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Thursday, November 09, 2006

5TJT Gourmet Glatt Update

Larry Gordon has some updates on the Gourmet Glatt story. His take:
Would there never have been a Gourmet Glatt crisis to begin with if those involved hadn’t inflamed the situation by talking to newspapers instead of to each other? Well, that seems to be the opinion of several of those who have been involved in the two-week crisis that has been allegedly brewing for the last six years.
It's an interesting view, and might explain why things got so out of control so quickly. I guess if the allegation that both parties spoke to everyone but each other is true, it makes a good case for keeping the lines of communication open in a dispute such as this.

Rabbi Kravitz is also given an opportunity in the article to defend himself against last week's claims by a community Rav that he acted in disrespect of the Vaad by taking on the hasgacha of Gourmet Glatt:
As for K-1, the new certifying agency for Gourmet Glatt, Rabbi Kravitz called the Five Towns Jewish Times last week to say he also felt that he was not being dealt with fairly and wanted to clear up several points about how he came to provide certification for Gourmet Glatt. As reported in last week’s paper, a Vaad HaKashrus member accused Rabbi Kravitz of attempting to undermine the local Vaad by moving in on Vaad territory during a crisis. Rabbi Kravitz said that in his original meetings with the Gourmet Glatt owners, also present at the meeting were two rabbis from the community who encouraged him to supervise the kashrus at Gourmet Glatt and that, had they not encouraged him to do so, he never would have taken the job. It’s expected that, as part of any settlement between the parties, agenda item number one will be the cancellation of the K-1 kashrus contract if and when the Five Towns Vaad returns.
I think everyone who lives here in the 5 Towns would be very happy to close this chapter.

70 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

B"H".

5:04 PM  
Blogger Krum as a bagel said...

"rabbis from the community"

Who exactly? As I understand it, the Vaad denies having any advance knowledge of R' Kravitz taking on the job. So if these rabbis were on the Vaad, then the Vaad is bveing dishonest, and if they are not, R' Kravitz is being disingenuous.

5:08 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Krum, I agree. It's another weird little wrinkle in an already convoluted story.

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would feel bad for R' Kravitz if he was so quickly run out of town.

5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

at least he still has mexico and miami

6:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're all living in a dream world if any of you feel that this is at all important!

6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess the mutual pictures of Gordon and Fertig (dueling publishers), at the LIRR siyum was only fluff, and now the gloves are off in the newspaper wars. Is Gordon claiming that Fertig's expose was the cause of the fued?

7:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who exactly? As I understand it, the Vaad denies having any advance knowledge of R' Kravitz taking on the job. So if these rabbis were on the Vaad, then the Vaad is bveing dishonest, and if they are not, R' Kravitz is being disingenuous.


The article does not say that RK claimed it was VAAD Rabbis, or Rabbis acting on behalf of the VAAD. Rabbis are Rabbis in their own right and do things that are not on behalf or in conjunction with the VAAD, they may have an opinion of their own and still stick together when it comes to supporting the VAAD even though they don't fully agree with the issue.

In addition, many bloggers have noted that 37 Rabbonim does not constitute ALL the Rabbonim of the community!!!

8:07 PM  
Blogger Still Wonderin' said...

"Anonymous said...
You're all living in a dream world if any of you feel that this is at all important!"



YOU.ARE.WRONG.

8:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How was business today at GG?

8:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, I read the article and I agree that the consumers will be the winners in the end when this all settled. However I don't believe that neither Rabbi Eisen, the VAAD, nor the Bolenders will prove to be any stronger or more powerful at the end of the day.

They have all lost credibility in the eyes of the community. The L"H and old skeletons that have been brought out from the back of the closet has been enough negative exposure to sit in the memories, hearts and minds of the community for a long time. This was big damage and no way gave an ounce of thought to damage control.

