Post-Shabbos GG Update
I would have been happy to shelve my coverage of the Gourmet Glatt drama, but I saw something in this week's Jewish Press that made me sit up and take notice. In a short "article" on page 41 about the store losing its Vaad certification, an attorney who identifies himself as "representing the Bolender family" says something that I found extremely interesting:
Perhaps someone should mention to the Bolenders that their attorney seems to have done them more harm than good with his statement.
"There was never an issue of kashrus in the store," stated Martin Cohen, Esq., representing the Bolender family. "The store was and remains kosher." He explained that the actual problems stemmed from the Vaad's growing stringencies and additional requirements over the last few years, which co-owner mark Bolender felt went beyond the necessary requests. "He felt that the Vaad was adding and changing things that were considered okay for all the previous years. The Vaad maintained that either Gourmet Glatt listen to all their requirements or they must sell the business."Pardon me??? Basically, the spokesman for the Bolender family admits that the owners of Gourmet Glatt "felt" that when it came to Kashrut, the Vaad's "growing stringencies and additional requirements...went beyond the necessary requests"????? Hello? Does anyone, after reading that, any more believe the Bolenders' original allegation against the Vaad, that this was all simply a matter of a "personality conflict" gone terribly wrong? I have to say, if there was a choice to be made between what aspects of Kosher supervision are "necessary" and what aren't, I am far more inclined to trust the judgment of a group represented by almost every Rav in the community than that of a local store owner. And the arrogance of any store owner that thinks otherwise is simply astounding.
Perhaps someone should mention to the Bolenders that their attorney seems to have done them more harm than good with his statement.
posted by orthomom at 6:26 PM
181 Comments:
....or maybe the JP is just demonstrating, yet again, its ufortunate inability to report anything with a shred of sccuracy or credibility.
just a thought.
I wouldn't bet against the store on this one. The Vaad, like any bureaucracy, wants new rules and regulations which only it can enforce. It's a classic make-work shake down.
Yeah, but did you read page 31 of the JP????
If GG will not accept what is demanded of everybody else-take away their hashgacha-there must be conjsistent standards that everyone must meet GG AND everyone else.
What is good policy for a Vaad to demand is a separate issue-but once policy is stated everyone must follow the standards which must ve enforced in a non discriminatory manner
MUST Gum Addict said...
Yeah, but did you read page 31 of the JP????
Yes, I did. Any relation? :)
Anonymous said...
....or maybe the JP is just demonstrating, yet again, its ufortunate inability to report anything with a shred of sccuracy or credibility.
Are you saying the guy was misquoted? As he's an attorney, if that's the case, I would expect to see a correction in this coming week's JP. I will, of course, update if there is one.
Anonymous said...
I wouldn't bet against the store on this one. The Vaad, like any bureaucracy, wants new rules and regulations which only it can enforce. It's a classic make-work shake down.
Are you saying I should bet against the Vaad? Sorry, not happening.
I cant believe OM reads the JP. I would think it would be below her.
Anonymous said...
I cant believe OM reads the JP. I would think it would be below her.
I read just about everything, basically.
I'm saying you should wake up to the possibility that the Vaad, far from being the wise men you inagine, may be a bunch of blowhard shlumphs who are concerned with expanding their sphere of infuence, with store owners and consumers paying the price.
Anonymous said...
I'm saying you should wake up to the possibility that the Vaad, far from being the wise men you inagine, may be a bunch of blowhard shlumphs who are concerned with expanding their sphere of infuence, with store owners and consumers paying the price.
7:36 PM
Wake up to the fact that a united group of our community's highly respected spiritual leaders holds far more credibility than an anonymous commenter like you. Just a thought.
You may choose to express disdain for the Vaad. The vast, vast majority of people in this community that I have discussed this issue with strongly respect, support, and trust the Vaad.
Possibly it was just Rabbi Eisen imposing restrictions on GG and only GG.
Anonymous said...
Possibly it was just Rabbi Eisen imposing restrictions on GG and only GG.
Perhaps. Nevertheless, I trust that there is basis for any and all restrictions the Vaad chooses to put on individual businesses. That is what I am saying here. Whether the Bolenders' felt the restrictions were "unecessary" or not, I am more inclined to trust the Vaad's opinion than the store owner's that they were truly necessary. Sorry if you cannot grasp that.
