Winter Break Worries
It doesn't seem that long ago that my high school friends were breaking free of parental supervision to spend winter break camped out in various hotels and motels down in Miami Beach. I was never allowed by my (from my vantage point as a teenager) overprotective parents to go alone, yet I managed once or twice to get down there with a friend's parents. I remember the scene well, and it wasn't pretty. Smoking and drinking (and worse) were pretty much the main activity, and parental supervision was basically nil.
This week's NYJW features a piece written by two mothers of teens who found themselves in front-row seats, observing the Yeshiva winter break scene in Miami Beach. From their take, it looks like things haven't changed all that much:
Hey, I'm all for giving kids a little freedom - God knows that they need some, considering the constraints of attending 6 days a week of Yeshiva. But never without proper supervision, never without proper attendance to their safety. Is it easy to strike the right balance? Of course not. But getting it wrong can have dire circumstances. Too much freedom, and they end up on the streets without breaking any rules at all. Too many rules, they end up on the street simply to break them.
I'm just so scared, as my kids enter their teenage years, that I won't strike the right balance. Isn't everyone?
This week's NYJW features a piece written by two mothers of teens who found themselves in front-row seats, observing the Yeshiva winter break scene in Miami Beach. From their take, it looks like things haven't changed all that much:
We flew down with our teenage daughters who attend co-ed camps, watch TV and movies, and seem connected to their iPods. We were looking forward to an innocent week of fun in the sun. But what we witnessed was anything but innocent. During several late-night walks we saw hundreds of Jewish teenagers in groups large and small roaming Collins Avenue, the boardwalk and several hotels, drinking and smoking, completely entranced with the goal of getting “high” and intoxicated beyond belief.I'm not sure exactly when I reached the point in my life that a description like this would cause me to shudder as it did when I read it this weekend - I know it would not have given me pause when I myself was a teenager. Did my perspective change when I gave birth to my first child and became a parent, directly responsible for the safety and well-being of another human being? Did it happen when my eldest went off to school for the first time, and I entrusted his care to that of another ostensibly responsible party? Did it happen when my kids started sleepaway camp, and I had to grapple with the uncertainty of not seeing them, not knowing their daily activities, for weeks on end? Likely it was gradual, the transition from someone who sees these teenage hijinks as a perfectly acceptable rite of passage to someone who sees them for what they are - dangerous behavior that should never be allowed to go on unsupervised. Yet they do.
The girls, aged 15-18, were so scantily clad that bathing suits would have covered up more. Nothing they possessed was left for the imagination. Thin figured or full, they wore outfits that seemed to say, “I’m here! Come and get me!” The boys dressed in jeans, T-shirts or shorts may have looked fine, but they huddled in groups, beer cans in hand and cigarettes and matches at the ready.
The interaction between the girls and boys was grotesque. Hands and mouths were everywhere. Nothing was private, no body part untouchable. A small boy of 15, walking around in a daze searching for his older sister, was easily deterred from his mission by a “friend” who smacked him on the back and said, “Come on, let’s go find us some chicks!” He followed.
The angelic-looking girl with the long blond hair in a red hoodie was heard pleading with the boys she was with, “Come on, give me the weed, get me some weed … it’s my birthday!”
Hey, I'm all for giving kids a little freedom - God knows that they need some, considering the constraints of attending 6 days a week of Yeshiva. But never without proper supervision, never without proper attendance to their safety. Is it easy to strike the right balance? Of course not. But getting it wrong can have dire circumstances. Too much freedom, and they end up on the streets without breaking any rules at all. Too many rules, they end up on the street simply to break them.
I'm just so scared, as my kids enter their teenage years, that I won't strike the right balance. Isn't everyone?
65 Comments:
Yes, Om. I'm terrified that I won't get it right. All the talk about "at risk" teens scares the hell out of me and my son is only 1.
not to mention that wild party in the five towns last week
Hey, some of the Jewish day schools in NJ could be charaterized as wild.
Are the Jewish kids hanging out in Florida only MO, or also LWY...?
