Powered by WebAds

Wednesday, November 15, 2006

NYJW on GG - Take 3

The NYJW has a new story on the GG affair, and there is some actual news in the article. The article speaks of the prospect of a deal between the Vaad and the store owners:
The Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Far Rockaway has told Gourmet Glatt Emporium that it would resume supervision of the Cedarhurst, L.I., kosher supermarket if the owners brought in a partner it could approve.

“The only way the Vaad will physically supervise the premises wherein Gourmet Glatt is located is if it will have a partner it will trust, [thereby] ensuring kashrut to the Five Towns community,” said Franklyn Snitow, the Vaad’s lawyer.

...The Vaad pulled its kosher supervisors from the store Oct. 27, saying the owners had violated their contract by hiring another kosher supervisor without the Vaad’s approval.

Mark Bolender, a partner in the store, said at the time that the owners acted after the Vaad threatened to pull their supervisors on Feb. 1 unless they sold their store. He attributed the threat to a “personality” conflict.

But Snitow suggested otherwise when asked about an article last week that quoted a family representative as complaining about the “Vaad’s growing stringencies” that Bolender considered unnecessary.

“Statements made last week by and on behalf of Gourmet Glatt concerning their unwillingness to adhere to the rules of the Vaad provide ample justification for the Vaad’s decision that it could no longer ensure the integrity of the kashrut process at Gourmet Glatt,” Snitow said. Bolender declined comment.
The Vaad's lawyer seems to have read the statement by the store's spokesman in last week's Jewish Press the same way I did. And I will reiterate, if the Vaad feels (as it clearly seems they do) that they are unable to work together with the present owner of the store to assure proper Kashrut supervision, I am willing to take the word of such a large group of learned men at face value.

In addition, for those who are still echoing Mr. Bolender's statement that this mess all stems from a "personality conflict" between the Vaad and himself, I'm not sure that there is any contradiction here between what the Vaad is saying and what Mr Bolender is saying. Mr. Bolender (or his spokesman) asserts that there was a personality conflict, and that the store ownership was resentful of the Vaad's growing stringencies. If that is the case, how in the world is that not relevant to the Vaad being able to provide proper supervision? If a store owner is admittedly resentful of the Vaad's efforts to provide what they feel is a necessary standard of supervision, how is that not a concern of Kashrut?

All of that being the case, I would like to see this matter resolved - as I'm sure do most members of the community. I hope that this discussion of a deal is a harbinger to the actual settling of the issue to the satisfaction of all involved parties. There's no denying that Gourmet Glatt is a lovely store, and the loss of supervision and subsequent drop in local patronage is a pity both for the store's owners as well as the store's customers.

203 Comments:

Blogger No Blind Faith said...

The misunderstanding seems to be in referencing that the Bolenders had a problem with the VAAD and in reality their only problem was with RYE. Unfortunately, he heads the VAAD.

As it stands now, the Bolenders were asked not to speak to any newspapers anymore and that is why they refused to comment.

In addition, the agreement that was worked out with RABBONIM in the community and the Bolenders is only being delayed by RYE and MR. Snitow who continues to bill for every change he makes to the agreement.

At this juncture the Bollenders have been advised to deal only with the RABBONIM and allow the RABBONIM to deal with RYE and his attorney.

As with everything, the truth will eventually come out. The RABBONIM will have the opportunity to finally see how each party in the conflict are conducting themselves in the midst of these final negotiations.

The RABBONIM had requested that no one speak to the NYJW and yet MR. Snitow took it upon himself to give them another interview. That in itself is an interesting development and an unnecessary turn in these developments. After asking to keep things quieted down in this neighborhood and not look for anymore outside negative publicity, speaking to the NYJW, who happens to love showering the orhtodox jewish community with negative publicity, was an affront to the RABBONIM and the entire community.

Furthermore, Mr. Cohen, who is the liason of Rabbi Dovid Feinstein, spoke as a friend and not as an attorney and is trying once again to have RYE agree to meet with Reb Dovid. But RYE is still refusing to do so. If you want to speak about Kovod HaRav, what does that tell you?

1:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like someone has an agenda ...

3:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I would like to see this matter resolved - as I'm sure do most members of the community."

I am counting down the days till this is resolved I am miserable shopping in Supersol and Brachs.

3:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe GG didn't sell enough Tofutti for Frank, he is the director of the ocmpany.

3:31 PM  
Anonymous Sam said...

Do you really believe that there will be a difference in the integrity of the kasharus the day after the 5Towns Vaad is back on? Is peer pressure that strong? Is Rabbi Lexus really the man for the job?

3:53 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

No I don't believe that Rabbi Lexus is the man for the job, because if he would he would comply with what the Rabbonim agreed upon and that is something the Rabbonim have to consider seriously. Who actually runs the VAAD and the community, the Rabbonim of the community or a hired hand?

The VAAD needs to be run the way the Rabbonim of the community wishes it to be run and by the rules and standards that they place upon it. If the employee they hire does not wish to comply with their wishes, then how is that any different than the complaints RYE and the VAAD themselves had in the dispute with GG?

3:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FROM the sounds of it Rabbi Lexus will be chunging along with a 1965 volkswagen if I were the Bolenders

4:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does he really drive a lexus? What year/model?

4:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I actually came onto the blog today to see if the "ban" on GG was still on because there was a lot of traffic in and out of the store at one point today. And the people were quite diverse-looking. I guess those were just individuals who decided not to listen to the community rabbis' recommendation of not shopping there.

4:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was also @ GG this afternoon for the sales I also ran into Rabbi Kravitz who is related to my Mispacha. He is just wonderful and assured the top kashruth along with a letter he showed me from Rabbi Weiner of kosher overseers of Brooklyn. Rabbi Weiner who has no horse in this race gave quite a impressive kashruth report of GG!

4:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i understand but aren't we supposed to follow our community rabbanim? I think that to shop there shows disrespect for our own community. while i feel bad for the Bolenders, i think that we should stick behind our rabbanim. otherwise, even when this whole thing is resolved we will not have a cohesive community.

4:51 PM  
Blogger Noyam said...

how is that not a concern of Kashrut

Well, if the increasing stringencies are not kashrus related, then perhaps GG has a point.

I've heard from store owners who are increasingly upset with the Vaad for what they perceive as regulations that are completely unrelated to Kashrut (eg: mandating what waitresses wear; what hours a store can open and what business they can do on 9 B'Av).

If that sort of stringency is what caused the friction (and I am not saying it did, because I don't know) then perhaps GG has a right to take issue with a Vaad that is increasingly overstepping its mandate as a kashrus certification.

4:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... and I'm so glad we're back to this routine

I ran into GG on the way to work today and there were lines running from the cashiers all the way to the back of the store. By the time I was done shopping, they had set up barriers outside to ward off additional customers. Then the fire department came because the maximum occupancy was exceeded.

... all a credit to Rabbi Kravitz's charm

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What happens to Rabbi Kravitz when they cut a deal?

back to mexico? miami? (I can't say I'm not envious)

4:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(eg: mandating what waitresses wear; what hours a store can open and what business they can do on 9 B'Av).


I think a lot of these issues are ones that the Vaad CAN AND SHOULD make decisions on. not all of them, but definitely some. If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open.

5:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(eg: mandating what waitresses wear; what hours a store can open and what business they can do on 9 B'Av).


I think a lot of these issues are ones that the Vaad CAN AND SHOULD make decisions on. not all of them, but definitely some. If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open.

5:03 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

i understand but aren't we supposed to follow our community rabbanim? I think that to shop there shows disrespect for our own community. while i feel bad for the Bolenders, i think that we should stick behind our rabbanim. otherwise, even when this whole thing is resolved we will not have a cohesive community.

Many of the Rabbonim have already lifted the ban and only asked their Kehillas not to buy meat and chicken.

5:12 PM  
Blogger Noyam said...

If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open

I vehemently disagree. This is a Vaad HaKashrus, not a Vaad HaHalacha. If a store owner violates some halachah that does nothing to affect the food served in the establishment, then the Vaad has no purview.

The Vaad is not the appointed shomrim on all things religious in our community. They are the shomrim of kashrus standards. Anything else is overreaching.

5:13 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I think a lot of these issues are ones that the Vaad CAN AND SHOULD make decisions on. not all of them, but definitely some. If one is not supposed to deal in business and commerce (if possible) until chatsot on 9 B'Av then the Vaad has every right to tell a food establishement to wait until chatsot to open.

5:03 PM

Actually they don't. Not unless every other business in the community is told by their Rabbonim that they can't open either. That means that Toddy's can't open, Supersol, Brach's, Bagel Delight, Coffee Bar, Amazing Savings, Judaica Plus, any Shomer Shabos store should be closed till after chatzos whether it is a food establishment or not. That is absolutely ridiculous. Especially for a food establishment when mothers have to feed small children and maybe need to go in to the grocery to shop for that purpose. That is going above and beyond their authority of Kashrus.

If you believe that the VAAD of the Five Towns have the right to impose these restrictions then maybe you should call the VAADS of Queens, Rockland County and others and see if they have such rules or not, just to see if there is any reasoning behind this way of thinking.

5:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kashrus is kashrus, it doens't apply to appearance of hours. Appearance has to do with tznius, and hours only have to do with Shabbos and yom tov. You can't tell a business when they can be open or not, that is outside the realm of kashrus.

5:20 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

What happens to Rabbi Kravitz when they cut a deal?

That is a very interesting question and it seems that he is more concerned about the Bolenders getting recertified with the VAAD than him retaining employment with GG. What does that say about the man, his character and his trustworthiness?

Seems like there is no ego there to contend with.

5:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

considering there are no waitresses in GG and the vaad allows grocery stores to open in the morning of 9 b'av, this hypothetical argument is silly. if mr bolender meant non-kashrus related stringencies, he has had ample ooportunity to say so. he has made many statements so far. whats another? if my rav says mr bolender was a problem, thats enough for me.

5:38 PM  
Anonymous observer said...

There seems to be a steady stream of commentaters who claim that the VAAD's authority should be limited to what are "strictly kasruth" issues and not other matter of halacha. I guess strip clubs should now be able to get a hasgacha from the Vaad.

I would like anyone trying to carve out a complete distinction between kashruth and other halachik issues to provide a logical reason why, under their theory, this would not be a potential result (and don't resort to just saying it is a silly idea -- it may well be, but it would also be the logical endpoint of such arguments).

5:51 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

he has had ample ooportunity to say so. he has made many statements so far.

He has to anyone who has bothered to ask him or any of his siblings. This was said many times before, if you want to hear both sides of the story all you have to do is knock on the office door and ask.

5:55 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

but it would also be the logical endpoint of such arguments).

No it would not be the logical endpoint of such arguments because the community in general would not allow such a thing to take place and we wouldn't need the Rabbonim to nix it. It would have nothing to do with halacha it would have everything to do with the basic moral and family values of the community's basic life style.

WE DON'T HAVE TO BE MONITORED TO THE N'TH DEGREE IN MORALS AND LIFE STYLES. We are frum intelligent adults. No one holds a gun to our heads to do mitzvos and to go to shul. We do that from our own free will and we don't need the VAAD overseeing us for basics and to protect us from 'STUPIDITY", "OBSCENITY" AND "OBSURDITY", that you think we are not frum enough, adult enough, mature enough, or moral enough to judge and take care of on our own.

