Hate Crime Craziness
This story is just unbelievably distressing:
What's even sicker are the following comments from the totally disgraceful Dov Hikind defending these kids:
I guess we now know. When an elected official that purports to be a leader and a role model for a community talks in such a reprehensible manner himself, how can we expect such an attitude not to filter down to our youth? When an adult they are supposed to hold in high regard teaches them that every person of a certain ethnic group is a terrorist, what do you expect?
And then Hikind goes on to add insult to injury by defending the same youths.
I am horrified by this whole miserable story.
(hat tip)
UPDATE: The NY Daily News reports on the story.
Five Jewish teens were arrested on hate crime charges Sunday for assaulting a Pakistani-American man, which they called a “terrorist,” police and Kings County prosecutors alleged this week.Sick. Truly, truly sick.
...Officials said that the assailants, who range in age from 15 to 17, jumped 24-year-old Amber Shahid as he tried to enjoy an ice cream cone outside of a Dunkin’ Donuts at 1524 Avenue M in Midwood at 8:15 p.m. on October 29.
Prosecutors allege that 17-year-old Yossi Friedman of the [address redacted], 16-year-olds Shulomi Bitton of the (address redacted] and Benjamin Wasserman of the [address redacted], along with two unnamed 15-year-olds plus a handful of un-apprehended others approached Shahid and began shouting at him, calling him a “terrorist motherf—ker.”
“You f—ked our country,” they allegedly screamed. “Why are you here?”
The suspects allegedly yelled, “Go back to your country” before lunging at the 24-year-old, striking him repeatedly in the face and about the body, officials said.
According to a criminal complaint filed with the Kings County District Attorney’s office, one of the assailants, who was armed with a pair of brass knuckles, broke the victim’s nose as he pelted him with punches.
The teens are also charged with holding the victim’s arms behind his back, leaving him defenseless against their continued assault.
What's even sicker are the following comments from the totally disgraceful Dov Hikind defending these kids:
While the hate crime charges stand, Assemblyman Dov Hikind, who represents Borough Park and Midwood, said that he believes that the incident wasn’t fueled by bias.Ugh. Where do I start. It's one thing for Hikind to plead with his constituents not to judge until all of the facts come out. But that's not really what he's doing here. He's pleading that these kids "didn't start the fight". He's explaining to us that the fact that these common street thugs beat a man up with brass knuckles, holding his arms behind him so as to leave him defenseless, was somehow justified because the victim shoved them. I guess that's just what we should expect from someone I consider a complete racist. Anyone remember these comments, made last year by Hikind in support of racial profiling?
“Based on what I heard, this shouldn’t be classified as a hate crime,” he said. “Some of the kids involved in this were the ones that called the police. When was the last time you had a bias incident when those who were there stuck around and waited for police to come?”
Hikind heard that Shahid started the fight, by pushing one of the teenagers out of the doorway.
“He [Shahid] said, ‘Get the f—k out of the doorway,’ when the teen wasn’t in the doorway,” said Hikind. “Then the teen said something like, ‘Why don’t you talk to me like a mensch.’”
Shaid sparked the fight by shoving the teen a second time, Hikind alleged.
"The individuals involved look basically like this," Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn) said yesterday, brandishing a printout of the FBI's most wanted terrorists - all with Arabic names, most with facial hair, some wearing turbans.
"Why should a policeman have to think twice before examining people of a particular group?" Hikind asked. "They all look a certain way. It's all very nice to be politically correct here, but we're talking about terrorism."
I guess we now know. When an elected official that purports to be a leader and a role model for a community talks in such a reprehensible manner himself, how can we expect such an attitude not to filter down to our youth? When an adult they are supposed to hold in high regard teaches them that every person of a certain ethnic group is a terrorist, what do you expect?
And then Hikind goes on to add insult to injury by defending the same youths.
I am horrified by this whole miserable story.
