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Thursday, February 22, 2007

Court Documents from Today's Court Appearance: Greenbaum vs. Google

Here is a link to the stipulation agreed to in today's court proceeding in Pamela Greenbaum vs. Google, Inc. (Page 1, Page 2).
In short, Greenbaum's lawyer and the lawyer for Google agreed to hold off on any discovery until April 5th to give me a chance to present my case. Until that time, Google will not produce any documents it may have that pertain to my identity or that of my commenters.

93 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

does this mean you and pam are officially in the ring, OM?

8:05 PM  
Anonymous Observer said...

Sorry OM, you must have gotten it wrong. After all, reallawyer so haughtilly explained to all of us on a previous thread that you would have no right to be heard since you were not a named party and he harshly disparaged the legal acumen of all the attornies posting on this site who disagreed. I hope for reallawyer's sake that the crow tastes ok.

8:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you go girl! and i dont mean pam.

8:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So in other words, this case did not get tossed out of court. Hmm.

8:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you should all read my comments in the 5t jt on the orthomom lawsuit

then open your eyes

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Woodmerer Rebbe, Esq. said...

" Anonymous said...

So in other words, this case did not get tossed out of court. Hmm."

this wasn't argued, how can it get tossed out of court? the judge likely didn't even take one glance at the evidence yet. now's when the case is made to toss the case out. only people who know very little about the law would expect that this would be thrown out today. today was procedural, now's when things might get interesting.

8:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would a judge allow a case to continue, and make a detailed order, if it was so meritless as you've claimed and if the requester is not entitled to the material? Just asking.

8:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would a judge allow a case to continue, and make a detailed order, if it was so meritless as you've claimed and if the requester is not entitled to the material? Just asking

The judge did nothing today. Read the post. The parties agreed to hold things off until Orthomom is heard and the judge signed of on that agreement. What happened today is no reflection of the merits of the case because nobody presented the merits.

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nobody presented the case. can you read?

8:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But will OM have to reveal her identity to present her case?

9:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

its nuts that google would reveal so easily and not even argue the case on merits. this case is so dumb and poorly constructed that its a slam dunk. i guess googles policy is never to argue the merits of a case? it wd get too expensive? so they hand that job over to the subscriber?

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Woodmerer Rebbe, Esq. said...

" Anonymous said...

But will OM have to reveal her identity to present her case? "

nah. there are john doe cases all the time.

" Anonymous said...

its nuts that google would reveal so easily and not even argue the case on merits. this case is so dumb and poorly constructed that its a slam dunk. i guess googles policy is never to argue the merits of a case? it wd get too expensive? so they hand that job over to the subscriber? "

exactly right. this isn't a comment by google on whether they think the case has merit. they don't care about the case. but they allow their customers a chance to defend themselves.

9:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

can someone pass the popcorn? (munch, munch)

9:39 PM  
Anonymous Veganovich said...

I am surprised and disappointed in Google.

They essentially bowed out of the proceedings, and left the matter for Orthomom to defend. I thought they would oppose the OSC themselves, and not have to require that Orthomom obtain her own counsel. Google has an incentive to leave an impression that they will fight to protect the anonymity of bloggers, otherwise, bloggers will use a different site. This was an easy case for Google to win, and I am sure they deal with this legal issue frequently.

10:24 PM  
Anonymous curious said...

the question is, does pamela realize that even if adam feder (a parent in sd 15, if anyone didnt know that yet) is doing this pro bono, she will be responsible for om's attorneys fees when she loses this? that is probably going to add up to a pretty penny. who's gonna pay it? alps? the lta?

10:42 PM  
Blogger flatbushrenegade said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

April 5th is the first Intermediary Day of Pesach

11:56 PM  
Blogger flatbushrenegade said...

oooops, you are right, my apologies

12:03 AM  
Blogger flatbushrenegade said...

How can a judge tell you that you have to appear or risk a default judgement of relief against you, if you aren't the party being sued? I thought this suit was brought against Google?

12:04 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

I guess OM has to interest civil rights bodies and other similar groups.

Btw, the clerk has lousy handwriting. No typewriters or computers in NY courts?

1:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone really care who you are?
It doesn't really matter if one knows you by your God given name or by your chosen name of Orthomom, for most of the people reading this blog will never meet you in person. You have outed Pam Greenbaum, in all your literary glory. I wonder if this is all just a ploy to get more publicity- I wonder.....

2:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Does anyone really care who you are?"

I think we can all agree that pam grenbaum cares who om is.

"I wonder if this is all just a ploy to get more publicity- I wonder....."

maybe for pam. but i highly doubt om filed a lawsuit against herself.

2:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if I know the name, in the end, Orthomom will always be... anonymous...

2:11 AM  
Blogger Joe Schick said...

I think this lawsuit is absolute nonsense, but it appears that Google has indeed refused to oppose the order to show cause and is leaving Orthomom to fend for herself. It is not accurate to say that argument of an OSC is merely procedural just because the attorneys signed a stip, especially where the stip provides discovery to plaintiff.

9:46 AM  
Blogger triLcat said...

Just wanted to add chizuk. I'm sorry that you're going through this nonsense. I hope Ms. Greenbaum ends up owing you a pretty penny; this is not what the law is for.

10:04 AM  
Blogger Married and Navigating Jewish Brooklyn said...

We're still rooting for you.

Hope Google does do the right thing and opposes the lawsuit or else this will show a bad side to a company who should have an interest in protecting its blogger community.

10:21 AM  
Blogger AMSHINOVER said...

mom
remember when the jblogsphere was just us few nuts

10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM- april 5th? is that going to thwart your peseach travel plans?

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
Married and Navigating Jewish Brooklyn said...

We're still rooting for you.

Hope Google does do the right thing and opposes the lawsuit or else this will show a bad side to a company who should have an interest in protecting its blogger community."


Google already made it clear from these papers that they will take no stance on the lawsuit whatsoever. they are leaving om to contest the claim and make her own case.

10:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 10:42 PM-
If Greenbaum's atty is a SD15 resident and he is doing this pro bono, is she taking gifts as an elected official?

10:49 AM  
Anonymous Observer said...

Ymedad - FYI, such Stipulations are usually filled out by counsel for the litigants, not by Court personnel.

11:00 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

Joe Schick said...
I think this lawsuit is absolute nonsense,

I hope Joe is correct.

but it appears that Google has indeed refused to oppose the order to show cause and is leaving Orthomom to fend for herself. It is not accurate to say that argument of an OSC is merely procedural just because the attorneys signed a stip, especially where the stip provides discovery to plaintiff.


But unfortunately I am certain that Joe is correct in this portion of his comments.
9:46 AM

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Woodmerer Rebbe, Esq. said...

but it appears that Google has indeed refused to oppose the order to show cause and is leaving Orthomom to fend for herself. It is not accurate to say that argument of an OSC is merely procedural just because the attorneys signed a stip, especially where the stip provides discovery to plaintiff.


But unfortunately I am certain that Joe is correct in this portion of his comments."

It wouldn't be procedural if Google would have decided to fight the case on its merits. But Google came in ready to sign a stip with the plaintiff's lawyer. So there really could have been no diferent outcome unless Google would change their policy regarding fighting these types of OSC's. They haven't, as it seems.

Google users: be aware! They will give in to these types of claims without a battle!
P.S. Does this mean the same thing can be done with Gmail? Someone can present a frivolous case and ask for discovery regarding the content of emails, and google will give in immediately unless the target gets a lwyer and submits to an expensive court battle? Scary.

11:27 AM  
Anonymous chana said...

Hang in there Orthomom!... Good Shabbos...

11:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

question. how are you going to defend yourself in court without them learnig your true identity.

11:59 AM  
Blogger rebba shlita said...

there is a lesson to be learnt from all this, myself included. we all hide behind these fake names allowing us freedom to take shots at anyone from gedolim to nobodies like pam g. and although ortho might be putting up a brave front i am sure she is a little worried about being revealed.
i think in general just b/c we think no one will find out who we are we feel we can write whatever we please about whomever we want. maybe this will wake the frum bloggosphere up.
my parents always taught me if you are embarrased to be doing somthing then you probaly are doing the wrong thing.

12:12 PM  
Blogger Holy Hyrax said...

