School District News
There's an article in the Long Island section of the Sunday New York Times that some Lawrence School District residents might find interesting. The piece discusses the high salaries that some public school administrators on Long Island receive. Lawrence has the distinction of being one of only ten Nassau County school districts that have at least 7 administrators receiving salaries above $104,000 per every 1,000 students (graphic here). Now, let me be clear. It is far from my place to begrudge District #15 the right to hire good administrators by offering some of the most competitive salaries in the county. But the fact that they do so raises two points.
First, the Public Schools have been crying poverty due to the rejection of budgets in the last few elections, which have forced the district into 3 years of austerity budgets. That is somewhat hard to take seriously when they are still managing to find the money to pay their admistrators and teachers at what are among the highest salary rates in Nassau County. Clearly, the "austerity" budget is not forcing SD #15 to be as austere as we are being led to believe.
Another point that the article brings up is in reference to the high salaries received by administrators in another Nassau County school district, Commack. The district defends the high salaries by noting the high performance of its students on standardized tests:
Update: A reader e-mails me some links that give some more background on teachers' and administrators' salaries in the Lawrence School District, and how they compare to salaries in other districts: I, II, III, IV (NYS annual report comparing all districts), V (NYS school administrators' salaries by district).
Update II: Here are three tables (1, 2, 3) that outline per student spending in every Nassau County school district. Lawrence is #1 in Nassau County in the overall expenditures per student, and among the few highest in the state.
First, the Public Schools have been crying poverty due to the rejection of budgets in the last few elections, which have forced the district into 3 years of austerity budgets. That is somewhat hard to take seriously when they are still managing to find the money to pay their admistrators and teachers at what are among the highest salary rates in Nassau County. Clearly, the "austerity" budget is not forcing SD #15 to be as austere as we are being led to believe.
Another point that the article brings up is in reference to the high salaries received by administrators in another Nassau County school district, Commack. The district defends the high salaries by noting the high performance of its students on standardized tests:
Dr. Hunderfund, the Commack superintendent, said he has received 7-percent raises in each of his 12 years on the job, but only because he met the expectations of the school board. The share of Commack graduates earning Regents diplomas rose to 94 percent in 2004, from 49 percent in 1989. Most districts in the state improved their Regents diploma rates over that time, but only a few others showed the jump that Commack did.In contrast, a criticism that has frequently been leveled SD #15 is district students' poor scoring on standardized tests. Many district residents feel that continuing to throw money at poor performance is simply not as strong an incentive as the system practiced in districts such as Commack which reward administrators and teachers for their students' good performance. I have heard voters here say that would like to see test scores rise in step with salaries before they approve another budget. I think they have a point.
Update: A reader e-mails me some links that give some more background on teachers' and administrators' salaries in the Lawrence School District, and how they compare to salaries in other districts: I, II, III, IV (NYS annual report comparing all districts), V (NYS school administrators' salaries by district).
Update II: Here are three tables (1, 2, 3) that outline per student spending in every Nassau County school district. Lawrence is #1 in Nassau County in the overall expenditures per student, and among the few highest in the state.
posted by orthomom at 11:21 PM
65 Comments:
I eyeballed one of the tables; the Lawrence salaries didn't seem out of line compared to other suburban school districts. The fact is, if they get too low, all the good people will get better jobs, and you will be left with the mediocre ones. That is one of the things that plagues NYC schools -- its salary structure for teachers and administrators is quite a bit below most suburban districts (and the cost of living is just as high).
Regarding standardized tests, those of us in education have long known that they are much more a function of the demographics of the parents rather than of anything the school does. If I ever work in a school district that adopts a pay for performance plan based on standardized tests, I would put a lot of energy into convincing parents with earned doctorates to move into the district.
eyeballed one of the tables; the Lawrence salaries didn't seem out of line compared to other suburban school districts.
Well, that depends to which suburban school districts you are referring. Lawrence is in the top ten in both administrators' and teachers' salaries. That may not seem "out of line" to you, but if you were to hear the cries of poverty from the district, basically saying that the austerity budget is forcing them to educate district students on a shoestring, and had you witnessed the shlashes in services provided to students that have gone on here, I think you would feel differently.
The district proposed a $5 million budget increase, and they are sitting on a $7 million surplus, at the same time they are threatening more and more cuts. Threy either have the money to provide kids with what they need - or they don't.
Let's change the focus away from private school students for a second. Public school parents should be outraged at these threats to cut programs and services to their children at the very same time that teachers at the very same time that teachers and administrators are demanding what are easily among the highest salaries in the state.