Holding more credibility than me is hardly relevant or much of an endorsement, nor is your personal sense of public sentiment, which is easily manipulated. The problem is when religious authorities keeep raising the bar on what it means to be observant on a practial level. You get a more and more fanatical, disconnected group of people who claim authenticity. I just hope the pendulum swings back the other way.
I just hope the pendulum swings back the other way.
You say the bar-raising is a bad thing. I don't. If the "pendulum swinging back the other way" you talk about so wistfully means lower Kashrut standards, count me out. And, I suspect, count most of my neighbors out.
The bottom line is, in the post Monsey-meat-scandal era, very few who care about Kashrut are going to fault the Vaad for standards you feel are "too strict". Particularly not when this whole controversy came to a head due to misrepresented chicken labels in the store in question.
The new certification K1 @ Gourmet Glatt R Kravitz seems to be very happy with the present Kashruth when I ran into him on Friday.In addition he mentions that Rabbi Weiner of the "KIS" "KIC" a independent Kashruth overseer from Brooklyn(I was told that he seldom ok's a place?) was invited to the store and gave a glowing written report of the store present Kashruth . For those who would want to see this letter I saw it on the entrance door.
Good point, OM. I need a cigarette now.
"The new certification K1 @ Gourmet Glatt R Kravitz seems to be very happy with the present Kashruth when I ran into him on Friday.In addition he mentions that Rabbi Weiner of the "KIS" "KIC" a independent Kashruth overseer from Brooklyn(I was told that he seldom ok's a place?) was invited to the store and gave a glowing written report of the store present Kashruth . For those who would want to see this letter I saw it on the entrance door. "
It doesn't really matter. As om points out, its about our local Rabbi's. If people trust their local Rabbi and he says the kashrus wasn't up to snuff, thats all that matters.
from the string of posts here, I guess we know OM and OD arent rushing out to catch a movie tonight.
All well said anon 8:11 but our Rabbonim really dont have the qualifications such as Rabbi Weiner to make such a decision.
"All well said anon 8:11 but our Rabbonim really dont have the qualifications such as Rabbi Weiner to make such a decision. "
but Rabbi Eisen does, and my Rav trusts his opinion. Thats enough for me.
what makes one rabbis word more relevant than anothers? its all about the gelt...who cares what fat blowhard sits and checks the pepper shakers? you know when u see them
I did a google on Rabbi Weiner he is a expert on kashruth in all aspects including Nikkor.I dont believe any present Rabbi on the Vaad has these credentials.(hasmacha)
Anon 8:17, I really dont want to create chaos, but Rabbi Weiner was the one who closed down Kosher Spot and Nathans in Brooklyn which Rabbi Eisen the head of Kehilla Kosher at that time gave supervision to those two establishments.
the Vaad's "growing stringencies and additional requirements
I'm sorry orthomom, but I think you are kicking up another unneccessary controversy here. I don't believe that the Bolenders' liason, he happens to be just that as far as I was told and not the actual attorney, made a statement that again has nothing to do with kashrus!
You are reading something into the statement which YOU believe to be true and I wish you would reread it and understand what I am saying so that you can correct your original impression and set the record straight here before there is another all out war and another controvery brewing against the Bolenders.
e the Vaad's "growing stringencies and additional requirements" probably had to do with the whole "Shomer Shabbos" issue and not the Kashrus issue, which seemed to be a sticking point with RYE. His whole crusade of "making the store owners be Shomer Shaboos or selling the store to Shomer Shabbos owners" is well known throughout the community. So if you reread the statement, you can see that it probably refers to that as the stringent requirements.
What is good policy for a Vaad to demand is a separate issue-but once policy is stated everyone must follow the standards which must ve enforced in a non discriminatory manner
I think we all agree on this one, and we should tell the VAAD so. We don't want any ONE store treated differently than the others not treated better and not picked on either.
e the Vaad's "growing stringencies and additional requirements" probably had to do with the whole "Shomer Shabbos" issue and not the Kashrus issue, which seemed to be a sticking point with RYE. His whole crusade of "making the store owners be Shomer Shaboos or selling the store to Shomer Shabbos owners" is well known throughout the community. So if you reread the statement, you can see that it probably refers to that as the stringent requirements.
You are dead wrong. This came up a few times on this blog, so I asked someone very close to the Vaad. As he told me, the Shomer Shabbos issue is not in and of itself the issue with GG. As a matter of fact, the person I spoke with said that the owner of Toddy's Appetizing is not at all observant, yet the Vaad views him as one of the most cooperative and compliant store owners in the community.
