NYJW on GG - Take 3
The NYJW has a new story on the GG affair, and there is some actual news in the article. The article speaks of the prospect of a deal between the Vaad and the store owners:
In addition, for those who are still echoing Mr. Bolender's statement that this mess all stems from a "personality conflict" between the Vaad and himself, I'm not sure that there is any contradiction here between what the Vaad is saying and what Mr Bolender is saying. Mr. Bolender (or his spokesman) asserts that there was a personality conflict, and that the store ownership was resentful of the Vaad's growing stringencies. If that is the case, how in the world is that not relevant to the Vaad being able to provide proper supervision? If a store owner is admittedly resentful of the Vaad's efforts to provide what they feel is a necessary standard of supervision, how is that not a concern of Kashrut?
All of that being the case, I would like to see this matter resolved - as I'm sure do most members of the community. I hope that this discussion of a deal is a harbinger to the actual settling of the issue to the satisfaction of all involved parties. There's no denying that Gourmet Glatt is a lovely store, and the loss of supervision and subsequent drop in local patronage is a pity both for the store's owners as well as the store's customers.
The Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Far Rockaway has told Gourmet Glatt Emporium that it would resume supervision of the Cedarhurst, L.I., kosher supermarket if the owners brought in a partner it could approve.The Vaad's lawyer seems to have read the statement by the store's spokesman in last week's Jewish Press the same way I did. And I will reiterate, if the Vaad feels (as it clearly seems they do) that they are unable to work together with the present owner of the store to assure proper Kashrut supervision, I am willing to take the word of such a large group of learned men at face value.
“The only way the Vaad will physically supervise the premises wherein Gourmet Glatt is located is if it will have a partner it will trust, [thereby] ensuring kashrut to the Five Towns community,” said Franklyn Snitow, the Vaad’s lawyer.
...The Vaad pulled its kosher supervisors from the store Oct. 27, saying the owners had violated their contract by hiring another kosher supervisor without the Vaad’s approval.
Mark Bolender, a partner in the store, said at the time that the owners acted after the Vaad threatened to pull their supervisors on Feb. 1 unless they sold their store. He attributed the threat to a “personality” conflict.
But Snitow suggested otherwise when asked about an article last week that quoted a family representative as complaining about the “Vaad’s growing stringencies” that Bolender considered unnecessary.
“Statements made last week by and on behalf of Gourmet Glatt concerning their unwillingness to adhere to the rules of the Vaad provide ample justification for the Vaad’s decision that it could no longer ensure the integrity of the kashrut process at Gourmet Glatt,” Snitow said. Bolender declined comment.
In addition, for those who are still echoing Mr. Bolender's statement that this mess all stems from a "personality conflict" between the Vaad and himself, I'm not sure that there is any contradiction here between what the Vaad is saying and what Mr Bolender is saying. Mr. Bolender (or his spokesman) asserts that there was a personality conflict, and that the store ownership was resentful of the Vaad's growing stringencies. If that is the case, how in the world is that not relevant to the Vaad being able to provide proper supervision? If a store owner is admittedly resentful of the Vaad's efforts to provide what they feel is a necessary standard of supervision, how is that not a concern of Kashrut?
All of that being the case, I would like to see this matter resolved - as I'm sure do most members of the community. I hope that this discussion of a deal is a harbinger to the actual settling of the issue to the satisfaction of all involved parties. There's no denying that Gourmet Glatt is a lovely store, and the loss of supervision and subsequent drop in local patronage is a pity both for the store's owners as well as the store's customers.
posted by orthomom at 12:11 PM
164 Comments:
Sounds like someone has an agenda ...
"I would like to see this matter resolved - as I'm sure do most members of the community."
I am counting down the days till this is resolved I am miserable shopping in Supersol and Brachs.
Maybe GG didn't sell enough Tofutti for Frank, he is the director of the ocmpany.
Do you really believe that there will be a difference in the integrity of the kasharus the day after the 5Towns Vaad is back on? Is peer pressure that strong? Is Rabbi Lexus really the man for the job?
FROM the sounds of it Rabbi Lexus will be chunging along with a 1965 volkswagen if I were the Bolenders
Does he really drive a lexus? What year/model?
I actually came onto the blog today to see if the "ban" on GG was still on because there was a lot of traffic in and out of the store at one point today. And the people were quite diverse-looking. I guess those were just individuals who decided not to listen to the community rabbis' recommendation of not shopping there.
I was also @ GG this afternoon for the sales I also ran into Rabbi Kravitz who is related to my Mispacha. He is just wonderful and assured the top kashruth along with a letter he showed me from Rabbi Weiner of kosher overseers of Brooklyn. Rabbi Weiner who has no horse in this race gave quite a impressive kashruth report of GG!
i understand but aren't we supposed to follow our community rabbanim? I think that to shop there shows disrespect for our own community. while i feel bad for the Bolenders, i think that we should stick behind our rabbanim. otherwise, even when this whole thing is resolved we will not have a cohesive community.
how is that not a concern of Kashrut
Well, if the increasing stringencies are not kashrus related, then perhaps GG has a point.
I've heard from store owners who are increasingly upset with the Vaad for what they perceive as regulations that are completely unrelated to Kashrut (eg: mandating what waitresses wear; what hours a store can open and what business they can do on 9 B'Av).
If that sort of stringency is what caused the friction (and I am not saying it did, because I don't know) then perhaps GG has a right to take issue with a Vaad that is increasingly overstepping its mandate as a kashrus certification.
... and I'm so glad we're back to this routine
I ran into GG on the way to work today and there were lines running from the cashiers all the way to the back of the store. By the time I was done shopping, they had set up barriers outside to ward off additional customers. Then the fire department came because the maximum occupancy was exceeded.
... all a credit to Rabbi Kravitz's charm
What happens to Rabbi Kravitz when they cut a deal?
back to mexico? miami? (I can't say I'm not envious)
(eg: mandating what waitresses wear; what hours a store can open and what business they can do on 9 B'Av).
I think a lot of these issues are ones that the Vaad CAN AND SHOULD make decisions on. not all of them, but definitely some. If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open.
(eg: mandating what waitresses wear; what hours a store can open and what business they can do on 9 B'Av).
I think a lot of these issues are ones that the Vaad CAN AND SHOULD make decisions on. not all of them, but definitely some. If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open.
If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open
I vehemently disagree. This is a Vaad HaKashrus, not a Vaad HaHalacha. If a store owner violates some halachah that does nothing to affect the food served in the establishment, then the Vaad has no purview.
The Vaad is not the appointed shomrim on all things religious in our community. They are the shomrim of kashrus standards. Anything else is overreaching.
