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Sunday, April 30, 2006

On Jewish and Not-So-Jewish Names

I'm sure everyone has heard that the decidedly non-Jewish celebrities Tom and Katie Cruise inexplicably chose a Jewish name for their newborn daughter, Suri. And not just a biblical name - but a very Yiddish diminutive of the name Sarah. I read about a similar phenomenon over Pesach in the bestselling book Freakonomics. Apparently, when the lists of names given to all newborn babies in the US for any given year were culled, the lists for both boys and girls that were born to parents with the highest levels of education were laden with Jewish names. From the boys' list, out of 20, names, six were Jewish or hebrew, with Dov and Akiva taking the #1 and #2 spots (Elon, Yonah, Tor and Zev round out the group). The girls list included Meira, Aviva, Rotem, Atara and Zofia. I'm not really sure if these lists prove that Jews figure prominently among the most highly educated Americans, or just that Jewish names are very attractive to the most highly educated Americans, but either way, it's a cool little bit of information.

Speaking of Jewish names, I've noticed another amusing phenomenon in my community. I was at the pediatrician's office last week with one of the OrthoKids, and the nurse came out to the waiting room to call some patients into the examination rooms. "Uh...Philip and Natalie?" Silence. "Philip and Natalie Schwartz?" At this, a little boy with a large velvet yarmulka and payos, and his sister, who was wearing a uniform identifiable as being from one of the more religious girls' schools in the area, jumped up just as their mother called out "Nechama and Paysach, our turn!" I mean, come on. We live in America. It is 2006. If the Pakistani child sitting next to me in the waiting room can get called in with the name "Kumar", and the Hispanic child across from me can have the name "Estralita" on her chart, why is it necessary to have Orthodox children addressed as "Philip and Natalie"? What I find even more amazing is the class list from my youngest's playgroup. With names like Gregory, Aidan, William, Samantha, Madison and Grace, it's hard to believe that the playgroup is a decidedly Orthodox one. Interestingly, though, the playgroup is frequented by a more Modern Orthodox crowd, where the names tend to be more Americanized altogether. In my older children's schools, however, which might be considered more right-wing, I can't imagine any children fitting in if they were to go by some of the names of the kids my youngest rolls play-dough with. As a matter of fact, I think to attempt to have your children go by the names "Aidan" or "Samantha" in my older kids' schools would be close to committing social suicide.

Still, one has to wonder why these identifiably Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox parents such as the ones I encountered at the pediatrician's assign their kids such...well, American aliases. Do they expect them to need the names if they go to college or grad school? Who are they kidding? Let's be honest. We are talking Yeshivish city. Their kids aren't going to college. But in all seriousness, there must be a more Jewish permutation of "Paysach" than "Philip", don't you think?

58 Comments:

Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

Their kids aren't going to college. But in all seriousness, there must be a more Jewish permutation of "Paysach" than "Philip", don't you think?

How about Passover? As in Passover Schwartz.

10:42 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

How about Passover? As in Passover Schwartz.

LOLOL. Brilliant, Krum. Brilliant.

10:45 AM  
Blogger FrumGirl said...

This is something that I have always had an issue with. My parents did not give me an "english" name. I was asked many times by friends if it wouldnt be easier to just choose a different name so it would be easier in the secular world. In response I always said..."if people can get away with names like Kamisha and nutty ethnic names of the sort, why should I have to find a different name"? As a matter of fact gentiles always comment on what a beautiful name I have. :-)

Also, imagine my surprise when sitting in role call my first day of Touro College and all the super-frummies had these wacked out english names. I couldn't stop giggling. "Chloe"? I mean COME ON!

10:50 AM  
Blogger Emah S said...

It goes beyond what you find in the ortho community....I once met an Israeli woman who was calling her child Yonatan, but introduced him to people as Jonathan. To me, that was just totally ridiculous.........I mean, it's not like having a simple nickname for the longer name and only using that in private, it's more like a COVER UP, and a bad display of lack of pride for being Jewish.

