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Sunday, December 10, 2006

Agudah Leader on Kolko Arrest

Steven I. Weiss e-mails Rabbi Avi Shafran of the Agudath Israel, asking for a statement on the Kolko arrest. Rabbi Shafran responds:
Why would we have comment about the arrest of an individual? Because he was an employee, more than 30 years ago, of one of the camps we run (that have had thousands of employees over the years)? I don’t think that requires comment on our part.
We are not even a party anymore to any lawsuit filed against the accused, as I understand it. The suit of the accuser who included Camp Agudah in his action (John Doe #1) has been dismissed (without prejudice, I believe, so it can still be refiled, but hasn’t been).
????? Is Rabbi Shafran kidding with this response that somehow this issue bears no relevance to his organization?

First of all, he answers his question of "Why would we have comment about the arrest of an individual" in a very specific manner when he says "Because he was an employee, more than 30 years ago, of one of the camps we run". Um, yes.

But in addition, the fact that suddenly an Agudah spokesman is trying to distance the organization from an occurrence in the Charedi world that they would rather ignore is just laughable. When, in regards to ANY other issue facing the Charedi world, did the Agudah EVER distance themselves? They don't run blogs, yet they were concerned enough about their detrimental effect on the Charedi community to denounce them as having "declared war on Torah authority"? I see their point. I mean, what's the future of a few thousand kids left in the position to be molested when there's the undermining of Torah authority to focus on?

Or, remember this? When they decided that they would make the decision for all of the Charedi yeshivas across Brooklyn that they could not travel to Albany in support of a rally in support of a tax credit that would have helped those yeshivas most? So in that case, the activities and goings-on of a yeshiva like...say...Torah Temima would have been within the Agudah's purview - but now that the Yeshiva has been accused of harboring and covering up the existence of a molester for thirty years, the Agudah suddenly takes no responsibility whatsoever for what takes place there??

The Agudah was in a position, since this unfortunate saga of perversion and subsequent cover-ups broke, to denounce, even in a non-specific manner, such abuse in their community, and speak out to their constituents about how to prevent any such behavior in the future. Instead, they dropped the ball. Again and again. They ignored the issue at the recent Agudah convention, instead wasting their breath on a few blogs with a debatable reach. And Rabbi Shafran skirts the issue here in a unbelievably compassionless and tone-deaf disavowal of any responsibility.

I heard much cluck-clucking over the media coverage of Kolko's arrest over this past weekend. Most of the cluckers were angry at the way this has been covered up and (to borrow a particularly Agudah-ish phrase) "swept under the carpet" by higher-ups in both the Yeshiva in question as well as others in the community who had heard and ignored complaints of abuse. Others were more upset about the Chillul Hashem aspect of the Kolko arrest being plastered across the pages of every local paper and every 11 o'clock news broadcast - but even they agree that the decades of cover-up are to blame for that. Someone needs to respond to allegations aired here as to whether Torah Umesorah (who shares many board members with the Agudah), and the Agudah themselves knew about the allegations for years, and yet decided to not act - on advice of their lawyers. Rabbi Shafran's statement is decidedly inadequate.

I'm waiting to see the Agudah step up to the plate on an issue that is affecting members of their community in a real way. I fear that I will be waiting quite a long time.

111 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remenber tzitzis Sheinberg's part in this mess.Ignore that rosho nesxt time he comes to the Five Towns to sell brochos.

10:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

greatgreagreatgreat post. the agudah is spiraling into irrelevancy.

10:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

om i thought u would take the high road and ignore this whole mess. this is about allegations right now, nothing more.

10:20 AM  
Blogger DAG said...

Be careful before you call rabbi Scheinberg a Rasha based on unconfimred reports....10:16

10:22 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

om i thought u would take the high road and ignore this whole mess. this is about allegations right now, nothing more.

You are SO the problem here. "Ignoring this whole mess" is far from the "high road". Taking the high road shouldn't create collateral damage out of innocent children.Ignoring this mess has gotten us nowhere.

10:25 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"greatgreagreatgreat post. the agudah is spiraling into irrelevancy."

The aguda has long arrived at being irrlevant. Expect them to make no statements that will in anyway imply their conneciton to reality. They pride themselves on being an organization that doesn't make a move without rabbinical authority and blessing. When their policy-makers have created the problem, due to their arrogance and cluelessness, don't imagine they will sudden;y spring to life.

If I was Avi Shafran, I'd be furious that my impeccable credentials and intellect are being wasted and sullied by a bunch of freeloading, nepotistic, fearmongering, spritually abusive, out-of-touch, arrogant, ignorant fools.

10:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
If I was Avi Shafran, I'd be furious that my impeccable credentials and intellect are being wasted and sullied by a bunch of freeloading, nepotistic, fearmongering, spritually abusive, out-of-touch, arrogant, ignorant fools."

But instead, he made a clueless and defensive comment which makes his org look uncaring and dishonest. Is his intellect really as impeccable as you think, SW?

11:09 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

Yes. I think Rabbi Shafran is pretty smart. I just think he's in a rotten place right now and he has to stick to his guns. As a result, I think he's stuck making some pretty dumb statements and maybe to a degree, even buys into what he is saying.

You see, there's this concept called cognitive dissonance...

11:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why do you even care ? how does it effect your everyday life?

11:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

something curious in this whole affair. margo himself has not been seen or heard from...

11:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remenber tzitzis Sheinberg's part in this mess

Are you refering to the "gadol" who said it was מותר to rub one's erect penis against a child's body? You mean that creep?

Oh, another thing. Don't forget the Aguda's efforts to exempt themselves from reporting abusive teachers to the authorities in New York State.

Strange Bedfellows

12:39 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

This absolutely is the Agudah's business. So long as the Moetzes believes in self-policing, rather than involving the authorities, it becomes the responsibility of the organizations that they are attached to, to tell parents how they are going to guarantee their safety.

1:11 PM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

OK, guarantee was the wrong word. . . try give reasonable assurance of their children's safety.

2:02 PM  
Blogger Honestly Frum said...

