School Board Sneakiness
The outgoing school board in our district has one last meeting scheduled for this Tuesday evening before the newly elected board is seated.
Rumors abound that they will attempt to sign a new teacher's contract in the eleventh hour of their term, and indeed, a source close to the negotiations tells me that pushing through a new 5-year contract is definitely on the agenda for Tuesday night's board meeting. Clearly, this would be the last chance for the teachers union to negotiate another sweetheart deal along the lines of those they have negotiated in the past - giving them salaries that have consistently been among the highest in the state - a deal that they would have next to no chance of negotiating when the new board members promising fiscal responsibilty take their posts. The problem with the prospect of a last-minute deal is the clear fact that the voters have spoken regarding the district's misuse of taxpayers funds.
If underhandedly signing another bloated teachers' contract when the voters have spoken isn't a subversion of the will of the people, then I don't know what is. The public has clearly not given a mandate to the outgoing board to sign a contract that locks us in for another 5 years. The previous contract is one of the factors that has put this district into the precarious financial position we find ourselves in today. What many people from the so-called "public school community" may not realize is that the new bloated contract, which according to a source, includes the same much-criticized system of annual double pay raises for every teacher, no performance incentives (a concern in a district with such disappointing test scores), as well as a clause that caps class size (which would effectively prevent the district from closing any of its underutilized buildings as has been proposed as a huge source of revenue for the district, most recently just this past week by the school superintendent himself), is more likely to be the cause of cuts in programming and sports in the public schools than the austerity budget has been.
I am all for negotiating a competitive contract to entice the best teachers to stay in this district. But the outgoing board is treating this negotiation as if it were as simple an action for a lame duck elected official as a last-minute pardon by an outgoing president. And as an action that affects the financial health of the entire district, it isn't.
Rumors abound that they will attempt to sign a new teacher's contract in the eleventh hour of their term, and indeed, a source close to the negotiations tells me that pushing through a new 5-year contract is definitely on the agenda for Tuesday night's board meeting. Clearly, this would be the last chance for the teachers union to negotiate another sweetheart deal along the lines of those they have negotiated in the past - giving them salaries that have consistently been among the highest in the state - a deal that they would have next to no chance of negotiating when the new board members promising fiscal responsibilty take their posts. The problem with the prospect of a last-minute deal is the clear fact that the voters have spoken regarding the district's misuse of taxpayers funds.
If underhandedly signing another bloated teachers' contract when the voters have spoken isn't a subversion of the will of the people, then I don't know what is. The public has clearly not given a mandate to the outgoing board to sign a contract that locks us in for another 5 years. The previous contract is one of the factors that has put this district into the precarious financial position we find ourselves in today. What many people from the so-called "public school community" may not realize is that the new bloated contract, which according to a source, includes the same much-criticized system of annual double pay raises for every teacher, no performance incentives (a concern in a district with such disappointing test scores), as well as a clause that caps class size (which would effectively prevent the district from closing any of its underutilized buildings as has been proposed as a huge source of revenue for the district, most recently just this past week by the school superintendent himself), is more likely to be the cause of cuts in programming and sports in the public schools than the austerity budget has been.
I am all for negotiating a competitive contract to entice the best teachers to stay in this district. But the outgoing board is treating this negotiation as if it were as simple an action for a lame duck elected official as a last-minute pardon by an outgoing president. And as an action that affects the financial health of the entire district, it isn't.
posted by orthomom at 9:13 AM
145 Comments:
The outgoing board wants to stick it to the Jews with this new contract. It should fuel conflict for years to come.
The outgoing board wants to stick it to the Jews with this new contract.
Evidently, the outgoing board wants to stick it to anyone who cares about fiscal responsibility - Jews or not.
Simple.We have courts.get an injunction.
"Yeah, that ought to streamline things. I'm sure with enough lawyers you can get those test scores right up there."
Going to court actually makes a lot of sense here, as all the anti-contract side has to do is run out the clock on the current board - and who better to delay and waste everyone's time than lawyers?
It is an old Tradition-albeit to me a despicable one for administrations on the way out to set in stone as much as possible-eg Guiliani attempting sweet heart deals with Yankees, the classic midnight appointments which ked to Marbury v. Madison etc. It is not anti-Semitism.It is taking power to the limits-of course administrations when they come into power try the same thing-classic US Presidential executive orders the first hour of an administration.
mycroft:
I didn't say it was anti-Semitic. But I agree with you that it is despicable. But this is different than last-minute pardons, because in a case such as this, they are leaving an entire district holding the bag as far as the fallout from the new contract goes. Their eleventh-hour power play is leaving 5 years of ramifications in its wake.
Seriously, if it's only one more meeting, and everyone knows about it, can't you 1. flood the hall with supporters of the new board, and 2. filibuster until they give up?
"was anti-Semitic. But I agree with you that it is despicable. But this is different than last-minute pardons, because in a case such as this, they are leaving an entire district holding the bag as far as the fallout from the new contract goes. Their eleventh-hour power play is leaving 5 years of ramifications in its wake"
All last minute decisions are intended to set the stage for a long time-classic in my memeory-Isuspect youre too young. In the last working day of the LBJ administration the DOJ filed an anti-trust suit against IBM-right at the beginning of the Reagan administration they dropped the case.
Many cases like that-thats the way business is done-you are in power until you are no longer in power. BTW haven't you seen that same behavior in schuls-where Shul prez's would obligate a schul at the last minute on questionnable activities-that is the way power operates as Lord said.Power corrupts absolute power corrupts...