Kashrus is kashrus, it doens't apply to appearance of hours. Appearance has to do with tznius, and hours only have to do with Shabbos and yom tov. You can't tell a business when they can be open or not, that is outside the realm of kashrus.
considering there are no waitresses in GG and the vaad allows grocery stores to open in the morning of 9 b'av, this hypothetical argument is silly. if mr bolender meant non-kashrus related stringencies, he has had ample ooportunity to say so. he has made many statements so far. whats another? if my rav says mr bolender was a problem, thats enough for me.
There seems to be a steady stream of commentaters who claim that the VAAD's authority should be limited to what are "strictly kasruth" issues and not other matter of halacha. I guess strip clubs should now be able to get a hasgacha from the Vaad.
I would like anyone trying to carve out a complete distinction between kashruth and other halachik issues to provide a logical reason why, under their theory, this would not be a potential result (and don't resort to just saying it is a silly idea -- it may well be, but it would also be the logical endpoint of such arguments).
Observer:
If there existed a strip club that only served certifiably kosher food and wasn't open on shabbos (a potential kashrus issue because of bishul), then that establishment certainly could apply for Hashgacha for its food.
At the same time, the Vaad could certainly deny it. Perhaps because it couldn't have a mashgiach on site, as there would be no mashgiach willing to go (or perhaps there would?). Perhaps the Vaad, simply as a matter of principal would decide not to grant a hashgacha. There is no rule that the Vaad must grant a hashgacha.
If, however, a patron of the club approached the Vaad and asked the simple question, "I have heard that the food there is kosher, is this true?" the Vaad should have no ability to say no.
This is not the case with stores on Central Avenue. A store with an already certified kashrus cannot be browbeaten into forcing the waitresses to wear skirts.
Might I point out that these tzinus and store hours issues have nothing to do with GG, and it's evident that the vaad's concerns with GG were related to kashrus and trust (as that relates to kashrus).
There seems to be a steady stream of commentaters who claim that the VAAD's authority should be limited to what are "strictly kasruth" issues and not other matter of halacha. I guess strip clubs should now be able to get a hasgacha from the Vaad.
Agreed-the Rabbanim of course would be perfectly in their rights to prohibit entrance into such a club for other reasons-but not on Kashrut grounds. The Vaad of Kashrut should not deal with that-the same Rabbis could in a different letterhead.
I've posted this before, but i just want to mention again. . . .
Cho-sen was not allowed (by the Vaad) to serve fortune cookies during the Aseret Yemei Teshuvah. Does anyone else feel that this is overstepping their job of Kashrut supervision? Not to mention, it's pretty ridiculous.
Are they pas yisroel?
going back a little who is Rabbi Lexus??
I think they're referring to rabbi eisen, though I don't believe he really drives a lexus
Anonymous said...
Kashrus is kashrus, it doens't apply to appearance of hours. Appearance has to do with tznius, and hours only have to do with Shabbos and yom tov. You can't tell a business when they can be open or not, that is outside the realm of kashrus.
5:20 PM
can the VAAD dictate how one sells their chometz? What about the zman for opening after shabbos?
Cho-sen was not allowed (by the Vaad) to serve fortune cookies during the Aseret Yemei Teshuvah. Does anyone else feel that this is overstepping their job of Kashrut supervision? Not to mention, it's pretty ridiculous.
8:51 PM
If true as ED Koch would say RIDICULOUS!!!!
can the VAAD dictate how one sells their chometz?
BTW-probably according to the GRA the way the Vaad stores sells their chametz would not be a proper sale.
What about the zman for opening after shabbos?
Why is that a Kashrut issue-as long as stuff not made on Shabbos. Why ca't a goy open the store on GRA time.
I hear a deal is close to happening. All the cashiers of GG must wear long shirts and close every inch of bare skin to complete agreement.Also Men only cashiers for men will me required.
And only torah tapes are to be played in the store
yes he drives lexus ls430...he bought it from wheels to lease...2006
Im not sure if he will be able to make his payments..as he will not getting paid off by GG anymore
question of the day??/night?? How come vaad does not have a list of standards and practices that would be applied to all stores? I came across the vaad of queens website-it seems to be much more straight-shooting than our vaad-check out queensvaad.org/kashrus VERY INTERESTING! They are also listed as a not-for-profit organization by New York State. How come our Vaad has not been forthcoming with a financial accounting? Just curious-as I noticed that I am paying an add'tl fee for Vaad on my White Shul bill???
So the vaad took issue with the tznius and store hours at GG?
Might I point out that these tzinus and store hours issues have nothing to do with GG, and it's evident that the vaad's concerns with GG were related to kashrus and trust (as that relates to kashrus).
No you can't point that out because it isn't true!!
then I supposed it's your word against the rabbis' word, and you're obviously somewhat of a nogea b'davar, considering all the one-sided Bolender propaganda you've been disseminating here.
So why all the hate for Rabbi Eisen? I'm sensing a lot of venom.
He is the cause of all these problems.Rabbi Eisen is not a DAM YASAHR .Ish chadek tamin aya bedorrotav
I realize that my hashgacha for the strip club hypothetical is not realistic -- that was the point -- it was just a poor imitation of a Swiftian Modest Proposal.
No Blind Faith: I appreciate your "feeling sorry" for me. That is very kind of you.
Noyam: Your post indicates that you agree that the Vaad, as a matter of "policy," could refrain to giving a hashgacha to such an establishment. I agree. It would seem to validate my point that the Vaad is not somehow limited to issues that "only" concern kashruth. As to whether if asked, the Vaad could say the food was not kosher, they could certainly said it is not under a reliable hasgacha since no reliable certifying authority would give a hasgacha to such an establishment (for reasons going beyond issues related solely to kashruth).
I don't know exactly why the Vaad pulled their hasgacha, I would love to have more information about it. But, as Orthomom points out (as I understand her), you have to have some faith in the rabaaim of the community. If not, either choose a new community or choose new rabaaim. By the same token, if there is any Rav in the community advocate continuing to shop at GG, I would certainly expect such a Rav's congregants or talmidim to do so. I am simply not aware of any such rabinic pronouncement by a single Rav in the community. I think the rabinate's silence in that regard speaks volumes.
While the Bolenders screwed the pooch by revealing the real reason for the disagreement, the real problem here is the Orthodox Jews of the community, who, sheeplike, have continued to follow the Vaad which has degenerated into a mess of chumras.
If the average Roman Catholic can remain observant and pious while quietly disregarding the nonsensical papal teachings about birth control, surely intelligent Orthodox Jews can remain Orthodox while shopping wherever they damn well please, the hell with the Vaad.