So no matter which side you are on in this dispute, whether you presonally feel that your side won, the truth is they all lost. No one got 100% what they meant to accomplish to begin with and each will have to compromise in the end so we the community can win, heal and be whole again. AT LEAST WE CAN THANK ALL OF THEM FOR THAT!

8:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Recognizing that Larry Gordon reads this blog, and some of the vaad rabbis, and the Bolenders probably do as well, I think it's a bit of a stretch to characterize the community as fractured as a result of this.

8:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't believe there are that many people in the community who have such a strong attachment to GG that they were so fazed by these circumstances. Most people I know used to shop there occassionally for convenience, and now they don't. Most people also assume that this is a temporary situation, since the store will not succeed like this, and will have to sell or make up with the vaad in the near future. So people generally don't care that much - It's just something else to shmooze about in shul or at the table.

9:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For a large diverse community to have 1 standard of kashrus acceptable to all is truly unique.
That is what the VAAD claims they are attempting to achieve.
But the VAAD needs to be consistent. You can't tell us that GG violated their VAAD contract by adding an additional Hechsher, while allowing SeaWorld to proudly advertise a prominent local Rav's hechsher in addition to the VAAD's.

One standard...one set of rules.

9:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

silly nitpicking.

the vaad has to do whatever is necessary to maintain the requisite standard of kashrus.

the enforcement of kashrus is all about chazakos and judgement. which vaad is bound by hard and fast rules restricting it from making judgement calls? it just wouldn't work and tying the vaad's hands in any way would ultimately harm the level of kashrus in the community (though it might benefit storeowners).

9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares whether one store objects to the vaad's standards? The only thing that most people care about is being able to rest assured that their food is kosher and that the vaad is doing a good job. I can understand why a storeo might take issue with the vaad's judgment at times, but as a customer of the store, I'd much rather if the vaad would prevail in any issue where stricter enforcement is sought by the vaad.

10:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe there is a window of opportunity on both sides now-lets all put pride/egos aside and do tchuva.Shabbat Shalom

10:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I believe there is a window of opportunity on both sides now-lets all put pride/egos aside and do tchuva.Shabbat Shalom

10:13 PM

what a wonderful idea for this shabbos!! finally, a mensch speaks. shabbat shalom to all.

11:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's a little snippet that hasn't been hashed about ad nauseum that sheds some light on the Vaad's standards and enforcement.
In The Jewish Star article from two weeks ago, Rabbi Kravitz said that he'd already taken steps that will make him rest easier at night, such as prohibiting the employees from bringing in food from home for their personal consumption during break time.
Why was it necessary for Rabbi Kravitz to stop this? How did it ever get started? Was this practice going on under the noses of the mashgichim with their approval? If they didn't know about, what are they doing all day? Did the Bolenders know about it? If they didn't, why not? If they did why was it happening?
So let's not assume that the Vaad walks the walk as well as it talks the talk. Sure it's nice and convenient to have the Vaad watching the shopkeepers, but who exactly is watching the Vaad? If they don't feel it's necessary to stop an employee from bringing in treif can they really be paying all that much attention. I mean isn't this a no-brainer? You would think that the very first rule for a kosher store would be, "No Treif Allowed."
Sure it's great having a Vaad with such high standards, but it would be even better if those standards were applied and enforced. I realize this might mean that Rabbi Eisen might have to spend a couple of hours a month in the Five Towns, but life's tough all over.

12:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... here we go again

2:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an attorney who lives in the 5T but, thank g-d practices elsewhere, I think we NEED to put this to rest. The article in the 5tjt quotes the Vaads attorney Frank ??? as saying this case would be "without merit." If ANY documents exist (and I don't know that they do) ORDERING the business to be sold by a specific date would definitely considered by a judge to "have merit" and be held over for trial. Neighbors-don't we have enough problems? We already pay a "Vaad surcharge" in addition to our shul dues-do you want to add a "legal defense fund" fee on top of this? The Vaad attorney is VERY pricey. Why hire the "frum Perry Mason" for a case deemed non-meritorious??? Let's put this to rest-this community has suffered enough-I would rather read about this happening in Brooklyn-where it belongs!

8:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In The Jewish Star article from two weeks ago, Rabbi Kravitz said that he'd already taken steps that will make him rest easier at night, such as prohibiting the employees from bringing in food from home for their personal consumption during break time.
Why was it necessary for Rabbi Kravitz to stop this? How did it ever get started? Was this practice going on under the noses of the mashgichim with their approval?
If it was permitted-it is probably permitted

If they didn't know about, what are they doing all day? Did the Bolenders know about it?
Relevant if it violated Vaad standards-whatever they are.

If they didn't, why not? If they did why was it happening?

The Vaad must have clear standards that should be publicly available-on a website-thus any store or potential store or consumer should know what is expected of a Vaad place.
Everything should be open.
Mashgichim should be paid by the Vaad not the store. The Vaad should list their prices for hashgacha-it could be a sliding scale depending on sales etc-but should be published. The Vaad then would be responsible for the hashgacha-who and when would be the Vaads choosing.
The Vaad should have an automatic referral of all "violations" found by a mashgiach available to the public-together with disposition-space should be availabel for a statement by the store if they choose. When the Vaad goes open about everything-confidence would be restored easily. A Vaad requires not only integrity but the appearance of integrity-liyot nkiim beinei elokim vadam.

8:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The article in the 5tjt quotes the Vaads attorney Frank ??? as saying this case would be "without merit."
the only way it could be considered wo merit is if Frank Snitow-a well known attorney who the innocent don't need-were not being used. The only way on the surface it would be wo merit is if he is succesful with a defense similar to his succesful one of a few Rabbis who were sued for a betraying confidences that were given to them in confidence. He succesfully used the argument that courts should not get involved in internal religious issues. There may or may not be distinguishable differences here. BTW those Rabbis got off the hook financially with a big loss to Rabbis in general-BTW now people have less confidence in telling a Rabbi anything-once some Rabbis got away with betraying a confidence given thenm under the clergyman-penitent privilege others may be tempted to do the same thing.

If ANY documents exist (and I don't know that they do) ORDERING the business to be sold by a specific date would definitely considered by a judge to "have merit" and be held over for trial.

Assuming Snitow doesn't succeed in
his "religious entanglement defense"

Neighbors-don't we have enough problems?

We already pay a "Vaad surcharge" in addition to our shul dues

Why that should be necessary is beyond me-Kashrut makes money-it is not a necessity like a Mikva or Eruv-it should be the cost of those who want to use them to make money in the food business.


-do you want to add a "legal defense fund" fee on top of this? The Vaad attorney is VERY pricey. Why hire the "frum Perry Mason" for a case deemed non-meritorious??? Let's put this to rest-this community has suffered enough-I would rather read about this happening in Brooklyn-where it belongs!
But when people want to imitate "Brooklyn" by raising standards or is it increasing featherbedding that is what happens.

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is SeaWorld and who gives a hechsher there?

10:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a well known attorney who the innocent don't need-?????

At $650/hr his skills are better off used to defend the guilty!!!

10:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rabbi Blumencranz gives the hechsher at Seaworld-the fish store, not the amusement park!!

10:46 AM  
Anonymous observer said...

For those of you who think that GG has a possibly viable lawsuit. I have to disagree. As soon as it is possible that there is a religious basis for what is done, the courts will decline to consider the issue. The New York Times ran an articles on this issue within the past few months. If a diocese can fire a nun because she developed breast cancer, without being subject to the employment laws that would otherwise apply because there was possibly a religious basis for the termination, the same should apply to the Vaad's kashruth determination.

11:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

except their letter specified contractual violations???

11:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those of you who think that GG has a possibly viable lawsuit. I have to disagree. As soon as it is possible that there is a religious basis for what is done, the courts will decline to consider the issue. The New York Times ran an articles on this issue within the past few months. If a diocese can fire a nun because she developed breast cancer, without being subject to the employment laws that would otherwise apply because there was possibly a religious basis for the termination, the same should apply to the Vaad's kashruth determination.