BTW Mom of 4-last minute regulation actions common during lameduck periods are done precisely to set things in stone for even longer than 5 years.
mycroft - power corrupts, absolute power is pretty cool really
The outgoing Lawrence school board's childish trick -- to saddle its politically different successor with untenable conditions out of sheer spite, to undermine the election winners politicially -- is sort of like the way Bill Clinton issued his flurry of executive orders his last days in office. There was not JUST the unconscionable pardon of the unrepentant swindler Marc Rich, but also after doing absolutely nothing about it for seven years, 11 months and three weeks and four days of his term, suddenly issuing a last-minute order slashing the level of permissible arsenic in water from 50 ppm (parts per miillion), the allowed standard since the early 1940s) to 10 ppm. Bill's tricky move gave the incoming administration the Hobson's choice of either going along with an unexpected major change that would cost American industry and municipal water utilities (and thus, the economy and ultimately, U.S. taxpayers and consumers), tens of billions of dollars, or else nullifying the order and reaping a political firestorm, which is exactly what happened (Democrats accused Bush of "raising" the limit and wanting to "poison children to boost corporate profits", -- never mind the inconvenient fact that the old 50 ppm standard had been good enough for Democratic presidents FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter and, for almost all of his term, Clinton, as well as all of the Republicans who came in between). It was good, tricky partisan politics -- but still, PRETTY SNEAKY.
Great post Mom. I think every concerned sd#15 voter on every side of this debate should show up at tomorrow night's meeting.
"The outgoing Lawrence school board's childish trick -- to saddle its politically different successor with untenable conditions out of sheer spite, to undermine the election winners politicially -- is sort of like the way Bill Clinton issued his flurry of executive orders his last days in office"
Bill Clinton did-and so did, Bush ! Reagan, Carter, Ford, LBJ-I was alive for Truman leaving and Eisenhower-but my political memory is essentially non existent for such things back then.
While technically the 'lame-duck' Board has the authority to make the deal, its not right to do so when it violates the very platform for which it was voted out.
I agree very sneeky, but they do not get two pay raises. One is the annual "raise" the other is a step improvement which is state law. Step = How many credits go over the bachelors level or masterst level. My friend who is a teacher advised me to go to the below site and look at salaries on Long Island. At the BA level we are # 36 on Long Island, other levels we are better we certainly are not the best paid teachers on Long Island. Oceanside definitely is the place to go. I agree the district should know when negotiations go on, but to say it is to stick it to the Jew's, when most on the board are Jewish is not correct. Also, #5 school was #1 in math on Long Island for the second year in a row. They also had most of the students pass the english. The #6 school went up from 68% to the 86%, with a 36% poverty level. The number 2 school was listed as one of the top minority schools on Long Island. These are good things. We need to condemn the methods, but lets be educated about the verbage in the contract. For example a starting teacher BA1 we are #36 of 48 on Long Island. On a masters step 1(masters no extra credit, we are 34 on Long Island. We need to get all the garbage out of the way. This board is not the board that spent the money 16.2 million to be exact. Go to Lawrence.org and read the audit on website. Also go to the new york state department of Education and read the non public school manual. Everyone in this community should know what they are entitled to. As far as the contracts, I heard about it at the grocery store, and I as a member of this community am outraged, but I understand they are not getting a raise for two years. The step raise(credits over) (state law), is going down. The only thing that changed was a cap on classroom children, since this year there were 24 children in a classroom. Please go to http://www.lischooltax.com/Liferpg10.html to see other schools salaries.
I think it would be nice for all those who have so much to say, here and in the editorials show up and give your opinion in a public forum. Each month my wife goes to these meetings and relays to me the poor turnout. You have so much to say online, have the chutzpah to come to the board meeting and say it in a public forum. Then you have all the right in the world to put the board down.
The teachers you put down, are also the same teachers that are in the private schools. Let us reflect on those facts. Folks we need to stop blaming the board for things that happened ten years ago. Talk about sneaky. Everyone knows the school they are selling is going to Halb, and Halb is trading properties with the builder. Let us not get started.
If the teachers here also teach in the private schools, let them get compensated for that by the private schools, why does that have any bearing on the public school contract?
to all of you trying to change the subject:
This is sneaky becasue the current board is rejecting the mandate of the voters. Period. To bring up other issues like blaming the board for what happened 10 years ago is just not the point. What we are validly blaming the board for is being sneaky regarding the teachers contrcats. The issue with halb and the building? Irrelevant (and buls***).
But if you want to talk about relevance, how about this one;
Frank Parisi, who is president of the school board, has every reason to push for this eleventh hour contract. And that reason shows how unethical this whole thing is. His daughter is a full time teacher for the district. And therein, my friends, lies the rub.
The teachers who are in the private schools are special education teachers which the district provides on site, even though state law does not mandate it. Also, when people complain the board is not spending our money responsibly, then, we have to bring up the fact that this board has not had a chance to spend anything we have been on austerity since most have been on it. As far as Halb moving, it is not a lie. Frank Parise is not the reason they are negotiating, insiders claim the contract has poor raises, and is not the best. Let us see what it sais before everyone screams blood. I don't think they are settling because of Parise's daughter, considering he was the swing vote on the school consolidation which would have closed the high school, and he said he would have voted no. Let us not accuse a man of something that is definitely not true. No comment on the elementry school scores going up I notice.
to all of you trying to change the subject:
This is sneaky becasue the current board is rejecting the mandate of the voters.
What? Okay, I being a private school parent like the fact my son's services are provided in his school by a public school teacher. Let us fight and pick until we all have to get our services at the public school, which is what the law allows. Mandate of the voters? People just want to know where the money is going. Come to the meeting and see.