The last few tables you linked, with expenditures per pupil show SD15's official numbers as the highest in the county. In reality, the expenditure per student is now much higher than the stated 23,500, given that (1) the data is from the latest report, issued in July '05, which reflects '03-'04 data, when student enrollment was higher and the budget was lower and (2) the superintendent manipulates this number every year to make it seem like the district's spending less than it actually is, as follows:
The basic equation is total budget minus special ed. costs for public and private students minus private school costs. That number is then divided by the number of public school students.
In most districts, the calculation is very simple because the private school population is so insignificant. In our district, the Superintendent likes to take advantage of the private school majority by making a ridiculous assumption that the private schools' students account for much of the district's administrative/soft costs. By doing that, he manages to subtract far more for private school students than what is actually be used by private school students - busing, textbooks and a couple of odds and ends.
Do not allow me to refocus the conversation, but only 7 administrators are receiving over $104,000 in salary?
Maybe someday I will post about the salaries being paid to the administrators in our frum schools. And, not one is supervising over 1,000 students.
SephardiLady, it's 7 administrators per 1,000 students, not 7 administrators in total.
'not one is supervising over 1,000 students'
There are some schools in New York that have enrollments in the thousands.
The Lawrence superintenent recently got new contract and a raise (for all his success in the district) and is now nearing $300k with benefits
Our Lawrence teachers have a clause in their contract which requires them to be paid within the top 10% of teachers in the county (regardless of how the students or taxpayers are faring). With their current salaries, they're evidently well into the top 10 percent, but what kind of an insane provision is that to include in a teachers' contract?
And which morons keep voting for the school board candidates that the teachers endorse?
If that's not corruption ...
Anon-My apologies.
"Our Lawrence teachers have a clause in their contract which requires them to be paid within the top 10% of teachers in the county."
I'm a Lawrence teacher recently turned onto this site. First of all, this comment is totally incorrect. There is no such provision in our contract. Secondly, Charlie Hall is right. Lawrence is slowly becoming a NYC school. Top teachers and administrators go to the best districts, oftentimes using the city as a stepping-stone. Lawrence, once a final destination unto itself, is becoming a stepping-stone. High salaries or not, teachers, as all people, want to work in an environment where they feel respected for their commitment. Many incredible Lawrence teachers have left, or are looking to flee.
Orthomom, you stated, "First, the Public Schools have been crying poverty due to the rejection of budgets in the last few elections, which have forced the district into 3 years of austerity budgets. That is somewhat hard to take seriously when they are still managing to find the money to pay their admistrators and teachers at what are among the highest salary rates in Nassau County. Clearly, the "austerity" budget is not forcing SD #15 to be as austere as we are being led to believe." The district must live up to its contractual obligations, as well as all state and federal mandates. Whatever money is left, under austerity, can only be spent in particular ways. The high school auditorium is unsafe to use. Leaks permeate the ceilings of most, if not all of the buildings. Computers cannot be upgraded because of austerity limitations. The list goes on. It seems from your comments that if the district had the power to do so, they should fix these problems by cutting teacher salaries. I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm pretty sure you feel as though you have earned your income and that you are worth the expense to your employer. I know that I have worked very hard in my life to attain a teaching position that pays me commensurate to my education and ability. If I don't say so myself, I feel that I am an outstanding educator. By the way, I am not living large, either. I have a mortgage to pay, have a family to feed, and pay very high taxes. I make enough money to be comfortable but remain frugal, as do most people that live on this exorbitantly priced island.
Be careful for what you wish for. If teachers continue to be demonized, how is our nation expected to attract the best and brightest of our young people into the profession? This is, in my opinion, a national crisis, with Lawrence being a perfect microcosm. Instead of criticizing teachers for reaching the top of their profession, criticism should be leveled at politicians on both the federal and state levels. While mandates increase, the feds have made millions of dollars in cuts to education. The responsibility to fulfill these mandates therefore falls on the localities who have no alternative but to raise taxes. The state is also to blame for using an antiquated system to figure out the amount of state aid received by each district, a system that puts suburban districts in Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester, among others, at a distinct disadvantage when compared to districts in other parts of the state. Property values are used to determine the relative wealth of a community, and state education aid is doled out accordingly. Under this system, Long Island is considered a high wealth area, leading to a decrease in state funds. The problem with this is that salaries have not kept up with property values. Therefore, taxes go up, that many people simply cannot afford to pay. Young adults are increasingly moving off of the island because they can no longer afford to live hear.
As I previously stated, we need to encourage the best and brightest amongst us to become teachers, especially in this increasingly competitive global economy. Blaming teachers for the economic ills of a community will certainly not help the well being of the community, as those that are able to leave for greener pastures will, and graduates of our nations best universities will continue to shun education in even greater numbers than they already do. Then, may I ask, who will be left to educate our future business, political, and community leaders? Reform is needed in a major way, and I await the politician with both the will and fortitude to confront it.
Shifting the blame, while picketing for more salary increases.
... Just another sleight of the hand.