(hat tip)
UPDATE: The NY Daily News reports on the story.
posted by orthomom at 10:47 PM
49 Comments:
Dov Hikind makes me ashamed to be from Boropark
I am not going to fall into the whole L"H trap again on this thread as we did on the GG issue so I am not going to comment on DH, but I will say that it is a sad fact when our children have resorted to violence in any instance. I am not saying that one does not have to stick up for oneself, but if there were a group of kids, and I outsider started up, I am positive that the group could have subdued him until the authorities arrived without beating him up. They could have even called Shomrim and turned him over to them and have them call the Police.
There is no excuse for this kind of violence no matter "who" started the fight. Having said that, it is also pretty sad that "anti semitism" is so blatant that this young goy would be so full of hatred he would not even think twice but to start up with a whole group of Jews, not fearing that he would get hurt. He was so blinded by his hatred!
I'll bet anyone a crisp new twenty that if the situation played out differently and it was the Pakastani youths who were the assailants Dov would be calling it a "hate crime"
Wow, Yeshiva kids in an assault, a violent one too. Hard to believe. But, in any case, I hope there's a trial and we'll hear what really happened. The news story is a bit ambiguous, no?
Sfunny how they report it "Hikind heard"....
I agree with the sentiment that if it was the other way around he'd be all over it like a jewish sharpton
agree with the sentiment that if it was the other way around he'd be all over it like a jewish sharpton
Agreed. His hipocrisy makes me ill.
Hikind is the worst racist himself. what does he car, he probably views muslims as target practice.
"Yeshiva kids "
Who said they were yeshiva kids?? Just because they have religious names?? Children out on the street on a Sunday night are not Yeshiva Kids.
Who said they were yeshiva kids?? Just because they have religious names?? Children out on the street on a Sunday night are not Yeshiva Kids
they could be Yeshiva kids-of course in the 5T area look at Central Avenue ANY NIGHT and see Yeshiova kids and those whose biggest crime in life was that they were not blessed with superior intellect-or very wealthy parents-then the Yeshivas spit them out are not interested and nothing is left for them in life.
"At risk" programs are part of the problem-you make a kid at risk just because he is not highly skilled in reading. Yesterday, an article that suicide rates are 4 times greater among those who are poor readers,In Ortho communities much worse problem-the community doesn't accept poor readers and what do you think they are going to struggle in a Beis medrash at 10 PM? work on a Seimens Science Project?-but hang out.
In Ortho communities much worse problem-the community doesn't accept poor readers and what do you think they are going to struggle in a Beis medrash at 10 PM? work on a Seimens Science Project?-but hang out.
where are the parents
Anonymous said...
In Ortho communities much worse problem-the community doesn't accept poor readers and what do you think they are going to struggle in a Beis medrash at 10 PM? work on a Seimens Science Project?-but hang out.
where are the parents
Nice politically correct baloney-we are not talking about 10 year olds-we are talking about kids who are old enough to drive-God forbid-old enough to enlist in the Marines-old enough in general to be tried as adults.
ON a different response-a professor of social work with great "yichus" once told me the following:
"there has never been in the history of mankind a teenager who listens to their parents-it is part of the independence stage between 12-20"
Look around Central Ave at night and I'll wager the common denominator was overwhelmingly poor reading skills in 2nd grade-the Yeshivas will keep them maybe to HS -but then they can't do the work well and get spit out.
I hope you never have to get more educated on the problem.
Interesting on all accounts, as a conservative jew, I am amazed at all the of the above, when children gang up and attack an individual who is alone, it does not matter what race,color,or religion he is, it is unacceptable. Our children have learned to hate and blame. To talk about if they went to yeshiva or not, please, what different does it make, they commited a crime and should be punished. Raising a child is more luck these days then anything else. I know great parents whose kids are misguided. Five towns, this is a lesson to us, what happens when we continue to fight. They should be tried as adults, and thrown in jail. 5-1, they are thugs and bullies.....
How nice to defend a group of thugs. If I read correctly, the muslim leader, said, these boys have been in trouble before, I guess most don't carry brass knuckles. Who cares if they can read or not, no child left behind, is not keeping them out of jail, how sad they ruined their lives, and how sad for their parents.
Orthomom- I am very dissapointed with the way you are reading into this story. When i heard this story on the radio yesterday something did not sound kosher about it. Because of this I tried to read every article out there on the issue and I have drawn the following conclusions about this case.
