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Wednesday, July 04, 2007

I Interrupt this Radio Silence for a Few Brief Rants

I'm sorry for the light posting schedule - things have been a bit hectic. I did want to make time, though, to get these mini-rants out of my system.

1. Does anyone else remember the good old days of summer sleepaway camping? The days when if there were any phone privileges for campers at all, they were extremely limited - usually about once a week or so? Or the pre-cell phone days, as opposed to 2007, where just about every staff member on camp grounds has the ability to send and receive calls and text messages from their personal cell-phones?

My kids attend different camps. One camp has restricted phone usage rules for their campers, another has a very liberal policy that basically allows campers to pick up a phone and dial home at any time they have a few free minutes. Let's just say that while I am always happy to hear my children's voices, the latter camp's policy can present a huge challenge for children who are having a hard time adjusting as campers. The constant phone calls, checking in with Mom and Dad, reporting/complaining about the little ins and outs that make up a day at sleepaway camp - sometimes (according to some of my friends with particularly homesick children) with the child crying into the phone - can be detrimental to both parent and child. I can tell you that in my own (admittedly anecdotal) experience, the kids who call home regularly are the kids who have a harder time acclimating to camp.

Chalk it up to times changing, I guess. I give it a few years before kids start coming up to camp with phones that have full e-mail/instant messaging capabilities. It would be pretty interesting to see campers walking to their next activity alone - talking into their bluetooth headsets or thumb-typing "Mom: send more nosh!" into their blackberries.

2. Speaking of my conversations with kids at camp (and of times changing, for that matter), in one such conversation with a sleepaway camper I was informed that said child needed some extra stuff. So off I went to the local big-box store to buy up dozens more socks that will just end up in the bermuda triangle that they call "camp laundry".

While perusing that section, I happened upon an item that suprised me (photo at right). Can someone tell me why a toddler who wears a size 4 underwear would need "low rise briefs", or bikinis that advertise themselves to be "now - with lower rise!"??? I am well aware that the low-rise trend has been encroaching even the orthodox world (the ultra-Orthodox girls' camp that felt it necessary to send out a letter explaining that "waistbands of skirts must be fully covered by shirts with no skin visible" is testament to that), but to toddlers? Does anyone else out there find the advertising of the low-rise qualities of toddler underwear to be a bit...well, off-putting? What happened to the days when toddlers wore underwear emblazoned with cartoon characters like Dora the Explorer - as opposed to underwear that would be better suited to be worn by a character like My Bling-Bling Barbie (a "toy" also marketed to young girls, of course - complete with advertising copy that reads: "Comes with a hot outfit" - and a "hot outfit" it most certainly is...).

I know I sound prudish and behind the times. Really, I do. But seriously, in an era where a major national clothing retailer has marketed thong underwear emblazoned with salacious sayings to pre-teen girls, does anyone else worry?

55 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with everything you said here. My kids call home way too often and I think it does'nt help them . And the way girls these days dress out there is a travesty.

2:41 PM  
Anonymous brooklyn mom said...

Crazy. The underwear thing is weird. I can't imagine putting clothes on my 2 year old that would need her to wear lowrise panties underneath.
The Abercrombie thing doesn't surprise me. Did you ever see the billboards that they put up on the way into the city by the midtown tunnel? Th male models pants are so low that I don't think lowrise underwear would even have helped. They peddle sex, plain and simple. You just don't expect them to pedde it to little girls. At least legally.

2:51 PM  
Anonymous brooklyn mom said...

One more thing. The barbie doll you linked is outrageous. Maybe they should call her "my prostitute barbie" instead.

2:53 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

But "label-free"? What, nothing to read?

3:30 PM  
Anonymous mdmom said...

it's a little bothersome (understatement) when english emblazoned clothing finds it's way over to this side of the pond. i saw a pair of obviously dati girls walking down the street, one wearing a tight t-shirt with "have you met the girls?" plastered across the front of it. i definitely did a double take as they walked past, the only explanation i could think of was that this poor girl had no idea what it said, or if she did, did not understand the double entendre. there's lots of that here with clothing alot nastier.

4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's sort of like the Roman Empire ... when it was on its way to self destruction.

4:28 PM  
Anonymous Al Gore said...

I know I sound prudish and behind the times.

Objecting to the sexualization of little girls is nothing to be ashamed of.

5:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have you been to Old Navy lately? I was looking for a tankini for my littlest daughter to make potty training easier at the pool and beach (try getting a one piece halter bathing suit off in time for a newly trained toddler). Almost every two piece bathing suit they sell is pretty much a string bikini. I see no reason to put a baby in a bikini top that looks like a skimpy bra. Why sexualize bosy parts they don't even have?

Great topic OM.