Avi Shafran has put yet another nail into the coffin of the Agudah and the current "yeshivish" system as it exists. As someone else pointed out, Sharfan was only too quickly foaming at the mouth and commenting when the Lanner scandal broke that something like this could not happen in his community, all the while they were harboring molesters in their schools. I think that blood needs to spill in the form of roshei yeshiva and rabbonim responsible for allowing this sick monster to stay in a position near children being fired and forced to resign in shame. I think some of them need to go to prison as accomplices. There has been no greater chilul hashem these past few days than the NY Post reporting how it was known in the community for 20 years but covered up. The spokesman for Torah Temima is blatant LIAR- he should be disbarred. http://honestlyfrum.blogspot.com/2006/12/we-can-all-rest-easier-now-knowing.html

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Why Avi Shafran should care said...

Yeshiva-Mesivta Torah Temimah is a PK-12 private Jewish school, member of the National Society of Hebrew Day Schools. It's an all-male school with about 900 students. It also claims to be the Harvard of all RW Chareidi Yeshivos that have an affiliation with the Moetzes and the Agudah.

2:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some big rav should rule that when you get arrested, its forbidden to wear a hat and jacket.

3:00 PM  
Anonymous Click Here for Proof about Avi Shfran's shame said...

Click here for proof as to Agudath Israel’s cpmplicity in cooperaring with the Cathloic Church in blocking legislation which would have required rabbonim to report the allegations against Kolko to the proper authorities and investigators.

Agudath Israel is responsible for the abuse of the latest survivor to come forward, a 6 year old boy (now 9).

3:06 PM  
Anonymous http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2006/12/agudath_israel_.html said...

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2006/12/agudath_israel_.html

3:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Agudah doesn't want to issue a statement on its own letterhead per se, it can just as easily write it on Torah Umesorah letterhead.

4:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agudah's response is very disappointing. We are willing to sacrifice innocent people in order to preserve the fake squeaky clean frum image that we pretend to have. This attitude of the shandah syndrome prevents frum people from seeking the help that they sometimes need from their leaders and their community.

4:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, I've read all your posts. While I'm sure most of you feel you have valid points, have any of you ever attended the yeshiva like myself for 9 years and had this man as a Rebbe in Pre-1a and then following 8 years of having him as a assistant principal? I think you are all a bunch of bloggers who need to avoid lashon harah.
I admit I wasn't a big fan of Rabbi Kolko in yeshiva, since I was bullied alot by other kids and didn't feel he did enough to combat that.
But with respect to the current allegations against him, they are just that. He was foresure tough as any rebbe or assistant principal is, but he still deserves at the very least "dan l'kav zechus".
These former students may have gone off the derech or have other psychological issues, so they may have a personal vendetta on the one person who made their lives difficult in their school years.

Basically, don't jump on the lashon harah bandwagon, what will happen is all in the hands of the court system, for better or worse.
But we as Bnei Yisrael must do our part to not let this incident be a focal point for hatred.

5:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time to go after the Rabbi Enablers..from city to city..Shmuel Fuerst in Chixago, et al....

5:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The story here is not Kolko, It is the yeshiva system that let 30 years of allegations go on withot dealing with it properly. In any other school system or job for that matter, the policy would be investigate and until it is complete remove the employee form dealing with children (I guess the Congress and Foley did the same). Here, the policy was under the rug. Sad state of affairs.

5:38 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

These former students may have gone off the derech or have other psychological issues, so they may have a personal vendetta on the one person who made their lives difficult in their school years.

It's too bad that your "dan l'kav zechus" exhortation doesn't extend to the victims.

5:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

as I said earlier, it is all "allegations", it has yet to be proven. And you know foresure these "victims" are telling the truth? or maybe this is a way to get money from a yeshiva that made their lives "difficult".

I agree sexual predators need to be dealt with, but in the Kolko case, having known him for almost a decade, it is all hearsay at this point.

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

don't you get it?
This isn't about whether om thinks kolko is guilty. This is about how the agudah enables a cover up to this day, and rabbi shafrans statement just proves the agudahs complicity.

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The voice of reason. R' Scachter needs to have a heart to heart with RMS. This is required listening for every educator and parent.


http://torahweb.org/torah/audio/2006/nobodytalks/rsch_120306.mp3

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whether or not Kolko is guilty is ENTIRELY irrelevant. Enough already. The point is that decades have gone by and this "internal" imaginary system that RMS has in his head NEVER adjudicated the Kolko case one way or the other. The issue now is protecting future victims - let the court system deal with Kolko. Hopefully he's innocent and he will live a long life with the knowledge that because of false allegations made against him, the yeshiva system is a safer environment for our children. Whether or not you like Kolko or think he's guilty, shut up about Kolko and, instead, go to your child's school and ask them why they have not implemented any policies and procedures to safeguard against sexual predators. Ask them why they do not educate parents and children about abuse issues. Teach our parents the warning signs. Teach our little kids that their body is their own and they have a right to object if someone touches them.

It is so clear and obvious what must be done at this point. Stop bashing everyone and get off your fat a**es and go to Yeshiva Ketana, Darchei, Southshore, Bnos Bais Yakov, TAG, HALB, HAFTR, Shulamis, etc. and demand that they implement comprehensive policies to deal with these issues. Unless you do not care about your children and would rather debate about whether a grumpy old man is guilty. Pathetic.

6:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you can not blame an entire organization base on one sick bastards actions. maybe all MO are bad because the way MO yeshivas operate? maybe all the young israels are corrupt because some of its rabbis misappropriate funds. the list goes on who will you bash next.

6:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You stupid fool. No one is bashing the agudah for kolkos actions. Read the post and all of the comments. What is the problem here is agudahs inability to deal with the fact that abuse happens and has been covered up. For gods sakes will the agudah reps read posts before they seed defensive comments?

6:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's what someone commented on another blog...you should all read this (and think about it before you spew all of your hatred):

# Bari Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 5:40 pm

Where is the comment to this arrest of the RCA? The OU? The Edah Charedis?

