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Tuesday, December 26, 2006

Breaking News: Gourmet Glatt Sale

Major scoop from tomorrow's Jewish Star, which seems to be making itself the go-to place for all the local Jewish news:

Gourmet Glatt Being Sold

By Mayer Fertig

The white knight lives in Borough Park. He is an investor named Chezky Kaufthiel, leading a group that is now in the process of becoming the new owners of Gourmet Glatt. The Bolender family has sold its entire interest in the store, which their parents founded.

The sale is expected to herald the return to Gourmet Glatt of many, many customers who have stayed away since late October, heeding the directive of their rabbonim. The boycott followed the removal of the hashgacha of the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Far Rockaway.

Rabbi Simcha Lefkowitz of Congregation Anshei Chesed in Hewlett, and a member of the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Far Rockaway, confirmed that, "the Vaad is returning it's hashgacha, and everyone should be free to shop there, in all the departments, including meat."

Rabbi Yosef Eisen, the rabbinic administrator of the Vaad,said, " Mr. Kaufthiel and his group have an interest in concluding this deal ASAP. All parties have been working closely together. We're walking toward the chupah right now. The conclusion is, b'ezras Hashem, going to take place in the not so distant future.

Through his attorney, Paul Sod of Lawrence, Kaufthiel confirmed he is the buyer and said, "We are interested in bringing Gourmet Glatt to a point where it is the premier supermarket in relation to quality, service, value and kashrus." Other members of the group were not identified. Paul Sod, and his counterpart, Alexander Novack, representing the Bolenders in the sale, said they did not know who else is part of the group. They called Kaufthiel "a facilitator" who's "been in the lead in the efforts to resolve this unfortunate mess, but it's not clear what role he'll play" ultimately.

Novack said, "all the sellers are very happy with this resolution of what has been a very difficult couple of months and hope for the continued success of Gourmet Glatt."

... Virtually every Orthodox rabbi in the Five Towns and Far Rockaway is a member of the Vaad, which is led by Rabbi Eisen. Together, they made an emergency decision to remove the hashgacha from Gourmet Glatt in late October after Rabbi Yehudah Kravitz was retained to provide a second hechsher. At that time the Vaad had recently advised Mark Bolender and his siblings to sell the business prior to the permanent removal of the hashgacha in four months time. This followed an incident where several brands of kosher Cornish hens were mislabeled and a long string of other run-ins between Mark Bolender and the Vaad.

Rabbi Kravitz declined to comment when he was contacted on Tuesday.

Two members of the Bolender family, Chaim and Andrea, will remain at Gourmet Glatt to help with the transition, and possibly longer. They will be salaried employees of the new owners. Mark Bolender's relationship with the store will end with the sale.

... "The community will hopefully find this to be a very positive outcome to a very difficult experience," said Rabbi Kenneth Hain of Lawrence's Cong. Beth Shalom. "Due to some hard work and responsible efforts by all parties I expect that this will result in not only a quality establishment under the highest of kashruth standards, but also in competition that will be of benefit to kosher consumers."

One of the attorneys, Alexander Novack, said the deal was structured with care taken to be sure it would easily lead to a resumption of supervision by the Vaad Hakashrus. "A number of rabbonim who have made themselves available on Sunday nights, and holidays," he said, "have been very accommodating." He singled out for credit Rabbi Eisen, whom he said had made himself available for consultation on a number of recent Sundays.
If you would like to read the rest of the story, the newspaper should be on the streets by tomorrow afternoon.

227 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

MAZEL TOV MAZEL TOV
MEKIDASHES

AND MAZEL TOV FOR BOTH MACHATUNIM THE BOLANDERS AND THE KAFTHEILS
MAY THEY SEE LOTS OF NACHAS FROM EACH OTHER AND LET THEM BE ZOCHE TO BUILD A BAYIS NAMEN BEYISROEL
AMAN

6:57 PM  
Blogger DAG said...

wow...maybe some big sale to get people back?

6:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...no other kosher butchers in the five towns"
Yeah right. I didn't grow up in Far Rockaway by just eating tuna fish in the 1960's-1970's. I'm not negating the contribution they made but they were not the only ones. Anyone remember Sam's Pizza, Sara's bakery, Mr. Isaacs and Mr. Rubenstein , Carmels? I'm happy this is being resolved. I hope that all the principal parties involved will be at peace. Let the healing begin. It's about time.

7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its sad that the Vaad forced the family to sell a store that has been in their family for a generation. The Vaad is nothing but a mafia that uses its force to bully people around.

I am sickened by the way the 5 Towns has reacted to this situation. I am embarrassed to say that I grew up in the 5 Towns.

7:29 PM  
Blogger DAG said...

A few questions about a Boro Park GG....

1) Will they import rude people from Brooklyn to shop?
2) Will shoppers need to learn Yiddish...or will Yinglish suffice?
3) Will the perquisite dirt be imported from Boro Park?
4) Is there a market for Chassidishe Shechita in the 5 towns?
5) Do we have enough 80 year old women in the 5 towns to work the deli and continually ask, "what else?"
6) Will sales tax become optional?
7) Will they open a lingerie shop?
8) Will they add a stroller parking lot for strollers and babies?

7:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, you all have Gourmet Glatt back under the Vaad, and Rabbi Kravitz will be gone and so will the Bolenders.

What I have to wonder is how many of you will refuse to shop there in support of the Bolenders.

The Vaad called a boycott of the Bolenders, now if it is sold to someone else we must boycott the new owners. Let's make sure that no matter who they are, no matter how honest they are, no matter how frum they are, no matter how well they run Gourmet Glatt that they never make one penny of profit by kicking out the rightful owners.

We should have a flag made with a picture of an Empire Chicken label with a circle and a slash through it and the slogan Remember the Bolenders!!!

By this time next month no one will even care.

8:08 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

It's good that this story is finally coming to an end, and even better that the Vaad clearly won and will be strengthened as a result. Kudos to the 5TFR community for backing up their Rabbonim and creating a Kiddush Hashem.

8:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I inderstand the real story...tow bolenders will remain... one decided to retire early since she was so disgusted over the treatment by the rabbonim over lies and misrepresentations by RYE. The other bolender was forced out by the vaad because he spoke the truth and had the chutzpah to challenge RYE. Two bolenders are still better than none since the store they all ran was immaculate, pleasant to shop in and a benefit to the commmunity. The cashiers should remain, as they are a standout group when compared to their counterparts at supersol and brachs.

I am very happy they are getting the hechser back on thurs., however..my opinions of our esteemed rabbonim has been tainted forever.

8:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RYE GOT HIS WISH. NOW WE ARE STUCK WITH HIM.

THIS SUCKS

8:32 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

RYE GOT HIS WISH. NOW WE ARE STUCK WITH HIM.

THIS SUCKS


You say it sucks. I say it's great. A man with a history of "a long string of run-ins with the vaad" no longer has any say over how the store's Kashrut is handled. I personally think Rav Eisen did his job beautifully.

8:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look at the writing on the wall Rye will be gone soon also.

8:44 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...



Its sad that the Vaad forced the family to sell a store that has been in their family for a generation. The Vaad is nothing but a mafia that uses its force to bully people around.


The Vaad didn't "force" anyone to sell. The Vaad decided that they could no longer give the store hechsher and allow a man they did not trust to run the day-to-day operations of the store. So they made a demand: Sell and get off the floor of the store, or we can no longer provide our Hechsher. Gourmet Glatt decided they didn't need the Vaad hechsher, and decided to give it a go with another hechsher. The Vaad at that point had no say as to whether or not the store had to be sold, and GG could have gone on under the Kravitz hechsher indefinitely. Unfortunately, however, the Bolender's choice didn't pan out for them. Such is life. So here we are. Am I supposed to be somehow upset that the Vaad members, a large and diverse group of community rabbis, decided that someone who they felt was unable to keep the Kashrut levels of the store up to snuff should no longer have a hands-on relationship with my meat supply? Honestly, I'm not. I'm glad to see that the standards are being so carefully considered.

8:45 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Look at the writing on the wall Rye will be gone soon also.


The only writing that indicates such a thing are from the anonymous commenter(s) who somehow thought that discrediting Rav Eisen would save Gourmet Glatt. Neither of those objectives came to pass.

8:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remember the Rabbi's who told the members of there shuls not to leave Germany-- Remember how those members along with the wonderful Rabbi went in cattle cars to the gas chambers... Victory? Rabbi Eisen, strong leader? I believe history will write a different ending....... Shame on Five Towns for standing by and doing nothing...

8:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to mom of 4 .. I would expect to see some changes in the vaad with regard to RYE.. his personal agenda prevailed ( this time). However, the community uproar has taken its toll. Many of us no longer fully trust our rabbis. Many of us are slowly realizing that the vaad does not thoroughly research anything before issuing psaks. that should not sit well with the more educated of us in the community who look to our Ravs for guidance.

9:00 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

However, the community uproar has taken its toll.

The community uproar? I don't know which community you are talking about, but I don't feel that the community asserted anything here aside from their overwhelming trust in the Vaad and Rabbi Eisen. If the community had been so outraged and doubtful of their Rabbanim, they would have kept on shopping in GG, and we wouldn't be discussing a sale right now.

9:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon of 9pm
You must not have had much trust in your rabbis going into this thing either.

9:05 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Remember the Rabbi's who told the members of there shuls not to leave Germany-- Remember how those members along with the wonderful Rabbi went in cattle cars to the gas chambers... Victory? Rabbi Eisen, strong leader? I believe history will write a different ending....... Shame on Five Towns for standing by and doing nothing...


Shame on you for comparing a case of the community's spiritual leaders asserting a high standard of Kashrut on the holocaust. Talk about the art of overstatement.

9:06 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"Remember the Rabbi's who told the members of there shuls not to leave Germany-- Remember how those members along with the wonderful Rabbi went in cattle cars to the gas chambers... "

Not only are you rooting for the wrong team, you're using the wrong arguments. In any online debate, the first side to invoke Nazis loses. Good Bye.

9:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Many of us are slowly realizing that the vaad does not thoroughly research anything before issuing psaks. that should not sit well with the more educated of us in the community who look to our Ravs for guidance."

speak for yourself. i trust that my rav thoroughly researched this. i also will continue to look to my rav for guidance. i think this affair was unfortunate, but i do not blame the vaad for it.

9:08 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Not only are you rooting for the wrong team, you're using the wrong arguments. In any online debate, the first side to invoke Nazis loses. Good Bye.


SW, allow me to say that you're brilliant today.

9:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You say it sucks. I say it's great. A man with a history of "a long string of run-ins with the vaad" no longer has any say over how the store's Kashrut is handled. I personally think Rav Eisen did his job beautifully. "

8:35 PM

I assume you actually read the so-called "long string of run-ins" or did you just accept what RYE had to say. I know you fall into the latter category because NO ONE was ever shown the so called list of manufactured violations. It is obvious no one ever spoke to the actual mashgiach placed by the vaad into GG. Then the truth would have been out there instead of slanderous comments.

9:09 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

This sad saga stinks. Only because of how everything played out.

Yet, the one overriding positive is that once the sale goes through....R' Kravitz is history.

...which is a lesson to the next interloping, money grubbing, opportunist who tries to wreck the symbiosis of 5 Towns kashrus for personal gain.

9:11 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"SW, allow me to say that you're brilliant today."

Now ask me how much work I got done today...

9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hip Hip Hooray for Orthomom! I'm not sure why the vast majority of the community was quiet.I don't think any of us will ever know the real deal with what on. But it looks like "the truth will out". Right before the BIG NEWS broke GG was still telling their supporters that nothing was happening. That was their right. Why sour a deal that was going to go through and be to their benefit. Did politics play a role? Probably. The red and blue states have nothing on shul and yeshiva politics. We are a people that like to debate and argue. But know this. GG gambled and it did not work. I don't say they lost because I don't know what they made on their deal. it's not important to me. What is important is that once the hechsher is back I don't care who owns it. I will trust the kashrut level of the store and shop there once again. Rav Eisin has a wonderful reputation in kashrut in spite of all that you saw written on these blogs. There are B"H enough people here to make a choice and shop where they want. Kudos to Supersol for stepping up to the plate. Their meat department improved immensely during this time and they were never snotty about all the new customers. The guys who work there are really nice. But there's nothing like competition and with the hechsher back I hope that everybody's prices go down.

9:17 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

Anon 8:56 - Ah yes, because the Five Towns community, instead of listening to their united Rabbinic leadership, should have followed the example of all of those holy and sacred communities in Jewish history who we respect and revere to this day for their brave rejection of their Torah leaders. Why rejecting the decisions and questioning the motives of our Rabbonim is a hoary Jewish tradition that goes back to the Dor Hamidbar!