I think we all agree on this one, and we should tell the VAAD so. We don't want any ONE store treated differently than the others not treated better and not picked on either.
I will do nothing of the sort. I trust the Vaad to make the proper decisions to treat each store appropriately. That was the point behind the creation of a community Vaad which is supported by all Rabbanim across the community spectrum. So they can make decisions without annoying second-guessing going on.
I'm sorry orthomom, but I think you are kicking up another unneccessary controversy here. I don't believe that the Bolenders' liason, he happens to be just that as far as I was told and not the actual attorney, made a statement that again has nothing to do with kashrus!
YOU can believe whatever you want, but until I hear otherwise, i am perfectly justified in my assumption that an attorney, who knows well the laws of misrepresentation, and is presenting a statement as the legal representative of the Bolenders, can be taken at face value.
Ooh. looks like the Vaad got to OM.
Holding more credibility than me is hardly relevant or much of an endorsement, nor is your personal sense of public sentiment, which is easily manipulated. The problem is when religious authorities keeep raising the bar on what it means to be observant on a practial level. You get a more and more fanatical, disconnected group of people who claim authenticity. I just hope the pendulum swings back the other way.
Maybe it's time for the vaad to establish two levels of kashrut, like rabbanut and rabbanut mehadrin, since the opposition to the vaad seems to share the sentiments expressed above.
If you don't think a bi-level system of standards is an appropriate direction for the vaad to take, then there really isn't any viable alternative to the vaad's current standards, which are intended to satisfy all of the rabbis in the community, rather than the standards of those individuals who consider the vaad fanatical.
I have heard that Rabbi Eisen had said that he feels the new policy of kashrus should also include that if we can't trust you on Orach chaim and choshen mishpat issues (business laws)we cannot trust you on Yoreh Deah (kashrus) either. There is probably more than issue/problem going on between the Vaad and GG. After the Monsey issue and previously the one in Brooklyn (Glatt spot?) and there are others that are less severe that never make the papers (Rabbi Eisen or anybody else can give you an hour worth of stories) it is time to let the Rabbis make sure all hashgocah are done right without leniencies that should not be relied on in the first place. (such as pilot lights, it is leniency that Rema brings down, but Rema himself says you should not really use it)
"
Maybe it's time for the vaad to establish two levels of kashrut, like rabbanut and rabbanut mehadrin, since the opposition to the vaad seems to share the sentiments expressed above.
"
This is how the vaad came to be what it is today. R Reisman was unhappy with the standards of kashrus in the neighborhood. he lobbied to all the community rabbis to raise those standards. the community rabbis agreed to some but not all of the standards. some they felt were way too restrictive. so R Resiman started a recommended list that incorporates the stores and restayrants that follow his stricter standards. so there is practically a mehadrin level of hechsher here.
Is Hebrew National considered kosher enough to eat?
What this establishes more than anything else is the Bolender's lack of credibility. Their story seems to change with each week's paper. First it was about "personality conflict" now they admit they actually failed/refused to comply with the Vaad's standard. This is the same pattern we saw with Chickengate -- first it was a mistake than they denied it happened altogether.
This whole difference of opinion seems to be rooted in the a larger conflict that has been brewing in the community for some time.
As Lawrence, Cedarhurst and Woodmere have gradually turned increasingly "black hat," those of a more "modern" persuasion who had previously been the dominant religious group have grown increasingly frustrated with the changes that they see around them (and both of the "black hat" and "modern" types have grown increasingly intollerant of each other). Of course, this conflict becomes ever more pronounced when the standards of one persuasion are seemingly or actually imposed upon those of the other persuasion.
However, in this case, the rabbinic leaders of the "modern" persuasion either agree wholeheartedly with the "black hat" rabbinic leaders, or they just don't see fit to rock the boat on this issue. So ultimately, this boils down to a conflict or a misunderstanding between the "modern" and their respective rabbinic leaders.
You may choose to express disdain for the Vaad. The vast, vast majority of people in this community that I have discussed this issue with strongly respect, support, and trust the Vaad.
7:40 PM
You weren't replying to me-but I suspect judging by your other posts you live in the Lawrence School district, and by your posts on carriages probably Lawrence-if you would go further east you would see much more cynicism about the Vaad-at Shela shudas tonighta lot of cynicism was expressed in my schul.
