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Monday, March 05, 2007

More on Purim Drinking

The LA Times ran an article this weekend over the rampant underage drinking that occurs every year around Purim time:
Purim, a holiday celebrating the foiling of a plot to kill the Jews of ancient Persia, is often used by many — including the underaged — as an excuse to get drunk.

The festival, which starts today at sundown, is observed with costumes, storytelling and boisterous behavior. But growing concern about excessive drinking on Purim is prompting some Jewish leaders and groups to call for moderation or to suggest that celebrants forgo alcohol entirely.

An incident last year, in which an Orthodox Jewish high school student in Los Angeles went to an emergency room after drinking too much during another religious holiday, triggered debate and reflection about alcohol abuse in the Jewish community.

"We're recognizing that with many of the teens who end up with a substance abuse problem, it was on Purim they got their start," said Rabbi Yosef Kanefsky of B'nai David-Judea, an Orthodox congregation in West Los Angeles.
The article suggests a crackdown of sorts on underage imbibing in the LA area this year. I would love to know how well that worked out. I heard much talk of a similar "crackdown" on the part of local yeshivas and Shuls in the wake of some incidents of irresponsible underage drinking last Purim. As a matter of fact, I received a letter in the mail from the administration of a Yeshiva whose students often come each Purim to collect in local homes, requesting that their Purim donors not serve alcohol to the students who come collecting. That's all very nice, and I guess making the request not to get the minors sloshed must be some sort of new and exciting trend, but how much clarity have we lost when the head of a Yeshiva has to send out a letter politely requesting ostensibly mature and responsible adults not to illegally serve minors alcohol - and that said letter is considered somehow groundbreaking?

I have no idea if this supposed crackdown cut down appreciably on underage drinking. I certainly saw my fair share of slobbering drunk teens while delivering Mishloach Manot around the neighborhood. Reports from your neighborhoods, readers? Anyone think that the drinking was less widespread? More? Did all this raising of awareness about the problem that we saw in the weeks leading up to Purim help at all? I'd love to hear from readers on this.

80 Comments:

Blogger Pragmatician said...

The younsters I saw around the streets were a little to loud to my taste but reasonably well behaved.

9:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're a real grump. Take a chill and enjoy the freakin holiday. I think you are the one that needs to drink a little.

9:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
Anonymous said...

You're a real grump. Take a chill and enjoy the freakin holiday. I think you are the one that needs to drink a little. "

Then call me a grump too. I know I didn't need a sixteen year old throwing up into my flowerpot while his friends slobbered all over my living room. This has nothing todo with having fun and enjoying the holiday. The sober boys who came around collecting looked to be having a far more enjoyable time than the guy who was vomiting.

9:21 AM  
Blogger MoChassid said...

To my view, I think the drinking was tempered. My view, of course, was somewhat limited but that's the impression I got.

10:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, I am a grump too. And a very concerned parent. I drove my kids a little crazy. And insisted on driving them to and from their chagiga. Even though they have friends who drive, I didn't want new-ish drivers having to deal with tipys/drunk drivers.
I saw teens have clean, sober holiday celebrations and was thrilled and relieved.
(I have to say that my kids tell me that people always underestimate teens. They're not all drunkards and partyers.)I must say that my kids and their friends are really terrific baalei mitzvot and baalei chesed.

10:23 AM  
Blogger YMedad said...

There's an apocryphal story of Levi Yitzchak of Berdichev being approached by a Russian tax collector on vodka and complained there his work was so hard. He chased the stills day and night, tracked down the coal, the water, the suppliers, those who made it and who sold it and who bought it, etc., etc. and yet, at the end of the day, he was "losing" at least 80% of the potential income from the taxes. The Berdichever said, "Nu, so? Why are you relating this to me?" and the Russain tax collector said, "And by you, without police, without fines and without jail, during the 8 days of Pesach, not one iota of what you call chametz is to be found. What is the secret of the powers of the Rabbis?"

The moral? Where today is the power of the Rabbis or, worse, where are the Rabbis?

11:36 AM  
Anonymous Modern Man said...

