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Wednesday, April 05, 2006

Great Post on Boro Park Riots

Chaim has a great great post up about the riots last night in Boro Park. The point he makes that most hits home with me is that many Hasidim who were interviewed by news outlets claimed that even though the flashpoint for these riots was the alleged mistreatment by police of an elderly driver, they were most upset because "the cops give too many tickets".

Sick.

35 Comments:

Anonymous J said...

Yeah...OM rocking the gothamist comments section.

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM rocks right here. You go, girl!

10:33 AM  
Anonymous taboo said...

Anybody out there commenting actually know what happened, before assuming Mr. Schick is senile, mute, deaf, dumb or just plain difficult? Having grown up in BP, I found the pictures sad and shocking, but rude parking habits aside, I think it takes a lot more to rile up a bunch of generally decent chassidim (remember guys - these folks may not wear read the NY Times online, but they are pretty smart and successful in their own right) to this extent, besides a couple of parking tickets. How about reserving judgment on our own brethren till at least a few more facts come out?

Lots of good posts, OM, but what happened to all that Pesach cleaning?

11:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the enwspapers actully say that he was telling the police that they were being too pysically agressive

11:25 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anybody out there commenting actually know what happened, before assuming Mr. Schick is senile, mute, deaf, dumb or just plain difficult? Having grown up in BP, I found the pictures sad and shocking, but rude parking habits aside, I think it takes a lot more to rile up a bunch of generally decent chassidim (remember guys - these folks may not wear read the NY Times online, but they are pretty smart and successful in their own right) to this extent, besides a couple of parking tickets. How about reserving judgment on our own brethren till at least a few more facts come out?

The facts are out. This man's family and witnesses have said that he had not been beaten. He did resist arrest. Getting out of the car at a traffic stop is grounds for immediate arrest. In terms of what caused the mob to riot, the articles quote witnesses as saying that the erroneous rumor spread quickly that Mr. Schick had been beaten, and that is what caused all the outrage. I am comfortable "judging our brethren" on the basis of their raucos behavior alone. Whether they were riled up for another reason is immaterial. Mob vandalism, assault and arson are never appropriate responses, IMHO.

11:26 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Lots of good posts, OM, but what happened to all that Pesach cleaning?


Blogging is just another way of saying procrastination.

11:27 AM  
Anonymous velt of kelt said...

just thought u guys might want to see some videos, posted on Yeshivaworld.blogspot

11:30 AM  
Anonymous taboo said...

I think your account of his family's position on the beating is inaccurate.

"Blogging is just another way of saying procrastination" (italics stopped working for some reason)

Ain't that the truth. Sleep is overrated anyway.

11:33 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

I think your account of his family's position on the beating is inaccurate.

I don't think it is. Are we talking about being rougher than they feel was warranted, or are we talking beating? Because, though I am not discounting the possibilty that different family members feel differently, as far as I know they do not allege there was any beating or outright assault to Mr. Schick.

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WELL you know how it is the news always makes a big deal out of everything especially if it happened in a jewish community.
anyway. if sich a thing would have happened in a black neighborhood, forget it the riots would have been a disaster. forget about lighting some garbage cans and boxes i am talking about breaking store glasses and stealing killing and so on.
so the jewish community went a little meshigais so what!!!!!

11:51 AM  
Blogger Branch Accepted said...

According to the family, Mr. Schick was mishandled, but not “brutally beaten.”

But based on Mr. Schick’s version of what transpired, I can certainly understand how a bystander may have perceived the event as a beating.

That being said, riots in these types of situations -- even if someone was brutally beaten by a cop -- are (almost) never justified. I will not pass judgment on the rioters, however, as I was not present to witness the events of last night.

I thought you would have let this one go, OM. This is too mainstream, and your blog is so “unique.” You’re just full of surprises.

12:04 PM  
Anonymous taboo said...

Or, more eloquently put, Anon, there'd be major retribution, accusations of brutality, independant investigations being ordered, Al Sharpton on his soapbox calling for the resignation of the police commissioner . . . , for far less in other communities. Yes, this is an embarassment to our community overall, but also a bit satisfying to me to think that we may not ever go like sheep to the slaughterhouse ever again.

12:09 PM  
Blogger Y.W. Editor said...

Felder and Hikind just had a press conf. They repeted word for word what Joseph Esposito, the Chie of the Department said last night. "Get the Fuc*ing Jews Out Of Here!!...I Want Some Heads Rolling...

Although the rioting was a massive Chillul Hashem, he still is a huge anti semite!

YW Editor.

12:19 PM  
Blogger FR5TJew said...

If you don't think this is a Chillul hashem see here. http://p066.ezboard.com/fnypdrant64609frm1.showMessageRange?topicID=31731.topic&start=1&stop=20

1:17 PM  
Blogger DovBear said...

Felder and Hikind just had a press conf. They repeted word for word what Joseph Esposito, the Chie of the Department said last night. "Get the Fuc*ing Jews Out Of Here!!...I Want Some Heads Rolling...

Although the rioting was a massive Chillul Hashem, he still is a huge anti semite!