100% on target
I think we can all agree now that the real problem with this community is a minority of people who are comfortable discarding the central orthodox tenet of looking to our elders and our rabbinic leadership for guidance.
When you justify your actions by comparing orthodox observance to roman catholocism, your position is no longer tenable from an orthodox perspective.
We are not an island unto ourselves and we are not sheep. It is plausible to learn from others, regardless of their religion and it is possible to reason that the Rabbis are sheep and that they shepherd is faulty.
We are not an island unto ourselves and we are not sheep. It is plausible to learn from others, regardless of their religion and it is possible to reason that the Rabbis are sheep and that they shepherd is faulty.
I assume you are not of the orthodox persuasion.
It's admirable to question, but it's arrogant to insist you know better.
I just spoke to Rabbi Lichtman of Far Rockaway ,he endorses Gourmet Glatt and will put it in writing to the 5 towns jewish times.
Is this the Rabbi Lichtman who was the Rav of Skokie ten years ago?
Yes, it is the same Rabbi Lichtman of Skokie who now resides in Far Rockaway
Is he going to include the basis for his endorsement? What does he have to do with kashrus at GG?
YES ,Rabbi Lichtman endorses the Kashruth @ Gourmet Glatt.
that's not much of a basis
Anon 8:26
He is the cause of all these problems.Rabbi Eisen is not a DAM YASAHR .Ish chadek tamin aya bedorrotav
Wow, that's a pretty big claim.
You should know upfront that I've had a run-in with the man, but I thought amybe it was just me.
How is he the cause? Just by being there?
What does Rabbi Lichtman have to do with GG?
When you justify your actions by comparing orthodox observance to roman catholocism, your position is no longer tenable from an orthodox perspective.
I'm not Orthodox, and given this sorry spectacle, I would never particularly want to be of that persuasion.
What does Rabbi Lichtman have to do with GG?
Nothing, he is just a frum Rabbi in the community who is disgusted by what is going on.
"It gives us food for thought here, we know why Snitow would hold this up, he gains billable hours."
Let's see 400 billable hours at the rate of 0$ per hour is, mmmmm, let me get a calculator. No, wait, even better let me get a dictionary to look up "pro bono".
Or maybe Eisen has a contract that says he has the final say. And Frank Snitow is enforcing RYE's contract/.
MM is Reisman's shikyingel.
RYE will never have the final say!!!! If that is what it says in his contract, then he can tear it up. The community has the final say and we will prove it to him. If he doesn't come to the table and comply with the wishes of the RABBONIM, then we WILL boycott the VAAD!!!
Several Points.
1- The Vaad hired RYE, not the other way around. So, are you saying the Vaad made a mistake? Please don't tell me that he was not interviewed and approved by at least a simple majority of the Rabbonim.
2 - How do you expect your enforcer to enforce, if you take away his powers. Sounds like the US army rules of engagement in Iraq & Afghanistan.
3- No Blind faith - you seem to have a problem with people like Steve Savitsky or MM. Both of these men are true KAHAL people. They do things for the community, without fanfare, without gain of any sort. I would venture to say they spend more time helping people and institutions then they spend earning a living !
They do what they do BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN OF ACTION, NOT WORDS. When the Eiruv needed upgrading, they got involved. WHEN THE KASHRUS needed UPGRADING, THEY GOT INVOLVED. Oh, by the way, did I mention, Steve Savitsky doesn't wear a hat in Shul, and he wears a KIPA SRUGA - GASP !!!
So it's not THE BLACK HATs IMPOSING THEIR WILL.
4- While Rabbi Lichtman may be a talmid chacham, IS HE A MEMBER OF THE VAAD?. How about I walk into your office and tell you how to run your business?
Bottom line is - 90% of the posts or posters here have a bone to pick with someone or something. Whether it's a particular Rav, or even the fact that the rabbonim are trying to raise your spiritual levels. You cannot pick or choose what you want to follow. Your Rov IS NOT a menu in a Chinese restaurant. You cannot say "I'll take one from column A and one from column B. Kashrut, no thanks, tzedakah ok, mixed swimming, well in Florida yes, but here no. G-d forbid, when someone is physically ill, you run to your Rov and BEG him to daven for them, but if he tells you to do something you don't like, well then you say "MY Rov is wrong, I'm not listening because..."
LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.
If you are a member of a shul, you are aligning yourself with all it and it's Rov stand for. I find it hard to belive anyone was forced to join a shul. YOU chose to daven there, and follow your Rav. So Follow him ! Yes, I know you are better educated then he is (after all, we're doctors, lawyers. etc. and he is only a Rav) but he has S'yata D'shamaya.
That's enough for me !!
We are not an island unto ourselves and we are not sheep. It is plausible to learn from others, regardless of their religion and it is possible to reason that the Rabbis are sheep and that they shepherd is faulty.
"I assume you are not of the orthodox persuasion."
Sorry, actually I do consider myself Orthodox, though you may not. Perhaps what distinguishes us is that I recognize that there are Rabbis that steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on. Rabbis are people too. All people are capable of error. No person can be held in such high esteem that they are thought to be infallible. By the same token there are people who are not Rabbis who do not steal, have no vices and are pure in thought and action. I would look up to this person regardless of his religion before blindly following a corrupt Rabbi.
Applause, as a matter of fact....STANDING OVATION!!
Sorry, actually I do consider myself Orthodox, though you may not. Perhaps what distinguishes us is that I recognize that there are Rabbis that steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on. Rabbis are people too. All people are capable of error. No person can be held in such high esteem that they are thought to be infallible. By the same token there are people who are not Rabbis who do not steal, have no vices and are pure in thought and action. I would look up to this person regardless of his religion before blindly following a corrupt Rabbi.
So you're operating under the assumption that most of the rabbis in the commmunity "steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on."
I am shocked that some contributors to this blog have better than 100% accurate information and are way ahead of the rest of us. I keep reading just to know what to expect tomorrow. Penned by someone also in the know but every time I read this blog before my day starts or ends, I find out I am still a little behind.
Why doesn't Bolender start his own blog to take surveys and further his business?
What do you have against Bolender?
What if RYE took an issue to Benji and his story? What then? What if he started picking on him and the store he manages? Would you be up in arms about that? Or is it just Bolender?
What do you have against Bolender?
I don't think anyone here has anything against Bolender, but the way commenters like "no blind faith" have been denigrating our rabbis with the Bolender perspective, it doesn't reflect very well on Bolender.
Question to "no blind faith":
Do you ever feel like the right wing "brooklyn" type people are moving into the neighborhood and eroding the quality of life that previously existed here?
