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Saturday, September 15, 2007

Ritual Wrangling

I don't really understand this:
Members of the North Shore Synagogue in Syosset made their annual trek to the waters of Cold Spring Harbor Friday afternoon to observe Tashlich, a religious ceremony observed during Rosh Hashanah that includes the symbolic casting away of sins.

But this year, the 15-minute prayer service -- which often involves throwing pieces of bread into the water for a more concrete expression of one's desire to be free of sins -- ended with Suffolk police ticketing several of the congregants' cars for illegal parking.

"We're here every year," said Beth Bucheister, who's been with the temple for 10 years. "I don't know why they had to give us a hard time this year. We felt discriminated against."

Suffolk police said members of the Cold Spring Harbor Fire Department told the congregants to move their parked vehicles because they were across from a fire truck street exit.

When the worshippers failed to do that, firefighters called Suffolk police.

Fire officials declined to comment, but Deputy Insp. Thomas Brandon of the Second Precinct in Huntington, said six $25 tickets were issued.

"They make no-stopping, no-standing zones in front of firehouses so they can get their equipment out," he said.

Bucheister, who attended the prayer service with her niece and nephew, said she told fire officials that it was a short ceremony and they would move the cars soon.

But, Bucheister said, they told her she was in the way of their fire truck getting out in an emergency.

When she and the others returned, their cars were being ticketed by a police officer.

"It's a Jewish holiday. They should have, out of respect, not done that," said participant Eileen Rosen.
Um, huh? While I'm sure it was upsetting for those people who got ticketing while performing a religious ritual, why in the world should they have been afforded the right to park illegally (in an emergency vehicle no standing zone - and apparently in the throes of an actual emergency, no less)? Sometimes it's hard to find a spot near my shul - but I wouldn't dream of parking illegally and then using religious observance as an excuse to get out of a 25-dollar parking ticket - whether it's a Jewish holiday or not.

But hey, that's just me.

52 Comments:

Anonymous goyguy said...

This story was obviously printed by Newsday to use the behavior and comments of these dopes to make all Jews look bad. Since when are there stories in the paper about people getting parking tickets? Just a little holiday present from your local paper ;-)

11:58 PM  
Blogger Warren Burstein said...

goyguy, how do you know that Newsday didn't print the story because one of the people who feels that they were discriminated against contacted them?

This is the first time I've seen non-Orthodox Jews claim immunity to traffic laws. The frummie news blogs ' stories about parking tickets (chapzem, yeshiva news, vos iz neis) seem to me to be saying "go catch some real criminals (of different ethnicities) and let us triple park in front of the bakery". There have also been some incidents where traffic tickets escalated into larger events, the case in Lakewood where a rabbi tried to intervene when a family member was being ticket and wound up arrested, and the riots in Brooklyn that started with someone driving with a cellphone. I'm not saying who was right or wrong in those cases, but I do get a sense of entitlement arising from comments on blogs, as if an ethnic group that stereotypically does not engage in crimes of violence should be given special consideration when it comes to traffic.

5:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there go the orthodox once more crying shame.."Oh..its a holiday....we will only park our cars "Illegally" for 15 minutes....grow up and stop using your religion as a way out of things...it's so wrong..oh we were praying....oh, well firefighters risk every precious moment of their lives saving people from fires you want them to supposedly wait to pull a fire truck out if needed so YOU can pray??.....what in gods name has possessed your kind to make your own rules??.. The signs were there, SO DO NOT PARK...stop hiding behind your religion and saying it was " discrimination"...stop it allready...the entire world knows this is a common practice among your communities...accept it and pay it...there not trying to show you there are dicrimante...there showing you there doing what your next dollars pay for....OBEYING TRAFFIC LAWS.....stop it allready!

5:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

that should say " Tax Dollars"

6:01 AM  
Anonymous Anon 5:57 is an a** said...

Uh, Anonymous 5:57? It's pretty evident to everyone that this group wasn't Orthodox? Because the Orthodox don't drive cars on Rosh Hashana? So maybe you should take your bigoted views elsewhere? They certainly don't belong here.

7:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

when you're wrong, you're wrong. There is never a good reason to block a firestation. Not only that, but the people were asked politely to move, and refused.
Shame on them.

9:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

om so new year is hear and you are still providing a forum for people to exercise their right of sinas chinam. Has the community and the world at large gained from the childish bickering displayed here?
I don't think so. So if you are not making any money from it then just close it down.