{/sarcasm}

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the symbiosis of the 5t"-what a crock! Orthomom-do you sleep with Mayer Fertig-is that how you get your info? I hope you are enjoying your purchases from Brachs and Supersol-as a kosher inspector for the USDA-and a 5t resident-I wouldn't let my dog eat from either place.

9:23 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Orthomom-do you sleep with Mayer Fertig-is that how you get your info?

You're a classy guy, aren't you.

as a kosher inspector for the USDA-and a 5t resident

Sure you are.

9:26 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"-as a kosher inspector for the USDA-"

I don't believe that you're an inspector for the USDA. I believe you're lying.

9:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i know who this individual is and HE really is a kosher inspector!!!

9:30 PM  
Blogger Tzvee said...

What a hoot! Gourmet Glatt is the best oxymoron of the last 100 years. Who in their right minds would care for one second about this?

9:31 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

I wouldn't let my (hypothetical) dog eat meat from Brachs or Supersol either - that'd cost a small fortune!

9:33 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

i know who this individual is and HE really is a kosher inspector!!!



An anonymous commenter lurking just at the right time to vouch for the credibility of another anonymous commenter. This is getting silly. If you want us to believe that you are two different people, at least do it right and pick two separate aliases.

9:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom-do you sleep with Mayer Fertig-is that how you get your info?

You're a classy guy, aren't you.

as a kosher inspector for the USDA-and a 5t resident

Sure you are.

By the way,I am a Far Rockaway resident. The only thing you and your rabbi's did was make my job more harder. In ALL THE YEARS I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH G.G. ITS MANAGEMENT.I WILL SAY I HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH ITS COMPETITORS.... OR DID THE RAV COVER IT UP? THIS VAAD SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED... TOTALLY DISGUSTED

9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


By the way,I am a Far Rockaway resident. The only thing you and your rabbi's did was make my job more harder. In ALL THE YEARS I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH G.G. ITS MANAGEMENT.I WILL SAY I HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH ITS COMPETITORS.... OR DID THE RAV COVER IT UP? THIS VAAD SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED... TOTALLY DISGUSTED


It's the capslock guy again. Which persona is he in this time?

9:52 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

Not only are you a liar, not only are you a disgusting pig, but now your CAPS key is broken. Sounds like you're having a bad day Mr. I-Wish-I-Was-A-USDA-Inspector.

I'd go to sleep if I were you.

9:53 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

Go figure...he took my advice.

10:21 PM  
Blogger Yid With Lid said...

To the Anonymous saying nasty stuff about Orthomom. You are a gutless coward. I have disagreed with some of the things she has said...but the Jewish way is to disagree without being disagreeable. You are not only nasty but you hide behind anonymity.
Tzvee--people care because people don't like bullies

I would like to point out something in the Star story
"This followed an incident where several brands of kosher Cornish hens were mislabeled and a long string of other run-ins between Mark Bolender and the Vaad."

This is Another example of the Star and/or Vaad loshen hora- rumor mongering that has been going on since this crisis started. None of the other "run ins" have been confirmed with evidence..or by a Vaad Rabbi out in the open..although it has been published before as "inside Vaad sources report"

10:27 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


This is Another example of the Star and/or Vaad loshen hora- rumor mongering that has been going on since this crisis started. None of the other "run ins" have been confirmed with evidence..or by a Vaad Rabbi out in the open..although it has been published before as "inside Vaad sources report"


I'll tell you this. If the Vaad tells me there were incidents (and they did, in their letter to the community, which every Vaad rabbi signed) that compromise their trust of the store owner, I'm willing to accept that they were of a magnitude that precluded their being able to work with said storeowner. You say that NOT giving over details of the run-ins is Loshon Hora. Really? Are you sure about that? The Vaad started negotiations keeping this very quiet. They did not want to disclose any of this. Unfortunately other players in the story made that impossible. Do you really expect that the Vaad has to submit every detail behind their decision for your perusal? If there were a community review of every move the Vaad made, then why put them in charge? We trust that they will make the right decisions - especially in a case like this, when such a diverse group of Rabbis from all walks of Orthodox life come together to agree on something.

10:34 PM  
Blogger Yid With Lid said...

Yes I do...especially when so many in the community question the decision. If Avraham can question Hashem...why cant rabbis be questioned?

10:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think people should think twcie before giving any money to the VAAD. I hope we can start a "donation Boycot" of the VAAD as the did to GG
DO NOT DONATE TO THE VAAD

10:46 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

But Yid, who says that"so many in the community question the decision"? That hasn't been my impression at all. I have spoken to friends in all corners of the neighborhood. Most seem to feel that if the Rabbanim felt that there was such an obstacle to keeping teh store up to snuff, they appreciate the Vaad acting.

The comments on this topic have been about 50/50 - but that's not representative of anything. (Especially, as I've pointed out many times, many of the pro-GG, rabidly anti-Vaad comments have been coming from the same IP). People who have their pulse on the community have reported overall overwhelming trust that the Vaad has handled this properly - even if most also wish that it hadn't been handled with such public rancor.

10:48 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

I think people should think twcie before giving any money to the VAAD. I hope we can start a "donation Boycot" of the VAAD as the did to GG
DO NOT DONATE TO THE VAAD


Mr. Capslock is back.

10:49 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"Mr. Capslock is back."

There must have been some kosher baloney somewhere that he had to go and inspect.

10:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kudos to the 5TFR community for backing up their Rabbonim and creating a Kiddush Hashem.

What Kidush Hashem, this was a HUGE CHILUL HASHEM from the get-go!!

10:58 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

yid with a lid - Last I checked, Avraham did not question Hashem's motives. And in fact he rushed to follow Hashem's commands even when they made absolutely no sense to him, and were in fact contrary to everything he believed was right and good (that whole Akeidas Yitzchok thing).

11:00 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


What Kidush Hashem, this was a HUGE CHILUL HASHEM from the get-go!!


I agree, but not because the Vaad did anything wrong.

11:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I personally think Rav Eisen did his job beautifully.

8:35 PM

Yes Mommy, he is a good boy, he did his job as beautifully as he did in Kosher Spot and in Nathan's. Keep up the good work, Joey boy!

11:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This time the bad guys have won.This sleazy scuzzy vaad needs to be investigated.They are nothing but racketeers and gangsters.
Do not contribute to this band of mafiosi.

11:03 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Yes Mommy, he is a good boy, he did his job as beautifully as he did in Kosher Spot and in Nathan's. Keep up the good work, Joey boy!


It seems that the MO for the commenter who keeps on this (even though the community has clearly spoken) is that when teh going gets tough, and all else fails, trash Rabbi Eisen. Yawn. It's getting old.

11:03 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

anon 10:58 - when the better part of a large and diverse Jewish community is willing to follow the dictates of their rabbonim at a cost and inconvenience to themselves, it shows that we as a community respect and submit to Da'as Torah, which is quite the Kiddush Hashem.

11:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the bottom line is the vaad won, if the communty would really have felt that this was wrong this wouldnt have gotten this far. rabb hain is a very modern fellow who listens to what his congregants have to say. if he feels this is the way to go then i can say i feel justice has been served.

11:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so as of when can we start shopping at gg?

anybody knows?

11:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Am I supposed to be somehow upset that the Vaad members, a large and diverse group of community rabbis, decided that someone who they felt was unable to keep the Kashrut levels of the store up to snuff should no longer have a hands-on relationship with my meat supply?

This was pretty well written. There is, however, one point that you got caught on; it wasn't about kashrus.

11:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thursday

11:13 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


This was pretty well written. There is, however, one point that you got caught on; it wasn't about kashrus.


That's what you say. But I hear otherwise from my Rav. Who do you expect me to trust? My Rav or an anonymous commenter?

11:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

way to go OM!

11:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

does any body know if the hashgacha will resume on thursday?

11:23 PM  
Blogger Yid With Lid said...

but mom 50/50 is a lot for a community that usually supports Rabbinical decisions without any questioning.Beyond that have you read the posts on unkosher kosher.com. What about the people like brave Sherree who is too scared to make a big deal out of things because she is too afraid that people will stop helping her kids. What about the store owners that wanted to speak out but were afraid that they too would lose their Hecksher if they defended GG. Comeon I got those emails and I am an outsider...you must have too.
And the comments..I Haven't posted most of the stuff that I have gotten because of unsubstantiated claims and I won't approve anonymous derogatory comments.

11:31 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

yid with a lid - I don't see how people being afraid to come out publicly against the Vaad is of any importance? Shouldn't people fear negative consequences of taking on and actively opposing the united Rabbinate of the community? Isn't publicly opposing the Rabbonim, like, a bad thing?

11:43 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Yid With Lid said...

but mom 50/50 is a lot for a community that usually supports Rabbinical decisions without any questioning.


The community isn't 50/50 by any stretch of the imagination. The comments here have been, and they are in no way indicative of what the opinion of the community actually is.

All the examples you give are one or two individuals and the rest is hearsay. Again, there are many Rabbis from the community getting up and giving their opinion on this. I am certainly not going to discard it based on numerous anonymous comments (most from the same guy) and a couple of anonymous letters and emails.

I think that if you were to be here, and here what community members have to say, daven in their shuls, eat at their tables, shop with them, you might see things differently. I understand that from your view, seeing just some anonymous comments and a few letters, it seems like a split community. But that is far from the case here.

People didn't stop shopping in GG because they were scared of their Rabbis. They stopped shopping there because they trust their Rabbis. And again, most are not going to let a few anonymous comments change their minds.

Also, you say the Five Towns is " a community that usually supports Rabbinical decisions without any questioning". You seem to have the wrong impression of this community. Have you ever been here? Because you did not describe this community with that statement. This is a very diverse community with observance levels all over the chart. Many people don't particularly care to hear their rabbis opinion on many subjects, and prefer to do what they like. Others follow everything their Rabbi says (far fewer of those, however, than in other Yeshivish communities). But here, everyone save a few seems to have voted with their pocketbooks and shown their trust in the Vaad.

Go figure.

11:44 PM  
Blogger Yid With Lid said...

Actually I grew up near that community and used to go to Sabra Pizza on Saturday nights during the winter. Even got married in the five towns. Have been out of the area for three years and even hope to move back one day. I am not talking about anonymous comments on blogs --I am talking about emails to me. I am talking about people who have identified themselves on other sites.

12:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Vaad didn't "force" anyone to sell

So we're back to that debate again are we? Yes the VAAD forced them to sell and the proof is in your original post. They won, GG is being sold. And another misconception I would like to clear up for you once again. Rabbi Kravitz was not brought in as another supervision against the VAAD. Rabbi Kravitz was brought in as another mashgiach to be a liason with the VAAD, since they had too many problems with Mark. GG figured, since RYE kept finding so much fault with MARK and the way he does things, they couldn't possibly find fault with Rabbi Kravitz. They did this under the advice and guidance of DAS TORAH. That's right, they asked Rabbonim for adivce and this was what they were advised to do. He was brought in so when RYE called GG into yet another session in front of the local Rabbonim, it would be Rabbi Kravitz that went in to answer the questions. Thus it would be one RAV speaking to the others.

I guess they got poor advice or maybe it was good advice and the VAAD or rather the head of the VAAD twisted it around to make it look tricky and sleezy. I don't know where you get your information from, but I know where I do. Just today I spoke to another VAAD mashgiach who told me some very scary stories about Supersol and Brachs. He himself told me that he trusted GG more than any of the other stores in town. So if he, who is a trained mashgiach, unlike some of the youngsters that RYE puts in charge of some kitchens, trust GG above the other stores, why shouldn't I defend them?

Sherree

12:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only writing that indicates such a thing are from the anonymous commenter(s) who somehow thought that discrediting Rav Eisen would save Gourmet Glatt. Neither of those objectives came to pass.


Well I am not anonymous anymore, and I wish the rest of you would speak out openly as well.

Sherree

12:17 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

I am not talking about anonymous comments on blogs --I am talking about emails to me. I am talking about people who have identified themselves on other sites.

Yid, how many? 2? 3? Again, I am talking about the vast majority of the community.

12:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

their overwhelming trust in the Vaad and Rabbi Eisen.

Once again, there was no overwhelming support for the VAAD nor for Rabbi Eisen, and the proof will be in how many people refuse to pay their "dues". People were respectful of their own individual Rebbeim, as they should be and not of the entire group of Rebbeim who fostered this huge mistake. There were a few who did try to rectify it and I want to publicly acknowledge their efforts.

I also heard that some of the so called "overwhelming support" for the VAAD reached the ears of the IRS and they are currently under scrutiny and soon to be investigated. Hashem works in mysterious ways and has a very funny sense of humor. It will be interesting to see if RYE has as creative an accountant as he does a lawyer.

Sherree

12:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is obvious no one ever spoke to the actual mashgiach placed by the vaad into GG.


