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Sunday, September 23, 2007

The "Can't We All Just Get Along" Post

You know, I am sick and tired of the rancor that has been ratcheted up between members of the District 15 community - on both sides. First and foremost, let me save my most withering criticism for those members of our "community" (sadly, a loose term these days) who have taken the situation as an opportunity of sorts to spew the most vile sorts of hatred. It's hard to believe that people really feel that ANY situation warrants allowing a forum for the worst kind of hate-filled diatribes. Imagine a site where people decry the fact that a community has been overrun by residents of a certain race, and bemoan the fact that this group of residents opens their own types of stores, or speak their own language among themselves, or lower property values. Sounds like that site would be a pretty icky place to visit. no? Not exactly the most tolerant, liberal-minded forum. Not quite espousing the values we like to think America stands for, right? Yet somehow, that sense of propriety toward our neighbor no matter how different from ourselves, has been thrown to the wayside when the discussion turns to Orthodox Jews. Do you expect me to believe that comments like this are simply an offshoot of the local school district drama and that otherwise everyone would have no problem at all with Orthodox Jews? Here's a small taste, and I think we can see that these ranting have nothing to do with our district's woes and everything to do with hate:
Well, I have found that people started fleeing this community like a sinking ship as soon as the (...hmmmmm how do I say this while being politically correct...) Staunchly Religious people began moving in (yea, that works). It's going to be like Crown Heights, the only people that will stay are the people that cant afford to leave and then the rest of the country can begin to hate you here also..
And more:
Regardless, the public school population certainly is decreasing because nobody wants to live next to the Orthodox. You seem to have 2 versions of a population, the people who have a great deal of money and have no problem showing it and the people who have their children wear the same clothes day after day after day regardless of the stains…ewwww. You people mass produce faster than rabbits, no wonder you have more children in the school district, non-orthodox average 2.7 children while the Orthodox population is 6.72.
Yet more:
Let me know which districts have the least "cut in" by the private school community so I can move out of this neighborhood, but not before I make sure that I sell it to a nice Palestinian family.
Sweet. The bottom line is that we should not allow ourselves to become tolerant of this type of expression. The First Amendment may allow it, but it certainly shouldn't stop us from stepping back and assessing our comments as to whether they are doing anything to help this conflict. Appealing to hate and bigotry has been tried, presumably as a last resort, by supporters of the "public school candidates" in the last election. It backfired in a big way. The majority of district residents made it clear that they don't want to see the hate card played. Playing up people's hatred or mistrust for another demographic group is simply not the way to achieve any sort of peace in this community. And I don't think anyone can argue that a detente is desperately needed. So to the community at large (on any and every side of the divide): you know who you are. Watch your mouths and your keyboards. You will get us nowhere with your hatred and your rude and bigoted rantings.

To that end, I call out to my fellow private school parents as well. Yes, the Pre-K ruling was a disappointment. Yes, we can still hold out hope for it's reversal. But that shouldn't stop us from feeling invested in the success of our district's public school students. We need to encourage the board - that we helped democratically elect - to find solutions to the district's poor performance, not just constantly use the selfsame poor performance as simply an election season talking point. Let's impress upon our partners in the school district that we are expressing unhappiness with district children's unhealthy scores not as a means to cut funding, but because we want to see them improve. You want free building usage? Have you seen the tracks and the fields at the public schools lately? Maybe if we insist that the board ensures they are in top-notch shape, as opposed to the shape they are currently in, then there will not be as much resistance on the part of public school parents to the peaceful and equitable sharing of facilities.

I think we can all agree that the pre-K busing fiasco was nothing but detrimental to our community as a whole. What may have been proposed with the best of intentions on the part of the board - throwing the private school community a bone so that they could feel more invested in the district's successes and thus more inclined to vote in more generous budget increases to benefit the public school system in the future - instead drove the wedge even deeper. The anger of the public school community against the board for daring to provide the already-resented private school community with a perk, was topped only by the resentment against the public school community for what was seen by most as a retaliatory appeal against the private school community in order to deprive them of a busing service that no one had raised any concerns about in the past.

But seriously, people. Let's pull ourselves together. It's outta control and no one's benefiting from the endless back-and-forth bickering. Certainly not our kids, who seem to be losing services in one retaliatory strike after another. If we don't do it for propriety's sake, at least we can do it for the sake of the innocent precious children we all brought into this world.

UPDATE: A commenter pointed out a inflammatory comment I had missed, as apparently made by a private school community member. In the interest of balance, I am noting that the comment, which is indeed hateful, shows us that there have been inappropriate comments emanating from both sides of the divide (which I did note in my original post as well).

192 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

(loud clapping)

1:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, but it's hard to see how losing busing is a loss for pre-k kids. I don't even understand who would allow their preschooler on a school bus. It's much safer for them to be taken by their parents.

2:04 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but it's hard to see how losing busing is a loss for pre-k kids. I don't even understand who would allow their preschooler on a school bus. It's much safer for them to be taken by their parents.


But see, you completely missed my point. My point is that it's time to see things from other people's perspective - or accept that there even IS another perspective - so that we can try to come to some sort of shared goals. You don't have to feel that losing Pre-K busing would be a loss for your kids (though it is obviously considered a need for public school kids). You have to understand that there's a different perspective out there. Does every private school parent have to see that there is a need for basketball, football, baseball, golf, tennis, bowling, lacrosse, track teams in the public school system? That's not their choice or decision. They have to accept that there are other perspectives out there as well.

2:11 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

One of the most powerful phrases in the world is, "Maybe they're right."

When individuals entertain the possibility that their opponent may be right, incredible breakthroughs occur.

Here's an idea:

People on both sides of this issue should write 50 reasons why the other side is right.

Once private school parents start to realize why public school parents are so upset, and when public school parent start to realize why private school parents are so upset the acrimony would end.

I guarantee that if everyone would do this, it wouldn't be long before we all begin finding mutually beneficial, mutually palatable solutions to the conflict.

3:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OM-

I am a HAFTR parent, and am deeply involved in the community, but

Pre K Bussing - Its a loser. The courts provide for a high degree of respect for Mills decision. Is it worth the high price of the litigation and the likleyhood of an adverse court decision? My vote no.

Savesd15blog = While i didn't see u name it, that other blog has good intentions, but many inappropirate comments on both sides. The rehoteric is out of hand and has to stop.

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HAFTR parent:

As an attorney who has read the opinion and some of the legal filings, as well as the relevant statutes and case law, I can assure you that this is far from an open-and-shut case. To suggest that the district should not appeal the decision because "the courts provide a high degree of respect for Mills decision" is absurd. There is no question that courts impose a higher threshold to overcome a decision of the Commissioner, but that alone should not be a reason not to appeal his decision.

I would think the district should arrive at its decision of whether it should pursue an appeal based on the advice of its legal counsel as to the likelihood of success, and its assessment of what is best for the district.

