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Tuesday, September 25, 2007

Help Wanted

Thursday night's forecast calls for hours of rain. The usual low-tech method we use to keep our Sukkah dry (a tarp thrown over the schach) is really not great when there's anything more than a drizzle coming down, as the water pools and the tarp sags. So my question is, does anyone have any brilliant ideas for keeping a sukkah dry that can be done in a couple of hours tomorrow with readily available building supplies by some not-quite-so-handy people? Please leave any suggestions in comments. If I use your suggestion (and it works), I'll be your BFF.

91 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you can get a pole up in the middle of the sukkah and through the roof, you can make a peak in the tarp and the water should sheet off.

10:59 PM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

I'm thinking a few poles a foot or so above the top in the front, with a piece of wood across them to keep it semi-level and from ripping.. Same in the middle, if needed, (you don't have one of those 800 sq ft jobs, do you ;-)...?) but a little lower, so the water goes off the back. Secure the tarp to the sukkah a little below the top in front so you can get in the door. Then pull the sides and back down tight and tie them off. I would use string or thin rope, not bungee cords, so the weight of the water can't stretch them. Tie the knots tight and just cut the rope off if they won't come out. Use new rope if it rains again.

11:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone have any further information on the kidnapping (reported in today's Newsday) of a teenage boy on West Broadway in Cedarhurst this past Sunday PM?

11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The first post is correct. The other thing you can do is hang two or so tarps on angles over the sukkah so when it rains, it deflects the water from the top of the sukkah. This method is used in camping all the time. You may have to string them tree-to-tree.

I suggest using a teepee next year ;)

7:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from a camping friend,
if you use rope
after its nice and tight in the ground, tie some colorful strips of rags, on the rope itself.
Day or/and night you would be shocked how you forget the rope is there!
and you trip over it and go flying!! we don't need grandma or you flying across the yard, or driveway.

8:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just put a tarp over the table and chairs inside. The schach will dry by itself when the sun comes out.

9:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

here's a novel approach. not being disingenuous whatsover.

why not try eating inside your home if it rains? undoubtedly the sukkah will get wet and, even more undoubtedly, nothing "bad" will happen to you or your family from doing so!

12:40 PM  
Blogger MUST Gum Addict said...

Each year I say I will build a better system -- and each year I say, I'll do it next year. I have an idea in place though using 1x2 pieces of wood running at 3 foot intervals on an extreme angle. The angle is enough to keep water from pooling. At the moment, I'm using string instead of the wood, which obviously gives somewhat.

But here's something I've done in the past with great success -- create 2 or 3 holes in the tarp in strategic locations. Then when it rains, only 2 or 3 spots get wet (use a garbage can if you'd like) -- this way you keep the seats wet and you keep the lights from shorting out :)

Chag Sameach!

1:04 PM  
Blogger MUST Gum Addict said...

Ack -- meant to say keep the seats DRY. SIGH.

1:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whenever I go to a football game and it's raining, I wear an umbrella hat, they're very practical and keep your eyes nice and dry; which is more than I can say for the food.

1:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a. to 12:40 - what if the rain has stopped, but everything is soaked. That is what OM is trying to avoid.

b. To 1:20 - thanks, but umbrellas can not be used on yom tov.

My idea is to buy a raincoat, boots and plastic plates and utensils, then eat between the dripping rain drops

1:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not a rav (not even close, trust me), but my understanding is that if physical conditions are making the sukkah physically uncomfortable to inhabit, then you wouldn't "have" to eat in it, even after the rain had stopped, and had left everything waterlogged. Just as you wouldn't eat in a waterlogged dining room, you don't have to eat in a temporarily uninhabitable sukkah. My advice is to just let it dry out naturally. We use patio furniture that have holes which allow water to drain and quickly dry.

2:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boo HOO!!!

It's absolutely POURING here in Miami too.

The forecast is for rain tomorrow and Friday too without a break. The children are so disappointed.

Hag Sameah!!

3:01 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I will let you know what we went with after Yom Tov.

And as to these suggestion:
why not try eating inside your home if it rains? undoubtedly the sukkah will get wet and, even more undoubtedly, nothing "bad" will happen to you or your family from doing so!

I'm not a rav (not even close, trust me), but my understanding is that if physical conditions are making the sukkah physically uncomfortable to inhabit, then you wouldn't "have" to eat in it, even after the rain had stopped, and had left everything waterlogged. Just as you wouldn't eat in a waterlogged dining room, you don't have to eat in a temporarily uninhabitable sukkah.

I appreciate the advice, but te object here is to prevent the sukkah from getting waterlogged because we actually WANT to eat in the sukkah. I'm not looking for loopholes - the kids are very excited to fulfill the mitzvah of eating in a sukkah, and I'm trying to create a situation where even if it rains, we are as comfortable as possible during the meals after. Also, the furniture is not really the issue here as much as the decorations. The kids made beautiful decorations, and I don't want them to get ruined.