Rebba Shlita

OM is not the one that wrote the comments. It was someone on the thread.

Anyways, OM, we all support you. This Pam woman is just unbelievable.

12:45 PM  
Anonymous O' Brother where ORTHO said...

About a year ago, I was part of a clandestine attempt to unmask OM for all of the 5T's to see.
Although we narrowed her down to 2 or 3 likely suspects we were unsucessful in verifying her identity beyond any reasonable doubt so we remained silent.
She's good - and she protects her ID with ferocity.
Our motivations were diverse but, I'm sorry to say, it was mostly for sport.
Despite my personal interest, and my involvment in attempting to accomplish the very same result, I am 100% behing you OM - I hope you beat back the Wicked Witch of the West. (Legal Disclaimer: This description is not intended to describe any real or fictional person or thing. Author takes no responsibility for writing any of the above and is actually intoxicated at the time of writing and therefore legally insane and not liable for any claims, descriptions, mischaracterizations, misrepresentations, misinterpetations or any other misses that may or may not have just occured.)

1:24 PM  
Anonymous O' Brother where ORTHO said...

I Hate typos...
that was 100% BEHIND you OM

1:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They spelled "limited" with 2 "t's" in your "page 1" link - talk about high-profile lawyering...

1:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the old days OM had a picture of herself linked to on the blogroll courtesy of Airtime.

1:58 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

I accused Pam Greenbaum of being anti-bacterial. I hope Google won't sell me up the river.

2:27 PM  
Blogger mapletree7 said...

Hi Orthomom:

If you'd like some legal help/advice, the EFF might be a resource:

http://www.eff.org/bloggers/

4:16 PM  
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4:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The stipulation agreement also says that Pam agrees to repay Google $75 for each hour they spend searching that info. She can expect to get hit with a bill for several thousand dollars.

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

rebba shlita said...
"we all hide behind these fake names allowing us freedom to take shots at anyone from gedolim to nobodies like pam g."

Rebba Shlita, the problem with your analysis is that Pam G. is not a nobody. She is the mother of 2, and the wife of a VP at her shul, a volunteer public servant, a 5T resident, a fellow Jew and a human being. The thoughts you expressed are laudable, but the way you expressed them in regard to this person . . . well, what would your parents think?

6:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What if everyone who thought this suit was ridiculous started an anonymous blog and called PG some sort of silly name. Something along the lines of "Pamela Greenbaum is a giraffe." Or what if those of you who blog under your own name claimed to be Orthomom? Sort of like a blogosphere version of "I'm Spartacus."

11:52 PM  
Blogger tnspr569 said...

You have my full support as well, OM.

3:34 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

Shavua Tov.

Since there are lawyers reviewing these comments, is this story of any help to OM:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/16752834.htm
Pro golfer Fuzzy Zoeller is teed off over what he calls defamatory statements about him on Wikipedia.

But instead of suing the popular online reference site, Zoeller is taking a swing at a Miami company. In a lawsuit filed last week in Miami-Dade Circuit Court, Zoeller -- suing under the name John Doe -- alleged the statements were posted from a computer belonging to Josef Silny & Associates.

Josef Silny, the company's president, expressed surprise when told this week by a Miami Herald reporter that the 1979 Masters champion was suing his company.

''I think it's the most bizarre thing that's ever happened in my life,'' said Silny, who added he doesn't follow golf and knows Zoeller's name only from the sports pages. Silny's firm evaluates foreign nationals' educational credentials for clients such as the state of Florida.

The case goes into the thorny territory of who is responsible -- and can be held liable -- for information posted on communal media sites such as Wikipedia.

P.S. Thanks "observer" but the question still stands. It's a court document or what?

3:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DISCLAIMER:
The views expressed in this blog or it's post's DO NOT reflect those of Orthodox Judaism. According to Orthodox Judaism a person is not allowed to say useless negative statements about others OR own a blog which hosts other people's negative comments.
These people do not by any means represent the Orthodox community in the 5 Towns. They represent themselves.
Nothing positive is gained by their negative rants and the world would be a better place without it. Free speech is protected by the Constitution. Useless negative speech is not protected by the Torah.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

google did a nasty by not defending om
They provide people with the chance to be "Anonymous" and then don't protect the innocent blogger.

