Five Towns Kashrut Controversy Update
A few updates on the Gourmet Glatt controversy:
1) A outspoken local Rav addressed the situation this Shabbat. Though he continued to maintain that buying from Gourmet Glatt is no problem from a Kashrut perspective, he expressed outrage at the owner's of Gourmet Glatt for their decision to employ a second Hashgacha and to tout this as an enhancement of the store's Kashrut standards, and said that the Vaad is considering its legal and halachic options. He was extremely critical of Gourmet Glatt (and the new Rav Hamachsir) for bringing in the second certification without first consulting with the Vaad.As he explained, the issues with Gourmet Glatt were not just along the lines of mislabeled chickens, but included other issues that he declined to specify. He said the Vaad had been working together with Gourmet Glatt to solve the issues the store had without putting it out of business when the store decided to contract the new Hashgacha.He seemed to view Gourmet Glatt's decision as a betrayal of the Vaad and a violation of the good faith that the Vaad was showing Gourmet Glatt. He also pointed out that it would be mistaken for consumers to assume that two Hashgachot are better than one (though his analogy, that eleven fingers isn't better than ten was not exactly the best).
2) This article, from a South Florida Jewish publication, talks about the increased precautions being taken by the kosher meat industry in the wake of the Monsey chicken scandal, and this statement from Empire caught my eye:
Previous posts on the subject: I, II, III, IV
1) A outspoken local Rav addressed the situation this Shabbat. Though he continued to maintain that buying from Gourmet Glatt is no problem from a Kashrut perspective, he expressed outrage at the owner's of Gourmet Glatt for their decision to employ a second Hashgacha and to tout this as an enhancement of the store's Kashrut standards, and said that the Vaad is considering its legal and halachic options. He was extremely critical of Gourmet Glatt (and the new Rav Hamachsir) for bringing in the second certification without first consulting with the Vaad.As he explained, the issues with Gourmet Glatt were not just along the lines of mislabeled chickens, but included other issues that he declined to specify. He said the Vaad had been working together with Gourmet Glatt to solve the issues the store had without putting it out of business when the store decided to contract the new Hashgacha.He seemed to view Gourmet Glatt's decision as a betrayal of the Vaad and a violation of the good faith that the Vaad was showing Gourmet Glatt. He also pointed out that it would be mistaken for consumers to assume that two Hashgachot are better than one (though his analogy, that eleven fingers isn't better than ten was not exactly the best).
2) This article, from a South Florida Jewish publication, talks about the increased precautions being taken by the kosher meat industry in the wake of the Monsey chicken scandal, and this statement from Empire caught my eye:
One of the country's major suppliers of kosher chickens, Empire Kosher, which has nothing to do with the rogue butcher, is responding to consumer fears by considering changing the way it packages chickens, Genack said.I'm not sure if this new policy proposal is a reaction only to the Monsey scandal, or to the mislabeling of chickens and sunsequent allegations of stores attempting to intentionally mislead customers that have surfaced in the wake of the local Gourmet Glatt story.
The company currently sells 30 chickens in a box of ice, but Empire is considering selling only chickens wrapped individually and not allowing butchers to open them, he said. Then the customer will buy the chicken, and the butcher can unwrap and cut it in front of the customer, he said.
Previous posts on the subject: I, II, III, IV
posted by orthomom at 3:46 PM
91 Comments:
The Sun Sentinel is not the Jewish paper in Florida. It is a one of the dailies.
It does own the Florida Jewish Journals, but this article ran in today's daily apper.
though his analogy, that eleven fingers isn't better than ten was not exactly the best)
That wasn't the Rav's analogy -- it was the analogy given by a Rishon. The Rav was simply repeating it. One could argue that the Rav made a bad choice in choosing such an analogy, but it wasn't his.
I believe two great hasgachos are better than one. Who wouldn't believe otherwise.Lets see two pair of eyes more to supervise kashruth if there was a question.
orthomom, your comments section will become much more insightful and useful if you can get the Bolenders to stop commenting anonymously every three seconds.
... or if you could somehow just tag each GG/Bolender comment accordingly
must vote must for MVP
OK, what happens if the Hasgocha #1 has a disagreement wioth Hashgocha #2?
(For sake of this thought, either hasgocha can 1 or 2)
Who wins? Lets say its not a matter of Kashrus, but a matter of Chosen Mishpat? Or, a matter of Chumros, but not Halacha?
Does one take the other to Bais Din?
Does the community sit around and wait?
Or, does this become an evening activity, where we can all go watch, like the bull fights in ancient Rome?
I'm not so sure 4 are eyes are better than 2, unless all 4 are connected to one head.
Its me Kamen posting not the Bolenders
Who is is "out spoken" Rav???
Why is it considered "out spoken" when a Rav is advising his Kehillah about the Kashrus situation in the neighborhood? What is wrong with that? Are you trying to make controversy out of that as well?