There has never been "quality of life" here, if you define it by the number of intolerant people living here. In the 30's the Wasps were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area. In the 80's the Conservative Jews were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area. Today all the modern Orthodox are complaining about all the Jews moving into the area. Do you see a a pattern?
I see a group of frustrated community members longing for the days when black hats and sheitels were a rarity on Central Ave., and repulsed by the prospect of any "more religious" influence being thrust upon their daily lifestyles.
Isn't that what this conflict is all about?
to no blind faith... i have religiously read yur posts... you seem to be one of the few bright lights in the five towns darkest hours... may your light shine forever.
see a growing number of Yeshivas who are looking not only for robots, like some Yeshivas of 20 years ago tried to produce, but today they are looking for "PERFECTION OR METZUYANIM" and the rest can fall by the wayside. Never mind what the Torah said, "to teach a child al pi darko". If a child is not the smartest, the brightest, or the richest, throw them out on the street.
Literally true-more important than if one place more or less sells goodies.
"The my way or the highway approach"expanded from 1 yeshiva with no feeder school-to another Yeshiva where the approach had been chanoch lnaor al pi darcho until they hired the heads of that smaller school to be heads of that large HS with roots back in predecessor institutions more than 50 years. When one has people claiming Rosh Yeshiva title-probably because they at one time were more capable of fixing mens soles than souls-but are proud of how they can cull out the less successful and not a word out of any local Rav something is terribly wrong in the state of 5T Jewish affairs.
In the 80's the Conservative Jews were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area
the Far Rock 5T community has been around a long time. For starters Shaaray over 90 years, the White Schul over 80 years, Beth Shalom over 50 years.
It may not be good PR for those who claim this area was a midbar before certain mosdao were established-but htere have been Shomer Shabbos people who went to shiurim their whold lives and lived to 90 and grew up in this area.
This is the sentence just before the one you quoted. So, what's your point?
"In the 30's the Wasps were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area."
Anon 9:45, otherwise known as "Ear to the wall".
It's so easy to blame others. A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.
Anon 9:45, otherwise known as "Ear to the wall".
It's so easy to blame others. A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.
A typical apologetic from a Yeshiva or parent of very good students. Basic facts-entering Junior High parents and children assured that one can stay in that school system unti HS -as long as behave-and the previous years all have behaved. Previous Exec. Dirc-who died on job-assured parents that we are a N-12 school and take responsibility.
Parents and children-of all abilities continue in school. Just before last Pesach time-joint cooperative agreement was signed between 2 different HS's which at a minimum meant that the bigger one took one the 2 top ones of the smaller one as "RY" and Principal. Parents sson after get told by some of carryover administration that new top people are looking to cull weaker students out. Encouraged parents to look elsewhere-some took hint-others were told just before school started to leave and others who politically they did not want to take that route-they had ex Rebbe of student tell them for your good leave-they will just try and get you anyway. Clear change from previous educational director of N-12 who got reassigned only to HS. Midstream change against kids and parents.
As far as effective parenting goes-al dan chavercha ad shetagiya limkomo. Adam nivra yichidi baolam-same techniques that work for 150 IQ and kids winning Westinghouses etc do not work for our average students.
BTW-a major change in school policy. The predecessor administration would release kids form some classes for counselling etc-the new higher standard administration said no one can be released on school time. The previous adminitration would exempt some of the weaker kids from certain Hebrew subjects going back to beginning of JHS for tutoring etc. The new administration stated everyone must take all courses-even if they are incapable of it. BTW-even if they might have been capable with hard work if they always took them-once they were excused in JHS and HS from those subjects in upper HS they certainly were not capable of doing those subjects. Attitude of new administration-I don't care-we have a school to run with standards. Naturally as Marvin Schick has written about for years when kids are asked to leave or encouraged BTW wo parents even being told that the school isgoing to do that-what do you expect from kids whose life for over a decade has revolved around a certain bunch of friends and environment.
Friends 1029 AM for kids old enough to drive and even those younger are the main influences for better or worse on "normal kids". Between 14-20 essentially parents have very little influence as a very frum Prof. of soc. work told me : "there has never been in the history of mankind a normal teenager who listens to their parents" BTW it is part of the independence aspect of growing up.
By 20's most if not all have more respect from their children.
BTW-I see at minyan other parents whose kids have been driven away. Read "Off the Derech" 1029. It might save peoples SOULS.
No Blind Faith said...
A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.
I'll have you know that some of the biggest most well known Rabbonim in the best communities have the same problems with their kids as any "common family". Are you implying that the don't practice "effective parenting"?
11:17 AM
No Blind Faith said...
A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.
I'll have you know that some of the biggest most well known Rabbonim in the best communities have the same problems with their kids as any "common family". Are you implying that the don't practice "effective parenting"?
11:17 AM
And to extend it 1029 Avraham Avinu didn't practice effective parenting, Ishmael-Yitachack-Esau, Yaacov-selling Joseph to slavery. Moshe Rabeinu-his kids are not famous- Aaron--2 sons kiolled for bringing in strange fire-David Hamelech-read the recent haftarah about how his kids acted on succession.
It is very easy to blame parents-but when a Yeshiva has a POLICY of encouraging the weaker to leave that is a problem.
Ear to the Wall, at the next board meeting state your views publicly, instead of bashing rabonim behind the veil of anonymity.
11:58 anon,
Why is it if you don't have an intelligent answer, you claim that everyone is bashing Rabbonim. No one is bashing Rabbonim we are simply stating the sad facts and reminding everyone not to judge. Why are you always blaming the parents. If you are not in the "Parsha" as we say, you are uneducated as to what is going on, so for someone standing outside the window looking in, just observe and listen and don't comment if you are not well informed, because you are misguided and your comments are hurtful and dangerous.
Anonymous said...
11:58 anon,
Why is it if you don't have an intelligent answer, you claim that everyone is bashing Rabbonim. No one is bashing Rabbonim we are simply stating the sad facts and reminding everyone not to judge. Why are you always blaming the parents. If you are not in the "Parsha" as we say, you are uneducated as to what is going on, so for someone standing outside the window looking in, just observe and listen and don't comment if you are not well informed, because you are misguided and your comments are hurtful and dangerous.
2:52 PM
Thanks for your comments.
1139 AM and 945 AM anon
Clear change from previous educational director of N-12 who got reassigned only to HS.
I should have written
Clear change from previous educational director of N-12 who got reassigned only to K-8.
Doesn't change the facts-just the personalities involved. But frankly anyone who knows what I am referring to and knows the names knows their viewpoints-there is no secret.