Now that Purim is over, how about a concerted attack by the chareidi Yeshivas against the deadly practice of tobacco smoking that still prevails among many of their young?

12:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You missed the whole point of the story - I've heard 4 different versions of this - but it's a nice story.
The POINT Mr. YummyDad is that the Rabbi's DO NOT have any special "powers" - the reason why there is no Chametz on Pesach is not because the Rabbis have a special power to convince us to get rid of the chometz but, rather, the will to get rid of chometz comes from WITHIN ourselves - we WANT to do it (Because of belief in G-d and the Torah) and no one has to stand over us and force us - Like the tax collector forcing taxes upon people.
So the same point holds true with drinking on Purim. We can be like the Tax Collector - imposing rules and attempting to force these rules upon people. OR, we can all collectively teach our children moderation, good values et. and let them learn on their own the right balance.
Will some kids be stupid and get trashed beyond reason? Yup. Will some of them even vomit? For sure. Some of them - about 1% will even get sick.
The vast majority will learn from life experiance and be better off for it.

12:52 PM  
Anonymous deemer said...

"how about a concerted attack by the chareidi Yeshivas against the deadly practice of tobacco smoking that still prevails among many of their young? "

Why should the yeshivas police the kids to this degree? Tell your kids yourself not to smoke. And if they don't listen to you, well, maybe it's because schools and parents can't birth little robots that obey everyone's every command.

I think by now that teenagers are well aware of the dangers of smoking. I doubt they do it becuase they're so naive that they can't fully comprehend that smoking is bad for you. They do it to rebel, ergo, yeshivas telling boys not to smoke won't do a heck of a lot. This is completely different than the alcohol issue, where people are enabling underage drinking.

1:32 PM  
Blogger FrumWithQuestions said...

I was at a Chagiga for adults Purim eve in which alcohol was served under a controlled Torah environment. There was a point where a few teenagers showed up and tried to take alcohol. It was quickly taken away from them and they were thrown out for trying to drink. I don't know why they thought they would be able to take especially since they were very young teenagers. The funny thing is the craziest people at the chagiga did not have one drink. In a way it was just there and most of it remained when the chagigah was over.

2:14 PM  
Blogger FrumWithQuestions said...

I was at a Chagiga for adults Purim eve in which alcohol was served under a controlled Torah environment. There was a point where a few teenagers showed up and tried to take alcohol. It was quickly taken away from them and they were thrown out for trying to drink. I don't know why they thought they would be able to take especially since they were very young teenagers. The funny thing is the craziest people at the chagiga did not have one drink. In a way it was just there and most of it remained when the chagigah was over.

2:14 PM  
Anonymous concerned mom said...

The honest truth is the once a year drinking doesn't bother me so much...the fear is that they will like that feeling of losing inhibition and they'll want to "get that feeling" during the year...That's what we have to watch out for. College campuses have more drinking each day than a regular Purim-that's my fear; that my boys will be like the drunk frat boys all the time!

3:02 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

"Yummy Dad"? Are you shiker Anon 12:32?

Anyway, here at Shiloh, the new associate Rosh Yeshiva laid down the rule that the band stops playing at 12:30 AM and so, unlike in previous years, the Yeshiva boys who attract the others simply halt the merriment at a time the Rabbi fixed. Think, m'lad, if the authority figure for Yeshiva kids insists on a certain level of behavior, eventually that'll work much better than parents. Adolescents act that way, i.e., listening not to parents but others. I am not suggesting we not try collectivity and I am not suggesting moderate intake but the pupils have to know there is a parameter so that your 1% is even lower.

3:20 PM  
Anonymous Double Take said...

Great, more wonderful publicity for us Jews - yet another reason for the world to hate us (as if they needed one).

3:39 PM  
Anonymous Fox said...

We had a lively discussion at our Purim seuda about whether excessive drinking at Purim was a relatively recent development or a long-standing problem. My husband cited a number of sources going back to Europe, at least, that seemed to demonstrate that teenage boys have had dubious judgment for at least a few generations, if not longer. So I definitely agree that we're not going to cure teenagers of being teenagers anytime soon.