Probably correct-BUT "their letter specified contractual violations". In addition since it is clear the basis was not a religious determination-by the Rabbis own actions-a court may step in because ultimately this is a contractual issue. Note 100 years ago-there were NY cases enforcing the value of a Ketubah on contract law. Thus courts will enforce contractual cases-this is different arguably than the Snitow getting off Rabbis who violate confidences-because their arguably there was no contract and Rabbis could argue -I think hypocritically-but could argue everything told to them absent specific agreement they follow their religious feelings about law.
I think what would really drive the Vaad to settle they would not want a case started where a court would have to take evidence to see if the issue is a religious one or a business decision, Practices of the Vaad making public records-might be embarrassing to say the least to people claiming to be agents of God.
One must not ignore recent cases where Courts did not give absolute right for religions in business matters to follow their faith when others use the service. Arguably, a long shot argument is that Kashrut has been shown and advertised by Kahrut organizaions to be a symbol of purity to non Ortho Jews and non Jews-estimates are that 10 times the amount of peopel nationwide look for Kashrut laber who aren't Ortho.
Weak argument-but settlement has to be in the air GG needs Vaad and Vaad can't afford being forced to disclose their moidus operandi under oath.

11:35 AM  
Anonymous observer said...

I have to disagree with the last two posts (disagreeing with me). Once the Vaad asserts that it was their determination, based upon religious principles, etc., that an individual who violates contractual provisions cannot be trusted for kasruth purposes, any court will wash its hands of the matter. I would also point out that last week, in Rabbi Billet's address to the YIW on the issue, he expressly rejected the proposition that the Vaad's certification was removed over contractual issues. So, like most matters related to these issues, the "facts" are far from clear and I cannot imagine a court involving itself in these issues.

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the letter posted on THIS blog indicated "contractual" violations-on Vaad letterhead to boot-how much clearer does it need to be?

11:50 AM  
Anonymous observer said...

To anonymous 11:50 AM: I am not giving you my opinion on what the Vaad's real motives were. I have no idea. I am not even giving you my opinion as to which side, is more right or wrong -- I am still trying to figure it out. I am merely giving my legal opinion (which for better or worse is what I do for a living) that I don't think New York State courts will determine these matters.

12:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am merely giving my legal opinion (which for better or worse is what I do for a living) that I don't think New York State courts will determine these matters.


I agree but there is at least hazards of litigation in the Vaads position. BTW is the Vaad incorporated under the Religious Corporation Law? If not, it might be a lot harder argument-is the Vaad incorporated altogether? If not you may have a partnership which liability could arguably be with the members of the Vaad? What is the Vaad-anyone find it listed registered anyplace?

"in Rabbi Billet's address to the YIW on the issue, he expressly rejected the proposition that the Vaad's certification was removed over contractual issues."
Assuming he said that-believe it was done to try and have it both ways set up the legal defense its wholly a religious determination-while the letter which stated it was a contractual one -well we just did that to mislead the dumb members of our 5T schuls.Otherwise they would criticize us for not informing them of Kashrut issues.
It appears his statements are clearly being made in anticipation of litigation.
Vaad and GG settle this darn thing before it destroys both of you.

12:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the Vaad-anyone find it listed registered anyplace?

I tried w/o success

12:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where can we obtain a copy of the Vaad's form 990.

1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If indeed the Vaad IS NOT registered as a Corporation or any other form of Corporate identity, then not only the Vaad BUT every Rabbi from every shul can be held accountable if their words caused harm.Indeed this would require every Rabbi to secure individual legal counsel, $$$$$$$.Tell Perry Mason to go home and let open talks begin.Settle this now.
Shabbat Shalom

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the Vaad-anyone find it listed registered anyplace?

