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Tuesday, July 31, 2007

Sounds Familiar

This rings a bell:
A church has won its battle against a bidet company's racy billboard - and a sanitized version of the cheeky "happy bottoms" ad was put up on the Times Square building that houses the church over the weekend.

The original ad was to have featured an array of bare bottoms with smiley faces painted over them - the idea being that the bottoms were happy from having used the Washlet, a bidet/toilet seat that uses water and warm air to clean its customers.

The Times Square Church, located at 51st Street and Broadway, sued to keep the billboard from being installed.

"You walk into a church building [and] you have naked bodies before your eyes - how are you going to close your eyes and seek God?" the church's pastor, Neil Rhodes, had argued.

A judge signed an order temporarily blocking the ad earlier this month, and the suit ended in a settlement announced yesterday after Washlet-maker Toto apparently saw the light and agreed to have the rear ends covered up.

The new version has a white bar going across the bottoms, "in effect 'clothing' them by removing any hint of their anatomical features," the company said in a statement. The ad now reads: "This is our bottom line," and, "Clean is happy. No ifs, ands, or . . ."

The story rings a bell because I seem to remember an uproar quite a few years ago when a local Rabbi led a protest against the very racy, lifesize ads that were prominently displayed in the window of the local (now closed) branch of the Victoria's Secret lingerie chain.

Honestly, I thought those who protested were 100% justified in that case, and I think the church is just as justified in this one. I myself have had real reservations about heading into Manhattan via certain routes when I have my kids in the car due to what we can call the "billboard situation". I have seen billboards with three-story high photographic reproductions of literally naked models - both male and female - located alongside certain Manhattan approaches. These billboards appear to be advertising items that seem to be depicted nowhere in the frame of the billboard itself (perhaps the models have just taken the advertisers' clothing off - touting to potential buyers their own chances of finding themselves in similar circumstances if they only buy whatever the company's selling? Or perhaps the models are wearing only the perfumes being advertised - and need nothing else?). Either way, I hardly need to introduce my children to the specifics of human anatomy while on a family trip to see dinosaur bones (yeah, yeah, I know - but let's not discuss the dinosaur issue in this thread).

Anyone ever walk through SoHo? The intersection of Broadway, Lafayette and Houston may have some of the absolute most not-safe-for-children's-eyes images plastered across the sides of buildings. Two-story-high cleavage, anyone? I know that advertising is all about the catching the customer's eye. I understand that the more outrageous an ad is, the more memorable to the potential customers it's trying to snare. But in my opinion, billboards have gotten way out of hand. The art of subtlety has clearly been lost - or at the very least, has fallen way out of favor.

It's one thing for these ads to be in the middle of a magazine, where a customer can exercise free will in his or her choice to peruse it. But the days of racy magazine ads causing anyone to bat an eyelash are long gone. Does anyone remember the uproar, way back when, over Calvin Klein's "racy" magazine ads? I think we can all agree that those ads, which were buried in the pages of fashion magazines, were small potatoes compared to the recent billboard I saw for the clothing retailer Abercrombie and Fitch. Let's just say that the model's pants were so low rise that there were probably 2 production assistants on hand hired expressly to hold the pants up for the photo shoot.

Bottom line? I applaud anyone who protests the use of bare behinds to advertise on a billboard - or bare anything. I'm not a prude. As I noted, I don't object to the use of these images in magazines or other such places, which allow individuals to choose not to look. But shouldn't I be allowed to decide whether I want my preadolescent children to be introduced to images that likely would have been considered soft-core pornography not too many decades ago? And shouldn't that choice not to have to entail taking a different route into Manhattan or steering clear of certain intersections? I wish it would.

Discuss.

146 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agreed. And it is not just a religious thing. When the Victoria's Secret on teh Upper West Sied was being protested by UWS residents it was not just the religious neighbors. Plenty of non-religious/non-Jewish residents felt the same way.

4:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whoo hoo, first comment

i have nothing insightful to add. i completely agree. on the magazine issue - i love magazines. i sit in aries for over an hour reading a people, or us weekly, or glamour "waiting" for my nails to dry.

sigh - i won't bring these magazines into the home, because i dont want my children to see the pictures and read the content.

4:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

uhh! someone beat me to the punch!

4:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I live near the Victoria's Secret on the Upper West Side, and I wasn't thrilled that they were coming in. After they opened, I noticed that they made a deliberate effort to make the windows very G-rated, lots of pajamas that were pretty "Donna Reed Show"-ish. Over time, the mannequins have become more scantily clad, and I guess it's because they no longer fear protest.

Truth be told, I just don't care. I rarely notice what's in the windows, and once when my 7 year old son noticed and asked about the meaning of "sexy," we had a chance to discuss it, which really was fine.

Now, frankly, the thing that bothers me more is the fact that my formerly interesting neighborhood is turning into a mall, with all the mall-type stores.

As a feminist and an observant Jew, I don't love the objectification of women. On the other hand, as a feminist and an observant Jew, I don't love the fact that little girls in school should have to wear long skirts, which isn't as comfortable as the pants that the boys wear. Skirts just don't work as well on playgrounds. Not to introduce a new topic, but my point is that lots of things bother me, and depiction of women as sex objects is only one of them.

4:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Being modest doesn't mean that your skirt has to dust the floor.

Being modest inwardly and outwardly is the name of the game.

Billboards are getting slutty and we should not have to feel uncomfortable or cover the kids eyes while passing an advertisement.

In Europe, this is acceptable. Here, it isn't. Go to Milan, you'll see it in window shps, papers, etc. I guess nudity, or degrees of it there is not foreign to them. Their act should be cleaned up here.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, you're such a prude.

7:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was in Paris about 15 years ago and was surprised to see ads and billboards with nearly-naked models everywhere. And no one batted an eyelash.

9:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agree with you 100 percent but just worry about the slippery slope. gross pictures are just that, gross. But there can be just as much filth and immorality conveyed in a suggestive but less overt manner. How do we draw the line? I m interested in some help here.

10:55 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

Having children has certainly made me more sensitive to these displays. It really is getting to be too much.

11:01 PM  
Anonymous Barbara said...

Totally agreed. Sometimes the images my kids are subjected to on their bus routes (I checked) are part and parcel of the "pornification" of America.

What are we saying to our kids? our girls? Whatever happened to modesty being attractive?

Great post, OM!

12:53 AM  
Anonymous Jeremy said...

Anon 4:14-

I'm not quite sure I understand your point- you don't want your kids reading the magazines that you yourself read?

3:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All great comments, but we live in the USA where there is protection for free speech. Free speech protection allows the speaker (or here the poster) to express themselves even if others dont like to see or hear it, sort of like when chabad has trouble placing menorahs on public places, and people say, i dont mind you jews, just not where I can see you.

If we want the freedoms that the USA gives us we sometimes have to take the good with the bad.

7:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, there are always limits to free speech. Pornography isn't covered under free speech. Nor profanity. So what are you geting at? That freedom of expression should cover all forms of advertising and nothing goes over the line? The story that OM gave us at the top of the post shows otherwise. A judge decided that there are limits to free speech.

8:46 AM  
Blogger MoChassid said...

The shul on the beach in Venice California is literally next door to a porn shop.

9:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 8:46,

You are wrong. Pornography and profanity are protected by free speech. Just because certain billboards are taken down or certain words are not commonly said on television, doesn't mean our rights to say certain things on the internet or media are not protected by the constitution. Which is as it should be. Sometimes something you don't like will be protected because it's a slippery slope, and we don't want to lose our rights just to curtail somebody else's use of words or imagery.

What's next, making the newsstand guys sell Vogue in brown paper bags? Sex is a part of life, and it will be impossible to stem the tide on cable television or advertising just because we support modesty. Our children have to live in the real world, and all we can do is teach them how we live, dress and speak, and hope that they will make the right choices. Even in Amish society, children are given an opportunity to choose the Amish lifestyle or to live in the world around them.