If you need to be in such a box and leash I feel sorry for you, but my years in yeshiva and the way I was brought up, the way I bring up my family, I have every confidence that I don't need to be monitored in that way.

6:02 PM  
Blogger Noyam said...

Observer:

If there existed a strip club that only served certifiably kosher food and wasn't open on shabbos (a potential kashrus issue because of bishul), then that establishment certainly could apply for Hashgacha for its food.

At the same time, the Vaad could certainly deny it. Perhaps because it couldn't have a mashgiach on site, as there would be no mashgiach willing to go (or perhaps there would?). Perhaps the Vaad, simply as a matter of principal would decide not to grant a hashgacha. There is no rule that the Vaad must grant a hashgacha.

If, however, a patron of the club approached the Vaad and asked the simple question, "I have heard that the food there is kosher, is this true?" the Vaad should have no ability to say no.

This is not the case with stores on Central Avenue. A store with an already certified kashrus cannot be browbeaten into forcing the waitresses to wear skirts.

6:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might I point out that these tzinus and store hours issues have nothing to do with GG, and it's evident that the vaad's concerns with GG were related to kashrus and trust (as that relates to kashrus).

6:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There seems to be a steady stream of commentaters who claim that the VAAD's authority should be limited to what are "strictly kasruth" issues and not other matter of halacha. I guess strip clubs should now be able to get a hasgacha from the Vaad.

Agreed-the Rabbanim of course would be perfectly in their rights to prohibit entrance into such a club for other reasons-but not on Kashrut grounds. The Vaad of Kashrut should not deal with that-the same Rabbis could in a different letterhead.

7:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've posted this before, but i just want to mention again. . . .
Cho-sen was not allowed (by the Vaad) to serve fortune cookies during the Aseret Yemei Teshuvah. Does anyone else feel that this is overstepping their job of Kashrut supervision? Not to mention, it's pretty ridiculous.

8:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are they pas yisroel?

9:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

going back a little who is Rabbi Lexus??

9:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think they're referring to rabbi eisen, though I don't believe he really drives a lexus

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Kashrus is kashrus, it doens't apply to appearance of hours. Appearance has to do with tznius, and hours only have to do with Shabbos and yom tov. You can't tell a business when they can be open or not, that is outside the realm of kashrus.

5:20 PM

can the VAAD dictate how one sells their chometz? What about the zman for opening after shabbos?

10:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cho-sen was not allowed (by the Vaad) to serve fortune cookies during the Aseret Yemei Teshuvah. Does anyone else feel that this is overstepping their job of Kashrut supervision? Not to mention, it's pretty ridiculous.

8:51 PM

If true as ED Koch would say RIDICULOUS!!!!


can the VAAD dictate how one sells their chometz?

BTW-probably according to the GRA the way the Vaad stores sells their chametz would not be a proper sale.


What about the zman for opening after shabbos?

Why is that a Kashrut issue-as long as stuff not made on Shabbos. Why ca't a goy open the store on GRA time.

10:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hear a deal is close to happening. All the cashiers of GG must wear long shirts and close every inch of bare skin to complete agreement.Also Men only cashiers for men will me required.

10:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And only torah tapes are to be played in the store

11:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes he drives lexus ls430...he bought it from wheels to lease...2006
Im not sure if he will be able to make his payments..as he will not getting paid off by GG anymore

11:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

question of the day??/night?? How come vaad does not have a list of standards and practices that would be applied to all stores? I came across the vaad of queens website-it seems to be much more straight-shooting than our vaad-check out queensvaad.org/kashrus VERY INTERESTING! They are also listed as a not-for-profit organization by New York State. How come our Vaad has not been forthcoming with a financial accounting? Just curious-as I noticed that I am paying an add'tl fee for Vaad on my White Shul bill???

11:59 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Might I point out that these tzinus and store hours issues have nothing to do with GG, and it's evident that the vaad's concerns with GG were related to kashrus and trust (as that relates to kashrus).

No you can't point that out because it isn't true!!

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the vaad took issue with the tznius and store hours at GG?

12:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might I point out that these tzinus and store hours issues have nothing to do with GG, and it's evident that the vaad's concerns with GG were related to kashrus and trust (as that relates to kashrus).

No you can't point that out because it isn't true!!


then I supposed it's your word against the rabbis' word, and you're obviously somewhat of a nogea b'davar, considering all the one-sided Bolender propaganda you've been disseminating here.

1:05 AM  
Blogger - Typo Lad said...

So why all the hate for Rabbi Eisen? I'm sensing a lot of venom.

7:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He is the cause of all these problems.Rabbi Eisen is not a DAM YASAHR .Ish chadek tamin aya bedorrotav

8:26 AM  
Anonymous observer said...

I realize that my hashgacha for the strip club hypothetical is not realistic -- that was the point -- it was just a poor imitation of a Swiftian Modest Proposal.

No Blind Faith: I appreciate your "feeling sorry" for me. That is very kind of you.

Noyam: Your post indicates that you agree that the Vaad, as a matter of "policy," could refrain to giving a hashgacha to such an establishment. I agree. It would seem to validate my point that the Vaad is not somehow limited to issues that "only" concern kashruth. As to whether if asked, the Vaad could say the food was not kosher, they could certainly said it is not under a reliable hasgacha since no reliable certifying authority would give a hasgacha to such an establishment (for reasons going beyond issues related solely to kashruth).

I don't know exactly why the Vaad pulled their hasgacha, I would love to have more information about it. But, as Orthomom points out (as I understand her), you have to have some faith in the rabaaim of the community. If not, either choose a new community or choose new rabaaim. By the same token, if there is any Rav in the community advocate continuing to shop at GG, I would certainly expect such a Rav's congregants or talmidim to do so. I am simply not aware of any such rabinic pronouncement by a single Rav in the community. I think the rabinate's silence in that regard speaks volumes.

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While the Bolenders screwed the pooch by revealing the real reason for the disagreement, the real problem here is the Orthodox Jews of the community, who, sheeplike, have continued to follow the Vaad which has degenerated into a mess of chumras.

If the average Roman Catholic can remain observant and pious while quietly disregarding the nonsensical papal teachings about birth control, surely intelligent Orthodox Jews can remain Orthodox while shopping wherever they damn well please, the hell with the Vaad.

10:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

100% on target

11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think we can all agree now that the real problem with this community is a minority of people who are comfortable discarding the central orthodox tenet of looking to our elders and our rabbinic leadership for guidance.

When you justify your actions by comparing orthodox observance to roman catholocism, your position is no longer tenable from an orthodox perspective.

11:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are not an island unto ourselves and we are not sheep. It is plausible to learn from others, regardless of their religion and it is possible to reason that the Rabbis are sheep and that they shepherd is faulty.

11:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are not an island unto ourselves and we are not sheep. It is plausible to learn from others, regardless of their religion and it is possible to reason that the Rabbis are sheep and that they shepherd is faulty.

I assume you are not of the orthodox persuasion.

11:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's admirable to question, but it's arrogant to insist you know better.

11:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just spoke to Rabbi Lichtman of Far Rockaway ,he endorses Gourmet Glatt and will put it in writing to the 5 towns jewish times.

12:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this the Rabbi Lichtman who was the Rav of Skokie ten years ago?

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, it is the same Rabbi Lichtman of Skokie who now resides in Far Rockaway

12:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is he going to include the basis for his endorsement? What does he have to do with kashrus at GG?

1:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

YES ,Rabbi Lichtman endorses the Kashruth @ Gourmet Glatt.

1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

that's not much of a basis

1:58 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I am simply not aware of any such rabinic pronouncement by a single Rav in the community. I think the rabinate's silence in that regard speaks volumes.

And what volumes does it speak to you that the Rabbonim are NO LONGER speaking about it at all? Or that the Rabbonim have come up with a solution but Rabbi Eisen, Moshe Mishkowitz and their attorney Frank Snitow is thwarting the negotiations?

2:46 PM  
Blogger - Typo Lad said...

Anon 8:26

He is the cause of all these problems.Rabbi Eisen is not a DAM YASAHR .Ish chadek tamin aya bedorrotav

Wow, that's a pretty big claim.

You should know upfront that I've had a run-in with the man, but I thought amybe it was just me.

How is he the cause? Just by being there?

2:47 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

that's not much of a basis

That's not much of an opinon. Are you now knocking a Rabbi in the community? Are you now saying that this Rabbi is not choshuv, learned or intelligent enough for you? Do you know his qualifications? Do you know anything about him? If you have a personal dissagreement with Rabbi Lichtman that is your own personal issue, but don't you dare have the chutzpah to say anything negative or derogatory in public. Shame on you!! Isn't that how all this started, about the chutzpah of the Kehillah disrespecting the Rabbonim of the community?

Well Rabbi Lichtman happens to be one of the Rabbonim of the community. So show respect and act in a dignified manner. If you don't agree, don't agree, if you don't want to shop in the store, don't shop in the store, But all those that called us "trouble makers" and accused us of displaying a lack of respect for the Rabbonim of this community, you had better be careful because your hypocricy is showing.

2:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does Rabbi Lichtman have to do with GG?

2:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you justify your actions by comparing orthodox observance to roman catholocism, your position is no longer tenable from an orthodox perspective.

I'm not Orthodox, and given this sorry spectacle, I would never particularly want to be of that persuasion.

3:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does Rabbi Lichtman have to do with GG?

Nothing, he is just a frum Rabbi in the community who is disgusted by what is going on.

4:19 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Rabbi Lichtman is probably also upset that Frank Snitow gave an interview, obviously with permission of his clients Rabbi Eisen and Moishe Mishkowitz, to the NYJW, after everyone was told to stay away from the press, thus reigniting the controversy and advertising the chilul Hashem to other communities.

In addition, he is probably aware of the agreement put forth by the RABBONIM of the community, which the Bolender family have already agreed to, and in an effort to show Rabbi Eisen, Moishe Mishkowitz and their Attorney Frank Snitow how offensive their position is to the entire community, in going against the wishes and "psak" of the Rabbonim, he has offered to post a letter of support on behalf of GG. This in essense is also a letter of support to the other Rabbonim because he wants the matter settled as does all other community members. The ones who are holding this up is Rabbi Eisen, MM and Snitow on their behalf.

It gives us food for thought here, we know why Snitow would hold this up, he gains billable hours. What does MM gain from this? Well those in the know, understand his connection and those who don't I am not going to bring that discussion up again and offend people. Now where Rabbi Eisen is concerned this would be where most of us needs to put our thinking caps on and our "seeing" glasses on as well. As said before, if he refuses to go along with and comply with the wishes of the Rabbonim in the community, basically his bosses, does that truly show that he has a "vendetta" or a real issue or dislike of this family that keeps him from dealing with them in a reasonable fashion?

For instance, if the Rabbonim are calling for one pound of flesh as retribution from the family and he is insisting on 10 pounds of flesh, is this a reasonable request? No it isn't, because no matter what title he holds, he holds it only because the Rabbonim of the community gave it to him and can take it away from him. After all, it is our community, and it was our RABBONIM who got together to form the VAAD. If he doesn't understand that, or cannot fathom what that means, then the RABBONIM need to find someone who can work together with them and the community and not against us. We can't have someone here that would rather cause machlokes and divisiveness even at a time when the RABBONIM are calling for harmony and peace.

