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Thursday, June 12, 2008

Eruv Enmity - Take II

This article, about the efforts on the part of a Hamptons Orthodox community to build an eruv, is outrageous. It has a lot in common with a similarly offensive story I posted about some time ago that shows a proposal for an eruv eliciting wild overreaction and disinformation regarding its impacts and properties. Some choice bits from a story about this year's version of the eruv battle - over a proposal to install one in Westhampton Beach:
The negative e-mails started soon after word spread that the Hampton Synagogue was asking the tony Village of Westhampton Beach for a proclamation permitting it to erect an eruv, or symbolic boundary, around the synagogue.

It would, one e-mail said, “allow the Jewish people to pass through people’s property on their way to temple. ... It is the beginning of a ‘push’ by the rabbi to create another Tenafly or Lawrence [both have large concentrations of Orthodox Jews]. Shopkeepers have already been asked rather strongly to please close their stores on Saturday.”

Another claimed that the “natural outcome of a designated area would alter the real estate complexion and property values within the area. ... What is to stop the Orthodox from demanding that Christians, within the eruv, not put up say Christmas ornamentation on their properties within the eruv?”

There were also those who insisted that “people would not be able to drive cars in the eruv ... and that [Jews] don’t like to walk on sidewalks within the eruv because of the cracks in the sidewalk,” said Clint Greenbaum, a member of the synagogue’s eruv committee.
"Allow Jewish people to pass through people's property on their way to temple"? Stopping Christians from putting up Christmas ornamentation on their properties within the boundaries of the eruv? Where do people come up with these unfounded fears? And of course, no article about the encroachment of the Orthodox into a community would be complete without vague, unproven allegations of "Shopkeepers have already been asked rather strongly to please close their stores on Saturday" (previous versions of this canard here). While an eruv doesn't have any of the magical properties its opponents seem to ascribe to it, it does seem to have an almost magical ability to make reasonable people lose their rationality completely.

Oh, and who can ignore this particular tidbit, a fun little dig at our own South Shore community of Lawrence by a member of the Westhampton Beach eruv committee:
Joel Cohen, a member of the synagogue’s eruv committee, said he agrees that withdrawing the request was a prudent step.

“When a segment of a greater community feels threatened by an ethnic or racial group, the best way to gain acceptance is to explain it so there is no fear,” he said. “Shoving it down one’s throat leads to enmity. ... There is no intention by the rabbi to create a shtetl or another Lawrence.”
Sweet.

172 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting, since the Rabbi in question has always embraced inclusion and diversity.

10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why are you so offended??? is it not true that some non jews or not practicing jews have been harrased in the Five Towns by people who will not shop in their stores if they are open on Shabbat , or when people walk in the middle of the street without regard for the drivers??? I am sure this is a minority and obviously should not stigmatize the whole community ,but if others see this and sit by and do nothing.......

10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom should re-name this blog as "Bitch and Moan".

Everything so far has been nothing but negative and "poor me". Get off of it already and write about positive things for once.

10:29 AM  
OpenID thegameiam said...

This is sadly not an uncommon story.

Eruv politics get pretty thorny, and it seems to bring up every problem everyone has ever had with the Orthodox community. Anon 10:24 does have a point - there are many folks who self-identify as Orthodox who are not giving the non-Orthodox a good impression. Perhaps we can take from that a reminder that the challenge in being the light unto nations is that the nations will see what we're doing; as we're watched, we need to conduct ourselves with the greatest amount of derekh eretz.

Anon 10:29, if you feel that this is negative, perhaps you should write something positive instead?

11:12 AM  
Blogger Leora said...

Anon 10:29's comment bothered me. Orthomom, please continue to write about what you need to write about. Thank you.

11:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

its hilarious that om can disappear for months and yet her trolls pop right back up with zero contributions as if they have been laying in wait. How exactly is this post a "poor me" post?

But to address the topic at hand, people wouldnt be any less upset if a neighborhood would suddenly be overrun with any new ethnicity or religious group. Thats how people tend to be. Suspicious of anything new.

11:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure why anyone would find these e-mails surprising. Just because bigotry, in this case anti-Semitism, is not sanctioned by the government doesn't mean it is not lurking just beneath the surface.
It is sad that in the 21 century USA people can't get over the old hatred. Shame on us as a society!

2:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fuck she resumed writing. I'm so pissed this just ruined my day week and month.

2:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon @ 2:34 is now gonna buy a place in the Hamptons so (s)he can bitch and moan there also.

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous said...
Fuck she resumed writing. I'm so pissed this just ruined my day week and month.

2:34 PM

Once again, a sorry statement on our society.

5:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous said...
Fuck she resumed writing. I'm so pissed this just ruined my day week and month.


I have such a great solution for you that might help your upcoming days, week and month: don't visit this blog. It's like being angry that crappy restaraunts actually dare exist in the mall food court. Unless you eat there again and again despite them being lousy (your own stupidity). Or being mad that bad movies run in theaters or even on television. STOP WATCHING.

7:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like this is more of a Long Island problem then an eruv problem. Our home community put up an eruv with no peep of controversy and no big public mumblings. Our winter community did the same and there was no resistance, no bad mouthing. Would seem that the anti-eruv feeling is representing something else.

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 1:47:
If you look back, there have been eric battles in communities ranging from tenafly, nj to California. So I think your community must just be very civilized and tolerant.

5:34 PM  
Blogger MDmom said...

we had a similar problem in our former community in nj (not tenafly). we called a community meeting with our rabbi, the eruv committee, the experienced phone company (they owned the poles) rep who dealt with this before to explain what exactly we were doing, answer any questions, dispell myths and put the crazy rumors down. the meeting was sro and in the end our eruv went up. and once that happened and everyone saw that the eruv did not infringe one iota on anyone else's civil liberties, the incident was never mentioned again. people have to talk to one another.

3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wondering, have some of you bloggers heard of spellcheck? I mean it's embarrassing to read some of the posts.

1:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any idea on who will be running the VAAD while its adminstrator is away this summer??

1:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

on the issue of the VAAD....did anyone out there hear about the situation at GG involving the mouse droppings? how come i never see anymore posts on this subject? is orthomom also an owner??

8:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mouse droppings? i also hear that they have toilet paper in the bathroom. what does mouse dropping have to do with the vaad. Health Dept maybe, not vaad

4:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

of course it has to do with the vaad.. they are aleays supposed to be looking out for health issues that affect kashruth...do you really believe the mice were circumcised and orthodox? the vaad checks for bugs and droppings in all the product areas.. if not, they are not doing the job that they are amply paid for...

4:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Talking of GG, anyone hear about the VAAD member that is also an owner at GG ?

11:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mouse dropping wre found in the meat? you have to be specfic. most supermarkets have rodents (i worked in the industry). Were the mpsue dropping in the work area or in the garbage area??

6:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the mouse droppings were found on a bobka from the bakery at GG. the health department was notified.

IN ADDITION..WHO CARES IF THEY WERE IN THE MEAT OR AROUND A WORK AREA???? THEY ARE STILL PRESENT IN THE STORE AND OBVIOUSLY NOT EXTERMINATED FREQUENTLY ENOUGH..

You are correct that most food establishments have mice or cockroaches...the difference is when the owners spend the bucks to exterminate 2x a week or 2x a year.. also.. having employees frequently check and clean is also the way to go..

Cleanliness and organization seem to be non-existent since the new owners took over...I , do, however, like their 10% percent discount for school staffers.

9:27 AM  
Anonymous accidentalblogger said...

Hilarious. How we got from antisemitism to mouse droppings is quite entertaining. Like broken telephone but not really. More like OM readers who have been longing for a chance to vent for months and now that you're back, they'll publish their gripe whether or not it has anything to do with anything. Speaking of which, I think the new Gourmet Glatt is the heaven on earth. If they sold beds I'd move in with my whipped creamed iced latte in one hand, some spicy tuna in the other, a copy of the FTJT and Carlos in aisle 3 giving me an unsolicited back rub. What were we talking about again . . .

3:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how funny coming from a frum woman..."an unsolicited back rub" how inappropriate... even in jest...but, then again, so typical of the hypocritical five towner.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:21 PM: You're right about the hypocrisy.

Three frum women at Cedarhurst Park yesterday with 14 children altogether. They were so busy trying to keep their children from playing with the non-orthodox children, they lost two of them!

Twenty minutes later, the cops found the kids on Central Avenue. They weren't together either.

If these women weren't so busy with small things in life, they could have avoided a serious problem. One cop was even contemplating charges against one of the women because she was so stupid!

So ladies and gentlemen, practice what you preach. And this goes for all parents, regardless of religion.

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It really doesn't matter if the people fight it or not we all know that in the long run after spending thousands of dollars fighting it you ortho scum will as usual get your way and the eruv will go up. The westhampton people should just save their money or better yet send it to Hamas!!

7:21 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

How sad that there are no more Meyer Lanskys out there. He would make a short work of this 7:21 pm Hamas lover.

12:26 AM  
Blogger zalel said...