I have a comment on class size. Class size at the public school is now 24-26, too big. Even if they lower class size, our enrollment will decline. Although, I have seen a lot of non classified children of religous nature being enrolled in the public school (non classified) so who knows?
Oh please. When you talk about the state mandated level for private school services, you seem to forget that that knife cuts both ways. If you would like to see the public schools return to the state mandated levels when the private school services do, the budget would be more than HALVED.
"No comment on the elementry school scores going up I notice."
I will consider the results good when they are more even. No matter how good the elementary may be scoring, if the high school scores are as dismal as they were lastyear, we are far from successful with our students. Who are we kidding?
"People just want to know where the money is going. Come to the meeting and see."
Coming to the meeting is useless. By then the contract is as good as done. We want to know where the money is going BEFOREHAND. To tell us that coming to the meeting when it is a fait accompli is a stupid suggestion. This was sprung on the taxpaqyers and I DON'T LIKE IT one little bit.
If the contract is such a fair contract, with the teachers not getting such a great deal, then why the rush to pass it before the new board comes in?
I'm pretty firmly on the other side, but I agree that the comment about his daughter was out of line. No need to accuse the guy of corruption unless there's actually evidence (which there isn't).
Oh please. When you talk about the state mandated level for private school services, you seem to forget that ,,,
I think you have it a little off. I suggest you volunteer and be a CSE parent, which they are desperate for. Public school children do not get more. Yes the numbers are up, but those public school numbers are from all students attending public schools. I think the state should do an audit on special services. You will be shocked. Most public school children are not evaluated by the school, we go privately, and even when we go privately, and find the child needs a 504 we get the same thing you do, sorry does not qualify, does not impact the child's education. I have a friend whose son is in 3rd grade cannot tie or zip, and barely writes, was privately evaluated and was refused services, Another child of a friend of mine is so allergic to all foods that just touching him can possibly kill him, yet when the mother went to his meeting, he got decalssification speech, and was not classified, so the teacher will be alone with this child for two hours with out any help. Why, because he knew his alphabet.....His illness to not impact his education.....I encourage anyone who is unhappy with the special services to urge the state to audit, this way you can see the truth, otherwise, please call pupil personell and volunteer, this way you will see first hand.
'suddenly issuing a last-minute order slashing the level of permissible arsenic in water from 50 ppm (parts per miillion), the allowed standard since the early 1940s) to 10 ppm.'
The arsenic standard actually had been in the works for over a decade, and was based on science. The 10ppm standard had already been accepted by the World Health Organization and the European Union. The Bush administration eventually had to accept that it was correct, and they did. It is not a good example of last minute regulatory abuse.
If you can read this in English you should thank the
soldiers that defended you and the teachers that taught you.
Somewhat anon:
To say that the comment about Parisi is unfair shows that you don't have a clear understanding of what qualifies as a "conflict of interest". Are you actually saying that rushing a contract through without the mandate of the taxpaying voters when your immediate family member stands to benefit is NOT a conflict of interest?
Whether you feel the man is corrupt or not, it is not disputable that there is a conflict of interest here.
Lets all be realistic and not knee-jerk that a simple statement of fact is the same as an accusation.
ANYONE THAT BELIEVES A TEACHERS JOB IS SO EASY SHOULD READ THIS! After being interviewed by the school administration, the eager teaching prospect said: "I have always wanted to be a teacher, but now, I'm not so sure. Let me see if I've got this right. You want me to go into that room with all those kids, and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning. And I'm supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, modify their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even censor their T-shirt messages and dress habits.
You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their self esteem. You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship, fair play, how to register to vote, how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job. I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment, recognize signs of antisocial behavior, offer advice, write letters of recommendation for student employment and scholarships, encourage respect for the cultural diversity of others, and oh, make sure that I give the girls in my class fifty percent of my attention. My contract requires me to work on my own time after school, evenings and weekends grading papers. Also, at my own expense, I must spend time and money working toward advanced certification and a Masters and/or Doctorate degree. I am also expected to furnish most of the needed supplies. And on my own time you want me to attend committee and faculty meetings, PTA meetings, and participate in staff development training. I am to be a paragon of virtue, larger than life, such that my very presence will awe my students into being obedient and respectful of authority. This is to be done in an overcrowded classroom with no physical (loving or disciplinary) contact. And I am to pledge allegiance to family values and this current administration. You want me to incorporate technology into the learning experience, monitor web sites (if I am fortunate enough to have computers in my classroom), and relate personally with each student. That includes deciding who might be potentially dangerous and/or liable to commit a crime in school. I am to make sure all students pass the mandatory state exams, even those who don't come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments.
Plus, I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps get an equal education regardless of the extent of their mental or physical handicap. And I am to communicate regularly with the parents by letter, telephone, newsletter and report card. All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a few books, a bulletin board, a big smile AND on a starting salary that other degreed professionals laugh at!
I can do this, why, because I AM a teacher
Teachers contracts need not be approved by the voters, although perhaps the parents of some of these teachers should. ELA scores are published in the paper for Public schools are in the paper, but anyone can call the state to get private school ELA scores. I suggest you call the state and check on your childs schools ELA scores, I think you will be as shocked as I was at how many children in the private schools are failing.
Whether the private schools are failing tests are irrelevant to anyone but tuition paying parents or prospective students. Taxpayers have the same right to question public school scores as they are the tuition payers for every public school child. To compare the scores of the two is just silly. They are apples and oranges. Besides, we pay less than 10k a year for my daughters private school. Compare that to the 25k per student, and I'd like to be seeing significantly better result than we are seeing.