What Rabbi Shafran is saying, in plain English, is “get off my case, this isn’t an Agudah affair, it is a YTT one, and why the heck would we want to stick our heads into this mess.”

You want a general statement about Rabbi Shafran’s position on child abuse, I believe he wrote something in May.

7:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
What Rabbi Shafran is saying, in plain English, is “get off my case, this isn’t an Agudah affair, it is a YTT one, and why the heck would we want to stick our heads into this mess.”"

And what we're trying to say is "tough". You speak for the haredi world on every other subject, step up to the plate on this one. Especially because, as Shafran himself points out, the Agudah employed Kolko at one of their camps.

7:16 PM  
Anonymous Chaim Rubin said...

I am so sickened by this case and this story and everything else that it bleeds onto that I feel my stomach twist and turn with every post, every article, every conversation.

I just can't beleive people, rabbi's, leaders let this happen .. I'm ebarassed for every frum Jew around the world.

Our leaders are letting us down ...

7:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NO NO. Agudah is totally involved. If they were unsatisfied with YTT's actions, they should have thrown them out as a member. As they condoned the actions and continued to employ Kolko even after allegations wee made without lifting a finger to investigate. Just because Agudah ahs no legal obligations deos not mean it does not have moral obligtions.

7:50 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"It is so clear and obvious what must be done at this point. Stop bashing everyone and get off your fat a**es and go to Yeshiva Ketana, Darchei, Southshore, Bnos Bais Yakov, TAG, HALB, HAFTR, Shulamis, etc. and demand that they implement comprehensive policies to deal with these issues. Unless you do not care about your children and would rather debate about whether a grumpy old man is guilty. Pathetic."


hey big talker....what have you done so far?

7:51 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

And you know foresure these "victims" are telling the truth? or maybe this is a way to get money from a yeshiva that made their lives "difficult".

"difficult", i.e. rubbing them the wrong way.

7:53 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

as I said earlier, it is all "allegations"

Enough for an indictment though.

7:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enough for an indictment though.


And enough smoke here for a fire.

8:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Enough for an indictment though.

To quote Sol Wachtler (Former Chief Judge of the New York State Court of Appeals):
"Even a modestly competent district attorney can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich."

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Presumption of innocence is a legal right that the accused enjoys in criminal trials in many modern nations. It states that no person shall be considered guilty until finally convicted by a court. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to convince the court that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In principle, the defense does not have to 'prove' anything. However, the defense may present evidence tending to show that there is a doubt as to the guilt of the accused.

Conversely, in many authoritarian regimes the prosecution case is, in practice, believed by default unless the accused can prove he is innocent, a practice called presumption of guilt. Many people believe that presumption of guilt is unfair and even immoral because it allows the strategic targeting of any individual, since it's often difficult to firmly establish proof of innocence (for example, it's often impossible to establish an alibi if the person is home alone at the time of the crime).

8:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


To quote Sol Wachtler (Former Chief Judge of the New York State Court of Appeals):
"Even a modestly competent district attorney can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich."


Excellent source

Sol Wachtler began his government career in 1963, when he was elected a councilman of the town of North Hempstead. He was elected to the New York State Supreme Court in 1968 and elected to the New York Court of Appeals, the state's highest court, in 1972. In 1985, he was appointed Chief Judge of the State of New York and the Court of Appeals.

In 1992, he was arrested on an expressway while driving home and later pled guilty to harassing his former mistress Joy Silverman and her teenage daughter. He resigned his judgeship and was subsequently disbarred as a result of this incident. He also served time in a federal prison. As he is no longer permitted to practice law, Wachtler is currently involved with Alternate Dispute Resolution.

9:15 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

It states that no person shall be considered guilty until finally convicted by a court

This only applies in a court of law.

9:23 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

In 1992, he was arrested on an expressway while driving home and later pled guilty to harassing his former mistress Joy Silverman and her teenage daughter

What a "quality" individual.

9:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Kolko story has opened a pandoras box, which we will begin to see. Schools will now have to face the reality. Thankfully it is probably not as prevasive as the Church related scandal, but it is no less serious. Rabbanic leaders will have to do some soul searching to realize that the rug is the wrong place for this issue.

9:42 PM  
Anonymous Baruch Lanner said...

well you see cover ups are part of our society

9:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>In 1992, he was arrested on an expressway while driving home and later pled guilty to harassing his former mistress Joy Silverman and her teenage daughter. He resigned his judgeship and was subsequently disbarred as a result of this incident. He also served time in a federal prison.


Doesn't negate his point.

Aristotle was a horrible person, yet he makes quite a few good points.

10:02 PM  
Blogger Ari Kinsberg said...

anonymous:

"Here's what someone commented on another blog...you should all read this (and think about it before you spew all of your hatred):

# Bari Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 5:40 pm

Where is the comment to this arrest of the RCA? The OU? The Edah Charedis?

What Rabbi Shafran is saying, in plain English, is “get off my case, this isn’t an Agudah affair, it is a YTT one, and why the heck would we want to stick our heads into this mess.”"

as i responded on that blog:

"the point is that ytt’s people are agudah people, not rca or ou people.

that having been said, the rca and ou should be addressing the wider problem. "

10:02 PM  
Blogger Ari Kinsberg said...

Anonymous:

"Some big rav should rule that when you get arrested, its forbidden to wear a hat and jacket."

why so? what more could prove to aguda that the charges must be false and the police/prosecutor/state are anti-semites out to get a jew

10:05 PM  
Blogger Ari Kinsberg said...

anonymous:

"Thankfully it is probably not as prevasive as the Church related scandal"

i hope you are right, but we have no idea. that is the whole problem.

"Rabbanic leaders will have to do some soul searching to realize that the rug is the wrong place for this issue."

stop dreaming. the only searching they will be doing is for generous donors if torah temimah loses one of those multi-million dollar lawsuits. a major factor that woke up the catholics was the very real threat of bankrupt parishes. we will face that same threat. except by us it will be worse because our pockets are not as deep as rome's (http://agmk.blogspot.com/2006/12/failure-of-orthodox-community.html).