Sorry to hear that you have encountered racial panic there, about establishing an eruv. As far as I know, here in Cambridge Mass, where I am an active eruvian, there weren't any community problems when we proposed an eruv. It ended up taking ten years, but I'm pretty sure that it was just the myriad practical matters and permissions which ate all that time.

I hope that you will succeed without too much acrimony. I am not Ortho, but I'm still glad that we have an eruv, since it enlarges and broadens the local Jewish community in a variety of positive ways.

7:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks to people like LG and OM, the pictures painted of this community has done nothing but magnify the division of this community.

This is definitely a bitch and moan blog. So is LG's paper. The "poor me" attitude is heard and felt all over the country, and in other countries as well.

Move on and be positive. Drop all the negativity and try to reach out to others in hopes of bringing this community together - and publicize it!

Hearing the names "Monsey, Lakewood, Lawrence" all bunched together does not draw a picture of unity and friendliness.

7:59 AM  
Anonymous The Hedyot said...

I wonder if some of the misconceptions non-Jews have about eruvs comes from their understanding of the legal consequence of an eruv. An eruv is essentially meant to turn a public area (or numerous smaller private ones) into a legally designated private one. So if you told an averge joe that his private property now is part of a wider jewish communal private property, he might understandably think all sorts of things are permitted.

Just a thought.

3:27 PM  
Blogger David said...

OM- Welcome back! Please write more!!

4:30 PM  
Anonymous accidentalblogger said...

anon 5:12 - that was a joke, moron. get a life. and stop ogling the "hypocritical" five towns women.

As for anon 6:12 - seriously get a life. are you that resentful of the religious presence in the cedarhurst park that you've actually transferred your feelings of anxiety and inferiority to your kids? we don't mind our kids playing with yours. just as long as you bathe them before they use the new sprinklers our tax dollars paid for . . .

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lawrence used to be a great place to live...now it is the worst...The way the Orthodox operate is enough to make an anti-semite out of a Jew.

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:26 PM, practice what you preach.

5:29 PM, I agree with you. I'm sometimes embarrassed to say I am Jewish from the Five Towns because of the nasty picture that has been painted.

9:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just got back on my computer and read some of the posts about mouse droppings at GG. As I am the one who discovered the droppings on my chocolate babka, I do not find the levity about the situation amusing! I have already spoken to the authorities-hopefully they will get them to clean up the place. It may be busier-but filthier would be a better description. I am disgusted!

11:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the earlier post...you are one of the reasons that jews are disliked so much in this area..non orthos look at you and your ilk and want better for their children.

to the mouse poster... i agree that the new owners do not take care of the store the way the original ones did. a recent visit tells me that i will only buy canned goods there. does anyone know when the new store near brachs will be opening?

12:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

another thought on accidentalblogger..do you really think that you are the only family paying taxes here in town?? it is probably the non-jew or the non- ortho that is bearing the financial burden. how many of your ortho neighbors actually pay their taxes? how many are claiming their homes as religious entities? check out the public records. how many are ripping off the food stamp program?? i have seen mercedes driving ortho-moms using food stamps..talk about working the system.

1:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oy...all of orthomoms trolls are back. Can someone make an anti-ortho blog just so we can get rid of these people with their tall tales?

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will most of their claims are absurd there is one that has some truth to it; not having to do with an eruv, but with an ortho jewish community.

I grew up in the Five Towns and everytime I come back it drives me crazy to see people walking in the middle of the street like they own the place. This is not a minority of the people, I would say definitley a majority taking up the middle of the street so any one driving has to play what I like to call "Jew Slalom." Its amazing people don't get hit.

Can someone please explain to me the thiking that leads to orthos doing this? I think it is completely wrong and a HUGE chilul hashem.

5:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:26 post: why would you question the right of the ortho families to walk in the middle of the streets that they own and pay taxes for? of course it is presumptive on their part, but what else is new in the five towns?

6:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how about it is dangerous for a start?

12:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While it is wrong and dangerous to walk in the middle of the street, there are many street without sidewalks, and many with broken sidewalks, so walking on the street is a necessary.

7:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, they have the right to walk in the street that they pay taxes for. And drivers have a right to drive in the street that they pay taxes for. I live in Westchester, in a neighborhood without sidewalks. I have trained my kids to walk on the side of the road, both for consideration of others and for personal safety. It's called sharing.

8:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Addendum to 5:26:

Just to add to my post from 5:26 and to answer 7:32, walking on the street is not a necessity especially the area I am talking about (which is near of one of the big ortho synogauges). All of the streets have sidewalks and they are not broken.

Again, why do you walk in the middle of the street? I am so embarrased every time someone has to slow down or swerve to avoid a huge group of ortho jews. Why can't orthos realize they are not the only ones living in the area and show some respect for the other residents.