While we don't know exactly what the legal counsel's assessment is (though we can obviously assume that the feel that they have a reasonably strong case), what is best for the district would ultimately turn on the will of the voters who overwhelmingly supported the referendum.

5:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a "right wing" yeshiva parent.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The first thing the private school population (that I am a member of) should do is tell the board to release the money from the sale of the #1 school and use it to do capital improvements for the remaining buildings. It will go a long way towards rebuilding trust. I don't think any of us will miss money we already spent, and it will really help the public schools. We have to keep the schools in good repair anyway and this way we won't haveto borrow the money in a few years when things get really bad.
If we want this ridiculous "war" to end both sides must give. And we have to give first, because it is so obvious.

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please understand - this was not a retaliatory appeal - the pre-k bus simply seemed illegal; turns out the Commissioner says it is illegal. And here we are in what 7:26 calls a "war." Actually, it was just taxpayers (many with no kids in school, some with kids in private school) questioning what seemed to be an inappropriate expenditure, using the one pathway they are supposed to use - no name calling, no politics - doing what the State Education Department says should be done, without rancor or disrespect. I agree, "we the people" should stop fighting with each other, let the courts handle those disputes and leave name calling, personalities and religions out of it.

7:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow..
before any of the ruff crowd shows up.... all the above bloggers
actually have made sense and care as much as I do!! There is hope. Even if some of the ruff crowd shows up from BOTH sides, let's keep on working together.. Maybe one day soon we can show up at the board meetings together to tell them, how we the public ( no reference to where our children go to school) want "our" district to be. thanks, hope to see you next month.

7:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you, orthomom. thank you, thank you, thank you.

8:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i totally agree. i find it unbelievable that the school board that i helped elect is sitting on 30 million dollars and not putting a penny into the schools.

what we need is good faith! good faith people - is that so hard?

8:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from HAFTR parent to 5:42. While it may not be a slam dunk, its a journey which the BOE should not be fighting on someones elses dime, the taxpayers.

The standard to overturn Mills decision is either arbitray and capricious or against prevailing law.

It is clear from Mills written decision that it was well thought out, and has a logical conclusion, so it is not arbitrary and capricious.

As to the issue of against prevailing law, it appears to be a case of 1st impression, and as such, the court will be asked to "make law" where it does not already exist. As the commissioner has ruled, the decision of the commissioner carries a hugh amount of weight with the court. Even the local Judge was critical of the likleyhood of success.

Is it worth the cost to the BOE's credibility?? My vote, no.

Is it better to pick the battle on a more clearcut issue?? my vote, yes.

But this is one persons view.

The point of this thread was that we should all speak with derech eretz, and I have always tried to do so, and urge other to follow.

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think the school board has opposed investing the money in capital improvements. That seems to be one of the mischaracterizations being promoted on that other blog. The board is just waiting to first get a complete assessment of which buildings will be closed in the near future (and as a result should not be the beneficiaries of such capital improvements) and what the priority improvements are in all the other buildings.

Of course, they are also working hard to make sure that the corrupt bidding system that has been used in the past for conctractors will be overhauled before any of this money gets overspent on insider contractors.

8:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is clear from Mills written decision that it was well thought out, and has a logical conclusion, so it is not arbitrary and capricious

The apparent logic of his ruling may not carry much wheight when a court considers that there are opinion in which he has ruled the other way where the statutes are silent.

8:43 PM  
Anonymous sd15 parent said...

This post is unbelievable. It should be printed in all the local papers. everyone needs to step back and consider the other's viewpoint. It's our only hope.

8:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:40pm
"While you may feel that the bd. is not opposed to fixing the schools", "or-which building will be closed"
1) regardless if you feel, the bd. already spoke-say what?
For one dime to be spent to fix anything- a public vote must be taken- for a dime to be spent.
2) I can see how everyone thinks there is sooo much room in the public schools, have some news for you, they are pretty full.
Everyone would just love to forget about all our special ed students, however, they are here to stay. We need classrooms for them, not closets, their providers need rooms, not hallways to deliever the services in, there are speech, OT, PT etc,
We already house some of our special ed students in #6 in an old music room that was cut in half, to make two rooms for them when #1 and #6 merged.
So PLEASE wait and see IF A school can be closed, last year the reports said it was not possible at that time.
And just that everyone is aware- our special ed students are required to take the mandated state tests like everyone else.
If a child can not speak, or read or write, how can they take the tests,?
The government doesnot care, they too MUST take the tests.
Please don't disregard what I wrote, because you just can't believe it to be true, when it comes to special ed, trust me I have done my homework.

9:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, I guess I am one of those rough people who have just shown up…

I don't think the school board has opposed investing the money in capital improvements. That seems to be one of the mischaracterizations being promoted on that other blog. This School Board could just as easily placed the money in a capital improvement fund which would not need a referendum for usage, this clearly indicates their intentions to take themselves off the hook. Now, in the event that repairs are needed are not made available to be accomplished due to monetary reasons, they can very easily say that the will of the people was not to make these repairs.

The board is just waiting to first get a complete assessment of which buildings will be closed in the near future (and as a result should not be the beneficiaries of such capital improvements) and what the priority improvements are in all the other buildings. Why is it that less than 2 years in power, this particular board is already looking to sell off more property? If there was any attainable peaceful solution to the current set of circumstances, the board needs to stop making decisions which do nothing but further infuriate the Public School population. Don’t parade out the Superintendent to make an announcement that they are looking into the closing of 2 schools less than 1 year after a consultant was brought in and made statements to the effect that several years from now there may possibly be a school available to be closed, but not at this time.

Of course, they are also working hard to make sure that the corrupt bidding system that has been used in the past for conctractors will be overhauled before any of this money gets overspent on insider contractors This statement sounds amazingly like Uri Kaufman wrote it, how appropriate I feel since it was his contractors which were brought in to make estimates on the Public School building’s repair needs. On the other hand, has anyone even bothered to place our busing out for a competitive bid in the last decade or so, shouldn’t someone look into this.

9:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With all due respect, I am sure that if anyone chose to look through all of your reader's comments, we could find a few statements which were inappropriate to say the least. I have read both Blogs for the past few months and I enjoy your 'rants' as well as the viewpoints of the other one, although I often do not like the comments made on either...But for total disclosure, you really should state that the Admin on the other blog made the following statement when the anti-Semitic and divisive statements were being made:

"SAVESD15 said...
Ladies and Gentlemen, we do not want to squelch free speech and turn off comments, so we would appreciate if some of the posters could tone it down a bit. This isn't a religious issue; this thread is for constructive comments in regard to Pre-K busing. If anyone is interested in inflammatory speech, I am sure you can look for a KKK, JDL or Black Panther website out there to contribute to. So in the interest of civility, we would appreciate a degree of courtesy."