My kids both have hebrew names, and although i often have to say the names twice to people, they too comment on the beauty of the names or the originality. Just wait till we make aliyah, I think, the originality will go out the window!

...enjoying your blog,
susie (and no, I'm not covering for a home name of shoshala!) :)

10:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it could be that they were sefardim - or 1/2 sefard because they name after grandparents who are still alive and their english names.

11:20 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

it could be that they were sefardim - or 1/2 sefard because they name after grandparents who are still alive and their english names.


Could be - but this is a very common phenomenon in the Ultra-Orthodox world.

11:47 AM  
Anonymous midwestern_gal said...

I know a super-frum, extremely yeshivish family (we're talking brisk, long beach, philly, etc.) with a son named "simcha zev." what's on his license? "william s." that has always cracked me up.

11:58 AM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

I think it's good to have both English and Hebrew names... gives the child more room to grow into an identity if they can grow up to choose in what situations to be Pesahh, and which to be Phil; or even to just go by one and not the other. If you give them just one name, they're stuck with it.
I like the idea of having multiple names, but chosing ethnic-sounding English names, and having a nickname that the child can go by as well. Such as the pair Elyasaf (Hebrew) ~ Elias (English), Eli for short (both).

The Syrian Jews in Brooklyn are known for giving very Early 20th Century sounding English names like Grace and Morris.

My family, btw, is very acculturated, so we have very not-necessarily-Jewish English names. In Israel I ended up going by my English name transliterated because many of the Israelis couldn't handle my Hebrew name, which is one of those Ashkenazic half-Yiddish ones.

Emah S:

Maybe they were just translating. Yonatan in English is 'Jonathan', so they could be just thinking of it as the same name in a slightly different form.

12:16 PM  
Anonymous Not always Shifra said...

Hey! I was going to make that "passover" joke too!
Oh well.

Seriously though I think it's nice to have options. As a job hunter myself I find it's not always best to have a name that's an ethnic giveable (actually non-gender specific naming is also a trend for the very same reason.)

My parents gave both my brother and I English names which we both use regularly.

On the other hand:
My husband and I chose to give our daughters only hebrew names because we really wanted them to USE then and we hope(d) the world was becoming a more tolerance (or at least legally regulated place) however since we live in the US we opted for names that are easy for Americans to promounce (we were wrong there too!)

2:23 PM  
Blogger MDmom said...

i was used to being the only one in my class with a hebrew name -- i have no english name. and my name is quite a "frum/yeshivish" one at that (we are decidedly an MO family). whenever my mom and i went out to boro park to run errands (skirt shopping usually) it would drive me nuts to hear my name being called NOT referring to me!

jackie mason has a routine about this subject -- it's "roll-on-the-floor" funny... my favorite one of his name combos is "crucifix rabinowitz." try that one on for size at the yeshiva!

2:26 PM  
Anonymous Eric (aka Arik) said...

We were Ba'alei Teshuva somewhere between kid #3 and #4. Kids #1, #2 and #3 have completely English names, #4 somewhere in the middle and #5 and #6 have only hebrew names.

When we made Aliyah, #1 and #2 and #4 were the most gung-ho committed tzioni ones, but they were adamant about keeping their English names, which are nicely transliterated on their Teudat Zehut's.

Number #3 wanted to be called by a completely different name, which meant a long wait in line at Misrad Ha'pnim.

Number #5 and #6 were happy keeping their nice Jewish-Israeli sounding names, but then again they didn't even realize that we had moved them to a new country. I still wonder what the 3-year old was thinking the first day we plopped him down into the hebrew-only Gan (BTW he speaks hebrew beautifully now).

Anyway, back to paragraph #1, maybe that explains at least some of it?

2:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your point is beyond moronic. I could care less about what pakistanis are doing. An English name is essential and it doesn't necessarily have to match the hebrew name. It just needs to be there. a study just revealed that African americans with "traditional" African names like Janeel or Shaniqua were less likely to be chosen hired than the exact same candidate with an Anglo name Michael.

