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Wednesday, January 03, 2007

R' Billet Speaks Out on the GG Affair

I have two minutes between meetings, so I don't have time to comment, but here is the Jewish Weeks' latest dispatch on the Gourmet Glatt affair. The key quote is from Vaad member R' Billet, who speaks quite frankly about the course of events:
Rabbi Billet said the “Vaad was under instructions from its lawyer not to talk because of a possible lawsuit” by the Bolenders. But Matathias, the college professor from Woodmere, said in an open letter that the “Vaad should come out of its shadowy existence to confront regular, and insistent, public scrutiny of its operations.” And he said it should welcome other kashrut agencies.

“Competition is good, not only in the political arena but also, especially, in the marketplace,” he said. “In taking this last step, the Vaad would be seen not blackballing a store, but courageously making an effort to restore its good name while removing the black mark.”

Rabbi Billet agreed that the “Vaad has a lot to learn and missteps were made. The whole organization has to take stock in how we did, and we have to be in touch with our lawyer because we are dealing with issues of libel and restraint of trade. We’re walking a fine line, but there are better ways of doing things like this where the community would feel less in the dark. … You learn from your experiences.”
Discuss.

176 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

that is funny...the vaad has a lot to learn, but a family owned business of 25 years is now out of business due to the Vaad's learning curve?? how disgusting is that?

2:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

in addition,, the vaad was told not to speak due to possible lawsuits by the bolenders...of course the vaad should not be speaking since what they were saying was untrue and slanderous... not a kashrus issue as stated directly by RYE....

2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't really feel that sorry for them, even if the vaad was misguided. Based on the reported purchase price, they seem to have made out like bandits.

2:31 PM  
Blogger Debomachine said...

Yeah, the GG had no problem with the monopoly when it suited their needs. I say if you ride the bull, then you have to accept that you'll get bucked.

3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I can't really feel that sorry for them, even if the vaad was misguided. Based on the reported purchase price, they seem to have made out like bandits.

2:31 PM

You obviously know nothing about business...so here is the reality....two months of no business but plenty of bills = mega debt...mega debt + the cost of the renovations = mega,mega debt.. deduct from the supposed great price offered for a "fire sale" and yu get basically "bupkis". these bupkis has to feed at least 4 families and taxes and now half of them have NO INCOME AND NO FUTURE EARNINGS. Put yourself or ORTHODAD in that position and see how it feels.

3:07 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

The use of "fire sale" recalls the joke of two Jews meeting and asking each other how their business year went. Yankle says he had a fire but he had insurance so there was no loss. Shimmie says that he had a flood that destroyed his business but he had insurance so there was no loss. Yankle looks at Shimmie in disbelief and asks: how'd you arrange a flood?

Anyway, Hehsie Billet would be the one with a bit nmore courage as he is a strong Yesha supporter. Probably has it in his character.

3:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

of course the vaad should not be speaking since what they were saying was untrue and slanderous...

Your logic is faulty. All it means is that a lawyer, in an excericse of caution, thought that giving more detail wouldn't be worth the risk of a lawsuit. You know, sometimes people sue even if they don't have a claim.

3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

R'Billet is one of the few normal rabbis left in the 5twns.

4:03 PM  
Blogger The Town Crier said...

Bottom line:
If people trust a vaad to certify an establishment
then they must also trust their judgement when they choose not to.

4:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
that is funny...the vaad has a lot to learn, but a family owned business of 25 years is now out of business due to the Vaad's learning curve?? how disgusting is that?


While I agree that the VAAD palyed dirty, selling for 7-8 mill is not out of business

4:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

veryannonymous says:
How come almost everyone I spoke to agreed that the Bolender's business ethics left a very lot to be desired???? I'm sorry for all the loshen horah this action has forced on this lovely community, BUT GG deserves everything it got, and yes, don't cry, they were rewarded nicely--no matter what nonsence you hear!!
Yes, the VAAD did not necessarily handle this the way most people would have preferred, but nonetheless if we do not give them and all our Rabbonim our 100% backing, than our community will become like Flatbush/Boro Park where every store has to have 3-6 hechsharim-- WE WILL PAY MUCH MORE AND SUFFER THAT WAY!

4:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only a very dense person would presume that by saying what he said here, Rabbi Billet is saying that the Vaad shouldn't have done what they did. Especially with the fact that he mentions in the same breath that there are potential libel proceedings. What it is clear he is saying here is that the manner in which the Vaad did this might have been a mistake. Does anyone really believe that a day after they Vaad has taken over, taht R Billet woudl be coming with the opinion that VAad was wrong in getting rid of the Bolenders? if someone believes that they obviously don't know R Billet. All he is saying is that the episode might have been mishandles from a PR perspectyive.Which may be nice to hear from him, but not something that is surprising to any of us.

4:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"

that is funny...the vaad has a lot to learn, but a family owned business of 25 years is now out of business due to the Vaad's learning curve?? how disgusting is that? "

If you believe that that is what r Biloelt is saying here youre too stupid too ex[lain reality to.

4:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BUT GG deserves everything it got, and yes, don't cry, they were rewarded nicely--no matter what nonsence you hear!!

Because of anonymity we don't know who you are or what business you are in, but if Hashem "tests" you next, how would you feel if "you got what you deserved" and then some. Ease up already, Hashem is the only judge, and I am sure there will be more truths to come out aside from Rabbi Billet.

4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just the fact that Rabbi Billet spoke to the Jewish Week about this after all the secrecy is question enough.

4:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, I am concerned about Rabbi Pincus because he is an innocent bystander as much as Rabbi Chait was. The GG issue is over and should be put to rest but the VAAD issue isn't. There are many concerns that arose here and should be addressed before another disaster happens. Point in quesion. If Savitsky claims that that the VAAd should be funded by the community, and why he needs more than the $100,000 that the establishments already generate I don't personally understand, since the mashgichim generate their own salaries vis a vis the establishments they work for, then he has an obligation to this community to answer the questions we have and explain how exactly the VAAD is set up and run.

Let me explain something in regard to other institutions who claim to be community based and community related. There was a local Yeshiva that closed recently who "claimed" to be a community yeshiva as all the others do. They kept coming back to the community for finacial and moral support. Yet when I had to go in and advocate for a local child there was no one to talk to. The administration was so closed minded and had absolutely no respect for any of the Rabbonim here in the community. They ran they Yeshiva as they felt and answered to no one. There were no checks and balances set forth and they were extremely difficutl to make headway with. It was only at the point that I threatened to write an article in the 5 towns paper, that they finally backed off from the child. Again, when I asked for assistance from local Rabbonim, I was told that the administration of this school did not RESPECT the authority of any of the community Rabbonim. This came from a local RAV in the community the school claimed to be part of. They of course are not the only ones to say they are a community school and then proceed to reject the community children for whatever reasons they can come up with.

My point being, it is really chutzpadik to claim to be a community organization, demanding community funds, chizuk and support yet telling the community to mind there own business when it comes to imparting information or explaining how the organization is set up and run. If it is a regular business and its transactions are between their clients/customers, vis as vis the stores who hire them and themselves, then they are correct. It is not our concern. However, when they reach into our pockets and demand that we pay "dues and donations" to this same organization, then we have a right and an obligation to check them out and make sure that everything is run as proper and as above board as any tzedaka or shul organization in the neighborhood.