We as a community as whole, need to see this as whole, is this about the teachers or about having control of control... If this contract would go through July 6, it would be okay. Since nobody has read the contract how can you condemn it? As far as closing buildings, there are still enough children in the area not to close them. Let us not be sore losers.
Besides, we pay less than 10k a year for my daughters private school. Compare that to the 25k per student.
I agree, but since ALL members of the board claim this is not a "true" figure how do we know what we spend?
"What many people from the so-called "public school community" may not realize is that the new bloated contract...caps class size (which would effectively prevent the district from closing any of its underutilized buildings...)
From the sound of it, you advocate increasing class sizes in order to cut as many services as possible, which would include staff and the expense of operating buildings. Do you really think that 30+ students in a class is educationally sound, especially since you seem so concerned about low district test scores? Caps on class size is a win - win - win. Students win, because they receive more individual attention. Teachers win, because it is easier to give every student the attention they deserve. Parents win because it guarantees that their children will not be in an overcrowded educational environment. The only people who lose are those that only care about lowering district expenses at all costs, regardless of its impact on the system.
10k? Where does your kid go I pay 17k and would love to know why are the scores low in the private school? The elementry schools are going up, and I commend, as a teacher myself, you always start at the bottom, and work your way up.
"Since nobody has read the contract how can you condemn it?"
Evidentally, Orthomom has read it. She seems to have first hand knowledge of the contract, even before it has been voted upon. How is this possible?
Why is it antisemetic when people pass a teachers contract, but not when a board is mostly represented by private school parents. My great granfather and 40 members of my family were killed by the Nazi's and I can assure you none were asked if they went to public or private.
"Let us not be sore losers"
I don't see any sore losers but the outgoing board and their eleventh-hour contract negotiation. This is vaguely reminiscent of the Clinton administration taking all the W's out of the white house keyboards before taking office. Sore losers, all right.
"Since no one has read the contract, how can you condemn it?
That's the point. Nobody has read the contract. If you think its fair, why not put it in front of the incoming school board? The outgoing board is rushing to sign it for a reason. And I think it stinks.
"I agree but since ALL board members agree this is not a "true" figure how do we know what we spend?"
We KNOW its somewhere between 20- 26k per student. That's a hell of a lot more than area private schools manage on, and certainly too much for uneven scores as we are seeing.
How do WE know it is between 20-26 The state audit showed 16.2 million was accounted for, we ALL thought it was stolen. Perhaps if we ALL ask for a true accounting we would know, until then let us move past this, as far as the private schools operating on less, they do not buy there own books, they do not pay for busing, and all special education teachers are paid for by the district, computers,software-district. I am not saying we shouldn't it is mandated, Like the woman wrote above go to NYS and read the non public school manual, and see. (I send both my kids to Private School)
That's a hell of a lot more than area private schools manage on, and certainly too much for uneven scores as we are seeing.
They manage on less, and yet there scores are lower, which is up to the private school parent to question, which you should. Call the state. In all truth, don't worry because most of the english speaking population will be moving, leaving you with a school district of children who are ESL kids, and teachers who don't care. Then when the scores are crappy, you can say who cares. Although, you still will pay 10k a year for tuition, your taxes will still go up, and the district will be mandated to provide the same services you are getting now, who will you blame then??
How do WE know it is between 20-26
We know because the line item budget shows that the expenses for private school busing and other private school services were separated out, the link is no longer on the front page of the Lawrence website, but its just a matter of math.
The district's administrators (who like to keep us in the dark) are always quick to point out that the more accurate number (which is not at all skewed by the large private school population and doesn't include any special ed. expenditures) is the district's "Instructional Expenditures Per Pupil" figure of $14k for the '03 - '04 school year, which is the last reported number (see http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/repcrd2005/supplement/280215030000.pdf)
Those who attend the school board meetings may even recall the meeting a month ago when the superintendent and his assistant brushed off a question about the rididculous $24k per student expenditure by citing this $14k figure as more accurate.
But what the administration fails to inform us (and doesn't want us to know) is that the $14k figure is almost double the state average "Instructional Expenditures Per Pupil" for similar districts ($8k) and is double the state average for all districts ($7k)
Wow. Lots of comments.
A few points before I put my kids to sleep (I will have more later):
1.Regarding the discussion over private school scores vs. public school scores: Private school scores are not at issue here. The only people private schools have to answer to is their parent body, and the parent body in turn chooses to attend or not attend said school. The public school system offers no such choice, We pay full taxes, and thus are partial stakeholders. We are entitled to question the test scores district children receive as much as we are entitled to question our children's private school's administration when their scores are not up to par. However, the private school scores are not relevant to the discussion at hand, as public school parents have no stake whatsoever in private schools.
2.Anonymous said...
I think it would be nice for all those who have so much to say, here and in the editorials show up and give your opinion in a public forum. Each month my wife goes to these meetings and relays to me the poor turnout. You have so much to say online, have the chutzpah to come to the board meeting and say it in a public forum. Then you have all the right in the world to put the board down.
No. I have every right to put the board down, whether I attend meetings or not. This IS a public forum, and editorials are as well, and I have my freedom of expression to rely upon. Op-ed writers who criticize government actions do not have a requirement to attend all sessions of Congress before they are entitled to be critical.
Sorry, but that argument is plain wrong.
3.Evidentally, Orthomom has read it. She seems to have first hand knowledge of the contract, even before it has been voted upon. How is this possible?
I make it clear I haven't, as I am relying solely on a tip from a source close to the negotiations that there even IS a contract. Remember, NO ONE has been privy to these negotiations, and the school board has put nothing about the voting in a new teacher's contract on the budget.
I CAN guarantee you, however, that is there WERE a publicized budget instead of one that was being sneakily pushed through at the last minute in opposition to the will of the voters, I would have read it.