I mean this with love. I can't imagine how all this baseless hatred spoken on this sight over the year is a zchus for you and your family.
Its not to late to pull a George and say " I;m outta here!!"

9:21 AM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

Warren Burstein said...

goyguy, how do you know that Newsday didn't print the story because one of the people who feels that they were discriminated against contacted them?


I'm sure that's exactly what happened. So? Do they write a story about every irate reader that calls? Is there even one person who wasn't on the receiving end of the parking tickets who actually thinks that the cops were wrong here? It's not like someone looked out the window of the firehouse and just dropped a dime on them. First they asked/told them to move the cars. So they were given a courtesy by the fire officials and basically gave them the finger.

Read the 'Talkbacks' on this story on Newsdays website. "All those f***ing Jews are the same" is pretty much the theme. I doubt the point of running this story was to give a pat on the back to the cops for a job well done ;-)

And as far as anon 5:59 goes, read the post that follows yours. THEY WEREN'T ORTHODOX, you dope.You should have used your general all purpose jew hater speech. Not your 'I'm not anti semitic I just don't like the orthodox' speech.

10:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

goyguy
this a frist for me- I agree with what you said on 10:12 am.
The last paragraph right on the money.
No I am not jewish, so what.

11:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

om so new year is hear and you are still providing a forum for people to exercise their right of sinas chinam. Has the community and the world at large gained from the childish bickering displayed here?
I don't think so. So if you are not making any money from it then just close it down.

I mean this with love. I can't imagine how all this baseless hatred spoken on this sight over the year is a zchus for you and your family.
Its not to late to pull a George and say " I;m outta here!!"

9:21 AM

1) om so new year is hear here

2) baseless hatred spoken on this sight sight

3) " I;m outta here!!" I'm


This is the yeshivish edumication talking!!! lolololol

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whoops site *

i think this is the first time that I corrected a typo to be a typo lol

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anan 5:32 said
This is the yeshivish edumication talking!!! lolololol

thanks I actually went to public school and I don't spell check before I post.

as to my point that this SITE is only used for baseless hatred

THANK YOU FOR PROVING IT!!!!!

6:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I was at yeshiva, I had to do all my secular studying myslef to be able to get to college so, baseless? screw you!

7:31 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

hey hey! Keep it civil, people. You can have reasonable, substantive discourse without hurling insults and invectives at each other.

7:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow! I actually agree with Orthomom's take on this..

Somewhere, pigs are flying!

(no pun intended!)

7:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
When I was at yeshiva, I had to do all my secular studying myslef to be able to get to college so, baseless? screw you!

7:31 PM

WOW perfect example of baseless hatred.Thank you. Case closed.

OM this is among the many examples how how this blog and it's posting's are a means(albeit unintentional on your part) of bringing out the worst in people.
If your subjects were positive and you edited your post's then I hear the rational for a blog. For example if you posted a real obit about Mark Davidman a'h and you allowed this forum to be used as a place for people to heal, that would make sense.
But that isn't the case. It's a place for social rants.
Please ask yourself or at least explain to us what is the purpose AND is that purpose really worth all the hatred that comes out of it ?

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
If your subjects were positive and you edited your post's then I hear the rational for a blog. For example if you posted a real obit about Mark Davidman a'h and you allowed this forum to be used as a place for people to heal, that would make sense."

you're ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with Om's posts, and how do you know she even knows who Mark Davidman is? You might feel his loss greatly but that's your personal experience. I knew him well and feel his loss but don't expect OM to address every loss in th community.

8:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you're ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with Om's posts, and how do you know she even knows who Mark Davidman is? You might feel his loss greatly but that's your personal experience. I knew him well and feel his loss but don't expect OM to address every loss in th community.

Ridiculous?! That's harsh. I didn't know him at all but he was a local hero would tragically died and our entire community is in mourning. Om doesn't have to cover it . I was just using that as an EXAMPLE of something that would be a positive use of a blog. Instead
the common theme here is " wow this seems silly to me but maybe I'm just too smart what do you guys think?"
There is nothing wrong with it but is there anything RIGHT with it. Does any GOOD come out of it? Or is it a springboard into vile hatred.
How does the good out way the bad ? I haven't seen anyone explain it. So far anyone who has answered my question has miss understood what I am saying ( i.e. thinking that I'd like om to become an obit blog) or made fun of my typo's.
I am asking this question with the best of intentions and respect. Really.