5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny that OrthoMom did not choose to discuss the sudden $300,000 increase in pre-k busing. I doubt even that amount will fully cover what is going to happen.

I hope all will be happy with a double digit budget down the road next year for the school district.

Shame on our board members once again - for those who decided not to do a cost analysis and push this issue, and then going on to say that it is only the public school parents who don't want to see the private school children get their fair share.

You may have to just keep your kids home from sleepaway camp next year because your taxes will go through the roof.

7:53 PM  
Blogger Jill said...

Aw, Orthomom! And to think I'd made it all this way in life without knowing about that Barbie Bling doll. Ah well, so long as my 10 year old never hears about her. Wow.

8:19 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Brooklyn mom:
I've seen those Abercrombie ads. They're horrifying, frankly. I had a friend who actually told me she used to avoid taking the Midtown Tunnel approach ramp while her kids were in the car when there was a particularly offensive billboard there.

Mdmom:
That t-shirt sounds like the wearer had to have missed something in the translation.

al gore:
Thanks for backing me up on this.

anon 5:36:
I saw the string bikinis in Old Navy too. I was suitably horrified.

Jill:
I had the distinct pleasure of spotting My Bling-Bling Barbie in Toys R Us a few weeks ago. As someone noted above, My Prostitute Barbie might have been a better moniker.

8:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom,
I have been reading your blog for the last year or so and find many things you say on topic and interesting. I do however feel that instead of talking about your present topics today that maybe you should be reminding all of us of the importance of the 4th of July holiday and thanking all of those men and women who have served our country and paid the ultimate sacrifice to provide the freedom we enjoy today. I think that should be your main topic today.

11:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am absolutely DREADING visiting day because of said phone calls. the camp mother at my daughter's camp actually allowed her to call me THE FIRST NIGHT she was there, which set a horrible tone for the following days. after two nights she refused to go to sleep until she spoke to me, and we had to stop that, but it was a tough few nites for her after that...By the way, this same daughter, from the time she began to toddle at 13 months pushed her diaper, and later, her underwear under her belly. She is now ten, and still pushes tights, underwear, and skirts under her pretty much non-existent belly! I make up for it by buying her very long shirts :)

11:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem with girls clothes is getting worse. My 2 year old daughter is wearing shorts that are a size too large for her, because the shorts that supposedly fit her are tight. They fight her exactly as the should, but in our opinion they are too tight. Just from the practical point that tight shorts are harder to deal with when changing diapers this trend is insane.

11:35 PM  
Anonymous Barbara said...

I know just where you are coming from. I recently came across THONGS for TWEENS. My one child said - "Mom, I thought I was supposed to keep my panties OUT of there!" Right on.

And the Bratz phenomena. The girls look like the lineup at the Mustang Ranch. ICK!

One of mine got caught wearing a WAY TOO SHORT skirt. I know she thought it looked pretty and had no idea how sexualized it made her but the skirt promptly went into the garbage. Trying to find skirts & shorts for the summer that aren't up to there and clothes that don't make them look like some 'hootchie' (as their father calls it) is getting harder.

I am not Orthodox, I am just a Reform mom who is very worried. What ever happened to modesty and leaving that sort of thing for marital privacy?

11:45 PM  
Blogger margalit said...

About cell phones at camp. Every night around 9 pm our landline starts ringing off the hook. It's all my daughter's friends from the various camps they attend, wanting to chat for a bit. EVERY single kid she knows brought his/her cell phone to camp. Religious camps, secular camps... it doesn't matter. Plus, some of the kids bring laptops. They are still facebooking and IMing throughout camp. What are their parents thinking?

11:48 PM  
Blogger Abbi said...

On underwear: My four year old has never liked elastic on her belly, so low rise panties are useful for us.

That said, her new Dora underwear are the old fashioned kind, and since she can't say no to Dora, she makes do.

7:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I completely agree with you on both issues (although my kids are not old enough for sleepaway camp yet).

I don't understand some mothers out there. and by out there, I mean right here in our community too. I have seen small kids in the most inappropriate outfits. Not only to camp but to shul also. And so many of them are do unflattering to the kids. Mothers! Not everything that is fashionable belongs on your daughters. Keep in mind that MANY young girls have bellies that look even larger in the tight fitting tops that they are stuffed into. It makes me sick to see some of these girls walking around with their shirts riding up over their stomachs. If it's too tight, either get something else or at least buy the next size

10:21 AM  
Blogger RaggedyMom said...

I couldn't agree with you more, Orthomom. My daughter is about to turn 4, and certain stores I did well in for her clothes when she was a baby are now totally a waste of time, as most of what they market is tiny hoochie-wear. I can't take the suggestiveness of the little girl clothes, swimsuits, and even the shoes! Yikes!

