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Sunday, October 07, 2007

Longer Living Through Bickering?

I found this quite interesting to read:
Recent studies show that how often couples fight or what they fight about usually doesn’t matter. Instead, it’s the nuanced interactions between men and women, and how they react to and resolve conflict, that appear to make a meaningful difference in the health of the marriage and the health of the couple.

A study of nearly 4,000 men and women from Framingham, Mass., asked whether they typically vented their feelings or kept quiet in arguments with their spouse. Notably, 32 percent of the men and 23 percent of the women said they typically bottled up their feelings during a marital spat.

In men, keeping quiet during a fight didn’t have any measurable effect on health. But women who didn’t speak their minds in those fights were four times as likely to die during the 10-year study period as women who always told their husbands how they felt, according to the July report in Psychosomatic Medicine. Whether the woman reported being in a happy marriage or an unhappy marriage didn’t change her risk.
So a woman who holds back from speaking her mind while arguing with her husband seems to be courting death. What's even more interesting is the fact that it didn't seem to matter if the women who held their tongues considered themselves to be in a happy marriage. Which means, at least according to this study, that even a woman in what she herself considers to be a happy marriage is not served well by holding back - even for the sake of peace. What's strange is the fact that men do not seem to have their health affected by similarly bottling up their feelings. Why is that? Is the fact that women suffer more ill effects from the stress of holding back their feelings completely physiological? Are women's constitutions really so much more delicate that they suffer more than men do from bottling up their feelings? Or is it that a vestige of the old patriarchal system - regardless of how far women seem have come on the equality front - has many men feeling superior deep down and thus unthreatened even when holding back their true feelings? Whereas no matter how equal a woman feels in a relationship, when withholding her feelings, she somehow feels abused and taken advantage of? I'm not sure, but I would love to hear some readers' ideas.

One more note: this study doesn't address whether couples would be better off trying not to bicker at all - it seems to concern only those couples already in the throes of bickering. One would have to imagine that there might be some better advice for a couple dealing with problems than to simply tell the woman to give as good as she gets.

55 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not bickering at all? Let's be realistic, it isn't very likely that a couple could live with each other for 40 or 50+ years without ever bickering!

As far as the difference between men and women, well, men have been bottling up their feelings for many generations and are used to it (sure we also die younger, maybe that is part of the reason?).

8:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as the difference between men and women, well, men have been bottling up their feelings for many generations and are used to it (sure we also die younger, maybe that is part of the reason?).
>>>>>>>>>>.
Just Speculation on my part, but perhaps because men tend not to internalize the issues they argue about with their wives (in general). Essentially, they don't really care as much-they say (or don't say) and forget.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

take the study with a grain of salt:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/magazine/16epidemiology-t.html?pagewanted=4&_r=1

6:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous commenter at 6:52: I followed your link and don't know what you're pointing out. Please explain.

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8:59 PM said....
As far as the difference between men and women, well, men have been bottling up their feelings for many generations and are used to it (sure we also die younger, maybe that is part of the reason?).


There reason men die first....is because they want to.

2:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whomever told you that we are dying younger is wrong. Our life expectancy has been the longest known since modern times. We live almost 77-78 years - normal life expectancy.

You can read more here: http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7171740

Married people live longer than those who are not. That is, in my opinion, due to one spouse watching out for the other, noting changes in health, well-being, etc., and raising the "red flag" (when and "if" to see the doctor).

Nagging is not the same as abuse. Men nag too, but in different ways (they say things differently).

In my years in cardiology, the men would not complain of having chest pain (denial?) vs. the woman who sees the doctor whether a condition is serious or not. Men don't pay attention to their body's internal signals as well as women do.

3:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you read the article carefully, it seems to be saying that it's better for the wife's health when the husband can learn how to bicker with warmth and not hostility---it is not saying that women should give as good as they get for the sake of their health. That theory would probably have to be tested with a different study.

4:33 PM  
Blogger Tzipporah said...

Might also have to do with how women cope with stress - often turning to junk food or other unhealthy things to soothe themselves, even hours after a stressful event. (I'm remembering some psych test about this from a couple of years ago)

5:34 PM  
Anonymous G said...

Yeah, stress kills.

2:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is one who will end your bickering!

His name is Jesus Christ and His atonement on the Cross, brings peace to us all!


Today receive Jesus, Yeshua, into your life.

I will be coming to the Five Towns soon to pray for revival in the Jewish community and the recognition of the One who while we were yet sinners died for us all.

Have a great Rosh Chodesh,

Rabbi Neal Wendrow
Dolton, Illinois

3:49 PM  
Anonymous G said...

Uh huh, sure.

A jewish man in his 30's who was still single and had no prospects to speak of, yeah, there was noooooooooo bickering in that household.

4:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from the Irish Jew
To Rabbi;
You of all people should know better.
To all; please read the following for a smile,(we all need a smile)
Now hear me out,
I always ask a Jewish person if they have read part II of the Bible, (it being 1/4 inch thick,)
yes the non-jews think this is sooo funny,
then I ask the non jews sooo..
have you read part I?? (it being 3/4 inch thick.) Can you follow and do all that is required?? I then say: Try it for a week at the busy time of the year, or a month at the slow time:):), tell me can you be as dedicated?? Can you really do what has been ask/told to you??
Most nonjews I think could not.

8:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8:05:
It is irrelevant whether non-jews can or can not follow those commandments as this is not part of their religion and so they have no reason to follow these commandments (other than the basic ethics related commandment of the "Old" Testament that is).

To the “Rabbi”:

If you are Christian and you think your religion is superior to mine and are just dying to convert me FINE. You have that right. I suppose. I guess it's OK for a missionary to approach me in the street and try to convince me that my religion is false and I will burn in hell for all eternity if I don't accept Jesus as my lord and savior. That's FINE. No problem. Love it.

Where I have a problem "RABBI" is with the load of crap you are selling.

Please spare me OK? Yes I know, 2,000 years ago Christianity was a sect of Judaism. But the FACT is we've both moved on. Stop trying to package Christianity as Judaism – it’s not. It never was and never will be. Again – I totally respect your beliefs and even your right to preach them and try to woo new recruits…Just stop with the false advertising.

Your entire “marketing plan” is based on falsehoods and trickery – trying to pick off uneducated Jews and ensnaring them with lies. Shame on the whole lot of you.

Be honest to others and to YOURSELF about who you really are.

11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My dear friends:

In 1978 I was a Jewish student at Stellenbosch University in South Africa, not far from my native city of Cape Town. I had attended Herzliya Day School as a child, although my family wasn't very observant. While at Stellenbosch members from the American group "Jews for Jesus" appeared on campus and they convinced me, after Jesus told me in a vision how much he loved me, that Yeshua was the authentic Moshiach of the Jewish people. Later Yeshua appeared to me and gave me semicha as a Messianic rabbi. A few years later I came to the United States where I've been busy preaching the gospel to the lost sheep of Israel, while there still is time!

Today receive Him!

Your Dear Brother,

Rabbi Neal

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071010/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_special_education

Orthomom,
I am wondering if the above linked article will have an impact on students in the Yeshiva system.

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On topic, sometimes not arguing can be its own argument. Other times, not arguing is natural because people have nothing to argue about. Not every couple needs to argue. What defuses argument before it happens? Acknowledging their argument before they think to make it.

Simply acknowledge your spouse's concerns. After a while, you'd be surprised at how eager they are to flesh out the rough edges when you do and spill the rest.

Oh yeah, don't be afraid to fulfill whatever roll you have to in order to draw them out. My wife is very much like a man in many of her emotional behaviors so if I have to play the female role at times and be emotional, then whatever. It's for a good cause that I swore I'd stick to before you-know-who.

Off topic, towards the messianic replies, I understand the impulse to proselytize when you've gotten such a rush from a life-changing epiphany, but I get life-changing epiphanies several times each and every day and if I went out to extol their virtues, I'd be hoarse constantly.

Calm down, and go talk to G-d. If you believe in the messiah then you have to remember the job of the messiah is to bring people back to the Father, and so, again, go talk with G-d just you and Him. He likes that.

2:28 PM  
Anonymous goyguy said...

To the "Rabbi"

I'm not Jewish and I find you very annoying. The Jewish readers who aren't laughing at you must find you very, VERY, annoying.

These J4J guys back at school in 1978, did they give you some "special" brownies or mushrooms and play a Pink Floyd album the night you were having this meeting with the Big Man? Inquiring minds want to know...

11:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brethren,

The fact that some are annoyed with me does not in any way diminish the truth that Yeshua did appear to me before I was saved, He did ordain me as a Messianic Rabbi, and he is the only way of Salvation for both Jew and Gentile alike!

Today receive the one who while we were yet sinners died for us!

Have a Great Shabbos,

Rabbi Neal Abraham Wendrow

2:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

doesnt seem like too many comments on topic, but just an fyi, this article actually missed half the point. psychologists generally believe whereas women both want to, and ought to, discuss their feelings and problems etc. men generally do not want to and ought not to discuss them as often. I'm not saying men shouldnt discuss feelings. rather, the point is that the common scene of a wife trying to have a discussion of an issue and a husband saying "ok, you're right, let's just drop it" occurs b/c women feel better (and as a result are actually healthier in the long run) if they discuss it but men, discussing these matters actually raises their blood pressure and causes them stress (bad for their health long run).

Dr. Pelcovitz (sp) has spoken about this numerous times in public speaking engagements and has made the point that if husbands and wives both understood this then they'd be able to better appreciate where their spouse is coming from. Out of this both could realize that it's important not to bottle up feelings, but also not to discuss them 24/7 and a compromise could occur.

4:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jesus appeared before me and told me that I should have a piece of cake. I like my vision more than yours.

Yum!

9:39 PM  
Anonymous G said...

The fact that some are annoyed with me does not in any way diminish the truth that Yeshua did appear to me before I was saved,
-------

Fair enough. I have not been privy to such an appearance up to this point. So, if my inclussion was desired/required/Whatever one has to wonder...why not?

3:34 PM  
Anonymous Okay said...