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Listen. The agudah or shafrens response was terrible, insensitive and not taking responsibility or action, but you need to put the response in context. Why does Rabbi Shafran owe a response to a blogger or an individual e-mail inquiry? It is the same as a newspaper reporter seeking a comment. True that if he didnt want to comment he should have simply said no comment and not given his sly response, but the way to release the agudahs official comment or stance should be a public response, not an e-mail repsonse to an individual.

10:15 PM  
Anonymous scared to use my real name said...

Avi Shafran should not have said such a glib remark while he was standing naked in the mikvah talking to his best friend.

Kal v'chomer, he should not have put that remark in an e-mail to a well-known journalist who maintains a popular blog.

Avi Shafran should be fired as PR man for doing such a dumb dumb thing. Zweibel would have been much more careful. But then, he is a lawyer. Does Shafran even have a Yeshiva degree, or does he just have the gift of the pen?

10:20 PM  
Anonymous deemer said...

While I am upset about the Agudah's lack of response here, I sincerely ask which one of you would have the guts to go out and be a better spokesperson?

R' Shafran is simply avoiding getting involved in this mess. Who wouldn't? It stinks, and it's dragging everyone else in the mud. And who the hell cares what Rabbi Shafran or the Agudah thinks. If the Agudah is so "irrelevant" as everyone claims, what's the big deal? Would a proper statement even matter from such an "irrelevant" organization?

I also take extreme offense to some of the vitriolic comments about the Agudah. It has its faults, as nearly all large organizations do. But the Agudah has always taken care of Jews, and the amount of chesed and tzedakah that they do still puts others to shame. Show a little respect.

10:32 PM  
Anonymous scared to use my real name said...

a 'no comment' would have been more acceptable. this remark was just uncalled for. It was callous and irresponsible and lacked leadership.

10:38 PM  
Blogger Ari Kinsberg said...

deemer:

"But the Agudah has always taken care of Jews, and the amount of chesed and tzedakah that they do still puts others to shame. Show a little respect."

how much good do they have to do to earn them a free ride on this issue. it would be one thing to give them the benefit of the doubt if this problem suddenly arose over night, but . . .

10:40 PM  
Anonymous scared to use my real name - but people who know me appreciate my humor said...

Deemer,
That's like paying for sexual favors from underage children with chesed dollars.

10:59 PM  
Anonymous Azamat said...

Unlike many of you...I am uniquely qualified to comment on this subject:
Rabbi Kolko was my 1st grade Rebbe.
Rabbi Kolko was my Principal for 8 years of elementary school.
Rabbi Kolko was my Head Counsler for 13 years in Camp Ma-Na-Vu.
Needless to say, I KNOW this man very very well. He was a looming figure and played a major role in my childhood.
Finally...someone who can speak from first hand knowledge here and not heresay and speculation right?
WELL...MAYBE...
I'll say this much...he was a tough teacher and a tough dsciplinarian (not THAT type you sicko. BUT he was always fair - at least to me - and we always got along. It never once occured to me that there was something odd or creepy about him. Stories always followed him around but I personally never saw or heard ANYTHING concrete that would connect him to these horrific charges.
THAT SAID...I am not stupid or naive. As someone above said "where there's smoke there's usually fire" and smoke has been billowing around this man for THIRTY YEARS. Enough with the "Dan L'Cav Zchus" people.
Something is NOT right here and this man must be brought to justice.
There is one part of this story no one seems to be talking about - and it's the part that makes me most skepticle about the latest charges.
Apparently, one of the charges filed is from a 31 year old man (My classmate?) who claims that Kolko - in 2005 - forced him to place his hand on Kolko's Chram (or testes satchel?). This is VERY ODD as a) No adult has ever accused Kolko of molesting them b) this type of adult molestation is totally inconsistant with a child preditor and c) Even if Kolko were 100% guilty of all of these accusations - and even if he were a sick sick man so attracted to children that he can not help himself...why in the hell...smack in the middle of a new investigation of his behavoir..would he try to pull off something so stupid as forcing an adult man to place his hand on his shaffenhausen?
It makes ZERO sense and really calls into question the entire story that this accuser is trying to make us believe.
It'd be a damn shame if many or most of the stories are true but because THIS was fabricated Kolko walks.

11:46 PM  
Anonymous Azamat said...

Oh ...and one last thing...you are NEVER fully prepared to see your first grade rebbe in handcuffs doing a perp walk on the 11 O'clock news...after being charged with child sex crimes....NEVER.

11:52 PM  
Anonymous deemer said...

Dear Scared:
"That's like paying for sexual favors from underage children with chesed dollars. "

Idiotic argument.

I think that everyone should denounce Kolko is a loud and strident voice, and should tearfully apologize to the public for having failed us. The main people involved aren't, so now we're on a manhunt for SOMEONE to alleviate our anger and to apologize.

Agudah is not endorsing Kolko's actions. Agudah is not putting Kolko on a pedestal. Agudah is not signing him on to the board. Agudah is simply refusing to get involved. I don't admire it. I don't condone it. I wish they would have taken a stand, but they didn't and I can't say that I particularly blame them.

Does this mean that we should gleefully throw mud on the Agudah and, subsequently, every "yeshivish" (I hate that term) organization? No. A less than stellar comment by Rabbi Shafran shouldn't indicate that the entire Agudah is horribly flawed and should be demolished. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and all that.

12:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ari Kinsberg said...
deemer:

"But the Agudah has always taken care of Jews, and the amount of chesed and tzedakah that they do still puts others to shame. Show a little respect."

how much good do they have to do to earn them a free ride on this issue. it would be one thing to give them the benefit of the doubt if this problem suddenly arose over night, but . . .

10:40 PM

OH JESUS CHRIST!!!

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES SO MUCH GOOD TOO MAYBE JESUS IS MOSHIACH AND WE SHOULD IGNORE THE PEDOPHILE PRIESTS.

12:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

azamat,
why don't you tell us a little bit about how it felt to see your rebbe in handcuffs. I mean separate and apart from the charges and the validity of those charges. Which part of your gut did it hit the hardest just seeing this man who is such a large part of your life and your development as a ben torah being led off in a hat and jacket to a courthouse?

12:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey 12:13 am,
do you know what jesus / christ means?

12:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Still Wonderin'

I'm anon 6:21. If you're "still wonderin'" what I'm doing, sorry, you'll never know. I will not detail what I am doing, I'll just get it done. But I need people's help and I think I was abundantly clear in my 6:21pm post what I belive you and everyone else can do to help. Again, that is, if course, if you give a **** about your children. If you don't, just stick around this blog and keep wonderin' and asking questions. The doers will take care of the dirty work for you. I hope not to respond any further as it will only take time away from accomplishing goals. I hope you will all do the same. In case you forgot (or didn't read) what I wrote earlier, here it is - so get up and go. Please.

"It is so clear and obvious what must be done at this point. Stop bashing everyone and get off your fat a**es and go to Yeshiva Ketana, Darchei, Southshore, Bnos Bais Yakov, TAG, HALB, HAFTR, Shulamis, etc. and demand that they implement comprehensive policies to deal with these issues. Unless you do not care about your children and would rather debate about whether a grumpy old man is guilty. Pathetic.

6:21 PM"

12:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The quote below is taken from Avi Shafran's rebuke of Robert Kolker. Why shouldn't the same person (representing Agudah or whoever) have a comment on the recent developments? And why does he have to be so snide about it?

Anyone who has shown a tendency toward abusive behavior has no business serving as a teacher, counselor or youth leader, and institutions must have procedures in place to ensure that they do not. And, while there is still much to do in this regard, the community can point with some degree of pride to important strides that have already been made.

Many Orthodox schools and summer camps have for years had in place clear policies and effective safeguards to help prevent abuse. Three years ago, the National Society of Hebrew Day Schools published and disseminated internal school guidelines for preventing and dealing with abuse, including reporting to civil authorities when appropriate. Sessions at its conventions focusing on the issue and featuring leading mental health professionals have been standing room only and lasted late into the night.

Special Jewish courts have been established in a number of Orthodox communities across the country to deal with abuse accusations (and have, in cases of proven guilt or admission of a crime, put suitable restrictions in place). A number of Orthodox mental health organizations and social service groups deal both with victims of child abuse and with abusers.

And contemporary rabbinical leaders have publicly spurred their followers to action on the issue. David Mandel, head of the Ohel Children’s Home and Family Services, which operates a sexual abuse prevention and treatment program, said, “The degree to which Torah leaders have spoken out [on abuse in the Orthodox community] has been remarkable.”

Has all that been enough? Nothing is, at least not until abuse is nonexistent in the community. Must more be done? Yes. And it will be.

12:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This latest alleged abuse, allegedly took place after the alleged guideline and allegedly effective procedures were put into place (3 years ago). Why and how did they allegedly fail, and who has the alleged responsibility to make sure that it doesn't happen again? This is not to point fingers and find a scapegoat. This is just to learn from the failure in order to properly plan for the present and future.

If YTT isn't a Torah Umesorah member school and never adopted the guidelines, then I think parents of all schools should be made aware of what policies are in place at that school and whether the school has adopted the guidelines.

Also, the Agudah, which invented such wonderful centralized Orthodox services, such as the chofetz chaim heritage foundation and the tefillah awareness program, and the invei hagefen and cope etc etc should be able to use its network of contacts in the heimeshe velt to get some psychologists and lawyers who are willing to set up a hotline, like yittly leibel and mask etc, to hear such complaints and substantiate the claims. That organization would act like a screener. They would then refer the case to either a bais din or the police, as nesseciated by the circumstance and the attitude of the school in question.

12:52 AM  
Anonymous What we can expect said...

According to the diocese report:

Twenty-nine individuals alleged sexual abuse by clergy affiliated with the Diocese of Stockton and its predecessor between 1950 and 2003. Seventeen of the allegations were against one priest -- Oliver O'Grady; one of those was deemed false.

The 10 accused priests were among 404 priests exercising ministry in the diocese over that period, amounting to 2.47 percent of the priests in the diocese.

Law enforcement investi- gated six priests. No charges were brought against three priests. Two priests were convicted and received prison terms. A Supreme Court decision on the criminal statute of limitations on sexual abuse of minors pre-empted charges against one priest.

One priest was permanently removed from the clergy; one was placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of a church investigation; and one did not work in the Stockton Diocese when the alleged abuse occurred.

Five priests are under investigation. Two of them had been dead for several years before the allegations surfaced; two returned to their country of origin years ago.

There are 12 lawsuits pending against the Diocese of Stockton, filed in 2003 during the time when the statute of limitations was lifted in California. Some are not yet public.

Of the $9.535 million paid in settlements and court judgments, $5 million was paid by insurance carriers and $4.535 million by the Diocese of Stockton. Counseling services amounted to $190,000 -- half estimated paid by insurance. Lawyer fees are estimated at $200,000, mostly paid for by insurance, according to the diocese. The diocese did not release the records itself.

Blaire said he was not surprised by the findings. The diocese has been dealing with the magnitude of the O'Grady allegations since the 1990s. O'Grady served time in prison, was deported to Ireland and reduced to lay status. A second priest, Oscar Pelaez, was sentenced to six years in prison in 2002.

"We knew our situation," Blaire said. "What could be a surprise is how extensive the problem is (nationally), as far as what the John Jay study will indicate. ... There is no question it was a serious and extensive problem."

Among other dioceses that have released statistics, the Sacramento Diocese reported receiving complaints accusing 21 priests of sexual misconduct and paying $1.5 million in settlements and victim services since 1950; the Santa Rosa Diocese reported 16 accused priests, 59 victims and $8.6 million in costs.

Most of the cases in the Stockton Diocese -- including recent filings -- were from the 1970s and 1980s and involved O'Grady, Thiella said.

The church began actively dealing with the problem in the 1990s, Blaire said. In the past, offending priests often were allowed to return to ministry after completing treatment.