We can't be afraid of our kids being exposed to sexual imagery, but if you want to get upset about something, how about getting upset about violence on television? Evidence shows that exposure to violent imagery can create a violent individual. That's more a concern to me that my children will see some cleavage on a billboard and decide that they like sex.

9:40 AM  
Blogger miriamp said...

Sure I'm upset by violence, sex, etc., on television. That's why we don't have one. It's just not a part of our lives, and it is in the nature of television that I was able to just choose to avoid it completely. Television you can choose to watch or not watch, magazines you can choose to read or not read. Billboards are right there in front of you, and you have to see it there to know to close your eyes.

Why can't we "be afraid of exposing our kids to sexual imagery?" Why should a 7 yr old boy have an image in his head of what a grown naked female body is "supposed" to look like? I'm all for my children "liking sex," but not while they are still children. Time enough for that when they're older and married.

10:03 AM  
Anonymous Observer said...

I think we often forget that just because someone has a right to say something, it doesn't mean that they should (Of course, there are legitimate limitations on pornographic and profane speech -- hence FCC limitations regarding nudity and profanity). I don't know why a judge is ordering the removal of adds showing a few tuchi, but I also fail to see why bare bottoms need be prominantly displayed. I think OM's point re: adds showing nude people but not the product being advertised makes the point. Presumably, such adds increase sales (people make a living figuring that out), but I think we should all be asking ourselves why such adds increase sales and what it says about us and our society. More and more, I feel like this is what it was like in Ancient Rome, about 1/2 hour before the Empire fell.

10:08 AM  
Blogger Shifra said...

Call me a prude, but this reminds me of when I wrote a letter to H&M regarding a huge ad outside of Penn Station in NY that judging from the random people around me, I was not the only one who was offended. Of course companies have the right to display ads, but if they see that large groups of the population are turned off by them, then they realize it's in their best interests to take them down as not to offend their own customers. (I am a regular at H&M.)I received a nicely written letter back, saying that they were sorry if I was offended, and that was not the intention of the ad. The ad was actually soon taken down, and I like to think that I had a little part of that.

Also, Jeremy, what's wrong with not wanting kids to be exposed to certain content that some adults are privy to? The content is such magazines may be beneficial to a healthy married couple, but entirely inappropriate for a child.

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

miriamp,

First of all, in not having a tv in your house, you are also not letting in some really incredible programming. There's tons of amazing stuff on PBS, The Discovery Channel, etc. This morning on HBO they reran their incredible documentary, "A Century of Living." It examined the history of this country in the 20th century, as seen through people who were all 100 and older and who were incredible at expressing their memories and their life-attitudes that had helped them lived so far. So you can keep MTV out of your house (which you can do by using parental controls) but you are keeping other things out, as well. And what about the news? There is some value to knowing what is going on in the world, even if tv news is very flawed.

As far as learning about sex when they're married, I don't think that our greatest concern should be about our young boys finding out about it when they're young. Every man I know learned about women's bodies from looking at magazines, and it didn't make them bad husbands or people. I'm not recommending we buy Playboy for our 8 year olds, I'm just saying that if they see a store window or ad that is suggestive (or shows the human body, or an airbrushed version of it) it won't ruin them. The worst part of it is that they get a distorted idea of what women look like, not to mention they may think of women as objects and not people. But it is our job to balance what they see with our beliefs about respecting women and seeing them as people.

We can't shut out the world. Ads sell things, plain and simple. All we can do is help our children understand our values, and hope they respect us enough to really listen.

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeremy 3:58am

Did you really miss the point?! Children are not adults, and they should not read the same material. Do you have any idea how old the child(ren) in that house is/are? As frustrating as it is to see my child exposed at too young an age to certain provocative pictures, it is almost as frustrating to know that (presumably) an adult is too thick to get it. And yes, as a parent, I do have the ability to determine what I think is appropriate for my child(ren). And no, I am not a religious fanatic. Before you respond, if you do, by attacking me, just think about the role of a "parent" as opposed to an adult.

11:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Mrs. OM,
Allow me to put everything in proper perspective.
The rabbi from our community, as well as the pastor in Times Square had a legal right, let's call it freedom of speech/expression, to protest the breach of modesty being publicly displayed in their communities.
The Victoria Secret and "the bottoms" ads both were placed up as advertisements, again LEGALLY. This is a country of freedom, and freedom has its ups and downs.
Does a rabbi or a pastor have a right to protest? 100% and more. But it is interesting to me that a court can 'postpone' having an ad placed up or have it taken down. it is definetly illegal to have nude models on billboards- so there must be some laws which govern this area. did the advertisements go against the existing laws? if they didnt, i dont see why a court has any business getting involved. yes, morally the rabbi and pastor are right, but i am suprised that that can translate to a court order.

11:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A judge decided that there are limits to free speech.


Exactly, but not all sppech can be covered, and even if it is, a court ahs to ook at it not OM or her bolggers

1:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to jeremy:

yup:) im 29 and i love those magazines. it's my guilty pleasure. my girls are 7 and 8 and i don't need them analyzing over lindsey's body or behavior.

hopefully, they'll be better people than i and wont be interested in this kind of shtus.

me, im not there yet.

3:37 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

Regarding publications, you never know when Rupert Murdoch will put another scantily clad woman -- or completely naked people in suggestive positions -- on the cover of his *New York Post*. It has happened at least four times in the past year and a half. I wonder what he will do with the *Wall Street Journal*. Of course, because he supports right wing political causes, he is exempt from criticism. Only liberals can be criticized for lack of modesty.

5:50 PM  
Blogger Abbi said...

anon. 3:37:
I don't think you have to apologize to Jeremy for your guilty pleasure (maybe to God, but I don't think Jeremy is on the same level).

Media that is appropriate for adults is not meant for children. It's as simple as that. And you use your own judgment to decide what's appropriate for yourself.

11:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Mrs. OM,
Allow me to put everything in proper perspective.
The rabbi from our community, as well as the pastor in Times Square had a legal right, let's call it freedom of speech/expression, to protest the breach of modesty being publicly displayed in their communities.
The Victoria Secret and "the bottoms" ads both were placed up as advertisements, again LEGALLY. This is a country of freedom, and freedom has its ups and downs.
Does a rabbi or a pastor have a right to protest? 100% and more. But it is interesting to me that a court can 'postpone' having an ad placed up or have it taken down. it is definetly illegal to have nude models on billboards- so there must be some laws which govern this area. did the advertisements go against the existing laws? if they didnt, i dont see why a court has any business getting involved. yes, morally the rabbi and pastor are right, but i am suprised that that can translate to a court order.

12:21 AM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

HELLO everyone! Did anyone read the actual article??

The judge did not order the sign covered. Once again. The judge did not order the sign covered. The case was settled by the parties involved. If you followed this story from the beginning, the pastor went to court seeking an injunction to stop the erection of the sign.

The judge was skeptical and told the pastor that he needed to study the law on the matter, and that if the pastor wanted the injunction he would have to post a $50,000.00 bond to cover the expenses and lost revenue of the billboard company if the judge ruled against the church.

The church posted the bond.

The parties then settled.

From the article:

"A judge signed an order temporarily blocking the ad earlier this month, and the suit ended in a settlement announced yesterday after Washlet-maker Toto apparently saw the light and agreed to have the rear ends covered up."

12:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you abbi for your support. i agree with you completely.

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But shouldn't I be allowed to decide whether I want my preadolescent children to be introduced to images that likely would have been considered soft-core pornography not too many decades ago? And shouldn't that choice not to have to entail taking a different route into Manhattan or steering clear of certain intersections? I wish it would.

They do have things such as blindfolds.

12:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or keeping your children home all the time. Then, not only won't they be exposed to sexual imagery, but their skin will stay nice and wrinkle-free, without all that sun damage.

1:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a ludacris discussion. If you don't like the billboards then move somewhere where there are better billboards, Israel maybe. Oh I forgot they have these issues there too.

1:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about using this as a teaching moment for your children, both in terms of free speech and how some things are inappropriate by standards in your family and community.

