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Saturday, September 16, 2006

NYT on Lawrence School Board Conflict - UPDATED

I'm sure everyone who gets the Long Island section of the NY Times saw the front-page piece on the Lawrence school board conflict. I was certainly surprised to see it - almost as surprised as I was to see the mention of this blog on the second page of the article.

As far as my observations on the piece:
1. This line bothered me:
Schools may seem to be a peculiar battlefield in this power struggle, since most Orthodox families here send their children to private Orthodox day schools. But many of this district’s Orthodox residents object to paying school taxes that average about $6,000 per home for a system they do not use. Their leaders also complain that more public money should be channeled to the Orthodox day schools, which by law are limited to tax-financed busing, books and special education services.
Now, I personally have never heard a local community leader call for "more money to be channeled to the Orthodox day schools". As just about everyone here knows, and as the article makes sure to point out, public funds are only mandated for busing, books and special education. I have never heard anyone argue otherwise. What I have heard - and I agree wholeheartedly with that view - is that the private school community is simply not getting equitable treatment when it comes to these few services the state actually mandated dollars to be spent on. I posted here about apparent cuts to busing in recent months, and I have recently heard stories that made my blood boil of private school children who are in dire need of special education services that have been refused by the district.

The law makes the distinction that money cannot be, as the article puts it, "channeled to Orthodox day schools" or any other religious school. And I support that church/state divide. Tax dollars, however, are perfectly allowed to be spent on the children. And what is being objected to in this district is the method of denying children, based on their choice to attend a private school, the services they are as entitled to as any public school child.

2. This was just sick:
“We feel invaded,” said an Atlantic Beach delicatessen customer, a self-described non-Orthodox Jew and activist parent who declined to give her name. “We don’t mind them being here, but taking over and shutting down the school system is not the right thing.”
Um...what??? They "feel invaded"? They "don't mind us being here"???? Is she kidding? How charitable for her to "not mind" us exercising our right to buy a home in any neighborhood we want. Does anyone here entertain the notion, for even a second, that a comment like that would be tolerated about any other ethnic group? Ugh.

3. The notion is presented in the piece that this tension is somehow new, and related solely to the election of an Orthodox majority to the school board. This is the subtitle to the headline:
Tensions rise after Orthodox Jews take control of a school board on Long Island.
"Tensions rise"? I don't think so. As a mater of fact, in my opinion, things have been quite anticlimactically quiet since the new board took office. The rancor that permeated the community during the past few election cycles was palpably higher at school board meetings than it is now.

Another line, from a photo caption accompanying the piece, that I didn't like one bit:
On Long Island, the Orthodox Jewish majority on the school board in Lawrence, which is led by Asher Mansdorf, right, has been criticized as being unresponsive to the rest of the community.
Oh please. That is an absurd allegation to make. First of all, the Orthodox board members took office on July 1. I mean, come on. Unresponsive? In the short time since they've taken office? Not quite. If anything, that's been the private school community's line about the board's unresponsiveness to our needs up until now. It would also be nice if the NY TImes would back up their statement with some quotes. They allege that the board has been criticized of something that they don't present one quote to prove. Are we just supposed to take the Times' word for it that the criticism exists? Also, the Times states throughout the article that the board has an Orthodox majority. That's just untrue. David Sussman is not Orthodox, and his kids attended public school. He may tend to vote in a manner that more closely aligns with the private school agenda - but then the article should say just that. The Times should not try to wrap everything up into this tidy little Orthodox/non-Orthodox package so that their readers can have a more simplified view of what is going on here. This is a complex situation with many different sides to the story. When the Times implies otherwise they do a disservice to the community in discussion, as well as to every one of their readers they mislead. ***Update: Actually, a commenter points out that there is an Orthodox majority, even without David Sussman's vote. The Times is correct on that point, and even mentions Sussman's status. I stand corrected. (Teaches me not to dash off a post right ater Shabbos and while doing ten other things.) The rest of the point I've made stands.

4. Last but not least:

A number of Orthodox residents declined to comment when approached in public. But on the Orthomom blog, an anonymous Orthodox supporter complained of “having to pay twice” for taxes and tuition. An unidentified critic replied, “Maybe you should take advantage of public education or move back to Brooklyn.” The Orthodox supporter countered: “It seems a better solution is that you should move. After all, you’re the one who seems unhappy with how the neighborhood is changing.”

Listen, I'm not complaining about getting an NY Times mention. But I find it amusing that the Times is putting forth anonymous comments left on an anonymous blog as an indication of how people feel.

That's all for now - more later, after I clean the house up from a busy Shabbos.

Update: Krum has an incisive takedown of the article here. His post a must-read.

Previous posts on this issue:
September 2006: I, II
August 2006: I,
July 2006: I, II, III, IV, V,
June 2006: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
May 2006: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
April 2006: I, II, III, IV
March 2006: I, II
December 2005: I
November 2005: I
October 2005: I
August 2005: I
July 2005: I
June 2005: I, II
May 2005: I, II, III, IV, V

451 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

how in the world does a mother of 4 kids get a long post up before i even get the dishes in to the dishwasher?

9:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mazal tov on your mention!

10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have recently heard stories that made my blood boil of private school children who are in dire need of special education services that have been refused by the district"

I will tell you that much to my surprise, my recent experience in this reagrd has ben only positive. The staff was helpful, went the extra mike for my child and I could not be happier with the CSE at this time, but time will tell.

10:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wanted to let you know that for those of us non-LI residents, the article showed up in the NJ section paired with an article about the similair situation going on in Lakewood...

10:30 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

Funny how on the same day the Times gets their panties in a bunch over the Pope's supposedly insensitive remarks about muslims, the Times sees no irony in taking potshots at Orthodox Jews. How absurd!!

11:36 PM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

Thanks for the link and mazel tov on the mention.

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Funny how on the same day the Times gets their panties in a bunch over the Pope's supposedly insensitive remarks about muslims, the Times sees no irony in taking potshots at Orthodox Jews. How absurd!!"

You loose all your credibility when you make such inane comparisons. One ought not say everything that one thinks.

12:15 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"You loose all your credibility when you make such inane comparisons. One ought not say everything that one thinks."

Actually, my criticism and my associating the two is quite apt. The Times contorts itself into a pretzel every time the muslim animals riot and murder innocents, just to demonstrate its slavish adhesion to journalistic balance.

Yet, this desire for giving opposing perspectives a fair shake seems to end right there. The Times doesn't extend a whit of sensitivity or at the very least feign some semblance of integrity when it comes to reproting about issues which pertain to Catholics and Orthodox Jews.