BTW looking at Newsday and community voting in Tues. elections can see how Lawrence is vastly different than Hewlett-Woodmere-look at votes for Clinton-in Lawrence less than 50% in HW around 2/3rds and more. We are different communities in attitudes to. I would bet the attitude towards Daas Torah is different-I would bet different perushim are popular about lo tasur min hadavar aher yomru lcha yemin usmol are popular-Yerushalmi vs Sifri.
We are different in viewpoints in general-thus different people in general move into different neighborhoods. Lawrence east of Rocjkaway Tpk was a bastion of MO 35 years ago-today it has become anything but-today you have a few old timers there-their kids are not living thhere in general.
Once one gets to Rockaway Tpk-Washington Ave things in general begin to change. The Rabbis might be interchangeable with those in Lawrence but their congrgants are different.
"We are different in viewpoints in general-thus different people in general move into different neighborhoods. Lawrence east of Rocjkaway Tpk was a bastion of MO 35 years ago-today it has become anything but-today you have a few old timers there-their kids are not living thhere in general.
Once one gets to Rockaway Tpk-Washington Ave things in general begin to change."
You are outdated in your asessment. most of cedarhurst has begun to be populated by flatbush natives who would be horrofied to hear you dismiss their rabbis words. rabbis feitman and speigels congregations specifically are much more black hat/uo than mo, and most are black hat yeshiva graduates and send their children to darchai/tag/bby.
also, i live in lawrence and voted for clinton, gore and kerry.
Anonymous said...
This whole difference of opinion seems to be rooted in the a larger conflict that has been brewing in the community for some time.
As Lawrence, Cedarhurst and Woodmere have gradually turned increasingly "black hat," those of a more "modern" persuasion who had previously been the dominant religious group have grown increasingly frustrated with the changes that they see around them (and both of the "black hat" and "modern" types have grown increasingly intollerant of each other). Of course, this conflict becomes ever more pronounced when the standards of one persuasion are seemingly or actually imposed upon those of the other persuasion.
However, in this case, the rabbinic leaders of the "modern" persuasion either agree wholeheartedly with the "black hat" rabbinic leaders, or they just don't see fit to rock the boat on this issue. So ultimately, this boils down to a conflict or a misunderstanding between the "modern" and their respective rabbinic leaders.
9:31 PM
I wrote the 947 post before the 931 post of someone else was written -I essentially agree with 931-except to add that I believe that the Rabbis of the more "modern" Woodmere,Hewlett and to some extent YI of Cedarhurst are not the same hashkafa as their congregants-so that it may be they agree with the more black hat Rabbis-note the Rabbis of the CWH schuls do not send their kids to the more modern Day Schools despite the fact their congegants do- despite the fact that some of them and some of their spouses teach atthe various more modern schools.
You are outdated in your asessment. most of cedarhurst has begun to be populated by flatbush natives who would be horrofied to hear you dismiss their rabbis words. rabbis feitman and speigels congregations specifically are much more black hat/uo than mo, and most are black hat yeshiva graduates and send their children to darchai/tag/bby.
9:53 PM
I was more careful in my 955 post when I refer to Woodmere Hewlett and YIC.
Note HAFTR and HALB are still big schools
momof4 said...
I think we all agree on this one, and we should tell the VAAD so. We don't want any ONE store treated differently than the others not treated better and not picked on either.
I will do nothing of the sort. I trust the Vaad to make the proper decisions to treat each store appropriately. That was the point behind the creation of a community Vaad which is supported by all Rabbanim across the community spectrum. So they can make decisions without annoying second-guessing going on.
In a nutshell Orthomom-the nutshell of a part of a dispute. I and many believe that Rabbis enforce the laws and rules which should be uniform-chok echat-not unfettered discretion. You seem to allow them to treat each store "appropriately". I believe in stare decisis -as do poskim-thus publishing of tshuvot and sheilot so we treat people equally to the extent possible.
NO BLIND your 8:51 post is really confusing. Is there a deal on the table??
You are dead wrong. This came up a few times on this blog, so I asked someone very close to the Vaad. As he told me, the Shomer Shabbos issue is not in and of itself the issue with GG. As a matter of fact, the person I spoke with said that the owner of Toddy's Appetizing is not at all observant, yet the Vaad views him as one of the most cooperative and compliant store owners in the community.