9:13 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

the common theme here is " wow this seems silly to me but maybe I'm just too smart what do you guys think?"
There is nothing wrong with it but is there anything RIGHT with it. Does any GOOD come out of it? Or is it a springboard into vile hatred.


I'm happy to answer your question. This blog is all about my musings and thoughts. I certainly don't mean to imply that "I'm just too smart what do you guys think" - when I ask for my readers opinions or takes on subjects I genuinely want to ear if I'm missing something. There have been many instances where my opinion has been swayed or my horizons broadened by some of the comments left by readers - and that's usually a good thing. My point here is specifically to get different outlooks and opinions, and cross-pollinate ideas and views that I might never have heard otherwise.

When I started this blog, I certainly never expected hundreds of readers to check in a day to see what I have to say. But they do, and many have something to say of their own. I prefer for people to stay civil - and try to step in when things get over the line - but the fact remains that this is my place to muse, vent and rant about things that pique my interest. I appreciate that you don't like the direction my posts take, and you are welcome to stay and express those views. But with all due respect (and I mean this with no attitude at all - every reader's presence is valuable to me), if my views bother you that much, you might be less bothered if you don't read my site (though I would prefer you stayed - I'm sure you could always bring something positive to the conversation).

If my site were all about the positive things in the Five Towns and other Jewish communities, then you are right, I wouldn't be performing that service. But I don't necessarily have that goal.

Thanks for the polite way you raised this criticism. I wish everyone here could exercise such civility.

9:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dina d'malchut people!
Double park for 15 to do tashlich = ticket! Double park to get last bag of dozen challah rolls on Friday afternoon as the bakery closes = ticket, parking in front of a hydrant so you can get to the mikvah erev YK = ticket!!!!! Grow up. Let's respect the laws of the land where they have been so good to us. And if you don't think America has been good to us - I have another ticket for you - PLANE ticket- 1 way - OUT!

10:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This other dude who says he is from a public school probably takes lessons from the former Iraqi Information minister under Saddam Hussein.

That dude the former info minister from Iraq can have a US marine sticking a shotgun to his head from right in back of him, and the minister would still be in front of the newscamera saying "the great forces of saddam hussein are slaughtering american infidels!" yeah right.

Similarly, I provided a basis for my dislike of yeshiva edumications from personal experience, and what does this dope say? baseless.

11:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom, I was not the original commentator but I very much appreciate your thoughtful response.

11:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom,
For once, you and I are on the same page. I live on a block where there is no parking on the street. In front of my house, there is a No Stopping sign. My next door neighbor on one side is a temple. One of the houses across the street is a shteibel. Every single day, there are at least five to ten cars parked illegally, even to the extent of blocking my driveway... all in the name of performing some religious activity. Not cool, people, and you know who you are! Besides the fact that you are teaching your children that it is okay to disregard the law, you should think about your neighbors. Park in the conveniently located parking lot nearby!

8:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A good start is to please ask your shul officers to make frequent announcements about respecting neighbors property and the parking regulations. My (Yeshiva-ish) shul does, as do many others.

9:04 AM  
Anonymous theothergoyguy said...

I agree with goyguy...I think he has the best overall take. They shouldn't have illegally-parked, but shouldn't be a "news story".

9:43 AM  
Anonymous law-abiding ortho here said...

To be filed under...they'll hate us even if we keep to the laws.

I was driving on Sunday from Brooklyn to Five Towns, and when I got to the Marine Parkway Bridge, I pulled up behind 2 cars at an EZ-Pass lane. 2 cars ahead was a guy having trouble with his EZ-pass; his EZ-pass wasn't being recognized by the EZ-pass reader, even as he waved it in front of the machine. The car behind him (and directly ahead of me) honked for me to back up. When I shook my head "no" (the sign clearly says "DO NOT BACK UP--2 POINT SUMMONS") he got out of his car and started yelling at me to back up. I pointed to the sign and said in a calm voice "That's against the law; you can't ask me to break the law". He proceeded to ask me in an irate tone "how long do you plan to wait?". So I responded "I'll wait as long as it takes." Less than a minute later the correct authority arrived to clear up the EZ-pass issue and we were on our way.

