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Monday, September 18, 2006

Charity Begins At Home?

On a thread a few posts down, an anonymous commenter left the following comment:
It seems a real shame to me that here in the 5 towns we support charities from all over the world, as is evidenced by the almost weekly visits from persosn outside the community soliciting for 1 org or an other, but yet homegrown charity has taken a back seat. Charity begins at home with the nickel and dimes of the school children, which in the case of local jewish schools is usually sent outside the community. Lest see how much we could raise in Boro Park at a fundraiser for a 5 towns jewish school, not to much.
I think the comment is very interesting, though I don't agree with all of it. I agree with the fact that a community should help their own needy before taking their resources outside the community. I especially agree that if a community's institutions are struggling to stay financially afloat, said community has no business supporting institutions in other communities before their own are provided for. But how those ideas play into the situation here in the Five Towns is an intriguing question.

There is no question that a tremendous amount of the community's resources are being tapped by institutions and charitable organizations that are not located within the Five Towns. There is also no question that other communities are suffering from levels of need that are orders of magnitude worse than we see here in this community.

A few years back, I remember a community leader wrote an article for a local paper decrying the fact that the community supports so many outside charities when there are causes in their own backyards that are left wanting. He actually proposed a community-wide moratorium on fundraising for institutions that are not local ones. If I recall correctly, this article came on the heels of a visit to the Five Towns by a prominent Chassidic Rabbi from an upstate community. The Rabbi spent the weekend in the homes of various community members, raising funds for his own community. Rumor went that when all was said and done, and the Chassidim and their leader were cozily ensconced once again in their upstate community, they had raised a cool million from the Five Towns Olam. At around the same time, a local Yeshiva was heavily fundraising for a new building. As that rumor went, the Rosh Yeshiva was told my some wealthy community members that they were simply overextended at that time and couldn't give as much as the Rosh Yeshiva was asking for.

Obviously, it makes a good deal of sense to put local charities and institutions first, before shelling out to faraway communities. But when dealing with a wealthy community such as this one, where the financial resources are vast, the situation is far far more complex. Can we rightly say that we must save our resources for new shul buildings - complete with vaulted ceilings and elaborate catering facilities, when there are shuls in other communities who need help to literally put a roof over their members' heads? Is it ethical to withhold funds from another community's Tomchei Shabbos, when their numbers of destitute are far more staggering than our own? Can we really say that we need to keep all our assets in-house when our Yeshivas have beautiful campuses and buildings (at least the ones that have buildings - but I digress), and many yeshivas in outside communities are in ramshackle buildings that are bursting at the seams with students?

Is it really morally just for a community with an extremely large number of "haves" to send the message out to those needy souls who come from communities with even larger numbers of "have-nots" that they Need Not Apply?

I mean, yes, I can't argue with the anonymous commenter quoted above that no one expects to see a fundraiser running in Brooklyn for a Five Towns charity. And I agree with the commenter as well that the Tzedakah collected from our children in Yeshiva usually goes to causes outside the community. That said - how in the world, with this community's mean standard of living, can we expect to see anything else?

42 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the poster. I think you took my comments out of context. They were in response to a thread about how little catholic school costs v. yeshiva, because the catholic school community supports the catholic schools with charity, even the nickel and dimes of the children in the schools. That poster even educated me to the fact that the catholic church deos not support the schools directly.

I am sure (but have not checked, if there is even a way bto do so), that this "charity" of the catholic school community, as well as their total giving, is dwarfed by the charity and chesed provided by our community. We should be proud of our accomplishments, BUT,

I bemoan the fact that there are many institutions in this community who build grand facilities, take in any child that wants an education (without regard to the source of payment), and then stuggle to pay their salaries and bills, all while millions are flowing out of the community to equally worthy causes.

In line with the article you read was a recent proposal for a tzdekah tax, in that a percentage of the tzadakh flowing out of the community is taxed for the benefit of our local institutions.

I hope that my remarks, in whatever conteaxt they are taken, will at least open some eyes to the fact that when considering where to disburse our tzadakeh funds, soemtimes we can think about our own first.