The RABBONIM have a fuller understanding of the needs and workings of this community than an outsider does, and it is as everyone claimed the RABBONIM who have made the decision how this matter should be settled. IT IS MORE THAN CHUTZPAH AND AN INSULT TO THE RABBONIM, that this man is not willing to come to the table and settle this dispute. It certainly shows his true colors and it certainly sheds a light on where the issues and problems where stemming from all along.

The VAAD is the RABBONIM of the community and not the employee that they hired to be the RAV HAMACHSHIR, he should not allow the title to go to his head. At this point, if he does not come to the table, the president of the VAAD, Steve Savitzky should just come down and sign the papers for the Rabbonim and put this matter to rest. In the event that this is what needs to happen, the Rabbonim should fully understand the impact of this conclusion and start to search for a new Mashgiach for the neighborhood or at the very least definitely limit the contact that Rabbi Eisen has with GG, and put someone else in charge of the store.

4:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It gives us food for thought here, we know why Snitow would hold this up, he gains billable hours."

Let's see 400 billable hours at the rate of 0$ per hour is, mmmmm, let me get a calculator. No, wait, even better let me get a dictionary to look up "pro bono".

4:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or maybe Eisen has a contract that says he has the final say. And Frank Snitow is enforcing RYE's contract/.

5:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MM is Reisman's shikyingel.

5:11 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Let's see 400 billable hours at the rate of 0$ per hour is, mmmmm, let me get a calculator. No, wait, even better let me get a dictionary to look up "pro bono".

PRO BONO, I'll believe it when I see it. He should have told that to the newspaper.

5:43 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Or maybe Eisen has a contract that says he has the final say. And Frank Snitow is enforcing RYE's contract/.

Hey, our Rabbonim are intelligent as well as learned, they would never give over that much control to anyone!!!!!

5:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RYE will never have the final say!!!! If that is what it says in his contract, then he can tear it up. The community has the final say and we will prove it to him. If he doesn't come to the table and comply with the wishes of the RABBONIM, then we WILL boycott the VAAD!!!

5:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Several Points.
1- The Vaad hired RYE, not the other way around. So, are you saying the Vaad made a mistake? Please don't tell me that he was not interviewed and approved by at least a simple majority of the Rabbonim.
2 - How do you expect your enforcer to enforce, if you take away his powers. Sounds like the US army rules of engagement in Iraq & Afghanistan.
3- No Blind faith - you seem to have a problem with people like Steve Savitsky or MM. Both of these men are true KAHAL people. They do things for the community, without fanfare, without gain of any sort. I would venture to say they spend more time helping people and institutions then they spend earning a living !
They do what they do BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN OF ACTION, NOT WORDS. When the Eiruv needed upgrading, they got involved. WHEN THE KASHRUS needed UPGRADING, THEY GOT INVOLVED. Oh, by the way, did I mention, Steve Savitsky doesn't wear a hat in Shul, and he wears a KIPA SRUGA - GASP !!!
So it's not THE BLACK HATs IMPOSING THEIR WILL.
4- While Rabbi Lichtman may be a talmid chacham, IS HE A MEMBER OF THE VAAD?. How about I walk into your office and tell you how to run your business?

Bottom line is - 90% of the posts or posters here have a bone to pick with someone or something. Whether it's a particular Rav, or even the fact that the rabbonim are trying to raise your spiritual levels. You cannot pick or choose what you want to follow. Your Rov IS NOT a menu in a Chinese restaurant. You cannot say "I'll take one from column A and one from column B. Kashrut, no thanks, tzedakah ok, mixed swimming, well in Florida yes, but here no. G-d forbid, when someone is physically ill, you run to your Rov and BEG him to daven for them, but if he tells you to do something you don't like, well then you say "MY Rov is wrong, I'm not listening because..."
LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.
If you are a member of a shul, you are aligning yourself with all it and it's Rov stand for. I find it hard to belive anyone was forced to join a shul. YOU chose to daven there, and follow your Rav. So Follow him ! Yes, I know you are better educated then he is (after all, we're doctors, lawyers. etc. and he is only a Rav) but he has S'yata D'shamaya.
That's enough for me !!

5:51 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Anon 5:51, what's your point?

That the Rabonim from the VAAD don't have a write to come to terms and make an agreement with the Bolenders, which is what happened.

The agreement that is on the table came from the Rabbonim that are on the VAAD.

No one doubts that MM, or SS have done good work for the community. The problem is that RYE is not a member of the community and if he is not listening to the RABBONIM of the community who happen to be on the VAAD, then there is an issue with that. Why MM is backing RYE and not the VAAD rabbonim might have something to do with Rabbi Reisman's influence on him. So don't take offense on his behalf, and again, Steve Savitsky was just mentioned to overstep RYE and settle the matter.

As far as Rabbi Lichtman is concerned, it doesn't really matter if he is part of the VAAD or not. He is supporting the VAAD Rabbonim who came up with the solution agreement and therefore out of dismay that RYE has not agreed to come to the table and comply with the wishes of those community Rabbonim who happen to all be members of the VAAD. He has offered to give a letter of support to GG.

Why am I repeating myself, can't you read.

And by the way, aren't you one of those that kept saying ALL THE RABBONIM OF THE COMMUNITY ARE ON THE VAAD AND SIGNED THE LETTER? Well here is one that isn't, so we proved you wrong again.

As far as the VAAD making a mistake in hiring RYE, maybe they did, whether he complies with the wishes of the VAAD Rabbonim or not will surely be an indication of that, wouldn't it. It is not up to me decide that, I am only entitled to my own opinion.

And about being an ENFORCER, he is only supposed to enforce KASHRUS and nothing else. When he steps over that boundary, there is reason to question his decisions. Right now he is stepping over the boundary of common courtesy and listening to his own bosses which is the people who interviewed him and hired him the RABBONIM of the VAAD.

And as far as Mr. Savitzky's levush, I could care less. If he walked around in a blue shirt and sandals, it is his business not mine. You are the one that has a problem with black hats or kipot serugot. My motto is live and let live. Jews walked through the fire and came out alive. Every single Jew is important to me no matter who, what, where and how. Unlike RYE I don't judge!

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are not an island unto ourselves and we are not sheep. It is plausible to learn from others, regardless of their religion and it is possible to reason that the Rabbis are sheep and that they shepherd is faulty.

"I assume you are not of the orthodox persuasion."

Sorry, actually I do consider myself Orthodox, though you may not. Perhaps what distinguishes us is that I recognize that there are Rabbis that steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on. Rabbis are people too. All people are capable of error. No person can be held in such high esteem that they are thought to be infallible. By the same token there are people who are not Rabbis who do not steal, have no vices and are pure in thought and action. I would look up to this person regardless of his religion before blindly following a corrupt Rabbi.

7:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Applause, as a matter of fact....STANDING OVATION!!

7:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, actually I do consider myself Orthodox, though you may not. Perhaps what distinguishes us is that I recognize that there are Rabbis that steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on. Rabbis are people too. All people are capable of error. No person can be held in such high esteem that they are thought to be infallible. By the same token there are people who are not Rabbis who do not steal, have no vices and are pure in thought and action. I would look up to this person regardless of his religion before blindly following a corrupt Rabbi.

So you're operating under the assumption that most of the rabbis in the commmunity "steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on."

8:20 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

So you're operating under the assumption that most of the rabbis in the commmunity "steal, molest boys, entice women in desparate marital situations and so on."

Actually it looks like you are operating under the assumtion that "THE BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE".

I didn't read that it to his post at all. He did not at all imply any such thing about the Rabbis in this community, so don't try to twist his words around and start another war! It was a general statement worth stating.

8:32 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am shocked that some contributors to this blog have better than 100% accurate information and are way ahead of the rest of us. I keep reading just to know what to expect tomorrow. Penned by someone also in the know but every time I read this blog before my day starts or ends, I find out I am still a little behind.

8:44 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Well some of the supporters on either side keep in close contact with the players. I for one bothered to go in to GG and ask questions as I have mentioned before, and I still ask questions because I believe they got a raw deal.

But they have agreed to comply with the terms set forth by the current committee of VAAD Rabbonim. It wasn't easy for them to swallow the bitter pill and give in to the demands, but they did to get back to normal and make peace in the neighborhood. Some of the concessions were very hard on the family, but they are willing to stick it out, ride it out whichever way you wish to put it, and I for one respect them tremendously for that.

Some of you could only find L"H and horrible things to say about them. Not one of you mentioned the hard work and tremendous success that Andrea Bolender achieved this past Sunday as Chairwoman of the L.I. Holocaust Museum Dinner. She and her team raised over a half million dollars.
She was praised by the likes of Mario Cuomo and his son Andrew, as well as other dignitaries and celebrities like Calvin Klien. Goyim praise her and Jews "shelt" her. What does that say about us? How do you feel about the way you treat a second generation survivor? You should never even know an hour of the suffering and pain that their parents endured.

Shame on all of you!!!!!!

But put that aside, this is all coming to a head. I don't think the Rabbonim are going to sit on this much longer. What will be the outcome? Here is a question for all of you. Let's just say the deal is blown out of the water because that is RYE and MM's intention by stalling. But once it is blown out of the water and it doesn't go through GG has no reason to keep it under wraps or stay quiet about it.

Suppose that they go through with it anyway. Suppose they do everything the Rabbonim wanted in their agreement. Suppose their Lawyer posts the agreement after the fact and GG does everything the Rabbonim asks for regardless of whether or not the VAAD recertifies them. Then what?

Where would you stand? Would you go back there? The Rabbonim couldn't say that they are not complying with their wishes, they can only say that they are not complying with RYE's wishes which are unreasonable and the Rabbonim themselves did not agree to that.

In that case, considering that they have a good hechsher and they comply with the agreement that the Rabbonim of the VAAD set forth, and knowing that RYE went against the wishes of the Rabbonim of the community, would you necessarily still boycott GG without the VAAD hechsher?

This is an interesting question to ponder wouldn't you say? GG would be listening to the Rabbonim and not RYE, but are RYE wouldn't be listening to the Rabbonim. What a cycle of events.

9:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why doesn't Bolender start his own blog to take surveys and further his business?

9:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you have against Bolender?

9:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What if RYE took an issue to Benji and his story? What then? What if he started picking on him and the store he manages? Would you be up in arms about that? Or is it just Bolender?

9:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you have against Bolender?

I don't think anyone here has anything against Bolender, but the way commenters like "no blind faith" have been denigrating our rabbis with the Bolender perspective, it doesn't reflect very well on Bolender.

9:40 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I take exception to what you said. I have not denitgrated the Rabbis in any way. As a matter of fact, I have stated how much I respected them for getting together and working out a solution.

So I will thank you for not putting any words (derogatory especially) in my mouth. I can speak for myself, Thank you very much.

9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question to "no blind faith":

Do you ever feel like the right wing "brooklyn" type people are moving into the neighborhood and eroding the quality of life that previously existed here?

11:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There has never been "quality of life" here, if you define it by the number of intolerant people living here. In the 30's the Wasps were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area. In the 80's the Conservative Jews were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area. Today all the modern Orthodox are complaining about all the Jews moving into the area. Do you see a a pattern?

11:35 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I see a pattern of intolerance and "holier than thou" going on here. I see a pattern "My way or the highway" instead of "live and let live".