So let me attempt to get this straight, because I'm totally confused.
If a community has an established Vaad, and other Machshirim "infiltrate" this community Vaad, the non-Vaad Mashgichim (and their clients) have a "tremendous chutzpah" (not the words of a Rishon, Must, those were the words of an outspoken wonderful Rov).
Now, since at one time the Vaad HaRabbonim of Flatbush was the only show in that town before a handful of rogue restaurant owners rejected such Vaad on grounds of leniency and/or corruption (and only later mobilized other Rabbonim to form new kashrus organizations), logic - at least mine - would dictate that if, for example, a well-respected outspoken community Rov would hypothetically have a wealthy cousin who owns a food establishment in such neighborhood, that very same Rov would be venomously outraged at the terrible chutzpah perpetrated by his family. And that Rov would certainly never consume a Burger Delight (woops) or any other food served at an establishment without the seal of the community "Vaad" of Flatbush.
But that's really not fair to say, since we were always taught that the Vaad of Flatbush is really, really bad (not sure why - but Emunas "Chachamim" overrides any questions). The 5T Vaad, on the other hand, is portrayed as very, very good and, therefore, beyond reproach.
This, unfortunately, takes us back to square one. The premise is that a Vaad is always beyond reproach (hence, no outsiders in the 5 Towns allowed) unless, of course, certain select individuals determine that our Vaad is in fact really, really bad - like (L'havdil Elef Havdolos), say, the Vaad of Flatbush.
So who determines whether we have a Vaad of Flatbush scenario on our hands, in which case, I'm sure we can find a few rogue Rabbis to start a "Kehillah Krause," or whether the Vaad of the 5Ts is indeed untouchable/beyond reproach? Which brings us back to the pre-Krause era debate. Those who find it acceptable to bring in another Hechsher obviously believe the former, and believe checks and balances are not akin to a sixth toe, and those who perceive this GG act to be a disrespectful undermining of Rabbinic authority, obviously also believe that a bigger shoe size (or more shoes) does not necessarily translate into a more Kosher, better and fresher Tenderloin.
After all is said and done, you will all realize that this issue has been overblown and was merely a cover-up story leaked by a slippery individual. Here's the truth - you all need to learn OM's subtleties in juxtaposing her seemingly unrelated posts.
On Chol Hamoed, a few "Channie's" - after a few too many day trips with Daddy's credit card, suddenly realized they hit the max and were compelled to take the kids on a trip to GG instead of GA.
So, 8 inch boots and all (and by "all," I mean slits, tight skirts, a gym body that you would follow to any cash register and, of course a shaitel), piled the kids into the Bugaboo and Lexus Jeep and headed to grocery shop. Down aisle 6, despite numerous prior warnings from the Vaad about shelf height limitations, the Empire chicken was stacked at a level at which even the standard 6 inch boot heel could not reach without a stretch. Two Channie's – salivating over the same piece of white meat – simultaneously extended themselves and caused a scene which would make movie popcorn seem Kosher.
Without getting into graphic detail, body parts began shifting, stringy undergarments were slightly revealed and two Channie's - for a brief moment - appeared as one tangled Channie.
At that moment, RYE, who also was apparently desperate for activity on Chol Hamoed, peeped his head down aisle six only to witness what appeared to be an act of Basar B'chlalav. As you can all understand, this is intolerable in our community (particularly after the Grape Juice on the floor incidents last Pesach in GG which rendered it impossible for the Rav Hamachshir to stand in aisle six without a Grape Juice in hand), and it is incumbent on every storeowner to appoint tighter Channie patrols in their stores. GG failed to do so, and the rest can be (but was not) left to the imagination.
Ironically, these very same women were accidentally photographed during the pro-Israel rally in Cedarhurst Park a few months back when they mistakenly thought the crowd in the Park was yet another Red Shul clubbing event. I guess the floppy hats weren't so noticeable from a distance.
So there you have it, the Five Towns in a cyber-nutshell. From reading this blog, you would think Vegas residents regularly visit us when they want to kick back and enjoy some Channie-candy.
Good night, all. Gotta rise early to go grocery “shopping.” See y’all in Aisle 6….
That was priceless
the only rabbis in the community who aren't members of the vaad are Rabbi Reisman (hardly a gourmet glatt sympathizer) and Rabbi Moshe Weinberger (because he won't get involved in community activities, only shul activities). SO I don't see where this rogue vaad is coming from.
"Why is it considered "out spoken" when a Rav is advising his Kehillah about the Kashrus situation in the neighborhood? What is wrong with that? Are you trying to make controversy out of that as well? "
11:09 PM
ahh, if it were only the Rav advising on Kashrus, We would not have a problem. PAY ATTENTION BLOGGERS. If there were Kashrus issues our Vaad would have closed them down.. Is the Store still open? Enough said.