Part of the problem is assuming that men's and women's reactions are inherent, genetically programmed if you will. Instead, it is a question of "nurture vs. nature." In our society, for many centuries, men have been "trained" to believe that stoicism is the acceptable male position. Women have been allowed to "let it all hang out."

The differences in how men and women bicker have been culturally determined; they aren't carved in "genetic" stone. Both sides can change, if this changing will be of benefit to them. They have to believe, however, that there will be a benefit.

8:23 PM  
Blogger OOS said...

I encourage all who are interestd to read John Gottman's work on the subject of marital conflict.
He more than anyone else has studied the nuamnced interactions between husbands and wives.

He has found that, health concerns aside, it is essential for the survival of the marriage to quarrel-- provided it is done in the correct way.

Couples who do it correctly are largely able to sustain positive regard even during a fight.

But ayen sham for more.

5:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't you think you should be commenting on the library referendum?

10:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been on numerous blogs that deal with various topics. Never before have I seen a blog so poorly moderated as this one. Normally any bigotry or attempts to proselytize would be deleted. Not on this blog. Wake up OM.

11:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To a wanna-be Rabbi Neal Abraham Wendrow,
Boy would I like to meat with you fist to face. At least Hitler waned our lives, you want our souls.

11:49 AM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

I've been on numerous blogs that deal with various topics. Never before have I seen a blog so poorly moderated as this one.

Normally any bigotry or attempts to proselytize would be deleted. Not on this blog. Wake up OM.


"Never before have you seen a blog as poorly moderated as this one"? Then you obviously don't read very many blogs. Many blogs have a policy of not moderating comments at all. To boot, I have gotten many a critical response to what some readers feel is too heavy a hand when it comes to my moderation of comments - which goes to prove that I can't please everyone (nor do I expect to). I happen to read every comment that is posted here, and delete those I find damaging. That said, I don't see the bigotry you refer to, and regarding the proselytizing, I did consider deleting, but there were on-topic responses from commenters that I felt made the point as well as deleting the comment would.

11:57 AM  
Anonymous jew for jew said...

" Anonymous said...

To a wanna-be Rabbi Neal Abraham Wendrow,
Boy would I like to meat with you fist to face. At least Hitler waned our lives, you want our souls."

You want to PUNCH someone for his beliefs?? You have anger management issues. Just tell him why he's wrong. That's your right.

11:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brethren,

I do not wish to destroy any souls! I only want all of you to experience the joy of Jesus, that I have.

Won't you receive him today as Lord and Saviour?

Have an awesome Cheshvan,

Rabbi Neal Abraham Wendrow

6:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Rabbi" Neal,

Okay, I've received him. Thanks!

Can you stop posting now?

7:58 AM  
Anonymous Okay said...

All other halachic issues aside, Jews are forbidden to seek out converts. The J4J "rabbi" is seeking to convert readers to his "brand" of christianity. Ergo, he is not being Jewish when he does so. Therefore, J4J is a logical oxymoron. And yes, the whole idea is "-moronic."

11:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Friends:

It is not I who is posting. I have been commanded by Yeshua Himself to spread His Word! Therefore, when I post I do so on His behalf!

Your Dear Brother,

Rabbi Neal Abraham Wendrow

3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can't Jesus do his own posting? What does he need you for?

And if he did command you to do his posting, I mean no offense, but are you really the best he could do?

Your Dear Sister,

Anonymous

5:45 PM  
Anonymous Brooklyn said...

One thing that all you folks should be aware off is that these J4J mumzers are aiming at the most vonrable of the Jewish people, Jews in and from Russia. They also station themselves at the many of the points of interested visited by Russian Jewish tourists in Israel. I've had a few confrontations with them at Cesar's Bay as well.

8:26 PM  
Anonymous Okay said...

If you are going to channel spirits from the netherworld, could you at least try for one with a grasp of grammar? Your sentence should read "It is not I who AM posting."

11:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

huh? upwards of 75% of the posts here have nothing to do with the topic. by not deleting those, you encourage more people to post off-topic than on-topic and thereby discourage those who actually care to read what you write and discuss it. (for example i only read what you write once every week or two now b/c of all the garbage in the comments box).

3:18 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

Anonymous said...

huh? upwards of 75% of the posts here have nothing to do with the topic.


When I said "on-topic", I am referring to the topic of the proselytizing. I did not delete the comments that respond to that, as I feel they answer him better than deleting the original comments would.

by not deleting those, you encourage more people to post off-topic than on-topic and thereby discourage those who actually care to read what you write and discuss it.

I absolutely do not have a rule to delete off-topic comments, nor do I plan to implement such a policy in the future. People go off topic in real-life discussions every day, and I allow my commenters the same right in my comment section.

(for example i only read what you write once every week or two now b/c of all the garbage in the comments box).

Okay. Your choice.

3:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ltos of bickering going on here. L'Chaim! :)

12:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

According to you, I should die very soon because I (female) never express my feelings. When once in a while I dare to, my husband gives me such humiliating body language that I have learned to stifle all expression. I really hope that I die soon. It's not worth living. I only haven't rocked the boat because I have a daughter in shidduchim.

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