I am not an accountant or lawyer, but I have over 25 years of experience as an office manager and bookkeeper, as well as working in yeshivas, an accounting firm and setting up my own organization. Most of the members of my family are CPA's and many are deeply involved in chessed. You just can't have it both ways. I would ask that some of the professionals in this community, CPA's and Lawyers, step up to the plate and form a committee to check into this. I would be happy to serve on the committee as well, but I am deeply rooted into helping children, and cannot organize and head such a committee. The committee should hold an open forum for the community to gather all the questions they have and then meet with the President of the VAAD, Mr. Steve Savitzky to address these issues. We cannot have a VAAD that should be held up to the highest standards of Halacha and Kashrus, demanding that we all follow the highest standards of Halacha, yet portray to the community that they are not following the Laws of the Land.

In addition, it is a conflict of interest to have the stores pay the mashgichim directly. In this particular incident with GG and this can happen again in any store, the Rabbonim might have felt that a mashgiach who is paid by the owner of the store might have loyalty to that person. In that case would he really be capable of giving truthful and honest "eidus", eyewitness testimony. If a mashgiach cannot be trusted to give "eidus", how can we trust him to uphold kashrus? If he is not honest in one area how can we expect him to be honest in another. The mashgichim can have only one loyalty and that is to the VAAD, therefore in my humble opinion, they should be getting paid directly from the VAAD, so there is no chance of conflict of interest and they have no feelings of loyalty to their employers, the store owners, because then they would truly have only one employer and that would be the VAAD.

I am not looking to start a new conflict here. I am looking to settle a situation that has come to light. We cannot bury it under the rug and it has nothing to do with RYE, that is a totally different issue that needs to be addressed and should be addressed privately and personally to each RAV by any individual that has an opinion on the subject. However, if the Five Towns wishes to uphold the standards of community, continuity, Kashrus and achdus. We should really make sure that the VAAD lives up to OUR standards.

Sherree

4:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why is billet the spokesman for anyone?

6:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is Sherree so consumed with this?

6:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sherree, I agree with you only to a point. As a donations-accepting-entity, I think that the community definitely has a right to know the broad financial workings of the Vaad, their Halachic guidelines, their policies/procedures etc.
But I think it would be a travesty for them to make public any information regarding specific establishments, other than certifying them or not. The business owners have a right to a certain amount of privacy. It's like the old adage about not wanting to know how your government or your sausages are made. We do not need to know every detail of negotiations b/w the Vaad and any given business.
If that is not satisfactory, we too have the option of voting with our wallets. We can choose to shop at places that have Hechsherim other than the Vaad, and tell the proprieters why.

7:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

five towns people

you are all sick......... sick........

7:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

five towns people

you are all sick......... sick........

Who the h*ll are u??

7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my name is chaya!!!

got a problem?

8:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my name is chaya!!!

got a problem?

Yes, with self rightious holy rollers who sterotype people. And those violate our hosts request for civility.

Other than that I am sure u are a really great person.

8:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so now we all determined that kosher is the in thing, doesn't it mean clean? so i think the vaad should pull its hashgacha from super sol because that is one filthy disgusting place.

9:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes Respect the community, lets all respectfully tell Rabbi Eisen to pack his bags and get the h-ll out of town.

9:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

let all the raabonim come out the same way rabbi billet did and say the truth.

in the zchus of emes may hashem help our entire community.

amen vamen!!!

9:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Bottom line:
If people trust a vaad to certify an establishment
then they must also trust their judgement when they choose not to."

I dont think that people were questioning whether the vaads choice to pull the hechser. in factr if youy read the posts people were not questioning that---they were questioning the call for a boycott and the way the whole ruccis was handled.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...And now there is no parking again at GG...:(

10:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...And now there is no parking again at GG...:(

10:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-----------------------------------------------------

New Secretary-General to Fill 2 U.N. Posts This Week, Could Bring Controversy

10:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But I think it would be a travesty for them to make public any information regarding specific establishments, other than certifying them or not. The business owners have a right to a certain amount of privacy.

I agree with you and never ever said that anything between any given establishment should be made public. However, once the VAAD had already made certain inuendos public as in the case with GG, the community had a right to have their questions answered. Had they not made a pulic statement eluding to questionable issues, there would not have been a public discussion and public interest in the debate.

RYE brought the public into it with his very carefully crafted and chosen wording and it left the field wide open.

Establishments do have the right to privacy and that was supposed to be one of the premises of the VAAD. However, RYE did not keep to that agreement in the case with GG. He discussed their personal religious standards in public, he spoke about his "fat file" and other issues that should have, as you yourself mentioned, remained private between the VAAD and the establishment.

The VAAD has to establish rules and regulations that they will abide by for all their clients and stick with it. They have to have standardized rules for the establishments as well and they must stick to it. This isn't school and you can't play favorites.

Sherree

One more thing, to anon 6:37, I am not consumed with this. This has been the worst role modeling for our children and that steps into my arena. Our children can see hypocricy a mile away. I would like to do what I can to see that this doesn't happen again. The kids who know me, know that I stand up for what I believe in, and I do my utmost to be the best role model I can be for them.

11:19 PM  
Blogger Yid With Lid said...

Well orthomom as usual I saw it differently when I posted about it
After all these months the vaad admitted that they were probably wrong to keep things secret. And that it had nothing to do with Kashrut. Exactly what I have been saying since Oct. Oh and you left out the Good Rabbi;s loshen Hora. take a read , the entire article, as well as ashers letter and the Rabbi from OJC sermon is all posted on yidwithlid

1:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yid:

I think you don't know R Billet if you think he is admiting there are no Kashrut violations. Where is the world did he say that? Not in this article. Also, just because R Billet says that they were wrobg to keep things secret doesn't make him right. I don't personally think that every detail of the Vaad's negotiations and dealings are required to be transparent. There is a lot at stake.

Also, you quote Asher Matthias as if hes some community expert. He's just one guy. Why would I care about what one individual says when my whole community supports the vaad? I wouldn;t expect Asher to support the Vaad. Being as he is conservative, he isn't under the guidance of an Orthodox Rav to support. So he is expcted to have a diferent take on this than most Orthodox residents here.

8:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IF the vaad was instructed by their lawyers not to comment on the case then the rabbis should have just said so. That is a very common answer and is tottaly acceptable. It was their silence and the fact that they just didnt say "no comment" that aroused al the suspicuion and ill will.

9:59 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

anon 9:59 - On the other hand, saying "my lawyer said not to comment" can make it look (especially to those unfmiliar with how lawyers generally approach these things) like there is something nefarious to hide that would cause legal trouble if it got out. There was some debate within the Vaad over whether to put information out or not - and there are good arguments for both positions. Ultimately, however, how much information to release was a tactical question and has no bearing on the propriety of the Vaad's decision to decertify the store and demand that the ownership change.

10:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anon 10:30:
While I understand your point, a response of "no comment" goes alot further than no reply whatsoever. "No comment" simply means that you are not at liberty to discuss it.Not offering any response at all implies that you are ignoring the situation and ignoring or disregarding the community's desires for communication.How many parents in torah temimah were frustrated that the yeshivah did not have any comments in their abuse episode? The yeshivah could have said "no comment" rather then remain silent as they did.It took the public expose and $30 million lawsuits to get their lawyer to just acknowledge the parent's concerns. My point: giving the impression that you are ignoring an issue is much worse and creates more tension and conflict then simply saying "I cant talk about it" when you are unable to do so.Simple business savvy tells you that when you owe somebody an answer on an issue but dont have it yet you should call them and say i am working on it but dont have an answer yet.This COMMUNICATES that you are working on whatever it is but need some more time.Simply ignoring the client/coworker/boss/concerned party until you have the answer gives the impression that they are being ignored and their concern/need/issue/problem is not important. In short the communication here was terrible and everybody can learn from this the importance of open communication and acknowledging the concerned parties even if you cant tell them what they want to hear.

11:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's amazing to me how many of you have decided that you know what "really" went on with Gourmet Glatt and how quickly you dismiss all of the rabbis in the five towns area and assume that they all have some sort of agenda. Why do we turn to these rabbis to begin with in all other aspects of our lives if we think they are all a bunch of fakers? It's disgusting to me how much bashing has been going on in relation to the VAAD and how so many people have just given all of these rabbis, all of whom devote their lives to their communities, absolutely no benefit of the doubt; perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, they were constrained by halacha and the law and stayed quiet about the many very improper things that were going on at Gourmet Glatt due precisely to the fact that they care more about following halacha than just looking out for themselves. MAYBE it is more important to them to do the right thing from a halachik point of view than print the entire dossier on Gourmet Glatt in the Jewish newspapers only to clear their own names. Yes, they could have handled it better, and PR is not the best thing they have going for them, but GIVE IT A BREAK ALREADY!! If you don't respect your rabbanim and feel thet they are a bunch of fakers and hypocrites, then you should be looking inside yourselves to figure out what your real issues are.

12:09 PM  
Anonymous Fox said...

In addition to the public relations angle discussed by Anon at 11:48, the release by the Vaad that referred to the need to ensure a single supervising agency was a major blunder, imho.

It may or may not be an advantage for Five Towns residents to be able to rely on a single hechsher -- that's for them to decide. But addressing that in the same document and as part of their response to a specific establishment just looks self-serving, and adding an exhortation to the community to reject additional hechsherim looks even worse.

So they may have been 100 percent right in their supervision -- I don't know -- but the statement they issued gave plenty of legitimate ammunition to their opposition.

12:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give me link to SEO software (promotion, advertisement, etc.). I'm need it to promote my new e-shop.
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12:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bottom line:
If people trust a vaad to certify an establishment
then they must also trust their judgement when they choose not to."

I dont think that people were questioning whether the vaads choice to pull the hechser. in factr if youy read the posts people were not questioning that---they were questioning the call for a boycott and the way the whole ruccis was handled.

10:06 PM

ah the daas torah forum surfaces once again.

1:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anon 12:09:
The people were not questioning their individual rabbanim--they were questioning the vaad, an organization that their rabbanim are part of.Benefit of the doubt is and was given to the rabbanim.it was not given to the vaad. you must see the difference between the two.

1:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Benefit of the doubt is and was given to the rabbanim.it was not given to the vaad. you must see the difference between the two."

The VAAD is made up of those rabbanim, that's what it is, an organization basically made up of rabbanim and a couple of laypeople. The rabbanim got all the information and made an informed, joint decision, about what was to be done. Don't split hairs on this, they are one and the same.

2:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although the vaad is made up of the community rabbanim,i dont think all the rabbanim are involved in the daily operation and may have gone along with the information they were given by other vaad members who they felt they could rely on. I think thet people went along with the boycott out of respect to their own rav and not respect to the vaad as a whole.

3:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

when my whole community supports the vaad?

?????????????? That's a false statement.

4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If people trust a vaad to certify an establishment
then they must also trust their judgement when they choose not to."


Yes and because of what happened in BROOKLYN followed up with what happened in MONSEY, that is a big IF. The vaad does not equate to the Rabbonim, the Rabbonim happen to be on the board of the vaad but they don't run it.

4:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rabbanim got all the information and made an informed, joint decision, about what was to be done. Don't split hairs on this, they are one and the same.


Actually, the Rabbonim did not get "ALL" the information. The Rabbonim got all the infomation that RYE wanted them to have and see. The Rabbonim did not investigate further probably because the way that RYE had set up the mashgichim. He put them in a situation where there is a conflict of interest. The way it is set up is that the mashgichim get paid directly from the store owners, therefore it is questionable who exactly their boss really is. Is it the Vaad that they work for or is it the store? Who is their employer? Is it the one who pays them therefore who should they be loyal to?

If the mashgiach can not be trusted to be a witness and give eidus because there is a conflict of interest and he might have loyalty to his boss, the store owner who pays him, then how can we trust that he is honest enough to follow "ALL" the rules of kashrus. You just can't have it both ways. The mashgichim are either honest and trustworthy or not. They are either honest enough to give eidus or they are not honest enough to be a mashgiach.

Just my Humble Opinion,
Sherree

4:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would you give it up already? The Bolenders made $8 million, the store is packed with customers again, and everyone has moved on. What could possibly be eating you up now?

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who cares about the mashgichim.

i just came back from the gg and a friend of mine told me that zomicks is moving in?

i can't beleive that they are doing this to the heimish challah guy..

6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would you give it up already? The Bolenders made $8 million, the store is packed with customers again, and everyone has moved on. What could possibly be eating you up now?

OK, how good are you at Math and accounting. Do you have a mortgage on your home? What is $8,000,000 (if that is really the price) after taxes, subtract the loans that covered the payroll when no money was coming in and they didn't fire not even one employee. Then subtract the loans they still had to pay for the renovations of the store, then divide it by four and then see how long it will provide for the family considering yeshiva tuitiions home mortgages and alimony for Mark. What is the bottom line you come up with genius?

6:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, maybe you shouldn't believe everything you hear.

6:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

maybe the bolanders should file for UNEMPLOYMENT........

maybe they are eligible

7:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where do their kids go to yeshiva?

7:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
or maybe the bolanders shall go to...... h.......

7:11 PM

and you call yourself a frum jew?? you are a disgrace to our religion.

7:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
who cares about the mashgichim.

i just came back from the gg and a friend of mine told me that zomicks is moving in?

i can't beleive that they are doing this to the heimish challah guy..


inside info....leibie and ruchy were promised, yes, promised, by RYE that nothing would EVER be done to harm their parnassah.. ask Ruchy what happened when the boycott was put into effect... RYE would not accept her phone calls.. nor would he accept the phone calls of williamburg rabbonim that sought to help her and her husband... speak to leiby..he is not under any gag order.

7:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
who cares about the mashgichim.

i just came back from the gg and a friend of mine told me that zomicks is moving in?

i can't beleive that they are doing this to the heimish challah guy..


inside info....leibie and ruchy were promised, yes, promised, by RYE that nothing would EVER be done to harm their parnassah.. ask Ruchy what happened when the boycott was put into effect... RYE would not accept her phone calls.. nor would he accept the phone calls of williamburg rabbonim that sought to help her and her husband... speak to leiby..he is not under any gag order.

7:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Which Bolender did the vaad take issue with? Is the one that's managing the store now (on the cover of the paper) or is he no longer working there?

7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

leiby from willy and chezky from BP?