Some people say it's racism. I say who cares. The point remains that an English name is preferred and expected, and therefore essential. (I only have a Hebrew name and have never grown sick of having to spell, explain, or repeat my name to people who are not familiar with it).

On this issue, you're looking to make an issue, but you've chosen one that is entirely pointless.

3:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Your point is beyond moronic."

Your comment is moronic. You have your opinion, and OM (and the commenters who commenter before you) have theirs.

3:42 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

"beyond moronic" and "entirely pointless"?

You make some good points Eric but you've got lay off the smacks... weakens your message.

3:46 PM  
Blogger maharal said...

my little girl,maydelle:

Alta Henna Reisl Chavelle...

4:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your comment is moronic. You have your opinion, and OM (and the commenters who commenter before you) have theirs.

Are you suggesting I have some respect for your position just because it was posted before mine? that's a little exclusionary.

Evidently you side with those who choose to saddle their children with the idealism of only giving them a Hebrew name and letting them sort out the discomfort later in life. But that doesn't make those who don't wrong.

The tone of this post and some of the comments to follow makes it sound like it is believed that those who give their children English names are either clueless or hypocritical or both.

I just think that OM and her Yes-men can complain about anything. But why? Is there really such a need to feel superior?

5:18 PM  
Blogger Jewboy said...

Gotta disagree with you on this one. I think it's good to have an English name for use in college, work, and the like. I've known people with names like Chaim and Bracha who used English names in work because a lot of non-Jews can't pronounce the "ch" sound. I learned in Ner Yisroel, and no less a leading figure than Rabbi Yissocher Frand encouraged giving kids English names and said that he gave his own children English names. You can refer to your kids by thier Hebrew names, but it's not a bad thing to have English ones as well.

5:21 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Whoo. I go out to a little league game and this is what I come back to.

1. Insulting an opinion as "moronic" is NEVER good manners. There must be a better way to disagree with someone.

2. This part of the post is actually somewhat tongue-in-cheek (you might be able to guess that from my college comment). I agree that it is prudent to give children an English name when living in the Diaspora. However, I am sometimes amused to see children who look like they are straight out of Williamsburg with names like "Philip" and "Natalie". Many people name their children "Elizabeth" for "Elisheva", "Rebecca" for "Rivka", "Jacob" for "Yanky" etc. When the name has no connection save the first letter, it can be somewhat amusing. Especially with names that have Christian origins.

3. In terms of the Orthodox kids who go only by their completely Americanized, non-Jewish names, even in a Jewish school, I (personally) don't like it. I just finished hearing my kids tell me that we were freed from slavery in Egypt because we didn't change our dress, our language, and our NAMES. If calling your kids Aidan, Scott and Samantha (which have no Jewish connection whatsoever), and treating their Jewish names as their second names isn't "changing our names", what is?

That's my opinion. You don't agree? Fine! But don't call mine or other commenters opinions moronic, and I will extend you the same courtesy.

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK. Moronic was overboard. I'm sorry.

5:43 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

1. I definitely like giving Hebrew names, but if a child has an English name, they should at least know it and be able to respond to it.

2. Certain names probably are quite difficult to use in general society and might be better of stuck in the middle or paired with an English name, if your kid might actually (gasp!) work outside of the frum world. E.g. Certain Yiddish names like Fischel (yes, I know a 4 year old Fischel) or Hebrew names that are near impossible for non-Hebrew speakers to pronouce like Chanoch.

3. It is nice when the English name and the Hebrew name go hand in hand Sam/Shmuel or have some relationship like a first letter in common. It always throws me off to find out that Joshua is Baruch.

8:13 PM  
Blogger Ezzie said...

I was always proud that my English name was "Eliezer" and not something completely whacked. (Ezzie is a lifelong nickname.) OTOH, it's annoying being refered to as Ee-LYE-zer or Eh-LEEZ-er all the time in secular places.