10:22 AM  
Blogger Zach Kessin said...

In terms of T-shirts is probably a good idea to not wear a T-shirt with a slogan on it in a language you don't read/understand. A few years back I was taking a bus in a haradi area of Jerusalem (Rehov Bar Ilan I think) And I saw an obviously frum girl wearing a T-shirt that said "Its better in a bikini" I assume she had no idea what it ment.

Of course I also heard a story about a Tatoo artist who was giving people a tatoos of what he said was a japaneese symbol for luck, but really said something like "Dumb westerner"

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Fox said...

There's a wonderful book by Celia Rivenbark called, "Stop Dressing Your Six-Year-Old Like a Skank". She describes the change in available clothing when her daughter graduated into 6X as "L'il Ladies of the Evening".

As for the campers, I have mixed feelings. I grew up in a community where *no one* went to sleepaway camp unless their parents literally wanted to be rid of them *or* their families were so pathological that they were being spirited away for their own protection.

While I hear the argument, I've never been able to figure out why people are so keen on sending relatively young kids away for weeks at a time.

1:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

About cell phones at camp. Every night around 9 pm our landline starts ringing off the hook. It's all my daughter's friends from the various camps they attend, wanting to chat for a bit. EVERY single kid she knows brought his/her cell phone to camp. Religious camps, secular camps... it doesn't matter. Plus, some of the kids bring laptops. They are still facebooking and IMing throughout camp. What are their parents thinking?

They could have stayed home and their parents could have saved thousands of dollars. Oh, I forgot the summer camp is not for the kids its for the parents.

1:50 PM  
Blogger triLcat said...

Label free and low-rise actually make sense, if they're for the child's comfort. I just think that the picture is kinda icky...

2:50 PM  
Blogger Abbi said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3:01 PM  
Blogger Abbi said...

Living in Israel now with two young kids of my own, I look back at my 6 years at Morasha (full summers) as something really odd, especially because such an idea is unheard of around here. Most boys in the army call their mothers every day. I still call my mother every day and I'm 32.

I'm not surprised that a child in elementary school can't sleep without talking to their mother.

I would vaguely consider sending my child away for a month, when she's in sixth or seventh grade, but I can't see two months at all. It seems really bizarre to me now.

3:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whatever underwear makes the toddler want to be in underwear instead of diapers is a good thing by me. The rest of the outfit, that's a another story...

3:38 PM  
Anonymous Brooklyn said...

My kids only wear what I approve, period. I'm from the old school and my kids know this.

4:00 PM  
Blogger ClooJew said...

I think a greater tragedy is that kids who go to Israel are in constant touch with everyone from home. There was a time (back, lulei demistafina, in the EIGHTIES that when you went to Israel for the year, you did not come home for Pesach, you spoke to your parents, maybe once a week or perhaps even less frequently, and you communicated through LETTERS!

This, I believe encouraged a great deal of spiritual advancement and overall maturity. Now it's almost like you never left home.

9:38 PM  
Anonymous REReader said...

Yes, there are others who worry. Many of them are called home-schoolers.

10:40 PM  
Blogger Abbi said...

rereader:

wow, that's pretty myopic if you think only home schoolers are concerned about what kind of clothing their kid wears.

I'm sure for many families who send their daughters to a Beit Ya'akov type of school, the dress code/uniform is one of the major reasons.

11:27 PM  
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4:03 AM  
Blogger Chana said...

triLcat said...
Label free and low-rise actually make sense, if they're for the child's comfort. I just think that the picture is kinda icky...


Label free yes, but low rise? Why don't they make them for boys then?

I don't take my 8 y.o. daughter clothes shopping if I can avoid it. She has a couple friends who have made her aware of the "fashion" thing, and it makes me crazy. My 4 y.o. son has Diego and Thomas the Train and Bob the Builder underwear, and she has boring polka dot and striped briefs...

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If so many women in our community are content in wearing skin tight skirts with slits goin gup to their pupick, i say, let them wear low rise panties. Maybe even a thong peeking out. Makes shopping a Brachs alot more tolerable

4:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When my daughter was a toddler, she received one of those bra/camisole tops with matching bikini panties, size 4 (girls). I was appalled. So I guess the time between training pants and training bra is now less than 2 years???? We were lucky to have discovered SARA'S PRINTS underwear when my daughter was little. They make underweat that lasts forever and with beautiful appropriate patterns on it. It's Israeli-made to boot! Perhaps if we refuse to buy "low rise toddler briefs" they won't make them anymore, I hope! Anyway, if you don't buy mass-market apparel, then you can find perfectly good appropriate attire, in the more upscale shops.

Helene

6:42 PM  
Anonymous Brooklyn said...