7:58 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

I cannot believe we are here again, but I will warn everyone here AGAIN:

Any comments that go over the bounds of propriety about ANY of the parties involved in this dispute will be summarily deleted. I have already started deleting, and will continue to do so if some of you guys continue to show yourselves unable conform to some basic tenets of civility.

Behave like people, please.

8:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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8:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Which Bolender did the vaad take issue with? Is the one that's managing the store now (on the cover of the paper) or is he no longer working there?

7:57 PM
on the cover of which paper? i must have missed it.

8:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"leibie and ruchy were promised, yes, promised, by RYE that nothing would EVER be done to harm their parnassah"

That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard thus far (and this entire episode has been nonstop ridiculous). How can a vaad make any assertion like that? Were they expected to relinquish their kashrus authority to GG and to provide a certification on Bolender's terms just because doing their job could adversely affect Leiby and Ruchy?

8:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"leibie and ruchy were promised, yes, promised, by RYE that nothing would EVER be done to harm their parnassah"

That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard thus far (and this entire episode has been nonstop ridiculous). How can a vaad make any assertion like that? Were they expected to relinquish their kashrus authority to GG and to provide a certification on Bolender's terms just because doing their job could adversely affect Leiby and Ruchy?

8:21 PM

no, leiby and ruchy were told in no uncertain terms that kashrus was not the issue and that he, RYE, would make sure their business would not suffer. Take it any way you wish.

8:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How absurd!

If RYE made a ridiculous commitment to Leiby and Ruchy to put their personal interest before those of the community, then RYE was clearly out of line. And even in the unlikely chance that RYE or someone else from the Vaad made such a statement (which more likely a misquote or mischaracterization), then Leiby and Ruchy are clearly out of line for believing that he would put their interests before the community's.

And wasn't the decision to pull the hechsher made by the unanimous agreement of (most of) the community's rabbis anyway?

8:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One thing is for certain.

Leiby and Ruchy definitely would not want anyone quoting them or mentioning their names or badmouthing the vaad in their names on this blog.

So whoever brought this subject up is completely out of line.

8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dont take my word..ask leiby and ruchy.

8:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't understand why everyone insists that this was not a kashrus issue. It seems to me that it was, and that that is why the Vaad got involved in censuring them to begin with. This was a business where the owners were willing to mislabel chicken in order to trick the customer into paying for something they weren't actually buying. The chicken said Empire, yet it wasn't Empire chicken; and it wasn't a mistake. Once a proprietor of a kosher establishment willfully mislabels meat, he is no longer trustworthy. If he is willing to lie to make a quick dollar - taking YOUR money out of YOUR pocket - who is to say the chicken will always be kosher? What was going on at the Gourmet Glatt was highly unethical; it seems like outright theft to me. Yet everyone is angry at the Vaad, and feeling bad for the Bolenders?! Perhaps the real mistake the Vaad made was in not pulling their hechsher immediately. That mistake would have been fueled by compassion (perhaps misguided); and yet so many people are accusing the Vaad of being hard-hearted homewreckers.

9:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction -

not "so many people" are accusing the Vaad of wrongdoing

9:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In my experience, the majority of people who bring this issue up as a topic of conversation have something bad to say about the Vaad. The numbers might not turn out to be a majority (I never said it was), but there are many many people bad-mouthing the Vaad.

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I don't understand why everyone insists that this was not a kashrus issue. It seems to me that it was, and that that is why the Vaad got involved in censuring them to begin with. This was a business where the owners were willing to mislabel chicken in order to trick the customer into paying for something they weren't actually buying. The chicken said Empire, yet it wasn't Empire chicken; and it wasn't a mistake. Once a proprietor of a kosher establishment willfully mislabels meat, he is no longer trustworthy. If he is willing to lie to make a quick dollar - taking YOUR money out of YOUR pocket - who is to say the chicken will always be kosher? What was going on at the Gourmet Glatt was highly unethical; it seems like outright theft to me. Yet everyone is angry at the Vaad, and feeling bad for the Bolenders?! Perhaps the real mistake the Vaad made was in not pulling their hechsher immediately. That mistake would have been fueled by compassion (perhaps misguided); and yet so many people are accusing the Vaad of being hard-hearted homewreckers.

9:06 PM

so, you are the one with the mythical chicken?? because, to date, NO ONE has ever seen the chicken that started it all....how could anyone know definitively about mislabeling when not even the vaad has seen the chicken. nor will they ever since it now seems it never existed... and even if there was a mislabeled chicken...all the chickens were taken in by the vaad mashgiachim (NO ONE AT GG).. and they were all approved kosher chickens. are you so naive to think that mistakes never happen??? after all, the butchers are only human arent they??? or do you know something no one else does??

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Sabra Foods said...

Yes,Chaim Bolender is managing the entire store .If the store is to exist as present I believe only he is the only capable person of returning GG to its past glory and further growth.I truly hope he stays.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I don't understand why everyone insists that this was not a kashrus issue. It seems to me that it was, and that that is why the Vaad got involved in censuring them to begin with. This was a business where the owners were willing to mislabel chicken in order to trick the customer into paying for something they weren't actually buying. The chicken said Empire, yet it wasn't Empire chicken; and it wasn't a mistake. Once a proprietor of a kosher establishment willfully mislabels meat, he is no longer trustworthy. If he is willing to lie to make a quick dollar - taking YOUR money out of YOUR pocket - who is to say the chicken will always be kosher? What was going on at the Gourmet Glatt was highly unethical; it seems like outright theft to me. Yet everyone is angry at the Vaad, and feeling bad for the Bolenders?! Perhaps the real mistake the Vaad made was in not pulling their hechsher immediately. That mistake would have been fueled by compassion (perhaps misguided); and yet so many people are accusing the Vaad of being hard-hearted homewreckers.

9:06 PM

so, you are the one with the mythical chicken?? because, to date, NO ONE has ever seen the chicken that started it all....how could anyone know definitively about mislabeling when not even the vaad has seen the chicken. nor will they ever since it now seems it never existed... and even if there was a mislabeled chicken...all the chickens were taken in by the vaad mashgiachim (NO ONE AT GG).. and they were all approved kosher chickens. are you so naive to think that mistakes never happen??? after all, the butchers are only human arent they??? or do you know something no one else does??

9:18 PM

Relax.

9:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is Chaim the same person as Mark? Who was the one that had the personality conflict with the vaad?

9:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no, chaim is also known as craig..

9:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 9:18 RIGHT ON THE MONEY! There was no mislabeling of chickens whatsoever-ask the Mashgiach he is still there.The allegations were from RYE all a fabrication.thats why the Vaad needs a high powered legal defense.

9:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

just call me "Deep Gagele"

9:41 PM  
Anonymous mali leki hua said...

There are three sides to every story who knows what transpired with the Vaad GG & Kravitz.

Seems everybody is upset about the Vaad how they handed themselved etc....

Should the Vaad have said
"well we did not catch you serving treife" so you get a slap on the wrist. " we know you need the parnosah we understand"

A mashgiach has so much to watch so much to do how comfortable could the Vaad be comfortable with GG after learning that they switched product labels.

If the Chins on Rckwy Tpk put a bottle of Glenlivet 12 in a 30 year box there would be a riot.

If 5 town tova bought a burberry scarf for her 6 mnth old paid $400.00 for it and then found out it was a made in china fake ..it would be the end of the world.