4. 10k? Where does your kid go I pay 17k and would love to know why are the scores low in the private school?
I pay in the vicinity of 10k as well for all my children.
5. From the sound of it, you advocate increasing class sizes in order to cut as many services as possible, which would include staff and the expense of operating buildings.
From the sound of it, you are chopping up my comment in a way that it means something entirely different than it does whole. Stop putting words in my mouth. Yes, class sizes SHOULD be kept low. However, they should be kept at a realistic size, commensurate with districts all over the state. At last count, the high school class sizes were the smallest in the county.
I agree that the elementary needs to keep class sizes down, but why are the high school classes so small? Sometimes in order to be fiscally responsible, a school board needs to cut in one area to cover another. A student:teacher ratio of 10:1 in the high school with the dismal test scores we've been seeing show that class size is not simply about a small ratio, but about other issues. Performance incentives, for example - a clause completely absent from the contract.
Much more for later.
And one more point:
I absolutely agree with commenters above that Frank Parise, the president of the school board and one of the seven voting members of the board having a daughter who is directly benefiting from the eleventh-hour contract negotiations is a conflict of interest.
Thanks for the tip, anon.
It most certainly does NOT pass the smell test, in my opinion. Frankly, he should be recusing himself from this vote - especially with tensions in this district as heightened as they presently are.
This isn't a matter of accusations of corruption against Parise - this is a matter a public figure being presented with a clear conflict of interest, and being required to recognize that.
Orthomom, Yes I agree you do have a right to speak about your feelings without going to a board meeting, but as a public school parent whose child is in high school where the average class is 25, I am unsure where you get your stats from. I also agree it is up to the private school parents to complain about the scores, but when public school teachers are doing the resource room, and other services, and my tax dollars are going towards there education as well, do you think it is not fair to question scores where all speak english, and class sizes are less. I also agree Fank should astain, but he very well might, we don't know that. As far as the budget, does this figure include the ESL classes we must provide, these children are not special education children, and they get special education. Just curious....
but as a public school parent whose child is in high school where the average class is 25, I am unsure where you get your stats from
I get my stats from the anuual NY State report card, which has very strict reporting standards. The post where I outline the findings is here.
I also agree Fank should astain, but he very well might, we don't know that.
Agreed, and I didn't say he wouldn't. Hopefully he will have the sense to do so. That said, we don't know whether he plans to abstain because we haven't even been informed that the contract is on the agenda. (Though since posting this, I have received a few e-mails confirming the board's intent to push this contract through on Tuesday night). But this has been a stealth contract negotiation, and they clearly tried very hard (unsuccessfully) to get it under the radar.
I don't think they tried to push it under the radar, I heard about this four days ago. The teachers really did not get a "sweet heart" deal, I read the site somone posted about teachers salaries on long island, and are benefits are not as great as all prints, and are salaries are not the highest, in some cases we are 34. When we are done fighting about the teachers, and the budget, when do we discuss the buildings that are falling down? If the referendum is not past, for the sale money going to the building repairs, the state is going to step in. I welcome them, after all, My feeling is they will reign in on site services to all(catholic,private,yeshievas)they will make us count books given out. And make sure special services given out are appropriate. I guarantee, if this happens, There will be shock for all. I apreciate your answers to the comments, and realize these are all are opinions, and we still have to find a way to get along.
I don't think they tried to push it under the radar, I heard about this four days ago.
I would beg to differ. The renewal of the teacher's contract has been an acrimonious debate for many months, with pot-stirring such as picketing outside selected board members offices with inflammatory signs, as well as protests outside yeshivas. With a mood as rancorous as the one that has pervaded the district in recent monthys, anything short of an announcement that the contract has been negotiated is an attempt to "get it under the radar", in my opinion.
I apreciate your answers to the comments, and realize these are all are opinions, and we still have to find a way to get along.
I couldn't agree more. I would love to find a way for everyone to give a little and come to some sort of compromise that everyone can agree on.
This isnt even about whether the contract is fair, whether the schools have good class sizes, etc.
This is about the board doing something sneaky when they put this contract through at the last minute when the voters have spoken.
They are doing something sneaky, and Frank Parise is making a big mistake in being invovled in somehting so sneaky with his conflict of interest.
"Everyone knows the school they are selling is going to Halb, and Halb is trading properties with the builder."
Where did this come from?? Why is this one being glossed over??
I was wondering when this would be looked at. Yes this is the "buzz" We are getting a great price from the builder who inturn will sell the property to Halb in exchange for beach front property rumor has it.
"Yes, class sizes SHOULD be kept low. However, they should be kept at a realistic size, commensurate with districts all over the state."
Well, maybe you should wait to see what the the class size provision says before lambasting it. While we're at it, how can you call it a "sweetheart deal" if you haven't read it? Is that because your source read the entire thing to you? If so, that's a lot more than a "tip", as you called it. For a simple tip, you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If the deal was read to you, but you didn't read it yourself, I would think that your claim of having not read the deal is a bit disengenuous.
With all the screaming about fiscal responsibility and high taxes the sale of the #1 school had better go to the highest bidder or else the new board's credibility will be shot immediately.
If the deal was read to you, but you didn't read it yourself, I would think that your claim of having not read the deal is a bit disengenuous.
Well, that's not how it happened. I didn't read it, nor has it been read to me. So, no. I'm not being in the least disingenuous. Everything I know about the contract is right here in the post, from a tip I received by e-mail. And you want to prove to me that it isn't a sweetheart deal? Then tell me where I CAN read it! What are the negotiating parties so scared of that they need to do this under the veil of secrecy?