7:41 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


I bemoan the fact that there are many institutions in this community who build grand facilities, take in any child that wants an education (without regard to the source of payment), and then stuggle to pay their salaries and bills, all while millions are flowing out of the community to equally worthy causes.


I agree, but that is what this post is all about. How is that not in line with your original context?

8:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post. But I am a proponent of the no outside charity propsal in my shul. Maybe our communityis not as wealthy as yours, so its different. But its hard to exuse there being anyone going hungry in your own town when you give moneyto other towns.

8:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How is that not in line with your original context?


Because Orthomom seems to think that advocated no tzadakh to oustide institutions. I am only advocating that the 1st recipients should be our own. When they have enough then go to the outside. There will be plenty for everyone, but why should our institutions suffer when home grown charity can support them all. Why should 1 child be turned away beacuse the school is short on funds.

8:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yet another point by your anoynmous poster.

Using Boro Park only as an example, I find it hard to believe that the Boro Park community cannot "take care of their own" when it comes to charity. As I drive through Boro Park, I see much more oppulant homes then I ahve seen here, on much more expensive land. There are rich people there to. Let their people of means support them 1st too. Again only as a means of example.

8:39 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

There will be plenty for everyone, but why should our institutions suffer when home grown charity can support them all. Why should 1 child be turned away beacuse the school is short on funds.

I hear what you are saying. But your point can be extended to apply to our own community. Should we allow charities such as a new, elaborate school building to be built in one school, when another, much poorer school has a leaky roof and classes held in trailers? There are many causes here that are far more well-funded than others. So the point that you are making, that a community should make sure that their own are provided for in every way, can be extended to apply to inter-community causes as well. I simply don't think that it is a reasonable standard to hold, that a comunity should support no outside charities, when we are talking about a fancy building in one community vs. starving people in another. Proportion is definitely a consideration, in my opinion.

8:48 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Because Orthomom seems to think that advocated no tzadakh to oustide institutions. I am only advocating that the 1st recipients should be our own. When they have enough then go to the outside.


My point is that whast is "enough"for a community such as ours might be a ridiculously wasteful standard for a community whose charities are struggling to feed starving people. So it's all so subjective.

8:50 AM  
Anonymous VFB said...

Orthomom:

You miss the explanation of this phenomenon by defining community exclusively in geographic terms, rather than in religious terms. The reason that Boro Park organizations raise funds in the Five Towns but Five Towns organizations will not attempt to fundraise in Boro Park is because they understand the Yeshivish and Chassidic community will not contribute to Modern Orthodox organizations. (Yes I know that the Five Towns is not exclusively Modern Orthodox, but its not religiously like Boro Park either.) The reverse is not true, as many Modern Orthodox Jews give substantial amounts to Yeshivish and Chasidic organizations. The reason for this has nothing to do with which community has nicer schools or shuls. The Yeshivish and Chassidic communities will not contribute to Modern Orthodox institutions, because they believe that Modern Orthodoxy is not “authentic” Judaism.

9:22 AM  
Blogger DAG said...

Trust me, there are 5 Towns Frum organizations that are REALLY hurting....employess, not being paid, massive debt etc.

9:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"ridiculously wasteful standard "

Maybe a topic for another day, conspicious consumption in the 5 towns.

10:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Yeshivish and Chassidic communities will not contribute to Modern Orthodox institutions, because they believe that Modern Orthodoxy is not “authentic” Judaism.


But our money is frum enough for them??

10:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"conspicious consumption"

both for shul, schools and private indviduals.

10:07 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"But our money is frum enough for them??"

old story.

10:10 AM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

I will preface this by saying I don't live in the 5Towns. I live in a community that does not have opulent shuls and has barely adequate or just adequate school facilities. We don't have too many wealthy people either. And, meanwhile we have massive tuitions that are rising by massive amounts every year.

And, yet, every Sunday (Mon, Tues, Wed. . . ), money leaves the community with meshulachim, sometimes for great causes like food, other times to buy dirot to uphold a ridiculous dowry system at the expense of underfunded things here. And, there are numerous parlor meetings for outside causes, etc.