Ah, so there are advantages of being raised "poor." With constant reminders of how much my tuition was setting them back, there was never a question of my going to Florida for winter break. In fact, the only time I went to Florida for any break, I went with my mom, spent a few days enjoying the pool and the beach, and had some really excellent Chinese food.
My parents simply wouldn't allow any overnight activity that wasn't either NCSY or school-related. And as for alcohol, somehow I got scared enough that someone would rape my drunken, passed-out body that I was only willing to drink when one of my parents was present.
Which explains how I got nicely buzzed at the wedding of someone I'd never met (I was there with my mom - he was the son of her friend) and ended up with several phone numbers at the end of the evening. Apparently, when I'm drunk, I do a mean "macarena." (helped that I was 18, 5'7", and weighed 130 lbs.)
Then again, it's pretty safe to be buzzed when the person who takes you home is the person who gave birth to you...
the wild party, attended by many from teh five towns, was not actually in the five towns (not to excuse it but be precise)
the not teh :-)
Ive said this before: we cant be afraid of saying no to our children. its our duty and responsibility. we have to give them rules and consequences for when those rules are broken (e.g. a curfew). My parents used to give me the "as long as you are under my roof" speech fairly often. i hated them at the time, but THEY WERE RIGHT!!! but since most of my friends were in the same boat, it wasnt to bad. i guess its harder these days because of the peer pressure. my friend told me that her daughter was only one of three girls in her high school not going away (and the seniors are going away on their own very often).
so to answer your question, yes im terrified....
let me tell you another scary story. last night my daughter helped put on a concert for their school. after the concert, she said she would get a lift home. when she called me at a very late hour to tell me who her lift was, it was a junior in high school who had just gotten her license. she was driving everyone home. do you now what the weather in new york looked like last night? turns out all the girls came with cars because their parents figured it would be too late to stay up to pick them up. these are teenagers who have gbeen driving for at most a few months. i ende up getting out of bed to pick her up. she was embarassed and annoyed, but i didnt have a choice.
great post. were all scared.
fomr what i hear that wild party got pretty nasty and the cops were involved.
I have never understood the "spring break" or "winter break" cultural phenomena. I went to public high school, and not a single person I knew went on an unsupervised trip like that before they graduated.
Ok. I'll bite. What happened at the wild party that may or may not have been in the five towns?
The scene in Miami over winter break is pretty awful, I have seen it myself. We definitely need to know how and when to say “no” to our kids especially when (i.e. in this particular case) it relates to their safety. But it is also our responsibility to keep an eye on their self esteem which, of course, starts early on. When I was in high school, the kids who were drinking, smoking, drugging, dressing without tzniut, etc. always seemed to have such low self esteem. I must always remind myself to speculate – are my kids proud of themselves? Do they have interests and hobbies that allow them to feel good about themselves and also connect with others? Am I listening to them and taking their opinions seriously? Are they too anxious about what others think of them? Also - my kids are too young to have the drinking & drugs conversation but when appropriate I know it will be important for me to ask them...what they know about it…do they know anyone who does it…what do they think about it…etc. If I take a serious interest in what they have to say about it then hopefully they’ll take my opinions seriously as well. Saying “no no no” will only get us so far. We need to have these important conversations with them early on before the wrong person does.
if you want to know why the daughters dress the way they look, look at the moms. since i enjoy looking at a good looking woman here and there, the 5 towns are not lacking in provocatively dressed moms who love to shop at brachs. the daughters dont fall far from the tree.
being unmarried and still of that general age (college/baismedrish, not highschool) I can't relate to what these teens are doing at all. I couldn't in highschool and I can't now.
It scares the living daylights out of me that other people are doing this kind of thing, and even with out children of my own I'm scared what will be with my own children. This kind of thing scares me what will be with the kids in my community (whom I love) when they are older, and it just totaly boggles my mind.
I don't understand why people would ever think of doing something so irresponsible and stupid. Yes I think that we need to have conversations with our kids about this kind of thing, and be upfront and honest about what it does, and everything else, and to a degree we have to trust them. At the teenage age they are old enough that if we always treat them with a lack of trust they will rebell and will start to do exactly the things that we do not want them to be doing because "they don't trust me anyway".