Sometimes I wonder; since when do the kids under 18 make decisions for their parents. Whatever happened to teaching your children dignity and self-respect, as well as respect for earning your own money and not nagging and bullying their parents into spending theirs'. I started working at the age of 12. By 16 I was going to school and working full time at night. Everything I ever got, including college, auto insurance and my cars, was paid by me. I lived with my parents and they put food on the table, lots of it, but that was it. I'm grateful to them for teaching me self-respect. My kids will follow in my footsteps. I doubt very much they are going to be looking to make fashion statements when they have EARN their money with hard work. The only condition I impose on them is, in order to have a job they have to maintain above 90% average in school. Otherwise they get NOTHING but food, house and basic clothes.

8:42 AM  
Blogger T. said...

The clothing styles for young children and tweens (let along teens) has become utterly suggestive. Why is it cute for a 6 year old to wear a shrug? Why are kids being dressed like mini-adults? Yes, the world has become over-sexualized and this has spread over to the Jewish world.

Just because a top has sleeves doesn't guarantee it to be tznius.

2:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know exactly what you mean. I too think these fancy techno gadgets are no good and hurt us more than they help. Heck, I remember when they first rolled out electric powered lights and mechanical horses, I knew it would lead to no good. People gett’n layzier, stayin up till the late hours of the night- up to who knows what. And don’t you even get me started on summer activities. I used to have to do my business out in the wilderness and even have to catch my own food. Before I knew it, kids were sleepin indoors, getting food prepared for them 3 times a day. It was like sendin these kids away to a pampered hotel. Aint no character buidlin in that.

And that’s all I got to say about that.

8:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NEthing on the O-MOM CASE?

1:30 AM  
Blogger FemaleJewishBlogger said...

'Mom, I thought I was supposed to keep my panties OUT of there!" '

That is TOO funny and true!

The longer I start dressing modestly (not always a skirt, and sometimes short sleeves--but not provocative, ever) the more it feels like the rest of the world is a competition for which woman/child can be the most sexualized and "easy" looking. It must give a feeling of power...that really in essence detracts from the person.
It just has started to look to me that all these people seem insecure, and that's why they're dressing this way. (Not to blame the individual, but society with it's consumer-advertising that uses the female body to sell everything.)

6:08 PM  
Anonymous Joel said...

If you have an issue with low-rise underwear for children, you might be interested, or disgusted, or amused, by the Australian satire group the Chaser's take on the underage fashion market... http://youtube.com/watch?v=OEHOvpF_oY4

9:58 AM  
Anonymous Cyberdov said...

About the phone calls - I am sure glad that my kids go to camp with a 'no cell phones allowed' policy. But just wait until your kids are older - I have friends with kids spending a post-high-schol year in Israel, and so help me, some claim that they speak to their kids AT LEAST once a day - sometimes 3 times daily. Is this normal?

8:31 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

Hi Orthomom,
You reckoned that you sound prudish and are behind the times—well I can go one better.

You asked why a toddler who wears a size 4 underwear would need "low rise briefs". I would ask why a woman who wears any size underwear would also need to wear "low rise briefs".

I don't like how women's underwear is designed for the purpose of exposing flesh, rather than covering it.

7:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone wrote:
Why is it cute for a 6 year old to wear a shrug?

My response:
It's cute to add an extra splash of color to an outfit, and a shrug is one way to do it without overheating the child. It's also cute to take a tank top, put a shrug on top, and voila -- long, modest sleeves without adding an extra layer to the body that would overheat the child.

Low-rise underwear compared to what? Compared to a bikini, in which case the rant is fully justified? Or compared to granny-panties that go all the way up to the belly button and stick out above one's skirt waistband, looking ridiculous? Come on. Nobody sees a little girl's underwear, I hope. Worry about what goes OVER the underwear.

And please, parents, teach your little girls how to sit cross-legged on the floor in kindergarten, without exposing her privates. Teach them to think about what people are seeing when they're on a swing set and their legs are flailing to push them higher, and their skirts are billowing. But underwear? Unless you think that people are going to see your daughter's underwear, there are bigger issues.

Like Trailer Trash Barbie, Hoochie Barbie, and My Pretty Prostitute Barbie. Those are just horrible.

12:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found this blog while looking for low rise underwear for my 3 1/2 yr old. I have to agree with the last posting made by anonymous. My daughter has an issue (and always has) with waistbands going over her belly button and onto her little tummy. I don't blame her -- I think it is uncomfortable as well. She wears low rise jeans and shorts mostly from Wal-Mart and Old Navy, with the adjustable waistbands. You can't ever see her underwear, but you don't see her crack either. I do not think there is any harm in this whatsoever.

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