That said, our respective communities exert pressure all the time to control behavior that our gedolim have identified as potentially problematic. There is no reason to exclude inappropriate alcohol consumption from this list. And I've *never* been able to figure out why smoking is tolerated. Reb Moshe Feinstein, zt'l, clearly prohibited anyone from *starting* the habit.

Anyway, one small step in the right direction was reported by my son, who was part of a non-drinking group of bochrim collecting for their yeshiva: he said that one major donor they visited refused entrance to a group of boys who were clearly inebriated and immediately placed a call to their Rosh Yeshiva to have a local representative pick them up. Although my son didn't witness the outcome, the g'vir's actions weren't wasted on him or his chevra.

4:38 PM  
Anonymous deeni said...

I saw 15, 16 yr olds with broken bottles, half filled bottles, and cigarettes hanging out of their mouths staggering around after megillah motzei shabbos. It got worse on Sunday.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Veganovich said...

In general, among frum people, other than Chassidim, there is not a big problem with alcoholism. The fact that there is a constant decrying of the problem does not reflect a real problem, but merely the puritanical and fearful mindset that frum people tend to have.

Kids are naturally curious about alcohol, and if they do not get to try it Purim, they will try it some other time. Even though there is purim, many will try it some other time. Part of growing up is trying alcohol, to see how one reacts to it. In the dormitory yeshiva I went to, in my tenth grade class, we had student who looked older and would sometimes buy beer for classmates. Most people tried it and had no interest, saying that they found it bitter. Others enjoyed it and had beer from time to time. (Keeping it hidden from the hanhala.) However, I do not think that anyone became alcoholics. (In a dormitory school like the one I went to, there was no privacy, and no secrets between students, so I would have known.)

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Underage drinking is clearly bad, but I do no think this crisis should be elevated to the yearly hysteria. My teenage son's Yeshiva (YFR) had a no drinking policy and many complied. On the other hand my son in Lakewood told me HaRav HaGaon Mattisyaho Solomon if not shiker Saturday sure appeared that way and he thought his torah was as good Saturday night as it is Friday night when he goes to his Vaad. Lastly when I was at Duke in North Carolina between 1973 to 1976 my friends got wasted three nights a week. Today they are big lawyers, big doctors and heads or Fortune 500 companies. My good friend who got wasted every week-end was Clinton's political advisor and I see him on the TV. So I am not so sure we are not over reacting. Tennagers yes but an out right ban give me a break.

6:37 PM  
Anonymous Fox said...

Mmmm, growing up to be a Clinton political advisor would seem to me to be motivation to *start* getting wasted every weekend . . .

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Drunks often wind up driving. Hopefully, neither you, me or our loved ones will be in a nearby car.

12:28 AM  
Anonymous Chillul hashem Heritage Foundation said...

The problem is much worse in Litvishe yeshivas than by the Chassidishe. The Litvishe do the mitzvah of drinking with all the chumras. From the age of 12 & 13 they get wasted. They go collecting with no supervision. The chassidishe kids must go with a rebbe and they hire a bus and driver.

10:01 AM  
Anonymous Nick Auf der Maur said...

A bochur in an inebriated condition fell was tripped up by another inebriated bochur and his leg was broken in many places. He had to have emergency surgery. Is this what Purim is about?

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PLEASE SHARE THIS PIECE BELOW WITH ANYONE WHOM YOU THINK MAY BENEFIT FROM IT. ESPECIALLY SHARE THIS WITH TEENS WHO BELIEVE PURIM IS A LICENSE TO GET DRUNK!!!

Dear Friend,

Last Purim started off like all others from years past, but it was almost the last Purim of my life. Beginning two weeks before Purim, Hatzoloh started putting up signs saying, 'This year don't get carried away’ with a picture of some poor kid being carried away on a stretcher. To me, these signs blended right into the background with the other signs hanging up all around my hometown of Brooklyn, New York.