Maybe if everyone would "tone [the rhetoric] down a bit", we could actually look into peaceful solutions to the problems at hand without lawsuits threats and the animosity which is running rampant in this community.

9:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:59
9"11
9:29
thanks

9:39 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"Sorry, I guess I am one of those rough people who have just shown up…"

Actually, your comment is:

1) well-reasoned
2) respectful
3) articulates an observation that actually furthers the discussion without miring everyone in rancor and suspicion
4) presented as a means of informing, not just to make the opposing view wrong.

It's entirely possible most of the "rough people" are like you ... and we'd all benefit from a chance to see it every once and a while.

If we would, the people in this community just might start liking each other a whole lot more.

10:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:03 and for 9:11
It's entirely possible most of the "rough people" are like you...
and we'd all benefit from a chance to see it every once and a while.

I like the ruff crowd, they tell you like it is,
only there are those that LOVE to stir the pot, just to see how they can make someone else take the bait,
never ceases to amaze me how many take the bait. Both sides have the hecklers.
With more 10:03's and 9:11's we can work this out. Finally!!!

10:29 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

But for total disclosure, you really should state that the Admin on the other blog made the following statement when the anti-Semitic and divisive statements were being made:

I wasn't at all critical of the blogger - the commenters are fully to blame for their own comments. I donlt think anyone can disagree that they crossed all boundaries of good taste.

11:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's nice to be able to pick and choose the hateful comments that make your side of this look like innocent victims,

but you left this one out:

Anonymous said...
it no longer matters.. we will take your schools one by one , from under your noses and even in front of your faces... nothing pleases me more than watch as you try to rally the troops and fall over yourselves with your vicious campaigns and your silly fundraisers. Your efforts amount to zilch... Now when you stare at us you'll be staring at us playing on your err our new fields and schools

August 7, 2007 7:25 PM


This one scared me to death. And started thinking is this the bottom line - what they really want from us?

12:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But of course. In fact, I just traced that one back to the president of the board.

12:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you mean murray was the author of that threatening comment?

1:37 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

It's nice to be able to pick and choose the hateful comments that make your side of this look like innocent victims,

but you left this one out:

Anonymous said...
it no longer matters.. we will take your schools one by one , from under your noses and even in front of your faces... nothing pleases me more than watch as you try to rally the troops and fall over yourselves with your vicious campaigns and your silly fundraisers. Your efforts amount to zilch... Now when you stare at us you'll be staring at us playing on your err our new fields and schools


You're absolutely right, that is a hateful comment. Thanks for pointing it out.

2:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you mean murray was the author of that threatening comment?

But of course. World domination is next.

2:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In an effort to equate the situation we are facing at the Lawrence Public School District with other districts who have faced the same dilemma, I looked at a public school district in Rockland County.

I spent the better part of Thursday researching and reading all about the East Ramapo Public School District, which includes Monsey.

The district has approximately 7,000 students in public schools and 25,000 children are transported each day. The school district owns their own busses and directly employs the drivers. Of course it is cheaper to own your own busses and have control over the drivers when transported such a large amount of children.

The majority of students in the East Ramapo Public School District schools are minorities. The school district has many programs that are run in the private schools, such as camps and food programs. I am not sure how the funding goes, but it sounds like the federal and state funds, OUTSIDE of district school taxes for these programs are allocated for such uses. The public school district has a funding director who secures funding for both the public and private schools in ADDITION to what is collected by the public school taxes.

I realize that the East Ramapo School District has problems, but let's face it, so does Lawrence.

Some of the links are:

http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/dept/dept.php?sectionid=4101

http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php?sectiondetailid=37553&sc_id=1190336533

http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php?sectiondetailid=37270&sc_id=1190336558

http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php?sectiondetailid=38183&sc_id=1190336596

http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php?sectiondetailid=38143&sc_id=1190336638

I am sorry I don't know .html well enough to hyperlink, so just "copy and paste" the above into your internet address line.

What strikes me most importantly about this whole issue, and possibly having programs like the above mentioned school district is the fact that the buildings have to be in tip-top shape. We can't even take a look at such programs until our public schools here are stabilized and the repairs and upgrades have taken place.

We're not the only ones in this country with changing demographics. That's why we need to look BEYOND our own gates and see what others are doing. But again, I have to reiterate that NOTHING like this is possible until EVERYTHING in the public school system is fixed and we are operating completely within the laws, including the safety and security of our children in the buildings.

Any thoughts???

7:01 AM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

Anonymous said...

"I am a "right wing" yeshiva parent.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The first thing the private school population (that I am a member of) should do is tell the board to release the money from the sale of the #1 school and use it to do capital improvements for the remaining buildings."

Nice thought, but that money is gone forever. The board made sure of that when they stashed it in the tax reserve fund or whatever they call it. They can not "release" it. Only the voters can release it. That's not happening.


Anonymous said...

"Of course, they are also working hard to make sure that the corrupt bidding system that has been used in the past for conctractors will be overhauled before any of this money gets overspent on insider contractors."

8:40 PM

Another fantasy. The board has no say in how the bidding is set up. The rules are set by the state. For example, unlike a private school which can spend their money as they see fit, public tax monies can only be given to contractors who pay their employees the prevailing union wage. A private school or business can hire anyone they want, regardless of the wages paid to their workers, public agencies may not.

As a side note, East Ramapo Public School District charges for building usage, and contracts out all most all of its transportation. Look it up.

7:17 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"It's nice to be able to pick and choose the hateful comments that make your side of this look like innocent victims"

I think this commentor (anonymous 12:27 a.m.) has a very good point.

None of us should tolerate agitators who chime in with outrageous, transparently divisive comments, with little interest in anything but to get attention and rile everybody up.

If everyone would call comments for what they are -- hurtful comments that represent no one but one jerk who gets pleasure out of creating a feeding frenzy -- then we could drive the drive the anger and suspicion away one comment at a time and start moving forward in ways that satisfy everyone who lives in this community.

Also, anonymous 7:01 a.m. brings up a point which I think could be turned on its head. Conflicts between communities with shifting demographics are all to common, and without question we should look outside for models to emulate.

Conversely, I hope you would all agree that it is entirely realistic for this community to work together to create an example unity and practical, mutually beneficial solutions other communities would follow as well.

7:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love how people are still arguing here. This post is not for arguing, hasn't anyone had enough? It appears our blog administrator has had enough. Time for everyone else herer to follow suit.

I will note that it is interesting that had this post been the usual rabble-rousing, it probably would have had hundreds of comments already. I guess hate and anger are more interesting.

7:54 AM  
Anonymous anonymous mom said...

