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Sunday, November 05, 2006

Jerusalem Riots

What to even say about this:
Hundreds of haredim took to the streets of Jerusalem Saturday night, setting fire to everything flammable, uprooting a traffic light and assaulting both policemen and civilians. One policeman was lightly wounded and substantial damage was caused to public and police property. Six haredi youths were arrested.

...The Shabat Square was yet again the staging area for Saturday's riots as Israel's ultra orthodox community takes its protest of the upcoming pride parade up a notch. Haredim set fire to large garbage containers and bus stops, uprooted a traffic light, threw firecrackers and rocks at inter-city traffic along routes one and four, damaged several police cars by stretched metal cables across streets and pelting them with rocks.

Jerusalem police arrested four haredi youths after they overturned a garbage container onto the street near the Shabat Square, forcing policemen out of their squad car to be met with a hail of rocks. Two additional haredi youths were arrested in Herzl boulevard for setting bus stops on fire.
Sounds like things are way out of control. I think peaceful protests against the Gay Pride parade would have been absolutely in order here. Hafganot are a way of life in a country with political and religious divisions that run as deep as they do Israel. That said, we could always hope for relatively peaceful and non-violent protests in Israel - I guess those days are over.
The worst part about all of the violence is that it might actually work:
The police are expected to announce their decision regarding the future of the parade on Sunday. Jerusalem police chief, Maj. Gen. Ilan Franco, stated that further deliberations are expected Sunday morning and afternoon. Police commissioner Moshe Karadi will weigh in on the matter. A senior source in the Jerusalem police spoke with Ynet and divulged that if the situation remains as it is, the police will recommend the parade, in its current venue, be cancelled and moved to an enclosed space.
Are we supposed to now believe that the ends - the cancellation of the parade, as reprehensible as it may have been to the Charedi community - justify the means of arson, violence, and destruction of property, not to mention the risk to life and limb to both protesters and police? Unless I hear a convincing denouncement of this dangerous and violent behavior by Charedi leadership, I expect most in the Charedi community will think that this type of behavior is acceptable as long as they get what they want. To what end?

This is also upsetting:
"The Nazis are coming, run!" was the catchphrase of the night, with haredi youths warning each other in Yiddish of advancing police officers trying to restore order to central Jerusalem.

...On Friday posters were hung in a number of synagogues around the capital with harsh invectives aimed at Franco. One slogan charged that he was the grandson of notorious SS officer in Treblinka Franz Stangl. Police said they viewed the offenses with severity and opened an investigation into the matter. Maj. Gen. Franco addressed the issue: "I see it as worthy only of my contempt. We won't be intimidated, we will do our job with integrity devoid of corruption. Speaking of things one Jew does not do to his fellow Jew, then this is one of the things."
Sick. Is it suddenly OK for Charedi Jews to invoke the Nazis when showing contempt for their fellow Jew? More so than when another group does it? Are we somehow supposed to think that it is justified - because the police are doing their job in the face of an extremely violent and dangerous situation? And I can't wait to hear the charges of police brutality from the Charedi community. They want to avoid a firm, decisive, and potentially injurious reaction from local law enforcement? It's simple. Don't commit arson, throw stones, and wreck police cars.

UPDATE: The Yeshiva World tells us that the Badatz has called for a halt in protests until the Police make a decision on whether the parade is to go on.


Blogger and so it shall be... said...

Here's my response to some cry baby post on Vos Iz Neias about some poor poor protesters who spent shabbos in the clink. There seems to be some support for these thugs, to which I say:

Still Wonderin' said...
"I can't believe people are criticizing the protesters, people in every faith 'n culture are protesting these "un-straight" freaks, & we the G-D fearing people shouldn't be allowed to? "

People ctiticize the protesters because they have no credibility. They throw rocks at passing cars on shabbos fire bomb bus shelters, throw bleach on unsuspecting girls, and set fire to clothing stores that offend their arbitrary sensibilities, and launch a barrage of violence at the arrest of a child abuser.

Now they're protesting a gay march, but in doing so advocate murder and violent protest. They sound like arabs, act like arabs, and are now talking like arabs.

So, a bunch of thugs got arrested. Too bad. Perhaps they heard of the boy who cried wolf? Well now there's a new stroy about the Chareidi who cried Assur!

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sounds like the resients of far crackaway and parts of west lawrence. (what is west lawrence anyway?? either you live in nassau county or you live in queens? sorry, you cant have the best of both worlds.)

was the vaad involved??? did the rabbonim say we cant associate we these type of people for cantractual reasons stated in the torah???

1:07 PM  
Blogger Looking Forward said...

it's the times of the moshiach i'm sure. Those who have no fear of g-d are exposing themselves for what they are.

and the wheat will be seperated from the chaff.

1:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These people should be punished to the MAX.
Forced to get JOBS.
And be banned from schnorring in the White Shul.

1:58 PM  
Blogger Alexis said...

I have heard people justifying this and claiming that the haredim never get anything done without violence. One even said that without it they wouldn't even exist! I was really disgusted. I wasn't hugely in favour of the parade but these tactics have made me absolutely for it.

2:44 PM  
Blogger Daniel Greenfield said...