Well if you are going to compare the owners of Toddy's to the owners of GG, then I will have to compare the head of this VAAD to the head of the former VAAD Rabbi Chait. If Rabbi Chait did not have a "lack of cooperation" from the Bolenders the way Rabbi Eisen seems to have, then it is possible that it has something to do with the new head of the VAAD and not lack of cooperation from the store itself.
If you are truly interested in researching answers, as you seem to be by asking around and finding out about Toddy's, I suggest that in all fairness, you speak to Rabbi Chait and ask him if he had the same problems with GG.
YOU can believe whatever you want, but until I hear otherwise, i am perfectly justified in my assumption that an attorney, who knows well the laws of misrepresentation, and is presenting a statement as the legal representative of the Bolenders, can be taken at face value.
Again, orthomom, nothing in the face of the statement said anything about "Kashrus requirement" you chose to understand it as such, please read it again.
First it was about "personality conflict" now they admit they actually failed/refused to comply with the Vaad's standard.
I didn't see an admission of non-compliance anywhere. If you choose to assume something it doesn't make it so, only in your own assumption.
ask rabbi weiner for his report
Orthomom, How did the Shabbat Shuva Darshan get his info on GG before all the other Vaad Rabbis got it?? And how come he didn't sign the letter? The answer is that he is behind it all, and the illustrious members of our Vaad don't realize that he has pulling the strings the whole time! He got rid of Rabbi Chait, and RYE has been talking to him the whole time. He is bullying the town.
Oh by the way, I recently got the A.Time chinese auction catalogue, which is a very worthy tzedaka. Did you notice what I did? Elite caterers, the Katz's, a member of this community since way back, and a family who have been catering our simchas for a very long time in most of our schools and shuls are under the hashgacha of "Adas Yereim", not the 5T VAAD?
How interesting is that?
Anonymous said...
Orthomom, How did the Shabbat Shuva Darshan get his info on GG before all the other Vaad Rabbis got it?? And how come he didn't sign the letter?
I'm not sure who you're talking about, but I can tell you that I knew about the Gourmet Glatt situation before Shabbat Shuva as well, as did many of my friends and acquaintances. I first posted about it on September 27.
In terms of Vaad members who did not sign the letter, I'm not aware that there were any at all.
"Orthomom, How did the Shabbat Shuva Darshan get his info on GG before all the other Vaad Rabbis got it?? And how come he didn't sign the letter? The answer is that he is behind it all, and the illustrious members of our Vaad don't realize that he has pulling the strings the whole time! He got rid of Rabbi Chait, and RYE has been talking to him the whole time. He is bullying the town."
I know what you are trying to imply and youre not right. R Reisman spoke about this on Shabbos Shuva, but everyone knew about GG by then. R Reisman is also not on the Vaad so why would he sign the letter. Stop trying to put down every Rav in the 5 towns to cover the Bolender's tucheses.
In terms of Vaad members who did not sign the letter, I'm not aware that there were any at all.
Stop being so blatantly one sided. We mentioned many times right here on this blog that Rabbi Spiegel didn't sign, Rabbi Nayman didn't sign, the Kaminetskys didn't sign. There were many who didn't sign.
In addition, there are many people including yourself who know so much about what goes on with the VAAD, yet everything is supposed to be confidential. That is also part of their contracts and guidelines, rules and guidelines.
Why is the "store owners" the only ones that are supposed to uphold their end of the "stringent requirement". Please lets not stir up another needles controversy.
"Adas Yereim",
That's Khal Adas Yeshurin, sorry. But although it is an excellent Hechser, no one is complaining, not one RAV that we shouldn't be using this caterer because they don't have the VAAD's hechsher.
Stop being so blatantly one sided. We mentioned many times right here on this blog that Rabbi Spiegel didn't sign, Rabbi Nayman didn't sign, the Kaminetskys didn't sign. There were many who didn't sign.
"blatantly one sided"? Surely you jest? I have no horse in this race. "We mentioned many times"? I don't know who "we" are, but I certainly can't be expected to recall every comment here. Are you talking about one of the Rabbanim that you just mentioned when you say that he didn't sign the letter? You're making this very confusing.
In addition, there are many people including yourself who know so much about what goes on with the VAAD, yet everything is supposed to be confidential. That is also part of their contracts and guidelines, rules and guidelines.