Today's NYT article about the Lawrence school district was an embarrassment and could just as easily appeared in The Jewish Press considering it's shoddy, one-dimentional, innuendo-laden, anonymously-sourced, breathlessly-toned "report" (reads more like a press release) about a complicated and multi-faceted community dispute.

Adding fuel to the fire to enflame what is a religiously-motivated dispute is what they're doing. Exactly what their editorial today is calling the Pope to task for.

4:19 AM  
Anonymous Skip said...

Also, the Times states throughout the article that the board has an Orthodox majority. That's just untrue. David Sussman is not Orthodox, and his kids attended public school. He may tend to vote in a manner that more closely aligns with the private school agenda - but then the article should say just that.



A majority would be one more than half...there are 7 members of the board, 4 are Orthodox, 1 is Sussman and 2 are "public school advocates". Sounds like a majority to me, even if Sussman were to vote for everything Greenbaum/Kopilow votes for, it could still be a 4-3 vote. The times seems to be correct in this case.

7:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Jewish person from the area who knows how exclusionary Orthodox people are toward non-Orthodox Jews, I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't like the property taxes that L.I. is notorious for, you shouldn't have moved there. You're not poor, the median home prices are astronomical. Why are you so cheap? Stop trying to dilute the education for people outside your exclusive community. If you want to pay lower taxes, start your own town. I read the quote in the NYT from a member of YOUR community suggesting that people move out if they don't like the way the neighborhood is changing. Well, you are bad people to have that attitude. I can't believe you guys are so snobby and meanspirited. It baffles me.

11:07 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"As a Jewish person from the area who knows how exclusionary Orthodox people are toward non-Orthodox Jews, I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't like the property taxes that L.I. is notorious for, you shouldn't have moved there. You're not poor, the median home prices are astronomical. Why are you so cheap? Stop trying to dilute the education for people outside your exclusive community. If you want to pay lower taxes, start your own town. I read the quote in the NYT from a member of YOUR community suggesting that people move out if they don't like the way the neighborhood is changing. Well, you are bad people to have that attitude. I can't believe you guys are so snobby and meanspirited. It baffles me."

Taking your comments at face value, do you believe the issue behind all of this is about dismantling the local public schools because "Orthodox Jews don't need them" or about making sure school resources created by tax dollars are being being used to maximum effectiveness and for the benefit of all our town's residents?

I hope you can see past the politically motivated rhetoric that most people in this community, Orthodox Jews prominantly among those, recognize the value and necessity of a successful local school system to perpetate the quality of this neighborhood's residents and to maintain property values.

It also hope you would agree that it is hard to believe any "private school family" is looking simply to trim their tax bill at the expense of families that utilize our local public schools.

11:22 AM  
Anonymous mycroft said...

It also hope you would agree that it is hard to believe any "private school family" is looking simply to trim their tax bill at the expense of families that utilize our local public schools.


It is easy to believe that is what at least 90% of what behind the "private school family" wanting to cut school budgets.
BTW as may be obvious to people who read me in other blogs-I am Orthodox and pay Day School/Yeshiva tuition.

4:00 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

I guess it's a matter of 2-3 years to judge whether the takeover of the board was correct or whether an outside struggle for equity in taxes and receiving funds for private education was a wise move. As none of the ladies in the picture on the web had their head covered, I guess we missed OrthoMom again.

4:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think you'd recognize her anyway. Because wigs are getting really fancy and "real" these days in this fancy "community" of ours.

5:04 PM  
Blogger MordyS said...

Something I find quite interesting is the fact that the Inwood community is made up of a substantial Italian Catholic population. I'm not familiar with how popular private Catholic schools are in different Italian communities, but I'm under the impression that Inwood is a working class community that very much supports the public schools. I’m guessing that they don’t send as many of their kids to Catholic schools either because they just don’t want to pay the tuition, can’t afford the tuition, or are not as religious in practice that they don’t feel it necessary to have their kids taught a full Catholic curriculum. I’m not Catholic and I’m not familiar with how their communities work, so I could be completely wrong, but I don’t assume it’s too different from Jewish communities. I guess there are different levels of religious dedication and economic priorities, and depending on plenty of factors, you decide whether or not to send your child to a public or private school.
However, while working with Italians in Lawrence a little while back, we had quite a few discussions about the school board. The people I worked with were convinced that the Jews don't care much about them. But they also seemed to understand the logic that why should we care to pay twice for schooling? I believe though, that they could understand why we don't want to pay for them to have football games just so they can get into fist fights with the East Rockaway team. I mean, I'm all for a successful and stimulating PE program, but we should be given a reason to want to support the public schools.
It's rather cliche to refer to this whole situation as a vicious cycle, but we're supposed to be led to believe that if we support a public school system and successfully steer it in the right direction, we will be rewarded with academically successful neighbors that get themselves into great colleges and ultimately go on to succeed in life and advance the conditions of the entire community.
However, if the other side of the 878 is convinced that we Jews don't really give much of a toot about them, they see no reason in approaching their situation with a forward thinking view. So the Orthos will look at Mott Ave and the (not particularly Italian) gangs that hang out and see a waste of tax dollars on an unsuccessful school district, while the non-Orthos will look at the Jews in charge as never even giving them a chance, while in fact, like Orthomom has pointed out, neither side has had nearly enough time to show how much good they are capable of achieving.
But we all know time doesn’t really heal wounds as easily as we’d hope and the fact that these feelings have been brewing long before the school board was actually taken hold by the Orthodox community shows that we do have a heckuva lot to prove in order to win over the other side.
Therefore the only thing both sides can hope for is that whatever budget dollars do get spent, get spent in the most productive way possible, and prove to each other that the only thing both sides care about is the education and future of the children of Southwestern Nassau County.
And also, so what if Atlantic Beach secedes? How could it possibly damage the Lawrence district? I would think it would the non-Orthos of Lawrence and Inwood would enjoy the more focus that each dollar gets towards their own kids. Maybe they just enjoy the unity of opposition more. I mean, do the busses have to pay every time they cross Atlantic Beach bridge or do they get a decal?

5:51 PM  
Anonymous glad I'm not in NY said...

“Other communities are watching Lawrence very closely, for fear they may be next,” said Prof. William B. Helmreich, the director of the Center for Jewish Studies at Queens College. Orthodox adherents “are cohesive, they marshal forces and vote as a bloc,” he said. “It could happen anywhere.”

That's a disgustingly ominous-sounding, fear-mongering comment.

Republicans and Democrats are cohesive, marshal forces, and vote as a bloc too! It could happen anywhere! Oh, wait, it already does!

Palestinians are cohesive, marshal forces, and vote as a bloc with their explosive belts too! Oh, wait, they NYT would call that RACIST of me, wouldn't they? Well, SCREW the NYT.