Anon 7:01 is on to something. I was referring to my community in recent comments I made here on another thread. We do have plenty of problems here in East Ramapo and plenty of vitriol and resentment, but there have been some positive changes and smart choices employed by the Orthodox School Board Pres: Nathan Rothschild. I mentioned that at one point he encouraged some members of the Orthodox community to back away from running for the school board positions so as not to "stack" the board. Bottom line, we can all learn from each other in our successes and failures. This is bigger than the Five Towns. Believe it or not, it's even bigger than the Orthodox/non-Orthodox populations. This is America 2007. The private school issue sets us apart, but the anger and resentment at changing demographics and the ramifications in the school system is country-wide. Check out this interesting link about North Carolina:
http://billyliggett.wordpress.com/2007/07/29/sunday-column-new-yorkers-in-nc/
Sound familiar?
They don't mention public school issues specifically, but the changing school culture is a big pet peeve of the people down there.

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:51
put out the bait
1:37
you took it line and sinker.

some just loooovvvveeeee to stir the pot.
Ingore them.
Ideas please.
So is everyone going to come to the bd. meeting end of next month--you know the one the public is allowed to speak/comment. The frist meeting of the month- the public is not allowed to comment.

I sit here and really wonder if a large portion of the private sector
did show up to a bd. meeting would the bd. actually follow up on anything or will they ingore you as they ingore the public sector.

Sorry we are ALL the public sector,

however a large portion of board
meetings there are many public school parents, who comment or ask something of the board. They sit there, listen, don't answer or comment.
NEXT- your 2 minutes are up-NEXT- have to give them a little credit, of late they have let some people go way over their 2 minutes..still they don't respond to any questions.
Wonder if they ingore the private sector if you will feel as many of the public school parents feel...
That they don't care about anything other than the plan they made so long ago.

8:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon 12:27am

I wrote that to give sarcastic perspective, but I am a public school parent. OM's plea for civility makes sense to me. Here's to a new leaf...

8:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ref 12:27 and orthomom2:22am!!(get some sleep:)
The really interesting thing about the post was the timing. NOt only the hateful writing, that blogger wrote about the taking our public schools from right under our noses, funny thing is at the time the blogger was writing that lovely love letter to the public school parents- the school board meeting had not started yet..
the superintendent had not made the proposal- to looking into closing any schools.
SOOOO how did blogger know BEFORE the bd. meeting???Family member of bd. members??
People wonder why the public school parents are afraid??
Or ask is there a hidden agenda??
When "a" person can make a public
comment on something that hasn't even taken place yet???

9:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's 8:59am again,

just goes to show how bad a "joke" it was. perhaps I was also behind the grassy knoll?! sorry everyone for giving theorists like anon 9:03am fuel.

9:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To call that a "joke" is a pretty cheap shot at diminishing the joke's ripple effect.

Especially considering that is exactly the agenda of a non-public, tax-reduction-minded, yeshiva-interest only school board.

I still agree that getting all of this behind us is in everyone's best interest. But even I will admit, the comments on Orthomom's blogsite from public school parents do not compare to the deeply disturbing thoughts of Anon August 7, 7:35 PM.

And the past "majority" voting patterns supported this mentality time and time again.

Let's say we keep private schools private, and public schools public.

You can do your lobbying for changes to laws on your own dimes, what say?

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I appreciate your update, Orthomom. I really do.

But you still print only those horrific comments from the public school side of this.

You would have to walk a mile in the shoes of a public school parent in District to understand that trust in the private school community will only come in baby steps to start.

To that end, please accept the notion that everything given to the public schools can only be done by "voter" approval is utter NONSENSE.

Capital repairs have historically been done simply by putting a line in the budget for this expense.

Closing/consolidating and demolishing our schools was not the way to our hearts. Neither were the budget vote-downs.

We have learned a lot from this bitter experience: First, NEVER take our precious schools for granted, and we are now forever proactive in what happens in this district.

YOU NEVER KNOW WHO HAS THEIR "EYES ON YOUR DEMISE".

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Continued, 11:23 AM

I should have added that if there were any way more children from your community could possibly enroll in our great schools, you would be surprised at how we can all benefit from the excellence that is the Lawrence Public Schools, despite the challenges of ESL, special ed etc.

Is there any way this is possible? It is YOUR district as much as it is OUR district, after all.

Can't religious teachings be done at other times during the day/weekends?

To me, that would truly be the best ending to this saga.

11:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:23/11:38:

I mean this with no malice whatsoever but that would be a complete fantasy. The "private school" parents will not send their children to school with "public school" children because that would seriously dilute their torah observant lifestyle.

Still, a nice thought and sentiment.

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No malice here either, honest.

But, if the above attitude prevents the integration of our district's children, then it should stand to reason that those who choose private would understand that the law does not provide benefits for this choice.

I always believed corporations and trusts provided generously to private religious institutions of all kinds. There should be no need to expect perks from the public school tax base.

All this fighting should have stopped a long time ago. If the laws have not changed by now, I seriously doubt that sitting on a local public school board diverting funds to your whimsy will fly either.

Just trying to understand the point of view that the law is the law, but keep trying anyway by any means?

A bit off topic, but if I ran 3 red lights and were ticketed, do you really think I can change the red light law to suit my need to run through them?

It's sort of what this looks like to me, but only time will tell if the lawyers can really do more for the private school residents of Lawrence or across the nation for that matter. Be well, peace.

1:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 1:06

Well said and thoughtfully put.

1:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you. The law is the law is the law is the law is the law.

That's what we were taught. Change can be a good thing, but not at this cost. I'm glad things are being looked into and stabilized.

2:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the three last posts.

I do think, however, (I'm a public school parent by the way), the all of the resources that the private school students are allowed to have, aren't being rightfully allocated to them either. Whether it is on a school level, or district level, there is more to be taken advantage of.

Many school districts hire a grant writer/Entitlement Officer. This Officer would be in charge of all the grant writing throughout the district to receive and administer funds and grants that are beyond the tax base revenue. These are federal funds Title I, II, III, etc., as well as state grants. Other districts, such as the East Ramapo District has this.

Some of the private schools in the East Ramapo School District run summer camps with their grants, which are open to all district residents. If these camps are specialty camps, for reading, math or writing enrichment, they are open to all district children who are "at risk".

There are ways to be creative without going at each others' necks all the time. This way, the capital fund needs of the buildings can be accomplished as well as the needs of the private school community.

I am actually SHOCKED that our esteemed school board has not brought this up. However, as parents, we can enlighten them and show them the way.

5:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:46 PM said "Please understand - this was not a retaliatory appeal - the pre-k bus simply seemed illegal; turns out the Commissioner says it is illegal. And here we are in what 7:26 calls a "war." Actually, it was just taxpayers (many with no kids in school, some with kids in private school) questioning what seemed to be an inappropriate expenditure, using the one pathway they are supposed to use - no name calling, no politics - doing what the State Education Department says should be done, without rancor or disrespect.


As I understand the facts, pre-k busing for public school children was never provided under the Universal Pre-K program, but under the same authority that is currently under scrutiny. It is hard to make the argument that there was no rancor or disrespect, when it only began seeming like an "inappropriate expenditure" when the Board's authority was exercised in such a way as to include the private school children.

5:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, pre-k busing for public school is allowed under the state's universal pre-k program guidelines, but the state does not pay for the bussing and most districts do not provide bussing even if they provide universal pre-k.

7:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:25 should read the decision that is readily available on the SED website. And 5:25, I thought the point of OM's post is to leave all this innuendo behind. The Commissioner said you are wrong, a judge agreed there is little probability of success in the board's quest to overturn the decision. Stop crying anti-semitism. That is so last week!

9:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pre-k busing for public school children was never provided under the Universal Pre-K

Pre-K busing was offered under what they called the Targeted Pre-K program. That program was merged into the Universal Pre-K program. The judge ordered that public pre-k busing continue at least for this school year. Although most private schools will be closed for two weeks, private pre-k busing stay was only until this Friday. No matter what happens, backup plans should be made.

9:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am actually SHOCKED that our esteemed school board has not brought this up. However, as parents, we can enlighten them and show them the way.

As a public school parent, my first discussion with this current board, was about fundraising. I explained Bloomberg hired Kerry Kennedy to go out and fund raise. I thought it would be a great idea. THe parents at #6 had been trying to get permission to fundraise for replacement of the cancer causing playground for two years. It is the board who told us no. I would think having even a part time person would be good. Perhaps our attorneys don't want there fees to go out the window. Rumor has it the attorneys have talked the board into going all the way to the supreme court, at whose expense, you guessed it our childrens. What are you going to do. If spending thousands of taxpaying dollars to "try" and change the Blaine Amendment, so that 4 year olds can be bussed, I would not be shocked. Although, this attorney has somehow talked our board into spending $200.00 to Albany to take a case to court that the Nassau County Judge basically said had basically no chance of winning. What I resent is the comments saying Long Island hates the "religous" Jews. Unfortunately I know outside of this area, I am hated as a conservative just as much as every other jew in this community. I hope this is worth it,

9:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pre-k busing for public school children was never provided under the Universal Pre-K

Pre-K busing was offered under what they called the Targeted Pre-K program. That program was merged into the Universal Pre-K program. The judge ordered that public pre-k busing continue at least for this school year.


Sounds like doubletalk to me. Target Pre-K and UPK operate under the same rules. The district provided busing under Targeted Pre-K last year and now provides bussing under UPK.

The gist of the Commissioner's decision (with respect to UPK bussing) was that the Commissioner's ruling was that the ruling doesn't relate to UPK bussing. That doesn't mean that the Commissioner ruled that the district is permitted to provide UPK bussing or that the district is prohibited from providing UPK bussing.

The conventional wisdom is that the district is permitted yet not required to provide UPK bussing, because the UPK guidelines allow for UPK funding to be spent on bussing. As a result, some districts provide UPK without bussing and some districts (like Lawrence) provide UPK with bussing and absorb the cost of bussing.

10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No judge ordered prek bus for the school year. only until the end of september because the board's attorney said it was paid up through then. It is disingenuous of the school board to leave hanging those parents whose kids are affected with this talk of bussing until further notice. Unless the Board is planning to continue the bus in violation of the Commissioner's decision and the judge's refusal to extend the stay into october.

10:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The judge ordered that public pre-k busing continue at least for this school year.

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Huh?

You seem to have missed the boat. The suggestion above was that the Commissioner allowed public school pre-k bussing till the end of the year.

What's disingenuous? All the pre-k parents are greatful to the board for persevering on this issue and at least getting them 1 month of bussing. And the board has made it clear that they are doing what they can but there are no guarantees now past the 28th.

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The judge didn't order that public pre-k bussing continue at all. He just said his ruling doesn't relate to public pre-k bussing, which means it's in the district's hands to decide.

10:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, well. Looks like some people just won't give up with the hate. The following comment was left on sd15 today:

"You may be the majority in this area, but certainly not in the state and believe me that you are doing nothing but hurting your own cause. Do you really believe anyone who knows what is going on here will ever look at a religious Jew and feel sorry about what goes on in Israel (ie. bombings, shootings)? Whether you like it or not, if they see what is going on here, they will simply see that Organized Religious Jews can be just as overwhelmingly surreptitious as anyone else when they want their way…congratulations."

12:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, now you�re really reaching to find hate speech.

1:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

talk about just part of a blog taken out of content.

8:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is 5:25 (in response to 9:00). I agree that busing for public school pre K is permitted under Universal Pre-K. However, that is not the authority under which public school pre-k children have been bused. Both public and private school children have been bused, under the presumed authority of the Board (with the nod of the voters) to allocate funds to Pre-K busing. In fact, as I understand, Mills' decision affects public school children as well, so long as their busing is not coming from Universal Pre K grants.

I also agree that there is probably plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle, for the "war" amongst the community. My only point was that in this case, you can't say it was all about the law, considering thatwhen the authority exercised by the Board was only challenged when it was applied to private schools.

8:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok, ladies and gents,
enough of the it seems like double talk to me,
never this or that..
don't you know the old saying.. never say never.
People ask questions others answer.
Sometimes right on the money, other times completly off- leave it to the bloggers when a mistake is written you know it!!
I find when anyone doesn't hear what they want, they just change the topic around, to suite their need.
No double talk is going on.
In regards to pre-K bussing at # 4 before this year 99.9% of the bussing was paid for by a grant.
OH, there goes the screaming again!!
Buses are provided for Kindergarden, sooo if extra seats on bus, same stop -sooo what if K and pre-K go together.(same can be said for private schools).
No extra busses were added.
Please understand prior to this year the only- ONLY- students who got pre-K bussing where targeted students. Meaning---
Well what do you think it means???

Let's think of the children, not just mine, or yours but the little one's and big one's with no homes.
SORRY there are many in district.
Say what???
You are reading right.
Some no homes, many no meals..
no meals yes on both sides of the divide.
so
with our two loaves of bread under our arms, fighting over wellllll.. you have more than me,
there are more than you know that have
NOTHING!!
no clothing, food or homes or even apartments of their own.
SOO people let's really put our differences aside, thank G-D for all we have and share what can be shared.
To the private sector we know how much your tax bill is, the same as mine or higher. In a million years some could not earn enough for one private school student, let alone, several, (every year).
Some People just can't make ends meet, afraid to lose their homes, and they see private school parents upset their 4 years old are not getting bussing. Some in public sector say $20,000 a year for a 4 year's preschool,
and/ but the public schools haven't had a dime spent on them in 5 years. YES, many want what you have.
So in the interest of ALL, charity begins at home, both sides have families that have needs not being met.
Maybe the family mentioned about the dirty clothes is becasue that is the only clothes they have. And if one person even thinks or states well why did they have soo many.. you had a c-section, and tough on you.
We need to work together...for our most needy...if we think of them frist, the next step is easy, it will all fall into place.
I ALWAYS say I WORK at being NICE.
Being mean and nasty is EASY!!
So work at being NICE, yes it is hard, but it is possible.
NOW if you want me to be my mother...that is sooo EASY. you can't see my twisted face..;)

9:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The appeal was submitted because the district limited the busing to only yeshivas. Two of the parents on the appeal send their pre-k children to catholic and prep private pre-k. They found it unfair they could not get busing. The busing for pre-k last year was paid for under the Targeted Pre-k, and an extra grant by the state for the 18 extra children was used. This year the state did away with the Targeted pre-k program. Their is now only one grant the Universal pre-k grant. We received 617,000. There have been numbers as high as 2 million for the cost of pre-k. This is impossible. Transportation as per the state for IN DISTRICT totals 560,000. We need for somone to post the factual information.

