLI) has a 1/2 day Thursday and off Fri which matches the girls. I really appreciate that - I hate when they have different schedules because it invariably involves something like "boys' learning is more important than girls'" or some other like nonsense.
I completely agree and find it to be extremely annoying when the kids' schedules are all over the place. I find that to be an extremely common occurrence throughout the year. Especially as the boys' school I send to does not give any winter vacation at all - instead choosing to spread a few long weekends throughout the year. Unfortunately, almost none of the weekends coincide with those given by the girls' school, leaving us with a bit of a mess when it comes to planning family trips.
Bnot Shulamith has off both days! Yeshiva Ketanah has a half day tomorrow and they are off on Thursday.
So your comments on the boys and girls yeshiva 'out here' is incorrect...
Anonymous said...
Bnot Shulamith has off both days! Yeshiva Ketanah has a half day tomorrow and they are off on Thursday.
So your comments on the boys and girls yeshiva 'out here' is incorrect...
Fair point. I guess I was referring to my own kids' Yeshivas - while trying not to make them as easy to pin down fro anonimity concerns. Color me sheepish...
Maybe you should consider YKLI? They have been very accomodating in that respect (but only with TAG). So winter vacation is Fri-Tues, and Sun, Mon and Tues coincide with the girls'.
It is also a great Yeshiva. Unfortunately the building is not so great...
(BTW I am kidding, I think we are lucky in our neighborhood that all the yeshivas are excellent)
"Unfortunately, almost none of the weekends coincide with those given by the girls' school, leaving us with a bit of a mess when it comes to planning family trips."
I thought the Orthofamily doesn't DO trips. (Reference two posts down where OM trashes everyone who takes family vacations)
Dear Anon
Correction:
YKLI has school Thursday and is off Friday.
I thought the Orthofamily doesn't DO trips. (Reference two posts down where OM trashes everyone who takes family vacations)
1. Where did the Orthofamily doesn't DO trips?? I think you might have misunderstood somewhere.
2. Where did I trash people for taking vacations? If I "trashed" anyone (which I have a hard time agreeing that I did), it was the people buying bathing suits for those trips in the middle of November. But I think trash is a bit harsh for my gentle ribbing.
YKLI has half day tomorrow (until 12:00) and yes they have off on Friday.
Leave OM alone- everyne takes her so seriousely, PLEASE....
remember the handprint turkeys?
do I ever. I loved those. I havent seen them in years since my kids grew up, I cant wait to see my grandkids'.
Not mentioning Thanksgiving is the least of it. It's scandalous how little these Ortho kids actually know about any secular topic. But I understand: ignorance of secular topics is important if you want to create docile Ortho adults to boss around.
One annoyance for grandparents who live a couple of hours from their grandchildren is that the youngsters have virtually no time off from school to make sense of a grandparents' visit (which requires so much travel time on each end). If the children had Thanksgiving off or at least one Sunday each month, grandparents could see their einekelach regularly. Don't suggest Fridays because in the winter months working grandparents can't get to the grandkids' locale.
Halb is off both days!
YAY!
Your celebration of Thanksgiving is totally appropirate and shame on any Yeshiva that does not acknowledge the day. We as Jewish Americans should give thanks that we can live in a country where we can choose to celebrate, or not celebrate the national holidays, where we can send our children to yeshivot that might or might not have school on national holidays.
To not give thanks for all the blessings that we have (even if they are all from hashem) is so totally wrong on so many levels.
Thanksgiving, lulei demistafina, is a Jewish holiday. First off, it was invented by men wearing black hats. Second, the seudas yom tov includes Turkey, aka, tarnegol hodu, as in “Hodu Lashem ki tov.” Next, the Lions, representative of Shevet Yehudah and by extension the Davidic Monarchy, play on Thanksgiving.
Finally, the gematria of “Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade” (depending on how you spell it) equates to so many different kabbalistic references that the limited space provided here does not allow a full exposition. Just trust me on that one.
Gut yom tov!
actually, Thanksgiving and hanukkah have a common theme , l'hodot
u'l'hallel. also rock, whether tzur or Plymouth. also both holidays are
related to sukkoth, and both come out at around month-end. also they both
come around when the winter is beginning (it begins earlier in America than
in Israel.)
didn't we go through this last year?
while thanksgiving does not officially exist where i am, and i have too crazy a day to make a thanksgiving dinner, my husband and i decided that we're going ot have turkey sandwiches (with imported cranberry sauce!) and eat them in front of the (american!) football game as it's broadcast live this evening. a little nostalgia is good for the soul! (and i can't wait to see the commericals!)
happy thanksgiving!