I do find it a good sign that each time I go shopping at GG there are more and more people shopping. In schul today many have decided to go and show there support. As a local business owner I too have been subjected to VAAD gangster like activities. They complained about a workers outfit, why are the Rabbis looking at her and not just the kitchen. I do remember what they did to GLATT YACHT! If we complain will they try to put me out of business?
Kosher supervision is a business and a dirty business at that. AS soon as everyone sees that then we can talk about fixing it.
It's time for stores to band together for self-supervision
as a store owner that would be a great thing
what a wonderful idea
If the Vaad truly wants to bring peace back to the community, they would temporarily lift the ban of GG and work towards a viable resolution of this nightmarish situation. Rabbi Pinchas ( who was the Vaad-placed Mishgiach ) is still at GG. Give a temporary hechser for 60 days to allow for a better understanding of what occurred so that this situation NEVER happens again! I am sure all parties involved would benefit. The Vaad Rabbonim could regain the respect of the community; GG could regain their parnusha; RYE would have to prove ALL ALLEGATIONS,etc. Then the people can decide where to shop.
Doesn't change the facts-just the personalities involved. But frankly anyone who knows what I am referring to and knows the names knows their viewpoints-there is no secret.
3:03 PM
So why not mention names about theschool situation-HAFTR hired Rabbi Friedman who is proud of 2 things 1) he makes demonstrations a big part of his curriculum-see RAMBAM the first decade plus and HAFTR the last couple of months;
2) that he forces out weaker kids-he has done that routinely at RAMBAM and now the HAFTR Board evidently hired him to follow the same "magic" and let the weaker kids disappear-to where who cares.
I have been shooping in GG the entire time because as a person in the food business the business of kosher supervision makes me sick. I agree with the person who wrote that it is a business and a very dirty one at best.
What is sad is that people are going against Rabbi's that have been respected for years. I am sad that my Rabbi has ignored phone calls on the subject and has ignored e mmails on the subject. The damage the vaad has done cuts very deep!
isn't Bolender an outsider doing business in the 5T just like RYE is?
What is sad is that this has been a community of achdus and continuity
It really never has been one-the community has been split beneath the surface-this was the flag that showed how the community has been split.
Women either covered their hair or not, men either wore black hats or kipot srugot, but it didn't seem to matter to anyone, because Jews were Jews and they were all davening, learning, and doing chessed and mitzvos. They were all ovdei Hashem and doing it b'simcha just the way Hashem wanted it.
But certainly in the past decade or so-people have known where to move-how many women who don't cover their hair have moved in the past decade west of
lawrence Ave. Compare to the numbers east of Woodmere Ave.
People in the more modern shuls have been looked down upon here for decades. How many Darchei parents kids hang around with HAFTR kids. Very few.
Dump Rye. send him back to Nostrand Ave. If he tried this with ShopSmart they would have broken his bones
Whether you choose to send your kids to HAFTR or Darchei, you are still welcome to daven in any shul you wish to. No one would ask you to leave, you are welcome anywhere
You are welcome to pay dues in any schul-but for better or worse-in a younger age-teenagers parents are irrlevant in friends-it is not common for parents to ensure that their kids don't get too friendly with those who go to the "wrong" school. It is not simply when they are in different neighborhoods those within a few houses of each other won't be welcome-fact of life.
you still get the same "gut shabbos" on the street.
Unfortunately to strangers not that often-I have had opportunities-obligations-other the years to essentially walk round trip on Shabbos through the 5T's and I would make a point of wishing everyone a good shabbos-most do not answer-significant minority do-most don't.
isn't Bolender an outsider doing business in the 5T just like RYE is?
Actually no, his family has been running this store in different spots in the neighborhood way before many of us has moved here
Does that make Bolender a member of the community? Neither Bolender nor RYE live in our community, though they both profit off it. Maybe we should send them both packing.
Does that make Bolender a member of the community? Neither Bolender nor RYE live in our community, though they both profit off it. Maybe we should send them both packing.
you have to be kidding!! now will the vaad add another requirement to their list...all shopkeepers must live in town!! and the bolenders helped build this community over the past 20 plus years... i think that makes them community members, dont you think?? they have supported our shuls, yeshivas etc with their donations and their beautiful store adds to our town. how can you compare the two???
a nod in return
if you add the nods to the Good shabosses -it is most people-I was referring to answer in kind. Still a minority don't answer.
maybe no blind faith there is a difference if you walk if your family and if I walk solo-if I walk with my wife-interesting difference perhaps
Actually it looks like you are operating under the assumtion that "THE BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE". (That's a quote from "no blind faith" above)
I think the point about the Bolenders not living in the area was intended to counter the criticism of RYE having invaded our area from Brooklyn and imposed on our community without even living here. That was a silly point to make about RYE just as much as it's silly it is to insinuate that the Bolenders should have any less standing in our community because they're not from the area.
The comment in regard to RYE being out of our area was to emphasize the point that he is not willing to listen to our community RABBONIM (who happen to be his bosses) in regard to settling this matter, due to the strain, division and chilul Hashem that it has perpertrated in OUR COMMUNITY.
Considering the fact that the rabbonim all agreed on the actions that were taken and they all singed RYE's letter, there doesn't seem to be much discord between them.
"Considering the fact that the rabbonim all agreed on the actions that were taken and they all singed RYE's letter, there doesn't seem to be much discord between them."
Word is rabbi eisen hypnotized all the rabbis at the vaad meeting and when they came to their senses, they had all signed the letter (and it was too late to reverse it)
The RABBONIM have come up with an AGREEMENT solution which the Bolenders have accepted, although it was a bitter pill to swallow. RYE has rejected the RABBONIM's decision, and wants to more than double the consequence than the RABBONIM have decided on. Therefore he is not a Peace Partner in the negotiations, he has thumbed his nose at OUR RABBONIM and he is instigated the continuation of more chilul Hashem and more divisiveness in the community.
Just because this is your version of the events, does not mean anyone else accepts it as true and correct.
This dialogue is ridiculous. It's obvious that the individual commenting here as "no blind faith" is squarely in the pro-Bolender camp and has serious misgivings about rabbi eisen. It's also pretty obvious that "no blind faith" is far from an objective bystander in this conflict, and it's hard to believe that anyone who spends so much time writing comments here (at least 1 out of every 4 posts here) and trying to build a case against the vaad does not have a financial stake in this conflict.
So I can't imagine anyone really appreciates hearing your anti-vaad and anti-rabbi and anti-eisen spin at every juncture, considering where it's coming from. Either separate yourself from the conflict or stop using this plog as your propaganda mill. It's extremely disengenuous and it's discurteous to those regulars who appreciate the objective dialogue usually found here.