Nobody from outside the

And, yet, there is not a single notice "from the pulpit" (at least that I know about) explaining our priorities in tzedakah, letting us know what we should prioritize first locally and what we should prioritize in Israel and other communities.

I agree with you Orthomom that there are people who are much worse off in other communities. And, I would agree that building grandiose shuls, mikvahs, etc, should probably take a backseat to certain needs.

But, I don't think most communities can afford to neglect their own without destroying necessary institutions.

10:36 AM  
Anonymous observer said...

While I agree that Charity begins at home, I will give my tzedakah to whatever organizations I choose. Who would enforce a tzedakah "tax"? Would there be an opt-out available? If it taken without my knowledge, wouldn't that constitute a fraud?

When it comes to people going door to door, I no longer give to people collecting for organizations who do not have a teudah from the Vaad of the Five Towns (I will still give to poor individuals looking for a handout for themselves, but not people claiming to be collecting for organizations). It is amazing how many people without a teudah claim that they got to the Vaad just as it was closing but plan on getting a teudah the next day. As far as the teudah goes, I get the sense it doesn't mean much anyway, but at least there is some sort of process. Anyone know how the Vaad screens and decides who gets their teudah? I guess that is enough venting for now.

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are really two issues: prioritiy between one's community and another, and priorities within one's own community. While the first issue is often complicated, the second is often much less so because there is no question of a trade off between proximity and need. I mean, how important is it for, say, a congregation to have a grand structure in the face of the needs of families that simply can't make tuition payments for four kids or schools that have to house classrooms in trailers? To me, a contribution to a shul building fund, while technically tzedaka, is only slightly more praiseworthy then spending money on a new kitchen or deck as the decision to build a shul is often the result of want rather than of need (e.g., shuls being built by breakaway minyanim or by congregations with adquate space seeking to build an "edifice"). While sucha desire is legitimate, it would be a shame if it came at the expense of charities with actual needs.

10:57 AM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

Anon 10:57AM is absolutely correct that we don't prioritize well within our own communities. I was just asked to donate generously to a brand new edifice. Needless to say, in the face of other pressing needs, the edifice won't get my money.


While I agree that Charity begins at home, I will give my tzedakah to whatever organizations I choose. Who would enforce a tzedakah "tax"? Would there be an opt-out available? If it taken without my knowledge, wouldn't that constitute a fraud?

Observer-I guess your community doesn't have "tzedakah scrip" (neither does mine, but I wish they did).

Basically tzedakah scrip is a program where the Vaad, or whoever issues teudot, allows community members to buy denominations of donations. Instead of community members providing meshulachim with cash or checks (checks being a sore point for the unfortunate ones who have been defrauded by unscrupulous frauds), a community member can provide meshulachim with denominations of scrip, which then must be "redeemed" for actual cash from the Vaad.

The scrip is "taxed" when redeemed, e.g. a $25 "bill" can be redeemed for $20 cash.

Those who purchase scrip are aware that it is "taxed." Those who do not want taxed can just write a personal check or give cash.

The "tax" then goes to a tomchei fund or bikur cholim or other local community functions.

11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Original Poster Again:

The point that I see evolving

(a) When building or renovating a building, almsot everyone is against grand structures as momentos of ones charitable giving. Modest structures that can sufficiently accomodate the community they intend to serve are appropirate.

(b) No one disagrees with the notion that local institutions here in the 5 tonws deserve more support from the local community. Maybe if they did a better job of controlling their output of funds (espically on flashy facilities) maybe the community would show more support.

(c) We can not expect our more rightwing brethern to show us in kind hakarat hatov, with support of our torah institutions, as our torah is not as holy as theirs.

(d)tzadakh tax is a non starter as it is not possible to police or enforce someone from giving where they want

(e) Local Religious leaders could be doing a bettter job selling our local institutions

1:01 PM  
Anonymous observer said...