Well I did, and I don't understand why normal, intelligent, educated, frum professionals such as all of you and the rest of the community need to wait for your Rabbonim to do this. Any one of you could have walked in and asked the same questions I did.

Sherree

12:26 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


So we're back to that debate again are we? Yes the VAAD forced them to sell and the proof is in your original post. They won, GG is being sold.


You call it forcing. I vehemently disagree. Gourmet Glatt was given an ultimatum, yes. Sell or lose your hashgacha. They chose, it didn't work out, they chose another time.

You tell me what your unnamed mashgiach said. That's nice, but again, my Rav, whose name I know, told me something different.

The original story with the chickens? My Rav was very clear about it having happened a certain way. The store was caught red-handed mislabeling chickens. That was the final straw - and I'm glad it was. You don't like that version? You don't have to. My Rav has put his name behind it, and that makes it good enough for me. You want to find a Rav to claim otherwise in his own name? Feel free. Keep me posted.

I am quite sure that Rabbi Kravitz provides a perfectly acceptable level of supervision. But for reasons they have chosen not to disclose in full (and I don't know why you think that Halacha mandates that they must), the Vaad decided that a certain owner was an insurmountable obstacle to proper supervision. I'm willing to take my Rav's word on that matter.

Call it blind faith if you like. I'll call it years of built up trust.

12:26 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

Um Sherree, those "two Hechsherim are better than one" ads don't really fit in with your supposed narrative. If R' Kravitz was brought in as a PR guy/consultant there was no need to advertise his presence to the community like that (or for him to officially give a hechsher to the store for that matter). The ads (and taking on R' Kravitz) were an attempt to stand up to the Vaad's dictates, not a misguided attempt to help smooth out the compliance process. I mean really, c'mon.

12:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM you are on!

12:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is obvious no one ever spoke to the actual mashgiach placed by the vaad into GG.


Well I did, and I don't understand why normal, intelligent, educated, frum professionals such as all of you and the rest of the community need to wait for your Rabbonim to do this. Any one of you could have walked in and asked the same questions I did.
"

maybe placed by the vaad but paid by GG. Who are you kidding? hes not ratting out his emplyee.

12:30 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Once again, there was no overwhelming support for the VAAD nor for Rabbi Eisen, and the proof will be in how many people refuse to pay their "dues". People were respectful of their own individual Rebbeim, as they should be and not of the entire group of Rebbeim who fostered this huge mistake. There were a few who did try to rectify it and I want to publicly acknowledge their efforts.

How do you figure? You must have your finger on the pulse of an entirely different community than mine. Almost every single person that I spoke to on this felt that the fact that so many Rabbanim were acting in a unified manner was all the proof they needed. The monolithic way in which the Vaad responded was a large basis for the trust the Vaad's actions garnered community-wide - not the reverse, as you suggest.



I also heard that some of the so called "overwhelming support" for the VAAD reached the ears of the IRS and they are currently under scrutiny and soon to be investigated. Hashem works in mysterious ways and has a very funny sense of humor. It will be interesting to see if RYE has as creative an accountant as he does a lawyer.


Wow. What a vindictive statement.

12:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that the MO for the commenter who keeps on this (even though the community has clearly spoken) is that when teh going gets tough, and all else fails, trash Rabbi Eisen. Yawn. It's getting old.


So is wave the Rabbi Eisen is great, he did a wonderful job and we need him here flag. Give it up. He did nothing but divide and conquer here. We will see if the shop-in on Thursday turns out a crowd of supporters or not Orthomom. Then you can speak about the community as a whole, how they feel and who they support.

12:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's what you say. But I hear otherwise from my Rav. Who do you expect me to trust? My Rav or an anonymous commenter?

11:14 PM

I am wondering just who your RAV is, because everyone I spoke to said their RAV has not said a word and would not answer even one question about GG.

Sherree

12:37 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

"I also heard that some of the so called "overwhelming support" for the VAAD reached the ears of the IRS and they are currently under scrutiny and soon to be investigated. Hashem works in mysterious ways and has a very funny sense of humor. It will be interesting to see if RYE has as creative an accountant as he does a lawyer."

Hate to bring this up because its kind of besides the point, but do we know if the person posting here is Sherree is the real Sherree (OM- any IP stuff that can help with that)? I would hate to think that comments containing blatant motzi shem ra like the above would be attributed to the wrong person. And if it is actually the real Sherree, well shame on her.

12:38 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

We will see if the shop-in on Thursday turns out a crowd of supporters or not Orthomom. Then you can speak about the community as a whole, how they feel and who they support.

Right. If the store isn't sold by then, we'll see whether GG has a crowd to rival that of its competitors.

12:38 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


I am wondering just who your RAV is, because everyone I spoke to said their RAV has not said a word and would not answer even one question about GG.

Sherree


Surely you jest, or haven't been keeping up to date on the comment sections here or the community goings-on. Numerous local Rabbanim have spoken both publicly and privately on this topic. Some even in shul e-mails.

12:40 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Hate to bring this up because its kind of besides the point, but do we know if the person posting here is Sherree is the real Sherree (OM- any IP stuff that can help with that)?


I have no way of knowing what the "real Sheree's" IP is, so it's meaningless to me.

12:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So we're back to that debate again are we? Yes the VAAD forced them to sell and the proof is in your original post. They won, GG is being sold.

You call it forcing. I vehemently disagree. Gourmet Glatt was given an ultimatum, yes. Sell or lose your hashgacha. They chose, it didn't work out, they chose another time. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DISAGREE, IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

You tell me what your unnamed mashgiach said. That's nice, but again, my Rav, whose name I know, told me something different. AND THE MASHGIACH WHOSE NAME I KNOW TOLD ME THERE ARE MORE PROBLEMS IN SUPERSOL AND BRACHS THAN THERE EVER WAS IN GG, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHY THE VAAD HAS NOT COME DOWN HARD ON THESE STORES.

The original story with the chickens? My Rav was very clear about it having happened a certain way. NOT EVEN ONE RAV EVER SAW THE CHICKENS FOR THEMSELVES, IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY PLACED IN A SECURE FREEZER. NOW I HEAR NO ONE KNOWS WHERE TO FIND THEM.
The store was caught red-handed mislabeling chickens. That was the final straw - and I'm glad it was.RABBI EISEN HIMSELF TOLD ME "MISTAKES HAPPEN, AND IT CAN HAPPEN IN ANY STORE"

You don't like that version? You don't have to. My Rav has put his name behind it, and that makes it good enough for me. You want to find a Rav to claim otherwise in his own name? Feel free. Keep me posted. WELL THEN, WHO IS YOUR RAV THAT IS SO FORTHCOMING WITH INFORMATION?????


Sherree

I am quite sure that Rabbi Kravitz provides a perfectly acceptable level of supervision. But for reasons they have chosen not to disclose in full (and I don't know why you think that Halacha mandates that they must), the Vaad decided that a certain owner was an insurmountable obstacle to proper supervision. I'm willing to take my Rav's word on that matter.

Call it blind faith if you like. I'll call it years of built up trust.

12:45 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

OM - I meant if all of the Sherree posts had the same IP or if the Sherree IP matched that of some of the more virulent anon posters on the topic. I know you wouldn't know the real IP.

12:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um Sherree, those "two Hechsherim are better than one" ads don't really fit in with your supposed narrative. If R' Kravitz was brought in as a PR guy/consultant there was no need to advertise his presence to the community like that (or for him to officially give a hechsher to the store for that matter). The ads (and taking on R' Kravitz) were an attempt to stand up to the Vaad's dictates, not a misguided attempt to help smooth out the compliance process. I mean really, c'mon.


Those ads started after the VAAD began their immediate threats.

Sherree

12:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

maybe placed by the vaad but paid by GG. Who are you kidding? hes not ratting out his emplyee.

12:30 AM

And who is responsible for that, if you feel there is a conflict of interest take it up with the VAAD. It is the Vaad that does not wish to run a set of books, payroll, pay payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, Workman's comp, Disability and benefits. What are they doing with all the money they collect?

Sherree

12:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you figure? You must have your finger on the pulse of an entirely different community than mine. Almost every single person that I spoke to on this felt that the fact that so many Rabbanim were acting in a unified manner was all the proof they needed. The monolithic way in which the Vaad responded was a large basis for the trust the Vaad's actions garnered community-wide - not the reverse, as you suggest.

Actually I was wondering the same about you. The people I spoke and speak to every day are furious at the Vaad and don't support them at all. They want their money back and want RYE run out of town. So I guess we don't live in the same part of town do we?

As far as the information regarding the IRS, what is vidictive about that? I didn't do it? I am just passing along what I heard today.

Sherree

12:52 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DISAGREE, IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

Nor you, Sherree. Nor you.

Sherre, you have your (Gourmet Glatt's) version, I have mine (the Vaad's). It's clear that we will never see eye to eye on this. But again, I am comfortable with that. My Rav is an honorable man who I trust on matter such as these. Mark Bolender is someone I have no reason to trust or distrust (alleged chicken mislabeling notwithstanding), but I certainly do not have any reason to trust his version over that of my Rav's. Nor can I understand why you would expect me to.

12:53 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Actually I was wondering the same about you. The people I spoke and speak to every day are furious at the Vaad and don't support them at all. They want their money back and want RYE run out of town. So I guess we don't live in the same part of town do we?


Clearly not.

12:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right. If the store isn't sold by then, we'll see whether GG has a crowd to rival that of its competitors.

Wow, look whose being vindictive now?

12:54 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


As far as the information regarding the IRS, what is vidictive about that? I didn't do it? I am just passing along what I heard today.


If you have to ask...

12:54 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

"Those ads started after the VAAD began their immediate threats."

Agreed, but how exactly does that square with your narrative about how GG brought in R' Kravitz as a representative to deal with the Vaad? The first time his name popped up was after the Vaad said (privately) that they were not going to renew the hechsher unless the store was sold.

12:54 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...



Wow, look whose being vindictive now?


Vindictive? I answered your question.

12:55 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

This dialogue isn't even academic. It's idiotic. Anyone who knows anything understands that:

a) GG made a mess with their arrogance and stupid blundering.

b) The Vaad poorly executed a very serious decision and threw their credibility and authority into play

c) An opportunistic hechsher whore attempted to exploit a dispute, which prudence and intelligence should have told him to stay out of.

d) The Vaad dodged a HUGE bullet because they were fortunate to have the nearly unanimous support of every orthodox rabbi in the community and people understood the weight and significance of a united rabbinic front.

People listened to their rabbonim, not because they blindly follow, but because ultimately, intelligent people respect and follow leaders who act like leaders.

12:55 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...



Agreed, but how exactly does that square with your narrative about how GG brought in R' Kravitz as a representative to deal with the Vaad? The first time his name popped up was after the Vaad said (privately) that they were not going to renew the hechsher unless the store was sold.



Exactly, SA. This story about hiring Rabbi Kravitz as a liaison became the party line well after the Vaad unceremoniously dropped GG.

12:56 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

SW, thank you for saying in one comment what I've been trying to say in 30. You are in rare form today, as I've mentioned.

12:58 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Still Wonderin' said...

This dialogue isn't even academic. It's idiotic.


Perhaps, but entertaining for the insomniac.

12:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sherre, you have your (Gourmet Glatt's) version, I have mine (the Vaad's). It's clear that we will never see eye to eye on this. But again, I am comfortable with that. My Rav is an honorable man who I trust on matter such as these. Mark Bolender is someone I have no reason to trust or distrust (alleged chicken mislabeling notwithstanding), but I certainly do not have any reason to trust his version over that of my Rav's. Nor can I understand why you would expect me to.

12:53 AM

I don't expect anything from anyone other than to be fair and listen to both sides of the story. I spoke to Rabbi Eisen and saw something in the way he spoke about the Bollenders that made me want to hear the other side of the story, so I went to investigate. He told me that "they" should prove that they are Shomer Shabbat and that started me going and it took off from there.

Unless you or your husband is a VAAD member, there is no way you know anything from the vaad themselves. That would be impossible since they are not supposed to speak to anyone. As far as evryone on this blog and the others, as well as anyone I have spoken to ALL the rabbonim who signed the letter have zipped their mouths and have not said another word since they announced the boycott. Except for the very few who said that people can buy water and fruit in the store. They knew they were in trouble when they used the word "boycott" so they stopped talking.

You don't believe me and you don't have to. I don't believe you either. Anyone who reads this will believe whomever they choose to. But anyone who has tried talking to their own Rabbonim know that they can't get one word out of them.

Sherree

1:01 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

SW - not to pick a fight here, but I don't see how in regard to you item (b) the Vaad could have executed this any better (unless you are referring to the initial delay in pulling the hechsher and the attempt to have things done quietly and behind the scenes). This was bound to become a public fight if they were going to act against the GG ownership after the chicken incident, which they obviously felt they had to do. I'm just unclear on what you see as having been poorly executed.

1:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM rocking the joint tonight

1:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agreed, but how exactly does that square with your narrative about how GG brought in R' Kravitz as a representative to deal with the Vaad? The first time his name popped up was after the Vaad said (privately) that they were not going to renew the hechsher unless the store was sold.


He was in the store for a few weeks before the ads popped up and before the Vaad pulled the hechsher due to a "break" in the contract.

Sherree

1:04 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


You don't believe me and you don't have to. I don't believe you either. Anyone who reads this will believe whomever they choose to. But anyone who has tried talking to their own Rabbonim know that they can't get one word out of them.


Sheree that's simply untrue. Perhaps the Rabbis who spoke to their congregants were meant to stay silent, but I can assure you that practically, that did not happen. I am sure that if this weren't going on in the middle of the night, we could get commenters to chime in and back me up. There were certainly Rabbanim who discussed this with their congregants. Also, why do you assume that this story was discussed only after the letter was signed? There was almost a week between the Hechsher being pulled on Erev Shabbat and the letter being released.

1:05 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

So was R' Kravitz brought in before or after the Vaad told the GG owners that they would have to sell? The ads came out, IIRC, after it was leaked that the Vaad had given the GG owners an ultimatum, but before anyone at the Vaad had made any public pronouncement regarding GG's hechsher. I find it hard to believe that R' Kravitz was brought in before the "chicken incident", if that's what you are claiming.

1:07 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


He was in the store for a few weeks before the ads popped up and before the Vaad pulled the hechsher due to a "break" in the contract.

Sherree


Several weeks? I received e-mails (which I chose not to post) that the was discussing pulling the hechsher the day after Rabbi Kravitz's hechsher was announced. I waited to get hard news on the matter before posting, but it was a poorly kept secret that the Vaad was unhappy with the Rabbi Kravitz situation from the get-go.

1:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Exactly, SA. This story about hiring Rabbi Kravitz as a liaison became the party line well after the Vaad unceremoniously dropped GG.

Well MOM, if you were a supporter of GG, and you had gone in to investigate from day one, you would have met Rabbi Kravitz as I did, and you would have spoken to some of the Rabbonim that advised him to come in. Then you would have known why he was there and how he planned to be the middle man between the store and the vaad. I spoke with him as well as with the Rav, because I was going in on a regular basis to get updates on what was going on. I do recall posts begging people to stop in and find out for themselves what was really going on. I was one of those people who bothered to do that.

Sherree

1:08 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

I find it hard to believe that R' Kravitz was brought in before the "chicken incident", if that's what you are claiming.

He most certainly was not.

1:08 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Well MOM, if you were a supporter of GG, and you had gone in to investigate from day one, you would have met Rabbi Kravitz as I did, and you would have spoken to some of the Rabbonim that advised him to come in. Then you would have known why he was there and how he planned to be the middle man between the store and the vaad. I spoke with him as well as with the Rav, because I was going in on a regular basis to get updates on what was going on. I do recall posts begging people to stop in and find out for themselves what was really going on. I was one of those people who bothered to do that.


I recall those posts as well. You wrote some of them. You didn't say anything then about Rabbi Kravitz being hired as a liaison.

1:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"c) An opportunistic hechsher whore attempted to exploit a dispute, which prudence and intelligence should have told him to stay out of."

This poster should be ashamed of themselves.. to call a well respected OU Rabbi a " HECHSER wHORE" IS A DISGRACE. Speak to the OU Respected Rabbi Kravitz. He saw an injustice and tried to rectify it.. It was one of the vaad rabbis who brokered the meeting of the bolenders and Rabbi Kravitz. This vaad rabbi also signed the letter. to everyone out there. wake up please,,, see how this whole situation was manipulated . Hashem certainly will.

1:11 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

I can almost believe that R' Kravitz saw his role as middleman and peacemaker, as it explains why he would poke his head into this mess where it pretty clearly did not belong. However, it'd take a lot more credulity than I'm capable of to believe that the GG ownership brought him in as anything other than a counterweight to or replacement for the Vaad.

1:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So was R' Kravitz brought in before or after the Vaad told the GG owners that they would have to sell? The ads came out, IIRC, after it was leaked that the Vaad had given the GG owners an ultimatum, but before anyone at the Vaad had made any public pronouncement regarding GG's hechsher. I find it hard to believe that R' Kravitz was brought in before the "chicken incident", if that's what you are claiming.

He was brought in after the chicken incident and after GG was given an ultimatum. GG realized there was no RYE would listen to them, so some Rabbonim suggested that they hire yet another mashgiach to show that they were seriously following super kashrus rules and that the new mashgiach would be the liason between the store and Rabbi Eisen. They did not announce the new kosher supervision until the vaad gave them a hard time about hiring Rabbi Kravitz. Once they demanded that he remove Rabbi Kravitz because it was against the contract, but they were forcing them to sell anyway, it became a ridiculous issue so they announced Rabbi Kravitz's credentials to the public.

Sherree

1:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was one of the vaad rabbis who brokered the meeting of the bolenders and Rabbi Kravitz. This vaad rabbi also signed the letter


Yes it was. I can vouch for that.

Sherree

1:15 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"This poster should be ashamed of themselves.. to call a well respected OU Rabbi a " HECHSER wHORE" IS A DISGRACE."

Spare your phony righteous indignation. I stand by my comment. Ii could care less if R' Kravitz is the next lubavitcher rebbe. And his OU pedigree means he should especially know better than to inject himself into a community disute like this. He smelled money and power. Case closed.

1:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it seems to me the bolanders are hiding underneath the sherre belsky name
what do you think?

1:16 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Somewhat Anonymous said...

I can almost believe that R' Kravitz saw his role as middleman and peacemaker, as it explains why he would poke his head into this mess where it pretty clearly did not belong. However, it'd take a lot more credulity than I'm capable of to believe that the GG ownership brought him in as anything other than a counterweight to or replacement for the Vaad.


That is what I was told, I have never heard anything bad said about Rabbi Kravitz by any Rav or member of the Vaad. As a matter of fact, my Rav made sure to say that Rabbi Kravitz gives a perfectly reliable level of supervision, but unfortunately had stepped into a situation where he was being used as a pawn.

1:17 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

Can't really disagree with Anon 1:11 about SW's inappropriate choice of language there. However for Anon 1:11 and all of the other GG supporters who keep bringing up some variation of "Hashem is watching" - do you really think Hashem wants the community to reject the united position of their Rabbonim en masse? Last I checked, no Jewish community in three and a half thousand or so years of our history has ever gotten plaudits for opposing their Rabbinic leadership. I doubt this is changing now.

1:19 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Anonymous said...

it seems to me the bolanders are hiding underneath the sherre belsky name
what do you think?


No, I do not think so. Sherree Belsky is a real person, who, to her credit, has been trying to get to the bottom of this issue for some time now. (Actually, from the very start, both on this blog and around the community). I commend her on her courage and her tenacity, even though I may disagree with her conclusions.

1:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Om that was very big of you to say

1:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sherree has done her homework.. what she was not privy to was the suggestion for a second hechser came from from a vaad rabbi sypathetic to the bolender's plight. This rabbi himself could not help against rye but felt since an ultimatum was already issued ( and on tape ) it could not get any worse..little did that rabbi know how bad it would eventually get.. so, maybe GG got bad advice: did they deserve to be brought down and forced out of business? OM what if this were your husband...put yourselves in someone else's shoes for once? what would you have suggested to GG? i, for one, would love to know what you would have told your husband to do in the same situation. malkie

1:22 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

OM what if this were your husband...put yourselves in someone else's shoes for once? what would you have suggested to GG? i, for one, would love to know what you would have told your husband to do in the same situation. malkie

I absolutely hear your argument and your call for sympathy. And I do have sympathy for the family who has lost their store. But in all fairness, as far as I have been told, the Vaad gave an opportunity for this to be handled in a quiet and discreet manner that would have been profitable for the sellers after they felt that the owbers gave them no choice. Yes, the fact that the Bolenders botched that situation is not a crime worthy of beheading, but bad choices do have consequences.

1:26 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

"Sherree Belsky is a real person, who, to her credit, has been trying to get to the bottom of this issue for some time now. (Actually, from the very start, both on this blog and around the community)."

This was actually why I was concerned about the possibility of it not being her in my earlier post. It is one thing to investigate the situation and form an opinion in favor of GG (although I am not sanguine about anyone publicly opposing the community's Rabbonim in this context). It is quite another to make some of the baldly defamatory and beyond the pale statements that have been made by "Sherree" here tonight, and I think far less of her as a result. That being said it is really besides the point for the purposes of this discussion.

1:27 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"SW - not to pick a fight here, but I don't see how in regard to you item (b) the Vaad could have executed this any better (unless you are referring to the initial delay in pulling the hechsher and the attempt to have things done quietly and behind the scenes). This was bound to become a public fight if they were going to act against the GG ownership after the chicken incident, which they obviously felt they had to do. I'm just unclear on what you see as having been poorly executed."

I say this because the vaad doesn't understand PR. They acted furtively and seemingly without reasonable justification. They did not disclose why they were acting as they were, or why they were 'targeting' GG.

Furthermore, they threw their authority and credibility to the wind. If the community had not gone along with their 'ban', they would have destroyed the status quo of consistent kashrus in the five towns within six months.

If the rabonim of the community would not have acted in a unified, coordinated manner as they did, and if the significance of their front had been lost on the community, GG would have been full the following monday and the Vaad would be out of luck.

In spite of themselves, it all worked out. If I was Rabbi Eisen, I'd be earmarking 20K a year for the services of a PR consultant who doesn't live in Brooklyn. He needs to be less haphazard with the Vaad's image in the future.

1:28 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

so, maybe GG got bad advice: did they deserve to be brought down and forced out of business?

Please understand that the hechsher-pulling by the vaad was only part of the story. The vaad had already given the Bolenders the ultimatum that they had to sell. So it seems that the decision to bring in Rabbi Kravitz did not force the Vaad to "bring the Bolenders down", as that was a foregone conclusion at that point, due to completely different issues.

1:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

om, what opportunity are yu referring to> I am very close to the situation ( and have researched as much as sherree has) but i do not know what you are talking about that the bolenders botched.. please enlighten me.

1:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm tired and I need sleep. This has been a terrible strain on me, because I try to help people. Look, Ortho, you have chosen your side from the very beginning and you have been pretty one-sided all along. But you are neither a journalist nor a judge so you don't have to be fair. I on the other hand have a lot of experience, as I have said before, with things not turning out to be as they seemed to be. So I don't have blind faith as you do, and I don't follow without question. I did my best to investigate and inform. I did my best to help this family not be destroyed, to help my fellow Jews. I did the very best that I could. I am only sorry that I couldn't do more to stop this Chilul Hashem.

However, I can't change your mind, and I am not going to try to. I have no more strength to debate this here on the internet with you. Hashem knows the truth and after 120 we will all stand before him to give our final din v'chesbon. I know what I will say. I will say that I did my best to help as many Jews, adults and children as I possibly could. I will say that I did my best to speak the truth and not spread Loshon Horah, and that I did my best to collect and distribute tzedakkah as needed.

I am only one person, there is a limit as to what I can accomplish alone for the kids and families that I work with, and for this issue as well. I wish all of you the best, I wish all of you a peaceful and restfull sleep. I know I will not sleep restfully because I haven't since all this started.

I will say one last time, that I admire and respect all of our local Rabbonim, however I do believe that they were misled in this instance and I agree with Rabbi Lichtman that they made a grave error. I appreciate those Rabbonim who worked behind the scenes to try to make the deal happen that was on the table a few weeks ago where a buyer was going to buy just the meat department in the store. RYE nixed that, but you did try to work out that compromise solution and I applaud you all for that.

And I still suggest that Rabbi Eisen does not belong in this community. We have plenty of qualified individuals in our own backyard who are more knowledgeable and can reunite us and heal the pain he caused. We need someone with humility, perseverence and most of all exemplary qualifications and midos. Spreading loshon horah and being motzi shem rah, as he was with me, is not a quality that I am looking for in the Rav Hamachshir in charge of my community.

I hope you all give that some thought.

Hatzlocha to all,
Sherree

1:30 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

om, what opportunity are yu referring to>


We are talking about the early offers the Vaad made to the Bolenders for them to sell the store without the Vaad publicizing the story.

but i do not know what you are talking about that the bolenders botched.. please enlighten me.

Uh, I think just about everyone here can agree that GG's ownership badly miscalculated their strategy on many fronts.

1:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spreading loshon horah and being motzi shem rah, as he was with me, is not a quality that I am looking for in the Rav Hamachshir in charge of my community.


Oh thats rich Sherree. Just rich.

1:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a question OM? You have criticized many greatly for hiding behind "anonymous" yet you yourself do not support your "insider knowledge" with YOUR name?? Kudos to Sheree Belsky (and her marvelous work with "kids count") for having the integrity to put a name to her convictions! More than I can say for you OM!

1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh, I think just about everyone here can agree that GG's ownership badly miscalculated their strategy on many fronts.

1:32 AM

om, the bolenders relied on others in the vaad community for advice and guidance in how to deal with this situation. several well respected rabbonim were in meetings privately to counsel the bolenders on what steps to take... what was unfortunate, however, was that those well meaning rabbis had no clue as to how to handle rye.. he stopped ANY attempt to regain their hechser..NOThing was accepted by rye.. that is the truth and the problem in and of itself.. if the vaad rabbis that counseled the owners quietly with suggestions could not get rye to agree, what hope was there for the bolenders?? those rabbis are to be commended... those that gave limitless power to rye should be ashamed of themselves for not researching and listening to those rabbis who tried to intercede.

1:42 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...


Anonymous said...

Just a question OM? You have criticized many greatly for hiding behind "anonymous" yet you yourself do not support your "insider knowledge" with YOUR name??


No, actually I haven't criticized anyone for choosing anonymity. I criticized the commenter who kept leaving comment after comment trashing the vaad, pretending to be different people. I also questioned the anonymous commenter's credibility over that of my Rav, and the community;s Rabbanim at large. As well I should. As you should question my credibility as an anonymous blogger. This is a blog. I say what I feel. Always under the same pseudonym. Take it or leave it.

Also, I very clearly praised Sherry for her courage a few comments up. She is to be commended for her actions whether I agree with her or not.

1:46 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

those that gave limitless power to rye should be ashamed of themselves for not researching and listening to those rabbis who tried to intercede.

Again. Here's my problem. We had a group of many community Rabbis. All of who represent very different subsets of Orthodoxy. Many of whom do not generally shy away from having an opinion. Yet, they all agreed. They all (if what you say is to be believed) felt that Rabbi Eisen was the man to make the final decision.

Why would I look to dissent? Who the heck am I to disagree with nearly every Rav in the community?

1:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that RYE has more enemies than G-d has little green apples...maybe he should consider a bodyguard rather than a PR???

1:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And by the way-ALL the food store owners KNOW who the USDA inspector is-you may know some inside info Orthomom but don't poo-poo this one-it happens to be true! He lives on my block and the 5t is part of his territory. Why don't you call the USDA find out the conditions of the places you are shopping in-one commenter asked if "the prerequisite dirt" was being brought in from Boro Park-why bring it in-just look for it in Supersol and Brach's-FEH!!! I have had to shop Queens since this happened with GG-I can't wait till my Rav gives me the "heads up"

2:05 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"Anonymous said...
It seems that RYE has more enemies than G-d has little green apples...maybe he should consider a bodyguard rather than a PR???"


I'm sure the USDA would be interested in hearing if their kosher food inspector who lives in the Five Towns is leveling threats of bodily harm to a community Rabbi.

Maybe you'd better calm down or someone here may actually take you on your word and start looking you up. You're out of control.

2:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
it seems to me the bolanders are hiding underneath the sherre belsky name
what do you think?

If you know Sheree, and I do, you will know that she is a very indpendent person, who speaks her mind the way that she sees it. While she has been a GG supporteer from the start, she did so only after she investigated herself.

7:46 AM  
Blogger whatisis said...

Good morning to all of the great people in the Five Towns and anyone who has been following the Gourmet Glatt saga?
I have never added my voice to a blog or any other online forum, but this case of community strive cries out for a resolution ASAP.
I have chosen not to make my identity known since I dislike notoriety and besides, the beauty of the internet is that we all have a voice online, taking names and numbers only brings restrictions. As a human being I have the right to say my piece as you all have the right to say yours. In the end as with everything, Hashem guides it all.

Some points to consider;

1) The ranting for and against the Vaad and or the Bolender family runs counter productive and seeds hatred as it tries to divide the community of the Five Towns and the community of man.
2) This deal took months and was bashert in its most profound meaning.
3) The down to earth reason why the Kaufthiel Group got to the finish line with this when so many other buyers were negotiating, is that they offered the most money and the Bolenders took it wholeheartedly. As well as the fact that Kaufthiel negotiated with honesty and sincerity throughout the process. He met with the Vaad and made it clear from the get go that if this will help all parties and bring a good and fair conclusion to the mayhem then he would take it forward, otherwise he would just walk away from a very complicated, difficult and hurtful situation.
4) Several members of the family will stay on and their livelihood is very much connected to the ongoing survival and growth of the store.
5) The Vaad found itself against the wall in a quickly down spiraling situation. They made some decisions after several meetings which included the leaders of this community and they were very difficult to make. Their lives were not made easier for one minute by anything that transpired during the past several months and they, like the Bolenders, wished for a quick an amicable resolution.
6) The Bolenders found themselves in a confusing situation to say the least as they struggled to survive a very bad state of affairs. They, too, made some quick decisions with outside guidance and some of it backfired. In the end they wanted and needed to make it work for all parties. This deal did exactly that, otherwise they would have not taken it. They are G-d fearing people and they know that this is what was planned by Hashem.
7) When Yosef Hatzadik was sold by his brothers and we all ended up in Egypt, do we blame Yosef or his brothers or do we say that G-d wanted to give us the Torah, and this was the road used to get there. The road that the Vaad, the Bolender family, the community and now the Kaufthiel Group are on has its roots up above and we should all help each other find achdus; brotherhood. Peace and love must come out of this otherwise it has all been a waste of time.
8) All the armchair commentators who speak their voice through blogs or in shull or in the bagel shop need to step back and think about this; we all need to get back to more important things around us as we live for such a short time in on G-d given earth;
a) There is war in Iraq and evil everywhere man lives, may G-d help us.
b) Israel is surrounded by barbarians and the world is blind to the facts.
c) Jews everywhere spend hours a day watching mindless TV, literally killing time instead of learning Torah or doing chesed, myself included; how dumb is that.
d) People generally think that they are worth more or that their day is more valuable if they talk about other peoples problems, which can only bring out the ugliness of man.
e) The Vaad did what they felt was right and we do not know enough to condemn them, but we do go to the synagogues where they are our leaders, so let us all try to respect their decisions. If they are way wrong then we who voted them in as our leaders, are all idiots. We are not idiots and they are not so wrong in their decisions.
f) Our hearts go out to the Bolenders regardless of their guilt or innocence and we love their store. We love them and we are happy that this can be put behind us.
g) And lastly, Hashem has his reasons. If we can’t see a chain of events and how it has and will affect so many people’s lives, then we are lost.

Thank you and G-d bless the good people of the five towns and Far Rockaway as well as all living things. Amen.

8:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 8:02 am

very well written!!!

finaly an end to this fiasco.

9:01 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"very well written!!!"

Let's not get carried away... But the sentiment was welcome and sounded completely sincere. Thanks for weighing in Mr. Anonymous 8:02 a.m.

9:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now that this chapter is closing, the real question will Rabbi Eisen take the faith he handed to Rabbi Chait, [Rabbi Eisen forced him out of his job he held for 15 years as our former Rabbinic Coordinator.I sincerely hope the Vaad will tell Rabbi Eisen to leave this coummunity,probably giving him a 4 month window to find another job, hopefully in Idaho. Quite frankly a public stoning would be in line.

9:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dont forget the TAR AND FEATHERS

9:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I admire Sheree for using her name, it is the only thing positive I can say about all the comments and postings.
I know many people have reviewed the entire situation, but let’s see where we are.
GG had a business in the 5T. They ran it the way they wanted to, spotless, fresh merchandise, wide aisles, etc. One of the choices they made was not to follow the VAAD rules. Whether the VAAD was right or wrong, whether RYE had a bone to pick with them, is immaterial. If the Board of Health would tell them they could only use blue garbage bags, would they say “NO, we want to use Yellow!" Rules are made to followed, like it or not. Look at Toddy’s, he added a mashgiach, and business is good and steady. He publicly stated he only did it because he had to, not because he wanted to. Well, that’s a business decision. If the Bolenders decided to ignore the VAAD, well that was also a business decision. Too bad it was the wrong one. Bringing in Rabbi Kravitz was also a bad business decision. When you have a contract that says you can only have one hasgacha, bringing in another is a breach of contract. By the way, the Vaad of Queens is looking for a new administrator. The word is, Rabbi Kravitz applied, but was not accepted.
OK, so you believe there are many of us that agree with you. Well, where have they been over the past months? Why have they not ignored the Rabbanim and continued to shop at GG. If the public was so overwhelmingly in support of GG, the parking lots would have been full, and the Bolenders would have told the VAAD to go jump. But the Rabbanim said no, so they listened. Many people have been knocking the Rabbanim for supporting the VAAD and RYE. Did it ever occur to you that they are right? Just because you do not like what they said or did, does not make them wrong. A Rav is a spiritual LEADER, not advisor. If you are a member of his congregation, or ask him questions, you must follow his answer. If he tells you not to eat at a certain restaurant, or use a certain mikveh, you cannot say, OK, Reb, Thanks, but it is cleaner then the other place, and I like the ambiance, so we’ll eat there or go there anyway. I find it mind boggling that so many, educated, professional people, become deaf when they are told something they do not want to hear.
So now, there is a fine gentleman from Boro Park (no, it is not an oxymoron) who is a smart businessman, and wants to buy GG. So now we become anti semites.
1) Will they import rude people from Brooklyn to shop?
2) Will shoppers need to learn Yiddish...or will Yinglish suffice?
3) Will the perquisite dirt be imported from Boro Park?
4) Is there a market for Chassidishe Shechita in the 5 towns?
5) Do we have enough 80 year old women in the 5 towns to work the deli and continually ask, "What else?"
6) Will sales tax become optional?
7) Will they open a lingerie shop?
8) Will they add a stroller parking lot for strollers and babies?

This man is a well known Baal Chesed, Baal Midos, who gives lots of tzedakah, yet you make fun of him, because he had the audacity to be a smart businessman!
Had he been black, would anyone dare make jokes?

Ladies and Gentlemen: let us realize one thing; there are enough Tzarot in the world for Jews that we do not need to fight amongst ourselves. There is nothing wrong with trying to better one self, or grow in Yiddishkeit. But there is something wrong with YOU trying to stop ME from improving myself. You have a choice, you can shop at a different store, you can daven in a temple that befits your ideas, you can even move, but you cannot say “it’s good enough for me, don’t make changes”.

I think all the negative posters on both sides need to apologize to the people they’ve belittled.
I am sorry if anyone was offended by my comments.
We need to bring Moshiach!

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MOMof4 said:

That's what you say. But I hear otherwise from my Rav. Who do you expect me to trust? My Rav or an anonymous commenter?

So your rav is saying it was about kashrus? That's interesting! So your rav said that everything was kosher up until 4 pm on black Friday and then at 4:01 it wasn't anymore?

Everyone accepted the fact that kashruth was not the issue and now you're telling us your rav said it was!!! So, what about the pots and pans?

11:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear anon 10:56:

You are one of the belittlers yourself. Let's go point by point:

One of the choices they made was not to follow the VAAD rules ACCORDING TO THE VAAD'S OWN MASHGICHIM, THEY DID FOLLOW THE VAAD RULES. EVEN TO THE POINT OF HANDING OVER THE KEYS. THEY DID WHATEVER RYE ASKED OR FORCED.

If the Bolenders decided to ignore the VAAD, well that was also a business decision. THEY COULDN'T POSSIBLY IGNORE THE VAAD, THE VAAD RAN THEIR STORE, TWO PERMANENT VAAD MASHGICHIM WHEN OTHER STORES DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ANY.

Bringing in Rabbi Kravitz was also a bad business decision. THEY WERE ADVISED TO DO SO BY VAAD MEMBERS.

When you have a contract that says you can only have one hasgacha, bringing in another is a breach of contract. KRAVITZ WAS BROUGHT IN AS A LIASON AND RYE KNEW THAT. RYE HAD A PERSONAL ISSUE WITH KRAVITZ BECAUSE KRAVITZ WAS HEAD OF THE OU MEAT DEPARTMENT WHEN HE WAS IN CHARGE OF HASHGACHA FOR KOSHER SPOT AND NATHAN'S IN BROOKLYN. KRAVITZ INSTRUCTED RYE "NOT" TO GIVE A HECHSHER TO NATHAN'S BECAUSE IT IS A TREIF CHAIN AND IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS. NATHAN'S WAS CLOSED DOWN BECAUSE IT WAS FOUND WITH TREIF MEAT ON THE PREMISES. IN ADDITION IF YOU WANT TO TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS HAVE DUAL HASHGACHAS AND HAVE NOT BEEN CITED OR THEIR HASHGACHAS REVOKED, ONLY GG.