I've always preferred having the real name as the English name; I think it's strange that my friend Jon(athan David)'s real name is not Yonatan or Dovid. Part of it is definitely Jewish pride. But OM, one note about the 'not changing names' in Egypt... that [probably] does not mean that they didn't change their names, but rather their core meaning. Throughout Jewish history Jews change their names; Akiva is really Ya'akov, for example, in Aramaic. But it's meant to mean the same thing.

Last point: Some people may simply have fun with the English names, figuring their kids will almost never use them. We joked about naming Elianna "Condoleeza" in English, until she said something really dumb when Hamas won ("we never foresaw this"). Come on - how cool - a kid in an Ortho school named Condoleeza?! ;)

12:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chidka (a Tanna, by the way -- the rest Amoraim)? Rav Pappa? Surchov? Rav Bibi? The list goes on and on.

Who are they kidding? Let's be honest.

1:35 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

When we made aliyah, my wife and I lived in Jerusalem's Old City Jewish Quarter (when it was maybe one-twentieth of what it is today; talking about 1970 here). Our next door neighbor (a loose term, believe me) was Rav Moshe Tzvi Segel, of Chabad, who was the first Jew to blow the Shofar at the Kotel in 1930 after the British prohibited it (so that we shouldn't upset the Arabs there who the previous year had killed 133 Jews after falsely claiming we were trying to take over the Haram E-Sharif [Har Habyit to us Orthos]). The only kid of his living at home was then 22 or so and was called Yadon (some of his other children were Eligal, YeshavAm, Uzzit, etc.). I asked him why the "oddness" and he smiled and said, "when I cross Jaffa Road and someone calls out 'Hey, Moshe', 20 men turn their heads. But when I call out 'Yadon!', only my son responds." So, our five children are called: Chandi (Chana-Devora), Tzruya, She'era, Nedavya and Aviyah-Ganiel (Gannie).

3:08 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

And as for English names, my late father, Shmuel-Tzvi, was Samuel Harold but my mother and all his relatives and friends called him Harold. When he went into the hospice, all the nurses were calling him Samuel for the first day or so and were surprised when he wasn't responding. We informed them that they would have to say Harold if they wanted any reaction.

3:12 AM  
Anonymous Essie said...

I think anyone with a hard to pronounce name is at a slight disadvantage in many situations--drivers license, college, doctor's office, etc. My friends and family members with "Ch" names in particular have a hard time. If your name is easy to pronounce like Esther or Bayla or something, or if it translates very easily, like Shmuel/Samuel or Dovid/David, that's fine. But if it's Chaim, do your kid a favor and give him an English name.

9:19 AM  
Blogger Outoftown said...

When our son was born, I wanted to name him Shmuel Aryeh on his birth certificate, but my husband insisted on namimg him Samuel. His family are all big believers in having an English name, just in case. So, there is one person who calls him Sammy, and when we go to the doctor, he is Samuel, but we call him Aryeh every where else. I guess that could be pretty confusing for a lot of people, but in the futute, I think it will help him to be able to use whichever name is better suited to the situation (college, job, etc).

However, when our daughter was born, and we named her Sima Bracha, we put Sima on her birth certificate. Sima is easily pronounceable and doesn't seem so frummy. Also, we couldn't think of a good english equivilent.

12:13 PM  
Anonymous willendorf said...

I wonder whether Natalie's mommy and totty realize that her name is a reference to Xmas.

1:05 PM  
Anonymous jerusalemom said...

Oh, the troubles of galut-
wow this conversation is so foreign to me and I only made aliyah 6 years ago. I have two daughters now with two beautiful Hebrew names and not an English name anywhere in their identity. (Their Hebrew names are transliterated in English on all of their documentation). I'm not worried in the least about their prospects for success in college or life. If anything, an English name would make their lives more difficult.

Yo, you guys are living in the way way past. Plenty of Israelis with very Hebrew names make it very big in business without any trouble.