3:19 PM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

my sugestion is to take a beam as long as the longer dimention of the sukkah (if you don't have one long enough, nail two together in the middle) and lay it on two vertical poles in the middle of the sukkah (put holes in the beam where they will touch the vertical poles, and put nails in the top of the vertical holes that will fit inside the hole in the beam, thisway it is not possul schach) and then when it rains throw the tarp over it and watch all the rain pour down the sides of the sukkah. If you want you could put nails in the side of the sukkah to temprarily tie the tarp in place by putting the ropes already in the tarp, and then wrapping them around the nails.

(if you've done it right you should end up with something like a pup tent over the top of your sukkah.)

oh, and btw, you are not fulfilling mitzvah sukkah at all if you sit in the sukkah while it is raining, and infact if your sukkah is so wet that you would leave a room of your house if it were the same, you're actualy not supposed to be eating there.

4:44 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

It was clear, warm and sunny here in the Holy Land. A great solution that works most times although occasionaly we do have some bad weather.

Moadim L'Simcha

4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you talking about yom tov days? Wouldnt it be problematic to open a tarp on top of the sukka ON yt itself? Kind of like opening an umbrella which is not permitted on YT or shabbos?

I'm missing something....

5:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...like opening an umbrella which is not permitted on YT or shabbos?

I am not a rav, but this may be permitted because the succah is already covered (with scach), so you can't cover something that is already covered (more accurately, you are not performing a melacha when covering something that is already covered).

9:08 PM  
Anonymous anonymousmom said...

Next year, plan an educational trip to Monsey before Succos. You will learn how to make every conceivable manner of "Schlock" as we call that covering here. The guy at the local home depot even works it out for you, Sukkah plans too btw. And he's Catholic. I can't make a suggestion, though, as my husband still hasn't figured out a way for our particular Sukkah set up. Chag Sameach. Enjoy Hershey or wherever Five Towns people go.

11:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI:

PRE K BUSSING NO LONGER AVALIABLE, SEE LPS WEB SITE.

JUDGE IN ALBANY DENIED STAY.

7:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pre-K bussing for the universal pre-k program is still running.

2:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Newsday
CEDARHURST: Suspect sought in boy's kidnapping
MICHAEL FRAZIER
September 25, 2007

A 15-year-old boy was kidnapped in Cedarhurst, then released unharmed, by two men, one armed, who robbed him of $30 and a cell phone, Nassau police said.

One suspect has been arrested. Police continued yesterday to search for his accomplice.

The Cedarhurst boy, whose identity wasn't disclosed, was walking near West Broadway and Clinton Avenue about 9:45 p.m. Sunday when two men he didn't know pulled up in a black Honda Accord, showed a handgun and ordered him into the car.



After taking the cash and phone, the men returned to Cedarhurst and dropped the boy off before fleeing. Police tracked one suspect, Scotty J. Smith, 20, of 1 N. Drive, Long Beach.

Smith was arrested Sunday on charges of second-degree kidnapping, first-degree robbery and first-degree criminal use of a firearm. He pleaded not guilty yesterday in First District Court in Hempstead and was ordered held on $400,000 bond or $200,000 cash. Police did not have a detailed description of the second suspect.

3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this what out tax dollars are paying for?! 16 year old Nazi's?!

Cedarhurst, NY - Self-Described Nazi Teen Heads to Court for Attacking Girls
Cedarhurst, NY - A 17-year-old girl, a self-described Nazi, was charged with attacking three younger girls while spewing anti-Jewish hate speech in Cedarhurst, as was reported first here on Vos Iz Neias.
Police say Eva Adi, of Hewlett, and an unknown male suspect confronted the three girls at the intersection of Grant Place and Oakland Avenue around 2 a.m.
The pair, who claimed to be Nazis and said they hated Jews, then punched each girl in the face.

Adi will be arraigned later today on charges of felony assault, misdemeanor assault and two counts of aggravated harassment.
She will appear in First District Court in Hempstead.

Police say the three female victims, two 15-year-olds and a 16-year-old, were treated for various injuries.
One of the victims reportedly had a laceration to her nose, which may have been fractured. [wabc]

U/D: 14:09
Adi, of 16 Trinity Place in Hewlett, pleaded not guilty now in First District Court in Hempstead. Bail was set at $5,000 cash or $2,500 bond.

1:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The newspaper reported that Adi herself is Jewish? How is this possible? Jew on Jew hate crime? It is horrible!

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:41pm ...

Oh, how delightful .... OM, can you delete comments such as these?

6:18 PM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

Anonymous said...

"The newspaper reported that Adi herself is Jewish? How is this possible? Jew on Jew hate crime? It is horrible!"

2:08 PM

Well, maybe it's not true. Ever think of that? This is what the victims CLAIM she said. If it was even her. Innocent until proven guilty, remember? If the accused, who is 19 not 17 by the way, has a lick of sense, I'll assume SHE hasn't made any statements.

The papers also said:

"...the ordeal began when the victims invited two boys who were hanging out with Adi to join them in Cedarhurst about 2 a.m. on Sunday.

The victims were sitting at the corner of Grant Place and Oakland Ave. smoking a hookah tobacco pipe when Adi and the others arrived"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/09/27/2007-09-27_long_island_teen_nazi_charged_with_beati.html

So...we have 15 year old high school girls hanging out on a street corner, with boys, getting high, at 2:00 in the morning. Judging by the girls' injuries we can assume there was a fight of some sort.