Orthofamily: Happy Thanksgiving from all of us at The Muqata :)
I don't know if TAG beshitta doesn't teach about Thanksgiving. I think what the kids learn really reflect the individual teacher's attitude. My fourth grader's Hebrew teacher actually adorned this week's homework sheet with turkeys. So, though they do have (less than 1/2 day) school today, they are not ignoring it. The preschool is off altogether, but that may be to lighten up the traffic congestion that arises on school days with no bussing. And TAG only started doing this last year. In my view, it is silly b/c they do give off days like Washington's Birthday and tooke Election Day off as in service day, so why object to Thanksgiving in particular?
A happy Thanksgiving to all. Orthomom, I too am a big fan of Thanksgiving and think it is important, but would not choose a school on the basis of how they do (or do not) address Thanksgiving. I would point out though, that those who adhere to the standards of their community while at home both out of respect for the community and their rabaaim, but adhere to less stringent codes while on vacation out of the community, might feel that although their "kids are getting mixed signals as to the significance of the [conduct at issue]. Such is life as right-wing Orthodox Americans." I guess one person's hypocricy is another's rational compromise.
And TAG only started doing this last year. In my view, it is silly b/c they do give off days like Washington's Birthday and tooke Election Day off as in service day, so why object to Thanksgiving in particular?
I agree. Frankly, I was surprised the girls had school today. Usually, on these holidays, TAG gives a full day off, and the boys have just the morning classes. I guess treating Thanksgiving like a holiday is getting less and less kosher.
I would point out though, that those who adhere to the standards of their community while at home both out of respect for the community and their rabaaim, but adhere to less stringent codes while on vacation out of the community, might feel that although their "kids are getting mixed signals as to the significance of the [conduct at issue].
First of all, I personally did not use the word hypocrisy to describe situation under discussion. I was just describing a phenomenon that I see precticed by some Five Towns residents - there was actually no editorializing on said practice at all.
Your point, however, is a good one. Everyone has their own standards as to what level of inconsistency is intolerable. Obviously, I am willing to accept a school for my kids that does not promote Thanksgiving as an important holiday. But part of that is rooted in teh fact that I am not necessarily one who treats celebrating Thanksgiving as an obligation. I'm perfectly happy to partake in a family Thankgsiving dinner, but if I hadn't received the invitation, I would probably have been just as happy feeding the kids tacos.
For someone who views celebrating Thanksgiving as part of being a good American, however, the inconsistent messages his kids are receiving might be far more intolerable.
Why do you call him "orthohusband" and not "orthodad"? Do you also say he is "babysitting" when he's watching the kids???
when did TAG start giving school on Thanksgiving?
Anonymous said...
Why do you call him "orthohusband" and not "orthodad"? Do you also say he is "babysitting" when he's watching the kids???
No particular reason. I called him OrthoDad earlier in the post as well. And no, when he watches the kids, I don't call it "babysitting". (Though I actually think he does...)
Orthomom, I tried very hard to not make my comment seem like an attack, it was just an observation that struck me that I thought worth sharing. I think the point has been made on this blog before,I -- like many others -- too often fall into the trap of viewing those to the left of me within the Orthodox community as being a bit too irreligious and often hypocritical while seeing those to the right of me as being crazy zealots. (Although I often still beleive that when others feel that way they are wrong and intolerant of others, while I, on the other hand, am correct). In any event, enjoy the holiday and, in the spirit of the day, thanks for your blog.
Anonymous said...
when did TAG start giving school on Thanksgiving?
Last year. Apparently, all Bais Yaakovs have always had school on Thankgiving. However, TAG has always given the full weekend off. Last year, I guess someone got it into the school administration's heads that in order to be on par with an actual Bais Yaakov (which has always been important to TAG), they should probably start conforming to the BY standard of giving half a day. So now, parents have to get their children to school by 8:30, only to pick them up at 11:30 or 12. Personally, I'd rather the school fail the Bais Yaakov "sniff test", and let the kids sleep late for once.
Unfortunately, no one asked me for my opinion over at the school, so I'm relegated to giving it here.
Orthomom, I tried very hard to not make my comment seem like an attack, it was just an observation that struck me that I thought worth sharing.