Enough said. With all the anti semites in this world why do yedim fight amongst eachother. We must stay together and have shalom bais
1:48.....as Orthomom would say "I'm Cracking Up"...great stuff
Shalom Bayis is one thing.....this is all about business!!
Please Vaad reps and business reps keep off this blog!!!
I was there for the speech - it was PRICELESS. You had never heard the Red Shul so quiet before!
"talmid said...
orthomom, your comments section will become much more insightful and useful if you can get the Bolenders to stop commenting anonymously every three seconds. "
9:30 PM
How interesting!!
First the Vaad wants to close down GG for non-kashrus issues. Now you want to limit their free speech! I live in the Five Towns, which I think is still in America..Bracha66
Just to continue a thread from last post...can someone please link up the old Cake Lady post please. It would be very much appreciated.
I'm surprised that OM didn't mention the quote from the END of the speech...
"The Rabbi's are not cowards, and they are not chicken"
Glad to see that My Favorite anonymous poster is back.
Are all other Rabbis other than (Weinberger and Reisman) on the Vaad. Is Rosner? Topp? Leibowitz? Maryles?
"So there you have it, the Five Towns in a cyber-nutshell. From reading this blog, you would think Vegas residents regularly visit us when they want to kick back and enjoy some Channie-candy."
You're an idiot!
"It was not an issue of Kashrus in Gourmet Glatt but that the store was ripping off their consumers by selling a product as something that it was not and charging a higher price for it."
If this is true Consumer Affairs and not the Vaad should be investigating.
Reisman has no constituency in FR save a few koolaid drinkers in the Agudah.It's time to stand up to this bully.
Speaking of bully's .It's time to tell Eisen to get out of town.he is trying to destroy a business which this community desperately needs.
posted by Yehuda Shain at 8:29 AM 0 comments
Friday, October 20, 2006
What is ARK Hashgocha (Rabbis Reisman & Ullman)?
Episode # 1-
A chusen contacts me (1-2 years ago) re giving a hashgocha at his wedding, the caterer is from Flatbush under ARK Rabbis Reisman & Ullman. I called the Caterer, among the questions "do you rent dishes etc when you cater? yes, always,can I have the name & number of the rental agency please?, & he rattles off the name & number without even looking it up"
I called the rental company to ascertain their kashrus standards- lo & behold they are a “treif” rental agency, & the ARK Caterer has been renting from them for the longest time.
I called Rabbi Reisman from ARK to inquire about the caterer, Rabbi Reisman says “as long as it’s under my Hashgocha you can be assured that everything is all right & you shouldn’t question it” , That sounded too good to me, so I ask how long do you have the Hashgocha? Rabbi R, says about 3-4 years, I ask did you check with the previous certifier “the Vaad of Flatbush” why they discontinued the supervision? He responded NO, there isn’t any reason for me to check.
I tell him by the way are you aware that the caterer is using dishes from a treif rental company? Rabbi R, says he isn’t a caterer, he is a take-out place only. End of conversation.
I call another Flatbush certifier, “do you know this specific establishment in Flatbush?” he says sure, the Vaad dropped him as they couldn’t properly control his Milchig/fleishig etc. so I ask isn’t he just a take out place? The certifier responded, Oh no he is a caterer that also does some take out also. I called the Chusen to inquire “did you ever see any parties that he caterers” he say sure he does a beautiful job”.
I called Rabbi Ullman (Rabbi Reisman’s partner in ARK) who visits the place weekly, I ask him did you ever kasher or had a mashgiach at any of the places that Ruthies caterers? Rabbi Ulman responded NO I did not-but I thought he only does take-out not catering (I am in shock-that after 3 ½ years they never figured out that he is a caterer) but I’m on the way to there now & I’ll let you know. I never heard from him again.
Now I hear that the game is as follows: The caterer preparers everything under ARK (Reisman/Ullman) and sends it out a s a drop-off to a caterer. Now this so called Take-out place does the catering not as Ruthies that is under ARK but a new caterer under nobody. So the customer knows the food is prepared under ARK, but he doesn’t know that it is served on treif dishes out of a not koshered kitchen without a Mashgiach. Note: Rabbi Ulman is also the Mashgiach for Cong Bais Tefila (Rabbi Breslauer) in Monsey that gave the Hashgocha to Shevach (Moshe Finkel) in Monsey.
Episode #2:A few weeks ago I was doing an affair with an OU caterer out of Sharei Tova Shul in Queens (an OU caterer). An ARK caterer (Pavilion 39-Greenwald’s) sends a fellow to kasher the kitchen as they were going to do an in-house wedding at Sharei Tova & using the OU Sharei Tova kitchen.
I ask the fellow “what type of meats do you use under ARK?” he says Alle & Rubashkin, I told him we are only using ALLE this week so why are you kashering?