I've been watching this for a long time, and I have to say I'm glad I live hundreds of miles from New York. New Yorkers in general are far more nuts than average Americans. Sorry New Yorkers, but you do not qualify as average Americans!

FWIW, Catholic schools are waaaaaay cheaper than Jewish day schools, at least out here.

6:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"we should be given a reason to want to support the public schools"

Um ... because 15 years from now you don't want to live someplace where the cashiers in the stores can't do enough math to make change and half the young people can't read well enough to get a job. The survival and success of the community as a whole -- not just the Orthodox people -- depends on everyone being educated to a certain standard and on some sense of civic cohesiveness that public education has traditionally provided.

6:38 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

Um ... because 15 years from now you don't want to live someplace where the cashiers in the stores can't do enough math to make change and half the young people can't read well enough to get a job. The survival and success of the community as a whole -- not just the Orthodox people -- depends on everyone being educated to a certain standard and on some sense of civic cohesiveness that public education has traditionally provided.

This argument is laughable as always. If there is a cycle here, then it's more like a 40 year cycle and no one is expected to worry that far ahead. No one needs to lose sleep over the possibility of no qualified cashiers living in the lawrence school district - In the worst case scenario that you describe, cashiers can be brought in from Hewlett-Woodmere and Queens.

But enough of the stupidity - let's call a spade a spade. Nobody wants to support a failing district with a record of squandering taxpayer funds. And the argument about supporting public schools to maintain property values isn't very meaningful in a community where property values have doubled because people want to live within walking distance of a synagogue and have the conveniences of a flourishing orthodox community. But at the same time, it is not really the nature of this group known in the district as "you people" to plunder the district and shut the schools down - at least not the majority of the "you people." What most of the "you people" do expect is fair representation, equitable distribution of services (i.e., the maximum permitted under the law to be provided to private schools) and reassurance that they are not pissing their money away in a district that pays teachers and administrators too much, maintains facilities half empty (out of pride and convenience), and expects little academic achievement from students/teachers.

Yes, the "you people" element is selfish in that they want equitable services and don't want their money to be pissed away by underperforming administrators, but regardless if they sincerely care about the academic achievement of any given public school student, the majority of the "you people" accept their responsibility to subsidize public education, and would happily settle for funding a district that is clearly flourishing academically (and grants them somewhat equitable services).

7:59 PM  
Blogger MordyS said...

Anon @ 6:38-

That's exactly my point.

Read the next line:

"but we're supposed to be led to believe that if we support a public school system and successfully steer it in the right direction, we will be rewarded with academically successful neighbors that get themselves into great colleges and ultimately go on to succeed in life and advance the conditions of the entire community."

The public school people have to hold up their end of the bargain and decide that they would like to actually put some effort into some day becoming educated people, just like us Jews have to prove that we're not just in this for our own selfish motives. And hopefully time will prove both to be true.

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

althougt I somewhat agree with Spirit, I think that it's worth mentioning that houses doubled almost everywhere in LI. So don't flatter the area, because just like everywhere else there is nice amount of houses on the market in the neighborhood and I don't see them being sold "even those few blocks from the shul"

8:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

YMedad, the ladies in the photograph are the District Clerk, a school Principal, a PTA Unit President and a former School Board Member.

And Mordys: not all the Jews in Lawrence attend Orthodox Day Schools. My (Jewish) son was told by a yarmulke-wearing classmate that he can't possibly be Jewish because he doesnt wear a yarmulke, too. By your reasoning we should tell the young man he can't possibly be Jewish either, because he's not in Yeshiva. In any event, you are in no position to judge the quality of either boy's efforts to become educated.

12:29 AM  
Blogger Goy Guy said...

Mordys said...
"Something I find quite interesting is the fact that the Inwood community is made up of a substantial Italian Catholic population. I'm not familiar with how popular private Catholic schools are in different Italian communities, but I'm under the impression that Inwood is a working class community that very much supports the public schools. I’m guessing that they don’t send as many of their kids to Catholic schools either because they just don’t want to pay the tuition, can’t afford the tuition, or are not as religious in practice that they don’t feel it necessary to have their kids taught a full Catholic curriculum. I’m not Catholic and I’m not familiar with how their communities work, so I could be completely wrong, but I don’t assume it’s too different from Jewish communities. I guess there are different levels of religious dedication and economic priorities, and depending on plenty of factors, you decide whether or not to send your child to a public or private school."

First of all, The "Italians Catholics in Inwood" I'm quite sure are really AMERICANS since they live in the United States. And there are thousands of Catholics in the school district and most of them aren't "Italian".

But my main point here is to educate you on the Catholic school thing. Most Catholic parents on Long Island send their kids to public school. There are 1.5 million Catholics on LI out of 3 million people. Therefore around 50% of the kids on LI are Catholic. The 58 Catholic Elementary Schools on LI enroll 24,000 children, most of whom are from Long Island. There are also 11 catholic High schools on Long Island.Naturally some kids from Long Island attend schools in the city and the other way around, but you get the idea.

In the olden days, back in the big city, most Catholics were immigrants from Ireland, Italy etc. and like the Jews at the time were just just the illiterate unwashed masses with their funny clothes and funny accents and smelly food and strange religious customs, scorned by general WASP society, and relegated to the poorest of educational situations. School segrigation was legal in this country not that long ago, remember? They still have forced school busing and integration throughout the south.

The Catholic school system was an answer to that discrimination. It served the religious aims of Church leaders and the somewhat more selfish aims of parents wanting better schools for their kids. Through this system and the assimilation into society that education brings, Catholics moved from the docks to the boardrooms and court rooms and operating rooms of America. And then to Long Island and other suburbs. There, they weren't the new immigrants anymore, but among the leaders, and with others helped build fine public school systems. Where they then sent their kids.

So today on LI, maybe 10% or less of these kids go to Catholic schools. A lot of kids, but a small percentage. In the city, of course the schools are more popular, since so many public schools suck. But the schools that are there are very fine schools indeed.
And the tuition isn't what holds back the parents either. Average elementary school tuition is $3000. High School is 6-7000. These are schools with at least 90% certified teachers on the elementary level. Computers in every classrooms. Sports, clubs, etc.

I heard an ad on the radio today for St Dominics High School in Oyster Bay. They said they graduated a little over 100 kids this year, and that those kids recieved over 10 million dollars in scholarships. 98% go to college. Not bad, eh? Most but not all students are Catholic. Students of all faiths are welcome.

They have a beautiful school, an indoor sports center that seats 2000, a fine arts center, a huge outdoor sports center in Muttontown with all sorts of ballfields and other facilities including a conference center. There is of course the full range of clubs, teams, and other extra curricular activities, both religious and secular.