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:38
you keep forgetting (on purpose?)
that the vote was for all ALL pre-K students in district.
After vote,
oh sorry it's ONLY for some pre-k students.
The parents who appealed, had their own pre-K kids, not getting a bus to other private pre-K schools.
So stop with the it's because it's OUR pre k- is why they appealed./
Get off the soap box,
do you think if it was for catholic schools -only- they wouldn't have sued??
SHAME on you for thinking yes!!
Now you take the religous portion out of your thinking.
Then maybe we can get somethings done around here.

9:12 AM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"anonymous said...
Well, well. Looks like some people just won't give up with the hate. The following comment was left on sd15 today:

"You may be the majority in this area, but certainly not in the state and believe me that you are doing nothing but hurting your own cause. Do you really believe anyone who knows what is going on here will ever look at a religious Jew and feel sorry about what goes on in Israel (ie. bombings, shootings)? Whether you like it or not, if they see what is going on here, they will simply see that Organized Religious Jews can be just as overwhelmingly surreptitious as anyone else when they want their way…congratulations.""


This isn't hate speech. But it is a naive, Ghetto Jew premise. People who hate Israel or Jewish people will:

a) hate Israel regardless of what Jews do or don't do. History has proven again and again that regardless of what Israel does to raise its positive profile (i.e., disengagement, land-for-peace, humane treatment of bitter murder-intent enemies, humanitarian missions to foreign disasters, technological and scientific innovation, et al), those who hate Israel will continue to do so.

b) those who hate Jews make no distinction between Ultra Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Religious or secular. We are all Jews and that's good enough for them to find fault. Despite what any Jew wants to believe, or whether we like it or not, when it comes to those who hate us, we are all in this together.

9:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In regards to pre-K bussing at # 4 before this year 99.9% of the bussing was paid for by a grant.

How much did this cost?

11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:17am
as 9:07 stated-
the grant for the pre-K program- our district was given $617,000 dollars.
To bus the entire- entire- public school students was $560,000.
Was it a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars spent on pre-K bussing?? I don't think a dollar extra was spent. STOP SCREAMING!!Hear me out...
The busses used to bus the pre-K students were the same busses used for the students of the #4 school.
No extra runs, no extra buses,
the cost for ALL students of #4,#2,#5,#6,middle school and High School is included in the $560,000.
Please realize, if all the pre-K students got sick on the same day, and could not attend school, the buses still went out for the other students in the building.
The lights are still on, the heat is still on, the building still is being used by the other students.
So no extra money is being spent, if the pre-K program was in a seperate building then there would have been an extra cost.

12:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

uhu - and there were free matrons for everyone too, of course

12:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It would be really nice if people could have less adhd moments, and stop bringing in religion. No wonder are kids have so many problems! We blame others for the acts of a few, We use scapegoats, and we demand because we are the majority or minority!!! Wow are we good role models or what. This message is for ALL members of this community

1:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:55
as for me, hear me out....
I was one of the public school parents fighting-yes against the pre-k bussing,
AS THE FRIST item to be addressed for the public school system.
However when I realized no matter what anyone said-the board was pushing on- I fought tooth and nail telling the board how dare they not include matrons for 4years olds. SAFETY-
I always expect the woarst-
I (still) keep thinking if an accident where to happen???
The board just listened to all and did what they wanted. Look at minutes from past bd. meetings- how many people told the bd. that the price would be much higher than $600,000.
Do I feel by placing regular ed students with a special ed student on a bus with a matron is wrong--no--includes the special needs child, the matron is there in case of an emergency--
What??
Keep all the special needs students on the same busses? Drive around town for a couple of hours?
I'll say it " How dare you??!!
So the student who recieves speech services-- which bus do they go on???
Get over it, volunteer at a children's hospital for a day.. then come home, and kiss the ground you walk on...

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:43 THANK YOU !!!!
WELL SAID.

2:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why have all of the uncohesive commenters from that other site started converging on this site?

2:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The the author or authors of 9:01, 9:12, 12:12, 2:11:

It's nice to have more varied perspectives conveyed here, but wouldn't it be possible to organize your thoughts a little more before typing them? All of these comments look the same and it's hard to read past the first few lines when they're composed this way. I don't mean to be insensitive about your writing, but wouldn't you prefer if people would read your comments?

2:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

free matrons for everyone too

First off the public school parents wanted matrons. Personally I think all yeshiva busses should have matrons. I don't know why but the students on private school busses hang out the window, and are standing on a majority of the routes. Second, last year SOME pre-k children were put on special ed routes. Matrons were already on the bus, and the bus was already assigned to #4. Children who go to Kulanu get put on busses with matrons, perhaps haftr children who live within the vicinity of those children can ride with a matron. Also, orthomom, I did not have a problem with pre-k busing until they limited it to 8 yeshivas, if the state did not get involved mark my word, the ACLU, and the NAACP are next. Bus all or nothing, and now it will be nothing.

4:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, we don’t have a community; we are all residents in a fractured town. It’s a sad sight, my children play outside during the week and the weekends and have regularly invited over our religious neighbors and their children to join in. I even have made sure that I have Kosher snacks and cups for them to be served in as not to offend any religious beliefs and yet they choose not to allow them to attend. My children don’t suffer because all of the other children on the block play at my house, but I can see their children wanting to come over and not being allowed for some reason. It’s a sad day everyday on my block and as much as I appreciate the tone of your post, it will never change what’s in someone’s heart.

4:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that the commenters here have lost the topic of the post: what can we do to find common ground and work together to make this corner of the world a better place? We're parents, we're taxpayers, we're residents. We want the same: schools to be proud of and elected officials and administrators who do their jobs fairly, efficiently and well. Name-calling has not gotten us there. Lets try something new.

4:48 PM  
Anonymous Sick and Tired said...

To Anon 2:35: While it is difficult to read some of those posts, how dare you say that uncohesive commenters from that other site are converging on this blog. Many of the private school parents who post comments here are obviously posting comments on the other site. You should read some of their comments. Terrible grammar and spelling. Moreover, comments are made to simply stir the pot. If you want to continue to drive a wedge between public and private school parents, you should continue making gratuitous comments. Way to go to start a new year!!! You are clearly a beacon of light!