1:06 PM  
Blogger Mississippi Fred MacDowell said...

R. Shmuel David Luzzatto named one of his sons Philoxene, which was Latin for "Oheb Ger," the name of one of his works, a translation of Onkelos.

1:25 PM  
Anonymous Baal Habos said...

> Nechama and Paysach


Bad example. The English names might be necessary is cases where the original Jewish names are unpronounceable by non-Jews.

2:31 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Bad example. The English names might be necessary is cases where the original Jewish names are unpronounceable by non-Jews.

I totally hear that. It was just a particularly amusing example because the names were so different from their english counterparts.

2:34 PM  
Blogger LkwdGuy said...

When I was first hired at my current job, I was asked by a Jewish coworker what name I planned on going by. I responded that if the indians in my company can all use their indian names and the russians use their russian names, why shoul I not use my Jewish name? We had a Jose, an Akshay and a Sasha, why can't we have a Aryeh? [note: not really my name].

Side note: I once saw my Rosh Yeshiva's drivers license. It had his english name on it. (He was known by that name at age 16 when he probably got his license).

Side note II: My mother has a non-Jewish coworker who told her that her son's name is Shmuly. It seems she was at a park in Lakewood when her son was three years old. There were lots of jewish kids playing there. One kid was named Shmuly and her kid liked the name and refused to answer to anything else. He is now 25 years old and in jail but known to his family as Shmuly.

4:28 PM  
Blogger Neil Harris said...

Great psot, Orthomom! Names are funny. I've got frum friends who will b'davka pick jewish, but "secularly acceptable" names like: dov, rena, eli, shlomo. I'm a bit stuck. My given name is Neil Solomon, but my parents (non-observant) named me "Nissan Zorach". Nissan isn't even Hebrew, it's Babalonian. Just my luck. My childrens' names are hebrew, but fairly pronouncable.

4:32 PM  
Blogger Soccer Dad said...

More Jewish than Phillip?
How about Paul?

5:08 PM  
Anonymous Jeff said...

The Supranos has a character who goes by Hesh. Hesh is a small time neighborhood loan shark and promoter of illegal events. But he is know as "Hesh" Not Harold

6:01 PM  
Blogger Chana Meira said...

Shalom, just came along your good post. It runs along the lines of conversations that come up within my circles from time to time, especially in the context of Jewish identity and pride in one’s country or being an American Jew.

For me personally, my name represents who I am, so I have no desire and feel no need to go by another, even for convenience. I have had no problems with non-Jews, institutions, business clients, etc. in this regard. If needed, I correct them, they note the name is pretty, and they continue to use it (fully and correctly).

Now, oddly enough, some within the religious community ask if they may address me with a name that is “easier.” I assume they ask because it is tiresome having to call every other woman they meet or talk to by not one, but TWO, Hebrew names… ‘Devorah Leah.’, ‘Chaya Rivka,’ … : )

Still, I am a firm believer that people do what is expected of them, if we do not give them a way out, such as resorting to English names. Our Hebrew names are beautiful. Let people stumble once or twice trying to get them right, and then accept it.

Shabbat Shalom,
Chana Meira

2:04 PM  
Anonymous MRN said...

Hanging my head in shame.... four kids (k''ah), four English names on the birth certificates.

12:53 AM  
Blogger eem said...

BTW, Natalie has become a fairly common name in Israel; I don't think anyone realizes the connotation. I think that actually sometimes the more yeshivish and/or sheltered the home is, the more parents tend to call kids by their English names in all kinds of settings- sort of a "since we have nothing to do with them, they won't understand our Hebrew names and we better use the English ones." A funny side of a probably not bad lifestyle.

3:31 PM  
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Anonymous Hesh said...

Do you think that some people have gotten the idea that Jews arent liked that much and the would rather not be out into a concentration camp due to their religious sounding name. Maybe that is a little much, but Jews unlike many other groups are not trying to force people to be able to pronounce names like Breindel and Yanky, and when the person doesnt gaet their name right we dont turn aound and yell Racist or Anti Semite at the persom who sincerely had trouble with the name.