1- The "victim" is the only one who has been interviewed and everything he said is taken as being the truth. The media has jumped all over his statements and assuming he is innocent. There has not been one interview with any of these 5 kids or their lawyer stating their story of what happened.
2- In this list of charges from the police I did not see anything about brass knuckles. All I saw was the accusations about them in the complaint filed by the police. If their were brass knuckles the police would have taken them as evidence and let people know they have them.
3- When all of this started the kids called 911 stating they were being attacked. Why is this 911 tape being ignored?
4- All of the boys stayed their until the police came and were taken by the police without a fight or protest. If they were guilty they would have run away and not have called 911.
5- The Pakistani guy claims to have been held down. I have a question, If someone is trying to beat you up do you let them or do you hold them down and restrain them until the police come and these boys did?
I am not saying that these boys are innocent but both sides of the story need to be heard and these questions need to be answered. Once again I want to say that you are way off on this orthomom and you shouldn't jump to any conclusions. You might not like Dov Hikind but he might have more info on this story about what really happened. Until there is a public statement with more clarity as to what really happened you cannot and should not jump to conclusions especially when it is dealing with Frum yidden.
if the roles were reversed all of you dan lkaf zchusniks would not hesitate to condemn the indian perpetrators to heck
"are" yeshiva kids "were" yeshiva kids
the fact that they may have been dropouts are irrelevant.
they are ours, and we are responsible
since we are responsible for them we should not lock them up in jail and throw away the keys.
Kudos to all the askonim who got them out of jail and posted bond as quickly as possible.
This is one reason I am opposed to hate crime legislation. If the facts are as stated, a bunch of young adults systematically beat a single man up with little or no provocation. Why should it matter what each of their races, religions, and ethnicities was? If the account is true, the assailants should be punished regardless of whether they were after money, sick thrills, or were racially motivated.
"Dov Hikind makes me ashamed to be from Boropark"
I can think of at least 35 reasons one would be ashamed to be from Boro Park. Dov Hikind is like #14. If he's your one and only then you're in pretty good shape (or you're blind).
This whole story sucks. When I was younger (I grew up in Flatbush), Jewish kids used to get the snot beaten out of them on a regular basis. And it wasn't because of their political views. I've been called a Dirty Jew, Jew Bastard, Christ Killer, F-ing Jew (without the hyphen), and other delightful nicknames more times than I care to remember.
We were beaten up, our yarmulkes were knocked off or stolen, we were egged on Halloween, and were surrounded by kids bigger and more violent than we would ever be. I had rocks thrown at me, my bike stolen, and I know that when Jewish kids played baseball at Friends Field or on 18th Ave. they needed to be vigilant or their bats, gloves, and balls would be stolen (or worse) ... I can go on and on and on.
This is why the JDL existed and were not always nearly as vilified as revisionist history makes them out to be. Also, the Chassidim in williamsburg used to kick the living shit out of people that started up with Jews .... there is a very apocryphal but somehow very believable story of a black or Puerto Rican kid who was stuffed into a garbage can and tossed off a BQE walkway onto the highway... and I’m sure he deserved it.
This was life in Brooklyn in the 70s and 80s. Maybe things haven’t changed much.
Except in 2006 everyone is ready to assign a hair trigger "bias attack" classification. The Pakistani kid did not deserve to have his nose broken. Jewish teens should not be beating up anyone. But these "yeshiva kids" were not yeshiva kids. They were rough and tough kids who frequent Ave. M because of the "Our Place" teen "hangout" on East 16th street. To say these kids are already a bit temperamental is putting it mildly.
Do they deserve arrest and punishment? If they did what the cops say what they did then possibly. If these kids acting with malicious intent then they should pay the price. But if there’s more to the story, why should we be knee-jerk apologists?
And is this a hate crime as it is classified in the general term? A hate crime or bias attack is when the assailant(s) go searching for a minority (e.g. Muslim, Gay, Black, Hispanic, Jew, etc.), with the implied intent to find one, harass, and assault them.