I would kill for a job in the Lawrence school district and just about everyone else on this blog would too. Anyone for a survey?
Let all the Lawrence teachers flee the district (Not going to happen in a million years with these salaries) and then maybe the level of teachers' salaries will be dicated by some semblance of reason.
Which Yeshiva administrator is getting paid less than 150k? Yeshiva teachers are starting to get paid top dollar--and they desrve it too. But all the yeshiva parents are crying and getting choked by ever increasing tuition bills. But let's make sure that the public school administrators & teachers get their salary halved.
That's fair. After all it's only our society that will suffer not us FRUM jews.
By the way, did you happen to read that Lawrence High School tied Bronx Science for INTEL winners (6) this year.
I guess ORTHOMON you only read the Jewish papers.
'If that's not corruption ... '
Nope, its called democracy.
'how is our nation expected to attract the best and brightest '
Connecticut did something about this in the 1980s, after generations of mediocre public schools. The two biggest components of what they did were (1) a huge increase in salaries for teachers, and (2) higher standards in the education departments of the public universities. (2) would have been impossible without the larger number of students attracted to the profession by (1).
'I would kill for a job in the Lawrence school district and just about everyone else on this blog would too.'
If you are a good teacher, go ahead and apply!
no one is questioning that Lawrence produces results for the top percentile of students. I don't think that Orthomom was at all critical of that success. The issue is that the Lawrence School District every year pleads poverty and tries to raise taxes but somehow in the end finds a surplus. The real problem is that the teachers and administrators complain about cuts to our students' programs but seem unable to comprehend that it is their very compensation that is driving taxes skyward. While I understand the LTA's desire to cut the best deal for its members they need to be realistic about what School District 15 can afford.
Now that we have an understanding of how the district's teachers are actually the reason for any success that this district sees, why not Stephen Clements for school board? Wouldn't that be a fine way to reward our teachers and preserve the ever-present self-dealing in the district that Charlie Hall terms "democracy"?
I used to teach in the Lawrence District. There is no way I'd go back. Why? There is absolutely no job security for young teachers. Try attracting good teachers in the next 3-4 years. It won't happen.
I'm a little curious why you decided to personalize the issue by focusing on what you imply are excessively high administrator salaries. The table you cited (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1692/991/1600/2005Nassauexpenditureperstudenttable.jpg) indicates that Lawrence spends 77% of its budget on "instructions" (I guess that's teacher compensations) and 2% of it's budget on "central administration" (which I suppose includes executive salaries.) These seem to be in the middle of the pack of all the school districts in the county. Let's face it, given that the school district has a ~$44 million annual budget, a few administrators who make a few tens of thousands more per year than you think they deserve isn't going to cut the budget enough to lower your taxes.
And these guys shouldn't be compensated on the basis of the test scores statistics. The test scores (or, to be more precise, the amount of learning) are the responsibility of the students, not the teachers or administrators. Teachers are hired to show up in class, teach, grade student work, and be available to some degree for individual consultations with students. Administrators are hored to manage things and keep the district functioning. Their pay levels should be based mainly on supply and demand. Incentivizing their pay on the basis of something out of their direct control seems foolish to me.
Let's face it, given that the school district has a ~$44 million annual budget, a few administrators who make a few tens of thousands more per year than you think they deserve isn't going to cut the budget enough to lower your taxes.
Sorry, this needs to be rewritten:
Let's face it, given that the school district has a ~$44 million annual budget, cutting off a few administrators who make a few tens of thousands more per year than you think they deserve isn't going to cut the budget enough to lower your taxes.
Administrators are hored to manage things and keep the district functioning.
Whoops, another mistake. I guess it's the fault of the overpaid unionized public school teachers and administrators back in my old school district.
The correct wording is:
Administrators are hired to manage things and keep the district functioning
I just found this site as I was researching the cost per pupil for nassau & suffolk counties by district to see what seems to be an out of control situation of rising school budgets and falling enrollment in some districts...Lawrence I heard has dropped enrollment numbers consistently while raising the budget requests... how does that work?
Meanwhile does anyone doublt that being a teacher is one of the cushiest jobs around? You work 180 odd days a year while the rest of us work about 260 day a year some more than that, the work day is shorter and the pension and health benefits are quite competitive. I have a friend that retired from teaching in Oyster Bay with over 90 T a year pension. He taught Phys Ed, Driver Ed, and coached some teams all for extra pay and had plenty of time off to do small construction jobs on the side. It's time to admit that teachers are overpaid in the public sector.
The school district budget has so much fat let them cut some of the tennis and other extras these kids have. I have to pay for my kids to get enrichment if I want it while paying taxes and tuitions. Congrats to District 15 maybe some sanity will break out!
I've heard that money those schools receive is dirty, I don't know what, first I have to get more information because that's so dangerous.
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