I see the continuously growing number of "Judgmental Jews" who forgot that Hashem never appointed them for the job. However he did command them with "v'ahavta l'reiacha Kamocha".

I see a growing number of Jews that forgot that Hashem sees everything, hears everything and knows everything and after 120 Yom Hadin will come when everyone will have to give a din v'cheshbon, nothing will be hidden and everyone will have to pay for their sins.

I see a growing number of Jews who have let their power and authority go to their heads and forget that the gedolim of "old" were gedolim because they were "small" in their nature and "large" in their anivus. They were humble, kind and gentle. They were not swayed by money or yichus and they did not protect desecrators of the Torah nor molestors of innocent children.

I see a growing number of Yeshivas who are looking not only for robots, like some Yeshivas of 20 years ago tried to produce, but today they are looking for "PERFECTION OR METZUYANIM" and the rest can fall by the wayside. Never mind what the Torah said, "to teach a child al pi darko". If a child is not the smartest, the brightest, or the richest, throw them out on the street.

I see a lynch mob who were willing to be motzi shem rah and accuse a family of being mechalel Shabbos and oiver Torah and mitzvos, without providing any proof whatsoever, and without giving a hoot how that would effect their children and/or their parnassah. They were willing to come right out and hang this family by their toes or worse with no proof at all. What does that say about us wonderful Jews?

I see a community that got along perfectly fine before an outsider came in and turned us upside down, and now that same outsider is refusing to listen and comply with the agreement that our own Rabbonim, the community Rabbonim, the ones that interviewed him and hired him, the ones that belong to the VAAD, the ones that are his bosses, have asked him to sign.

I am confused and wondering what our Rabbonim are going to say to him about his behavior after they had no qualms about telling us that we were not allowed to shop at this store. What consequence will he have to suffer for making a mockery of these Rabbonim and their efforts to make peace and Shalom in the community?

The GG family have accepted the consequence that was placed on them. They suffered the first consequence which was the original boycott and they came to the Rabbonim to make peace and to ask for another solution. Then they accepted the consequences that the Rabbonim offered. What more do you want from this family?

I came to live in this neighborhood because of the peace, harmony and serenity. I think the only transplant from Brooklyn that doesn't belong here and has caused us heartache and issues can and should be sent home.

12:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see a group of frustrated community members longing for the days when black hats and sheitels were a rarity on Central Ave., and repulsed by the prospect of any "more religious" influence being thrust upon their daily lifestyles.

Isn't that what this conflict is all about?

12:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no

2:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to no blind faith... i have religiously read yur posts... you seem to be one of the few bright lights in the five towns darkest hours... may your light shine forever.

8:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

see a growing number of Yeshivas who are looking not only for robots, like some Yeshivas of 20 years ago tried to produce, but today they are looking for "PERFECTION OR METZUYANIM" and the rest can fall by the wayside. Never mind what the Torah said, "to teach a child al pi darko". If a child is not the smartest, the brightest, or the richest, throw them out on the street.


Literally true-more important than if one place more or less sells goodies.
"The my way or the highway approach"expanded from 1 yeshiva with no feeder school-to another Yeshiva where the approach had been chanoch lnaor al pi darcho until they hired the heads of that smaller school to be heads of that large HS with roots back in predecessor institutions more than 50 years. When one has people claiming Rosh Yeshiva title-probably because they at one time were more capable of fixing mens soles than souls-but are proud of how they can cull out the less successful and not a word out of any local Rav something is terribly wrong in the state of 5T Jewish affairs.

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the 80's the Conservative Jews were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area


the Far Rock 5T community has been around a long time. For starters Shaaray over 90 years, the White Schul over 80 years, Beth Shalom over 50 years.
It may not be good PR for those who claim this area was a midbar before certain mosdao were established-but htere have been Shomer Shabbos people who went to shiurim their whold lives and lived to 90 and grew up in this area.

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the sentence just before the one you quoted. So, what's your point?

"In the 30's the Wasps were complaining about all the Jews moving into the area."

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 9:45, otherwise known as "Ear to the wall".
It's so easy to blame others. A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.

10:29 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.

I'll have you know that some of the biggest most well known Rabbonim in the best communities have the same problems with their kids as any "common family". Are you implying that the don't practice "effective parenting"?

11:17 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Getting back to the heart of the matter.... I have found out a little more information which seems to make a little more sense out of the whole situation. You can all do your own research to verify what I found out.

It seems that the RAV who found RYE and brought him here, recommended him for the job and literally plopped him on the VAAD, was not a VAAD RAV. However he has been influencing RYE with his opinions and his hashkafas on Kashrus and his own personal opinon on GG all along. That is why RYE believed that the Bolenders were not Shomer Torah and mitzvos. It wasn't that RYE saw anything on his own, it was because he heard L"H from this RAV and has been following his lead and his recommendation of putting GG out of business.

This in itself has been a conflict of interest with the VAAD because this RAV is an outsider to the VAAD and is not part of the group of RABBONIM that belong to the VAAD. So where the RABBONIM on the VAAD have a basic standard set of rules that they go by, RYE was overly stringent and biased because of the influence of the RAV that got him the job.

This will no doubt come out in the COURT CASE in the event of a LAW SUIT and I am pretty sure that the RAV in question will be named in the suit as well.

Most probably his influence at the moment is keeping RYE from complying with the RABBONIM in signing the current agreement.

How sad is this for our community. If the VAAD really wants to be a unified force of quality Kashrus and commitment to the community, they have to make sure that they don't have any traitors or any insiders sabotaging their own efforts.

11:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 9:45, otherwise known as "Ear to the wall".
It's so easy to blame others. A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.

A typical apologetic from a Yeshiva or parent of very good students. Basic facts-entering Junior High parents and children assured that one can stay in that school system unti HS -as long as behave-and the previous years all have behaved. Previous Exec. Dirc-who died on job-assured parents that we are a N-12 school and take responsibility.
Parents and children-of all abilities continue in school. Just before last Pesach time-joint cooperative agreement was signed between 2 different HS's which at a minimum meant that the bigger one took one the 2 top ones of the smaller one as "RY" and Principal. Parents sson after get told by some of carryover administration that new top people are looking to cull weaker students out. Encouraged parents to look elsewhere-some took hint-others were told just before school started to leave and others who politically they did not want to take that route-they had ex Rebbe of student tell them for your good leave-they will just try and get you anyway. Clear change from previous educational director of N-12 who got reassigned only to HS. Midstream change against kids and parents.

As far as effective parenting goes-al dan chavercha ad shetagiya limkomo. Adam nivra yichidi baolam-same techniques that work for 150 IQ and kids winning Westinghouses etc do not work for our average students.

BTW-a major change in school policy. The predecessor administration would release kids form some classes for counselling etc-the new higher standard administration said no one can be released on school time. The previous adminitration would exempt some of the weaker kids from certain Hebrew subjects going back to beginning of JHS for tutoring etc. The new administration stated everyone must take all courses-even if they are incapable of it. BTW-even if they might have been capable with hard work if they always took them-once they were excused in JHS and HS from those subjects in upper HS they certainly were not capable of doing those subjects. Attitude of new administration-I don't care-we have a school to run with standards. Naturally as Marvin Schick has written about for years when kids are asked to leave or encouraged BTW wo parents even being told that the school isgoing to do that-what do you expect from kids whose life for over a decade has revolved around a certain bunch of friends and environment.

Friends 1029 AM for kids old enough to drive and even those younger are the main influences for better or worse on "normal kids". Between 14-20 essentially parents have very little influence as a very frum Prof. of soc. work told me : "there has never been in the history of mankind a normal teenager who listens to their parents" BTW it is part of the independence aspect of growing up.
By 20's most if not all have more respect from their children.

BTW-I see at minyan other parents whose kids have been driven away. Read "Off the Derech" 1029. It might save peoples SOULS.

11:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No Blind Faith said...
A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.

I'll have you know that some of the biggest most well known Rabbonim in the best communities have the same problems with their kids as any "common family". Are you implying that the don't practice "effective parenting"?

11:17 AM


No Blind Faith said...
A little effective parenting would have prevented the expulsion from school.

I'll have you know that some of the biggest most well known Rabbonim in the best communities have the same problems with their kids as any "common family". Are you implying that the don't practice "effective parenting"?

11:17 AM


And to extend it 1029 Avraham Avinu didn't practice effective parenting, Ishmael-Yitachack-Esau, Yaacov-selling Joseph to slavery. Moshe Rabeinu-his kids are not famous- Aaron--2 sons kiolled for bringing in strange fire-David Hamelech-read the recent haftarah about how his kids acted on succession.
It is very easy to blame parents-but when a Yeshiva has a POLICY of encouraging the weaker to leave that is a problem.

11:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ear to the Wall, at the next board meeting state your views publicly, instead of bashing rabonim behind the veil of anonymity.

11:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:58 anon,

Why is it if you don't have an intelligent answer, you claim that everyone is bashing Rabbonim. No one is bashing Rabbonim we are simply stating the sad facts and reminding everyone not to judge. Why are you always blaming the parents. If you are not in the "Parsha" as we say, you are uneducated as to what is going on, so for someone standing outside the window looking in, just observe and listen and don't comment if you are not well informed, because you are misguided and your comments are hurtful and dangerous.

2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
11:58 anon,

Why is it if you don't have an intelligent answer, you claim that everyone is bashing Rabbonim. No one is bashing Rabbonim we are simply stating the sad facts and reminding everyone not to judge. Why are you always blaming the parents. If you are not in the "Parsha" as we say, you are uneducated as to what is going on, so for someone standing outside the window looking in, just observe and listen and don't comment if you are not well informed, because you are misguided and your comments are hurtful and dangerous.

2:52 PM

Thanks for your comments.

1139 AM and 945 AM anon

2:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Clear change from previous educational director of N-12 who got reassigned only to HS.

I should have written

Clear change from previous educational director of N-12 who got reassigned only to K-8.

Doesn't change the facts-just the personalities involved. But frankly anyone who knows what I am referring to and knows the names knows their viewpoints-there is no secret.

3:03 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I just came back from shopping in GG and I would love to say it was all a buz, but I don't lie, so I will say that I was happy to say every register was busy. I even saw a Rabbinic (DD) plate in the parking lot.

The shoppers were all talking about their committment to the store and the family and that they were there to show support. They were also all appreciative of Rabbi Lichtman's effort to add chizuk and support to the store.

I was asked what I thought of Rabbi Lichtman's letter and here is my take on it. Rabbi L is not opposing the Rabbonim in the community, he is simply stating that we are all human and we take a wrong turn now and then. In this case he felt that the Rabbonim backed themselves into a corner. Although, at this point the Rabbonim did find a way out by offering this new agreement to GG.

In my own humble opinion, I have been comptemplating the issue and I have been wondering if the Rabbonim are much smarter than we have been giving them credit for. I remembered the story of Shlomo Hamelech, the two mothers and the baby. I saw the significance in this instant.

Maybe the Rabbonim were actually testing the two parties involved in the dispute to see who would acquiese and give in more readily to bring peace and shalom to the community. Would it be the store who has more to lose by giving up a portion of their ownership and parnasa, and also having an additional "consequence" placed upon them, or would it be the Rav Hamachshir who would have nothing to lose and would only have to understand how important peace and harmony is in the neighborhood?