YW Editor.


Give me a break! They were burning police cars! They were laying seige to a police precient! And the commander who wanted the rioters off the street is an "anti-Semite?" Lose the holocaust complex please. Hitler is dead.

2:21 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

so the jewish community went a little meshigais so what!!!!!


SO WHAT is your attitude towards criminal behavior? Maybe there wasn't looting or killing, but there was destruction of property (i.e. stealing) and assult on officers.

If we don't make it unequivocal to our children that this behavior is WRONG, than we are in for a continual fall.

2:54 PM  
Blogger Mississippi Fred MacDowell said...

>if sich a thing would have happened in a black neighborhood, forget it the riots would have been a disaster. forget about lighting some garbage cans and boxes i am talking about breaking store glasses and stealing killing and so on.
so the jewish community went a little meshigais so what!!!!!

Don't be silly. Black people are manhandled by cops every day.

2:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember once when we found an abandoned suitcase outside of our building, we called 911 for someone to investigate. They NYPD sent a patrol car and as they drove past, an officer yelled "BOOM!!!" on his P/A system.

Years later, on 9/11, when I heard that NYPD officers had died at the scene, a small part of me laughed and laughed.

New York cops are jerks, but you knew that.

3:32 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

Who cares if we didn't have heads bashed in? Who cares if there wasn't other aftermath?

We had mass behavior that was against Torah and was a blight on the community and will continue to hurt the NY Jewish community and beyond for many years to come.

This behavior has left a bad taste in non-Jews mouths, non-religious Jews' mouths, and religious Jew's mouths.

Does it really matter that the bad behavior was a 7 or 8 (on a scale of 1 to 10), instead of a 9 or 10?

3:38 PM  
Anonymous mike said...

Shick was interviewed on 1010 WINS. He says the people who were violent on the streets were shameful. Also, he did not resist arrest, only asked for the cop's name and that he gave the cop his license. http://1010wins.com/pages/22146.php
anyway, lets say shick resisted arrest. why was he being arrested in the first place? for talking on a cell. he says on wins, give me a ticket.

4:03 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

why was he being arrested in the first place? for talking on a cell. he says on wins, give me a ticket

Apparently, he got out of the car. To get out of the car at a traffic stop without being told to by the officer is grounds for arrest, from what I understand.

4:22 PM  
Anonymous mike said...

even if it grounds for arrest, that doesn't mean he had to be arrested. an old man who gets out of the car could be treated with more dignity. something similar happened with 60 minutes Mike Wallace last year.

i happen to think that both the cops and the chasidim on the street are thugs who deserve each other. shick should not have been arrested and the chasidim should not have gone crazy after he was.

4:27 PM  
Blogger DovBear said...

anyway, lets say shick resisted arrest. why was he being arrested in the first place? for talking on a cell. he says on wins, give me a ticket.

He didn't coperate with police at a traffic stop. That's legitimate grounds for arrest. And he asked for the cops name? It's on the badge and the ticket! Give me a break.

4:40 PM  
Anonymous mike said...

the cops say shick didnt give his license and registration. shick says he did. you weren't there and neither was i. if you are a person who always believes cops, i guess you will believe them. my experience with cops is that they are more than often thuggish.

4:43 PM  
Blogger Also A Chussid said...

I would be the first one to criticize the uncivilized behaviors of my own chasidim.

FYI, Mr. Shick is a clean shaven non-chasidic fellow.

No the police officers are not Nazis or anti-Semitic, however they are egomaniacs punks that don’t deserve my respect at all. On the other hand what do you expect to get when the paycheck is $25,000 annually? Hint: punk kids who had to be subdued by Ritalin all their childhood life.

4:48 PM  
Blogger DovBear said...

Most Jews I know tend to think that cops are always right when they're dealing with non-Jews, especially non-Jews of color. But when somethng goes wrong with a Boro Park arrest, suddenly we hear the cries of "Nazi!"

It's all a metter of who's ox is being gored I guess, but I think it sucks.

5:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Most Jews I know tend to think that cops are always right when they're dealing with non-Jews, especially non-Jews of color. But when somethng goes wrong with a Boro Park arrest, suddenly we hear the cries of "Nazi!"
And you, DovBear, tend to think that cops are always wrong when they're dealing with non-Jews, especialy non-Jews of color. But when something goes wrong with a Boro Park arrest, suddenly we hear the cries of "He didn't coperate with police at a traffic stop. That's legitimate grounds for arrest!"

5:17 PM  
Blogger Also A Chussid said...

Dov,

Did I hear myself wrong? I never called the NYPD cops a Nazis. However they are lowlife punks. Not all of them but most of them. And yes they do behave rather harshly and ruthlessly to every citizen of the city, with out discrimination, does that make it right?

5:18 PM  
Blogger DovBear said...

AAC elswhere they were called Nazis.

And anono, I don't know who you think you are speaking to but you are wrong about me. I don't think they are "always wrong" when they deal with black people, and nothing I've ever written would suggest that. (I swear OM, you sure do attract a lot of morons here. (I do, too))

5:38 PM  
Anonymous mike said...