The OU Mashgiach called Rabbi Reisman to inquire “why are you kashering” you use all & Rubashkin, we only use Alle? The OU Mashgiach inquired from R’ Reisman what meat & poultry is being used at this party? He responded “I’ll check, He notified the OU Mashgiach that he can’t find out because the frum owner is in Europe & only the non-jew chef would know & he isn’t in the place now. The OU Mashgiach notified Rabbi Reizman that he will have to kasher after the ARK party unless they double wrap all of the pans going into the oven.
Rabbi Reisman stated that he doesn’t require a Mashgiach not at the caterer’s commissary & not on the outside off-premise job “as he relies completely on the frum owner” (who is in Europe at the time) so there is no mashgiach on the job either. At this affair the son of the owner was there. The prepackeged salads they were using was Dole With Rabbi Gruber & KAJ, The OU Mashgiach pointed out to the caterers son in 2 random bags that there are bugs, the son took out the bugs and gave all of the 5 cases to the workers to use without checking it further.
The chef (a non-Jew) came to the job with his own tool-box of knives, forks etc. The OU Mashgiach asked the chef “you can’t bring in tools unsealed from the Rabbi where you worked last job” .The OU Mashgiach pointed it out to the caterer’s son, who asked the chef why aren’t the sealed? OH!, the Rabbi forgot to seal it. The caterer’s son let him use the knives, etc without so much as kashering them “I trust the chef”.
Also the vegetables including celery & parsley (which are known to have insects) were cursory rinsed by the non-Jewish workers without being checked by any one for insects.
This is in response to why I don’t rely on ARK Hashgocha, I know many more episodes e.g. taking over hashgochas in Passaic, Brooklyn & other areas without so as ascertaining why the other certifier dropped it.
Yudel Shain-Cheshvin 5767
"If this is true Consumer Affairs and not the Vaad should be investigating."
Sounds like the Bolenders are back on the blog.
If vaad determines that the storeowners are dishonest, then they have plenty of reasons to be concerned about the kashrus. The unfortunate reality is that no hechsher is foolproof and they all rely somewhat on the storeowner's credibility. And all of the chumrot and enforcements in the world are not going to change that reality.
"It's time to tell Eisen to get out of town.he is trying to destroy a business which this community desperately needs."
LOL! Why does Bolender think his business is so desparately needed? Are we supposed to believe he's doing us a chessed by charging the highest prices (not to mention the various alleged fraudulent practices)? Does the community "desparately need" 5 of these stores so much more than 4 of them?
Bolender and his crew would have far more credibility if they didn't hang around here touting how much the community "desparately needs" them.
"LOL! Why does Bolender think his business is so desparately needed? Are we supposed to believe he's doing us a chessed by charging the highest prices (not to mention the various alleged fraudulent practices)? Does the community "desparately need" 5 of these stores so much more than 4 of them?"
Perhaps this blogger needs a basic lesson in economics.. Competition ( in this case 5 stores) ensures competitive pricing.. If GG was priced so out of line with their competition, no one would shop there. They would not have expanded. Nor would they have invested so much in our community. As a mom of 3 with one more on the way, I personally find the prices to be in line and sometimes a lot lower than Brach or supersol. The main reason I go there is cleanliness and great cashiers! Bracha66
They may be the cleanest, but they certainly don't offer competitive pricing. And without competitive pricing, they don't offer the benefits of competition.
...and so what if you a few ounces of extra water in your meat package - it keeps the meat fresher
So if I have it right Rabbi Reismans extra extra special most very kosher supervision better than anyone else uses Rabbi Ullman as his partner and chief most reliable mashgiach. And thats the same guy who was supervising Shevach and said that it was ok to buy chickens there!! hmmmmm so much for ark reliable kashrus
"Why is it considered "out spoken" when a Rav is advising his Kehillah about the Kashrus situation in the neighborhood? What is wrong with that? Are you trying to make controversy out of that as well?"
This is not a Kashrus issue this is one Rav's personal opinion that he is spouting to the Kehillah. A Rav must be scrupulous to separate his own personal opinion from what is Halachicly correct or proper from a Torah perspective. And I am also not a Bolender just a community member who is fed up with controversy that is commonly caused by a particular Rav who was not originally part of the Mikvah committee but managed to halt the construction due to his personal opinion, and caused some severe medical situations for some people who waited to seek medical attention till Motzei Shabbos because he put the word out that no one could call Hatzolah on Shabbos.
This is basically a closeknit and cohesive community. Why is it that just one Rav keeps causing divissivness and controversy in the community? Maybe it isn't RYE at all that is trying to run the Bolenders out of town, maybe it is this particular RAV.
My dear anonymous in aisle "6", there is only one thing wrong with your theory, RYE wans't in town on Chol Hamoed, otherwise, your scenario is quite pausable!
Anon at 3:59.