You see, this year I decided I would make Purim even more 'geshmak? than in years past, because this Purim I would drink anyway. Don't get me wrong. I wasn't planning on getting drunk, just enough to make me high. I started out collecting like the last year, going from house to house. I had the most 'geshmak? group, I thought, but there was something missing. So when I was offered a drink at the next house, I took it. As I recall, it was Johnny Walker Black Label, which is 40% alcohol. I figured that if I took a cup, 8 oz, it would be better than taking eight individual shots, because I could drink the whole thing in just one shot.

After a few minutes, it starting hitting me, but I was able to continue collecting. About 15 minutes later I had another 'shot? of 8 oz. And was already getting 'high.’ The next few houses passed in a blur. I remember sitting in the houses and just singing. I couldn't really dance too much anymore, so I just sat down and sang.

I was starting to get a little headache, but I kept on going... after all this was 'geshmak’. No longer sober, and without my proper judgment skills, I took a cup and a bottle of Absolute Vodka. I remember my friends telling me not to take it, but I told them that I could handle it. Just a little, I thought, and this year would be most 'geshmak’. I took one cup and, surprisingly, it didn't burn when it went down. “Maybe I'm immune?” I thought. “This is great, I can drink and drink and I won't feel it going down?” I took another cup and another, and then, another. Then I poured half of another cup and I couldn't pour straight anymore, so I just drank what I had in my cup. I sat for about a minute without feeling anything. The alcohol
didn't have any effect on me.

'Why do they even put up posters telling people not to drink? It’s not even so dangerous! The people of the house didn't realize that I had drunk anything, because there were four or five groups bothering them for money. I suddenly started falling over. My head was attached to
my shoulders as if on a rubber band. My head flew back, then front, then to the right, then back again. The whole room was turning upside down. People were screaming my name. Then I blacked out! They called Hatzoloh and they were there in an instant. My eyes weren't dilating and when they touched me, I didn't feel it. I was staring straight ahead at the wall and didn't even feel the Hatzoloh man pinching me. They put me on a stretcher but my body kept slipping off as though I was made of 'jello’.

They strapped me down and off I was to the hospital. On the way out, Hatzoloh took my picture and later asked my mother for permission to use it. That's right, the next year I would be the poor kid on the stretcher.

I woke up eight hours later tied down to a bed. The last thing I remember was my head hitting the table as I fell to the floor. I looked around and saw a white room. Then I saw my mother crying with a Tehillim in her hand and my father at her side. Then I heard beeping. I couldn't get up because I was tied to the bed. So I just lifted my head. My mother asked me if I knew where I was. I thought, maybe I was in my room at home, but my room isn't in white. Then I
started thinking, maybe we went away on a trip somewhere, but why was my mother crying? Then I remembered the table coming at my head and then it hit me: I was in a hospital. The beeping? That was my heart rate being monitored on a screen next to the bed.

A doctor came in to make sure I was O.K. and to tell me how lucky I was to be alive. They told me that since I came in 'early? I was able to get a bed in a room as opposed to sleeping in the hallway. I still felt a little dizzy, but I was able to go home right away. The doctors told me my Blood Alcohol Content and told me that the IV that they gave me lowered my BAC, so I would have nothing more than a bad hangover. And again, he called me lucky. On the way out of the hospital the halls were lined with bachurim, unconscious on stretchers and beds. Parents and rebbeim were crying and saying Tehillim. It looked more like a funeral than Purim.

On a visit to my pediatrician, I realized why that doctor kept telling me I was lucky. My doctor calculated my weight with how much I drank (approximately 50 oz.) of 40% alcohol and told me that, according to the charts, I should have been dead a long time ago. The fact that I was still alive was a miracle in itself. Most people with that BAC are usually, at the very least, brain damaged. I asked him why I was not dead if his calculations and his charts were right. He looked me straight in the eye and said, 'Someone up there is watching over you.? I really am lucky.

Almost dead! Not a cold, not the flu, dead, because I wanted Purim to be more 'geshmak?. The people in the hospital and of Hatzoloh know that every year this happens to too many bachurim. Too many! Even one is too many! That's why they put up signs telling you not to drink. No, don't get carried away. What else do they have to do?

Written by Reuven Epstein, 18-years-old

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