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thats a good idea. hey- while your at it, 9:40PM, why dont you show them ALL the things that are inappropriate by standards in your family and community! it would make for a great educational experience!!!

10:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 10:40 pm, that is not what 9:40 suggested. He/she merely suggested (and this makes perfect sense to me) that since we can't remove things that we might find inappropriate, and since our children will notice them, the best way to handle it is to talk to them about what we think about such things. And it is an opportunity to teach them that we live in a society where we all have free speech, and that this must be protected, even if some of the free speech makes us uncomfortable or angry. If you can't change something, if our children will be exposed to it, we owe them the chance to understand it.

It's that or the blindfold idea above, and that might be impractical.

7:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

or, now i know this may sound shocking..., you can stop taking your kids to the city!! in that case, they wont see these public displays of free speech, and you wont have to deliver and educational lectures to your kids about the stiff that goes on in that zoo.

11:44 PM  
Blogger muse said...

I don't think the "covered" ad is any better.

What about men's right not to shake women's hands?
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2007/08/sexual-harrassment.html

3:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This type of advertising will continue as long as it can be said that "sex sells"!!!

3:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The church won its case because New York has a strong statute on the books which flatly prohibits a billboard displaying nudity, such as bare buttocks. The statute is entitled, "Public Display of Offensive Sexual Material", and it is found at, Penal Law sections 245.10 and 245.11. The violation of the statute is a criminal misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year imprisonment.

Nearly all of the advertisers in New York are aware of this statute, and cleverly get around it. Once in a while, somebody crosses the line, as occurred here.

5:52 PM  
Anonymous psacman said...

OK - a few points to make here.

First of all - guys - this ad was right over a church. The pastor wasn't condemning all racy billboards - although I'm sure he's not thrilled by them. He was bemoaning the fact that his congregants had to see naked bodies atop a house of worship as they were entering to pray to God. Whether or not you think there should be nudity in ads, don't put naked pictures right on top of a church, for God's sake! I feel ridiculous even having to discuss this point.

Then again, in a world where it's considered perfectly OK to put a cross in a jar of urine and call it art, maybe this point does need to be hammered home. Sometimes, it seems that religious Jews and Christians are the only folks on earth not protected by political correctness. (Try putting that ad over a mosque and see what happens...) In any case, I'm glad the bidet people came to their senses.

My second point - as a father of three young children, I'm sick and tired of all the "free spirits" out there telling me how to raise them, and where and when to tell them about the "facts of life". Look - if you want to tell your four-year-old about the joys of sex, I can't stop you. There's no law against terrible parenting. But don't you tell me that my kids need to be exposed to certain things at an early age because "we live in a free society." One of the responsibilities of a free society is the protection of its youngest and most vulnerable members. And, IMHO, I think a vast majority of parents in America feel that there are certain things that young children are not ready to see or hear until they are closer to puberty. That's why there are obscenity laws on the books in the first place. And yes, I know that today's culture is in the toilet, and my kids will inevitably encounter its less savory aspects at some point in their lives. Let me, as a parent, be the one to worry about that; and let me be the one to decide how to raise my own children. Is that asking too much?

10:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raise your children however you please, but don't expect the rest of the world (art, commerce, freedom of speech laws) to do things your way.

If you decide to not tell your kids about sex until they are near puberty, they will hear from someone else. I, for instance, learned all about intercourse (although a much more crude word was usually used) from my frum, yeshivah-going bunkmates at camp when I was seven.

11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of my buddy's recently got into some trouble at a bar and the short story is he was arrested on assault charges which are ridiculous we were there and watched as a random guy came up to him punched him in the face and began repeatedly beating him. He stood up to defend himself and in the crossfire the wasted dude fell and banged his head on the kerb. The cops show up and don't want to hear us and arrest him.
It all got cleared up in the end but had that have gone to court and my friend had to have paid court bonds could he have claimed them back or even sued the police force for wrongful arrest? Also where would be the best place for getting bonded?

10:30 AM  
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