I tried w/o success

12:59 PM


Anonymous said...
Where can we obtain a copy of the Vaad's form 990.


I tried to find the Vaad in Guidestar-looked through the 5T's and didn't notice it listed-perhaps they have a different official name,didn't see them in Pub 78. Try on line search at www.irs.gov search for publication 78-gives online choice-I put in word vaad and state NY had 23 hits none remotely from the 5T area. Prima facie it is not a tax exempt organization-if so is that why they don't solicit money directly? They go through schuls and charitable appeals from schuls which then hand over money directly to the Vaad.

2:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI-the folllowing is the copy of the output from the online Pub 78 listing for Vaad in NY. Note there are some other Vaad Hakashrus around but none from here. Is that why Snitow is hired?


Name City State Country Code
Shari Vaad Tov Monroe NY USA --
Vaad Haarabonim of Queens Inc. Flushing NY USA --
Vaad Haartzy Inc. (Until December 2009) Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Hachinuch Hachareid Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Hakashrus of Buffalo Inc. Williamsville NY USA --
Vaad Hakashrus of Crown Inc. (Until December 2005) Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Hakashruth Corp Albany NY USA --
Vaad Hakol Crown Heights Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Hamitzvos Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Hanochos Hatmimim Inc. Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Harabanim Hasefaradim Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Harabbanim Linyanei Pzeduka Inc. (Until December 2007) Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Houtzues Sfurim Inc. Monroe NY USA --
Vaad Kehiloth Hakodesh Inc. Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad L-Chizuk Kiyum Hamitzvoth Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad L-Hachnusas Orchim Inc. Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad L. Hatzolas Nidchei Yisroel Inc. Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Lchizuk Hadas Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Lchizuk Hatorah Inc. Flushing NY USA --
Vaad Lehakomas Kollelim New York NY USA --
Vaad Leharomas Keren Hatorah Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Mishmeres Hatorah Brooklyn NY USA --
Vaad Mishmeres Stam Inc. Brooklyn NY USA --


« Prev | 1-23 | Next

Maybe they spell it differently-but a quick search of charities by cities didn't show anything like it. Someone recheck me please-its online.

2:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

interesting, isnt it? I could not find anything either nor was my accountant able to secure a 5500 form. I am not an accountant so i do not know what this form specifically is, however, i was told that all not for profits are required to submit audited reports annually... we all donate thousands of dollars through our dues, plus i understand the stores that are under theVaad pay several hundred ( or thousands) in monthly fees.. where is it going? if Rabbi eisen makes 120,000 and there is a secretary and operating expenses, where are the rest of the funds going to??? has anyone had the chutzpah yet to ask the vaad for their annual tax returns? Someone with more knowledge here on this blog about not for profits should be able to get it out to our shuls.

2:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

interesting, isnt it? I could not find anything either nor was my accountant able to secure a 5500 form. I am not an accountant so i do not know what this form specifically is, however, i was told that all not for profits are required to submit audited reports annually... we all donate thousands of dollars through our dues, plus i understand the stores that are under theVaad pay several hundred ( or thousands) in monthly fees.. where is it going? if Rabbi eisen makes 120,000 and there is a secretary and operating expenses, where are the rest of the funds going to??? has anyone had the chutzpah yet to ask the vaad for their annual tax returns? Someone with more knowledge here on this blog about not for profits should be able to get it out to our shuls.

2:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The VAAD is just like the mafia. You follow there rules or they put you out! Shame on the VAAD and shame on the thirty some odd rabbis that signed on. I am so embarrassed to be part of this community

3:53 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

A word to the anti-Vaad commenter who keeps using the same Ip address for comments like the ones above, left in the hour before Shabbos when everyone else is getting ready(just like your M.O. last week). I'm on to you. You're the same guy, from a specific IP, and EVERYONE here should know it.

The bottom line is that this is a losing battle. The decisions here were made by just about every Rav in the community. And people respect their Rabbanim more than they respect the Bolenders or a lone commenter feverishly trying to stir up anti-Vaad sentiment.