11:35 PM  
Anonymous Can't Wait said...

John Edwards just fired a couple of bloggers for nasty things they once said on their blogs. It's the right thing, people should blog to say inflammatory things on the radio without a reasonable consequence. All you proste yidden in the five towns just think you can throw your feces at people like a bunch of monkeys. I hope OrthoMom does get exposed; she did nothing wrong and it won't be fair to her but the culture is a consequence-free environment given to bad acting out. OrthoMom, Yid with Lid, Dov Bear and all the rest of the monkeys should be exposed and pilloried for the good of society.

4:03 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

Monkeys? Gee, you sound like a fanatic Muslim? Let's get a little bit more respectful all round. Foul-mouhting like that isn't good behavior, can't-wait.

9:19 AM  
Anonymous conservo-mom said...

I clearly support OM here because Pam's case is just SO rediculous. However I think Pam will realize soon that it's time for her to leave the 5 Towns. She is greatly outnumbered and underestimates the power of its ever-growing ortho community. Look at Gourmet Glatt!

10:32 AM  
Blogger Jack's Shack said...

Can't Wait said...

Pot, this is the kettle speaking, you are black. Here you are making obnoxious comments from behind the anonymity of your computer screen.

10:42 AM  
Anonymous Rudy said...

conservo-mom :
What a stupid, inflammatory, pointless comment.
NO good could come from your comments - only enranged people, who also make this neighborhood thier home, saying "you see, we knew it all along, "The Orthodox" just want us to leave."
Well, I'm Orthodox and I'd like to stand up and say conservo-mom's comments are OUT OF ORDER and do NOT reflect what most of us feel.
Shame on you for saying that.

10:50 AM  
Anonymous Roslyn Baal Teshuvah said...

As someone raised in a non-Orthodox atmosphere, and tasted everything the non-Orthodox world has to taste, I must say that it's wonderful to return HOME, to Torah Judaism. I do not live in the 5 Towns, but am there quite often as I have many friends there. I live in an area populated by mostly non-Orthodox Jews, so you can say I'm in the opposite Pam & her pals are in.

Unfortunately, Pam Greenbaum & her like-minded friends have never experienced the wonderful aspects & warmth of true Torah Judaism. Instead they have become all defensive, falsely believing that the "Orthodox are taking over", as if it's some type of conspiracy to ruin her & her friends' lives.
Sadly, they are too angry to actually investigate why thousands of Jews are changing their entire lifestyles to adhere to a Torah way of life. I believe they feel threatened, as what we do and why we do it, makes absolutely no sense to them. Why would anyone in their right mind give up lobster, TV on Shabbos and start going to a synagogue every Saturday?

So while I can relate to Pam Greenbaum & my fellow former co-religionists of the "frei" world, I must say that their actions speak louder than words. Pam & crew, chill out. You are not being attacked. It's called changing demographics. Deal with it. Adapt or move, period.

Better yet, please attend a Shabbaton at one of the many awesome outreach weekends and learn why us meshugenah Jews believe the way we do.
Here's one.... www.gatewaysonline.com
For the record, Gateways has NOTHING to do with me, this blog, Orthomom, or anything going on in the 5 Towns. They only wish to show Jews the beauty of their heritage that unfortunately, too many Jews are abandoning at breakneck speed.

11:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

However I think Pam will realize soon that it's time for her to leave the 5 Towns. She is greatly outnumbered and underestimates the power of its ever-growing ortho community.

To the blogger who said this.

(a)While I support OM's rights here, you are way out of line.

(b) Pam can and should choose to live whereever she chooses. The 5T is not a ghetto, but with comments loke yours it might become one. Shame on you for your distasteful comments. It sounds to me like a bumper sticker I say a few years ago, "Go BACK TO BROOKLYN". So totally wrong on so many levels.

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roslyn, what gives you the right to say "Greenbaum & her like-minded friends have never experienced the wonderful aspects & warmth of true Torah Judaism" considering that you're not from here and you've never met the woman? Talk about wrong on so many levels!