But Hikind, who generally makes me ill, cannot be faulted for rejecting to this "too-quick" hate-crime classification.
First there is little doubt in my mind that the Pakistani kid was completely innocent. Second, whenever a black person is beaten up, the Bloomberg administration calls for restraint and asks everyone to cool off and wait to see if indeed a hate crime has occurred.
No such call was made in this case, so it stinks of some type of political move....such as grasping the unusual opportunity to make it seem as if EVERY ethnic group is capable of committing bias attacks thereby minimizing the victim status of any specific minority.
Last, yes, frum kids also beat each other up, too. We used to fight with Chassidim and Chassidic kids used to beat up Misnagdim (this is before everyone became misnagdishe). In my mind, the frummer kids were always crazier than the less frum. But that in no way is indicative of blanket intent to commit a hate crime, or guilt against these kids.
Bottom line: as much as I hate to say it, Hikind is not wrong and these kids deserve the courtesy and due process any other assailant, regardless of ethnicity, is given.
Kerry Apologizes to Troops, Families for 'My Poorly Stated Joke'
this is....
"
Bottom line: as much as I hate to say it, Hikind is not wrong and these kids deserve the courtesy and due process any other assailant, regardless of ethnicity, is given."
As he would if a yeshiva boy was beaten by pakistanis?
all i can say is we're reaping what we're sowing and the administration responsable for curiculum in our schools has to go. As long as they allow kids to even have a doubt in their minds that this is ok, we're in need of some serious teshuvah, cheshbonos, and maybe even a massive shake up if necessary.
"Bottom line: as much as I hate to say it, Hikind is not wrong and these kids deserve the courtesy and due process any other assailant, regardless of ethnicity, is given."
As he would if a yeshiva boy was beaten by pakistanis?"
TTC -- as a Jewish kid from Brooklyn (prehistoric Brokklyn of the 70s and 80s) I'd say, "Kill the F-er." But as a responsible, realistic, and humanistic husband and father I believe if a gang of Pakistania kid beat up a Jewish kid, someone should at least make the effort to get to the bottom of things before making sweeping pronouncements of the assailant's motives. I imagine Dov Hikind would feel the same; not that he'd say it, mind you.
Great post. Hikinds quotes prove that hes the worst kind of bigot. he obviously is not trying to get the Pakistani or Muslim vote.
he obviously is not trying to get the Pakistani or Muslim vote.
Well, considering he has had no opponent in several election cycles, the fact that there is a sizable Pakistani/ Muslim constituency in his district probably won't hurt him very much.
Dov has probably not passed one piece of legislature in his years in office. he must be one of the worlds most innefective legislators. Except that Dov is not in office to legislate. He's just there to deliver money, and deliver money he does. As a mater of fact, the frum community that delivers that money eats this kind of racist anti-Muslim rhetoric up.
the only place Dov delivers money is to his own pocket (and his family, of course, who are employed ONLY because they have the last name Hikind).
Orthomom, I agreed with you until you complained about Hikind's remark about racial profiling. I agree with him on that point. Young Arab men are the ones who commit terrorist acts, so it only makes sense that they should be looked at more carefully, rather than little old ladies.
This entire action is deplorable, from the assault on the victim to the ministrations of the "Dov". Just because they were Boro-Park boys, just because they came from orthodox families, doesn't make them any less prone to crazy violent behavior. I feel very sorry and very hurt for their actions, my feelings of regret go out to the victim and his family. We are a hospitable city, filed with caring and devoted people of all races and religons, living together and rasing families regardless of if we are Jews or Muslims, or Catholic or Budhists, or worshipping the Sun. We cannot blame 1/2 the worlds population for the criminal acts of a violent sub group within one faiths many arms.
It's unfortunate that their interaction wasn't on a more humanist level, but they "THE DOV" included have sunk to their lowest level and victimized a helpless person, in this way they have become the Terrorists. May G-D help them all.
MItch Schwadron
"Dov has probably not passed one piece of legislature in his years in office. he must be one of the worlds most innefective legislators. "
Wrong. Hikind has legislation passed about a decade ago to legalize mace in NY. Do your homework (he hasn't done much else, though)
It is not possible for a yid to act in the way they are accused of acting without being provoked.