This is an interesting question and situation. The family, over the past 10 years have learnt alot from the community, their loyal customers and the Rabbonim of the VAAD, which happen to be their customers as well. We are all human, and are all capable of making mistakes, but what makes us different from others is the ability and capacity to learn right from wrong and to change and gain both in intelligence and midos from those around us, the exemplary role models that we choose to follow.

In this instance, who proved to be the true mother of the child? Who came to the Rabbonim and said we accept your offer, stop the slaughter, we will do what you ask? It was the family who truly cares about the community, of course they have their best interest at heart too, but they could choose to continue to seek other hechsherim such as Bruer's or Star K, or others who can supervise along with Rabbi Kravitz. They do have other options as well as a Law Suit to recoup their losses.

They didn't choose that route, they want to work with the Rabbonim not against them. But what about the other Mother in the story? What about the other partner in the dispute, what did he choose to do? He chose to raise the demands against the King. I don't care what the Rabbonim want, I WANT WHAT I WANT, and I WON'T GIVE IN AN INCH!! What does that say about that player? Who is really the partner in sholom and peace in this scenario?

So maybe this was a test the Rabbonim have designed to see who was telling the truth from the beginning, and maybe they will decide now that they need a different peace partner for this neighborhood. Like it was mentioned before, Rabbi Erlich is qualified, or maybe they need to review why Rabbi Chait was fired in the first place. Was it their decision or was it RYE's. If there was something inappropriate in the firing of Rabbi Chait, maybe it is time that they reconsidered that move and they offer the job back to him.

Just a thought!

3:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do find it a good sign that each time I go shopping at GG there are more and more people shopping. In schul today many have decided to go and show there support. As a local business owner I too have been subjected to VAAD gangster like activities. They complained about a workers outfit, why are the Rabbis looking at her and not just the kitchen. I do remember what they did to GLATT YACHT! If we complain will they try to put me out of business?
Kosher supervision is a business and a dirty business at that. AS soon as everyone sees that then we can talk about fixing it.

10:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's time for stores to band together for self-supervision

11:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

as a store owner that would be a great thing
what a wonderful idea

12:29 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I don't believe that self-supervision is the answer, nor that it is what the community will be comfortable relying on. However, I don't believe they are comfortable any longer relying on a Mashgiach who thumbs his nose at the community Rabbonim who are on the VAAD and are his bosses, and instead is lead by a leash by a RAV who is not part of the VAAD. He displayed in no uncertain terms that he was playing two sides of the fence and his loyalties were not with the current VAAD but elsewhere.

We are all well aware that GG was never on the "approved list", and had they wanted to be they would have made changes on their own to do so. They didn't need RYE to bully them or pick on them to conform to stringent rules that would make THAT RAV satisfied because such a huge number of the Kehillah chose to shop there regardless of whether the store was approved or not.

I myself have met many of his Kehillah in GG, and that must have been a sore point. But none of this really has to do with him. THAT RAV is really not to blame, because RYE has a will and a mind of his own. He had the power to CHOOSE where his loyalties lie and to whom he would listen to.

We can all see now what choice he made, and our VAAD Rabbonim can see as well. It is now time for our VAAD Rabbonim to CHOOSE a new RAV HAMACHSIR, settle the dispute with GG and put our community back in order.

We want our store and we choose to shop there, the fact that people keep coming back at a steady rate is proof enough. The fact that the store was so popular to begin with speaks volumes. As a community and I am sure as each individual member of the community we truly do not wish to go against our Rabbi's wishes. But in this case, we believe that our Rabbis were truly misled and that now they can see the truth.

We do not blame them for seeing things, or understanding things the way they did. They had no choice but to first trust the person they hired and chose to put their trust into. But by now they have had the opportunity to really and matter of factly see both sides of the story.

RYE has his own agenda and it is not a pretty one. He is out to destroy GG and if he gets away with it, the power will go to his head and he will do it to the next store too if they don't tremble in their boots when he walks through the door.

Remember this clearly Hashem is the only one we need to fear and Hashem is the one we will all have to answer to after 120. If the Rabbonim do not take the necessary steps to correct this horrible mistake and find a peaceful solution for all the storekeepers in the community there will be a lot of shared responsibility that might continue to compound, that will be carried on their shoulders for a very long time to come.

Please take every opportunity you can to speak to your Rabbonim and ask them to settle the matter as quickly as possible. Ask them to hire a local RAV HAMACHSHIR who has a committment to the concerns and true welfare of the community. Let's face it, a local person will not let us down, after all the food he supervises might wind up on his own table. In addition, he would be more readily available if he lived in the community.

Please bring these points to your own RAV and beg him to consider these issues.

12:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Vaad truly wants to bring peace back to the community, they would temporarily lift the ban of GG and work towards a viable resolution of this nightmarish situation. Rabbi Pinchas ( who was the Vaad-placed Mishgiach ) is still at GG. Give a temporary hechser for 60 days to allow for a better understanding of what occurred so that this situation NEVER happens again! I am sure all parties involved would benefit. The Vaad Rabbonim could regain the respect of the community; GG could regain their parnusha; RYE would have to prove ALL ALLEGATIONS,etc. Then the people can decide where to shop.

7:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Doesn't change the facts-just the personalities involved. But frankly anyone who knows what I am referring to and knows the names knows their viewpoints-there is no secret.

3:03 PM

So why not mention names about theschool situation-HAFTR hired Rabbi Friedman who is proud of 2 things 1) he makes demonstrations a big part of his curriculum-see RAMBAM the first decade plus and HAFTR the last couple of months;
2) that he forces out weaker kids-he has done that routinely at RAMBAM and now the HAFTR Board evidently hired him to follow the same "magic" and let the weaker kids disappear-to where who cares.

12:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been shooping in GG the entire time because as a person in the food business the business of kosher supervision makes me sick. I agree with the person who wrote that it is a business and a very dirty one at best.

What is sad is that people are going against Rabbi's that have been respected for years. I am sad that my Rabbi has ignored phone calls on the subject and has ignored e mmails on the subject. The damage the vaad has done cuts very deep!

1:20 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

What is sad is that this has been a community of achdus and continuity and that is why many of us transplanted ourselves from other areas where we thought politics took over our lives.

We didn't appreciate other people and their politics or agendas creeping into our homes, our kitchens and even our bedrooms. We hated the fact that our children came home with chutzpah to tell us that their Rebbe said that "tatty" or "mommy" was wrong and they didn't have to listen to them.

So we moved to a community where people seemed to live in harmony. Women either covered their hair or not, men either wore black hats or kipot srugot, but it didn't seem to matter to anyone, because Jews were Jews and they were all davening, learning, and doing chessed and mitzvos. They were all ovdei Hashem and doing it b'simcha just the way Hashem wanted it.

This seemed like the perfect community to live in. All the Rabbonim seemed to get along. They announced all the activities of the neighborhood in all the shuls, there didn't seem to be the competition among the Rabbonim and Shuls that we had in Brooklyn, and life seemed pretty pleasant and less stressful here.

Now look what happened? An outsider comes in here and turns the community upside down. Neighbors are arguing with each other. People who have sat at the table for years together in peace and harmony are asking each other where they shop and saying "I can no longer eat in your home!!!!", Parents and children are having the same arguement.

Who needs this? Who asked for this? Is it worth it? Who created this chilul Hashem? Who is maintaining it? And better yet, who can stop it?

Where are all of you RABBONIM supporters who where yelling and screaming right here on this blog that we were chutzpadik to go against the community Rabbonim who made up the VAAD and signed the letter, and so on? Where is Flatbush Renegade who quoted parsha and verse?

The community VAAD Rabbonim have come up with a solution and this OUTSIDER HAS REFUSED TO COMPLY. Why are you not yelling about that? Why are you not zehitz that he has the nerve to spit in our Rabbonim's faces and demand that the Rabbonim double the stakes and ask for even more than double? Who is he to demand anything from our Rabbonim? Who is he to say to our Rabbonim not to have a heart or a soul, or not to listen to the community that they serve?

He is not one of us, he is an outsider and he is not serving the needs of our community by causing such machlokes among us, among neighbors and friends, among parents and children. He is not a Rodef Sholem, he is afflicting more harm than good and he should be sent packing. Such a man that causes so much harm and breaks the sholom in the community is considered a "Rosha" and we must remove ourselves as far away as possible from a "Rosha".

We can do better than him, we deserve better than him, we can and will settle this disagreement without him, because as stated earlier he "IS NOT A PEACE PARTNER". He is not willing to negotiate in a civilized manner.

The Rabbonim have no other alternative after the way he has shown himself and behaved the past few weeks. They have no other recourse but to relieve him of his duties and find a new head for OUR VAAD. This is our community and OUR VAAD. I highly doubt that anyone has any respect left for the man who has disrespected our Rabbonim so publicly.

I only wish that the Rabbonim, all of them, all 37 or however many there were that signed the original letter, would get together and oust him immediately from the job. Because as much as they felt that GG and the Bolenders were insubordinate or broke the terms of their contract. I am quite sure that the actions and display of insubordination that RYE has shown these past few weeks has definitely broken the terms of his contract as well.

The issue with GG has hurt too many and cost too many people too much. Many of us are paying more out of our own pockets just to show support. I for one have not stepped foot into COSTCO since this whole thing started. I beg each of you to beg the Rabbonim to put the new agreement into effect with or without RYE and put an end to this horrible pain the community has suffered by RYE's hands.

1:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

isn't Bolender an outsider doing business in the 5T just like RYE is?

4:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is sad is that this has been a community of achdus and continuity

It really never has been one-the community has been split beneath the surface-this was the flag that showed how the community has been split.

Women either covered their hair or not, men either wore black hats or kipot srugot, but it didn't seem to matter to anyone, because Jews were Jews and they were all davening, learning, and doing chessed and mitzvos. They were all ovdei Hashem and doing it b'simcha just the way Hashem wanted it.


But certainly in the past decade or so-people have known where to move-how many women who don't cover their hair have moved in the past decade west of
lawrence Ave. Compare to the numbers east of Woodmere Ave.
People in the more modern shuls have been looked down upon here for decades. How many Darchei parents kids hang around with HAFTR kids. Very few.

4:16 PM  
Anonymous sam said...

Dump Rye. send him back to Nostrand Ave. If he tried this with ShopSmart they would have broken his bones

4:19 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

isn't Bolender an outsider doing business in the 5T just like RYE is?

Actually no, his family has been running this store in different spots in the neighborhood way before many of us has moved here

4:50 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

How many Darchei parents kids hang around with HAFTR kids. Very few.

Who hangs out with whom or where someone chooses to buy a home is not the same as infighting and boycotts. Don't even try to compare it, it doesn't hold water. Whether you choose to send your kids to HAFTR or Darchei, you are still welcome to daven in any shul you wish to. No one would ask you to leave, you are welcome anywhere. And whether you cover your hair or not, you still get the same "gut shabbos" on the street.

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whether you choose to send your kids to HAFTR or Darchei, you are still welcome to daven in any shul you wish to. No one would ask you to leave, you are welcome anywhere


You are welcome to pay dues in any schul-but for better or worse-in a younger age-teenagers parents are irrlevant in friends-it is not common for parents to ensure that their kids don't get too friendly with those who go to the "wrong" school. It is not simply when they are in different neighborhoods those within a few houses of each other won't be welcome-fact of life.

you still get the same "gut shabbos" on the street.