I don't think it did come of as an attack at all - and I thought I answered it as if it were not one. I appreciated your observation, and agree that it was a very valid one.
It is unfotunate that sometimes Yeshivas do things to make a statement. Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday like xmas. It is a national non denominational holiday like July 4th. Life is full of enough pressure, why do families have to be inconvenienced just for Yeshivas to make a statement. Giving the day off is not the same as celebrating the day. Families need to spend more time together.
It is unfotunate that sometimes Yeshivas do things to make a statement
Obvious truth-its not Talmud Torah they are concerned with-see how many days off before Pesach, schools start later than public schools end later-so its a phoney baloney statement-also make it difficult for families who aren't working to get together.
orthomom, stop trying to be dovbear. Its transparent and pathetic.
" Anonymous said...
orthomom, stop trying to be dovbear. Its transparent and pathetic. "
What? This is a classic Om post. As a matter of fact, feel like she's even done this exact post before, but it doesn't show up in a search.
This blog lacks any tolerence or appreciation for being in America or the big melting pot this country is.
The sacrifices of our US Service men to protect our religious freedom of beliefs should be admired.
We should should all be very thankful that most of us survived 9/11 & pray we never ever see antthing
that or more horific in the USA ever again
Apparently, all Bais Yaakovs have always had school on Thankgiving. However, TAG has always given the full weekend off. Last year, I guess someone got it into the school administration's heads that in order to be on par with an actual Bais Yaakov (which has always been important to TAG), they should probably start conforming to the BY standard of giving half a day.
Do you mean NY Bais Yaakovs? Because BY Baltimore has had off Thanksgiving Day and Friday for 30+ years.
"This blog lacks any tolerence or appreciation for being in America or the big melting pot this country is.
The sacrifices of our US Service men to protect our religious freedom of beliefs should be admired.
We should should all be very thankful that most of us survived 9/11 & pray we never ever see antthing
that or more horific in the USA ever again"
How you got that from her post I do not know...
Although my son had 1/2 day on Thursday, we took him out of school so he could pick up his bubby, and spend time with her. His father made an effort to learn a few mishnayos with him. Lastly, before we commenced our Thanksgiving dinner, my family and guests read Mizmor L'Toda together, and during dinner a point was made to discuss the great gift of religious freedom. Sometimes we Orthoamericans must be independent thinkers and make decisions that our blackhatters choose to, unfortunately, often denigrate.
Orthomom,
As an American, I am thankful for the freedom the men and women in Iraq are providing. I am thankful we got to vote a democratic congress in. I am thankful, Bush will be out of office in two years. I am overjoyed I get to write my opinions on this web site, even though I am not in the majority. The beauty of this country is you do not have to send your kids to school on Thanksgiving, it is your right. It is also your right to tell ALL the religous leaders that Thanksgiving is a time to be thankful for all the things we have in this country, one of which being not having to send your children to school. I find it funny you were being attacked about this. Your opinion may not be what the general public agrees with, but it also is a freedom this wonderful country allows. Perhaps those who don't agree can move.
Orthomom, I hate to say this, but schools, private schools get funding from the state for being in school for a certain number of days. Half a day counts. Could it be that maybe a requirement is being used at an opportunity to fufill days?
It’s an embarrassment that we have so many of those “right wing” yeshivot in this neighborhood that don’t recognize – or even acknowledge – Thanksgiving or any other American holiday. These are probably the same schools that wouldn’t even think of saying a prayer for American soldiers or the US government. Of course, these same people have no problem taking advantage of everything this country has to offer.
Hypocritical? That’s the least of it.
No particular reason. I called him OrthoDad earlier in the post as well. And no, when he watches the kids, I don't call it "babysitting". (Though I actually think he does...)
I think it's a guy thing to call watching their own kids, "babysitting"...
Frankly, I find it silly and counterproductive for the Yeshivot to purposely ignore national holidays such as Thanksgiving. It's just one less item that those kids will have in their store of knowledge that they might really need someday in the future (perhaps on an SAT exam or something like that, or even in real life after they leave school).
To me, it seems like just another thing that the Torah-VeTorah crowd is shoving down the throats of the Torah-UhMadah crowd.
yeezy
air max 270
yeezy boost 350
nike air force
longchamp bags
jordan shoes
hermes handbags bag
air force 1
converse outlet
curry 6
Post a Comment
<< Home