Firstly you're reposting a story from Ynet and treating every word of it as absolute truth without questioning it

Now I realize it's trendy in your circles to sneer at Charedim and there's probably some sort of points system involved but you might actually want to read about the commonplace police brutality in Israel directed at protesters, whether those protesters are Charedim, Settlers, Russians, etc

Using Nazis as a term of invective is inappropriate but so is brutalizing protesters. Your phony outrage about the protesters violence is rendered all the more hypocritical when you label police brutality under the 'category' of "A firm, decisive, and potentially injurious reaction" and "Doing Their Job"

If we're going to trade in euphemisms then let's just call the actions of the protesters, 'Firm, Decisive and Doing Their Job.'

This way we can be nicely Orwellian together when you repost what amounts to police press releases.

4:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

schnorring at the white??? i thought they schnor at more than rub shul, and rub the bench in multiple places.

i cant stand the thought of the parade, but the wrong people are protesting, and making a bigger chillul hashem.

5:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like this is turning into yet another blog that is mostly anti-chareidi, and fully doesnt understand the chareidi mentality.

Alexis, i think you hit it on the head. The Chareidim feel that they can not get ANYTHING from the goverment without fighting for it. While I dont know if this is true, it sure seems true from the inside.

Mr Knish for sure got it right when he reminds us that ynet is known to be an anti chareidi webisite. Gimme a break. Those "articles" are more like left-wing editorials - as in, keep the facts out of the story. We can make up as many as we need.

Lastly, I must have missed something. Can you elaborate for me on the connection between Chareidi protesting a "to'evah parade" and asking for tzeddakah and not working? I fail to see it. Are you just looking for a way to say lashon hara? I hope not. I think LH is a far worse sin that "not working"

5:54 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

The AG has overruled the police and ordered them to permit some kind of parade:


To cancel a peaceful public event because of the threat of mob violence is not what democracies are about.

10:40 PM  
Blogger pisgam said...

There you go again "Ortholiberal".
Eretz Yisroel was given exclusively to those who uphold our Torah - the Charedim. Homos
or gays must be stoned to death according to our Torah as well.
It is a pleasure to see charedim pursuing activism to retake the land from the perverts.

12:56 AM  
Blogger Alexis said...

Ynet may not be pro-chareidi but I have heard very similar stories from people in Jerusalem.

Fact is the chareidim have gotten far more from the government through backroom politics than they ever have through letting the thugs have their way. What's more important to chareidi survival--funding for chinuch atzmai or closing Bar Ilan?

1:55 AM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...


Not taking a side here at all, I'd like to add the following observations.

There are many Jews in Israel who would like to daven on Har Habayit. Some want to daven, some want to have a demonstration on Har Habayit (like Gershon Solomon's "Temple Mount Faithful" group that every year on Tisha B'Av asks for a permit to ascend Har Habayit.)

Every single time a permit is legally requestsed -- the police turn it down due to the reason: "Threats of violence from Arabs, who would riot on Har Habayit. To this day, Jews are not allowed to daven at their holiest site, and there are famous pictures of policemen dragging people off of Har Habayit with their hands clamped over the mounths of people who opened a book of tehillim to daven quietly.

The chareidim have learned this lesson well.

What (mostly) characterized the first Palestinian intifada, was rock throwing. The same way the Palestinians wore down Israel's resistance due to constant rock throwing, the Chareidim know that with enough belief in their cause, they too will wear Israel down.

As Olmert said last year before the elections, "Israel is tired...tired of winning wars against the Palestinians."

When the government is "tired" of confrontation over legitamate rights; be they freedom of worship on Har Habayit, or freedom of travelling on the roads without getting hit by rocks -- people on all sides understand this and use it to their advantage.

Strategically, the chareidim do not want to the Gay Parade to take place. Tactically, the threat of violence is a tried and true method in Israel of getting you way.

Now, before anyone jumps all over this, I would like to add the following last minute clarifications;

1. The above comments do NOT take a side in whether Jews are halachically permitted to ascend to Har Habayit.

2. The above comments do not condone the actions of the Chareidim -- I'm just stating facts.

3. As to my personal opinion about the Gay Parade, Im not posting it (well, not yet anyway).

3:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, I live in J-m, and yes there were horrible riots. And no, Israel was not "given" to Charedim. They just happened to be living here when the state was re-established. They are welcome to keep living here. They are not welcome to terrorize innocent people in the name of halacha. Anyone who thinks thusly is a terrorist him/herself and most certainly NOT a "Torah-true Jew".

3:57 AM  
Blogger westbankmama said...

Did you know that there was a petition signed against having this parade in Jerusalem by 300,000 people? No, never heard that? You know why - because 25 Charedim throwing rocks gets a lot more press than 300,000 people peacefully protesting. They have learned their lessons well - and are using the tactics that work (see Jameel's comment above).

6:13 AM  
Blogger and so it shall be... said...

Honestly, I just wish the 300,000 would also sign a petiiton denouncing the 25 animals.

The world (and especially their fellow Jews) NEED to know that Chareidim are revulsed by these troublemakers.

7:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Ethiopians are rioting too. Can't say I blame them though.

/Racism is an ugly thing

1:13 PM  
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