No Blind Faith, I would have to agree with the above commenter. You started off here professing to be an objective observer, simply questioning the status quo as you had "no blind faith". But it is quite clear from your recent comments that you have an axe to grind with RYE and the Vaad that is far from objective. Your diatribes are getting tedious, and violating my rule against extreme anti-Vaad rhetoric. Give it up.
momof4 said...
No Blind Faith, I would have to agree with the above commenter. You started off here professing to be an objective observer, simply questioning the status quo as you had "no blind faith". But it is quite clear from your recent comments that you have an axe to grind with RYE and the Vaad that is far from objective. Your diatribes are getting tedious, and violating my rule against extreme anti-Vaad rhetoric. Give it up.
7:45 AM
dear momof4, so i guess you will no longer allow any individual to post unless they support the vaad's position?? this site is becoming tedious and now offensive to all americans.. i guess you no longer believe in freedom of speech?
Wow, this site is "now offensive to all americans." I guess I must be Khazakastani. That damn Borat!
dear momof4, so i guess you will no longer allow any individual to post unless they support the vaad's position?? this site is becoming tedious and now offensive to all americans.. i guess you no longer believe in freedom of speech?
Yeah, my blog is a regular hotbed of censorship. Must be really hard to read all my comments from behind the iron curtain.
Early December.
Much ado about nothing.
Status quo will return.
I'd say, "no harm no fou(w)l" but there was a great deal of unnecessary harm over some poor little fowl.
Neither side is without blame or shame. And this is why the community SHOULD NOT be aware of every aspect of the Vaad's business. Nothing good can come of it. The press and blogs have done more to divide and incite than Bolender or RYE or the Rabbonim. Since no one knew what was going on everything was speculation and innuendo, which led to rumor and lashon hora. A very sorry spectacle.
But by December 7th, it will all be over. Perhaps we, on that day, should fly our flags at half-mast, to commemorate the death of trust and allegiance.
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
What are we going to blog about?
What happens on December 7?
can somebody tell me what agreement the rabbanim put forward and how RYE responded to it. Thank you
I have not said one unkind or disrespectful word to any RAV in this community on this thread, and again you can go all the way to the top of these posts to double check.
Except that you have about Rav Eisen. Where do you draw the line as to what constitutes a "Rav in our community"? Zip code? If the Vaad supports RYE, then disparaging him is essentially not supoorting the Vaad.
Without saying too much, the agreement stipulates that GG has to sell off a portion of the store for a "determined percentage" and there is also a "consequence" which I am not going to disclose that they have agreed upon for one of the members of the family.
RYE is demanding tht GG sell off more than double the percentage that the RABBONIM asked and agreed upon and that all the money be put on the table "UP FRONT".
Now here is the problem.
1. RYE does not have the right to go over the RABBONIM's heads on this and DEMAND anything of the RABBONIM nor does he have a right NOT to comply with their wishes. To further aggrevate the situation, his demand to more than double their ruling is sheer unadulterated CHUTZPAH. This has given reason and cause for the RABBONIM to review the entire situation from the get go and see if the GG family had a valid complaint to begin with and if RYE was being spiteful and unreasonable all along where they were concerned, as he is currently displaying.
2. The fact that the RABBONIM are showing a clear understanding of the community's need to end this chilul Hashem and this suffering that we all seem to feel is effecting us, and RYE is not choosing to understand the needs of the community, is also an issue that the RABBONIM and the community have to seriously look at to decide if he is the type of person that can be respected in a leadership position for this particular community.
Can anyone explain why RYE is not listening to the RABBONIM?
No blind faith maybe we would believe that the anonymous comments arent all from you if you wouldnt be the only person here who keeps capitalizing the same words again and again.
(VAAD, RYE, RABBONIM)
Maybe you are smarter than me, or you are a private detective, but if I agree with someone I might choose to copy them. And by the way the VAAD is actually listed that way on all their teudot! Do you ever check before entering a store? And NBF wasn't the only one to refer to Eisen as RYE.
But believe what you want, attacking NBF is just an attempt to try to take the heat off the real issue, I still want an answer whether I capitalize it or not. Why is he, HE, rye, RYE, eisen, EISEN, Rabbi Eisen, whatever, why hasn't he complied with the wishes of the Rabbonim, RABBONIM?
Answer that question no matter who you think I am!
who says he hasnt cooperated? your stupid intelligence? are YOU a private investigator? I'll believe this part of the story when I hear it from someone besides a commenter who makes it pretty clear he has a vendetta.
Anyone know who "no blind faith" is?
One of the owners?
One of their attorneys?
"
So I can ask the same question, is it RYE who is knocking me on this blog or his attorney?"
i just saw rye walking out of an inspection at Cho-Sen so it cant be him.
"So I can ask the same question, is it RYE who is knocking me on this blog or his attorney?"
Why would you think rabbi eisen would care to knock you? Why would you think he would give you the time of day any more than the commenters here?
Any why don't you care that you've been asked (by the hostess and others) to temper your biased diatribe? You just keep on thumbing your nose at everyone and carrying on like you're the only one with the facts and everyone else is off base? (Then again, the nose-thumbing habit seems somewhat reminiscent of some of the individuals at the root of these issues.)
There's a letter from every community-minded rabbi in the 5 Towns saying that states their position and the position of the vaad.
Why would anyone in their right mind give credence to your anti-vaad commentary?
I was at GG at 5:30 this evening .there were at most twenty people shopping.the ladies in the store were all of the pants wearing variety.The notion that people are flocking back is pure baloney.
Can someone post the JP article i missed it and i would to see it.
so what's wrong with pants?
Everyone wears them to/from the gym
This is so horrible. People calling each other names. From the FTShul list we see a neighborhood of Ahavas Achim and Ahavas Yisroel, then we come to this blog and we see viciousness and disgust.
Why can't you just stick to the issues and the facts. We know as Jews that if we have a question we can go to the Torah to find an answer. And in this case there are also answers. There are peoople that have answers and like mentioned above, if anyone really cares to know the truth, they should ask questions from the parties involved.
THIS POSTED IN ANOTHER BLOG AREA AND I THOUGHT I'D SHARE IT HERE.
Sadly I fear our Rabbis no not much about the technical side of the food business. Are our Rabbis aware that Rabbi Yosef Eisen [RYE]( I use the term Rabbi because he does have semicha and I have Kavod Hatorah though I do not respect him) also has no knowledge of the technical side of the food business.
Thats right my friends he has never worked in a kitchen as a Mashgiach !!! Ask him I can not tell you if he might have been a waiter in camp at age 15 , but as a Mashgiach he has never been employed in a kitchen or food factory.
