Nice
The NY Times has another story about a Chabad Rabbi having his request rejected to display a Menorah alongside a Christmas tree in a public space. In this case, the group who denied his request didn't remove the trees in this story (like they did here). However, the denial of the Rabbi's request seems to have summoned up an outpouring of communal support for the Rabbi from some unexpected places:
Many residents of Fort Collins, the home of Colorado State University, were angered by the city’s decision and have responded with a campaign of support for the city’s Jewish residents, who number only a few thousand in a total population of about 137,000. In a show of solidarity, some non-Jewish residents and a growing list of businesses are displaying menorahs in their windows.It's nice to see that we can find the spirit of tolerance and togetherness somewhere these days.
“I think the City Council is trying to cover themselves legally, but they’re shortsighted about the long-term implications of how this impacts groups,” said Jill Kuhn, a psychologist here who is not Jewish. “We’re going to put a menorah in our window, and we’re going to light it. We hope other people do that too.”
This year, as it did last year, CooperSmith’s Pub and Brewing, which sits on Old Town Square, has allowed the rabbi to move the menorah to its grounds, where it will remain for the duration of Hanukkah.
“We’re not in agreement with the City Council’s decisions,” said Ted Devitt, managing partner of CooperSmith’s. “It’s not what we thought the community stands for.”
posted by orthomom at 12:33 AM
7 Comments:
i agree that it's nice to see the level of solidarity here (though i don't think it's as rare as you imply), but in light of your prior post i assume you're also bothered as non-jews using the menorah as a sign of togetherness further secularizes the menorah which bothered u.
i assume you're also bothered as non-jews using the menorah as a sign of togetherness further secularizes the menorah which bothered u.
Not quite as bothered as I was by the fact that an Orthodox Rabbi was making the case that the Menorah was secular. I don't see the people here taking a stand on the secular status of the menorah one way or the other. Of course the fact that the Menorah is displayed in holiday displays the world over secularizes it to an extent, but to me not nearly as much as Rabbi Bogomilsky did.
you think one chabbad rabbi saying the menorah is a secular symbol will secularize the menorah more than communities of non-jews using the menorah to show solidarity with a jewish community? i dont think that makes much sense.
this is why i personally couldnt care less about the secularizing of a menorah. a) it's already been done for the most part. b) for observant jews it will always be a religious object/symbol (except chabbad who secularize succas, tefillin and e/t else already anyway).
This year, as it did last year, CooperSmith’s Pub and Brewing, which sits on Old Town Square, has allowed the rabbi to move the menorah to its grounds, where it will remain for the duration of Hanukkah.
See, there's enough privately-owned space in the "public realm" that there is really no need for these religious displays to be placed on public property. Kol HaKovod CooprSmith's Pub! Now, are you offering specials on Macabbee beer during the holiday?
Because I believe that Christmas trees are totally secularized, I would have no problem with them, or toher seasonal greenery being displayed on government property, but I would go ballistic at a creche ("manger scene"). I might tolerate a menorah as long as it was halachially invalid (i.e. electrically lit), was being displayed as a national/cultural symbol and no religious ritual were being performed in a way that might suggest government sponsorship.
I also have no problem with individual politicians participating in public religious ceremonies. They should be allowed to do all the pandering they think they need, as it really is a way they can show their personal respect to various religious communities.
As for public displays of actual religious ritual symbols, well, churches, mosques, and synagogues all own their own property, so I don't see why this is a problem.
A couple of interesting things about the story (after I've read it.)
1) They allowed a menorah-lighting ceremony on the square, an actual religious ritual. Then they got cold feet about leaving the thing for the 8 days.
2) The city claims the tree is secular, whereas the menorah is part secular/part religious. Again , all chabad would need to do is install a non-halachic menorah, to be symbolic of the holiday and Jewish culture.
3) What they are worried about is the prospect of every religious group and cult coming out of the woodwork and demanding one of their religious symbols be installed, which might result in things that might be considered offensive (imagine if the Paleo-Pagan Alliance insists on erecting a giant phallus), or at the least will be very confusing and an administrative burden on the city.
"Christmas" has a lot of different meanings to non-Jewish Americans. For some, of course, it's a Christian holiday, no more, no less, for others, it's merely their cultural heritage. Because it's so pervasive, no wonder the local authorities decorate government owned spaces, and why shouldn't they? This is something that 99% (OK, maybe 95%) of the population celebrates, even atheists.
The Jewish angst about this got started 10 years ago because clueless (or maybe they had an evangelizing agenda) authorities at public schools with student bodies that heavily consisted of immigrant Jewish kids, were forcing these young yidden to participate in overtly Christian holiday programming. So the Jews made a stink, and who can blame them?
What this has evolved to is a bit of shtuss, if you ask me, though I do admit that I'd prefer that the government not allow any of it (except for the treee, other holiday greenery, and colored lights)unless they allow all religions and anti-religions to have their slice of the public space upon request. That includes the Pagan Phallus.
If the Christians want to have displays of Jesus, then let them put them up on the grounds of the local church, or on private property belonging to erlicher frum Christians who wish to fulfill this mitzva. If we Jews want a public menorah, well, as far as I know, Jews have full rights in this country to own property, and the last time I looked, it seems like we have been using that right. So there should be plenty of places to install menorahs in full view of the public, without involving the government.
If we are trying to make a public display to show goyim that we're part of this country, why not have the menorah installed on private property and have a ceremony/photo op for local political dignitaries to show the world that our community is considered a desirable one by the rulers of the country.
The Jewish angst about this got started 10 years ago because clueless (or maybe they had an evangelizing agenda) authorities at public schools with student bodies that heavily consisted of immigrant Jewish kids, were forcing these young yidden to participate in overtly Christian holiday programming. So the Jews made a stink, and who can blame them?
Typos are a terrible thing. I had meant that this angst started 100 years ago, during the first Roosevelt Administration, not during the Clinton Administration.
It is truly amazing OM!
There is clearly no tolerance HERE!
When Christians are willing to have a Menorah- that is tolerance somewhere.
However you can say that you are not in favor of Nativity scenes or Christmas songs right here!
What a hypocrite you are!
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