Anonymous said...
With all the screaming about fiscal responsibility and high taxes the sale of the #1 school had better go to the highest bidder or else the new board's credibility will be shot immediately.
The bid has already been accepted, by the outgoing board, and the bid was by far the highest. You might need to catch up a little on the district news.
O.K., so why are you bemoaning the class size provision if you don't know exactly what it is? Shouldn't you be reserving judgement before complaining about how a class size provision will make it more difficult to eventually close another school?
Goy guy - Not to put to fine a point on it, but I think that far more public school students (proportionally even) become a drain on society (particularly WRT jail and rehab) than private school students do, especially from the private schools around here.
I don't have a problem with teachers serving on their local school boards - people know the person is a teacher when they elect them (although I do have tremendous issues with public employee unions generally, but we'll leave that for another day). I also don't think having a daughter who is a teacher makes recusal necessary, the voters knew about that when they elected him.
On class size - I somehow managed to get through my entire K-12 education with class iszes that were 25+ (and around 28 for all of high school) without suffering much damage. This should be a policy call for the board and not something fixed in the teacher's employment contract - unless its really about providing more teaching jobs and not providing for a better education. Why should the teacher's contract contain provisions that tie the board's hands on educational policy. Teachers are employees, not the ones making the decisions as to what type of class size is best (which is not to say that teachers are not important in children's education, just that this is not their decision and should not be in their contract).
Anonymous said...
O.K., so why are you bemoaning the class size provision if you don't know exactly what it is? Shouldn't you be reserving judgement before complaining about how a class size provision will make it more difficult to eventually close another school?
10:05 PM
No. There were no class size provision in the last contract. There are now. That will make it harder to close schools. It's simple.
and that would be what this is all about ... let's just do whatever we can to close as many of the buildings as possible!
No..but let's not keep exorbitant maintenance costs for running half-empty school buildings in a district with an ever-shrinking public school population. Let's be realistic here and face facts. There are school buildings in this district that are running at woefully below capacity. Superintendent Fitzsimons himself has been broaching the topic of a need for a consolidation plan.
OM,
There are not building that are half full. Where do people get this information. Make an appointment and tour the buildings yourself. Why is everyone in such a rush to close schools? Fitzsimmons plan is not to close a school, it is to save the district money on the huge amount of repairs that are needed, remember the proposition that was voted down. The community is doing exactly what the board wants, when it gets voted down again they can go to the state, and the state who is watching, call yourself, will step right in.
Also,
The population has not shrunk that much. The private school children enrollment has become greater each day. If this continues, there will be more students, and less schools to close. We are still here, some of us are not moving.
Anonymous said...
OM,
There are not building that are half full. Where do people get this information. Make an appointment and tour the buildings yourself.
It is. I have toured it. It's called the #5 school.
Fitzsimmons plan is not to close a school, it is to save the district money on the huge amount of repairs that are needed,
Yes. by closing a school. That's what the consolidation plan entailed, whether it was voted down or not.
Anonymous said...
Also,
The population has not shrunk that much. The private school children enrollment has become greater each day. If this continues, there will be more students, and less schools to close. We are still here, some of us are not moving.
I'm not sure how you can say that. You should look at the numbers. You would see that the population of public school children has shrunk to less than half of what it was 20 years ago. If that's "not shrinking that much", I don't know what is.
closing a school is necessary down the road. population is shrinking, and it is the sensible thing to do. I simply cannot fathom how you interpret a class size provision as nothing more than a teacher union ploy to save jobs, especially since you have no idea what your talking about because you haven't seen the actual proposal, so you don't actually know if the class size provision is rational or not!
It is. I have toured it. It's called the #5 school.
Please go to #6 and #2, perhaps some redistricting would help.
You would see that the population of public school children has shrunk to less than half of what it was 20 years ago. If that's "not shrinking that much", I don't know what is.
I refer to you a lot of the LI schools that have gone down in 20 years. I know everyone is very excited to close another building, but let us wait to see what happens. When all the people who speak english move out, and you are left with poor scores, and still the same amount of spending, who do we blame then?????
I refer to you a lot of the LI schools that have gone down in 20 years.
What does one have to do with the other?? We are talking about Lawrence here. Why the obfuscation? If the districts public school population goes down 50%, we need 50% less space. It's simple math.
I know everyone is very excited to close another building, but let us wait to see what happens. When all the people who speak english move out, and you are left with poor scores, and still the same amount of spending, who do we blame then?????
Again, what does your latent racism have to do with closing school buildings?
I simply cannot fathom how you interpret a class size provision as nothing more than a teacher union ploy to save jobs,
I'm not sure where you saw me say that. I said that the class size provision, according to my source, is going to effectively prevent the closing of underutilized school buildings. That will prevent the infusion of funds into the district.
What we should be fighting is why westchester has a higher income per family and they get more state aid. The shrinking of the class size will not prevent closing. In fact it will probably help. Once classes start to hit 15 per child they will close another school. We need to ask the state for more money.
What we should be fighting is why westchester has a higher income per family and they get more state aid. The shrinking of the class size will not prevent closing. In fact it will probably help. Once classes start to hit 15 per child they will close another school. We need to ask the state for more money.
Goy guy:
You have a fair point. I will accept your contention that I overstated the test scores issue in private schools and their relevance to society overall, but I do maintain that it certainly is not relevant to this discussion.
I think this district needs help. Not in the way you think. Perhaps a mediator coming in would help. What no on sees is the set up going on. Last year the district voted down a budget lower than austerity. This year a teachers contract will fail, does anyone see the writing on the wall. They are setting us all up to go to the state....
Anonymous said...