"We now know that anyone addicted in those areas can never be returned to ministry, because there is always a chance of relapse," Blaire said. "Now we know that 'low risk' is still a risk."

In recent years, the diocese has overseen "healing rituals" for parishioners and support groups for priests, fine-tuned pastoral screening and created programs and protocols dealing with clergy abuse.

A 2003 audit of dioceses across the country by the Gavin Group of Boston found the Stockton Diocese compliant with the Bishops' Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People, drafted in 2002 to address allegations of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy.

"You can never be totally sure you can prevent future abuse ... but in terms of making a safe environment for children, I think it will be about as safe as we can do," Blaire said.

In earlier days, prospective priests didn't undergo psychiatric evaluations, he said. "(All they needed) was to come from a good family and have a letter of recommendation from a pastor," Blaire said. "Now there is a very extensive evaluation system."

For years, "the church did not know the extent of the problem," Blaire added. Now that it is recognized, "we cannot express often enough our sadness and deep sorrow," he said.

Victims and their attorneys argue that the church has known about abuse within the church for decades.

Laurence E. Drivon, a Stockton attorney handling 464 clergy abuse cases in California, called it "a centuries-old cover-up." He estimates there are at least 750 cases pending in the state.

1:11 AM  
Anonymous mf said...

wats wrong with you u just seem to wanna hate. at one point i the blog you say avi shafren said waht he said on the advice of lawyers yet on the other hand you criticize him for not commenting. camp agudah a subsidiary of his orginization can get sued and his words may be used against him and it may cost them alot of money yet you want him to make a comment i am sure if you were in the same situation you would not make any comments until things sorted out alittle and your lawyer said it is alright to talk. i dont understand uoj was able to say he coud not say things because of the pending investigation but avi shaf. can not say the same thing. no orginization that is subject to possible litigation makes any comments publicly about the issue that may be litigated. what do you want him to do give you some nice juicy comments at the expense of his orginization.
anyay if he said things and it affected the possible suit against aagudah you would call him an idiot i m sure.
can't a man follow the advise of his lawyers. every murederer and criminal has a right to a lawyer and to listen to the advise given isn't he entitled to that too

2:16 AM  
Blogger pisgam said...

Aguda is absolutely correct here. At the direction of the Moetzes,
matters of this nature must be dealt with in a confidential fashion so as to avoid chilul-
Hashem, the harshest issur in Judaism, which none of you MO rabble-rousing malshinim seem to care about.

2:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Hashem...which none of you MO...seem to care about." (for full quote, see above post)
classy.
if the yeshiva/community/rabbis had policed themselves and removed or at least investigated this man (and i am using that term loosely) there would be no story on the 6 o'clock news, there would be no photos of an outwardly religious jew being led away by police. if being defined as MO means i have to live with the idea that there are sick people amongst us who are hurting our children, people who must be dealt with by the secular authorities because there is no jewish court system or punishment system in place to protect MY child from such sick individuals, than fine--call me MO. but DO NOT claim the moral high ground, don't you dare claim that i am committing the chillul hashem here. last i checked, i am not the one who fondled children and i am not the one who protected the evil in our midst in the name of saving face. the chillul hashem belongs solely with those who committed the crime and those who turned a blind eye to it.

8:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like Azamat I too was Rabbi Kolko's student in Pre-1a and also had him as an assistant principal for 9 years.
Like Azamat, it struck a blow to my heart when I saw my former rebbe being led away in handcuffs because I could never imagine this man to have committed such acts tough as he was.
I do agree that those who committ such crimes should be dealt with though. But we can't sit here and be the judges of that, most of whom I'm guessing unlike myself don't even know Rabbi Kolko personally.

Spewing lashon horah on a blog isn't really productive if you aren't going to take a proactive approach to your childrens or other childrens education and make sure that they don't wait 20 years or any length of time to report sexual misconduct between a teacher and a student then you are just feeding hatred for no purpose.

May we be zoche to the Moshiach speedily in our days.

8:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the guilt or innocence of kolko will be made clear. but the bigger picture is that if there is one person who is committing these acts, it doesn't take a genius to know there are others. jews can be monsters, too. that is what i am concerned about--the fact that people turn a blind eye to the concept that jews are capable of such evil. unfortunately, we are. the real test of the health and goodness of a community is not whether or not there are individuals within it that are committing horrific crimes (an impossibility in this imperfect world), but what we do to prevent them and what we do to heal the victims. i agree, though, that it is not enough to simply blab on a blog. if you are truly disgusted by the idea of a child molester being near your child, than you are obligated to protect your child and educated them.

9:08 AM  
Blogger MoChassid said...

Azamat

The same nice things were said by many about Baruch Lanner. Many of the kids who went through NCSY Summer Kollel were shocked by the alegations that came out because Lanner was a very imposing and inspirational figure. It didn't mean that he wasn't also a pervert.

9:54 AM  
Blogger SephardiLady said...

Spewing lashon horah on a blog isn't really productive if you aren't going to take a proactive approach to your childrens or other childrens education and make sure that they don't wait 20 years or any length of time to report sexual misconduct between a teacher and a student then you are just feeding hatred for no purpose.

Sometimes it takes 10 or 20 years for a person to be able to reveal the fact that they were molested. Being that the victim suffers in shame, it often isn't something that comes to light immediately.

But, you are correct that once the abuse is know it should be dealt with sooner rather than later.

10:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh orthomom I am so proud!! Did you finally take a break from trusting Rabbonim (GASP!)

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Fox said...

Forget about blogs undermining Torah authority. In some cases, such as the subject of sexual impropriety, they undermine common sense.

Does anyone else remember that one of the early goals -- a laudable one -- of the feminist movement was to improve the reaction of law enforcement and courts to rape cases. Prior to the attention directed by activists, rape cases were often dismissed or never even brought to court. Unless the victim was beaten within an inch of her life -- and sometimes even then -- no "real" crime was considered to have taken place.

Well, one of the first strategies was to demand stricter, more punitive sentencing for those found guilty of rape. But this strategy backfired: when a jury was faced with a mandatory life sentence, they were even *more* reluctant to convict, especially if there was even a shred of evidence that contradicted the accuser.