That's pretty much all we know is true. And really, we only know the fight part is true, since the rest is just their story. But why admit to the hanging out, smoking with the boys thing if it didn't happen?

Disclaimer: Just for the record, I am slightly acquainted with the accused girls family, but I am not saying that "she's not that kind of kid" as I don't know her well enough.


Anon. 1:14:
With all due respect, what the **** does this have to do with my tax dollars??

Also, I'll second the motion of 6:18 PM.

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eva Adi is Jewish. In the midst of her anger (probably drug fueled), she ran off her mouth, said terrible things and got physical. It is like two black guys hanging out, drinking too much, start fighting and calling each other the "N" word. I wonder if it would be called a racial incident if one shot or stabbed the other after calling one the "N" word.

Interesting. Sad, but interesting.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is a simple idea for a schlock used by someone I know and works wonderfully. Screw or nail two 2/4s together and lay it lenthwise accross the top/center of the sukkah (if the sukkah is too long you can use two sets of 2x4s provided who have a support in the center). Then take 2/3s, screw them (in sets of two - not too tightly) together at one end so that you can create a "v" out of the two 2x3s. Lay the 2x3s (# of sets you will need depends on the size of the sukkah but I would suggest no more than rougly 3 feet from one to the next) accross the sukkah the opposite direction of the 2x4 so that the pivoting part of the "v" (the bottom of the "v" where the two 2x3s are screwed together) is laying over the 2x4. You then have a sloped roof that you can roll the schlock. The schlock should be tied down so that it is relatively taut but you don't need to gover over board stretching it to the limit.

3:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Rabbi" Neal,

Please tell Jesus he is welcome in our sukkah. Tell him to bring some beer.

love,
Thirsty Jew

7:44 PM  
Blogger eem said...

You can open the tarp if it's already rolled up on top of the schach (like a retractable roof). Otherwise, it's muktza (not a melacha.

8:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You people need a bath anyway

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

help wanted
how do i explain to my 4 year old that she cant go on the bus but her sisters can ?
How do I translate illegal in 4 year oldease when she has already done it and we phsyed her up a whole summer about it.
This whole on-off-on-off is confusing for me let alone a child.
what are you telling your kids.?

2:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:46

I am a private school parent who was against this Pre K process from the start, from a cost and lack of open process in the BOE.

I am sorry that you have to go through so much explaination about the bussing situation, but here are the facts:

1. Your child could not have been on the bus more then 10 days in September. No a lifelong benefit now taken away.

2. It has been almost 2 weeks since the last school bus trip. Your child has no set routine that would expect a bus. If it had tpo be taken away now after a 2 week hiatus is better then during regurlar school time.

3. I think we all knew in early September that it was possible that this bussing would stop even on a temporary basis. Certainly since 9/28 the community has known that the Judge in Albany rejected a stay.

So, IMHO you had ample time to prepare your youngster for this possibility and not being on the bus will not cause irreperable harm to your child.

8:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I realize it's a bit late, but...

The trick is to have a tarp that slopes over the sukkah. The water runs down the slope of the tarp and doesn't pool and sag the tarp that way.

The most elegant way to do it is to attach a sloping frame over the top of the sukkah. You attach one end of the tarp to the high end of the frame, rolled around a long dowel attached to the frame. Tie some rope/twine to the unattached end of the tarp. When you expect rain, you just pull the tarp down the sloped frame using the rope. Wind the rope around two pegs installed on either side of the the sukkah for this purpose, pulling the tarp taut while doing so.

If you install the dowel so it can rotate, then you can install a crank arm on one end of the dowel and just crank the tarp back up when things dry out.

This works fine if you have a wooden sukkah you can attach lumber to. If you have a prefab sukkah, like a fiberglass panel type or metal frame type, you will have to be creative in how you attach a frame to the sukkah. For a fiberglass panel sukkah, you might have to drill holes in the corner members. Alternatively, you can build a frame that has legs that rest on the ground and are adjacent to the corners of the sukkah.

If the sukkah uses one wall of the house, one can fasten a board to the house itself, and use that as part of a tarp frame.

One more method: install a center pole in the sukkah, to "tent" the center of the tarp and help the water run off of it. You can simply put a bracket on the roof joist to hold the pole upright, so that you can slip the pole in when it starts to rain, and remove it when you need to. Make sure you pad the top of the pole with duct tape or something else, to keep it from tearing a hole in the tarp.

9:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

helpful advise 8 55 am thanks

4:38 PM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Move to Israel....rain here on Sukkot is practically non-existent :)

6:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That last statement is wierd. When I was in Israel for sukkot a number of years ago, the biggest rain storm I ever saw was on Shmini Atzeret.

Givat Mordcahi was foldded to waist level.

12:54 PM  
Blogger miriamp said...

So? In Israel, Shimini Atzeret isn't Sukkot anymore. (It's not really here either...)

10:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, so the rainny season starts on Hoshana Rabbah, and the follds start at once??

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