Some people might say that there is some anti-semitic or bigoted agenda in these complaints from the non-orthodox. Even if this is the case, which I don't beleive it is, why give them ammunition?

All I am saying is to be respectful and show some consideration for your non-orthodox neighbors. We all should love your neighbor as you love yourself. Please put yourself in their shoes and be mindful of your actions.

Maybe then everyone can live in a community where everyone gets along. This should apply to everything you do, not just walking in the middle of the street.

Maybe I should become a pulpit rabbi? :)

10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:27 AM: Amen!

Even with sidewalks in great shape, those who decide to walk 5 or more abreast in the roadway is inconsiderate, no matter WHO is doing it.

Respect goes both ways. And it goes a loooooooong way to help heal this community.

11:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anon 10:27
amen.. but who do you think creates the atmosphere of privilege that many orthos in town seem to subscribe to? I, personally, have heard our local rabbonim speak negatively about the non-orthos in town. so, if the pulpit rabbonim seem to feel they are owed....why wouldnt the congregation feel the same way? of course, there are very devout, respectful people in my town...however, they are few and far between... go to brach's eruv shabbos and see the hostility and nastiness among our own.. see them honk at old women with canes crossing the street too slowly for their SUVs to proceed... see them cut people on line and create unnecessary waits at the register while they give commands to their maids... as a mental health professional, I sometimes just observe human nature and feel disgusted by some of my neighbors. If you dont see what i see,,then maybe you are guilty of the same behavior....

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's all about the nasty feeling of entitlement. you see alot of that in the 5 towns area. also that feeling that there is one set of rules for me and another set for you (the generic you inferred here).

2:56 PM  
Blogger buzzee said...

Its me, 5:26 and 10:27.

Thanks for the amens.

To 11:24: Could not agree with you more, the entire 5 towns community, that is ortho, reform, convervative, any other jewish denomination and non-jews, needs to build a huge campfire in Cedarhurst park and sit around it singing kumbaya. I am getting tears just thinking about it.

To 2:11, the mental health professional: Just to give you a bit of my background, I grew up in the 5 towns and was completely disgusted about what I saw go on around me (including your description of brach's on a friday, but I am not that young so replace brachs with central avenue or supersol). I am no fan of this behavior and I am disgusted with the way some orthodox jews behave so much so that in college I wore a baseball hat every day so I was not identified with the ortho community. My non-jewish and non-ortho friends were always shocked to find out I was observant. So yes, I do see what you see and as a whole I think the ortho community needs to change. But please, don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good that goes on in the community that unfortunatley gets brushed aside with the public spectacles we are describing.


As you can see I have some major issues with the ortho community and don't like to identify with them (I consider myself observant, not orthodox), but I don't think generalizing about the rabbis of the commuity is accurate. As a matter of fact when some obscure organization (I think it was the Union of Ortho Rabbis, or something like that) said that non-ortho jews are not jews at all, Rabbi Billet scolded them in his speech that saturday. So I don't think it is the rabbis, but a home-brewed sense of entitlement that leads to walking 5 abreast in the street on sabbath.

5:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We should all lead by example. I have won many hearts over with niceness and civility. I forged many great relationships with people in the Five Towns based on my moral character and my outward sense of community, compassion and thoughtfulness toward others.

We must mind our midos. Though it is hard, and the Five Towns has had a rich history of bringing out the arrogance of people (remember the WASPs of the 1950's-1960's when a Jew wasn't allowed into the Rockaway Hunt Club and NONE lived on Ocean Avenue?).

Let us remove the arrogant attitude.

6:02 PM  
Anonymous pam greenbaum said...

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/20345/Rockland+County+Judge:+Journal+News+Web+Site+Must+Indentify+Anonymous+Posters+.html

Watch it!

1:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please sign a petition to get OM to permanently shut herself down at http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com

2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Pam,

Nice of you to make an appearance here. Although your link doesnt work. Can you please repost?

Thanks.

3:24 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

To Anonymous 2:31 PM, if you don't like the blog, don't participate.

3:50 PM  
Anonymous David L. said...

Really, I don't understand what the issue is here. In the Chicago area we have at least six eruvim up in various neighborhoods, and none of these projects ever generated this kind of backlash. I would venture to say that most non-Jews/non-Orthodox Jews have no cognizance that these eruvim are in place in their communities.

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the issue is not the eruv itself..you are correct in stating that most eruvs are not even recognized as such by the general population of the town. the real issue is the assumption that we jews can do whatever we want....take over streets, sidewalks, stores, schools etc. When you look at an area such as the five towns with its Kosher Nostra and its demands on shopkeepers and neighbors, is it any wonder that the general population fears our takeover???