I think you are confusing this "outspoken" Rav with someone else.
somebody sais that rav moshe weinberger is not a member of the vaad. but his shul is. they raise money for the vaad, and only vaad caterers are allowed inside of the shul to cater.
the vaad is bad. rabbi reisman is bad. rabbi eisen is worse.
read yudel shains blog about the ark supervision.
somebody has to dismantle the vaad of the five towns.
put a wall and seperate us from far rockaway. give far rock rabbi reisman, and give us an ehrlicha rav.
written by a disgusted five towns redient.
"It was not an issue of Kashrus in Gourmet Glatt but that the store was ripping off their consumers by selling a product as something that it was not and charging a higher price for it."
I understood that the chicken mislabeled as "Empire" was really a "KAJ". So actually it was a more expensive chicken, GG wasn't ripping anyone off it was simply a mistake where GG was actually losing money, so could you please stop playing "judge and jury"?
Do you see why I keep saying that someone's personal opinion has started a relay of Loshon Horah without the basis of actual fact? The evidence was never produced, the person who "allegedly" bought the chicken has never publicly come forward, the receipt of sale was never shown to "GG" as proof that this actually happened and that it was purchased from their store, and to top it all off, you are talking about GG ripping off the consumer when the chicken in question was actually said to have been a KAJ which is more expensive than an Empire chicken.
How much more can we rehash this stupid story that was started to ruin this family and force them to "sell their heritage"? Someone mentioned that this was a witch hunt of RYE, does this begin to sound like someone's personal witch hunt or vendetta against a family that one RAV doesn't like?
Again, is it fair that one Rav's personal opinion should be worth enough in the eyes of enough trouble makers in the community that they will allow him to force this family out of business?
Can anyone out there find a Halachic stand for forcing a family out of business? There is no legal or halachic basis for this, and it is totally wrong and unwarranted. It is a total Busha for this community and a disgrace if we allow this to continue.
What choice did they have but to protect their livelihood and investments, but to take on an additional pair of eyes and ears to bear witness to what is going on between them and the VAAD. Of course RYE is insulted and up in arms about this. Wouldn't you be if someone brought in an eyewitness to stop you from harrassing him?
Anon of 3:59pm:
You are not much of an authority on what is "Halachicly [sic] correct or proper from a Torah perspective." Bashing a respected Rav in public. Real classy -- and completely outside the bounds of halacha and the "Torah perspective." Besides the fact that what you have said is untrue, it is outrageous for you to have done so in this forum. Yom Kippur has concluded - you have approximately 330 days to seek mechilah from this Rav and anyone else you have maligned on this site.
OM, please delete posts of this kind. Providing helpful information to the community is virtuous and I appreciate your efforts to do so. But allowing your blog to become a vessel for unfiltered lashon hara and, in this case, motzie shaim ra is simply not responsible. It would take you about a minute to remove these posts. I respectfully suggest that you do so.
All, I think this blog would be a better place for everyone -- its author and the community of commentators -- if we could refrain from personal attacks. I enjoy this blog but have found the exchanges of the last few days to be particularly unfortunate.
back to the issue- consumers being ripped off by profiteers.
I think if GG wants to make good to all the consumers, let them offer a $200 gift certificate to all families. that would give me a better feeling about them.
I spend about $400 a week there and i am sure they are profitting at least 25% off that.
I know if i shopped in Brooklyn, i would save at least $100 a week. Wh yshouldwe pay these crazy prices just because of where we live?
"The Rabbi's are not cowards, and they are not chicken""
I'm glad to hear that but are they blinded by the beard and peius like the mashgichim in Monsey? Just because RYE looks more frum than the Bolenders, doesn't make him right.
Also I would like to know why Rabbi Resiman dislikes the Bolenders and where he gets his information about them from? Has he hired a PI? Has he also investigated the owners of SuperSol, Brachs and KosherWorld? Is this just the first in a series of store closing. Maybe we are going to be taken over by Chasidim, who don't use Hatzolah on Shabbos. Or maybe we will be like New Square and men and women will have to walk on different sides of the street.
If we all have to follow just one Rav's opinion, then who knows what will happen.
as the old proverb says
WHERE THERE IS SMOKE,THERE IS FIRE!
Add the gas $$ and you are right back to what you be spending at GG.
Enjoy your shopping.
We need a cleanup in Aisle 6 !!!
LOL! Why does Bolender think his business is so desparately needed? Are we supposed to believe he's doing us a chessed by charging the highest prices (not to mention the various alleged fraudulent practices)? Does the community "desparately need" 5 of these stores so much more than 4 of them?
Bolender and his crew would have far more credibility if they didn't hang around here touting how much the community "desparately needs" them"
This is too hilarious, why do you keep thinking this is the Bolenders? Do you really think no one else cares about having this store open? You are ridiculous. Firstly, they aren't holding a gun to anyone's head, so they aren't ripping anyone off. If you can't afford the prices here, which aren't any more expensive than Supersol, then maybe you shouldn't be living here, or you should be shopping at Kosherworld in Far Rockaway, after all no one took away your freedom of choice.