If you bought a hat and the label says Borsalino and then you found out that it is a Lakewood imitation the big guns!..My goodness get out town

Is label switching on kosher chicken anything less?? or far worse?

how long did GG get away with this scam?
why did they even think of the label switch?

It is like the Monsey butcher saying in his driveling sob letter
"only a small ammount of treife was sold as kosher"...yeah like we can really trust anything you say you beheimah.

9:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are plenty of reasons to question the virtue of the Vaad's actions during the course of this fiasco. But to suggest that the Vaad fabricated the story about a mislabled chicken is really beyond the pale.

It's one thing for Bolender to question why he wasn't given an opportunity to see the chicken. But to accuse the Vaad of making it up is juvenile and extremely disrespectful to the rabbis who stand behind the vaad.

9:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how long did GG get away with this scam?
why did they even think of the label switch?


once again, for those who have difficulty with english....there was never a mislabeled chicken shown to have been bought at GG. Ask RYE to see the proof of mislabeling before you accuse anyone of such a heinous crime.

9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
There are plenty of reasons to question the virtue of the Vaad's actions during the course of this fiasco. But to suggest that the Vaad fabricated the story about a mislabled chicken is really beyond the pale.



no one has ever said THE VAAD made it up.. only that why was RYE the only one to have supposedly seen the chicken???

9:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

once again, for those who have difficulty with english....there was never a mislabeled chicken shown to have been bought at GG. Ask RYE to see the proof of mislabeling before you accuse anyone of such a heinous crime.

you know the story about the call to empire re: cornish hens ..cmon

PS is it heinous or hiyeanous

10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

empire may be in the midst of a lawsuit for slander due to the supposed chicken,,, apparently, they did schochet differently at a sub contracting facility that they never disclosed to the public..so, the plot thickens.

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

empire may be in the midst of a lawsuit for slander due to the supposed chicken,,, apparently, they did schochet differently at a sub contracting facility that they never disclosed to the public..so, the plot thickens.

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Gimmel said...

If the Chins on Rckwy Tpk put a bottle of Glenlivet 12 in a 30 year box there would be a riot.

If 5 town tova bought a burberry scarf for her 6 mnth old paid $400.00 for it and then found out it was a made in china fake ..it would be the end of the world.


What would be even worse than the above is if Lazer Lawrence poured Glen 15 into a bottle of Glen 30 and served it.

or if 5 towns Tova told her freinds at bais scull and bones that she paid $400.00 for the burberry scarf for her 4 month old at was really a fake like her watch and purse.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's equally disgusting to suggest that RYE made it up and duped all of the rabbis, motivating them to pull the hechser.

Whether Bolender likes it or not, the reason for a hechsher is that the community's kashrus interests are pitted against the storeowner's pecuniary interests. So when the kashrus authority finds fault in the store's kashrus, the storeowner is entitled to disagree with the authority's assessment, but there's no logical reason for the community to ascribe more credibility to the storeowner (motivated by personal pecuniary interests) than the kashrus authority (accountable to community for upholding kashrus standards).

It doesn't make a difference if it's rabbi eisen's assessment or the assessment of 35 rabbis. The storeowner's credibility will never hold a candle to that of the vaad, so long as there are financial implications for the storeowner.

10:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well said.

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... and if you believe that GG's only infraction was the label switcheroo, I have a bridge to sell you.

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 10:12 Watch and see the next victim of Eisen or maybe Eisen will be out by then.

8:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What makes everybody believe there was ever a "file". I hope GG will expose the "file"

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8am, seriously, what motivation could Eisen have possibly had? GG's fees to the Vaad have to be in the tens of thousands of dollars range. What motivation could he possibly have had to want to shut down one of his biggest clients, and incur the wrath of the community? Do you seriously think he's looking for more "victims"? What could he possibly gain from shutting down Kosher food establishments in the Five Towns? Seriously.

8:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Anon 8am, seriously, what motivation could Eisen have possibly had? GG's fees to the Vaad have to be in the tens of thousands of dollars range. What motivation could he possibly have had to want to shut down one of his biggest clients, and incur the wrath of the community? Do you seriously think he's looking for more "victims"? What could he possibly gain from shutting down Kosher food establishments in the Five Towns? Seriously.

8:27 AM


wait and see...now store owners will feel the "need" to "schtup" even when not asked. they wont want to wind up like GG.

8:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The issue is, RYE was fed up with GG. The reason was never disclosed as to why. He found a pretext to go public and now it appears that Empire may not have been so honest either.

Lets see how it plays out.

8:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would you give it up already? The Bolenders made $8 million, the store is packed with customers again, and everyone has moved on. What could possibly be eating you up now?


And what is eating you up? Why does a sale of $8,000,000 mean so much to you? What is bugging you, why do you think that is soooooooooooooooooo much money that they walked away whistling dixie? Grow up. This is not over for them nor is it over for us. Because what happened to them can happen to any establishment in the Five Towns if things are not put into check and corrected.

If you know anything about business, the store probably could have generated that much money in less than a year, so how is that a good deal?

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why don't all of you "educated" consumers call Empire at 1-800-EMPIRE4 and ask if they produce all their poultry on premises. As about their "deal" with G and G Poultry-also known as Natures Best. You might find out that Empire is NOT "the name you can trust" Any courageous enough to investigate? I already have and know the answers-Empire should be worried...very worried.

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

by the way, for all you supposed know it alls out there....the deal was never near 8 million... and as the other blogger said.. that is a pittance to what it would have been worth prior to RYE. The forced sale certainly did not leave the bolenders with a future source of income...plus,after debt, salaries,taxes etc.. if they walk away with 3 million it will be a lot.. the store probably grossed 15 million last year...so, why should the bolenders be upset?? also, i agree with the 9:06 post: even the vaad, with their non - disparaging and no sue clause, should still be worried about lawsuits. time will tell all.

9:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dont take my word..ask leiby and ruchy.

Haven't you realized by now, no one is asking anyone anything. Everyone will believe what they "choose" to believe. "Everyone" had the opportunity to go in the store and/or any other store and speak to any store owner and/or any mashgiach and investigate for the past 8 weeks and no one "chose" to do anything except for a very few handful of people such as myself, Rabbi Lichtman and Malkie.

No one really wants to know the "truth" for themselves. They only want to know the truth that they figure out from what they hear on this blog or from what they hear in shul, or on the street. They choose to believe what they want to believe and they make it the "TRUTH" that they know for certain.

Sherree

9:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was a business where the owners were willing to mislabel chicken in order to trick the customer into paying for something they weren't actually buying


SHOW ME THE CHICKEN!!!!!! FUNNY HOW NO ONE EVER SAW THIS MYSTERIOUS CHICKEN EXCEPT FOR RYE, NOT EVEN ONE RAV SAW IT.

9:23 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

I find it so bland to converse with Anon. Ltd.

9:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:50 anon,

yeah, and if there were a mashgiach temidi at the other two supermarkets who knows what we would find out was going on over there?

9:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It doesn't make a difference if it's rabbi eisen's assessment or the assessment of 35 rabbis. The storeowner's credibility will never hold a candle to that of the vaad, so long as there are financial implications for the storeowner.