11:16 AM  
Blogger buzzee said...

Well said 11:16. I agree with you whole heartidly.

It is a good thing to put yourself in their shoes and think about the changes an influx of orthos bring about to a community. Whether these changes are good (e.g., rise in home values with the "Jew Tax") or bad (e.g., walking in the middle of the street on sabbath, school board takeovers, kosher mafia, asking Victorias Secret to change their window displays, etc.) they are changes and can lead to animosity with the long time residents.

An eruv symbolizes a growing orthodox population and along with that comes the home-brewed entitlement that the 5 towns sees on a daily basis. I don't blame Westhampton Beach at all. The anti-eruv advertising "We don't want to become another Lawrence" is very effective. I am observant and hell, you wouldnt catch me living in lawrence.

4:37 PM  
Anonymous Rabbi Neal Wendrow said...

Brethren,

Why not put up the greatest Eruv in the Universe?

The Eruv that forever encloses Hashem in your heart!

That Eruv is a lifetime relationship with Hashem through His Son Yeshua, our Lord Jesus Christ!

To find out more call 1-888-Needhim!

10:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have feelings (good or bad) about orthomom? Please feel to express them at http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com.

11:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This argument of pro eruv v. anti eruv is stale. Been hearing it for the past 25 years here in the 5 towns and elsewhere.

Facts: Schneier does not need permission from the town to put an eruv on private property (if the private owner consents). He wnet to the village as a friend asking that they "recognize" his eruv. He did not need to. If push comes to shove, he will go to court and probably win.

These arguments that it changes the the community, that store keepers are being asked to close is all smoke. Ask Toddy's if he regrets closing on Saturday. Ask the new millionaire former 5-towners if they are sorry that they made millions on their property sales.

I like he** would not want to live in the Brooklyn community where even groups of "orthos" cant get along.

11:18 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

With "friends" like "rabbi" neal wendrow, who needs enemies. At least Hitler wanted just our lives. These JFJ bastards want our souls.

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:18 AM: It doesn't float in the Hamptons like it does in Lawrence or Brooklyn.

The Hamptons is more seasonal. After October, the population dwindles to about 1/4 the summer population.

Perhaps the board will call for a vote in November or December, when the summer crowd is long gone.

8:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Got gossip about Orthomom? Visit http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com.

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 11:16 ..ask the former owners of GG how it felt to be run out of town.ask the bagel island former owners how they like losing their livelihood.,, ask all the other businesses that were "shaken down" by the vaad... ask the department of justice. i hear that two of the former GG owners were seen outside the DOJ several months ago. could it be that the government is finally narrowing its RICO search to our town??

9:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone else notice that "shtetl" rhymes with "ghetto"?

10:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Shtetl rhymes with ghetto" only on the orthomom blog. Check out Endoforthomom.blogspot.com

6:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

maybe if you all took a dose of jesus, and borught lawrence back to how it should be, none of this would be as bad

10:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:44 PM
Yes, let's all join hands and run, not walk, to the nearest church.

3:03 PM  
Blogger bernard n. shull said...

hi mate, this is the canadin pharmacy you asked me about: the link

1:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i wish this blog could just stay somewhat on target. or at least within a jewish text.

4:55 PM  
Blogger SJ said...

the orthodox have absolutely no business asking nonorthodox store owners to close on saturday.

this is the USA, not Iran.

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the orthodox have been allowed to run rampant in the five towns and surrounding area for years... in the five towns, they are not in america; they are in a shtetel...unfortunately, the rabbonim control their minds and actions against all responsible thinking..it is more a cult like environment than a religion. I recall listening to a conversation where a child went to a neighbors home and said to the neighbor innocently,,mommy told me you cant live here because you are not jewish. this was said to an elderly woman who offered the child a smile and an ear.
Does anyone recall the GG and bagel island and shula's fiasco with the Kosher Nostra ( VAAD )..tald about shakedowns and extortion like tactics.. As an ortho in town, I was appalled at what was done....as a human being I felt even worse. It is no wonder the rest of the world despises us so. I have often said to my ortho hubby and ortho kids that we are our own worst enemy..

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:52 AM: I agree with you wholeheartedly. Those who TRULY practice a religion gets along with their neighbors and strangers and treats them as one of their own. BUT NOT IN THE FIVE TOWNS!

And cell phones while driving. Why the heck do all these people have to drive and use their cell phones? Last week I was almost in two accidents because of women using their cell phones. They had their kids in the car and they were both Orthodox. The men are no better either. Just watch Rockaway Turnpike in the morning or getting in/out of Dunkin' Donuts and you'll see what I mean.