5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Second, last year SOME pre-k children were put on special ed routes. Matrons were already on the bus, and the bus was already assigned to #4.

Let's not belabor this issue, but it's now commont knowledge that the transportation office manipulated the IEP system so that every IEP child (even without 1:1 IEPs) had their own matron on a separate bus, so that every bus would end up having a matron, rather than putting a few IEP children together on the same bus with one matron.

Can anyone do the math on this one? Yes, it adds up to a lot of extra money spent in order to make sure that all the public pre-k children had matrons on their buses.

5:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe it was just a coincidence that every one of these IEP children ended up on different buses/routes.

5:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 5:08 Are you also suggesting that it was manipulated for busses that went to schools other than #4?

5:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like a one in a million type of coincidence. It was clearly orchestrated deliberately so that none of the public pre-k children would be on a bus without a matron.

And it's very typical of the attitude toward spending that has pervaded the district for many years. Not unlike many bodies of government, our district has been operated by individuals without any concern for the taxpayers. If they thought they could get away with it, then spend they would. And they obviously got away with this expenditure as well.

5:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 5:08 Are you also suggesting that it was manipulated for busses that went to schools other than #4?

Were there pre-k children on busses going to any schools other than #4 last year?

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if the "manipulation" of the IEP theory were true, it still would not have cost extra money, as you stated.

Why is free pre-k busing to private schools so important anyway? Personally, I paid for the bus to No. 4 school when it was not available. Carpooling was another option.

It was stated many times that if the costs were contained (meaning the true cost could be determined and capped somewhat), and if it included ALL private schools, it would not have been such a bad idea.

No one wants you to feel you cannot have something you would like to have. That was never our intention.

The problem, as stated over and over and over and over,
was

after 5 years of austerity, not one proposal was made for the betterment of the public schools and the kids that attend the schools (WISH YOUR KIDS COULD ATTEND TOO, REALLY DO)

That was the problem. Perhaps in the future, when all is settled and the PUBLIC school Board is reminded of its duties, other private school items can be looked into, within reason and within the confines of Education Law.

For now, maybe the pre-k busing cost can be worked into yeshiva tuitions (it should not be that expensive).

We can discuss other non-mandated wants/needs for the private schools, once all is in place for the public schools.

I want to add that if ALL private schools were entitled to open ended perks, we would not have enough money to run an excellent PUBLIC schools system.

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anon 5:28: Then why did Sussman win the election? He has been on the board for years and is one of the spenders you are referring to. Did he win simply because his opponent sympathized with public school parents?

5:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I haven't been following the board for that long but for the last few years, I've only seen Dr. Sussman very critical of excessive spending.

6:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if the "manipulation" of the IEP theory were true, it still would not have cost extra money, as you stated.

How do you figure?

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course it cost extra money. If the IEP children requiring matrons were not all placed on separate buses, then fewer matrons would need to be on the payroll.

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 5:31: That's because he is NOW catering to the people that elected him. I am here for 20 years and he is part of the old regime. HE WAS A SPENDER and the only reason why he was elected was because he was perceived as siding with private school parents. He was seen as the lesser of two evils. I can't understand why he has not been held accountable.

6:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was stated many times that if the costs were contained (meaning the true cost could be determined and capped somewhat), and if it included ALL private schools, it would not have been such a bad idea.

Are you for real?

How could the costs be contained if they included all private schools?

Let's assume that each bus costs $75k. How can 1 child going to a pre-k program in long beach be bussed without an additional cost of $75k. Multiply that by 10 for the 15-20 children who may have been excluded. Are you suggesting that the district should have spent an additional $750k for 15-20 children and at the same time figure out a way to "contain the costs"?

6:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 5:31: That's because he is NOW catering to the people that elected him....HE WAS A SPENDER and the only reason why he was elected was because he was perceived as siding with private school parents.

Whether or not he was a "SPENDER" is irrelevant if not currently a "SPENDER". And if he is only perceived as siding with private school parents, then what are you griping about? You should be more than happy with him.

7:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 6:30...it seems you may be correct in your suggestion that the district spend another $750,000.00 on another 15 - 20 children, and allof a sudden a Library next door might have to pay $880,000.00 dollars for some sort of back pay on some Easement????..it amazes me how the 2 numbers are so close.....?

8:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

huh?

8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Way to get along, people.

8:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Whether or not [Dr. Sussman] was a "SPENDER" is irrelevant if not currently a "SPENDER""

Why is it that if Dr. Sussman was a spender in the past, it is no longer relevant to a conversation, but it is appropriate to use the past spender argument against past "public School" boards?

9:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everything is open to discussion, but if you question why so many people vote for him now ...

9:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ref 6:30 Anon

The whole reasoning behind my comment is that it is NOT realistic to contain costs for pre-k busing for private schools.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to contain costs when the number of schools is so variable. The expense will only rise and rise and rise, as happened even before busing began. On June 19th the cost went up by more than 50% over the original estimate. And that still did not include any matrons.

If, for example we knew there were only a handful of private pre-k's that district 15 residents patronized, and we knew that number was constant (which is already an impossibility), and we knew that the cost was in the same cost range of #4 busing, and if all else was done for the public schools, it might not have gone over as badly as it did.

In March, I asked Asher how we could nickel and dime the emergency phone expense, and the capital repairs, but how there is no problem with the pre-k bus expense. You had to be there to see his reaction.

He really should have listened to everyone's concerns and at least tried to get more than just a consensus from the private school community. Alloting over $800k and growing for that purpose is not responsible spending.

It is such a shame things went the way they did.

Still, I said many times, I wish our kids could attend the same schools. What a difference it would make.

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would you consider enrolling your children in private school?

10:19 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

Unhelpful comment #1

anonymous said...
Way to get along, people.

8:30 PM


Unhelpful comment #2

anonymous said...
Would you consider enrolling your children in private school?

10:19 PM


If you have nothing helpful to write, it may be best to keep it yourself. Why change the tone of what is clearly an intelligent conversation between people with different opinions and perspectives?

12:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can't cap pre-k bussing any more than capping regular bussing for private school students, because the numbers keep going up. The only thing you can assure is that the public school enrollment is slated to drop by 2-3% over the next three years (read district's goals and assumptions).

7:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

remember what assume stands for..

and remember with 1 out of 150 with autism..
last year the number was 1 out of 166
in less than a year, it went from 166 to 150.
The number of special ed students
is increasing..
bring students from other districts...
they pay around $60,000 a student, OT,PT, speech services are another fee.

8:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:25
for some reason you are stuck on the special ed students of #4 school sharing matrons, with regular ed students.
if this helps you last year
fact: at least 4 special ed students were on one bus sharing a matron.
Think...Safety.
Big district.
Not always possible to share matrons, depends where the students live.