Well, where have they been over the past months? A GROUP OF RABBONIM FROM THE VAAD WHERE WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES ON AN AGREEMENT WHEREBY THE MEAT AND TAKE OUT DEPARTMENT WOULD BE SOLD TO ANOTHER PARTY EQUALING 25% OF THE BUSINESS AND THAT MARK WOULD HAVE AN ADDITONAL CONSEQUENCE AS WELL. RYE REFUSED TO AGREE TO IT, NO MATTER HOW MANY OF THE RABBONIM WORKED ON IT. HE WANTED THE FAMILY TO SELL 51 PERCENT OF THE BUSINESS SO THEY HAD NO CONTROL WHATSOEVER AND HE WANTED THE BUYER TO PUT UP ALL THE MONEY UP FRONT IN CASH. WHY HE WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO BROKER THE DEAL IS BEYOND MY SCOPE OF COMPREHENSION AND WHY HE WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEMAND THE TERMS IS AGAIN BEYOND MY SCOPE OF COMPREHENSION. BUT THIS IS WHY THIS ISSUE COULD NOT BE CLOSED AND COMPLETED SIX WEEKS AGO. IT IS NOT BECAUSE THE RABBONIM OR THE BOLLENDERS WERE NOT COOPERATING WITH EACH OTHER AND IT WAS NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT SEEKING ALTERNATE SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEM. IT WAS BECAUSE RYE WAS STUBBORN AND UNMOVING FROM HIS MISSION TO PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.

Why have they not ignored the Rabbanim and continued to shop at GG. THERE WAS MUCH DEBATE ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND PEOPLE WERE AFRAID OF GOING AGAINST THEIR RABBONIM ON THIS COUNT. PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY ARE VERY SOCIAL AND EAT IN EACH OTHER'S HOMES. THIS ISSUE WOULD DESTROY THAT VERY THREAD OF CONNECTION. EVERYONE WAS ASKING EACH OTHER WHERE THEY SHOPPED, SO IF SOMEONE WAS GOING AGAINST THE RAV, EVERYONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT AND IT WOULD GET BACK TO THE RAV.

Did it ever occur to you that they are right? Just because you do not like what they said or did, does not make them wrong. NO IT DOESN'T. BUT DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT THEY ARE WRONG OR THAT THEY WERE MISLED? MY RAV DIDN'T SIGN THE LETTER AND NEITHER DID RABBI SPEIGEL. I KNOW THE RABBONIM THAT WERE WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES ON THE OTHER DEAL AND I KNOW THE RABBONIM THAT ADVISED GG TO BRING IN RABBI KRAVITZ. YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW AS MUCH AS I DO ON THE SUBJECT, SO YOU ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE. YOU CAN BELIEVE ME OR NOT, THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. PEOPLE WHO KNOW ME ALSO KNOW THAT I AM TRUTHFUL AND HONEST. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MYSELF. I WORK ALMOST 24/7 FOR THE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES THAT I HELP. I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 4 YEARS. IN THE 12 YEARS THAT I HAVE LIVED IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD I HAVE HAD 11 CHILDREN LIVE IN MY HOME FOR VARIOUS PERIODS OF TIME. I HAVE NEVER TAKEN ONE CENT FROM ANYONE, AS A MATTER OF FACT IT HAS COST ME QUITE A LOT OVER THE YEARS. I MENTOR AND I AM A CERTIFIED COACH AND I DO IT ALL FOR CHESSED. I HAVE NEVER TURNED ANYONE AWAY, NOT EVEN WHEN THEY CAME KNOCING ON MY DOOR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AS WAS THE CASE WITH 2 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS 4 YEARS AGO.

I HAVE HELPED 3 20 YEAR OLD GIRLS ON THE VERGE OF SUICIDE AROUND SHAVOUS TIME AND B"H ARE ALL DOING WELL NOW. I CONSULT WITH LOCAL PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE ALWAYS WILLING TO ASSIST, HASHEM SHOULD BLESS THEM FOR THEIR KINDNESS AND GENEROSITY. AND OF COURSE I RELY ON THE COMMUNITY FOR THEIR KINDNESS AND GENEROSITY.

I DON'T HAVE A HORSE IN THIS RACE, I DO WHAT I FEEL HASHEM GUIDES ME TO DO, IN ORDER TO HELP PEOPLE. SO THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW ME, KNOW WHY THIS HURTS ME AND WHY I AM FIGHTING THIS BATTLE. THOSE WHO DON'T MUST THINK I AM A LUNATIC.

So now, there is a fine gentleman from Boro Park (no, it is not an oxymoron) who is a smart businessman, and wants to buy GG. So now we become anti semites. IT IS WRONG TO PUT DOWN THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS COMING IN TO BUY THE STORE, WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM, HOWEVER ANOTHER BLOGGER GAVE SOME INPUT ON HIM ON AN EARLIER POST. THERE ARE BAD FEELINGS HERE AND SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FEEL DISLOYAL TO THE BOLLENDERS IF WE PATRONIZE AND SUPPORT THIS NEW BUYER. WE WILL HAVE TO HEAR FROM THE BOLLENDERS ON THIS. IN REGARD TO THE NASTY THINGS THAT WERE SAID, I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE NASTY THINGS PEOPLE SAY ON BLOGS.


I find it mind boggling that so many, educated, professional people, become deaf when they are told something they do not want to hear. YES WELL WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD YOUR RAV SAY IT WAS OK TO GO TO THE MOVIES OR THEATER? OR TO GO TO A CONCERT WHERE WOMEN ARE PERFORMING? OR EVEN TO GO OUT TO DINNER WITH MORE THAN ONE OR TWO COUPLES? ASK YOUR RAV- ALL THESE THINGS ARE ASSUR, YET NO ONE LISTENS TO THEIR RAV ABOUT ANY OF THESE THINGS AND NO ONE CONSIDERS IT CHUTZPA OR NOT HAVING DERECH ERETZ FOR THE RAV BY IGNORING HIM ABOUT THAT? HOW ABOUT THE WAY WE COVER OUR HAIR, HOW MUCH HAIR BEING LEFT OUT IS TOO MUCH, OR EXACTLY HOW OPEN CAN THE BLOUSE REALLY BE, OR IS THE SKIRT COVERING THE KNEE OR REALLY BELOW THE KNEE? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HEAR YOUR RAV'S OPINION AND PSAK ABOUT ALL THESE ISSUES? DON'T JUST PICK THIS ISSUE TO DISCUSS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT YOUR RAV ON A PEDESTAL AND SAY YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS, THEN BY ALL MEANS LISTEN TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS.

AND OF COURSE I AGREE WITH YOU THAT JEWS SHOULD NOT FIGHT AMONGST EACH OTHER. I WOULD ASK YOU THOUGH, THAT YOU REREAD YOUR POSTS SO THAT YOU CAN SEE IF YOU YOURSELF SOUND LIKE YOU ARE JUDGING AND FIGHTING WITH YOUR FELLOW JEWS WHILE TRYING TO PROVE YOUR POINT.

SHERREE

12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it mind boggling that so many, educated, professional people, become deaf when they are told something they do not want to hear.

It's not really that mindboggling, since there aren't very many people taking the "anti-vaad" position. It's just a vocal few.

12:20 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

"I find it mind boggling that so many, educated, professional people, become deaf when they are told something they do not want to hear.

YES WELL WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD YOUR RAV SAY IT WAS OK TO GO TO THE MOVIES OR THEATER? OR TO GO TO A CONCERT WHERE WOMEN ARE PERFORMING? OR EVEN TO GO OUT TO DINNER WITH MORE THAN ONE OR TWO COUPLES? ASK YOUR RAV- ALL THESE THINGS ARE ASSUR, YET NO ONE LISTENS TO THEIR RAV ABOUT ANY OF THESE THINGS AND NO ONE CONSIDERS IT CHUTZPA OR NOT HAVING DERECH ERETZ FOR THE RAV BY IGNORING HIM ABOUT THAT? HOW ABOUT THE WAY WE COVER OUR HAIR, HOW MUCH HAIR BEING LEFT OUT IS TOO MUCH, OR EXACTLY HOW OPEN CAN THE BLOUSE REALLY BE, OR IS THE SKIRT COVERING THE KNEE OR REALLY BELOW THE KNEE? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HEAR YOUR RAV'S OPINION AND PSAK ABOUT ALL THESE ISSUES? DON'T JUST PICK THIS ISSUE TO DISCUSS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT YOUR RAV ON A PEDESTAL AND SAY YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS, THEN BY ALL MEANS LISTEN TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS."

Leaving aside the fact that people should listen to their Rabbonim about all of the above, there is really quite the qualitative difference between these items, which basically consist of not following halacha properly (and if you asked your Rav, he'd tell you the halcha), and the GG/Vaad issue, where the Rabbonim took a public stand on an issue and there was a power struggle between them and GG. To go shop at GG despite the public statements of the Rabbonim pulling the hechsher is far more egregious than your usual imperfect observance of halacha. In this context, you are taking an action that will be seen as an explicit rejection of what the Rabbonim have said, given the public nature of the matter.

(Disclaimer: All references to you and your are general and not addressed to any specific person)

12:21 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

I guess the USDA doesn't work their Kosher inspectors all that hard. How else would Broken-CAP guy have so much time to spray his particularly loony spittle all over this comment string?

12:23 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"You are one of the belittlers yourself."

FYI, I 'belittler' is like a 'decider'.

12:24 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...



So your rav is saying it was about kashrus? That's interesting! So your rav said that everything was kosher up until 4 pm on black Friday and then at 4:01 it wasn't anymore?

Everyone accepted the fact that kashruth was not the issue and now you're telling us your rav said it was!!! So, what about the pots and pans?



I think there's a basic misunderstanding here. You say that the fact that there were trust issues that may not have directly related to whether the food being sold was kosher has nothing whatsoever to do with Kashrut. However, my Rav and apparently the Vaad, beg to differ. They evidently feel that they cannot provide kosher supervision to someone with whom there has been a breach of trust in any arena as long as he has control of the store. That seems to have plenty to do with Kashrut.

12:54 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

YES WELL WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD YOUR RAV SAY IT WAS OK TO GO TO THE MOVIES OR THEATER? OR TO GO TO A CONCERT WHERE WOMEN ARE PERFORMING? OR EVEN TO GO OUT TO DINNER WITH MORE THAN ONE OR TWO COUPLES? ASK YOUR RAV- ALL THESE THINGS ARE ASSUR, YET NO ONE LISTENS TO THEIR RAV ABOUT ANY OF THESE THINGS AND NO ONE CONSIDERS IT CHUTZPA OR NOT HAVING DERECH ERETZ FOR THE RAV BY IGNORING HIM ABOUT THAT? HOW ABOUT THE WAY WE COVER OUR HAIR, HOW MUCH HAIR BEING LEFT OUT IS TOO MUCH, OR EXACTLY HOW OPEN CAN THE BLOUSE REALLY BE, OR IS THE SKIRT COVERING THE KNEE OR REALLY BELOW THE KNEE? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HEAR YOUR RAV'S OPINION AND PSAK ABOUT ALL THESE ISSUES? DON'T JUST PICK THIS ISSUE TO DISCUSS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT YOUR RAV ON A PEDESTAL AND SAY YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS, THEN BY ALL MEANS LISTEN TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS.

Way to tar the whole community here. How do you know that many people who follow the directives of their Rabbanim on this do not follow it on many other issues? I am quite sure that Rabbi Hain, who stood with the Vaad on their decision, does not tell his community that they may not go to movies or concerts. Quite sure.

12:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will shop in GG today as I have been for the last many weeks. I go every weds night with VAAD or no VAAD.
I will NOT give any money to the fund drives for the VAAD and will hope others who are as unhappy as i am will do the same. It is sad that the VAAD has won.

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will shop in GG today as I have been for the last many weeks. I go every weds night with VAAD or no VAAD. I will NOT give any money to the fund drives for the VAAD and will hope others who are as unhappy as i am will do the same. It is sad that the VAAD has won.

You're a disgrace. Where's your Bolender spirit? There's no excuse for your continuing to shop there after the ownership changes. You'll be indirectly supporting the vaad in the worst possible way.

1:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Way to tar the whole community here. How do you know that many people who follow the directives of their Rabbanim on this do not follow it on many other issues? I am quite sure that Rabbi Hain, who stood with the Vaad on their decision, does not tell his community that they may not go to movies or concerts. Quite sure.


Are we picking apart the vaad and the group of rabbanim or are we still generalizing and calling them "ALL" the rabbonim. You can't have it both ways. But there were discussions about tznius in the past and they fell on deaf ears.

1:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just received the article forwarded from the white shul. I am saddened at the conclusion of this story and no matter how nice Mayer Fertig puts words to paper, the Bollenders lost the battle to a dangerous and egotistical individual. I learnt from this instance not to trust this person and I am now wary of the entire VAAD. I found things out during this investigation that doesn't sit well with me as a Jew and not as a bookkeeper. I do not support an organization that allowed the community to believe it was non-profit, and that it was run under standardized rules and regulations. I do not support an organization that is "closed" for the holidays and whose "chief" is not the most knowledgeable person available for the job. I do not support an organization who does not respond to inquiries. I do not support an organization who does not follow the laws of the land of which I as well as any other organization must strictly follow. I do not support an organization that will allow humiliating tactics not only for this business but for one of their own members (i.e. Rabbi Chait). And I certainly do not support an organization that can allow their hired employee to dictate to them what can and will be done. In my book and in all my years as office manager and running an office, the boss who hires the employee, and in this case over 30 bosses could have brought this to a more sensible conclusion 6 weeks ago had they not allowed the employee to run the show.

Someone mentioned that we should not have voted this VAAD in, we didn't and we cannot vote this VAAD out. But we can show our displeasure with the way it is run. If we are the ones supporting it and funding it by way of our "donations" and by paying for it through our purchases in each store it supervises, then we need to make our voices very clear. I will say it again. I respect all of our Rabbonim in this community, but this incident absolutely proves to me that the VAAD haKashrus needs to be completely revamped and reorganized with a NEW Rav Hamachsir. Someone that is voted in by the community and someone that has been checked out thoroughly by the community.

We should wipe the slate clean. The Bollenders are out and so should the other party in the conflict be out. New owners are coming and a new Rav Hamachsher should be comig in as well. The only reason he had the gall to run this family out of town was that no one had stamina to stand up to him and stop him when he was doing it to Rabbi Chait. We all know that things happen in threes. Who will be his next victim? I don't trust this man and I never will again. The VAAD teudah means nothing to me. I will continue to go to the back of every establishment and speak directly to the mashgiach himself.

Hatzlocha to all of us and may Hashem forgive us.

Sherree

2:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sherree-

I think you need to take a cigarette break- too much anger and hatred bottled up in one person is dangerous!

3:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

now that this loshon hara is coming to a close- what's the next one that you bloggers are going to spend your time on?

how about tuition?
black hats?
sheitals?
The Aguda?
Sex Offenders?

3:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To MOMof4


The original post I replied to said:
Am I supposed to be somehow upset that the Vaad members, a large and diverse group of community rabbis, decided that someone who they felt was unable to keep the Kashrut levels of the store up to snuff should no longer have a hands-on relationship with my meat supply?


This paragraph suggests that the Rabbonim took their action because the level of kashrut was not being maintained. This is not so. They took their action because the owner of the store, over time, proved himself to be someone to whom they would not have granted hashgacha had they known then what they know now. It isn't a kashruth issue it's a trust issue and the two, though surely enwtined are different especially when a kashruth problem would have had to be addressed in a very different manner.

3:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will continue to go to the back of every establishment and speak directly to the mashgiach himself.

Good luck finding him.

3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please don't consider boycotting the new owners! Mr Kauftheil is a very well respected businessman who has handled himself impeccably. Don't let the remaining Bolenders witness the destruction of the business their father was zocher to build. If they are staying on then lets support them-I know I will! But let us show our dissatisfaction with the Vaad by refusing to support them with our $$ unless they choose a new Rav Hamachshir who can be trusted to rule fairly and without malice or injustice. I believe that RYE will eventually suffer just as he caused that family to suffer. I only hope I live long enough to see it.

3:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Was Rabbi Lefkowitz the unnamed rabbi that signed the letter and advised the Bolenders?

3:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DAG said...
A few questions about a Boro Park GG....

1) Will they import rude people from Brooklyn to shop? BROOKLYNITES ARE SMART EN0UGH TO STAY OUT OF THE 5T. TOO EXPENSIVE
2) Will shoppers need to learn Yiddish...or will Yinglish suffice? LAWN GUYLANDESE IS FINE
3) Will the perquisite dirt be imported from Boro Park? DESIGNER DIRT FOR 5T-ERS
4) Is there a market for Chassidishe Shechita in the 5 towns? UH. YEAH.
5) Do we have enough 80 year old women in the 5 towns to work the deli and continually ask, "what else?" 5T WOMEN WORK?
6) Will sales tax become optional? DAG CAN PAY IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE
7) Will they open a lingerie shop? HUH?
8) Will they add a stroller parking lot for strollers and babies? NOT NEEDED IN 5T CUZ MULTIPLE NANNIES ARE HOME WITH THE BABIES

3:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE VAAD WON---

3:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A note to Sherree Belsky:

I will agree that you are courageous for speaking out in your own name. I also think you have major rage issues. Your ranting is uncalled for and extremely vindictive. You rant and rage about the Loshon Hora being spoken here, yet you feel no restraint from saying unspeakably harsh things about our Rabbanim and most of all Rabbi Eisen. You've gone so far as to crow about your hopes of Rav Eisen being investigated by the IRS. The level of Loshon Hora that you spoke here was astonishing in its vindictiveness and the unbalanced way you expressed it.

You need to seriously calm down and think before you type. You say you are saddened by what has happened to this great community. Yet you are doing more to stir this up and cast stones at your neighbors than anyone here.

Gourmet Glatt needed rational, reasonable people to speak its case. Unfortunately, I wish they had gotten that.

3:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

makes me sick!!!!

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sherree-

I think you need to take a cigarette break- too much anger and hatred bottled up in one person is dangerous!

Sorry, I don't own too many vices, don't drink, don't drug and don't smoke. Really I am not angry and I don't hate anyone. I am hurt and very disappointed.

Sherree

4:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

. You rant and rage about the Loshon Hora being spoken here, yet you feel no restraint from saying unspeakably harsh things about our Rabbanim WHAT I SAID ABOUT OUR RABBONIM IS THAT I HAD THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR THEM, HOWEVER I BELIEVE THEY WERE MISLED AND SAW ONLY WHAT THEY WERE MEANT TO SEE, HOW UNSPEAKABLE AND HARSH WAS THAT?

and most of all Rabbi Eisen MY OPINION OF RABBI EISEN STEMS FROM HIS RESPONSE TO A QUESTION POSED TO HIM IN FRONT OF ME BY MY HUSBAND. THE TONE AND MANNER OF HIS RESPONSE SHOWED THAT HE HAD AN AX TO GRIND WITH THIS FAMILY AND GAVE ME THE IMPUTUS TO INVESTIGATE THE MATTER. HAD HE ANSWERED MY HUSBAND THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW OR WAS NOT AT LIBERTY TO DISCUSS IT, I WOULD HAVE HAD THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR THE MAN AND WOULD HAVE JUST STAYED OUT OF THE WHOLE ISSUE. IT IS HE HIMSELF WHO MADE ME SUSPICIOUS AND MADE ME BELIEVE THE BOLLENDERS WHEN THEY SAID HE HAD A VENDETTA AGAINST THEM.

You've gone so far as to crow about your hopes of Rav Eisen being investigated by the IRS. AGAIN YOU MISREAD AND MISQUOTE. I SAID THAT I HEARD THAT SOMEONE OR SOMEHOW THE IRS GOT WIND OF WHAT THE VAAD WAS UP TO AND THEY ARE NOW UNDER THE SCRUTINIY OF THE IRS. DO NOT CREDIT ME WITH THIS OCCURENCE SINCE I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AND WOULD NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SUCH A THING. AS I SAID EARLIER I HAVE A GRIEVANCE AND I KNOW HOW TO WITHDRAW MY SUPPORT. I ASKED YID WITH LID NOT TO POST ANYTHING I WRITE IN THE JEWISH WORLD OR THE NY TIMES BECAUSE THEY ARE JEW HATERS AND I AM NOT INTERESTED IN BRINGING IN ANY MORE SCRUTINY TO OUR SMALL COMMUNITY.

SO ANON, MAYBE IT IS YOU WHO SHOULD BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU POST AND WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

Sherree

4:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
Please don't consider boycotting the new owners! Mr Kauftheil is a very well respected businessman who has handled himself impeccably. Don't let the remaining Bolenders witness the destruction of the business their father was zocher to build. If they are staying on then lets support them-I know I will! But let us show our dissatisfaction with the Vaad by refusing to support them with our $$ unless they choose a new Rav Hamachshir who can be trusted to rule fairly and without malice or injustice. I believe that RYE will eventually suffer just as he caused that family to suffer. I only hope I live long enough to see it. "

3:33 PM


I wholeheartedly agree with this poster.. to boycott the new owner is ridiculous..he did nothing wrong. Two of the Bolenders will be there...dont hurt them further by avoiding the store..

Also, our gripes are with our own vaad...boycott THEM by refusing to give your shul fees to them..force them to produce an audited annual report of where all our money goes..Demand that your dues NOT include a VAAD fee. that is how intelligent people handle a conflict like this. In America, we VOTE our choices; we also vote with our wallets; maybe issues with the vaad should be a voting scenario in the future.. MY personal gut feeling is that this will all be forgotten in a few weeks and a legacy of business ownership will still have been destroyed. How sad..

4:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I told you all the chassidim will be coming to the 5 Towns.

get ready for posters on all the streetlights and billboards on the walls.

4:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 3:51 is right. I respect you for all you do for the kids and others in the 5T, and I admire you for printing your name. However, that does not give you the right to denigrate anybody like you have done. Yes, there are Rabbis that did not sign the Vaad letter, but I do not think it was because they thought the Bolenders were right. It was becasue of the long time financial relationship their institutions had with GG. most of them date back to their father's time and they could not do anything to hurt the Bolenders.
I really feel bad for you, that you are letting your emotions get in the way.
I would like you to post your Hebrew name and your mother's Hebrew name, so that we can all daven for you to rid yourself of your blinding anger, and return to doing good for Klal Yisrael.
Anon 10:56

4:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One more question for all you VAAD supporters because I am baffled. The meat, chicken and prepared foods are assered today and are deemed "not kosher" under Rabbi Kravitz hashgacha, but tomorrow with the changing of the guard, the magical vaad sticker goes back on the door and everything in the store magically becomes kosher again.

Do you really think that all the deliveries that was received up til that point is going to get dumped? Or Rabbi Eisen is going to come in and walk up and down the isles, and meat showcases personally and sprinkle kosher dust on everything and make a super duper holier than thou brocha to make it kosher from Wednesday night to Thursday morning?

How exactly does that work, and how can any of you explain it to me? Unless that store is emptied to the bare walls and all new merchandise is brought in, and everything there is washed down and KASHERED, I stand by everything I said. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KASHRUS, AND ANYONE WHO HAS SHOPPED IN THE STORE ALL ALONG DID THE RIGHT THING. THERE WAS NO REASON TO BOYCOTT.

Sherree

4:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Sherree, the Bolenders and the good people of this area applaud you for all you have tried to do to right a terrible injustice. I know you to be a sincere individual bent on doing the right thing.. and your battle against the vaad was the right thing... the oppression of jews is always present; it was disgusting that it was jew against jew in this case.. i know this comment will net about 100 + but always know YOU did the right thing in every case. you will be in my prayers. Malkie

4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am so sad that the VAAD won. I hope many besides myself will think twice and lethere money talk loud.

Sheree you have my respect and you should be proud.

4:50 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

Sherree - No one ever said the store was not kosher under R' Kravitz. The reason not to shop there was to support the principle of having only one Vaad in the 5 Towns - which is important as a larger matter. The Kashrus issue is what caused the whole thing in the first place, but was not the reason to avoid shopping at GG after the Vaad pulled its hechsher. that does not mean that the Kashrus was a non-issue, just that it was the background for the entire dispute and not the direct reason for the boycott.

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I apologze to all those who think I am mean-spirited or angry. I call it as I see it. I feel badly for the family, I fear who might be the next victim and I only want the best for this community.

I am not angry and I give up the battle. I don't run the community, I don't claim to and wouldn't want to. Believe me I have enough on my plate without additional headaches and responsibilites. I did the best I could to help in this situation and it is over. I will NOT fight the VAAD and I will not fight RYE. I have no respect for the man and I will not support the organization, period end of the story. There is no bitterness, there is no anger, there is no resentment. I will continue to work with every RAV who has helped me in the past and continued to work with me throughout this whole mess. The Rabbonim were not the issue. Please don't put words in my mouth, please don't misquote me and please don't tell me how I feel or what my emotions are. I am in complete control of all of the above.