Unfortunately to strangers not that often-I have had opportunities-obligations-other the years to essentially walk round trip on Shabbos through the 5T's and I would make a point of wishing everyone a good shabbos-most do not answer-significant minority do-most don't.

7:53 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

round trip on Shabbos through the 5T's and I would make a point of wishing everyone a good shabbos-most do not answer-significant minority do-most don't.

I am very disheartened to hear that. I have not experienced that at all in Lawrence and Far Rockaway, no matter who I meet and what their level of frumkeit is. I don't often walk through the 5 towns on Shabbos, but I do say hello to everyone during my routine visits through town weekly and always get at least a smile or a nod in return.

My spouse and children are constantly asking me if I know all these people. I apologize to you for all the mean spirited people who do not have common sense and are have not been taught to be polite enough to respond to a greeting. I know that I am early but "Gut Shabbos!"

8:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

isn't Bolender an outsider doing business in the 5T just like RYE is?

Actually no, his family has been running this store in different spots in the neighborhood way before many of us has moved here


Does that make Bolender a member of the community? Neither Bolender nor RYE live in our community, though they both profit off it. Maybe we should send them both packing.

8:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does that make Bolender a member of the community? Neither Bolender nor RYE live in our community, though they both profit off it. Maybe we should send them both packing.


you have to be kidding!! now will the vaad add another requirement to their list...all shopkeepers must live in town!! and the bolenders helped build this community over the past 20 plus years... i think that makes them community members, dont you think?? they have supported our shuls, yeshivas etc with their donations and their beautiful store adds to our town. how can you compare the two???

8:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a nod in return


if you add the nods to the Good shabosses -it is most people-I was referring to answer in kind. Still a minority don't answer.

maybe no blind faith there is a difference if you walk if your family and if I walk solo-if I walk with my wife-interesting difference perhaps

9:42 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Does that make Bolender a member of the community? Neither Bolender nor RYE live in our community, though they both profit off it. Maybe we should send them both packing.

Are you trying to cleanse the community? What are you going to try next? You know that Heimishe bakery doesn't live in the neighborhood either. Does Sammy from the Coffee Bar and Hapina? And then again there is Schwartz' Appetizing. What about Mike from Off the Grill I don't think he can afford to live here, he hasn't made enough off of us yet.

Oh yeah, and if I remember correctly the Langs of Judaica Plus don't live here either. Do you want to take a concensus and not allow anyone outside the neighborhood to run a store here. I think you would have to take that up with the Town of Hempstead, I doubt you will make a case.

11:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually it looks like you are operating under the assumtion that "THE BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE". (That's a quote from "no blind faith" above)

I think the point about the Bolenders not living in the area was intended to counter the criticism of RYE having invaded our area from Brooklyn and imposed on our community without even living here. That was a silly point to make about RYE just as much as it's silly it is to insinuate that the Bolenders should have any less standing in our community because they're not from the area.

12:14 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

The comment in regard to RYE being out of our area was to emphasize the point that he is not willing to listen to our community RABBONIM (who happen to be his bosses) in regard to settling this matter, due to the strain, division and chilul Hashem that it has perpertrated in OUR COMMUNITY.

Maybe if he was a member of our COMMUNITY he would show more RESPECT to our RABBONIM and come to the table as they wish, and comply with the AGREEMENT that they set forth.

I hope this clears things up for you.

12:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The comment in regard to RYE being out of our area was to emphasize the point that he is not willing to listen to our community RABBONIM (who happen to be his bosses) in regard to settling this matter, due to the strain, division and chilul Hashem that it has perpertrated in OUR COMMUNITY.

Considering the fact that the rabbonim all agreed on the actions that were taken and they all singed RYE's letter, there doesn't seem to be much discord between them.

12:54 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Considering the fact that the rabbonim all agreed on the actions that were taken and they all singed RYE's letter, there doesn't seem to be much discord between them.

You need to catch up a little. It seems you are a couple of steps behind the crowd.

The RABBONIM have come up with an AGREEMENT solution which the Bolenders have accepted, although it was a bitter pill to swallow. RYE has rejected the RABBONIM's decision, and wants to more than double the consequence than the RABBONIM have decided on. Therefore he is not a Peace Partner in the negotiations, he has thumbed his nose at OUR RABBONIM and he is instigated the continuation of more chilul Hashem and more divisiveness in the community.

That is where we are currently holding. That is what we are currently upset about and that is what we are currently talking about.

12:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Considering the fact that the rabbonim all agreed on the actions that were taken and they all singed RYE's letter, there doesn't seem to be much discord between them."

Word is rabbi eisen hypnotized all the rabbis at the vaad meeting and when they came to their senses, they had all signed the letter (and it was too late to reverse it)

12:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The RABBONIM have come up with an AGREEMENT solution which the Bolenders have accepted, although it was a bitter pill to swallow. RYE has rejected the RABBONIM's decision, and wants to more than double the consequence than the RABBONIM have decided on. Therefore he is not a Peace Partner in the negotiations, he has thumbed his nose at OUR RABBONIM and he is instigated the continuation of more chilul Hashem and more divisiveness in the community.

Just because this is your version of the events, does not mean anyone else accepts it as true and correct.

12:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This dialogue is ridiculous. It's obvious that the individual commenting here as "no blind faith" is squarely in the pro-Bolender camp and has serious misgivings about rabbi eisen. It's also pretty obvious that "no blind faith" is far from an objective bystander in this conflict, and it's hard to believe that anyone who spends so much time writing comments here (at least 1 out of every 4 posts here) and trying to build a case against the vaad does not have a financial stake in this conflict.

So I can't imagine anyone really appreciates hearing your anti-vaad and anti-rabbi and anti-eisen spin at every juncture, considering where it's coming from. Either separate yourself from the conflict or stop using this plog as your propaganda mill. It's extremely disengenuous and it's discurteous to those regulars who appreciate the objective dialogue usually found here.

2:27 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

No Blind Faith, I would have to agree with the above commenter. You started off here professing to be an objective observer, simply questioning the status quo as you had "no blind faith". But it is quite clear from your recent comments that you have an axe to grind with RYE and the Vaad that is far from objective. Your diatribes are getting tedious, and violating my rule against extreme anti-Vaad rhetoric. Give it up.

7:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

momof4 said...
No Blind Faith, I would have to agree with the above commenter. You started off here professing to be an objective observer, simply questioning the status quo as you had "no blind faith". But it is quite clear from your recent comments that you have an axe to grind with RYE and the Vaad that is far from objective. Your diatribes are getting tedious, and violating my rule against extreme anti-Vaad rhetoric. Give it up.

7:45 AM

dear momof4, so i guess you will no longer allow any individual to post unless they support the vaad's position?? this site is becoming tedious and now offensive to all americans.. i guess you no longer believe in freedom of speech?

7:57 AM  
Anonymous Observer said...

Wow, this site is "now offensive to all americans." I guess I must be Khazakastani. That damn Borat!

8:15 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


dear momof4, so i guess you will no longer allow any individual to post unless they support the vaad's position?? this site is becoming tedious and now offensive to all americans.. i guess you no longer believe in freedom of speech?


Yeah, my blog is a regular hotbed of censorship. Must be really hard to read all my comments from behind the iron curtain.

8:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Early December.

Much ado about nothing.

Status quo will return.

I'd say, "no harm no fou(w)l" but there was a great deal of unnecessary harm over some poor little fowl.

Neither side is without blame or shame. And this is why the community SHOULD NOT be aware of every aspect of the Vaad's business. Nothing good can come of it. The press and blogs have done more to divide and incite than Bolender or RYE or the Rabbonim. Since no one knew what was going on everything was speculation and innuendo, which led to rumor and lashon hora. A very sorry spectacle.

But by December 7th, it will all be over. Perhaps we, on that day, should fly our flags at half-mast, to commemorate the death of trust and allegiance.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

4:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are we going to blog about?

4:12 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Just because this is your version of the events, does not mean anyone else accepts it as true and correct.

12:59 AM

This is not MY VERSION of the events, nice try though. Go ask some of the Rabbonim.

4:52 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

No Blind Faith, I would have to agree with the above commenter. You started off here professing to be an objective observer, simply questioning the status quo as you had "no blind faith". But it is quite clear from your recent comments that you have an axe to grind with RYE and the Vaad that is far from objective. Your diatribes are getting tedious, and violating my rule against extreme anti-Vaad rhetoric. Give it up.

Let's get somethng cleared up right here and right now. The VAAD is THE RABBONIM OF THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER TO FORM THE VAAD. RYE is an employee of the VAAD.

I have clearly stated in every post on this thread that I appreciate every Rabbi of the VAAD for getting together to settle the matter. So once again I ask you NOT TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I know what I have said here, and I know what I meant. You can go over all these posts to verify.

I have not said one unkind or disrespectful word to any RAV in this community on this thread, and again you can go all the way to the top of these posts to double check.

And although you have decided to be judge and jury and find me guilty of being biased, I can say the same about OM. I know what I know because because I too am a second generation Holocaust Survivor, and I made a point of hearing both sides of the conflict. I spoke to some Rabbonim and I spoke to the Bollenders. My neighbor has also bothered to speak to some Rabbonim about the conflict. He has also spokent to LG about it and has gained some of his investigative knowledge.

So instead of answering my questions, which you don't seem to be able to answer, you decided to spin things around to try to make me look foolish and put me on the defensive. Well here I am. If you choose to delete my comments, I can't stop you, it will only prove that you are biased, if you choose to print it, I will have the same rights as others.

I am obviously hitting a sore spot, if you prove me wrong then fine, I would rather be happy than be right. But I don't believe that I am wrong at this juncture. I believe the Rabbonim were right in finding a solution to this mess and I for one appreciate the effort that they made. If you choose not to believe me, it is your choice to do so. But you can also choose to find out the truth for yourself and ask your own RAV. If he doesn't answer you, ask another RAV. If no one answers you, then find out why not.

If there was no truth to what I am telling you, they would come straight out and tell you that it is the most ridiculous thing they have ever heard. The reason they are not saying this is because they are honest individuals and do not wish to lie.

5:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What happens on December 7?

5:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

can somebody tell me what agreement the rabbanim put forward and how RYE responded to it. Thank you

5:24 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


I have not said one unkind or disrespectful word to any RAV in this community on this thread, and again you can go all the way to the top of these posts to double check.


Except that you have about Rav Eisen. Where do you draw the line as to what constitutes a "Rav in our community"? Zip code? If the Vaad supports RYE, then disparaging him is essentially not supoorting the Vaad.

5:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Without saying too much, the agreement stipulates that GG has to sell off a portion of the store for a "determined percentage" and there is also a "consequence" which I am not going to disclose that they have agreed upon for one of the members of the family.

RYE is demanding tht GG sell off more than double the percentage that the RABBONIM asked and agreed upon and that all the money be put on the table "UP FRONT".

Now here is the problem.

1. RYE does not have the right to go over the RABBONIM's heads on this and DEMAND anything of the RABBONIM nor does he have a right NOT to comply with their wishes. To further aggrevate the situation, his demand to more than double their ruling is sheer unadulterated CHUTZPAH. This has given reason and cause for the RABBONIM to review the entire situation from the get go and see if the GG family had a valid complaint to begin with and if RYE was being spiteful and unreasonable all along where they were concerned, as he is currently displaying.