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fact: the district arranged for a matron on every bus transporting pre-k children.

11:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know what, as commendable as the focus of this post is, after reading all of the posts of both sides of this community it is plainly clear that there will never be a happy medium. Lawsuits, anti-Semitic feelings and callous remarks will prevail throughout this community. We have no hope here, so we might as well begin the physical altercations to see who will take over the area and before I get attacked, feel free to show me one reason to hold out any hope for us?

11:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Fact: the district arranged for a matron on every bus transporting pre-k children"

So I guess you work for the transportation office and can prove this right? Or are you simply repeating the same tired old unsubstantiated lines from above posts?

11:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes

12:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, at least you admit that all you are doing is repeating old unsubstantiated lines...

1:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I still don't understand why you are upset that the district did the right thing by providing matrons on all busses?
We demanded them for the private schools pre K bussing.
Oh wait, were you one of the private school parents telling us to shut up, it wasn't necessary???
No, no, that was the board, soooo
are you related to any of them??

3:25 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"You know what, as commendable as the focus of this post is, after reading all of the posts of both sides of this community it is plainly clear that there will never be a happy medium. Lawsuits, anti-Semitic feelings and callous remarks will prevail throughout this community. We have no hope here, so we might as well begin the physical altercations to see who will take over the area and before I get attacked, feel free to show me one reason to hold out any hope for us?"

BALONEY! Things get done when people care enough to try. I'm sure more than enough do and will make a significant progress provided they can avoid being overwhelmed by the smattering of self-interested agitators who poison the air.

3:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So does anyone know what the current school board's plans are to help the public school students?

Not the moving them around, putting grades together,...I have heard those ideas.
Those ideas are meant to help the district.
I mean the ideas that are meant for the students, the type of help that will help them to read, write, add.
And to private school parents
how do you plan on helping the public school students?

9:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Orthomom. Lord knows we do not need more division and anger.

If the people who elected this board encourage them to repair our buildings and tracks/fields (hint, the vote in January) and STOP closing our schools, since the architect's report is contrary to the "half full building" bunk, then it is possible to get along again.

Peace begins with every one of us.

10:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been perephially around orthodox circles where the things they say about secular jews and gentiles aren't any better. tractate avoda zorah (strange worship) in the talmud is particularlly a hate book (im jewish so don't try calling me antisemetic)

11:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

is there really a seperate vote planned for Jan. 08??
A cost of at least $30,000 dollars..

12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If there is still any doubt in your mind about the legality of pre-k bussing and what this Board is doing with our tax dollars, take a look at the court transcript posted on that other blog.

3:07 PM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

If this guy JC shows up at your sukkah, ask him for his credentials, and if he can't turn water into wine or walk on water, call the cops ;-)

8:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that's a new milestone for OM

8:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom - I could choose not to read your blog, and I have been a less frequent reader, because your constant school advocacy posts are just boring. Get a job.

5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What time is your bus coming on monday? lol lmao

6:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Private School resident who is appalled by all of this hate that seems to be growing against Orthodox Jews in the Five Towns. I ride the Railroad to work and have heard people talking about websites in the Middle East that have been on this site;Orthomom and have access to The Jewish Star and a Web Cam suspended from a nearby house showing Anti Semitic comments from Orthodox Jews about others???...can anyone explain? I know couples considering a move out of here after only being here 2 or 3 years. They mentioned about a new sect of Orthodox coming in from out of town who are admitting that they will run the neighborhood down hoping people will leave so " We can do our thing " here as quoted..

6:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have heard about "Orthomom" on the railroad too, as well as families moving out and even the Jew vs. Jew bit. When frum men and women talk about it on the train, there is a problem.

A stronger faction is moving in -- some are here already.

7:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW Sounds like the 70's when people would run out of town when a black family moved in. Now you have Jews running from Jews the world really must be coming to an end!!

8:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Certainly not our kids, who seem to be losing services in one retaliatory strike after another."

enough of this already! district employees are not being vengeful against Orthodox children out of anger. such behavior is so immoral, I cannot believe that you, and many others, continue to believe that district employees gain some sort of satisfaction from denying services to children that, in your opinion, they know deep down are deserving of such services. You are preaching "can't we all get along", a la Rodney King, but make ignorant (yes, it's a strong choice of words, but nonetheless accurate) comments flippantly about district employees.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

services are based on a need, IF you score "LOW" enough you get services.
Services can be compared to a mortgage.
You want a three million dollar mortgage,
ok, you can only get a one million dollar mortgage,
no matter how you say unfair, I NEED IT< MUST HAVE IT, you don't get it, same as services. Yes it is that simple.
Again the laws must be followed, here as well as across the country.

8:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Private School resident who is appalled by all of this hate that seems to be growing against Orthodox Jews in the Five Towns. I ride the Railroad to work and have heard people talking about websites in the Middle East that have been on this site;Orthomom and have access to The Jewish Star and a Web Cam suspended from a nearby house showing Anti Semitic comments from Orthodox Jews about others???...can anyone explain? I know couples considering a move out of here after only being here 2 or 3 years. They mentioned about a new sect of Orthodox coming in from out of town who are admitting that they will run the neighborhood down hoping people will leave so " We can do our thing " here as quoted..

6:32 PM


That's very funny - If you're trying to make belive you're a yeshiva parent, you probably should've checked the jewish calendar before you posted on the holiday.

9:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All yeshivas have strictly observant families in it? That's news to me! You'd be surprised!

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe not, but all of these blogs have commenters trying to make believe they are someone who they are not.

11:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:51pm
that goes both ways.

9:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 9:01pm...all laws are made to be broken. What goes on inside my house with my children and husband are what makes up my happiness. Yes, Indeed I am Orthodox and own a Calandar and I am aware of my jewish laws ( i belong to a shul in Cedarhurst)...No,I do not follow everything, so yes a law may have been broken when I used my computer when I should not have. I would say 20% of our community does things like that. Laws are made to be broken, otherwise they would not be called Laws...Im sure whoever you are that responded has broken a law or 2....please , we are human...thats why I am told they have placed erasers on Pencils, because people do make mistakes:)..G-d Bless:)

6:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uhuh.

That's ok, 6:32 was before sundown, but I guess you wouldn't know that.

Interesting statement about "20% of our community" - how did you arrive at that figure?

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"but I guess you wouldn't know that"

way to be obnoxious

7:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thats not a bad idea...after getting almost 817 people together the other night, selling our houses to Palestanians might be the smoothest approach...do you know where most of them have been looking...?...answer on 6-890Tikrit.

8:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The special education services of this district is being depleted by the private schools. Why is this? Why is it that the orthodox community is so overwhelmed with "special problems"? Can anyone give a logical answer to this phenomenon?

11:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I say, lets take in a Palestine boarder who hasnt had the right to go to school or work and let them have a opinion on the workings of this community.

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