So you may ask how did he get to be an administrator for the Orthodox Union , then Kehilla Kashruth, then ( while he is still working for Kehilla Kashruth) The Vaad of the 5 Towns.
This I am attempting to discern and do have a conversation scheduled with someone who knows him from a ways back who promises to enlighten me.
SECOND POST
The scoop continues , Yosef Eisen was a star pupil of Rav Belsky in Torah Vodaath in brooklyn. Rav Belsky was a posek for the O.U. , Wanting to "help" make the O.U. much more O than U or me he brought in the newly minted R Yosef Eisen.
Eisen made himself a name running after vegetables and there bugs, at the expense of the store mashgiachs, instead of as one former restaurant employee put it, " having the owners by slightly better quality produce".
The store mashgiach in this particular restaurant was so busy checking, washing, and even chopping the inferior grade vegetables for salads and the like. That "he wasn't also able to always check that the workers didn't light the fires or ovens and bring in their own non-kosher food when they ran out for a snack or a cigarette"
I AM NOT ANTI-VAAD!!!!! THE VAAD = the RABBONIM in the community who put it together and serve on the board. RYE = an employee the VAAD hired to run it period!
You've been critical of RYE and the VAAD ever since all of the rabbonim in the community unanimously endorsed the vaad's actions. So trying to separate them at this point doesn't really negate what you've previously said.
Either way, it's obvious you have much more of an agenda and a vendetta than anyone else who posts here. I come here for objective dialogue but all I get to read about here is you and a couple of other RYE-haters coming up with any possible reason to discount the vaad's position and bolster Bolender's. I don't know RYE or Bolender and I don't profess to know the minutae of these circumstances, but I find it hard to accept the story the way you sell it, and with all of your propaganda here, it's become tedious scrolling through this comment thread for objective dialogue.
Now everyone shops when you do. But what the heck, go online and watch the cameras if you have nothing better to do.
Where are the cameras online?
it seems to me, as someone who is somewhat privy to all the machinations, that the only one who knows anything about the real situation is being bashed repeatedly. I am not at liberty to disclose anymore insights, however, the community will certainly owe no blind faith an apology when all comes to light.
for being the most disengenuous commenter in history?
Where are the cameras online?
I believe that GG has its website posted right on the front door of the store.
for being the most disengenuous commenter in history?
Maybe for being the most honest, or for at least investigating and looking for answers.
Aren't Jews supposed to ask questions? Isn't that how we were brought up to ask questions and LOOK for answers?
I believe that GG has its website posted right on the front door of the store.
Is this another "no blind faith" fabrication?
What's the website?
apparently it's a closely kept secret
So the website with the cameras is still as secret?
So the website with the cameras is still as secret?
11:35 AM
No, go to the store and you will see it posted on the door. If I go to the store I will check it out for you myself. Is that OK? I thought you were an adult.
There's nothing posted about a website. Is this all a joke?
No, they had the same feed that was running into the VAAD office hooked up to a website, it was posted on the door of the store. I don't know what happened to it, but they had also mentioned it in the Jewish Star article.
The word around town is that RYE gave a 5:00 deadline to accept his proposal. I wonder how the Rabbonim feel about that.
what Proposal is this??
I understand that he'll only certify the store if they sell it to him for $1
and he's demanded exclusive rights to the "store-cam" which may or may not even exist
Laugh all you want and make all the fun you want. The truth will eventually come out.
RYE published a sefer of sorts on kashering when he worked for the orthodox union. I was told by a few current orthodox union employees that in this sefer which basically is a koshering guide. RYE says when you cover the open flames of a gas range that is burning at full heat , so that you will contain the heat and kosher the stovetop, that YOU SHOULD PUT THE SHINY SIDE OF THE FOIL DOWN!!
Any scientists out there care to comment? Anyone have a copy of the sefer they can scan and post?
Love to see this one. Written by a guy who himself never was a kitchen/food mashgiach of any kind before he started for the orthodox union.
How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. Te mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?
How about the mashgiach who covered all the surfaces of my granite counter tops but left all MY sinks uncovered so that the goyim could throw fleishigs into my milchig or pareve sinks. What kind of Mashgiach is that?
I told him I didn't trust him in my kitchen!!!!
Where's the website with the cameras?
I don't know call the store.
There's no website - it's just one of the options the store was considering in response to the vaad's games.
Everyone should be anti-vaad. This story just shows how much of a mafia it has become. Its all about dollars and cents. I would not be suprised if it comes out that the Vaad will only approve someone who gives them a kickback. I grew up in the 5 Towns and I am embarrased by what it has become.
Anonymous said...
"Everyone should be anti-vaad. This story just shows how much of a mafia it has become. Its all about dollars and cents. I would not be suprised if it comes out that the Vaad will only approve someone who gives them a kickback. I grew up in the 5 Towns and I am embarrased by what it has become."
I believe that this is exactly what is going on... I also personally know two of the past mashgiachim that were asked to "say other than the truth" by the Vaad representative. They were summarily fired when they refused.... This is worse than the mafia.. this is Yid against Yid. I, too, am embarrassed by the actions taken by the Vaad. They are being compared to the Mafia with good reason. I think when all is revealed ( soon, I hope) the good people of this community will vote to no longer financially support the Vaad and their actions. Money talks.
Are RYE's days in our beautiful 5t numbered?? I sincerely hope so, he is a cancer on this fine community and needs to be excised.
AFTER ALL I HAVE READ IN THE NEWSPAPERS, BLOGS,AFTER SHABBOS STROLLS, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE VAAD'S OPPOSITION TO ANOTHER HECHSER HAS MORE TO DO WITH POWER THAN WITH KASHRUS. EVEN RABBINIC MONOPOLIES SHOULD NOT EXIST. POWER HAS GONE TO THE "HEADS" OF THE VAAD. TO TRY TO CONTROL ANY BUSINESS ( OTHER THAN KASHRUS ISSUES) IS WAY BEYOND THEIR SCOPE.
Anonymous said...
How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. Te mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?
8:20 PM
Anonymous said...
How about the mashgiach who covered all the surfaces of my granite counter tops but left all MY sinks uncovered so that the goyim could throw fleishigs into my milchig or pareve sinks. What kind of Mashgiach is that?
I told him I didn't trust him in my kitchen!!!!
HOW ABOUT the Mashgiach who worked for Kehilla Kashrus Organization in brooklyn, which did go against the Vaad of flatbush and start selling a second hashgacha that was advertised by the stores.
I heard this story from 2 people, this Mashgiach was threatened and eventually let go on a technicality after catching and reporting a Kehilla certified caterer being Mechalel Shabbat on the party with food to be served at the party.