When the vaad is basically one person, and that person has a "personal issue" not based on halacha or kashrus with a particular store owner, but based on the fact that he doesn't like his "attitude" or the fact that he believes him to be not "shomer shabbos" and therefore he is "looking" to find fault in him. That store owner has no chance and no wiggle room to be "RIGHT" in any scenario. Because this "one" man who IS the whole vaad has complete and total POWER over him and any other establishment in the neighborhood. And you sir or madam whoever you are, whith your pretensious rightious comments such as the above continue to give this ONE person the power he craves. REMEMBER AND REMEMBER WELL, the RABBONIM in this community do not run the vaad. They are simply called in when the ONE and only RAV Hamachshir wishes to call a meeting and pull one of the clients in front of the board.

Be very careful to whom you choose to give total authority, autonomy and power.

9:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... and if you believe that GG's only infraction was the label switcheroo, I have a bridge to sell you.

In any business there are issues and mistakes, when things are pointed out, mistakes are corrected. Do you think GG is the only store that has violations and errors? Grow up. What is wrong with you? Look at the other supermarkets, do you think they are supposed to be that filthy, or that products are never pulled from their shelves? It is just not publisized because RYE did not go after them and did not choose to make them his scape goat.

Wake up people, this is normal operating proceedures in business. Things happen. One day a product is kosher and the next day the OU, OK, KafK, pulls the Hechser. Things are mislabeled all the time and notices are sent out. You have to be on top of things on a hourly basis in Kashrus. Stop looking to pick, and if you want to pick start investigating the other stores as well. Are you guys frum Jews or not. Pick on everyone or be fair to everyone. This is begining to sound like a sdom and gmorah.

9:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8am, seriously, what motivation could Eisen have possibly had? GG's fees to the Vaad have to be in the tens of thousands of dollars range. What motivation could he possibly have had to want to shut down one of his biggest clients, and incur the wrath of the community? Do you seriously think he's looking for more "victims"? What could he possibly gain from shutting down Kosher food establishments in the Five Towns? Seriously.


And did he shut them down and lose business or did he make more money in the end and wind up being the cat that swallowed the canary?

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
In any business there are issues and mistakes, when things are pointed out, mistakes are corrected. Do you think GG is the only store that has violations and errors? Grow up. What is wrong with you?"

What is wrong with me? That I dont tolerate any room for error in my kashrut. Jreusalem Pizza was found to have some problems also. They gave the guy the option to sell or lose the hashgacha. he sold. am i upset at how he was treated? of course not. it shows me that the vaad (and RYE) takes the kashrut of my food seriously. thats what you who are stirring the pot dont seem to get. i hold very high standards for teh peole who are in charge of my kashrut. if the vaad says mr bolender was a barrier to that standard, even if he disputes the seriousness of that charge, im going to trust the vaad more.

no one is going to fault the vaad for having standards that are too high. thats the bottom line here. except for a conservative guy like asher matthias or a conservative rabbi from oceanside, it seems.

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know what happened to Jerusalem pizza. I personally spoke to RYE and The Bollenders, other store owners, three mashgichim, at least six Rabbonim, and Rabbi Kravitz.

Sherree

10:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

was jerusalem pizza also forced to sell after RYE put the evil eye on them?? let me know so i can put the two wronged parties together with a District attorney i know personally. malkie

12:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

was jerusalem pizza also forced to sell after RYE put the evil eye on them?? let me know so i can put the two wronged parties together with a District attorney i know personally. malkie "

trust me, the former owner from Jerusalem Pizza is not going to any district attorney. He agreed immediately to sell after he was found to be taking liberties with the Kashrut of the store. He was found to be consistently not taking challah off his dough (his non-jewish workers were ommitting that step). It was a very clear violation that he was aware of and the Vaad unanimously agreed he was not keeping standards in a trustworthy manner.

12:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for the info... so, in this case, it was truly kashrus violations....big difference from the situation at GG, where even rabbi eisen was quoted as saying KAshrus was not the issue,a contractual violation is why we are pulling the supervision. i will be speaking to the DA rep over the next two weeks anyway and i plan on giving them all the blogs, articles, old NYTIMES article about shula's, and all the current local newspaper articles.. they have informally indicated an interest. time to pursue this "mishandling" and call it what it really was....a violation of certain federal laws that not even other government agencies are above. And, for those of you who think rabbis and priests cannot be held liable for their actions, think again.

12:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Marfish Challah is a lot different then selling treif. If RYE felt that was a kashrut violatuon then he should have yanked the tudah. He didn't he gave them time to sell. So.. obviously for 3 a period of time after the demand, either he was allowing us to eat in a questionable place, or he put in sufficient staff to assure that the kashrut was acceptable. He cant have it both ways, which is the same thing he did with GG. He gave them 3 months to sell, but everything was status quo. How bad could things have been if he was willing to allowg them to operate under that cloud. Either is vadd worthy or not, there can be no middle ground, unless ther is politics.

2:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So to summarize, the theory is that R' Eisen planted a chicken, (or told a story of a chicken), so that he could escalate a conflict with GG, so he could pull their hechsher and force them to sell, to make an example of them, so that he can extort other businesses for more money. Seriously?

2:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"trust me, the former owner from Jerusalem Pizza is not going to any district attorney. He agreed immediately to sell after he was found to be taking liberties with the Kashrut of the store. He was found to be consistently not taking challah off his dough (his non-jewish workers were ommitting that step). It was a very clear violation that he was aware of and the Vaad unanimously agreed he was not keeping standards in a trustworthy manner"

Can only imagine what Jerusalem Pizza would of been doing if they weren't on R'Reismans recommended list?

2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so i get it.

Eisen and kauftheil were planning this entire episode over one year ago. so who was the shadchan?

3:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anno 2:29, you probably think kennedy was shot by a 2nd shooter.

Eisen was fed up with GG. He needed a really good rwason, he found one and it worked. Thats politics. If it was kashrut how come the store never needed a cleaning before, during or after these incidents??

3:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eisen from these blogs is to be considered a bully and throws his power around to destroy any store that he percieves as arrogant to him.In my opinion he or GG should expose the file to see if there were any infractions recently that could have led to the removal of GG hasgacha.

PS -Any investors looking to open in the 5 towns-go away before you lose your shirt!

3:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
so i get it.

Eisen and kauftheil were planning this entire episode over one year ago. so who was the shadchan?

3:13 PM


There is no evidence that there was collusion between th e two.. as a matter of fact, the original deal was to sell 51% to someone the vaad approved..that fell thru when the vaad then decided that the potential 51% buyer did not have the amount of funds available to buy GG. So the vaad said NO WAY to aaron.. that left several other suitors that GG found on their own.. the Vaad also had supersol call a Bolender immediately upon the first notice of pulling the teudah. that was a move by RYE. When it became known that supersol called to buy GG, it began to look as if RYE was pulling a fast one with GG.. GG said no way to supersol and was then forced to look at other suitors. all suitors had to meet RYE's specifications ( and you still believe RYE had no ulterior motive - I, too, have a bridge for you to buy).
please do not blame or cast suspicion on Mr. Kuftheill, he seems to be a mensch.

3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here we go again, the pro and con Eisen. Why keep battling it out. Those of you who did your research know the truth, those of you who didn't will never know and will still refuse to know.

If the DA really does get involved THEY will do the research. THEY will speak to all parties involved and to ANY one else who wishes to give testimony.