2. The fact that the RABBONIM are showing a clear understanding of the community's need to end this chilul Hashem and this suffering that we all seem to feel is effecting us, and RYE is not choosing to understand the needs of the community, is also an issue that the RABBONIM and the community have to seriously look at to decide if he is the type of person that can be respected in a leadership position for this particular community.

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can anyone explain why RYE is not listening to the RABBONIM?

5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No blind faith maybe we would believe that the anonymous comments arent all from you if you wouldnt be the only person here who keeps capitalizing the same words again and again.

(VAAD, RYE, RABBONIM)

5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe you are smarter than me, or you are a private detective, but if I agree with someone I might choose to copy them. And by the way the VAAD is actually listed that way on all their teudot! Do you ever check before entering a store? And NBF wasn't the only one to refer to Eisen as RYE.

But believe what you want, attacking NBF is just an attempt to try to take the heat off the real issue, I still want an answer whether I capitalize it or not. Why is he, HE, rye, RYE, eisen, EISEN, Rabbi Eisen, whatever, why hasn't he complied with the wishes of the Rabbonim, RABBONIM?

Answer that question no matter who you think I am!

5:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who says he hasnt cooperated? your stupid intelligence? are YOU a private investigator? I'll believe this part of the story when I hear it from someone besides a commenter who makes it pretty clear he has a vendetta.

5:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone know who "no blind faith" is?

One of the owners?
One of their attorneys?

6:01 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

who says he hasnt cooperated? your stupid intelligence? are YOU a private investigator? I'll believe this part of the story when I hear it from someone besides a commenter who makes it pretty clear he has a vendetta.

No I am not one of the owners nor one of the attorneys. I already told you who I am. I am a concerned community member who bothered to go in and ask questions. Any of you could have done the same. Just because you didn't and you didn't gather as much information as I did, does not give you the right to accuse me of having a vendetta. Once again, you are trying to keep moving away from the question and the real issue. It is not about me. I have no vested interest and nothing else but Yashrus where other Jews are concerned. As I already said I am second generation survivor and I have the survivor's instinct in me.

The only connection I have with the Bolenders would be that, our parents walked throught the fire and came out alive, and we and our children and grandchildren are the nekamah on the Nazis. That would be it.

So what is it going to be, are we going to now try to make this about me? Or are we really going to try to do what's best for the community. The truth is coming out and will continue to come out. I have no doubt about it, and it matters little whether you believe me or not, because the Rabbonim will be disclosing things very shortly.

They will have to act on what has been transpiring the past two weeks. Larry Gordon, has been investigating. He knows everything that I have told you, so does the third party in the negotiations who is ready to step in. Things have a way of coming out and they will. I am only asking why those who were screaming that we support the Rabbonim before are not doing that now?

Attacking me is not going to change that. Each time you are going to do that I or someone else is going to bring the discussion back on track. Whether you agree with GG or not, whether you are willing to give them some benefit of the doubt or not, whether you agree with the Rabbonim right now or not.

So I can ask the same question, is it RYE who is knocking me on this blog or his attorney?

6:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
So I can ask the same question, is it RYE who is knocking me on this blog or his attorney?"

i just saw rye walking out of an inspection at Cho-Sen so it cant be him.

6:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So I can ask the same question, is it RYE who is knocking me on this blog or his attorney?"

Why would you think rabbi eisen would care to knock you? Why would you think he would give you the time of day any more than the commenters here?

Any why don't you care that you've been asked (by the hostess and others) to temper your biased diatribe? You just keep on thumbing your nose at everyone and carrying on like you're the only one with the facts and everyone else is off base? (Then again, the nose-thumbing habit seems somewhat reminiscent of some of the individuals at the root of these issues.)

6:53 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Why is it that I have been chosen as the subject rather than the issues?

Interesting. As far as hostess is concerned, I honestly felt that she was biased in the other direction and asked her to reread the JP article and the interview given by Snitow and see if she wasn't reading something into it that wasn't there.

I am very sadenned to see that Yiddin who do not bother picking up the phone to either ask the family in question, nor to ask some of the Rebbeim in question what is really going on, would Judge them and then Judge me in the process as well because I did try and still am trying to research and find out the facts.

I can't believe that you would rather stab blindly and judgmentally than even try to uncover the truth for yourselves. I am not offended that you don't believe or trust me. However I am sincerely offendended that none of you not even the hostess has bothered to speak to the Bolender family, or the Mashgichim that worked in the store, (there is a letter from Rabbi Lerner, which anyone can call him to verify), or Rabbi Pincus, or Rabbi Lefkowitz who works across the street, or even to discuss this with your own Rabbonim.

This is hurtful to me, and this is a result of this whole incident. You would rather accuse others of lying and being deceitful than going out and unconvering or discovering the truth for youself, no matter what that truth might be.

Prove me wrong, or prove me right, but go out and do something for yourselves in stead of just judging me.

8:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's a letter from every community-minded rabbi in the 5 Towns saying that states their position and the position of the vaad.

Why would anyone in their right mind give credence to your anti-vaad commentary?

8:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was at GG at 5:30 this evening .there were at most twenty people shopping.the ladies in the store were all of the pants wearing variety.The notion that people are flocking back is pure baloney.

9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can someone post the JP article i missed it and i would to see it.

9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so what's wrong with pants?

Everyone wears them to/from the gym

9:46 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Why would anyone in their right mind give credence to your anti-vaad commentary?


Actually I'm trying to be very polite but I am getting really tired of this nonsense. I am not anti VAAD. The VAAD is made up of the RABBONIM in the community who have are now working to put an end to the conflict. DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH READING COMPREHENSION, ENGLISH OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN TRYING TO CONFUSE EVERYONE AND THROW THE ISSUE BACK TO MAKE IT LOOK AS IF I AM CAUSING THE PROBLEM.

GROW UP AND STOP TRYING TO OVERSHADOW THE ISSUE.

I AM NOT ANTI-VAAD!!!!! THE VAAD = the RABBONIM in the community who put it together and serve on the board. RYE = an employee the VAAD hired to run it period!

10:55 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

I was at GG at 5:30 this evening .there were at most twenty people shopping.the ladies in the store were all of the pants wearing variety.The notion that people are flocking back is pure baloney.

I hope the men were wearing pants too!!!

You are so full of rhetoric on top of your judgmental attitude it is ridiculous. No one said that people were flocking back, but they are showing support and coming back at a healthy rate. If you want an honest perspective hang around for more than just 10 minutes or whatever.

Now everyone shops when you do. But what the heck, go online and watch the cameras if you have nothing better to do. Then you can see how many people are in the store, who they are, what they wear, when they shop, what they buy and so on. They aren't hiding anything.

11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is so horrible. People calling each other names. From the FTShul list we see a neighborhood of Ahavas Achim and Ahavas Yisroel, then we come to this blog and we see viciousness and disgust.

Why can't you just stick to the issues and the facts. We know as Jews that if we have a question we can go to the Torah to find an answer. And in this case there are also answers. There are peoople that have answers and like mentioned above, if anyone really cares to know the truth, they should ask questions from the parties involved.

11:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THIS POSTED IN ANOTHER BLOG AREA AND I THOUGHT I'D SHARE IT HERE.

Sadly I fear our Rabbis no not much about the technical side of the food business. Are our Rabbis aware that Rabbi Yosef Eisen [RYE]( I use the term Rabbi because he does have semicha and I have Kavod Hatorah though I do not respect him) also has no knowledge of the technical side of the food business.

Thats right my friends he has never worked in a kitchen as a Mashgiach !!! Ask him I can not tell you if he might have been a waiter in camp at age 15 , but as a Mashgiach he has never been employed in a kitchen or food factory.

So you may ask how did he get to be an administrator for the Orthodox Union , then Kehilla Kashruth, then ( while he is still working for Kehilla Kashruth) The Vaad of the 5 Towns.

This I am attempting to discern and do have a conversation scheduled with someone who knows him from a ways back who promises to enlighten me.
SECOND POST
The scoop continues , Yosef Eisen was a star pupil of Rav Belsky in Torah Vodaath in brooklyn. Rav Belsky was a posek for the O.U. , Wanting to "help" make the O.U. much more O than U or me he brought in the newly minted R Yosef Eisen.

Eisen made himself a name running after vegetables and there bugs, at the expense of the store mashgiachs, instead of as one former restaurant employee put it, " having the owners by slightly better quality produce".

The store mashgiach in this particular restaurant was so busy checking, washing, and even chopping the inferior grade vegetables for salads and the like. That "he wasn't also able to always check that the workers didn't light the fires or ovens and bring in their own non-kosher food when they ran out for a snack or a cigarette"

11:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I AM NOT ANTI-VAAD!!!!! THE VAAD = the RABBONIM in the community who put it together and serve on the board. RYE = an employee the VAAD hired to run it period!

You've been critical of RYE and the VAAD ever since all of the rabbonim in the community unanimously endorsed the vaad's actions. So trying to separate them at this point doesn't really negate what you've previously said.

Either way, it's obvious you have much more of an agenda and a vendetta than anyone else who posts here. I come here for objective dialogue but all I get to read about here is you and a couple of other RYE-haters coming up with any possible reason to discount the vaad's position and bolster Bolender's. I don't know RYE or Bolender and I don't profess to know the minutae of these circumstances, but I find it hard to accept the story the way you sell it, and with all of your propaganda here, it's become tedious scrolling through this comment thread for objective dialogue.

12:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now everyone shops when you do. But what the heck, go online and watch the cameras if you have nothing better to do.

Where are the cameras online?

12:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it seems to me, as someone who is somewhat privy to all the machinations, that the only one who knows anything about the real situation is being bashed repeatedly. I am not at liberty to disclose anymore insights, however, the community will certainly owe no blind faith an apology when all comes to light.

8:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

for being the most disengenuous commenter in history?

11:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where are the cameras online?


I believe that GG has its website posted right on the front door of the store.

11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

for being the most disengenuous commenter in history?

Maybe for being the most honest, or for at least investigating and looking for answers.

11:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aren't Jews supposed to ask questions? Isn't that how we were brought up to ask questions and LOOK for answers?

11:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe that GG has its website posted right on the front door of the store.

Is this another "no blind faith" fabrication?

What's the website?

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

apparently it's a closely kept secret

11:21 AM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

"You've been critical of RYE and the VAAD ever since all of the rabbonim in the community unanimously endorsed the vaad's actions. So trying to separate them at this point doesn't really negate what you've previously said.

Either way, it's obvious you have much more of an agenda and a vendetta than anyone else who posts here."

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. However, I have expressed my appreciation to the Rabbonim of the community who comprise the VAAD when they got together to review the situation and came to the conclusion that their was another solution available.

It restored my faith and confidence in them it also showed me who the VAAD actually represents and that is the Community Rabbonim that made a definite distinction in my mind. I now know that when I speak of the VAAD, I speak of the group of Rabbonim that are on the VAAD and right now they are the ones that are trying to settle the matter. RYE is not part of that group, he stands alone in his opinion and that is why I separate him out of the VAAD.

My opinions of RYE have to do with MY OWN conversation with him, and by the information I have gathered in my research of the situation. You have stated in your comments that you do not know much on the situation and you are simply judging me, by what you do not like about me in my posts, mostly in what I have written in my earlier post when I was completely blown out of the water by the immediate and painful response of the VAAD in support of RYE's position.