Did I mention the tuition is only $6,800? And contrary to popular belief, the school, like most Catholic schools, is not subsidized by the "Vast Resources of the Catholic Church". The Church didn't get those vast resources by pissing money away on schools. The only source of income is tuition, misc. funds available from tax resources to all private schools, fund raising and rich alumni. Which is why cranking out students to the top colleges is so important. To keep those alumni rich and support future generations of students.

Makes you wonder why the tuition at your Yeshiva is so high doesn't it? Of course no one is running any Catholic high school as a business, and the administrators aren't paying themselves a few hundred grand a year. If parents had any idea how many home improvements and car payments etc. in the five towns and Far Rockaway are paid for with yeshiva checks, they'd s***. And yes I DO know what I'm talking about. I've received them. "Rabbi's Discretionary Fund" That's a good one. "Hmmm, let me use my discretion here, should we get the Lexus or the Lincoln, honey?"

Of course it wouldn't be good form to drop a dime to the secular authorities, would it? You know what a mean b**** that new DA is, she would embarass the whole community! Better to keep paying the inflated tuition AND the high taxes.

Wake up everyone. You would save a lot more money if you sent the DA and the IRS to your kid's yeshiva than by voting down the school budget. And of course by encouraging the Jewish community to be a little more generous in their support of Jewish educational institutions the way the Catholics are. I actually see people proposing a sort of Jewish Education "tax" in the community to help the Jewish schools. How sad is that? Forcing people to support the schools that they claim are the very backbone of Jewish culture.

12:44 AM  
Blogger MordyS said...

Thank you GG, that was very informative and I really learned a lot.
And yes, I'm aware of the many other Irish, Polish, German and other Catholics that all contribute to the large Catholic population.
However, the reason I'm so curious is because it seems quite the opposite case in Bergen County, NJ. I don't know what the figures are, and maybe I'm just a lot more familiar with Bergen County, but Catholic Schools seem to be a lot more in abundance there than what I've noticed on the Island. And like you've pointed out, the percentage on the Island that does attend Catholic schools is rather small compared to the size of the Catholic population. So I was curious if maybe the make up of the Catholic population of Bergen County happens to be different than how things are on the Island, and if so, why would that be? But like I said, it could be that I notice more, but it's actually the same numbers as on the Island. But overall it seems as if there are some similarities, but it's not too similar of a situation. However, even if Jewish schools weren't created for quite as noble causes as Catholic schools (which I'm sure some would contend is an arguable point anyway) just the fact that Jews have the right to send their kids to their own schools is enough for them to exist. One of my best friends (another Orthodox Jew) is from New Orleans, where he attended a Catholic middle school. He has a very high regard for the sisters from that school because they treated him with respect, and never imposed anything on him that was against Judaism. He did not have the privilege (some might call it a curse) of living in a large Jewish neighborhood, with schools and other services that cater to his particular faith. But now he is married, and lives in Far Rockaway, and he is able to benefit from all those services that make it that much easier to live like a Jew.
And I'm sorry if the reference to Italians came out sounding not up to par in the PC department, but yes, I certainly acknowledge that they are more American than most of the Jews in America today.
Also, about the alumni, I'm reminded of a yeshiva named Ner Yisrael in Baltimore where there's a plaque for just about every brick on every building. I'm exaggerating, but it's very common of alumni to give money to yeshivas. Have you driven down 878 recently and seen the new Shar Yoshuv building on the corner of Cedar Lawn lane? Believe me, they didn't get that building from tuition money. But you do bring up a great point that they push their kids to get into great colleges and produce new rich alumni. The yeshivas will soon learn that having everyone sit and learn in yeshiva, and sending no one to college is a horrible way to guarantee rich baal habatim capable of supporting their yeshivas for a bunch more years.
And of course, no one would deny the fiscal irresponsibility that is constantly shown in many orthodox schools, however there are plenty of blogs that deal with that issue. I don't think that's news to anyone reading this blog.

4:04 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

Thanks for the info. And good luck with your community conflict.

6:32 AM  
Blogger Goy Guy said...

MordyS said...

"I'm just a lot more familiar with Bergen County, but Catholic Schools seem to be a lot more in abundance there than what I've noticed on the Island."

Possibly the Catholic schools there are in areas with crappy public schools. Those schools get kids of all faiths beating the doors down to get in. I doubt the Catholics there are more religious. Not that many of us are, really.

"even if Jewish schools weren't created for quite as noble causes as Catholic schools"

Actually I would think they were created to continue the many centuries tradition of separate private Jewish education from the old country. For Catholics it was kinda different. In Italy, Ireland, France, etc. ALL the schools were Catholic Schools back then, I assume.The discrimination started over here. The Jews have been getting discriminated against everywhere from the beginning of time.

"But you do bring up a great point that they push their kids to get into great colleges and produce new rich alumni."

And of course I was slightly stretching the rich alumni point. Most Catholic schools are built with the accumulated small donations of regular folks. The nickles and dimes of school children as they say. But the rich people help ;-)

7:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honestly, this could have been written a year ago-nothing new here it just takes the NYT a while to get caught up.

9:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And of course I was slightly stretching the rich alumni point. Most Catholic schools are built with the accumulated small donations of regular folks. The nickles and dimes of school children as they say. But the rich people help ;-0"

Whereas most Jewish Schools need to do a better job of fundraising espically from Alumni. It shocked me that with all its great alumni, even YU has only this month achieved its 1st 100 million donation (not an alumni either). It seems a real shame to me that here in the 5 towns we support charities from all over the world, as is evidenced by the almost weekly visits from persosn outside the community soliciting for 1 org or an other, but yet homegrown charity has taken a back seat. Charity begins at home with the nickel and dimes of the school children, which in the case of local jewish schools is usually sent outside the community. Lest see how much we could raise in Boro Park at a fundraiser for a 5 towns jewish school, not to much.

10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was thinking very seriously of moving to Teaneck around teh corner from a big Orthodox shul. We are an interfaith family -- I am a Jewish woman, my son is Jewish, my husband is a Catholic. We are a good family -- have a lot to offer our community. Both of us are professionals. We will not move to Teaneck after reading this article. What the Orthodox have done in Lawrence and Lakewood is bound to happen in Teaneck next, I fear.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What the Orthodox have done in Lawrence and Lakewood"

This is an inflamatory statement, probably sent out jsut to mix things up ( so I give 10:21 the benefit of the doubt)

Maybe I am missing something, but this is not an religious issue, but rather a community growing pains issue, that could happen in many other communities all over the country. It could happen in Detroit (and probably did in Dearborn, whith Muslim children going to Mushara schools). It could happen in Florida and Arizona with retiree communities.