Secondly, in my opinion, it is desperately needed. It is the cleanest, most pleasant store with the nicest employees, and the nicest quality meats,produce and other products. If I don't have the convenience of this store I might ask Landau's of Boro Park to deliver. Can you tell I am a Brooklyn transplant? And I was happy to move into a community of peace and tranquility not this kind of disgusting back stabbing.
I asked the mashgiach that have been there for years he says no kashruth violations!!
One second, anyone is open for attacks except for a Rav? Is that it? A Rav has a right to run someone out of town and we have to keep our mouths shut and not comment on our opinions of his opinion? We should have that blog removed and ask mechilah immediately even though his name wasn't mentioned?
OH, I get it, a Rav can do whatever he wants, even give bad hashgacha under the vise of a "reliable hechsher" and get away with it because he is a "holy Rav" and the rest of us should shut up.
Now that's fair, I wouldn't call that censorship at all. That is truly freedom of speech and freedom to practice one's own religion all balled up into one. What religion was it again? If I recall correctly my relgion didn't allow ANYONE TO BE HUMILIATED IN PUBLIC WHETHER THEY WERE A RAV OR NOT!!!!!!!!!! BEING FORCED OUT OF BUISNESS IS QUITE A HUMILIATION.
Rah Rah Rah!
Gourmet Glatt is the best!
We love Gourmet Glatt!
... better than all the rest!
Gourmet Glatt is the cheapest!
Gourmet Glatt is the cleanest!
Rah Rah Rah!
How would we survive without Gourmet Glatt?
Gourmet Glatt gives so much back to the community!
Gourmet Glatt is run by the most honest, G-d fearing people!
Gourmet Glatt deserves support from everyone in the community!
Rah Rah Rah!
How about a community rally in Cedarhurst Park?
RAGE AGAINST THE RABBIS!
RALLY FOR GOURMET GLATT!
Gourmet Glatt represents everything we stand for and we must stand up for their right to survival!
Gourmet Glatt represents the best of the 5 Towns - we must stand up and support their premium pricing!
Gourmet Glatt made sacrifices for us when the 5 Towns was a wasteland and no one wanted bring kosher food to the 5 Towns. Now they need us to support their expansion - we must not stay silent!
... cleaner than the competition
... cheaper than the competition
... better servuce than the competition
... better meat than the competition
I'm starting to worry about the competition surviving, considering how many people are lining up to support GG
(Sorry, I had to get that out of my system)
Rabbis Rosner, Topp, Maryles, and Lebowitz are all on the vaad.
"One second, anyone is open for attacks except for a Rav? Is that it? A Rav has a right to run someone out of town and we have to keep our mouths shut and not comment on our opinions of his opinion? We should have that blog removed and ask mechilah immediately even though his name wasn't mentioned?
OH, I get it, a Rav can do whatever he wants, even give bad hashgacha under the vise of a "reliable hechsher" and get away with it because he is a "holy Rav" and the rest of us should shut up.
Now that's fair, I wouldn't call that censorship at all. That is truly freedom of speech and freedom to practice one's own religion all balled up into one. What religion was it again? If I recall correctly my relgion didn't allow ANYONE TO BE HUMILIATED IN PUBLIC WHETHER THEY WERE A RAV OR NOT!!!!!!!!!! BEING FORCED OUT OF BUISNESS IS QUITE A HUMILIATION."
One might justify criticizing the actions of one or two rabbis, but the vaad is backed by almost every orthodox rabbi in the community, who have been meeting to discuss these issues and to resolve them as a group.
Does anyone genuinely think it makes sense to discount the concensus of just about all of the orthodox rabbis in the community that there are concerns regarding the kashrus and/or ownership of this store. While the rabbis may or may not have decided that the store should be sold or that the hechsher should be removed - there's no question whether they have found some fault on the part of the owners.
Anon at 6:29pm (or should I call you, "Great Defender of Free Speech and of Humiliated Grocery Stores"):
The point is not that Rabbanim are immune from criticism. The point is that you are lecturing a Rav about adhering to halacha while utterly flouting it yourself. In addition, you have your facts completely wrong.
But thank you Great Defender. In one day, I have learned so much about the First Ammendment and the Shulchan Aruch at the same time.
FOr those who think this is an issue of Far ROckaway rabbis versus the more reasonable five towns rabbis, you are mistaken. Whatever the vaad does I am sure Rabbis billet, Hain, and Teitelbaum will be very involved. To think otherwise is to assume that these rabbonim with many years experience are a bunch of yes men.
FOr those who think this is an issue of Far ROckaway rabbis versus the more reasonable five towns rabbis, you are mistaken
Who says the 5T Rabbis are in synch with the community-where do they send their kids to school-Billet is moderate only in comparison to some of the others.
is to assume that these rabbonim with many years experience are a bunch of yes men
I don't blame them-there is nothing personally gained by staneding up to the mafia-they can make your life miserable.
How about a community rally in Cedarhurst Park?