On the opposing side. It seems that folks at least in my expereince are more willing to pronounce black names than Jewish ones- perhaps for the reason mentioned above so perhpas we shuld bring on the barrage of Jewish names and watch those goyim stutter and mumble something while we make them feel stupid. Ok that all made no sense. Good post.

8:52 PM  
Anonymous gross said...

OM,

Great, original topic. Names are incredible and it's so interesing when some find one name beautiful while others would consider it downright ugly. It's so often based on who the name is asscociated with, no?

I think a secular name that is very different than the Jewish name is kind of fun. How boring is Shmuel-Steven, or Moshe-Martin. Steven or Martin is not remotely Jewish so why be limited to those. Mix it up a bit...

Anyway, what makes a name Jewish? Is it Jewish because it is mentioned in the Torah? Or, if Jews have used it for generations, then it must be Jewish by default. Take Shprintze, for example. That name is Yiddish for Esperanza. I have news for you: Mindel is not a Jewish name either. Yiddish names aren't rooted in Judaism. Shprintze is as Jewish as Stacey or Lauren (which, according to my gentile colleague are "very Jewish names.") Do you see where I'm going with this?

6:59 PM  
Anonymous Philip said...

I think we live in an America that is more acceptant of diversity and culture than our grandparents lived in, which was war torn and full of hatred for anything less than "anglo" in standards. Even in the free country of America, everyone wanted to get to Ellis Island and then blend in from day one to the white anglo christian run world here. Many Reformed Jews did change their names and apperances to fit into the vastly Christian dominated culture for commerical, social and political acceptance. It was easier for Ashkenazi Jews to assimilate than blacks who were born here into the American mainstream in the 50's and 60's. All it took was a name change. Weiss became White, Schwartz became Black, and Klein became King, Maniloff became Mayer. It is good to have names that reflect culture, past and tradition in America. Everyone is doing it, the Johns are now Seans for the Irish, the Anitas are the Anistasias for the Greeks,Rose is Rosalinda for the Italians. I just wonder who in hell created the name Homer, and how that would translate to any culture?

12:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's reform Jew, not "reformed" Jew. We're not talking about ex-convicts, here.

9:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i can't believe that thru this whole discussion nobody brings the essential fact that one's hebrew name comes from HaShem. it is the vessel to receive the flow from shemayim. the spiritual reasons to use one's hebrew name are numerous and significant. read the short footnote in the artscroll siddur under "giving the name".
people people people!!! let's deepen the discussion here!

12:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was looking for information in regards to names in Hebrew/Jewish for Grandparents to be. Very interesting site that I came upon and I read all the comments in regards to people and their own names. Why in the worold does it have to be a Jewish name, or Hebrew name or whatever. Why not just a name you like and one that you can read and prenounce. I do feel that some of them are way out there. If you live in an all Jewish community or area it makes sence and everyone knows what your name means or stands for. But, that is just my thinking. My in-laws insisted on naming my son after the last one in the family that passed on. Most tell you my son has hated his name all his life and where he lives they make fun of his name. I'm sorry that we did and he now goes by his middle name, which is David. We should have done this years ago which would have caused less embarrasement for him.

2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great topic!

As a BT I've had pressure to go by my Hebrew name (Batyah)..which is pretty, but holds very little identity to me since I only even found out what it was the week before my Bat Mizvah!! I only use it during davening/holidays/with friends who speak Hebrew and have trouble with my other names. The one I was given is a very secular and rarely used English name that is hard for people to pronounce (Jillian)because my mother fell in love with it. And just my luck! My family is Russian speaking and can not pronounce EITHER name properly so I have a third made up name for Eastern European speakers (Yulia).

Names a really fickle thing. I don't believe anyone should be judged based on what they go by or what their legal name is. There is beauty in an ethnic name and there is beauty in an adopted name!

5:31 PM  
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