I think this district needs help. Not in the way you think. Perhaps a mediator coming in would help. What no on sees is the set up going on. Last year the district voted down a budget lower than austerity. This year a teachers contract will fail, does anyone see the writing on the wall. They are setting us all up to go to the state....
This is not quite a fair asessment. The austerity budget that was "higher" than the proposed budget was not actually so. It may have been presented as such, but it also would have freed up funds that the district evidently did not trust the board to spend wisely.
The teachers contract will fail? How so? I am under the impression that the board will sign it on Tuesday night, and that will be that.
In terms of a state takeover, that is more in line with what the teachers would want than what anyone else in the district would want. The teachers' lobby is the most powerful in the state, and they would probably get a much more sympathetic audience from the State than they are getting down here in district 15.
This is amazing to me. Contract negotiations - including teacher contract negotiations - are never done in a public forum. We elect public officials to do the negotiating for us, behind closed doors. Board members have been meeting in executive session all year to discuss contract negotiations, no one called foul or demanded "details" because you cannot negotiate in public session!
Our public officials have the mandate to do their job - here, to continue negotiating and to settle the district's obligation to its employees - up until the end of their term. Whoever took it upon him or her self to "tip" OM on the status of those negotiations has breached a fiduciary duty owed to all taxpayers to conduct negotiations in good faith and keep it between the parties. The district attorney should investigate.
One would think that the "new" board (which is actually just two new members and FIVE current members) would be happy to move forward when they take office with a fresh slate - a new teachers union rep is also starting the first week of July and wouldnt it be nice if they could all start out working together - and continue blaming "bloat" in the budget on the teachers and boards from years past as is the tradition in this District.
But the big questions are why OM bashes five remaining board members for doing their job and negotiating a teachers contract as they are supposed to do, and how she can criticize the contract as being good for public schools as if a guarantee of no more than 24 students (ack! 24!) somehow is skin off anyone's teeth.
The giant question is how come she has so much detailed information about something that is not even supposed to be discussed in public until Tuesday? Somebody's made a grave breach here.
The giant question is how come she has so much detailed information about something that is not even supposed to be discussed in public until Tuesday? Somebody's made a grave breach here.
Who are you kidding with your melodrama? This was the talk of the town on Central Avenue yesterday - and the information is clearly coming from the teachers. Maybe they should have ratcheted down their excitement level a bit and kept quiet. Then this would have went off quietly.
But the big questions are why OM bashes five remaining board members for doing their job and negotiating a teachers contract as they are supposed to do, and how she can criticize the contract as being good for public schools as if a guarantee of no more than 24 students (ack! 24!) somehow is skin off anyone's teeth.
I think they are making a grave error by pushing through a hotly contested contract issue in the very last days of their tenure. The public has spoken regarding how they want their money spent. This is against what they have elected the new officials to do. You want to say it is the outgoing board's right? Fine! But you are in the vast minority of anyone here in my comment section and anyone that I encountered yesterday who was talking about this issue - and that goes for both public and private parents.
Regarding the class size number of 24 - thanks for the tidbit. (Gasp! You released a detail from the contract! Is that a breach?). That number seems fair.
"Regarding the class size number of 24 - thanks for the tidbit. (Gasp! You released a detail from the contract! Is that a breach?). That number seems fair."
OM - why should a class size provision, no matter the number, be in a teacher's employment contract? If the justification is that smaller classes are more conducive to learning, then it is an educational policy matter, and a decision that is rightfully the board's to make - it does not affect the teachers' interests. Unless of course the provision does work in the teacher's interests by creating more teaching jobs.
OM - why should a class size provision, no matter the number, be in a teacher's employment contract? If the justification is that smaller classes are more conducive to learning, then it is an educational policy matter, and a decision that is rightfully the board's to make - it does not affect the teachers' interests. Unless of course the provision does work in the teacher's interests by creating more teaching jobs.
Well, even though it hasn't been in teacher's contracts for this district in the past, it is a clause in some teacher's contracts in other districts. I have heard it said that it's really a ploy to create or maintain jobs - but I actually don't think that is the main point, and even I am not cynical enought to believe that teachers really think that way. If class size becomes unmanageably large, it can make a teacher's job untenable or impossible. So it is a relevant issue to teachers themselves, as it affects whether they are able to do their job properly. Work conditions are certainly relevant to employees, and class size is a work condition.
OM,
Although I have not agreed with most that you wrote, thank you for the above comment. I am a teacher on mom leave. It is imperative class sizes stay reasonable. 24 is too much. Think this way, in a typical third grade class you had 24 students 2 were hyperactive, 6 ESL no english spoken, 4 who just were declassified esl, and 2 emotional needy kids from divorce. It is impossible for a teacher to teach that way with out an aid which is too expensive. The public schools do not evaluate children, as readily. Parents are encouraged to go privately, and when they force the issue a child is screened . Most people are not privy to the laws, which perhaps you can help to educate. I agree I don't think it is a "ploy" by the teachers to ask for smaller class sizes, I just think this year was a shock to many at #6 and #2 , and on a whole, most just want to do there jobs. Thank you for your objectivitey on this one.
if a guarantee of no more than 24 students (ack! 24!)
The reason why she knows this is most public school parents have complained all year that the class sizes were too big.
Om,
I feel like we are being set up. All of us. There are a certain few, who are waiting for this contract to not go through tommorow night, which could happen if enough people show up and contest. Then the district has a right to go to the state and ask them to step in due to discrimination. I know that sounds crazy, but go to the state site and read. Why do you think we all know about the contract? There never should have been any leaks. Once the state steps in, the board new and old is off the hook, and when they show, there is no bloating, every election will be scrutinized. The sale of the building, will be monitored, and when the building fund gets voted down, you will have walked right into the trap of a select few waiting patiently to make there move.