RAGE AGAINST THE RABBIS!
RALLY FOR GOURMET GLATT
I've been going to Brach's cheaper, easier parking-but if GG stands up to the Vaad I might just start buying there..
Enough of this stupidity. I'm making an order from Peter Luger...
must vote must for MVP
Must...would that be the Peter Lugers in Monsey??
is there anybody who was at rabbi reisman's shul on shabbos and can tell us what he said this week? I'm not looking to hear what you heard he said. I would like to hear ir from someone who was there
i'm in for a rally.
save the five towns.
rally in cedarhurst park.
even better than a rally. since we all donate to the vaad. our shuls force us to give, its part of the membership fees.
lets do something more fearful to those people.
open up the books. yes, i said it. lets have them open their books, and show the kehilla how they are spending our money.
who needs eisen at over $120,000.00 a year. this is an outcry.
oust eisen now. rally later.
before he controls you every move. he might not like you color coordinated shirt, and tell everybody that they cant do bussines with you.
he might not like you landscaping. its not fit for a ben torah. he will tell you that you have four weeks to sell your house or you will be put in chaerim.
you see were i'm going.
vaad=taliban
eisan=osama
reisman=saddam hussein
the five towns=usa army
lets clean up the five towns and bring democracy back.
um, just to clear up any confusion? The rav OM is referring to here is NOT Rabbo Reisman, it is Rabbi Feitman.
Rabbi Eisen is not the problem here. It was the community who wanted him brought in to begin with when the old vaad was broken up. He has done the job that he was appointed to do and about his salary- most of the 25 year old shnuks moving into Cedarhurst are making more than he is. The problem is Reisman seems to be threatened by him and imposing his own chumras on the vaad establishments. How long are we going to out frum each other. Why stop here? Why not limit shechita to Satmar Shechita and require that the stores only sell cholov yisrael and pas yisrael. Where does it stop. If an establishment that is under the Vaad was doing something that it should not have been doing with the meat, regardless if they were making more money or less money on the transaction, the vaad has a right to pull the hashgacha. So stop blaming Rabbi Eisen and start blaming the store and owner that misled its customers.
"One might justify criticizing the actions of one or two rabbis, but the vaad is backed by almost every orthodox rabbi in the community, who have been meeting to discuss these issues and to resolve them as a group.
Does anyone genuinely think it makes sense to discount the concensus of just about all of the orthodox rabbis in the community that there are concerns regarding the kashrus and/or ownership of this store. While the rabbis may or may not have decided that the store should be sold or that the hechsher should be removed - there's no question whether they have found some fault on the part of the owners."
The meetings does not consist of "ALL" the rebbeim in the community, nor are ALL the rebbeim in the community on the VAAD. However, it would be interesting to know who actually is, and which rebbeim were at the session when it was decided that the store should be sold. Who voted for the sale and who voted against the sale, was it a majority vote or did it pass by one. Because you are assuming that everyone agreed on this and no one should ever "ASSUME". Also it would be interesting to know how many Rebbeim where there? Was it a matter of 3 people making this decision or 25?
"The point is not that Rabbanim are immune from criticism. The point is that you are lecturing a Rav about adhering to halacha while utterly flouting it yourself. In addition, you have your facts completely wrong.
But thank you Great Defender. In one day, I have learned so much about the First Ammendment and the Shulchan Aruch at the same time.
7:04 PM"
So did I, I also learnt that those in Glass Houses shouldn't throw stones, and when one starts a controversy things are going to come out that one might not want others to know. This blog has offered a wealth of information about a lot of individuals and players behind the scenes and it hasn't done much good for the respect of any of them. If you want the L"H to stop, it has to stop cold turkey in regard to all the players involved, not just the ones that mean the most to YOU!!
As far as facts go, you only know what you know and thats it. I know what I know, and everyone else either knows what they know or are just guessing, that is why we keep arguing or yelling, or fighting back here on this line. That's why some of us are really angy, that's why some of us are real defenders, while others are just spreading more loshon hora because no one except the "players" really know the facts; everything else is just conjecture, speculation or hearsay.
Your argument would work if it was a Vaad Harabonim, like in Queens and Brooklyn, but this is only a vaad hakashrut, and the local rabbi's who were previously running the org., decided to hire hire an alleged expert to run the vaad. To call the rabbis members is a msinomer, do they pay dues? is there a secret initation cermony? The vaad is no longer a "membership" org. it is a community supported hasgacha, of which concerned community rabbis support. The rabbi has ceded their authority to RYE, and he runs the show. Maybe he has a board of directors or trustess which might include the rabbis, but that is it.
"Rabbi Eisen is not the problem here. It was the community who wanted him brought in to begin with"
I don't remember being asked about RYE? I don't remember seeing his resume or his credentials. Who said the community asked for him specifically? I am a member of the community and I certainly wouldn't have approved $120,000 specially as a part time job!