One has to wonder about your intent. Let's just say it looks very suspicious.

4:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orthomom-
I hope you were not referring to me-but I counted the last 11 posts on Friday-if I am correct I wrote 4 of them-clearly more than 1 writer. My last post was 222 PM before shabbos.
If I'm wrong check the IP addresses-I believe my posts raised serious issues.

9:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't believe there are that many people in the community who have such a strong attachment to GG that they were so fazed by these circumstances. Most people I know used to shop there occassionally for convenience, and now they don't.

I guess that is the point, it is about just the daled amos you live in and just the people you know. However, if you were a consumer of GG and you know the workings of the store, the ins and outs, the people you meet in the store, the cashiers, the lines and how they make them move, the number of cashiers on duty to make the line move faster, the number of baggers for the same reason, the number of helpers available to take your groceries out to the car and so on, all for the customers benefit. And how about the staff on the floor who always know exactly where to find any product whenever you ask. You always find the same people on the floor, the same employees always around with a smile to help you out with whatever you are looking for. You can get in and out of the store as quickly as you need to because there are no surprises and everyone is pleasant and helpful.

And because they have Mashgichim there all the time who are responsible for accepting ALL the deliveries, we never worry about the products on the shelf and if we do, we go to the back and we talk to the mashgiach or we go to the office and he pages the mashgiach to the office.

The Kashrus has been in the hands of the VAAD and their Mashgichim and that is why the consumers of GG have been so hurt and confused by this whole thing. If you are concerned about the KASHRUS factor then why are you not forcing the VAAD to take accountability for that issue. They were indeed responsible for any kashrus issue in the store from the day they placed their hechsher on the window.

1:37 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

the vaad has to do whatever is necessary to maintain the requisite standard of kashrus.


That's double talk which is an equivalent to double standards. All in the same

1:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd much rather if the vaad would prevail in any issue where stricter enforcement is sought by the vaad.


And you are entitled to your opinion. And I to mine, and if I would eat in an establishment in Brooklyn where Rabbi Kravitz gives a Hashgocha or I ate in Miami where he gave a Hashgocho I don't see why I shouldn't use his hashgocho in my local neighborhood. His strict guidelines in his other establishments would apply here as well.

1:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon 8:44 am, I'm with you, put it out so the public can know what the rules are. Also put out the violations like the Gov't does. This will work for everyone, it will keep the stores in line and keep the consumers at the highest level of respect and admiration for a job well done. In addition, we can and will all learn more about kashrus in general.

1:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If ANY documents exist (and I don't know that they do)

Of course they do, did you ever hear the VAAD accusing the Bolenders of being Stupid?

1:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At $650/hr his skills are better off used to defend the guilty!!!


At $650 it better be coming out of RYE personal pockets. As a community member who is expecting to support the VAAD, I am not agreeing to support Frank Snitow ridiculous price nor his revenge seeking, ego stroking, media making inuendos.

1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those of you who think that GG has a possibly viable lawsuit

You can all twist and turn things to make them come out the way you see fit. But this is a society of litigation and anyone can sue anyone for ANY reason.

In this case, there is a big issue of slander which caused loss of income. In addition there was a contract violation on the side of the VAAD as well. Everything that happened in the VAAD meetings was supposed to be strictly confidential. How is that ALL that information leaked out? Who knew that the Bolenders were allegedly not Shomer Shabbos for one, and then there are those other little bits of information everyone comes home from shul with every day.

How does everyone know these things? Every single piece of slander against the Bolenders came from somewhere. Even the chicken story. And yes, the chicken story will have merit in court because the VAAD accused GG of mislabeling a product which is an issue whether it is a religious or non-religious issue. In fact the VAAD will finally have to provide proof that it was bought at GG, which they never did before and that in itself will clear up the original matter which caused this entire controversy to begin with.