HOW ABOUT the Mashgiach who worked for Kehilla Kashrus Organization in brooklyn, which did go against the Vaad of flatbush and start selling a second hashgacha that was advertised by the stores.
I heard this story from 2 people, this Mashgiach was threatened and eventually let go on a technicality after catching and reporting a Kehilla certified caterer being Mechalel Shabbat on the party with food to be served at the party.
One of the main figures behind the Kehila Kashruth in Brooklyn, who is a hired (paid) employee of Kehila is none other then our revered RYE. Can you people who checked out the status (990 etc) of our Vaad please check out Kehilla in brooklyn as well?
STILL INTERESTED IN WHETHER THE VAAD IS A NOT FOR PROFIT ORG? HAHAHA... CONTACT THE IRS AND ASK FOR A 5500 REPORT.. I AM TOLD THAT THIS WOULD PROVIDE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER AS TO WHERE ALL OUR DUES MONIES AND STORE FEES ARE GOING.
To Lady with the now treif sink :
I'm sure the Vaad will send the Mashgiach back and for 400.oo will Kasher it for you !
I heard an even more interesting tidbit on a a mashgiach at a hotel weekend of course supervised by our great Vaad. I'm just hesitating to mention it here.
How is RYE an employee of another Kashruth agency when he works for us . Firstly there may be some conflict of interest issues. The Star K which is also a community Vaad would never let an Fuul Time as well as Executive level employee work elsewhere. How do we know he is not steering business towards them. Also he is not easily found in the office or reached by mobile phone. Is this because he is spending some of our time in his community in brooklyn ?
Do any of OUR Rabbis ( admit to)read this blog? I would love an answer or possibly an open townhall style meeting where these issues can be raised.
I know it is convenient for our Rabbis to let RYE handle these things for them. however if they are being mishandled or not handled at all, let us let RYE gracefully resign. We can search the US and Canada for a smart savvy Rabbinic Administrator (with food service experience, which RYE has not). This administrator would need to move to our community and shop and educate his children here. Do you not think this is a finer scenario?
Would any Rabbi care to respond so we can discuss this further ?
rye will not resign, gracefully or otherwise. why would he voluntarily leave a $160,000 post of total power? he controls the vaad rabbonim not the other way around.. once again, when the truth comes out..i hope the vaad will even survive the fallout.
Can you actually confirm the amount of 160,000 ?
I had heard it was a paltry 120,000.
By the way any lawyers out there no if we as members of our respective shuls can have a no confidence vote in the officers of the Vaad ? We can dismiss them and get rid of "Big Dough Joe"
Anonymous said...
Rabbi Weiner is a musmach of Chaim Berlin and heads a Brooklyn organization that checks kashrut.
His brother is a rosh yeshiva of Torah and Science in Israel and his uncle was a rosh yeshiva of Chevron yeshiva.
While I know nothing about Rabbi Weiner's credentials, one has to wonder how he or Rabbi Kravitz rationalize endorsing this store's kashrus without having conferred with the Vaad, when they know that there have been kashrus issues raised.
My sense is that their actions are no different than those of many brooklyn kashrus agencies which regularly swoop in to replace certifications that have been removed by other agencies as a result of kashrus violations, without properly investigating the reasons for the removal of the previous certification. Kashrus is a cutthroat business and its unfortunately too common for some rabbis to offer their certification without proper investigation of the issues.
3:12 PM
OH YOU MEAN LIKE WHEN THE STAR K WHICH IS A NATIONAL HASHGACHA LIKE THE KOF-K TOOK OVER THE HASHGACHA OF CAFE K IN BROOKLYN AFTER IT WAS DROPPED BY THE O.K. ALSO A NATIONAL HASHGACHA. ITS NOT BROOKLYN ITS WORLDWIDE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GARBAGE!
OR WHEN THE KOF-K TOOK OVER BLUE RIDGE FARMS FROM THE O.U.
BOTH THESE PLACES HAD KASHRUS VIOLATIONS. YOU ARE RIGHT THEY ARE IN BUSINESS AS IS OUR FEARLESS LEADER YOSEF EISEN.
NOTE TO THE GENTLEMEN WHO POSTED THIS , EVEN ONE OF POOR INTELLECT CAN ASK A SHAILOH IF THE VAAD IS STILL CERTIFYING GG THEN WHAT ""MAJOR"" KASHRUS VIOLATIONS COULD THERE BE THAT NEED DISCUSSING.
SEE MY POINT YOU ARE SOLELY IN RYE'S CAMP , SO IT CLOUDS YOUR JUDGEMENT.
GOOD SHABBOS
Did I mention the owner of Blue Ridge Farms ( A reform jew) pulled a gun out at the Mashgiach. I wonder if that wa sa contract violation ? Does Bolender own a gun? Maybe thats what i'll get him for Chanukah.
RYE published a sefer of sorts on kashering when he worked for the orthodox union. I was told by a few current orthodox union employees that in this sefer which basically is a koshering guide. RYE says when you cover the open flames of a gas range that is burning at full heat , so that you will contain the heat and kosher the stovetop, that YOU SHOULD PUT THE SHINY SIDE OF THE FOIL DOWN!!
This when we are dealing with over a 1000 degrees where the foil melts rather quickly and the minute degree or two of reflection are inconsiquential.
Any scientists out there care to comment? Anyone have a copy of the sefer they can scan and post?
Love to see this one. Written by a guy who himself never was a kitchen/food mashgiach of any kind before he started for the orthodox union.
"sad jew said...
Can you actually confirm the amount of 160,000 ?
I had heard it was a paltry 120,000.
By the way any lawyers out there no if we as members of our respective shuls can have a no confidence vote in the officers of the Vaad ? We can dismiss them and get rid of "Big Dough Joe"
12:17 AM
If the Vaad is a not-for-profit as they claim to be, then we all should be able to get audited annual reports from them. Any IRS agents out there wish to comment???
the 5 towns is going down the drain if you ask me.
I'm still waiting for any Rabbi to make a second announcement.
How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. The mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?
All of the above persons (and the orthomom writer) criticizing the VAAD have no idea what the hell is going on. The jerks running GG stuck the VAAD mashgiach in a corner of the store between to freezers and told him to stare at the wall all day long. The GG
owner(s) are not "mentchen."
The fact of the matter is that the rabbis who make up the VAAD have all agreed about the matter and if GG doesn't like the situation, they can always open up in Brooklyn.
Its interesting to note that ORTHOMOM never writes anything bad about Yeshiva University or its machers. I can unferstand why people in the haredi/Aguda/Yeshiva world are skeptical about (her)bias. I can't recall one article about YU/OU/RCA scandal.
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