What exactly have the orthodox "done"? Maybe 10:21 can tell me. If someone uttered such a negative about any other minority, the ACLU, NAACP, and other leftist groups would be out there protesting.

Come on people, we don't have enough people hating jews already now its open season on orthodox.

10:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well as one of your intelligent members said "shoot to kill not wound" and we orthos dont give a sh*t nor should we about public schools.. I think that kind of laid it on the line, no?

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"well as one of your intelligent members said "shoot to kill not wound" and we orthos dont give a sh*t nor should we about public schools.. I think that kind of laid it on the line, no?"

to 11:45 - while the quote above is inappropirate, it is only a quote. 10:21 has accused the "orthodox" community of doing things to the Public School, that are uniquly "orthodox Acts". Did we pray for the destruction of the Lawrence Public Schools??. Do wo use voodo dolls of Dr. F to cause him to withhold transportation dollars??

What has the orthodox community "done" (not said, but done)that makes use unsusal??

12:22 PM  
Anonymous Abe said...

"As a Jewish person from the area who knows how exclusionary Orthodox people are toward non-Orthodox Jews, I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't like the property taxes that L.I. is notorious for, you shouldn't have moved there. You're not poor, the median home prices are astronomical. Why are you so cheap? Stop trying to dilute the education for people outside your exclusive community. If you want to pay lower taxes, start your own town. I read the quote in the NYT from a member of YOUR community suggesting that people move out if they don't like the way the neighborhood is changing. Well, you are bad people to have that attitude. I can't believe you guys are so snobby and meanspirited. It baffles me."

This is an offensive and bigoted comment, and anyone who would write this clearly has issues and an agenda other than "what is best for the kids". I think it is noteworthy that all of this "you people" talk is starting precisely in a community where ther are so many non-Orthodox Jews. Some percentage of the non-Orthodox (although I do not believe most)have chips on theior shoulder, feelings of discomfort around observant Jews -in some cases perhaps because they left an Orthodox lifestyle (their prerogative, but that does not make everyone who chooses to live that lifestyle "narrow" or "exclusionary"). My advice to this anonymous bigot who paints everyone of another group with such an ad hominym broad stroke - keep quiet -it is people like you (on both sides of the issue) who are fanning the flames, perhaps for you own perverted amusement, or to assuage some guilty feelings -I don't know and I don't care, but staements like your are part of the problem, not part of the solution - it is YOU who is a bad person. In the context of your biased statement,I would not ever mention YOUR community, whatever you think that is defined as, because I would assume that most people, even those who may agree with you on some issues, would repudiate your bigoted comments.

12:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:41 - Well said. This can apply to all the commenters who use this forum for hate and not for healing

1:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once again I am extremely humilitated by what was printed again about this community. We should ALL be ashamed. Our behavior is worse than our children.
1. I am sorry people feel they are paying twice and I can understand, but when a person buys a house, they have to know what the taxes will be. The state has not changed there laws.
2. I also agree busing has to change in some ways, but whining about walking three blocks six blocks, walking in general, sorry can't go there, my kids walk to stops. Just because you do not utilize the public schools, does not mean limo service should be available.
3. If there are people who were rejected for needed special ed services, and they truly qualified, and I say that meaning they scored below STATE guidlines, then why write to the papers, why go to your religous leader, perhaps utilizing, the central council PTA presidents, Lisa Fodera and Kathy Marky as a bridge with the cse, and special ed department, I am sure they would be more than happy to help. If that does not work how bout the SEPTA, special education parent teacers organization. Marilyn Calik has years of experience and also would be happy to help. If all those things fail, make an appointment with Dr. Fitzsimmons. I know for a fact he has stepped in, for some children in this community and worked things out for some, and for others, they truly did not qualify. Until ALL people in this community start to try to work things out we will be a subject to these humiliating articles.

1:18 PM  
Blogger Spirit_of_Lawrence said...

If I felt humiliated by every instance of NYT's offensive or poor journalism ...

1:42 PM  
Anonymous Abe said...

Annonymous @1:18. The generalities contained in your comment are laudable. Everyone should work together for the good of everyone else.

However, your specific comments at best reflect a misunderstanding of people's actions and expectations:

1. We ALL expect to pay taxes, and do so. However, we also ALL have a right to vote. America has not changed its laws. If you are disappointed or disagree with the results of an election, then get involved in getting out the vote. Do not condemn people for exercising their right to vote. Nothing more sinister than that happened here.

2. "Just because you do not utilize the public schools does not mean limo service should be available". Did you read that after you wrote it? Limo service -come on. No one is asking for that, and as for closer bus stops, that is more or less of a concern for different people depending on circumstances (age of kids, parental work schedules etc.) It has nothing to do with a community schism regarding the public schools, and is a strange issue to grasp onto. Ironically, in some other fora I have seen accusations made against the Orthodox precisely because we walk on Saturdays. So I guess we should drive on Saturday, and walk the rest of the time. Hmmm.

3. What exactly do you think people are asking for - some exemption from STATE guidelines. The issue is of availability of services to which some children who have qualified under State guidlelines are entitled, not qualification. And no one that I know runs to their "religious leader" with that type of issue. That is a real stereotype you are perpetuating. They generally deal with the district and Dr. Fitzsimmons in the same manner you or anyone else would.

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do not condemn people for exercising their right to vote. Nothing more sinister than that happened here.

1.Where did I mention the budget in my posting ? Where did I mention the budget vote? I did not, you see, I know that this is America and you have freedom and choices that pertain to all. ABE by bringing up the budget, trying to stir the pot??

I have seen accusations made against the Orthodox precisely because we walk on Saturdays. So I guess we should drive on Saturday, and walk the rest of the time. Hmmm.

2. Hmmm, what are you talking about?? I was talking about people who do not want there children to walk three blocks to a bus stop!! I do not judge you because you walk on Saturday to shul. I have no idea about accusations against people for walking on Saturday.

The issue is of availability of services to which some children who have qualified under State guidlelines are entitled, not qualification

3. Abe, I think you are a little confused about the Ny state special education laws, Perhaps you would like to join the Special education pta, then you could be informed enough to write exactly what goes on with special education in this district. Now, do me a favor, before you turn around and write some more, that has nothing to do with anything we are writing about, let me advise you I resent the fact you write as though I am some anti-semite, I truly believe in working together. The way you wrote, sums up how some feel on BOTH sides, Sad, my grandfathers family lived in Poland, I wonder as Hitler took them and killed 50 of them if he asked if they were public or private??? Hmmm bet you they just thought of us the same JEWS

2:40 PM  
Anonymous Abe said...