In terms of a state takeover, that is more in line with what the teachers would want than what anyone else in the district would want.
Not true, it has been a buzz in the air for some time that public school parents hang in, once the knew board gets in and fails to get the building money, pushing for school closings, the state has promised to step in and make things right. Teachers have nothing to do with it.... Just like it has been said Halb is getting school 1. That rumor I believe. Really I do not know what is so bad about that one.
Just like it has been said Halb is getting school 1. That rumor I believe. Really I do not know what is so bad about that one.
I agree with you on that. If they get the same 27 million on the building and Halb takes it, who cares? It's a great deal, and I would love to have a school in the same place. Especially with the sewage problems.
The public has spoken regarding how they want their money spent. This is against what they have elected the new officials to do.
What? The public does not want the teachers to have a contract, or they want to wait till the new board members get in to fail it. The teachers contract is grossly exaggerated to be "sweet" I read two raises, when in fact on so called raise is call a step increase, which is a law. When a teacher completes college credits which they pay for themselves, they increase there salary. Sorry folks, you will have to complain to the government on that one. The teachers pay 15% of there health insurance premium, 75% of the Nassau County School teachers pay 5% I could quote more, but why bother. The teachers salaries, are not the issue, we have great teachers making what they should.
contract through without the mandate of the taxpaying voters
Public school teachers are constantly being blamed for not making the grade, while those making the accusations take no responsibility for the fact that are public schools are starved for tax dollars. Poor equipment, crumbling buildings,and larger and larger class sizes have been the goal of this community? We test test test are children and what do we end up with , Children who have been taught nothing but what is on the test, a very poor way to prepare them for the complex world we live in, and our schools that do not score well, we get bashed for not preparing for these tests. With class sizes currently(not last years average) teetering at 24-26, who can put the blame on the teachers, perhaps if we all faught the state for more funds, we would accomplish more than giving ALL private schools more money. Taxpayers vote in a candidate that they feel will be best for the school district. School district 15 board of education are representatives of the CHILDREN of #15. I don't see how settling a contract is in the worst interest of those children? Taxpayers who vote for a budget vote for a PUBLIC school budget. Not passing a budget does not change anything in services for ANY child at ANY school. The state guidlines are very specific, and the allowances made to private schools are outlined by the state. SO let's just say you close a school, get rid of some teachers, I have a suprise, your taxes will still go up, and you still will get the same state alloted funds the state allows.
First, you say "I am relying solely on a tip from a source close to the negotiations that there even IS a contract."
But this morning you say that any leaks are all the fault of the teachers: "This was the talk of the town on Central Avenue yesterday - and the information is clearly coming from the teachers." Steve Clements, j'accuse!
How is this coming from the teachers, talk of Cedahurst? Funny how most public school parents did not even know about the contract, yet it is our teachers leaking it...Hmmm, That is just a wee bit fishy. Talk of Cedahurst? Yesterday being Fathers Day and 90 Degree's we were at the beach. Most of us "public" school people didn't hear about this till our neighbors told us, leaving the feeling of being a minority and a state mandated investigation a possibility that many of us would welcome.
There are a certain few, who are waiting for this contract to not go through tommorow night, which could happen if enough people show up and contest. Then the district has a right to go to the state and ask them to step in due to discrimination.
Huh? What are you smoking? What discrimination?
I read two raises, when in fact on so called raise is call a step increase, which is a law. When a teacher completes college credits which they pay for themselves, they increase there salary. Sorry folks, you will have to complain to the government on that one.
This is semantics. An increase in salary is a raise. Call it a "step," but it's a raise. And, a step increase occurs with seniority -- not just when a teacher acheives a degree.
why does orthomom tell us all about the TEACHERS and only those horrible wretched people who teach the non-orthodox children in the district? Why does she not inform you that there are other contracts in negotiations? one of which is a 'done deal'! Why does she ONLY discuss the teachers? The people that will directly affect the NON-ORTHODOX children of this district?
ORTHOMOM'S 'SOURCE' IS HER HUSBAND, IF YOU ASK ME THAT'S UNETHICAL. BUT WHAT DO WE EXPECT FROM 2 PEOPLE CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL CHILDREN'S INTEREST AT HEART WHO HAVE NEVER ONCE SHOWN THEIR FACE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL BUILDING WHILE THE 'OTHER CHILDREN' WERE IN ATTENDANCE!
AFRAID OF GETTING THE COOTIES?
OK, so the School Board now intends to sign every contract it can get it's hands on:
Teachers
Administrators/Principals
Custodians
Psychologists
Nothing devious about that, ay?
(Did I leave any out?)
"ORTHOMOM'S 'SOURCE' IS HER HUSBAND, IF YOU ASK ME THAT'S UNETHICAL. BUT WHAT DO WE EXPECT FROM 2 PEOPLE CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL CHILDREN'S INTEREST AT HEART WHO HAVE NEVER ONCE SHOWN THEIR FACE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL BUILDING WHILE THE 'OTHER CHILDREN' WERE IN ATTENDANCE!"
I'm glad someone finally said what we all know. Mrs. Mansdorf, you should be ashamed of yourself for blogging on isssues that should be confidential. There should definitely be an investigation into this.
OK, so the School Board now intends to sign every contract it can get it's hands on:
Teachers
Administrators/Principals
Custodians
Psychologists
Nothing devious about that, ay?
(Did I leave any out?)
********************************
You didn't but Mrs. Mansdork did. I too would like to know why she centers all her attention on the teachers?
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