The New York Times has an interview with Shick. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/nyregion/05cnd-protest.html

Arrested Driver Blames Police and Protesters for Brooklyn Melee
By ANDY NEWMAN and MARIA NEWMAN
The man at the center of a melee on Tuesday night in Borough Park, Brooklyn, today criticized both the New York City police and the hundreds of Orthodox Jews who protested in the streets for hours after his arrest, even setting a police car on fire.

Arthur Schick, a 75-year-old caterer who was stopped by police on Tuesday for talking on his cellphone while driving, said he was not aware of the protest that ensued after police hauled him away until he was released from a holding cell at the 66th Precinct house hours later.

In an interview today in his home on East 17th Street in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn, Mr. Schick said both sides were wrong.

"The riots were 100 percent wrong," he said. "Protest is good, but it has to be done in a legal, proper and civil manner.

"I came to Borough Park in 1938," he said. "Such behavior is really uncalled for."

He said he had filed a complaint with the police department's internal affairs office for the way he was handled by the two officers who pulled him over, saying they had roughed him.

The police arrested two men in addition to Mr. Schick, but no serious injuries were reported.

At police headquarters today, Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said he believed the police acted appropriately in the way they handled the matter on Tuesday night, when hundreds of people from the Hassidic Jewish community chanted protests, with some setting bonfires and igniting a police car as word spread that Mr. Schick was being mistreated.

"I believe the response was appropriate to the situation," Mr. Kelly said during a meeting with reporters and leaders from the Hasidic community at police headquarters in Manhattan. "I'm satisfied with the response."

He said two officers were assaulted during the confrontation, including Sgt. Angelo Russo, one of the arresting officers, after someone in the crowd attempted to pull him down during the arrest.

Another officer at the scene, who Mr. Kelly did not identify, was kicked by Chaim Appel, 37, Mr. Kelly said.

Mr. Appel, who faces an assault charge, is due to be arraigned today, a law enforcement official said.

Mr. Kelly identified the third man arrested as Chaim Gillig.

Mr. Schick complained of soreness in his hands today but seemed otherwise fine during the interview, and said he would be seeing a doctor about his injuries suffered when police forced him into a van after they arrested him.

He said the incident began around 6:30 p.m. when he was leaving Schick's Bakery, a neighborhood institution that he owned 40 years ago, after placing an order there for someone he knows.

He said he was driving down 47th Street in Borough Park, about to make a left turn, when "out of nowhere a police car appeared with lights."

Police later said they saw him talking on his cellphone even before he got into his car.

Mr. Schick said one officer approached him.

"He ran out of his car in a very hostile way," Mr. Schick said. "He said, 'Didn't you see my lights?' I said, 'No, I didn't see your lights.' "

The officer told him he had been using his cellphone while driving, which is against New York State law.

He aid the officer asked for his license and registration and insurance papers, which Mr. Schick said he provided. The officer went back to write him a ticket.

Mr. Schick said he then got out of his car to ask the officers for their names. He said one of the officers got out of his police car.

"He said, 'Get back to your car.' I said, 'Officer, can you give me your name and your partner's name?' "

He said the officer grabbed his own lapel and thrust badge towards Mr. Schick.

"He said, 'I'm officer Russo, can't you see it?' But he refused to give me his partner's name. I just said, 'Please give me the name of your partner.' I didn't scream at him. I didn't raise my voice," Mr. Schick said.

"Out of nowhere he started cuffing me," he said.

He said both officers began "pushing and shoving me."

Mr. Schick said a police van arrived shortly, and they asked him to get into it.

"It had a high step," he said. "I asked for help getting in. They wouldn't help me. Instead they pushed me into the seat of the van face down."

He said that by this point there were about 100 people watching and loudly commenting on what was happening.

He said that at the police precinct house, he was held in a room for about four hours, cuffed to a bar and with leg shackles. He said was held for about four hours until they finally let him go.

At a news conference in front of the precinct house, Assemblyman Dov Hikind and City Council Member Simcha Felder said they would ask for an investigation into how the police handled the matter.

But Mr. Hikind seemed to blame both sides for the escalating tension that culminated in the protests and fire.

"The behavior of hundreds of young people lighting fires, destroying trash cans, invading police cars, is inexcusable," he said. "We in the community will address that."

As for the police, he said that if officers had cooperated more with people in the community, the tensions would not have reached the level they did.

"Last night this police department was ineffective," he said.

5:52 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

'they do behave rather harshly and ruthlessly to every citizen of the city'

Actually the Jewish community in the Bronx has pretty good relations with the NYPD.

12:38 AM  
Anonymous anonymous said...

Chillul hashem says OM.
And if anyone knows about doing a Chillul hashem it's orthomom

7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares about the Bronx

1:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Schick is full of crap. He like many other religious people in the neighborhood think they are beneath the law. He threw himself on the floor. The fire that was set in front of Police Department was on the news. He was breaking the law. You take your life in your hand when you are trying to cross the street in Boro Park because both men and women of all races creeds etc are on the phone gabbing.

8:54 AM  
Blogger Angela Dixon said...

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