What really worked, the activists found, was to tone down their description of the "awfulness" of rape and give juries and judges more leeway in dealing with individual cases. Their educational efforts became more clinical and less outraged, which helped them enlist more support in the law enforcement community and significantly decreased the wink-wink-nudge-nudge reaction they sought to eradicate.

Now, nothing is perfect. But a woman who reports a rape today faces a much different experience than she would have fifty years ago.

Anyone who *really* wants to protect children needs to stop being so shrill and realize that drama just makes the problem worse. We need to be alert and help our children be alert to *all* kinds of abuse in our communities, including bullying and other psychological abuse that I suspect affects a huge number of children in our midst -- sometimes with dire consequences.

Regarding this case, I have two questions. First, where have parents been since the mid-eighties. I can't imagine sending my child into a setting where there are very significant accusations of inappropriate behavior. And if the yeshiva has stonewalled any discussion, why on earth would you send your children to such an unresponsive, arrogant institution? Why haven't parents "voted with their feet"? by transferring their children or refusing to send younger siblings? Surely empty classrooms would get someone's attention.

Second, this man's friends seem to be his worst enemies. In many cases with far less dramatic and upsetting accusations than this, the accused is "counseled" by his boss, rav, etc., into a career change that doesn't involve the same potential problems. I've even known of individuals who were most certainly innocent, but who decided the potential for pain and embarrassment was too great to fight the rumors. They decided to leave chinuch -- in many cases they were ill-suited for chinuch, anyway. Even if we assume this individual is completely innocent, why would his alleged friends and supporters wish to subject him and his family to such embarrassment? Why didn't they help him make a face-saving career change back in the 80's, thus protecting subsequent students (if the allegations were true) and the man and his family (even if the allegations were false)?

10:36 AM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

MOchossid:

The same nice things were also said by Lanner's colleagues, and they also couldn't believe he was a pervert.

Lanner's colleagues caused almost as much damage (if not more) by defending him and lambasting those brave enough to stand up and challenge him.

10:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

for the first time in my life, Orthomon, I agree withyou

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Listen. The agudah or shafrens response was terrible, insensitive and not taking responsibility or action, but you need to put the response in context. Why does Rabbi Shafran owe a response to a blogger or an individual e-mail inquiry? It is the same as a newspaper reporter seeking a comment. True that if he didnt want to comment he should have simply said no comment and not given his sly response, but the way to release the agudahs official comment or stance should be a public response, not an e-mail repsonse to an individual.

Weiss is a journalist and Shafran knows exactly who he is. Now, it is true, as you said that this is just a reporter asking for a comment. Shafran need not have responded to any reporter who asked. But he did. As you noted, he did not offer no comment. Would he have responded at all if it was, say, DovBear and not a journalist? No, of course not. He gave the Agudah's official response to a journalist, which is not "no comment," but "Agudath Israel has nothing to do with this."

It is that contention which people are contesting. First, Weiss posted the text of his email and he did not mention Camp Agudah. This suggests that Shafran knows exactly why people might connect Kolko with the Agudah: he was, in fact, an employee of the Agudah, even if long ago. Secondly, as people point out, he comments in the name of the Agudah on all sorts of sundry issues. Third, Agudah devoted a section of its convention to this issue. Fourth, YTT is affiliated with the Agudah in the sense that it is the sort of sort of yeshiva and community which the Agudah purports to represent in the United States.

11:10 AM  
Anonymous scared to use my real name said...

I just want to comment here and say that I have been to the Agudah convention in the past and I did subscribe to the Jewish Observer for a time.

I would now like to say that I am thoroughly disgusted by them (and not b/c of this or any other post on orthomom). I know that I cannot really leave my black hat community, so I will inevitably end up mingling with Agudah people and take from and give to their wonderful organizations. In fact, my family davens in an Agudah shul and my mother has volunteered for their organizations in the past. Other parts of my family are tightly wound around their thumb in one way or another. So I cannot cut away from them in the way that I really want to, and I know it.

But.

I cannot imagine why I would send them an annual check. And I can't imagine going to the convention again except as a business networking thing. If a goyishe or frei officemate asks me who they are, I don't even know what I would say. I am usually embarrased to be associated with them. Maybe that says more about me than them, who knows. But, I am a product of their Yeshiva system and a successful one at that, not some stam oisvarf. So, who is really to blame?

The success of an organization depends on its future - in this case either the children or the baalei tshuva. I dare say that the Aguda has become irrelevant to the youth of today, except to those who need a summer internship.

11:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But we see here Avi Shafran commenting on "his community".

http://www.thejewishweek.com/top...php3? artid=1843

Preventing Future Lanner Cases
Judy Klitsner

The Jewish Week - March 1, 2002

(excerpt)

"Meanwhile, Rabbi Avi Shafran, spokesman for Agudath Israel of America, a leading ultra-Orthodox group, said leaders of his community have no tolerance for sex abuse, and that those who commit such acts are blackballed from holding educational positions."

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3:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all those claiming to have had R' Kolko in pre-1a and how great he was and how we should stop speaking ill of him, Kolko taught 1st-Grade.
As for the issue at hand, personally, we now see how utterly useless the Agudah is and how the "gedolim" have failed us, big time. R' Matt speaks over the weekend how he and his cronies are taking care of things, and later on, thanks to the internet, a perp is arrested. Do the math.

4:34 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

No one told me there would be math involved

5:28 PM  
Anonymous #15 still in our hearts said...

Rabbi Pinchos Scheinberg is of sterling reputation and has only goodnes in his heart.

The so called "no penetration" psak was never signed and published by Rabbi Scheinberg.
There are no transcripts of the Din Torah and there were no witnesses and therefore nobody knows what facts were presented to Horav Scheinberg SHLITA why and if he answered what he proportedly did.

To all of his mockers and accusers I have a request ..I would not want to be on an elevator or an airplane with you.

6:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice post. Also, does dovbear think he can rip this post off point for point, link you, and then hope we won't ntice?