Teenagers may be totaly irresponsible at times, but you can't completely control them anymore. At some point you have to start treating them less like a kid whom you control everything in their lives and being honest and upfront with them about what you want and what you think about these things and how things are and allowing them to give you nachas.
But I still do not understand why people do this kind of thing or would ever see this as an "Acceptable" right of passage. What about messing up your brain is a way of becoming an adult?
anon, there is a big difference between a woman dressing well and a teenage girl selling herself as a sex object by wearing practicaly nothing. (which is what they are doing.)
These girls have serious problems if they are dressing this way, and it more than likely relates to a severe lack of self esteem that the only thing they feel they have is their sexuality, and therefore they use it to try and make something of themselves to feel good about. Its really bad when the only thing a girl feels she has to offer is her body.
Please someone describe this "PArty" that happened.
Anonymous said...
Please someone describe this "PArty" that happened.
As a parent, I feel that this is something we should be aware off - but please, any identifying details will be deleted.
Holy Cow! Let me get this straight. These teens are ostensibly Orthodox? And the parents don't give a damn that there are multiple Isurrei Torah being transgressed here? Eating pork publicly would not be as bad as this.
the worst part about that party is that supposedly there were no arrests and the cops did next to nothing
Orthomom- I hate to sound so simplistic, but as a teenager barely a year out of high school, all I can say is to do your best; you certainly seem to have the best intentions. I'm sure you know the importance of letting your kids know that they can always talk to you about anything, and that you love them unconditionally. It is very important to have rules and boundaries.
Jameel- kids from all over the spectrum attend the parties; I've heard enough to know. Thankfully, I haven't been a witness to anything of the sort.
There's a reason I didn't really hang out with a lot of my peers during high school. It was very sad to find out that people with whom I was close before high school (but with whom I fell out of touch by the end of middle school and beginning of high school) nearly ruined their lives after becoming involved with the more popular scene, where drinking, doing drugs, and partying were simply par for the course. It has always been a challenge for me to find the good, "straight-arrow" kids in my immediate environment. It's quite the balancing act- not isolating oneself but not exposing oneself to such terrible, but typical, scenes.
The stories I've heard really scare me; my parents and I have wondered what these kids are trying to escape by engaging in such damaging behavior. Many of the kids either want to be popular and cool, and/or have been given everything they want by their parents, and the parents do not seem to care much about what happens to their children.
It has gotten to the point where one high school sent an email to parents before the start of winter break a few years ago, instructing parents not to leave their teenage children home alone. After winter break, the school had drug and alcohol counselors conducting sessions with the entire student body for the better part of a week. I could not believe what I heard of those sessions.
Even here in Israel, there is quite a bit of the same behavior going on at any given point in the year. It's gotten to the point where it's not surprising to find collections of alcoholic beverages in dorm rooms, with kids enjoying a few late night drinks, if they're not coming back stone drunk, reeking of some type of smoke.
It's very sad, but I find myself dreading this coming Purim. I've never been comfortable around drunkenness, and from what I've heard, people go far beyond the mitzvah in yeshivot here in Israel. At least I have some "safe" options in the area; yet another reason why I'm so thankful for my relatives here in Israel.
I can't even go to a yeshiva-sponsored oneg without witnessing consumption of copious amounts of alcohol; apparently a certain yeshiva takes issue with students skipping activities on an "in" Shabbat, but has no qualms about providing its students with alcohol. Then again, this same yeshiva has no problem with kids going out drinking to celebrate fellow students' birthdays. The kids got so drunk the last time that several emptied their stomachs well before the night was over. All came back fairly intoxicated, to the point that it was impressive that they could even walk in a straight line. The rosh yeshiva joked about the whole episode with students the following morning after shacharit. When confronted about these issues, the other rosh yeshiva simply denied that there was even a problem. Sad, but true.
There's a reason I'm so desperate to get out of yeshiva sometimes.
It doesnt get any better after high school or israel. the new trend is so disturbing. the orthodox college kids (be they yu/stern, touro , cuny whatever) frequenting the manhattan bar scene is at all time sickening high. parents need look no further than myspace and facebook to be horrified. and for those kids its much worse because they are a little older and more independent.
great topic, om. this is something that i see across the spectrum of orthodox schools from mo to yeshivish.
this is why we need you around, om. keep up the good fight. pam doesnt know what shes up against!