Sephardilady,

Thanks for educating me as to how the tzedakah scrip program (tax) would work. I appreciate it. Sounds interesting and like a good idea in theory. If it could work, I would support the idea (since it is voluntary). I wonder though, how it work in a community of our size. In particular, which rabaim would decide how the "tax" should be allocated? What organizations would those rabaim actually agree upon? Food for thought. Thanks again.

1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us not forget, though: In the ad that was passed out several months ago in the Five Towns we were informed of a Rabbinic psak that the "Va'ad HaRabbonim", an Israeli organization, is the FIRST place our tzedoka money should go. It was even a local Five Towns rabbi who was quoted as having tcheppered this psak out of the godol in question.

Now how can we possibly give to local charities when our tzedoka money must be earmarked for this foreign organization with the huge advertising budget?

1:45 PM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1:59 PM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

Let us not forget, though: In the ad that was passed out several months ago in the Five Towns we were informed of a Rabbinic psak that the "Va'ad HaRabbonim", an Israeli organization, is the FIRST place our tzedoka money should go. It was even a local Five Towns rabbi who was quoted as having tcheppered this psak out of the godol in question.

Good point. As reported here.

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I will give my tzedakah to whatever organizations I choose."

Thats fine just please choose local charaties before those outside the community.We have so many worthy organizations in our community that persorm chessed every day, and can do even more.

Charity is volantary giving and while we believe in misser (10%), each person should have the right to give to the cahrity of their choice. My problem is that every charity from all over the world has come to use the 5 towns as their check book, when we have local groups who have insufficient funds to continue their holy work. These outside charaties wholesome groups to support, but if we do not fully support our local institutions, they will close up, or worse, we will have to "bail them out" of financial trouble when it costs a lot more to do so.

9:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps the "tax" e.g. 10% off the top can be enforced when the "invitations" go out. The local Rabbanim of our shuls should speak as one on a designated shabbos as to the new "law". The bottom of the invitation should state that a percentage of the proceeds will benefit OUR community. There should be an account set up for the yeshivos and once a year the monies can be distributed according to need.

9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How much of the Five Towns charity goes to non-Jewish causes? Like the refugees in Darfur, for example. On any scale, they are probably the neediest people on the planet. If there is a moral obligation to help those who are less well off, is it limited only to other Jews? Just wondering.

10:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is an interesting thread, but an old story. Jewish money has always flowed out of the community and that's not likely to change and if it is the donor's choice then there is nothing wrong with it. However, when it comes to local yeshivas and religious schools, I think the more pertinent question is, "How much of your tuition is flowing out of the yeshiva and to some other religious organization, possibly a yeshiva in Israel?" I call this the involuntary yeshiva tax and the sad part is you are making a donation and can't even take it off on your taxes.

7:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How much of your tuition is flowing out of the yeshiva and to some other religious organization, possibly a yeshiva in Israel"

Please explain. Are u saying that schools boost tuition to pay for non-operating "charitable" donations to 3rd party institutions??

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think we should take a lesson here from our Chassidic and Syrian bretheren. While substantial sums of money are raised for causes outside their community the majority of their ma'asser money is flowing into their schools and social organizations.

This is not an all or none argument but a shifting of our priorities.

From what I've been told Baltimore has a 30% tzeddakah tax imposed on all outside charities.

10:46 AM  
Blogger Goy Guy said...

Anonymous said...

"I am sure (but have not checked, if there is even a way bto do so), that this "charity" of the catholic school community, as well as their total giving, is dwarfed by the charity and chesed provided by our community. We should be proud of our accomplishments,"

The charity given by Catholics, Jews and the American religious community in general is really quite outstanding and way above the rest of the world. The Orthodox community from all appearances gives money to charity at an amazing rate.

But we're talking schools, here.

Some background for those who don't know the deal: Forgetting the religious end, the Catholic Church is a very large worldwide organization. For purposes of administration, both religious and financial, the Church is divided into regional areas called diocese ( Nassau/Suffolk is one. Brooklyn Queens is another). These are divided into parishes. These areas have defined geographic boundaries. Most people belong to the parish in which they reside. Not always, but usually. Your choice of course. The diocese and the parishes each raise money both separately and sometimes together. Most of this money is used at the discretion of the local parish or diocese for local parish and diocesan programs and expenses, the Catholic hospital system, subsidized housing, food pantries. The list is endless. Other money is raised specifically for certain causes. The poor, overseas charities, retired clergy, education, etc.