"not possible"?? Whether or not that is what hapened here, nothing is impossible, certainly not this.
I am 100% sure without a shadow of a doubt the Paki did something to warrent attention.
The "Paki"? You think you can find another term that doesn't display your bigotry so clearly?
Did they go overboard? Maybe. Was this unprovoked? NO WAY!
The fact that they went "overboard" is quite enough to warrant my reaction - whether you feel they were provoked or not. And for the record, the teens claimed that the victim "shoved them twice". That's not provocation to be beat up to the point of needing reconstructive surgery.
where are the parents
Which parents? The Rebbish parents, the wealthy parents, the poor parents, the professional parents?
Wake up it can happen IN ANY FAMILY!!! Kids can "get hurt" and have issues that take them down this path whether the issues start in the home or in the school. Stop being judgmental and start being a little compassionate and realistic.
If you don't understand the problem, serious look for information or try really listening or talking to these kids who happen to be "really great and sweet kids", you would know this if you ever bothered to stop for a few minutes and just talk to them. All you have to do is "listen to understand".
What does this violent attack have to do with kids hanging out on Central avenue? I don't see the connection because there isn't any.
I have seen many "frumies" who want to show the "goyim" how tough they can be as well. It is a matter of each individual person and of course how they are when they get together. Moreso, what they hear discussed at home and at the Yeshiva.
Adults have to be careful what they say around kids, because they pickup your opinions and atitudes. I agree that it would have been enough to subdue the "goy" if he had started up with them, unitil the cops came. Even if he hit one of them. There were enough of them to hold him down.
I love "our" children, but I con't condone any type of violence. This kid, stupid as he was to start up when he was outnumbered, did not deserve to get beaten up by the hands of our children. It wasn't their place, no one appointed them judge and jury.
These kids sound like the would make fine citizen soldiers in the IDF.
/Go Apartheid!
Maybe these kids can shoot some housewives for Israel.
Move along you terrorist!
Re : troubled youths this morning was the Madraigos breakfast a good cause-and I am not Rabbi Dov Silver but he deserves support.
One of the speakers-a now married man who was helped by Rabbi Dov Silver as a teenager spoke about how since the Yeshivas aren't concerned-and now is not the time to speak about it-someone from the audience said why not- thank God we have Rabbi Silver. There is no doubt that Rabbi Silver does wonders for some who are pushed out by the Yeshivot/Day Schools who don't want anybody who is not a good student academically. At times the Yeshivas deny it but "Methinks the Yeshivot doth protest too much". Be that as it may if the local Rabbanan would be as interested in the situation- not just quote at a fundraising breakfast the Hatam Sofer who stated better teach a kid torah than run a Gemach-but rather get as upset at this situation as they are that GG dared take them on by not grovelling before them-maybe we would have a much better kehilla.
anonymous, you sound like you;re in between doses for ritalim. slow down and make your point because o one here has a clue what you're trying to say.
Anonymous said...
anonymous, you sound like you;re in between doses for ritalim. slow down and make your point because o one here has a clue what you're trying to say.
8:44 PM
I assume you are talking about my
1207 PM post. BTW I went to school before incompetent teachers tried to hide their boring classes by schtupping amphetamines aka ritalin down the students mouths.
I will recopy my 1207 post and explain any sentence that I believe may be unclear.
Re : troubled youths this morning was the Madraigos breakfast
a statement of fact
a good cause
my opinion
-and I am not Rabbi Dov Silver
he head of Madraigos. It is a fact that I am not him.
but he deserves support.
my opinion
One of the speakers-a now married man who was helped by Rabbi Dov Silver as a teenager
CaN'T BE PROVED BUT THE SPEAKER STATED THAT AND i ACCEPTED HIS WORD AS FACT
spoke about how since the Yeshivas aren't concerned
I believe that is a fact-others may disagree-so arguendo only an opinion
-and now is not the time to speak about it
the speaker stated that-for starter a breakfast raising money for Madraigos so understand the speakers position
-someone from the audience said why not-
a statement of fact
thank God we have Rabbi Silver.
an opinion
There is no doubt that Rabbi Silver does wonders for some who are pushed out
Since some is in the sentence I'll claim it is a statement of fact-others may say opinion.
by the Yeshivot/Day Schools who don't want anybody who is not a good student academically.