How about the person who wanted to open a francise store in the neighborhood who not only RYE refuse to give a hechsher to, but was told that if he tried to open, RYE would personally send letter out to all the shuls and there members saying that no one was allowed to eat in his store. What right does he have to do that? Just because the store would not carry his hechsher, it wouldn't make it treif. What do you think the DA would do with that testimony?

As I said, if the DA really is interested and really did check into this, ALL the truth will be discovered and this parlay of denial, defense, and accusation will all be for naught.

12:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the truth allways comes out.

sooner or later.......

hashem has a very long and strong memory.. sit back and relax let him do the work.....

12:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

your right, absolutely. Not only a strong and long memory, but also a very interesting sense of humor. We might just all have a good laugh out of this.

I am also a very big proponant of "give a person enough rope to hang themselves with and eventually they will" When a person let's too much power go to his head, and allows his ego to swell his head, the noose will tighten around his neck and it will hang him. Watch and see.

12:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I am also a very big proponant of "give a person enough rope to hang themselves with and eventually they will" When a person let's too much power go to his head, and allows his ego to swell his head, the noose will tighten around his neck and it will hang him. Watch and see."

We know you are, Shereee. You already told us that a little ways up the thread. But at least we all know now what we all strongly suspected. you leave the majority of the anonymous anti-RYE and anti-Vaad comments also.

1:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nope not the majority. Once again, you didn't do your homework, just guessing as usual.

2:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

bla bla bla bla
stop it already ok???????

7:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:57am

Eisen is that you???????

7:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

eeeeeewwwwwwwwww.........

7:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stop what? Only you can blog and say what you want and the rest of us have to keep quiet? Or only those who agree with your opinion can blog and I have to keep quiet? Which is it? Why don't you tell us who you are, so we all know why you want me to keep quiet.

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my name is Rabbi.......

2:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RYE told leiby and Ruchie ,not to sign a contract , they trust RYE and took his word ,they did not signed a contruct HA HA HA the clown is happy he got another victim ...................
a guy who trusted rye....

4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RYE told leiby and Ruchie ,not to sign a contract , they trust RYE and took his word ,they did not signed a contruct HA HA HA the clown is happy he got another victim ...................
a guy who trusted rye....

4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so whats the big dill ?
another familly without Parnasa?
with love .
rye

4:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so whats the big dill ?
another familly without Parnasa?
with love .
rye

4:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

enough already.......

can you all stop the sarcasem please....

5:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

though the above comments are meant to be tongue in cheek...the reality is that several families have lost their parnassah due to their trust of RYE. maybe the vaad should exercise the right of any employer in the state of new york and fire at will.. no severance....let RYE apply for unemployment and ruin another community when they hire him.

he has hurt our community enough. malkie

6:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

let RYE apply for unemployment

You can only apply for unemployment if you are "on the books" to begin with.

12:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Malkie,

Of course I agree with you, we have to be careful to whom you asign power and control and no one should have ABSOLUTE control.

12:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

on response to anon 12:42

the majority of the good people of the five towns HAVE, in fact, relinquished control over their own lives when they follow blindly any RAV. Ravs are not HASHEM; they are merely men who have chosen to study harder and longer than their other yeshiva brethren. longer and harder studies do not make a rabbi a rabbi..they are fallible (ie mondrowitz, kolko, tendler, friedman etc.) they fondle, murder,steal etc.. When ANYONE follows a particular person without question--the situation becomes the very definition of cult.. but, of course, we jews dont see it that way, do we?

10:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

R"Billet you o.k. but its too late the harm was done and there are victims on behalf of all rbbies who signed boycotting GG
whre were you all the past 8 weeks?
tou see now some rabbis come to GG cry ever Bolenders sholders
as if they were sorry?
???????????????
fakers............

9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

R"Billet you o.k. but its too late the harm was done and there are victims on behalf of all rbbies who signed boycotting GG
whre were you all the past 8 weeks?
tou see now some rabbis come to GG cry ever Bolenders sholders
as if they were sorry?
???????????????
fakers............

9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what you think all the news will come soon? I do not think there will be any more law suits. It looks like we will all be back to GG bliss soon. Anyway the statute of limitations on slander is just one year, so in another six months this will old news.

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

slander, maybe, i would guess more federal laws are being examined by the appropriate parties. the rabbis should still be concerned. There were so many laws broken that it will take quite a while for those interested parties to investigate. It has become apparent with Rabbi Billets speech that there were "issues" not relating to kashruth.. the forced sale or threats by RYE have not gone unnoticed.. and anyone who thinks that rabbinic corporations are exempt should be revisiting their situation with Mr. Snitow. Even though the bolenders signed NO=sue clauses, it might still be possible for them to sue since they signed all docs under duress. time will tell.......

6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

New York courts do not recognized economic duress as a valid argument to vitiate an executed "do not sue" agreement or a release. You can bet those local lawyers and Mr. Snitow got that all covered. Maybe the Bolenders should have hired better lawyers if they still wanted to sue. Let us put this all behind us and get on with our lives.

8:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

economic duress?? how about physical duress?? apparently, some physical issues arose during the saga that were directly attributed to the stress caused by rye and the vaad... i am told this is all on video and verifiable dr. reports. once again,,, time will tell. by the way,,, the bolenders were told that if they did not sign the said docs, that rye would not "approve" the prospective buyer. aha, the plot thickens!!!

8:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Rabbi Billet agreed that the “Vaad has a lot to learn and missteps were made. The whole organization has to take stock in how we did, and we have to be in touch with our lawyer because we are dealing with issues of libel and restraint of trade. We’re walking a fine line, but there are better ways of doing things like this where the community would feel less in the dark. … You learn from your experiences.”


though i am not an attorney, this statement seems to acknowledge the issues of libel and trade restraint...these are federal issues and the appropriate agencies have been made aware of this situation in the five towns. once again, i know the rabbonim feel they are exempt from federal prosecutors: maybe yes, maybe no.

8:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well the saga of GG may or may not be closed but there are the issues of all the other potential stores that applied for hashgacha that RYE mishandled or manhandled whichever applies. Each and every one of those people have the opportunity to bring those issues out into the open whether by just approaching the Rabbonim quietly in a dignified and ehrlich manner or by suing every person on the Vaad letterhead or connected to the Board. Anyone who is connected to a Rav Hamachshir who "promises" to run a person out of town if he "tries" to open up a restaurant without his hashgacha has opened up a whole new set of problesm for his Board of Directors.

12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tell that person who tried to start a business but was "discouraged" by the mafia, sorry, rye , to contact marcelle fishler at the long island division of the NYTIMES. i understand she has started to research this whole illegal and underhanded vaad operation..

1:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about RYE vetoing hashgacha of "national" franchises which are accepted by vaads throughout the country?

4:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Rabbi Schechter,

I am a resident of the Five Towns and am aware that you give hashgacha to Bagel Boss in Hewlett. Many of my neighbors have started eating there, but before I do I need to know a few things about the way the store is run.

First, it is not our intention to compete with the Vaad establishments. I recomend that if all things are equal that you that you patronize them. Quite frankly, their Kashrus standards are higher than ours.

I understand that the Rosner family is Jewish, yet they are operating on Shabbat. I have heard that there is a Shtar Mechira in place but I have also heard that the contract is between one of the owners and his non-Jewish wife. Could you please supply more information on this point?