The elementary schools in a diocese, at least around here, are mainly administered as a group by the diocese. They screen and hire the teachers and principals, enforce academic and financial standards, maintain the pension funds, health care plans and other benefits for the staffs, negotiate with the teachers, purchasing fuel oil, etc. When an individual school is starting to lose money, and the diocese has to start shelling out cash subsidies, be sure the end is near. If sufficient money is not found for that specific school through local sources it will be closed or combined with another.

However, when you see a diocese announce they are closing a school for financial reasons, those financial reasons are almost always linked to one thing. Declining enrollment at that particular school (for whatever reason) and a corresponding lack of tuition income. A school with a full enrollment rarely will not be able to keep its head above water, even with tuitions as low as they are.

One big advantage the Catholic schools would seem to have is that for the most part, especially on the elementary school level, they are sort of homogonous. While the religious level of the families sending kids there varies from none to devout, the schools, like the Church itself, are pretty much evenly religious both in religious teaching and practice. This lends itself to overseeing and manageing them as a group.

So why is YOUR tuition so high?

It would seem that the thing that yeshivas lack, that the Catholic school system has, is financial and academic oversight. Every yeshiva operates pretty much on it's own with no one watching. I would imagine that this perception of a lack of oversight leads to parents and potential donors wondering where the money goes. Who's getting paid how much? Who gets this or that contract? Certainly when there is money to be diverted there are people who will do it. Not most people, but some. Public school administrators have done it. Parish pastors have done it. But when they are caught it's generally handed over to the DA for criminal prosecution.

It's not too often that you see the head of a yeshiva being dragged out of his office in handcuffs by the police for financial mismanagement to the cheers of the community and the parents. Unfortunately most news outlets seem to like the stories with a guy in a big black hat and a beard being arrested for whatever while the locals throw bottles at the cops and light something on fire.

Would YOU drop a dime on your yeshiva's administrators to the IRS? Or the DA? While we all like to complain about the public school budget and salaries, at least we all know what they are. If the school superintendent makes 250 grand a year, it's generally right there for all to see. If the district is picking up his car payment we may not like it but it's public information. Is your tuition paying someone's car payment? Do you know? Do you care? Have you ever asked to see the big Rabbi's pay stub? Is your kid's school budget as open about finances as the public budgets theoretically are? For that matter are the academic achievements and state test results published? All the schools, even the well run ones, suffer when no one knows which are the ones are not run well, because it might be yours, so why should you give more?

At most Catholic schools, certainly a general financial accounting is available. Teacher’s salaries (which are pretty modest like in most private schools) are negotiated collectively and publicly. When a school is in financial danger certainly any interested party involved can find out the basic details of its budget if they want to help out or question the level of the problem. Sometimes decisions to close schools are reversed after increased community support or a large donation. I would think that it's this sort of open approach to school finances that encourages folks to cut a check to the old alma mater. At least you know it's really going to the mortgage, or the electric bill, or the basketball team or whatever. And be sure no Catholic school administrator or principal is making a few hundred grand a year. The principal of a school in an affluent community probably doesn't live there.

Keep in mind that the very fact that the orthodox community is seen politically as a strong voting bloc is what keeps the government from snooping around and making sure no one is stealing or squandering your tuition money. Of course that same thing tends to keep them out of Catholic schools, also, but the system is run with internal oversight that seems to keep the finances in line and enough donations coming in that the tuition is kept remarkably low.

I guess it's up to the yeshiva parents and other community leaders to demand some open financial policies at their schools which may one day result in better management where needed, and increased community confidence and financial support, which may lead to more affordable tuitions.

11:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to Goy Guy, youy post at 11:21 is great. Thansk for the insight.