Thank you all again,

Sherree

4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The vaad won? Rabbi Eisin won? How about WE won. There will be another lovely food establishment under the vaad which means that I can go in there and shop without worry. Not pay the vaad dues??? I paid up with pleasure already and I think all of you should do the same.If you need a reliable hechsher to eat or shop somewhere then you use the vaad. Not to pay your dues is genevah. If you don't need a hechsher that's o.k. too. It's your business. I'm obviously not eating by you. To those of you who claim that your Rabbeim did not speak to you about this matter, if you went in with your mind ( or lack thereof) made up, what would you have liked him to do? Convince you? Why is that necessary? Either you trust your Rabbi or you don't. If you don't find one that you do. If you can't then move to someplace that is more your style. I have plenty of friends looking for houses.

4:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sara Henya bas Malka, daven for me anyway!!! I could use all the help that I can get.

Sherree

5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

one VAAD is a lot a crap
you are very missinformed,
Zomicks has the vaad and the "o" "k" as does others!

AS a community we all lost very big time.
I worked for many years in the food industry, i speak from first hand information. I think you are following blindly and while it is not the same as europe in the 1930 when (as many have said)some of ourgrandparents listened to the rabbis and were told not to leave, it is a very big mistake.
Learn from mistake of our parents, the ones who thank g-d made it out of europe!
We need voices like Sheree

5:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you are following blindly and while it is not the same as europe in the 1930 when (as many have said)some of ourgrandparents listened to the rabbis and were told not to leave, it is a very big mistake.
Learn from mistake of our parents, the ones who thank g-d made it out of europe!


how many times are you going to compare this to the holocaust. enough

5:18 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

Anon 5:16 - There is a pretty significat difference between Zomick's (and any other multi-hechsher establishment) and GG. In GG's case the second Hechsher was brought in as a (preemptive) replacement for the Vaad. In the other cases, the second hechsher is there for people with higher standards than the Vaad, not as a backup in case the Vaad pulls its Hechsher.

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to sheree 4:57 pm

it was absolutely all the rabbonims fault they organized the boycott eisen doesn't have a shul in the 5t

i am sick to my stomach about this

5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sheree Belsky if you think you didnt speak more loshon hora here than just about anyone else on this blog you are very forgetful. for a taste of what courageous Sherree had to say on this thread:

"I will say that I did my best to speak the truth and not spread Loshon Horah,"

"and the VAAD or rather the head of the VAAD twisted it around to make it look tricky and sleezy."


"I also heard that some of the so called "overwhelming support" for the VAAD reached the ears of the IRS and they are currently under scrutiny and soon to be investigated. Hashem works in mysterious ways and has a very funny sense of humor. It will be interesting to see if RYE has as creative an accountant as he does a lawyer."

"[RYE]Spreading loshon horah and being motzi shem rah, as he was with me,"

"IT WAS BECAUSE RYE WAS STUBBORN AND UNMOVING FROM HIS MISSION TO PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS."

"the Bollenders lost the battle to a dangerous and egotistical individual. I learnt from this instance not to trust this person and I am now wary of the entire VAAD."

"I do not support an organization that will allow humiliating tactics not only for this business but for one of their own members (i.e. Rabbi Chait)."

"Who will be his next victim? I don't trust this man and I never will again."

What did you say about how sad it was that this community is torn apart from this? Thanks for contributing so generously to that. And what did you say about doing your best not to speak loshon horah?

Sheree, you have acted badly here.

5:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sheree, I mean this with all due respect, I really do. I know you only from your posts on the 5 Towns Shul List, and you seem to be doing everything for everybody. That said, you stated a few comments up that R' Eisen had "an ax to grind" with the Bolenders. I'm curious where you think that came from. R' Eisen did not win anything from this scenario. Aside from his name being dragged through the mud on the street, in the blogosphere and in print, the Vaad must have lost tens of thousands of dollars by pulling this Hechsher. What personal gain could R' Eisen have possibly made from this? I have never met the man, and had heard nothing of him until this saga, so I am certainly not defending him, but I would've thought it would've been in his own best interests to work this out before it deteriorated so badly. Why do you think otherwise, Sheree? How do you think this served him?

6:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Zomick's (and any other multi-hechsher establishment) and GG. In GG's case the second Hechsher was brought in as a (preemptive) replacement for the Vaad. "In the other cases, the second hechsher is there for people with higher standards than the Vaad, not as a backup in case the Vaad pulls its Hechsher.( AS STATED EARLIER)


aCCORDING TO many posters, THERE IS NO HIGHER STANDARDS THAN OUR VAAD" hOW hypocritical of you all!!

5:32 PM

6:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

by the way, i understand the vaad collects their fee upfront on a quarterly basis. so GG paid for oct, nov and dec. Anyone want to bet that the vaad DOES NOT reimburse the bolenders for services no rendered?????

6:20 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


aCCORDING TO many posters, THERE IS NO HIGHER STANDARDS THAN OUR VAAD" hOW hypocritical of you all!!


Great. Just great. Now I have commenters leaving ransom notes.

6:20 PM  
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6:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

very funny, OM, i meant bloggers, not posters.. im glad yu have a sense of humor.. but my meaning was clear, i hope.

6:26 PM  
Blogger whatisis said...

It is truly amazing. At 7:46 am this morning I wrote about how we should please try to calm down, believe in G-d and stop talking about all the wrong that was done. Since then so much hate has been voiced here, so much anger. Some are even comparing this to the holocaust.
This blog thank G-d does not represent the community; it mostly represents some very bored and frustrated people with too much time on the hands. Please accept my apology for saying this but read some of what has been written today and you will see the anger and hate plainly.
If this is what it is all about, let’s change the subject.
All those writing here about how we should calm down, should step away from their computers and go study something or practice some yoga. All those who are expounding hate and fear should go jogging or some other work out. Let’s all take a deep breath.

6:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wish you would all just grow up. The VAAD removed it's hechsher from a particular store. Conspiracy theories abounded.! If you trusted your Rabbi, you didn't shop there. If you had a bone to pick, you shopped there l'hachis. Fine.The store did not comply, it lost it's hechsher. It tried to get around that, it didn't work. They saw that they couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again so they sold. I hope they made a lot of money. Why not, it's a beautiful shop. The new owners deserve your business just like any store deserves your business. Go or don't go it's up to you. I wish the preaching and vilifying of individuals and the VAAD would just stop.

6:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who cares about pulling the hechsher? the only thing that i can't understand is the chutzpah of the boycott

remmember RA Bonim ( bad Children) what goes around comes around and hell it will get to you guys

6:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

all 50 of them

6:44 PM  
Anonymous farrockgrandma said...

It is very distressing to see that one or more members of our community see fit to smear, slander, and denigrate the Vaad of the Five Towns. I have always felt that they were a credit to our community and a symbol of achdus. The rabbis are human beings, but from everything I've seen here in the past they make a real effort to behave fairly and not to make hasty decisions.
As for their sad conclusion that they could not continue to certify Gourmet Glatt, I am sure it was not made lightly. Yes, there are occasional slips in any large establishment, but attitudes and respect make a huge difference in maintaining a working relationship.
The Vaad really had nothing to gain by pulling their hechsher. Besides the loss of income from the GG contract, there was a possibility that the store would successfully continue under another hechsher, and dilute the authority and influence of the Vaad.
Consider this - the Vaad gave GG months to consider a change in management or a change in supervision. Worst case, if the store would be sold, the time frame allowed the owners to exit without a major monetary loss.
Gourmet Glatt could hardly have botched things up worse.
First, instead of quietly trying to resolve their problems and lining up a new hashgacha to take over at the end of the contract, they jumped in with a new hechsher and large ads announcing the arrangement. With the stories that had circulated about mislabeled poultry, the broadcast that they would now have two hashgachas dropped a tiny hint that the first was responsible for some inadequate supervision. They gave an interview to the Jewish Week claiming that it was all politics - the fact that the hechsher was not pulled immediately was their proof. Then, after weeks of slandering the Vaad and putting their version out to the public, they took out full page ads asking everyone to refrain from speaking loshon hora. Cute!
No one told me to avoid shopping at the store. I may not have shopped in the meat department, but the bakery and fish department are as good as ever, the produce is excellent, and the packaged goods just as kosher as Stop and Shop. I was so offended by GG's loshon hora that I didn't want to go in there.
I am sure that they have many loyal customers, and I hope they will be satisfied with the new arrangement.
But GG and Supersol both tend to be very overpriced on items other than the advertised specials. I've found Brach's to be a bit fairer in that respect.
As for the local rabbis advising their congregants on where to spend their money - we should be turning to them for advice on matters of kashrus and hashkafa. You are free to ignore them and shop wherever you choose - but publicly challenging and berating them for taking a stand is very wrong.
Whether the Vaad's standards lined up perfectly with my own doesn't matter. I have been satisfied and proud to be part of a community with such an organization, and happy knowing that wherever I shop here, or where I take a guest out to eat, they will be comfortable with the kashrut.
Let's move forward from this point, and wish the best to the Bolenders and to the new owners.

8:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

shame on the five towns
shame on the ra bonim
shame on all the residents
may hashem repay those who ate others hearts out.

amen
amen

8:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That said, you stated a few comments up that R' Eisen had "an ax to grind" with the Bolenders. I'm curious where you think that came from.


I am not going to reiterate again because I have so many people here who are so willing to go and misquote me, but I do stand behind everything I said. If you look up the posts you will see that I had a conversation with RYE that opened my eyes to that fact.

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sheree, you have acted badly here.

I am sorry you feel that way, but you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

8:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

cbs 2 news will air this whole story very soon

i have contacted the post as well and the ny times.

shame on you!!

8:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK guys, its over. I will say it again. I will shout it if necessary.

I, SHERREE BELSKY, RESPECT AND ADMIRE ALL THE RABBONIM IN THIS COMMUNITY. I DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THEM. I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH AN ORGANIZATION AND WITH ONE PARTICULAR PERSON WHO RUNS THE ORGANIZATION WHO DOESN'T HAPPEN TO BE A RAV IN THIS COMMUNITY.

I am asking you all to stop saying terrible things about our Rabbonim. I am begging you to stop saying terrible things about the Rabbonim in this community. I do not blame them, I personally feel they made a mistake.

If you do blame them I ask you to forgive them because they are, have always been and will continue to be the hardest group of Rabbonim that have ever worked together for the benefit of any community.

The Bollenders have a lot of bitachon and emunah. They believed that the outcome of this story was in the hands of Hashem and that they would accept Hashem's verdict in the end. So it is time we put it to rest. If the new owners are as upstanding as they are supposed to be, and the Bollender family encourages me to shop at the New Gourmet Glatt, I will shop there in spite of RYE.

8:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so can we buy hot challah there this week yet?

9:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard the Hasgacha is back as of tonite!

9:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the bakery better have enough challah this week.

i have been shopping at the bakery all along
they did nothing wrong they are innocent victims

we should all patronize them

9:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I will shop in GG today as I have been for the last many weeks. I go every weds night with VAAD or no VAAD. I will NOT give any money to the fund drives for the VAAD and will hope others who are as unhappy as i am will do the same. It is sad that the VAAD has won.

You're a disgrace. Where's your Bolender spirit? There's no excuse for your continuing to shop there after the ownership changes. You'll be indirectly supporting the vaad in the worst possible way.

PLEASE DO NOT BOYCOTT THE NEW OWNER IN SUPPORT OF THE BOLENDERS...I PERSONALLY SPOKE TO ONE OF THEM. THEY ALSO WANT EVERYONE TO CONTINUE TO SHOP AND TO THOSE WHO WILL RETURN SINCE THE HECHSHER HAS RETURNED. THE BOLENDERS WHO WILL STILL REMAIN DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE SUCCESS OF THE STORE UNDER THE NEW OWNERS.. THEY HAVE SAID THAT THE NEW OWNER DID WHAT NO ONE ELSE COULD DO----GET RYE TO AGREE TO THE SALE OF GG WHILE THERE WAS STILL A BUSINESS TO SELL. YOOUR GRIPE SHOULD NOT BE WITH THE NEW OWNER (HE IS A MENSCH) YOUR GRIPE SHOULD BE TOWARDS THE INDIVIDUAL WHO CREATED THE TUMULT.. SEE YOOU AT GG TOMORROW.. MALKIE

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't know that the OK was a higher standard than anybody.
The RA-BONIM term was plagiarized from me.I have also invented "THE TALISBAN" and "THE AYATORAS".
Please give credit when it is due.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now that the vaad will be certifying GG lets wait to see if they are quick to issue a public letter to the community, signed by all of their rabbanim, informing the community that they are recertifying GG, as they were so quick to do to inform us that they were no longer certifying the store.

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

probably not!

they claim they feel sorry for all those who suffered even innocent victoms but thats the best they can do is feel sorry

imaging that? how feelingless?

11:42 PM  
Anonymous michelle said...

I agree with with annonymous that the Vaad is a mafia entity, I think all establishments should boycott THEM.

11:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what goes around comes around

i sure hope the rabonim are ready
and have there bank accounts full
because sooner or later they will feel it, becaus it will come around!

12:01 AM  

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