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Tuesday, June 27, 2006

Pulsa Denura Redux

Here we are again, one year later, with some extremist Rabbis in Israel still attempting to curse their elected officials with death via a "Pulsa Denura" ceremony.



Blogger Ayelet said...

I was at least glad to see the last line in the article, although it's hard to undo the damage done by such actions:

Such ceremonies are forbidden according to Jewish law, which condemns any type of “black magic” as irreligious.

9:00 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...

I agree, but this is still very distressing. Some say that this isn't a big deal because they are not directly calling for the death of the recipients of the curse, but isn't that just semantics? When Rabbis are publicly wishing someone dead, it's a problem.

9:13 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

If they're going to engage in such things, can't they at least focus on our real enemies? Khaled Mashaal, Ismail Haniyeh, heck - even Mahmoud Abbas. There are plenty of our enemies in the area who could use killing - no need for internal fratricide. Idiots.

9:31 PM  
Blogger orthomom said...


9:33 PM  
Blogger and so it shall be... said...

Horrible. Terrible. Irresponsible. Unconscionable.

....but who the heck would have believed that one year later Ariel Sharon would simply evaporate?

Add Creepy to the list.

9:34 PM  
Blogger Charlie Hall said...

'When Rabbis are publicly wishing someone dead, it's a problem. '

AFAIAC any rabbi who participates in such a ritual is not a rabbi.

11:54 PM  
Blogger Lori said...

Reminds me of the hasidic story about the last temptation of a kabbalist called The Descent Of Rakmiel. "The devil" will eventually claim his due from people who do these kinds of things.

1:25 AM  
Blogger DTC said...

While these do sound pretty creepy (and, for that matter, appear to be against what we would call "normative Orthodox Judaism", let's just keep in mind that the general meaning of "Cherem " (aka excommunication) is really a curse that should descend into the target's "RaMach" (248 in gematria) limbs and strike him dead.

After all, that is the point of excommunication - they want him removed from the living community but they aren't allowed to kill him; and while they wait for the curse to (hopefully? depending on one's POV) "work" they treat the subject as a complete social outcast without any rights or privileges attached to membership in a jewish community.

Of course, the only ceremony involved in invoking a Cherem was simply a public pronounciation by the court in the town, and not any of the theoreticaly kabbalistic practices involved in the "pulsa de'nura".

11:07 AM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

There's also the prohibition of being Mekallel another Jew, once we're getting all technical about this.

12:19 PM  
Blogger YMedad said...

this is just a Kach left-over PR gig (like Kach taking "credit" for Matisyahu see:

and the press plays it up. Efrat is a religious girl from Ofra and should know better.

4:44 PM  
Blogger DTC said...

somewhat anonymous -

The problem of Mekallel another Jew only applies to "`oseh ma`aseh `amcha." If someone had reached the point where the town court had to put him in cherem then he really wasn't `oseh ma`aseh `amcha any more. These weren't done lightly.

Nowadays, there are no functioning town batei din with the same level of communal governance so that the entire issue is moot. No one has the individual right to label someone else as not being `oseh ma`aseh `amcha.

Of course, if we wanted to have fun, we could start a discussion of whether the entire prohibition of mekallel a Jew is only a Lav for individuals or communal structure such as a town beis din as well...

3:27 PM  
Blogger Somewhat Anonymous said...

dtc - I'm fairly certain that it is a Machlokes as to whether you can be mekallel even someone who is not oseh maaseh amcha. I do know that I've heard directly from a fairly prominent Rav specifically not to say things like "y'mach sh'mo v'zichro" and so forth about other Jews, even those who are unquestionably Reshaim (to be on the safe side of said machlokes). The context of the discussion was dealing specifically with Israeli leaders too (Sharon, etc.).

9:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you read something like this in the Israeli media, which are controlled by the oligarchy that controls everything else economic over here, you have to be as distrustful as a Soviet citizen would have been of Pravda. These stories, as well as many other anti-religious articles in the press, earn the writer a bonus from the Reform movement, which has a lot of money in America and no population here. It uses its money to throw its weight around. The reason for the swift rise and fall of Shinui was connected to this as well. I still don't get how the Pensioners' Party suddenly got its seven seats, but dirty tricks abound. Go find these guys and find out. I bet it's all a pack of lies.

1:42 PM  

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