Conservo-mom, what gives you the right to say its time for anyone to "leave" anywhere? Are you the gate-keeper?

This controversy is about civility in blogging, and you two ladies have obviously missed the point.

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Roslyn Baal Teshuvah said...

My "right" is called the "1st Amendment".

Living 15 miles away allows be to be intimately familiar with what transpires there, especially with the help of that weekly paper, the Five Towns Jewish Times.

You've probably seen me at Supersol many times.

It's obvious from her actions that she is hostile to Torah Judaism. Obviously she has never experienced the real thing.

Orthodox Jews, like all others, are extremely opinionated. It seems that Pam Greenbaum bases her entire worldview of Torah Judaism on what transpires within her little school board world.

Very sad!

Roslyn BT

1:57 PM  
Anonymous Observer said...

Ymedad: Because you asked. The way it usually works in such court parts is that the attorneys for the two sides draw up a Stipulation which they hand up to be signed and/or entered. So long as the resolution/contents of the Stipulation are acceptable to the Court, the Court will take it as written. In most parts, the Court has no part in the actual drafting of the Stipulation. The Stipulations are usually drawn up by the Movant (here, that would be P. Greenbaum's counsel) but that is not always the case. As to my own experience -- when entering into such Stipulations I have never bothered to correct opposing counsel's spelling or grammar so long as the errors did not effect the meaning of the Stipulation. To do so might come off as rude and petty and we lawyers like to avoid that, which is why our profession has such a sparkling reputation. The point is, the court had nothing to do with the drafting of the document: the spelling, handwriting or whatever you take issue with is the work of counsel, not the Court.

2:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roslyn, your response chills me to the very bone. You take issue with someone else's spirituality based upon nothing but your own yardstick - without ever having met the woman or that entire group you label "her likeminded friends"? Your presumptuousness is stunning. Your statement is an embarrassment (but just to yourself and the 5TJT).

2:22 PM  
Anonymous conservo-mom said...

Sorry if my comment offended anyone, I tried to keep it brief which actually may have left it too open for interpretation. I'm not really saying anyone needs to leave the 5T but I think Pam needed to realize that opposing the majority opinion would result in certain reactions. I honestly don't think she realized how powerful and unified the orthodox community is in the 5T. I think the 5T is a nice place and I certainly hope it does not turn into a "ghetto" as one commentor put it! But to be honest, I don't think it is such a welcoming place for Jews of all denominations. And if that's not the kind of place it's meant to be then OK. But, I hear and read about too much jew neged jew stuff in the 5T and it saddens and frightens me.

3:37 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

I alwasys thought that there was a certain percentage of patients who never made it through the day due to the atrocious handwriting of doctors, some of whom insisted (at least when I was a little boy) to write half of their prescriptions in Latin. I thought lawyers were better trained. Nu, I should know.

3:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone who is willing to embrace the many cultures that make up the 5Towns are a welcome addition to the community. But those that chose to draw lines in the sand and make it a we versus them battle such as yours truly (I don't want to be sued next) are the disease that plagues our community.

To people like that I say, "Let me help you with that FOR SALE sign you're putting up on your front lawn"

7:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conservo-mom said...
"...I think Pam needed to realize that opposing the majority opinion would result in certain reactions."

Oh! So you know that the opposition to Ms. Greenbaum is a majority? A majority of what? Narrow minded jackals who are incapable of respecting the views of others1 You must walk around with your own voting machine.

7:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Narrow minded jackals who are incapable of respecting the views of others1"

sweet. and we want to know why things have gotten so out of hand in the community.

7:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roslyn Baal Teshuvah said...

Rabbis Kohl and Shippel probably would take issue with your comments.

11:48 PM  
Anonymous Roslyn Baal Teshuvah said...

With all due respect, who are Rabbis Kohl & Shippel, and why would they take issue with my comments?

12:24 AM  
Blogger JoeSettler said...

Good luck OM. This is ridiculous.

1:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My understanding based on what I heard happened from the 5 Towns Blog that was around last year blasting the wife in the spitz divorce, was that google wont give up any names.

3:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roslyn BT,

You spoke about Gateways. I gave you staff members

http://www.gatewaysonline.com/about.asp#Meet_the_Staff

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