1. You wrote about taxes. Taxes are function of the budget. The budget is fixed by elected board members and then voted on. But then, you know all that already.
2. As I said, that is something I have seen in other fora. I didn't say that you had anything to so with that statement; however, it is an avenue of attack thta I have seen in letters to some of the local papers -something about blocking the streets. Thus a legitimate point, unlike writing sarcastically about limos.
3. See my earlier comment. No one said anything about you being an anti-semite. You did hewver write about people going to their religius leader. I have no idea who you are or what your experience is. U tone thin I do know, to quote my own statement to which you are ostensibly responding:"no one that I know runs to their "religious leader" with that type of issue. That is a real stereotype you are perpetuating. They generally deal with the district and Dr. Fitzsimmons in the same manner you or anyone else would."

2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abe said

Okay, perhaps I misunderstood some of your comments. The paragraph about religous leaders was in refrence to the Rabbi's who placed an ad in the paper about the special education services not being given.

Look, we all want whats best for our children. I agree that transportation has been a bit messy this year, and I am against any bus stops on main roads.

A family that I know of, has a child going to a prep school in the area. He was placed on a bus with some children going to a yeshieva. The parents of the children going to the yeshieva called and complained, and now they have a seperate bus for the on child.

Both sides of the coin have got to stop and work together, when we join forces, we have to agree to disagree, choose our battles, as long as we are seperate we won't accomplish. If together, perhaps we all will win.

3:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abe said

One more point, on a whole if I drive on a Saturday, 99% of the people walking, move to the side, I have experienced first hand somone who would not move, I did not honk, I sat there, and waited, I did not associate them with anyone group, I just thought they were rude, and that is the way some people are in general.

3:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Abe and Anymous back and forth is called Dilogue. What others are doing is stirring the pot. Thanks Abe and Anno.

3:41 PM  
Anonymous Abe said...

Anonymous @ 3:20/3:22

I agree with all of your most recent comments. The one thing I would add regarding the story about the Orthodox parents complaining about the prep school kid on the bus, is that while I have no doubt that you are relating what you were told, absent some real reason (e.g behavior) I know of no reason that Orthodox parents would ask for another child in that situation to be removed from the bus. So if they just insisited on the child being removed for no reason that would be unacceptable to me. However 1.you are repeating a story that was told you by other people who have an interest in it (i.e if the child was a behavior problem, they probably would not share that with you; 2. It is apparently an isolated story, as we thankfully do not hear about these situations regularly -and I think if it was a common issue it would have been dragged up in all the negative press and letter to the editor of various publications etc.; and 3. it is possible that the child was removed from the bus for other reasons having nothing to do with parnts complaining (e.g. to make a more sensible bus route for the children or for that child who apparently was attending a different school) -I have seen my own children's buses and bus routes changed before, and usually the district does not tell you why. Perhaps someone incorrectly surmised that. In any case since this story is an abberation, whether true or not, I do not think it really shows anything except that (as you aptly said) some people are rude or behave inappropriately -I would hate to think that anyone would expostulate from that situation that anyone Orthodox thinks that absent a reason, that bus removal was a good thing.

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

of course he was rude or had a behavior problem. one would never think this individual was removed from the bus due to the fact that he was not orthodox, right? I mean all the ortho's I know have no issues mixing with non- orthos and the like. we are here today for this exact reason coupled with " fiscal irresponsibily" which I cannot disagree with but let's not pretend other issues do not exist. not to stir the pot, Abe but it is what it is. and for the anoym who claimed that "to 11:45 - while the quote above is inappropirate, it is only a quote. 10:21 has accused the "orthodox" community of doing things to the Public School, that are uniquly "orthodox Acts". Did we pray for the destruction of the Lawrence Public Schools??. Do wo use voodo dolls of Dr. F to cause him to withhold transportation dollars?? .. that very quote althogh it is " just a quote" underlines the very belief in the ortho community.. I've seen such posts before some even more blunt and hateful ( i do appreciate the bluntness ).. Certainly not the entire community but definately the majority. so let's hear some of those " we need to heal and work as a whole community" comments.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Abe said...

anonymous at 5:12:

The tone of your comment is very negative and is indicative of the problem. And while it is true that the Orthodox community is, in certain ways, by virtue of its religious customs and practices, a sub-group within the community, the Orthodox community is itself by no means uniform. It encompasses people from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of philosophies, united in certain basic practices, one such practice (of the majority of Orthodox people) being that we send our children to (a spectrum of)Yeshivas and Jewish Day Schools so that they can learn about their religion and traditions. It is absolutely unfair and counterproductive to make a statement insinuating that most Orthodox people (or even an identifiable minority)in the 5 Towns would in any way condone the removal of a child from a school bus based on relious affiliation absent another compelling reason. If someone would assume that a child was removed from a bus because the child was not Orthodox, then the person making that assumption would be bringing a whole lot of baggage into the equation. Not to mention, the person making that assumption would be accusing the District, which makes bussing decisons, of unconstitutional conduct, which is a serious charge and should not be done anonymously. And your dredging up old quotations from either side from during the election is similarly counterproductive and not a way to move forward. If everyone would spend the time scrutinizing their OWN comments and quotes and not what the "other side" said, the whole situation would probably be greatly improved. And I absolutely disagree that the majority of the communtiy is involved in making hateful comments. In fact I think most people on whatever side in terms of voting have never written or publicly stated anything about this issue (we are of course all aware of it, from the local media, and most (hopefully) of us vote or conscience). I myself never wrote a word about this whole situation until today (it is very cathartic though).

6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 5:12 who says "just a quote" underlines the very belief in the ortho community.."

I am 11:45. I am orthodox. I have lived in this community over 30 years. I have had wonderful relationship with my many non-ortho and non jewish neighnors, so I find the retoric on both sides to be irresponsible, and shame on 10;21, who claims to be an enlightned jew from NJ, but can't live with orthodox because they (and i'll paraphrase 5:12's line) of their "beliefs". What religious beliefs do we have that are specfically anti public school or anti non orthodox. Like i said earlier, do you think we go to shul and pray for the destruction of the public schools. I think it is all in your head. By the same token, do 5;12 and 10:21 think that becuase someone is orthodox they are good tolerant people. No They seem to think all (or at least a majority)are very irresponsible people, but there are only a few irresponsible people on both sides of this topic (and they all seem to follow this blog), but to broadly paint a community as out of touch is so totally wrong on the part of 5:12 and 10:21.

5:12 (apparently a member of the 5 towns community) only wants to divide. 10:21 doesnt even matter she does not live here and should mind her own business.

6:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:19 correcting someting. I am not 11:45 i am th poster that 5:12 is commenting on.

6:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this was a dumb dialogue
... and now it's a confusing dumb dialogue.

If you sincerely want to add value, please pick a username.

6:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:37 The best way to keep it focused is for outsiders (like those from NJ) to mind their own business, and for those who want to hate to not hide behind the anynomus. Those of who are trying to just get by are the norm.

6:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abe,

The story about the public school child being taken off the bus was told to me by the father. The child is a very sweet kid. The parents are nice people who do not stir the pot. They were just sadden that there child is all alone on a bus. Hopefully your right it is isolated. Everyone take a deep breath, relax, it is only busing, remember we pass on the hate....

7:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just got home from the Transportation Committee meeting - or "Why is my door to door busing gone this year?" As I am now referring ot it...

A woman for the GREATER COMMUNITY had the audacity to say that her bus stop is "now in an area where High School students from um er all different schools walk by, and this is very dangerous." Forgive me if I am not quoting her exactly- but that is the gist!

HELLLLOOOO!!!

Just a thought- maybe if she did not grow up in a bubble and raise her children in that same bubble- the site
of a person of a different race, creed, religious persuasion or color would not frighten her so!

To make an accusation as such is disgraceful! As if our children are raised to throw rocks at the little Jewish children as they wait for their bus - because they no longer get picked up under the safety of their own front doors!

That was beautiful.

Does no one else see that as clearly defined prejudice? To ease her mind- we should all make sure all the children get picked up at their doors - so as not to have contact with the big bad public school children.

11:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


To make an accusation as such is disgraceful! As if our children are raised to throw rocks at the little Jewish children as they wait for their bus - because they no longer get picked up under the safety of their own front doors!


Maybe you are not aware of the fact that the Nassau County PD has been called numerous times for (yes) rock throwing at homes on Lawrence Av, with a window even getting broken last year. The perpetrators? Why, Lawrence Middle School students. There are bad apples everywhere. re you willing to vouch for the character of every teenager coming out of any shool (public or private) to the extent that small children should wait unattended? Have you driven past Lawrence, Woodmere, or any other high school at dismissal? They can be a pretty damn rowdy bunch.

Get over your indignation. The woman has a point. High school students are not known to be the safest drivers or pedestrians around.

11:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 11:51 said "The perpetrators? Why, Lawrence Middle School students. There are bad apples everywhere. re you willing to vouch for the character of every teenager coming out of any shool (public or private) to the extent that small children should wait unattended?"


Where is this proof that the Middle School children did this? Or are you creating the proof needed to justify prejudicial statements?

Not being the safest drivers is not what she said!
She said walking past.

And why are small children left unattended?
It is the parent/caregiver's responsibility to wait with the children
- especially small ones!

11:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where is this proof that the Middle School children did this? Or are you creating the proof needed to justify prejudicial statements?

The witness (my friend) who saw a group of kids do just that.

Not being the safest drivers is not what she said!
She said walking past.


And I said drivers AND pedestrians.


And why are small children left unattended?
It is the parent/caregiver's responsibility to wait with the children


I might leave my 11 year old at my corner, but I wouldnt keave my 11 year old in an area where high school students congregate. This isnt about prejudice. You have your head in the sand if you think that high school kids are as a rule, well-behaved and polite.

12:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 12:03 said
"You have your head in the sand if you think that high school kids are as a rule, well-behaved and polite."

I do not make a habit of generalizing
or using any "rule" when it comes to human beings. You ought to try that!

Your head is up a darker, warmer place...use your expensive private school education to figure it out!

Thank you for corroborating all I said about prejudice...

With people like you and the idiot from tonight's meeting spreading horrible accusations- we are truly doomed to never unite this district.

But hey- when has that ever truly been the objective?
Turning our enrollment into a 3 building district rather that a 6 building district is the aim of some of the NEW ORTHOS- as I heard with my own ears.

12:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way- remember Etan Patz?
Maybe his mother should not have allowed him to go to school alone either...

11 years old is still a child!

12:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your head is up a darker, warmer place...use your expensive private school education to figure it out!

Thank you for corroborating all I said about prejudice...

With people like you and the idiot from tonight's meeting spreading horrible accusations- we are truly doomed to never unite this district.


HUH? Where di you get the idea that i was "Ortho"? I'm not. Nor did I attend public school. Apparently you are one of those people who like to discard the truth based on whence you assume it came from.

12:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way- remember Etan Patz?
Maybe his mother should not have allowed him to go to school alone either...

11 years old is still a child!


I think we all now that 11 year olds all across the district, from public and private schools, wait for the bus without their parents. Lets be realistic here.

12:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I never said you were "ortho".
I did assume you did not attend public school because you lambast them so freely.

And shame on those parents God forbid anything happen to their small 11 year old while they are left to wait alone/unattended for a bus. That goes for any persuasion!

That is my opinion - and I stand by it.
These are different times.

12:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I did assume you did not attend public school because you lambast them so freely.


"Lambast"? if you think that's what I did you don't want to hear what I have to say about my enemies. I stated that a mother is justified, whatever community she comes from, to ask for her child's stop to be moved from a busy intersection brimming with high school students.

Actually, you lambasted her. And thats where I cam in and this "conversation" started.

12:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can anyone just report (without editorials)on the meeting, for those of us who could not make it.

8:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who are the three women speaking with the board member in the picture reported in the ny times?

12:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who are the three women speaking with the board member in the picture reported in the ny times?

They are all Orthomom.

12:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for the misinformed response

1:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can anyone just report (without editorials)on the meeting, for those of us who could not make it.

Basically, people got up and stated there complaints. Some were very valid. Five year olds on west brodway. Children walking six blocks past a sex offenders house. Some were a bit whiny, they did not want to walk, as they have no help, it is to far to walk with such heavy books. What I thought was odd , was children are on the bus an hour and they go to local schools, one mother said they live five minutes away, why are we busing ANY from either commnity five minutes....

1:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

is that 5 minutes walk or driving time? could make a difference as 5 minutes driving would equate to x amount of time walking

1:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it was a 5 minute drive the mother was talking about. from Penninsula blvd to Broadway could be about a five minute drive but could easily be a 20-25 minute walk (if not longer).

1:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

which is the point I was trying to make.

2:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone been able to get an answer as to why busing has changed and who changed it? Identify the source(s);correct the problems and move on. Transportation ALWAYS had some problems at the start of school. They were fixed in the first few weeks. Let's deal with the real problems in the schools-improving our childrens performance.

2:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the problems with transportation this year is 150 children registered the first week, more children enrolled in private school, and changing to centralized bus stops. I think ALL children should have the centralized bus stops. I also think not everyone (both) should get busing. We are less than a half a mile from my son's school and we get busing, any other district I would be driving.

2:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

some folks dont drive. hard to believe in this day and age but it's true or they may not be able to afford a car? just a thought

2:46 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

Poor OrthoMom - this stream of comments is, from a distance, seemingly worthless and completely off the important subject at hand.