In general that is a sad fact.
At times the Yeshivas deny it
a statement of fact
but "Methinks the Yeshivot doth protest too much".
my opinion
Be that as it may if the local Rabbanan would be as interested in the situation
I believe that staement is true
- not just quote at a fundraising breakfast the Hatam Sofer who stated better teach a kid torah than run a Gemach-
what a leading local Rav stated at the breakfast
but rather get as upset at this situation as they are that GG dared take them on by not grovelling before them
I bleieve that statement is true
-maybe we would have a much better kehilla.
An opinion
12:07 PM
time Orthomom's blog gave to the original posting.
People gotta know you can't trust the press. They not only didn't tell the whole story but they told it entirely wrong. I'm not saying I know exactly what happened but I do know what didn't happen. They did not initiate the fight.
You are correct that they didnt start it. Its all based on the Pakastani guys words, because the boys were correctly told to remain quiet. Its a good thing that Hikind and others are there to help support these boys, and they do deserve our support as none of the charges are proven, and as any Jew who has read the New York Times etc. can tell you, Dont believe everything you read in the papers. Aside from the logic, that Amber was too beaten up to call the cops, and why did all these kids wait around for the cops, I believe that we will eventualy learn the true story, and the boys may only be guilty of overdoing it on the self-defense.
I'm not from NY- and haven't heard abt. this whole fight. I am familiar with these type of kids though (the OurPlace "Thugs"- I say it as a term of endearment I work with these kids and love them).
"They should be locked up" "Where are their parents", "Yeshiva kids" blah blah blah... is any of this helping them?- What they need is anger management, some kind of productive help. It makes no difference who started it. They also need teachers who are not racist and( lets not kid ourselves most of Brooklyn rebbes/ morahs/teachers are).
Im a Pakistani from the Midwood area, went to midwood Highschool infact.
As far as I know, there has never been a case like this in the area. The Jews and Pakistanis live to together peacefully for the most part. While I have an obvious bias in support of Ambers story, I can understand that it may have been blown out of proportion.
I can guess how this might have played out but I think I will leave investigation to the police. Ultimately, the two communities have to live together; so a little bit of mutual cooperation and understanding might go a long way.
What does this mean?
Dear Oprah,
I am writing to you about discrimination which has been expressed by the selective enforcement of city ordinances against me with respect to my rental business in Southern Indiana once city officials discovered that I am a Jewish person.
More about me: I was named to the "30 under 30" list by my alma mater and did my PhD work at Princeton Univ. under John Nash. I am a applied mathematician/ entrepreneur in my day job.
In the years since I completed my undergraduate work at IU in 1998, I proceeded to buy a small number of rental properties in Bloomington, Indiana, which I have successfully run as a side business for a number of years.
However, about 2-3 years ago, the normal flow of my side rental business ran into some serious roadblocks.
It started when two housing inspectors made a number of explicit anti-semitic statements to me and to a Jewish tenant at one of my rentals.
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And then the Legal Department went to work on me, filing at least five (5) lawsuits against me for alleged ordinance violations, and at the same time, the Legal Department Chief's wife, over at Student Legal Services, encouraged my erstwhile tenants to sue me for recovery of their security deposits, in spite of their breaches. I was soon dealing with about ten lawsuits at once.
So in April 2007, I filed a lawsuit against the City of Bloomington for violating my right to equal protection of the law, and a number of other civil rights violations. For reasons unbeknownst to me, I have become of the despotism of city government in small town Indiana. My attorneys have recently discovered that my case is not unique. Another Jewish landlord also has a case pending in federal court against the City, regarding the improper withholding of a building permit based upon the impermissible consideration that the prospective buyer of the commercial property in question was a Jewish investor from New York.
My life has been turned upside down by the systematic abuse of ordinances and
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