I would think that most frum residents of the 5-Towns today would have taken pause even when they were teenagers at any wide-spread drug-abuse, drinking, scantily-clad, etc.
The fact that you state in regard to these activities: "I know it would not have given me pause when I myself was a teenager" says something.
I bring this up only to make the point (as others have done in similar contexts, and directed at others reading this blog) that your ortho-view does not represent a typical one held by many right-leaning 5-Towns residents, which you sometimes portray yourself to be.
Good luck with the PG case.
The fact that you state in regard to these activities: "I know it would not have given me pause when I myself was a teenager" says something.
I bring this up only to make the point (as others have done in similar contexts, and directed at others reading this blog) that your ortho-view does not represent a typical one held by many right-leaning 5-Towns residents, which you sometimes portray yourself to be.
She says she saw it when she was a teenager. She doesn't say she did it. (And, really, who hasn't seen it?)
The fact that you state in regard to these activities: "I know it would not have given me pause when I myself was a teenager" says something.
Give pause means cause to hesitate. When she says it didn't giveher pause, she's not saying she would have embraced it or enjoyed it. She's only saying that it wouldn't have surprised her.
"the transition from someone who sees these teenage hijinks as a perfectly acceptable rite of passage to someone who sees them for what they are -"
Interesting. And at what point did you learn to differentiate between your perspective and the reality
Interesting. And at what point did you learn to differentiate between your perspective and the reality
In OM's own words from the post:
Did my perspective change when I gave birth to my first child and became a parent, directly responsible for the safety and well-being of another human being? Did it happen when my eldest went off to school for the first time, and I entrusted his care to that of another ostensibly responsible party? Did it happen when my kids started sleepaway camp, and I had to grapple with the uncertainty of not seeing them, not knowing their daily activities, for weeks on end? Likely it was gradual,
re: the party mentioned above..
my child who knows people who attended, says there were 3 or 4 arrests.
I bring this up only to make the point (as others have done in similar contexts, and directed at others reading this blog) that your ortho-view does not represent a typical one held by many right-leaning 5-Towns residents, which you sometimes portray yourself to be.
Right. Because no "right-leaning 5-Towns resident" ever saw any bad behavior as a teen. Ever. Where do you get off? I am a baal teshuva. I grew up Frei, and attended public school where I saw far worse. And my kids go to Siach Yitzchak and BBY. Are you writing me off? Who says OM isnt a Baalas Teshuva? You have some nerve.
Those parents should go to the village one saturaday and see what those teens will be doing after high school.
5t Charedi,
Take it easy. The first statement said that "many" 5T residents would not have o-mom's anything-goes teen-age attitude.
You then set up a straw man and imply that this is the same as saying that no 5T resident ever saw any bad behavior.
Are these really the same things?
In any case, how this relates to anyone writing you off is beyond me.
I think it's the height of parental irresponsibility to aloow high school kids to just "camp out" in hotels for a week in Miami Beach. Am I missing something here or is that rather obvious?
You are correct Jewboy. I think that many parents think their kid is trustworthy, so they let them go. (Maybe, but why put them in that situation where they have to be around such crazy behavior?) As for me? I am very uncool. I still force my teens to come on family vacations...
I am from the cave age, and when a few friends went down to Miami Beach during vacation time from YUHSG, over 35 years ago. We went bike riding on the boardwalk, visited seaworld, parrot jungle, some sun bathing on a quiet beach, and lots of walking around. Do remember seeing some guys on collins ave near the schechters hotel? Sat in the lobby at the Fountainblu and ate ice cream...
Things have changed abit!!!!
correct party info.
Last Sunday night in Lawrence.
No arrests.
Kids from all schools were there, including central and north shore.
8 police cars showed up.
Parents had to go and "redeem" the kids that the police found in there.
Here's a hint to your daughters dressing like b'not yisrael. Buy their clothes with them. Don't give them the credit card and send them shopping.