11:56 AM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

i will point out that halachicaly someone who was wealthy, we are required to give him untill he is living at a comparable standard to where he was. if he was accustomed to eat meat and fine bread, then we must give him meat and fine bread.

alot of it has to do with shame, so it may well be applicable.

2:42 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

Goy Guy hits the nail on why the Catholic System is so much more efficient. If we cannot close schools, combine schools, etc, we will never end up finding significant savings. At least in my neighborhood, schools don't run to capacity.

8:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Goy Guy hits the nail on why the Catholic System is so much more efficient. If we cannot close schools, combine schools, etc, we will never end up finding significant savings. At least in my neighborhood, schools don't run to capacity."

And the reasosn why the catholic schools can run like that is centralized adminstration.

We have these fiefdoms where any "Rabbi" can open their doors as a school, without any oversight, financial (and as we learned in Brooklyn) no oversight over the actions of employees (not to say thyat this does not happen in the catholic arena too). If the Jewish Schools were forced to have more financial responsibility, we would start to see some changes.

10:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MOM as the original poster, I think I and the other have beaten this topic to death. Might I suggest that after Rosh Hashonah we tackle the topic of conspicious consumption (you statred with the hair salons), and see what we as a community can do to change peoples need to be social climbers,and "keep up with the Jonses"

10:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FROM THE ORIGINAL POSTER:

CHATAVIA V CATHAMIA TOVAH, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ORTHOMOM AND ALL HER BLOG FRIENDS.

6:33 PM  
Blogger Goy Guy said...

Here's a little tale, to start the new year, of a religious school administrator cooking the books ....

This is part of an article from the Times today. If there's stealing to be done, someone's doing it. This "outstanding" school administrator, Father Bob, cleaned out the accounts of his little Catholic school for over half a million. The school had to close. I'm sure by the trial we'll find out where the money went. The usual, I'm sure. Gambling. Fancy dinners. A little summer place at the shore. Probably something involving a breach of his vow of celibacy ;-) Most of our religious leaders work hard and sacrifice for their "higher calling" but there's always a few.... After all, they are just like the guy down the block, just like us. Regular people and, dare I say, sinners.


WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP, N.J., Sept. 21 — Each year, the Rev. Robert Ascolese, a well-liked pastor in this town of 6,400, ran a “power ball” raffle, selling $100 tickets to raise money for a new building for St. Joseph Catholic Academy. Half the proceeds were to go to the school, and half to the lucky ticket holder.
But the authorities say the only winner was Father Ascolese, who stands accused of stealing more than $600,000 from his church and several charities. The pastor, known as Father Bob here amid the cornfields, stood handcuffed in front of a judge on Thursday in the Warren County courthouse, pleaded not guilty and was released on $75,000 bail.

(So who's watching the money at your kids' school?)

Marianne Van Deursen, the mayor of Washington Township, had a son enrolled in the school and said she bought four lottery tickets each year to support it. She said she, her family and fellow parish members felt “betrayed and disheartened” upon learning of the allegations.

“Nobody wants to believe a man of the cloth could possibly have scammed us,” she said.

(Ironically said by a trusted politician, but very true)

He faces multiple counts of theft, forgery, tampering with public records, conspiracy and theft by deception. Some of the charges carry prison terms of up to 10 years.

Father Ascolese has been on a leave of absence from the church since October, when staff members reported suspicions of theft to the diocese, which contacted prosecutors.

(You see the staff had a higher, religious administrative authority to turn to, the diocese. THEY took a look and called the cops. On their own guy. Of course,we only wish they were so quick to call the cops on some other, non-financial, crimes by priests over the last few decades. But, you know, money is money;-) Does the bookkeeper at your school have anyone to call?)


Walking out of the courthouse, Father Ascolese was asked if, when he drew a raffle ticket, the winner was a real person.
“Usually, yes,” he answered.

("Usually, yes" That's a great line. His lawyer must have smacked him one for that. LOL)

Here's the whole thing. There's a couple of other angles to his stealing in there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/nyregion/22pastor.html


Happy New Year everyone. May we all be blessed with the good health to come here and kvetch for many years to come ;-)

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