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to observer,

In that case they probably would have Rabbi Kravitz testify and maybe Rabbi Weiner or other Rabbonim, that the contract was already violated first by the VAAD by leaking information first and by trying to force them to sell, both issues would be duly considered by the courts as contractual violations and allow the case to be heard.

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't believe you can check the IP addresses of the posts submitted to a blog, that is why we have anons, and even if we have signed in, we are still entitled to our privacy.

2:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the host of the blog can see the IP addresses but would need a court order to find out who they belonged to....an intelligent I.T.-(another word for a computer maven)

2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every non-profit has to file a 990 form. The VAAD has not admitted to being a non-profit. They have not admitted to be a registered corporation. We don't know how they opened a checking account. GG should check the back of their checks to see just which bank account their checks went into.

Is it possible that the payments to the VAAD are diverted through other accoutns? Is it possible that RYE is getting paid through other accounts, such as each shul paying him something through the monies collected by each shul?

2:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

krum as a bagel, can you see IP addresses on your blog?

2:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the blog administrator can see ip's through a sitemeter like om has. I guess if there's only one guy reading a post and comments are piling up, om can see that. I do know that seeing ips doesn't mean we give up any anonymity or privacy. Om dididnt claim to know who the commneter was. Just that he was the one who left a few comments in a row. She would need a supbeaona to see who an ip belongs to. I don't think she's going to go that route. I guess it just tells us not to leave numerous fake comments in a row

3:35 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Let me be clear:

I warned commenters more than once in previous posts on this subject that I will not tolerate commenters who endlessly trash the Vaad and the local Rabbanim. And nevertheless, a particular commenter did just that. Leaving three comments in a row that professed to be from different commenters, calling the Vaad names. I felt I was justified in disclosing that the commenter(s) were really one guy. I did not, however, reveal said commenter's IP, and will not publicly do so in the future.

4:44 PM  
Blogger No Blind Faith said...

Well then maybe we all have to realize that the Rabbonim don't want us to bash neither the Rabbonim, the VAAD, NOR the Bolenders.

5:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Snitow is doing the work pro bono.

11:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha, ha, ha, That is the funniest joke ever posted.

10:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 11:45 IP address was traced to the Vaad office .

4:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then I guess they know what they're talking about.

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 4:27 IP address was traced to Bolender's office. (I should know, I have super sneaky IP-detector installed on my computer)

6:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

give it a rest...once and for all...unless you are the attorney general and get a court order-you cannot trace an IP to an individual-these comments are absurd-about both the Vaad AND the Bolenders!

8:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps, it is time for the DA's office should get involved. This is sounding more and more like Rico.

11:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Frank Snitow and his partners ( I knwo Mark) are wonderful attorneys and good people to boot. I think they would have done as admirable a job speaking out for Mr. Bolender had he retained them first.

I was serious about the fact that they are nice people but they are just doing their job. I wonder how much of what they are saying they actually agree with. Being very sought after divorce attorneys I'm sure they have had their share of clients they felt were childish and illogical , but all clients are afforded representation in these great states of hours.

Not including the Five Towns where RYE often isn't available when he is needed.

8:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Theres a great article on the Gourmet Glatt issue on www.unkosherkashrut.blogspot.com
you guys should defenitly check it out.

5:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the kashrus of a store is based on a mashgiach if there is fault in the hashgocha the vaad is to blame.
however the vaad can terminate a contract if the feel that the store isnt living p to its (THE VAADS)standerds

11:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As for Brooklyn stay out we can clean our own own messes if we feel that a vaad is non good or a rabbi such as a loud mouth who gets his power from insulting others or trying to destroy bayis naemonim bisroel we shut him up on our own. As someone who lives in brooklyn I take great offense when people like larry Gorden say that sores in brooklyn do things like staying open late People work till midnight & need the stores to be open if it is a Hangout it is because the Parents DO NOT TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILDREN.

11:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

god byrjun

3:22 AM  

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