There are a few nonjewish partners in the operation including the wife of one of the investor couples. The Rosner family does not own and operate the store for Shabbos & Yom Tov and they are not permitted to even show their faces on those days.

Also, I would like to know if challah is taken from the dough for the bagels or batter from the muffins. Who is responsible for this and is the person taking the challah shomer shabbat?

My Assistant Rabbi Yaakov Miller (a Rebbe at South Shore) takes Challah. We use the Star-K system (once per shipment).

Are vegetables such as broccoli, lettuce, scallions and such being checked for bugs?

We get quality produce (which is rarely infested) and we wash them carefully. My Assistant and I spot check them to make sure. We do not have a Mashgiach washing them or a light box, etc. I tell people who have a higher standard to avoid eating these vegetables at Bagel Boss.

Is there a Jewish person on premises to check eggs and to insure that the fires are being lit by a Jew?

All the cooking fires have pilots and my Assistant and I relight them each visit. The eggs are either frozen liquid eggs O-U or opened in the store by the workers who are trained to look for and discard those with blood spots. We spot check their adherence.

In your letter of Kashruth you maintain that the bagels, breads, rolls and other similar items can be considered pareve. Who insures that the pans for the rolls and bread are being kept separate from the pans for dairy pastries? Is there a pareve sink for these utensils? Is there a separate oven for the baking of dairy pastries and muffins?

We have a seperate Dairy oven for Dairy Pastries, etc. Most of the bread products are baked directly on the Parve oven floor. Those that need pans (Challahs and Challah Rolls) are baked on Dairy Pans that are completely covered with a thick Aluminum Foil. The Challahs remain Parve because they do not come in contact with the Dairy Pans. The Kaiser Rolls are purchased from an O-U Parve wholesale bakery. There is no need for a Parve Sink.

How often does one of your staff make an inspection of the operation?

About once every day or two.

8:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the bottom line of the gg saga.

mark bolender still in the store the vaad is back

so where does this leave us?

1:33 AM  
Anonymous RUCHY said...

ANON 1:33 I have the bakery counter @ gg and I maybe have seen Mark maybe 2 times in the last three weeks for a peroid no longer than one hour.Stop your Loshon Hora

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

craig.......... whom are you kidding?

9:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anon 1:33

If you had ay business sense you would know that a transitional period of ownership is de riguer in most small business transactions. the new owner is not a butcher,,,,mark is one of the best in the country, having been trained by his father(OBM) since he was 11 years old.. it would have been a no-brainer for the new owner to keep him for a short while to train his new staff...

however,,it does tell you that the vaad knows about it and accepted it. what that tells you is that IT NEVER WAS A KASHRUS ISSUE!!

WAKE UP FIVE TOWNS!!!!! malkie

11:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5t will never wake up ,
that the reason why the rabbies
can tell you bobkes and get away with murder .
they olso have the skill to blaim
the other guy.......
so pp just keap paying and keap your mouth shut
and go back to sleep....

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5t will never wake up ,
that the reason why the rabbies
can tell you bobkes and get away with murder .
they olso have the skill to blaim
the other guy.......
so pp just keap paying and keap your mouth shut
and go back to sleep....

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5t will never wake up ,
that the reason why the rabbies
can tell you bobkes and get away with murder .
they olso have the skill to blaim
the other guy.......
so pp just keap paying and keap your mouth shut
and go back to sleep....

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Malkie you the only one with brain.
no kashruth issues?
so what is it all about?
is it plain rabbinical madness???

4:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no, anon 4:07, it is not rabbinic madness,,,,it is about rabbinic power left unchecked by the community at large.. people will only stage an upheaval when it concerns their own issues; like a psak against movies or against haagen daas ice cream.. then, and only then, will the so called intelligent five towners wake up to the cult-like atmosphere being created in their home town. malkie

5:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MALKIE IS YOUR LAST NAME BOLENDER?

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no-Steinmetz

11:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

GEE, THANKS, 11:24. I KEPT SOMEWHAT ANON FOR A REASON...

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:06 am
dear anon!
Bolenders has no problem to ID themself, you Quastion is not a smart one.
mimi.

7:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:06 am
dear anon!
Bolenders has no problem to ID themself, you Quastion is not a smart one.
mimi.

7:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought we Jews stopped being sheep after the holocaust.

2:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE BOLENDERS ARE JUST BIDING THEIR TIME.. THE PROVERBIAL S--- WILL HIT THE FAN IN DUE TIME.... GOOD THINGS COME TO ALL WHO WAIT AND WHO ARE TRUE OF HEART. NO SHEEP HERE--BAAAA, BAAAA. MALKIE

3:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kudos to you Malkie.

3:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why is korns bakery moving out GG and opening on central ave?

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why not?

so far they are the best bakery in the five towns!!!

1:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WELL ZOMICKS NEEDS THE SPACE.

WHAT CAN THEY DO?

1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i believe that zomicks has a connection with the new owners.. gg had nothing to do with leiby either staying or leaving.

3:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

bla.....bla.....bla..........bla......bla.......

9:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Korns is taking over the Haimish bakery storefront in Lawrence. Haimish closed.

9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, GG and the BOLENDERS never have with anything to do they are FOREVER INNOCENT. (tell that to someone else)

and if that would be the case then the VAAD would have not pulled the hechsher so give me a break.

9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well i am glad that korns is moving closer to SUPERSOL because now i will be shopping at supersol they never have any issues with any body or anything

so THANK YOU!!!

Leiby is a great guy i am so HAPPY for him, me and my friends left GG for good.

10:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is zomicks doing that bad?

i here they are closing there store on central ave.

11:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is zomicks doing that bad?

i here they are closing there store on central ave.

11:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is zomicks doing that bad?

i here they are closing there store on central ave.

11:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
well, GG and the BOLENDERS never have with anything to do they are FOREVER INNOCENT. (tell that to someone else)

and if that would be the case then the VAAD would have not pulled the hechsher so give me a break.

9:57 PM

to the above individual... you should really learn how to read....if you did then you would have all the newspapers that quoted rabbi eisen when he said there is no issue of kashrus.. if there were, then you would have had to kasher your kitchens again, right?? think about it..when rabbi eisen said to GG, sell in 4 months or we will pull our tuedah--kashruth was great...no problem..vaad rabbi were in gg with keys to make sure...so why is there a forced sale?? because of a personality issue with a bolender..NEVER KASHRUS according to rabbi eisen..if you do not believe me, call mayer fertig - he interviewed eisen...as for the early pulling of the hechser,,it was now due to Contractual issues...the vaad wanted no competition on their turf....if you think that the DA is not aware of this infraction of the law, think again...Substitute the the word MAFIA for the word VAAD and you should be able to get the point being made....maybe the whole situation will become clearer to you when the new york times and the wall street journal report on this sad episode.. they have contacted several members of the bolender family who, unfortunatly signed no sue agreements...so instead, several others close to the situation have chosen to speak and come forward. please try to educate yourself so that you can read these more intelligent publications. no, i am not sherree, mark craig or a bolender. but, i am very very close to the situation as a far rocker and a supporter.. malkie

10:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

korns bakery no more at gg why?

2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

new owners did not want them-since Zomicks owner is an investor with the new owners-makes sense-not fair,but all is fair in love, war, and kosher food business???

10:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who cares?

10:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

shame on all of you!!!!!!!

11:43 AM  

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