They should post a cop by the driveway to ticket all who are using their cell phones while driving. And we're not talking about hands-free devices either.

11:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY MICHAEL

For every one Meyer Lansky there were 6 million or more afraid to fight and being a non ortho he would still be an outcast in the 5 towns. But i am sure the local kosher kkk could use him for their dirty work.

8:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY MICHAEL

One other thing YOU HAVE NO SOULS !!

8:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the kosher KKK is on vacation. who is watching the five towns stores now? the local yeshiva boys that are barely 18 years old.. check it out... do you think the vaad is paying them minimum wage or the equivalent of rabbi eisen's 200,000 plus income... by the way..has anyone found out if the Vaad is legit anyway? the DOJ/IRS seems to think that this is important enough to look into themselves... remember, al capone was prosecuted on tax evasion,,,not the hundreds of murders he committed.. it took the doj and irs two years to uncover the problems with alle processing..the vaad is next..

9:52 PM  
Blogger SJ said...

everyone, read my blog. XD

5:24 AM  
Blogger SJ said...

everyone, read my blog. XD

5:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess OM has nothing to bitch and moan about lately OR she's up at White Lake. Boy, talking about a dirty supermarket! They have an Orthodox run supermarket in White Lake (Sullivan County) on 17B that would make your head spin. It's the dirtiest thing you've ever been into.

Across the street is a large bungalow colony with Chassidic families. It is so sad that they have to take their lives in their hands by shopping in such filth. The place makes Super Sol look like it's scrubbed clean!

4:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it is amazing how it doesnt matter where the shop is.. if it is owned by orthos it is going to be the filthiest store in town.. my friends in manalapan and lakewood tell me the same thing about the kosher stores there...disgustingly filthy... is it one of the criteria of kashruth? sure seems that way... maybe GG was too "clean" for the vaad, if you get my drift.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I wouldn't paint the whole canvas the same color, but it appears to be that way in some supermarkets and I don't know why. Perhaps the high price of dealing with the Kosher Nostra leaves little room to hire extras for cleanliness purposes.

I do have to say the Brach's produce area is very clean and they have excellent produce at excellent prices. However, the deli department's cold cuts don't look very palatable. They don't wrap the meats properly and the trays they lay on are very dirty.

10:34 PM  
Blogger SJ said...

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10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to sj...what are you talking about?????

12:30 PM  
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1:14 PM  
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1:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have feelings (good or bad) about orthomom? Please feel to express them at http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com.

2:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NEWS FLASH!!!!
Perhap's after now close to two years after the murder of GG, a family owned business that help establish this community perhaps we should now turn toward Rubashskin and the business practices and the FACT the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has an ongoing investigation of the alleged activites of controlling pricing and crimmal behavior within our wonderful "frum only" membership. I personally can't wait to see the New York Times expose not only the tricky,cheating and stealing that one of your empowered "frum only" members as committed. I pray to live to see the day that the records of Rubashskin are exposed and see how many wonderful Rabbi's are on the payroll in "no show" jobs including Mr. Wonderful himself " Rabbi Yosef Eisen" In life one sometimes must have patience to see that justice is served,I personally especially since Rabbi Eisen started his demon like attacks against GG with the the spear that Rubashskin,though having 3 Supervisions sent in non-chometz, but NOT PASSOVER products into GG during Pesach ofwhich were recieved by the VAAD's own Mashiglach and the owner's were blamed for until a RECORDING, one of many that proved EISEN wrong.I find it extremely suspect after his efforts failed and he looked like a fool after Mark Bolender exposed the truth that he had to find anything,even a chicken, a kosher chicken,a mystery chicken, a chicken which never surfaced,a alleged customer who purchased this never appeared to face questions or produced a reciept?,for what? to re establish his character. May Hashem help us to forgive, but not forget the evil one's, even if they hide behind a black hat.Frum and crook doesn't equal Non-Frum and honest.THIS WAS JUST ONE BIG COVER UP AND SOMEONE GOT PAID MONEY TO PUT GOURMET GLATT OUT- I leave the rest to your thinking of who that may be and who paid for this to happen?, but one thing for sure he,they, must have been "Frum" because this puts them at level above approach. Shame on Orthomom if this is deleted,afterall you do believe in freedom of press.Perhaps this author will be quoted in the New York Times in the future.When Rubashskins go to jail and our acts of kindest wanting to send kosher food, please make sure it is under the Vaad of the Five Towns.

12:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the previous commenter aware that his run on sentences are painful to read and go on multiple tangents to the point of being unintelligible. I just hope that the writing style was not learned in the lawrence public school system.

4:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, actually in Yeshiva

7:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

read all about it in my forthcoming book..."THE HYPOCRISY OF ORTHODOXY" or "THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE KOSHER NOSTRA".. the earlier post ( 12:53 )may be ranting somewhat but he/she will be interviewed for the book..rabbi eisen and his cronies should be worried as their illegal and highly unethical activities have been supplied to the department of justice as part of an ongoing investigation. so to the post of 12:53 pm: have faith, my friend. what goes around comes around....

8:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's be clear that the owners of GG (past and present) are not the issue here. Don't defame them or knock them. In fact the "new" GG is a nicer better place to shop (with the same employees) then it was before.

9:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While i am thrilled to get the 10% discount that the "new" GG gives to just about anybody...I am not thrilled at the lack of cleanliness of the store. It is filthy and more closely resembles a boro park business than it did under the old owners. They are also more flexible than the old owners were but i also hear that they are having financial issues due to their lack of control or basic business sense... I hope not.

11:36 AM  
Anonymous BraveJeWorld said...

ah, shul politics... don't you just love it :-)

4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, what happened with the stabbing this morning (8/22) at GG? Whodunnit? Whogotit?

4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

could it be divine retribution for vaad activities? which rabbi was it?

9:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Want the latest gossip on Orthomom? Visit http://.

5:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have lived in the community all my life- 55 years. I am hear longer than most people on both sides of the issues discussed here.I have watched the community become more orthodox. i am modern orthodox and feel that the non orthodox are sometimes right about their criticism and sometimes they are way off based. I think that a comittee should be formed of orthos and non orthos to investigate 'problems' and report all such charges to allleviate the obvious bad blood.

3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

35 year modern ortho resident here, While the above idea has merit, to whom will the committee report. As the community is so diverse who is the "leader" that can control people after the problems are reported.

6:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:06 PM: Jesse Mistero! LMAO!

10:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jesse only controls the fiefdom of Inwood, And whom controls the orthos??

8:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about a report to newspapers. Just jawboning from a neutral impartial committee might do some good. an item should be witnessed , reported and perhaps a talking to by someone that individual respects to stop.

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, and what constitutes an "item"??

1:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, if I go into a store and state to the owner that I hear that there are people (idiots in my opinion) who will not shop here because you are open on saturday, would that be an item??

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:01 PM: That's a good start.

8:53 AM: If you think J. Mistero controls ONLY Inwood, you are sadly mistaken. North Lawrence and Cedarhurst, the school district, sanitation district and issues at Cedarhurst Village Hall are within his perview, unfortunately.

7:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops. I meant purview.

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops. I meant purview.

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops. I meant purview.

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops. I meant purview.

7:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops. I meant purview.

7:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:01 - JM might control institutions, but he does not control people.

By the way, JM is the Republican leader of Inwood, Mayor Persie (sic) is the leader of Cedarhusrt.

7:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:41 AM: I guess you didn't realize that Mayor Parise is JM's uncle and the Commissioner of Public Works is his cousin? Even with a board of trustees in Cedarhurst, or an Orthodox public school board, you'd be suprised about control JM has.

12:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about the Five Towns and Rockaway Interfaith Clergy Council, which includes Orthodox (strict, modern, etc.) reform and non-jewish clergy? That would be a great start. You can reach out to Rabbi Winnig about this at: 569- 0267 or to any other member of the council.

It would be a great start, wouldn't it?

3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

again JM might control institutions but does he control people and their action??

3:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JM would LOVE that, but most are such jerks to follow someone like him.

6:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And even if jm can, who controls the orthos. there is no single leader??

6:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no single leader. A cross-section would have to represent the community, just like the divisions that have occurred.

The Five Towns and Rockaway Interfaith Clergy Council is a good idea.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please sign a petition to get OM to permanently shut herself down at http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com

5:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From 9/15 Newsday:

"Even after the New York State comptroller revoked private attorney Albert D'Agostino's public pension and called his case one of the "most egregious" in the state, two school districts that improperly reported him as an employee have reappointed him and agreed to pay his firm hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Both the Lawrence and North Merrick school districts have rehired D'Agostino, who garnered a six-figure pension after persuading the state to grant him 21 years of retroactive credit in the state pension system. D'Agostino began collecting his pension in 2000 and had continued to work for the districts as a consultant.

D'Agostino declined yesterday to comment on his reappointment, and said he is planning to appeal the comptroller's decision.

In Lawrence, the school board opted not to open up the contract to bidding. Instead, it is slated tonight to approve setting aside $370,000 to pay D'Agostino's firm for the upcoming school year -- nearly triple what the district paid him in the 2006-07 school year, according to district records."

8:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please sign a petition to get OM to permanently shut herself down at http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com

1:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

since her last post was so lo0ng ago...i guess she, like gourmet glatt, are out of business!!

9:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Shoving it down one’s throat leads to enmity. ... There is no intention by the rabbi to create a shtetl or another Lawrence.”

No one wants to be another Lawrence, so cut it out already. America First, Obama 08

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9:41 PM  
Anonymous sheldan said...

This is insane...people should still have the right to open their shops as they see fit. If someone voluntarily wants to close on Saturday and open on Sunday, that is their business. Similarly, if the shopkeeper wants to open on Saturday and close on Sunday, that is their right. The only recourse customers would have if they had a problem with certain hours is to take their business elsewhere.

As I understand it, the eruv is probably not visible to anyone who is not actively trying to find it. I don't see how the presence of an eruv should matter in the first place.

It seems that there is a lot of misinformation about religious people that is at the heart of this controversy.

2:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said. Live and let live.

6:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please sign a petition to get OM to permanently shut herself down at http://endoforthomom.blogspot.com

3:32 PM  
Blogger leany said...

Members of the Hampton Synagogue, led by high-profile Rabbi Marc Schneier, had hoped to marshal support for the eruv during the summer season.
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7:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:11 this statement is no new it appeared in the post on 9/8

9:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So whats the real reason why bagel island was closed "due to electrical issues"??

6:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did OM ever say why she was going on hiatus or quitting? Bizarre to be such a high profile and active blogger and then to cease without an announcement. Maybe I missed it.

Todd

9:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
So whats the real reason why bagel island was closed "due to electrical issues"??

6:08 PM


you have got to be kidding?? it was the Kosha Nostra!! the Department of Justice ( the people that put away rubashkin) are already on the Vaad's trail regarding this... I hope that Rabbi
eisen is the next one they go after..poetic justice is heaven-sent.

9:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

America is for people to come together on neutral ground and terms, not for people to take over with their individual agendas.

get out of our country, please, or I will hack-job you and have you deported for treason against the American government

9:14 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

Are you still around? We miss you!

8:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's polite to say goodbye at least.

2:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dear orthomom.. are you lost in cyber-space???

8:14 AM  
Anonymous rabbi lars shalom said...

this woman is god!! think; heroine of the day

7:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I live in the Monroe Area of Orange County and the perception of non-jews in the area is that the Ultra-Orthodox are not good neighbors.

Frankly they walk around like they own the world and don't have the courtesy to even say thank you when you open a door for them. I grew up in a modern orthodox family and always respected the ultra orthodox, but this generation has become very militant to the detriment.

They treat non-jews as sub humans not worthy of courteous interactions. As a result there is a lot of ignorance and misconceptions floating around about them.

Some of these same fear and misconceptions are held by non-practicing jews as well.

If the Orthodox want to be understood, then they need to reach out and explain more about their ways. That they want to be good neighbors. That they respect their non-believing neighbors.

Given what has happened with the Lawrence school Board and the East Ramapo School Board it is underatandable that some would be fearful of an influx of orthodox families. Two years ago the Orhodox community in block voted out a Holocaust Survivor who had been a very effective school board member for decades because she in earnest tryed to represent the entire community.

Instead of being so angry and offended Othomom try to see things through someone else's eyes.

Its not Orthodox Jews in general that are distructed but a kind of tribalism backed up with political power.

9:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(a) I cant not agree with the following "because she in earnest tryed to represent the entire community." No one gets voted out for that. Sh was not ortho is the reason.

(b) Tribalism, is that the same as the muslims in Dearborn, the Greeks in Astoria and the Chinese in China Town, or is that just the way homogeneous groups act??

If only the world truly were the heterogeneous group that 9:58 wants maybe it would a better yet boring place.

6:17 PM  
Blogger EnEf123 said...

I live in Jerusalem and there has recently been trouble with one of the eiruv's here. Someone has been cutting the eiruv EVERY Shabbos for a number of weeks. A committee was formed and they caught the culprit. It was a college professor!! The only thing that will help is davening. One option I think is powerful is 40 days of Western Wall prayers.

5:52 PM  
Blogger EnEf123 said...

I live in Jerusalem and there has recently been trouble with one of the eiruv's here. Someone has been cutting the eiruv EVERY Shabbos for a number of weeks. A committee was formed and they caught the culprit. It was a college professor!! The only thing that will help is davening. One option I think is powerful is 40 days of Western Wall prayers.

5:52 PM  
Blogger David said...

Can you PLEASE weigh in on the closing of the #6 School????

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