I kept to the law, and the guy hated me for that--We can't win, people!

P.S. To be clear, I am NOT saying that we have the right to park illegally or break traffic laws because of this. I'm just saying, the haters will hate us even if we are law-abiding citizens.

12:58 PM  
Blogger Laurel said...

OM can certainly defend herself, but just as encouragement, I say: thank you for being sensible and fair and following logic in your conclusions! This practical sensibility and rational approach is something I've appreciated in Jewish circles, ever since I picked up a newsletter while waiting for sushi at Mendy's and saw fair, reasonable advice being dispensed, even when it was unfavorable for the questioner's religious practice. I continue to read and enjoy your blog for the enlightening window you provide on real Orthodox life.

9:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey, anon 5:59, North Shore is a reform congregation; they were wrong, and you've got to chill out.

9:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm the original poster who asked the question and thank you OM for your thoughtful well phrased response. I take it to heart.

I am also the one who stated that I went to public school, how that equates me to an Iraqi official and a dope is beyond baseless hatred. It's just ranting gibberish and I forgive you.

12:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just curious, as I haven't been reading this blog for long. OM, do you also do posts about all of the Orthodox Jews who park illegally, which is known to be problematic in certain communities? I know they don't drive on holidays, but we all know that there are certain areas where the parking of observant Jews, defying laws, has been problematic.

Or do you just post things where the violators are Reform or Conservative Jews?

12:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the poster who equated this public school dude with the former Iraqi information minister.


This guy needs serious reading comprehension help. I referred to him as the public school dude for the sake of IDENTIFYING HIM, but that is NOT why I equated him with the former minister.

This shmuck should read the last two paragraphs of my previous post for him to understand why I made that equation. -.-

2:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TRYING NOT TO BE ANTI ORTHO HERE: LAW-ABIDING ORTHO
HOW DO YOU EQUATE THAT PERSON YELLING AT YOU TO BACK UP AS HATRED FOR ORTHODOX ? DID HE YELL ANTI-SEMITIC SLURS AT YOU? OR DID HE JUST WANT YOU TO BACK UP. I AGREE WITH THE WAY YOU HANDLED IT YOU WERE RIGHT NOT TO BREAK THE LAW BUT I JUST DO NOT SEE HOW THIS WAS A CASE OF HATING YOU FOR BEING JEWISH. HE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A HATER JUST A JERK IN A HURRY

8:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with everything you said, anon 8:19, but please release your Caps Lock before posting again.

9:32 PM  
Blogger MDmom said...

anon 12.18:

om has mentioned more than a few times, way back before the school district flare-up and the gourmet glatt fiasco, her annoyance at the parking situation on central avenue, in fact dedicating an entire post to a situation in a local parking lot (the cell-phone squatter). i don't have time to set up links but if someone's annoying (or illegal), then they are simply someone annoying -- doesn't matter what their affiliation is.

2:22 AM  
Blogger YoelB said...

Annoying? Illegal? You're being much too kind. It's a huge chillul Hashem, R"L to risk other people's lives in this way and then to seek to excuse it by "we're just doing Judaism here." You think the firefighters are going to say, "Oh, it's second day of Rosh Hashana and these people are driving, so everybody who is Orthodox is OK, it's just these Reform rashas who caused the problem?"

What if it had been pouring rain or sleet on Rosh Hashana, and an Orthodox Jew had been too sick to go out to do Tashlikh, and then driven down to the shore on Sunday or Monday to do it?
Anyone willing to stake his or her Olam Habah on absolutely every Orthodox Jew being sure to park legally even if they still had a sore throat and were running a fever, and didn't want to be out in the cold too long?
"Oh, they may triple park in front of the bakery, and completely block traffic 'just for a minute' so that nobody (oops, maybe that does include a fire engine) but no Orthodox Jew would ever park in front of a fire station like that." Sorry, I bought the Brooklyn Bridge once, I don't need to buy it again.

No, those firefighters are likely to think that's what Jews, and worse, religious Jews are like.

Thank G-d this is America and the firefighters are almost certainly not going to let that thought get in the way of their duty to the public. But this kind of thing is still a chillul Hashem, R"L.

If you, too, are forced to admit that even though this story was about Reform Jews you wouldn't be surprised to see ORTHODOX Jews committing such a public chillul Hashem...

That isn't annoying. It's truly sickening.

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