2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i would hate to see any kid, with a load of books at any age from any walk of life walk half a mile to school on anything other than a warm sunny day.. goy guy may disagree with this

2:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i would hate to see any kid, with a load of books at any age from any walk of life walk half a mile to school on anything other than a warm sunny day.. goy guy may disagree with this

2:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reason why things changed is because this year there is a new Director of Transportation. She apparently didn't get the memo that certain families get door-to-door service, and she ran the bus route software without knowing that people feel entitled to the door to door service they were getting, some for years, based upon some sort of informal understanding and the direct dealings between private school officers and the transportation office, or direct dealings between drivers and parents. So on paper, not much changed but in "real life" a lot of people seem to have lost a lot of door to door or other convenience arrangements. The drivers were apparently told not to make special arrangements to change the routes this year and this seems to have caused a lot of grief.

The ladies talking to Dr. Mansdorf are a school principal, a former board member, and a PTA Unit President. The district clerk is on the opposite side of the table.

4:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for the recap.. much appreciated...

4:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Poor OrthoMom - this stream of comments is, from a distance, seemingly worthless and completely off the important subject at hand.

2:52 PM

I am unsure of your meaning. The subject at hand is busing. People are giving there opinions. This is called freedom of speech. Unfortunately they may not share your beliefs, and that is okay, but to say it's worthless, is way off and unhelpful. It is unfortunate that you feel this way, part of the reason we are having so many problems in this community. I was not at last nights meeting, but from what I understand, people got along for the most part, and not all complaints were considered valid by ANY group. Perhaps in this upcoming new year, you will open your eyes to the changes and not stir the pot

7:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Poor OrthoMom - this stream of comments is, from a distance, seemingly worthless and completely off the important subject at hand.

2:52 PM

I am unsure of your meaning. The subject at hand is busing. People are giving there opinions. This is called freedom of speech. Unfortunately they may not share your beliefs, and that is okay, but to say it's worthless, is way off and unhelpful. It is unfortunate that you feel this way, part of the reason we are having so many problems in this community. I was not at last nights meeting, but from what I understand, people got along for the most part, and not all complaints were considered valid by ANY group. Perhaps in this upcoming new year, you will open your eyes to the changes and not stir the pot

7:32 PM  
Blogger Goy Guy said...

Anonymous said...

"i would hate to see any kid, with a load of books at any age from any walk of life walk half a mile to school on anything other than a warm sunny day.. goy guy may disagree with this"

That's fine. How about a quarter mile? An eighth of a mile? 500 feet? Some people seem to feel to the corner is too far. It's all a matter of how much you are willing to pay.

Of course those same poor kids can drag up and down Broadway and Central Ave shopping and dragging bags from The Gap and Max and Gino's while drinking a latte and still hoof it a half a mile home without any apparant ill effect.

7:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did anyone check the routes from last year to see if there were all the house stops people are saying were scheduled? Perhaps the drivers were making special arrangements for ($$)or adjustments in their routes for the safety of the children. Wasn't the new transportation director working for the district last year? If a student is eligible for a bus they should get a bus. The community voted for the bus limits-if you don't like them, let's vote for greater limits, reduce the cost of transportation and put the money in the classroom. Until then, fix the problems and move on. I certainly don't want to drive my kids to the middle school and #6, but if that's the will of the community fine-we'll just have parent gridlock at he schools.

10:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

New director started last year, but she came late to the game. The former director already set everything up for last year.

This September's problems are the first attempt for the new one. But it seems very odd that there's such a large amount of complaining taking place. In my former community, we went to a new bus company and had some little problems...but not as bad as I'm hearing in these posts.

12:46 PM  
Anonymous improvingnassau said...

for a detailed synopsis of last nights board meeting you could check out www.improvingnassau.com

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have lived in Inwood for 57 years. I always voted for the school budget even when I wasn't married and didn't have children. I figured when it was my turn to have my children educated in the public school system, I would receive back. I got married and unfortunately had children late in life. I stayed at home for 10 years to be able to walk my children to school and be there to pick them up. I was brought up to believe "do unto others as you would have them do onto you".

9:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jewish history in a nutshell:

You never stop pushing and pushing and pushing until everyone hates you, then you whine about how persecuted you are.

1:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Anon,
thank you for your little History Lesson. Thank you once again for provong the point that I have made time and again on these boards - The whole chirade is nothing more than classic jewish hate perpeptrated by people like you. Why don't you have the guts to sign you name to your cute little one-liner? In fact, why don't you publish you address? Takes a BIG MAN (or woman) to make an anonymous jab on a blog. You must be very proud of yourself.

12:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for your comments. And your name and adress is?

11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You want my address? Why, you plan on burning a cross in my front yard? Better yet, maybe you want to beat me up or terrorize my wife and kids...afterall, you "the jews" we just make people so mad...we have it coming...right?

12:52 AM  
Anonymous Non-Woodmere Resident said...

No matter where you live, you must pay public school taxes. If you wish to send your children to private schools of any kind, you have earned the right to pay for such services. This would include ALL related expenses. Don't live high-on-the-hog unless you can really afford to. Don't expect others to pave the way for you.

6:53 AM  
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[b]Áàçû ôîðóìîâ ( Bases of forums ) :[/b]


Ïðîäàþ ñûðûå áàçû ôîðóìîâ äëÿ ðàáîòû õðóìåðîì èëè äðóãèìè àâòîñàáìèòòåðàìè.
Áàçû âñåãäà íîâûå, áåç äóáëåé.

( I sell crude bases of forums for job xrumer or others autosubmitter.
Bases always new, without doubles. )



Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 1 - 100.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 120 ðóá. = 4 $

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Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 4 - 400.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 480 ðóá. = 16 $

Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 5 - 500.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 600 ðóá. = 20 $

Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 6 - 600.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 720 ðóá. = 24 $

Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 7 - 700.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 840 ðóá. = 28 $

Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 8 - 800.000 øòóê ( pieces ) =960 ðóá. = 32 $

Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 9 - 900.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 1080 ðóá. = 36 $

Öåíà áàçû ( Price of base ) 10 - 1000.000 øòóê ( pieces ) = 1200 ðóá. = 40 $


Ïîñëå îïëàòû ( After payment ) :

Ïèøèòå ñêîëüêî, êóäà è çà ÷òî îïëàòèëè, êóäà âûñëàòü èëè ïèøèòå íà E-mail: warscde@gmail.com

( Write how much, where and for what have paid where to send or write on E-mail: warscde@gmail.com )



Ïîäðîáíîñòè ( Details ) :


ICQ: 358-111-706
QIP: 358-111-706@qip.ru


Èëè ( Or ) :

E-mail: warscde@gmail.com

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