At this juncture the Rabbonim who represent the VAAD have shifted positions. You may choose to believe me or not, which means nothing to me, because if you do not wish to make the effort to speak to your own RAV to find out the absolute truth, you yourself do not want to be a peace parnter in this mess, and you wish only to judge me along with the Bolenders.

If you choose to stand behind RYE whether he is right in this matter or not that is your choice. His fate right now is in the hands of his employers. They will decide if he belongs in this community right now and not I. I have no say other than my own opinion on the matter. We each have only our own opinion and the power of numbers and how we use it to inform our Rabbonim how we each feel.

That may have an effect on their decision or not. This will not go on forever and the truth should come out within a week or two. At that time you can either call me a liar or someone that was blinded by my own need to believe and trust in what I was told, or you can call me a Defender of truth.

In the end it doesn't really matter what you think of me, because I don't have anything to gain or lose in all of this. I am not running for political office, I don't make any money off of this. I don't have a bet in the pool, I have nothing to gain or lose. I am only a Frum Jew who hates machlokis and is trying to do the right thing by standing up for people who I feel are being wronged and that is it.

If it was you who were being wronged, and I have no idea who you are, I would stand up for you as well simply because you are my fellow Jew.

11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the website with the cameras is still as secret?

11:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the website with the cameras is still as secret?

11:35 AM

No, go to the store and you will see it posted on the door. If I go to the store I will check it out for you myself. Is that OK? I thought you were an adult.

11:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's nothing posted about a website. Is this all a joke?

2:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, they had the same feed that was running into the VAAD office hooked up to a website, it was posted on the door of the store. I don't know what happened to it, but they had also mentioned it in the Jewish Star article.

4:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The word around town is that RYE gave a 5:00 deadline to accept his proposal. I wonder how the Rabbonim feel about that.

4:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what Proposal is this??

5:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand that he'll only certify the store if they sell it to him for $1

5:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and he's demanded exclusive rights to the "store-cam" which may or may not even exist

6:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Laugh all you want and make all the fun you want. The truth will eventually come out.

7:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RYE published a sefer of sorts on kashering when he worked for the orthodox union. I was told by a few current orthodox union employees that in this sefer which basically is a koshering guide. RYE says when you cover the open flames of a gas range that is burning at full heat , so that you will contain the heat and kosher the stovetop, that YOU SHOULD PUT THE SHINY SIDE OF THE FOIL DOWN!!

Any scientists out there care to comment? Anyone have a copy of the sefer they can scan and post?

Love to see this one. Written by a guy who himself never was a kitchen/food mashgiach of any kind before he started for the orthodox union.

8:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. Te mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?

8:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about the mashgiach who covered all the surfaces of my granite counter tops but left all MY sinks uncovered so that the goyim could throw fleishigs into my milchig or pareve sinks. What kind of Mashgiach is that?

I told him I didn't trust him in my kitchen!!!!

9:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where's the website with the cameras?

12:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know call the store.

12:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's no website - it's just one of the options the store was considering in response to the vaad's games.

1:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone should be anti-vaad. This story just shows how much of a mafia it has become. Its all about dollars and cents. I would not be suprised if it comes out that the Vaad will only approve someone who gives them a kickback. I grew up in the 5 Towns and I am embarrased by what it has become.

12:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Everyone should be anti-vaad. This story just shows how much of a mafia it has become. Its all about dollars and cents. I would not be suprised if it comes out that the Vaad will only approve someone who gives them a kickback. I grew up in the 5 Towns and I am embarrased by what it has become."



I believe that this is exactly what is going on... I also personally know two of the past mashgiachim that were asked to "say other than the truth" by the Vaad representative. They were summarily fired when they refused.... This is worse than the mafia.. this is Yid against Yid. I, too, am embarrassed by the actions taken by the Vaad. They are being compared to the Mafia with good reason. I think when all is revealed ( soon, I hope) the good people of this community will vote to no longer financially support the Vaad and their actions. Money talks.

1:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are RYE's days in our beautiful 5t numbered?? I sincerely hope so, he is a cancer on this fine community and needs to be excised.

4:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AFTER ALL I HAVE READ IN THE NEWSPAPERS, BLOGS,AFTER SHABBOS STROLLS, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE VAAD'S OPPOSITION TO ANOTHER HECHSER HAS MORE TO DO WITH POWER THAN WITH KASHRUS. EVEN RABBINIC MONOPOLIES SHOULD NOT EXIST. POWER HAS GONE TO THE "HEADS" OF THE VAAD. TO TRY TO CONTROL ANY BUSINESS ( OTHER THAN KASHRUS ISSUES) IS WAY BEYOND THEIR SCOPE.

8:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. Te mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?

8:20 PM


Anonymous said...
How about the mashgiach who covered all the surfaces of my granite counter tops but left all MY sinks uncovered so that the goyim could throw fleishigs into my milchig or pareve sinks. What kind of Mashgiach is that?

I told him I didn't trust him in my kitchen!!!!

HOW ABOUT the Mashgiach who worked for Kehilla Kashrus Organization in brooklyn, which did go against the Vaad of flatbush and start selling a second hashgacha that was advertised by the stores.

I heard this story from 2 people, this Mashgiach was threatened and eventually let go on a technicality after catching and reporting a Kehilla certified caterer being Mechalel Shabbat on the party with food to be served at the party.

1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HOW ABOUT the Mashgiach who worked for Kehilla Kashrus Organization in brooklyn, which did go against the Vaad of flatbush and start selling a second hashgacha that was advertised by the stores.

I heard this story from 2 people, this Mashgiach was threatened and eventually let go on a technicality after catching and reporting a Kehilla certified caterer being Mechalel Shabbat on the party with food to be served at the party.

1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the main figures behind the Kehila Kashruth in Brooklyn, who is a hired (paid) employee of Kehila is none other then our revered RYE. Can you people who checked out the status (990 etc) of our Vaad please check out Kehilla in brooklyn as well?

1:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

STILL INTERESTED IN WHETHER THE VAAD IS A NOT FOR PROFIT ORG? HAHAHA... CONTACT THE IRS AND ASK FOR A 5500 REPORT.. I AM TOLD THAT THIS WOULD PROVIDE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER AS TO WHERE ALL OUR DUES MONIES AND STORE FEES ARE GOING.

5:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Lady with the now treif sink :

I'm sure the Vaad will send the Mashgiach back and for 400.oo will Kasher it for you !

I heard an even more interesting tidbit on a a mashgiach at a hotel weekend of course supervised by our great Vaad. I'm just hesitating to mention it here.

8:42 AM  
Anonymous SAD JEW said...

How is RYE an employee of another Kashruth agency when he works for us . Firstly there may be some conflict of interest issues. The Star K which is also a community Vaad would never let an Fuul Time as well as Executive level employee work elsewhere. How do we know he is not steering business towards them. Also he is not easily found in the office or reached by mobile phone. Is this because he is spending some of our time in his community in brooklyn ?

Do any of OUR Rabbis ( admit to)read this blog? I would love an answer or possibly an open townhall style meeting where these issues can be raised.

I know it is convenient for our Rabbis to let RYE handle these things for them. however if they are being mishandled or not handled at all, let us let RYE gracefully resign. We can search the US and Canada for a smart savvy Rabbinic Administrator (with food service experience, which RYE has not). This administrator would need to move to our community and shop and educate his children here. Do you not think this is a finer scenario?

Would any Rabbi care to respond so we can discuss this further ?

8:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

rye will not resign, gracefully or otherwise. why would he voluntarily leave a $160,000 post of total power? he controls the vaad rabbonim not the other way around.. once again, when the truth comes out..i hope the vaad will even survive the fallout.

3:33 PM  
Anonymous sad jew said...

Can you actually confirm the amount of 160,000 ?

I had heard it was a paltry 120,000.

By the way any lawyers out there no if we as members of our respective shuls can have a no confidence vote in the officers of the Vaad ? We can dismiss them and get rid of "Big Dough Joe"

12:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Rabbi Weiner is a musmach of Chaim Berlin and heads a Brooklyn organization that checks kashrut.
His brother is a rosh yeshiva of Torah and Science in Israel and his uncle was a rosh yeshiva of Chevron yeshiva.
While I know nothing about Rabbi Weiner's credentials, one has to wonder how he or Rabbi Kravitz rationalize endorsing this store's kashrus without having conferred with the Vaad, when they know that there have been kashrus issues raised.
My sense is that their actions are no different than those of many brooklyn kashrus agencies which regularly swoop in to replace certifications that have been removed by other agencies as a result of kashrus violations, without properly investigating the reasons for the removal of the previous certification. Kashrus is a cutthroat business and its unfortunately too common for some rabbis to offer their certification without proper investigation of the issues.

3:12 PM

OH YOU MEAN LIKE WHEN THE STAR K WHICH IS A NATIONAL HASHGACHA LIKE THE KOF-K TOOK OVER THE HASHGACHA OF CAFE K IN BROOKLYN AFTER IT WAS DROPPED BY THE O.K. ALSO A NATIONAL HASHGACHA. ITS NOT BROOKLYN ITS WORLDWIDE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GARBAGE!

OR WHEN THE KOF-K TOOK OVER BLUE RIDGE FARMS FROM THE O.U.

BOTH THESE PLACES HAD KASHRUS VIOLATIONS. YOU ARE RIGHT THEY ARE IN BUSINESS AS IS OUR FEARLESS LEADER YOSEF EISEN.

NOTE TO THE GENTLEMEN WHO POSTED THIS , EVEN ONE OF POOR INTELLECT CAN ASK A SHAILOH IF THE VAAD IS STILL CERTIFYING GG THEN WHAT ""MAJOR"" KASHRUS VIOLATIONS COULD THERE BE THAT NEED DISCUSSING.

SEE MY POINT YOU ARE SOLELY IN RYE'S CAMP , SO IT CLOUDS YOUR JUDGEMENT.

GOOD SHABBOS

12:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did I mention the owner of Blue Ridge Farms ( A reform jew) pulled a gun out at the Mashgiach. I wonder if that wa sa contract violation ? Does Bolender own a gun? Maybe thats what i'll get him for Chanukah.

12:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RYE published a sefer of sorts on kashering when he worked for the orthodox union. I was told by a few current orthodox union employees that in this sefer which basically is a koshering guide. RYE says when you cover the open flames of a gas range that is burning at full heat , so that you will contain the heat and kosher the stovetop, that YOU SHOULD PUT THE SHINY SIDE OF THE FOIL DOWN!!
This when we are dealing with over a 1000 degrees where the foil melts rather quickly and the minute degree or two of reflection are inconsiquential.

Any scientists out there care to comment? Anyone have a copy of the sefer they can scan and post?

Love to see this one. Written by a guy who himself never was a kitchen/food mashgiach of any kind before he started for the orthodox union.

12:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"sad jew said...
Can you actually confirm the amount of 160,000 ?

I had heard it was a paltry 120,000.

By the way any lawyers out there no if we as members of our respective shuls can have a no confidence vote in the officers of the Vaad ? We can dismiss them and get rid of "Big Dough Joe"

12:17 AM

If the Vaad is a not-for-profit as they claim to be, then we all should be able to get audited annual reports from them. Any IRS agents out there wish to comment???

9:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the 5 towns is going down the drain if you ask me.

I'm still waiting for any Rabbi to make a second announcement.

12:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. The mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?

1:03 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home