Worked for my mom. I did not have an item of clothing she hadn't approved until I was in college.
thanks for the info. Were the parents home (The host parents)?
And what was going on at the party that made the police come? Loud music? alcohol? Drugs? all of the above?
Anon 3:56
What's the difference if the parents were home or not. There is a house in FR where teens hang out and do all kinds of crazy things, WITH THE HOST PARENTS APPROVAL. They say they are HELPING THE TEENS by giving them a place to be. Last year when r'l a boy "fell" to his death out of an apartment house window in Lawrence, the backyard of this house was full of teenagers watching him!!! PARENTS BEWARE !! I don't care how many times my kids yell and complain " BUT MOSHE or CHANA GO THERE ", we still need to watch our kids! And don't think you're doing anyone a favor if you know something "not nice" is going on with your friends kids and you keep it from your friend to spare them grief. We all MUST WATCH each other, too. If you have a good relationship with your child, and he tells you stuff about other kids, think about it this way, what if this was my child, would I want to know? If the answer is YES, then TELL THE OTHER KIDS PARENTS. BETTER HURT FEELINGS, THEN GOING TO PAY SHIVAH CALLS OR JAIL VISITS. I ma sorry to be so blunt, BUT WE ARE PLAYING WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES !!!!
I'm not yet a mother, but this article makes me shudder. It's so sad that ostensibly frum kids behave this way the minute they have a bit of freedom.
If kids are old enough to go to Miami alone, they're old enough to have jobs. I did all kinds of menial jobs for my parents and grandparents for a pittance when I was on vacation in high school. It taught me the value of a dollar, and gave me more self-esteem than you'll ever find in a can of beer.
I have never understood the "spring break" or "winter break" cultural phenomena. I went to public high school, and not a single person I knew went on an unsupervised trip like that before they graduated.
Thank you, David. I had never even heard of such things until today.
I too attended public high school. There were certainly unsupervised parties and other escapades among certain circles. Towards the end of senior year, some groups did in fact spend and time at the local beaches in rented houses.
But this? I thought traveling south for spring break was for college students. I've never heard of such arrangements for any high school students, let alone seemingly across-the-board, institutionalized, parent-supported trips for yeshiva students.
Most yeshiva parents struggle to afford private school tuition and camp fees, which these days seem to be considered obligatory in order to be accepted as properly observant by the community. Are these trips figured in as a necessary budget item, universal in practice and considered mandatory as well?
Hey I am one of the authors of the Jewish Week piece, I applaud you all for reacting and responding. I read some other blogs and Modern Orthodoxy is being blamed by some. I fine this to be quite objectionable, considering my family is pretty much MO centrist and my daughter had no desire to be any where near the scene, or near anyone having to do with the scene.Bottom line: I was with her.
Last year my husband and I witnessed several teenager as discussed in the article, some with no place to stay, sleeping on the beach!!
As the other author of the jewish week article,I'm so gratified to see how many parents out there DO care; unfortunately,not enough. This is a topict that needs to be discussed between parents and their children constantly. Kids need to know what's out there in order to protect themselves. And, as our "vacation" proved, although most the kids we saw were modern orthodox, a self-proclaimed former, now "rebel" Chassid shed some insight in to what goes on among Chassidic boys. This crisis is not one that afflicts one type of jew, it is one that afflicts all! And yes,we're all scared about striking the right balance with our kids, but that fear is a good thing; it means we care. It's those who don't worry, that never say no, that have no rules, that allow too much freedom, all good intentions...isn't that what the road to hell is paved with?????
Speaking with a teacher friend of mine, she actually mentioned that it's quite judgemental to assume, "where are the parents?".
According to this teacher, she's witnessed many kids with drug/alcohol problems where the parents knew about it and were VERY involved. The reality is that the drug problem is more prevalent than any of us imagine, and I think more needs to be done than to give our kids "self esteem".
Schools, orthodox or not, need to acknowledge the problem and implement guidance counselors, drug awareness classes, and yes, perform random drug tests. I've heard that some boys schools are actually doing the latter.