7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He has close to 250 hits. He can do whatever he wants.

7:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question if you please, If Kolko was a young israel or an OU rabbi would OM blog about it?

9:02 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Question if you please, If Kolko was a young israel or an OU rabbi would OM blog about it?


Of course I would. You're barking up the wrong tree by suggesting I wouldn't.

9:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question for the dumb commentor:
If Kolko was Lubavitch, RCA, MO, YU, YCT, Conservative or Reform (in no particular order), would you be gloating and smiling gleefully?

9:28 PM  
Anonymous Former Kolko Student said...

Re: Anon 4:34 PM

To all those claiming to have had R' Kolko in pre-1a and how great he was and how we should stop speaking ill of him, Kolko taught 1st-Grade.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had Kolko in Pre 1A (1979-1980). Check your facts before you accuse anyone of making false statements.

9:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agudah is a fairly large organization which is great. Because as the old saying goes - the bigger they are,the harder they fall.

Agudah will be crashing so hard that the shock waves will be felt throughout the frum world.

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Azamat said...

Former Kolko student:
Before you post a smug sarcastic "know-it-all" comment ... why don't YOU check the facts...
Personally, I, like your lucky self, was in Kolko's FIRST grade class. However, a number of good friends of mine were in his PRE-1-A class. Apparently he DID have a pre-1-A class at some point - unless of course he would just sneak in, tell the kids he was "the rebbe", play around a bit and leave?
Maybe...but I doubt it.
And another thing you ... although I was one of the above commenters who stated that I was in Kolko's class ... you seem particularly PROUD of this ... what do you want, a freakin' medal????
Were you the guy I saw today on Central Ave. with the shirt that said "I was in Rabbi Kolko's class and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt!!"

12:07 AM  
Anonymous ShoSho said...

Azamat what's with the attack on Former kolko student. All he was doing is letting some Anonymous guy know that he needs to get his facts straight and not just assume that this guy Kolko was only a 1st grade teacher.
It's indicitive from your comments that you're begging for attention when YOU go into detail about Kolko and the alleged abuse of your former classmate.
Could it be that your are just upset that Kolko didn't pick on you and give you the attention you desired.
I guess we should also be proud that you went to MaNaVu for 13 years (More info about YOU).
Oh by the way...was that you who I saw this morning on Central Avenue in your royal blue collar and sleeve MaNaVu shirt.

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Question for the dumb commentor:
If Kolko was Lubavitch, RCA, MO, YU, YCT, Conservative or Reform (in no particular order), would you be gloating and smiling gleefully?

You bettcha from ear to ear

1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom,
I've generally considered you more respectable than most of the Yeshivish critics out there. Why have you issued no word of rebuke to those who are smearing Rabbi Scheinberg?

This comment section makes me ashamed to be of the MO persuasion. Most of the commenters are trafficking in Lashon Hara; no way around it.

Rabbi Shafran is a public person with an easy way of getting in touch. Call the Aguda office and ask to talk to him. Register your complaint with him directly. Anonymously parading your bravery by taking him on in postings and comments isn't going to change anything. It will, of course, make sure that many people will see him in a bad light. I suspect that was the goal in this post; not in correcting a wrong.

Frankly I don't see what he would have said that would have made anyone here happy. Even if he said, "The Agudah strongly condemns the actions allegedly committed by Rabbi Kolko." Would that have made any of you happy? Rabbi Kolko will now have his day in court at some point; the legal issues will be settled. At this point he can't directly condemn Rabbi Kolko.

He took the wise option. He refused to say anything of substance.

4:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, who in the world considers om a "yeshivish blog"?

Second, Shafran did not remain silent, as you say. He was defensive and defiant. He denied that agudah has any role in employing kolko over the years. He also suddely gets all huffy about caring about what 'individuals' do, as if he would have used the same restraint when talking about an individual who happens to be an evil (gasp) blogger.

4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this has nothing to do with agudah just move on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

of course its about agudah. as much as tax credits were. or bloggers. or at risk kids. or anything else that was the title of one of the stupid sessions at the agudah convention. if they care about anything afesting the kids in their yeshivos, this should be on the list. and imho, at teh top of the list.

8:06 PM  
Anonymous scared to use my real name said...

For those who keep saying this isn't an Aguda issue, please realize this is a klal issue. It affects every single person in our community. It's not about Kolko, it's about the bigger picture.

Did you not see the memo from the Aguda (Zweibel) urging the NYS legislature from adopting the child protection act?

Did you not see the editorial from the aguda (Avi Shafran) in the jewish week, strenuously arguing with Robert Kolker & Hella Winston about sex abuse in boro park?

The aguda has already adopted this issue in one form or another, it's too late to claim it doesn't concern them.

10:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the recent push from avi shafran is more likely due to his fear of a lawsuit than actually caring about our children.. it seems that most of our esteemed rabbonim only act when the threat of a mega lawsuit is used... do they reeally believe that the victims signing away their rights to sue will hold up? This is AMERICA and FEDERAL Laws supercede Judaic, and well they should.. BEt Din are useless... the way to go is FEDERAL>

10:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know Rabbi Yudi yehuda Joel kolko or whatever else the paper is calling him now for close to 20 yrs..I know him intially as a campe head councelor then a rebbe and then a mentor. I do not believe the alligations against him and i hope to god they are false and his name is cleared. What is worse for the Klal than they kolko story is what is being written on this board and similar boards. how dare someone make fun of a rabbi belsky, or a rabbi sheinberger. we come to there toes, these people aere this gerneraations gedolim.
how dare? the outrage shouldnt be at aguda but at the chutzpnyak who is starting with our gedolim

6:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its interesting to note that ORTHOMOM never writes anything bad about Yeshiva University or its machers. I can unferstand why people in the haredi/Aguda/Yeshiva world are skeptical about (her)bias. I can't recall one article about YU/OU/RCA scandal.

9:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who do you think you are to mock the gadol hador Harav Hagaon C.P Sheinberg i would love to go head to head with you piece of dirt

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