As far as facts go, you only know what you know and thats it. I know what I know, and everyone else either knows what they know or are just guessing, that is why we keep arguing or yelling, or fighting back here on this line.
So it is about time that everyone who is involved come clean
"um, just to clear up any confusion? The rav OM is referring to here is NOT Rabbo Reisman, it is Rabbi Feitman. "
Are you saying that Rabbi Feitman, who announced last week that he was shopping in GG without a problem now says it was a chutzpah for GG to take on an additional Hechsher because the VAAD is trying to force them to sell?
"So it is about time that everyone who is involved come clean"
I'll agree to that, I would like to know the truth all the way around. There were a lot of allegations brought up here, including those of Mr. Shain's and I would like all those issues addressed. I would like to know the truth about Kashrus, the VAAD, RYE, GG, RR, ARK, SS, and so on. In addition, I still believe that every store that cooks or bakes should have a masgiach temidi. Every store should have the same rules. I would really like to hear from the rest of you how you feel about that issue. Forget about the GG issue for a minute.
Do you or don't you thing as a consumer that the Kashrus level in each restaurant or take out or supermarket should be on the same level and they each should have the same stringent rules? As a consumer I want to have the same peace of mind no matter which store I shop in. How do the rest of you feel about that?
All of the local rabbis with very few exceptions were at the meeting. My rabbi wouldn't tell me any specifics about the meeting other than to say "as long as Gourmet Glatt is under the vaad it is absolutely kosher", but he did mention that there were 30 local rabbis at the meeting.
As far as I understand it most of the local rabbonim were at the meeting as well as a very well respected attorney.
The problem is Reisman seems to be threatened by him and imposing his own chumras on the vaad establishments
You couldn't be more wrong. rabbi Reisman sets the standards of his recommended list only for his own congregation. He has saqid that countless times. As a matter of fact, the reason he is not on the vaad is because he specifically does not want to impose his higher standards on teh whole community who might not feel they are necessary.
You should try to know what you are talking about before you type. It helps.
Reisman tells the stores that if they don't follow his chumras none of his congregants will patronize those establishments.
Reisman and chumras
who are you kidding? its not about chumras. its about money and power. are you all so naive? ask reisman if he has instituted even one single chumra in his perfered stores. better yet ask the store owners.
kashrut issues are usually about money. Our local va'ad refused to certify a new market/restaurant because they were afraid it would take business away from the established markets/chinese food restaurants. So, the new place doesn't have local hechsher, it is under the OU. An excellent move, I must say, as no one can reasonably challenge the hechsher. Getting a second hechsher when the first one is threatening to revoke their hechsher is just good sense and refusal to buckle under kosher blackmail.
Wrong.Reisman is not on the VAad because even he recognizes that since he is in the kashrot busines his being in the vaad would be a conflict of interest.
Just so everyone here knows, there are several Rabbi's including many listed above who are are aware of this blog and read what you right. Although you are anonymous you should still be embarassed.
Don't the "Rabbis" have anything better to do than to read this blog?
The meeting took place at Beth Shalom, if that tells you anything.
"he specifically does not want to impose his higher standards on teh whole community who might not feel they are necessary."
Check with Mr. Shain about what he considers higher standards!
Well maybe its a good thing that we have a blog that they can read so they can hear what we can't say out in public. We are frustrated and hurt by some of the Rabbis and what we see as hypocritical on their parts.
We expect them to be better role models for us and our children to follow and fodder for our blogs and fuel for our loshon horah. We are bothered by the double standard of "de rebbe meig".
If I had the guts I would ask every rabbi standing in judgment of Bollender this question while attached to a lie detector.
Do you report the money you get for selling the chometz on you tax return?
I have worked in the food industry for years. The place that I worked in was under the O U. The Vaad of Flatbush came in and threatened us with putting us out of business if we did not join them. I could not beleave what I heard. As someone who has worked in the industry I honestly beleave that the Vaads have to much power and some times act as hoods. Now that I am connected with the five towns Vaad nothing has improved, if anything, it has gotten worse.
Lets boycot the VAAD. Lets stop shopping in any store under the Vaad. They have to much power!
Just like we need compitision in business maybe so does the Vaad need some compitision.
Boy what have they done to a really nice religion!!!!
Very nice! I like it. what is a smartphone
Dear moderator,
please post a new blog concerning what happened in Gourmet Glatt recently. Approximately two weeks ago there was mistakenly allowed by the mashgiach of the five towns the brand "bushs best" original baked beans which has in its ingrediants bacon meat, versus the vegetarian brand which is certified kosher. The outrage is that the Vaad of 5 towns has not alerted the community of this mishap, and for those who purchased this brand must kasher their dishes and utensils immediately bec. of the treif meat.
Instead the school steered a middle path, allowing contact (and thus providing a foto cewek bugil way for him to come to teshuvah) while refusing to publicize him (by appearing in newsletters etc cerita sex. Thanks.
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