I'm with David and the last Anonymous. I went to public school and NEVER heard of anyone but one or two super spoiled kids going on a trip alone. There were unsupervised parties that I was not invited to (my parents were well known for checking out everything and I was carless so I got dropped off and picked up), but at least at the end of the night when the unsupervised party ends there are parents there to kick behinds if need be. I remember one famous party at my high school that got out of control and ended with the complete dismissal of a state championship sport's team once word got back to the school from a parent whose daughter ended up at this party.
Jewboy is right on the money.
Jewboy said...
I think it's the height of parental irresponsibility to aloow high school kids to just "camp out" in hotels for a week in Miami Beach. Am I missing something here or is that rather obvious?
2:48 PM
You're not missing anything. It's crazy, right?
Not that long ago I found out that my 15 year old and a couple of her girlfriends were hanging out at a boys house and his parents were out. We thought they would be home when we dropped her off shortly before.
It took me maybe five seconds to get my car keys and go get all the girls. They didn't even put up a fight. Like I really care if they were embarassed.
Who's in charge here, anyway?
I started asking my kids when they were around 12 lots of questions like if the parents were going to be home, etc. It seemed silly because they seemed so young and innocent. But I did it because that's what the anti-drug literature tells you to do.now that my kids are a little older, it makes it easier to have that conversation, and seems a little less accusatory.
Anon-Why not call the parents of the other kids directly? Your intentions are fantastic, but I can tell you a few stories about kids who went with other kids to parties, etc. Go directly to the source.
You people think it is any better post high school? One or two years doesnt make a difference - kids are still kids and drinking is still illegal. (israel or college or new independance or adulthood doesnt matter) Kids are still impressionable, still bow to peer influence and pressure, still wanna have fun...
The manhattan bar scene is flooded with orthodox kids fomr all types. it is a trend that is all the rage now. Kareoke bars, night clubs, and bars. Uptown downtown, the villege where ever.
Their parents don't have a clue.
NYC Jew, I will take it a step further. It doesn't get better as people age. There is a lot of partying in my neighborhood among grownups. Drinking, smoking pot, etc. And even worse, they do it with their kids around. Is is any wonder that the teens behave this way?
A friend of mine who is a social worker showed me some things on pages of frum high school kids recently on myspace and i was literally shocked beyond belief.
Then he showed me college age some college age kids and the shock turned to nausea.
I am only a few years since college but i don't think the worst of what we knew then was as bad as it is now, or at least as popular, especially among the obstensibly frum. If I were the parent of a college age daughter today, i wouldnt dare even consider the Stern or Touro dorming option.
YU Alum- why? I won't allow my kids to go to any other college.If you were the parent of a college age daughter today, hopefully you would have done yourjob well enough that your kid would be able to resist inappropriate temptations.
nycjew nails it
the whole"everything's fine my son is in yu or nyu " it just wishful thinking.
As for the florida scene it's an old story. School's for years have been trying to do something for years about it and have gotten nowhere.
Kids copy what they see on TV. According to TV that's what teenagers should be doing and they are missing out on a real life if they don't.
well then, you gotta supervise what your kids are watching on tv. I've got several in my home and for each age there are ok and not ok shows. They see plenty anyway, but we have to stress that we're different in the way we act and dress.My kids don't feel they're missing out on a thing.As with anything, if we teach by example and not by hypocracy, we've one half the battle.
The father. The father sets the tone. And that tone has to be set well before the Bar Mitzvah year.
Firm-minded parents, both parents, who are not themselves slaves to the community opinion of them can set limits.
Teach your children EARLY to not mind being alone. To snuggle up and read. If the other kids threaten them with being alone, they should be able to face that and say, well, so what. I don't mind being alone. I can snuggle up and read. Or hang with my mom. or dad. I mean, think that.
Plainly explain what you want for your children and why you do and don't allow this or that. State plainly that some things are dangerous and not considered dignified. If you YOURSELF are not scared of your kid's verdict, THE KID won't be scared of his / her friends' verdict on THEM either.
It is better to have no friends than no self-respect.
Teach the positive. "I want BETTER THAN THAT for you, darling".
And I am BT. What a Chillul Hashem did I get that right? - you bunch are. Yuck.
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