Everything I have blogged here has been from public information. Newpaper articles, Drashas given by community Rabbanim, the Vaad letter, etc.
i dont think there was ever a definitive list posted here of who did and didn't sign the vaad letter?
Every shul rabbi on the vaad who was asked to, signed the letter
What do rabbis kaminetsky have to do with the vaad? (nothing)
"Every shul rabbi on the vaad who was asked to, signed the letter
What do rabbis kaminetsky have to do with the vaad? (nothing) "
exactly. how is om being one-sided by stating what we all know? every rabbi on teh vaad signed.
What do rabbis kaminetsky have to do with the vaad? (nothing)
Rabbi Spiegel who is related didn't sign-Rebetzen Binyamin Kaminetsky's maiden name was Spiegel.
Rabbi Lefkowitz-Rabbi Kaminetsky's son-in-law has apparently signed the leteer but apparently has not said a word about the controversy in schul since the letter. Rabbis Billet and Blumenstein and Moshe Weinberger-of Aish first name to distinguish R. Dovid Weinberger -have spoken about the controversy since the letter.
You see people in the east of 5T's are aware of what is happening in the non Lawrence part of 5T's.
I just gave a report on Woodmere and Hewlett Rabbis east of YIW-who has spoken avbout it and who hasn't-I believe my info was accurate-someone correct me if I'm wrong.
What did other Rabbis say or not nay publicly about the letter in the 5Ts and Rockaways.
"
Rabbi Spiegel who is related didn't sign-Rebetzen Binyamin Kaminetsky's maiden name was Spiegel.
Rabbi Lefkowitz-Rabbi Kaminetsky's son-in-law has apparently signed the leteer but apparently has not said a word about the controversy in schul since the letter. Rabbis Billet and Blumenstein and Moshe Weinberger-of Aish first name to distinguish R. Dovid Weinberger -have spoken about the controversy since the letter.
You see people in the east of 5T's are aware of what is happening in the non Lawrence part of 5T's."
this is all not relevant. the question is, did any vaad members not sign, and i think the answer is no. all of the vaad mambers signed. what does the question of whther some rabbis chose to speak about it from their pulpit mean anyway? the rabbis known to have done so (rabbi reisman, rabbi feitman, rabbi m weinberger) are rabbis who generally are not shy about giving their kehillas firm directives. just because some rabbis didnt speak to tehir community diesnt mean anything, when was the last time they did speak to their shuls about anything?
Knowing that much about rabbi spiegel, you have some nerve to suggest that he's part of the Bolender rebellion because his signature isn't on the letter. Rabbi Spiegel has said the same things about the store as all of the other rabbis in the community have.
Who do you intend to impugn next as part of your conspiracy fabrication?
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that all of the signatures may have been forged (besides for rabbi eisens)?
Maybe rabbi eisen hired stunt doubles for each rabbi, to attend the vaad meetings and to vote unainmously in favor of pulling the hechsher?
This is ridiculous. More vast right wing conspiracy theories. I live in Hewlett and care about my Kashrut. Even if I don't live in Lawrence, Cedarhurst or Far Rockaway or wear a black hat.
just because some rabbis didnt speak to tehir community diesnt mean anything, when was the last time they did speak to their shuls about anything?
If hypothetically one did speak about the Vaad a couple of weeks before the letter and not spoken about the letter would that mean anything?
If you asked your rabbi and he tells you he didn't sign the letter because he disagrees with the vaad ... then that may be an indication that there wasn't unanimity.
Otherwise, you really don't have a leg to stand on
when was the last time they did speak to their shuls about anything
I hope they do-my Rabbi speaks about many items of interest.
Anonymous said...
If you asked your rabbi and he tells you he didn't sign the letter because he disagrees with the vaad ... then that may be an indication that there wasn't unanimity.
Otherwise, you really don't have a leg to stand on
If there wer a Rabbi who signed the letter-after all the letter talks about contractual violations-but apparently has told people they can buy at GG does that mean anything?
Maybe yes or maybe not-GG lost its hashgacha per letter due to contractual dispute-which the person signed and maybe that person trust R. Kravitz's hashgacha the same way most of us I guess would eat from KAJ andOU even if not under the Vaad.
Slightly off topic....
Has anyone heard what happened to the OU at La Carne Grill in the city?
I was told they pulled the Hashgocha because the owner was caught with Credit Card fraud from customers.
Anyone know the scoop?
I heard that too. But didn't the OK come in there?
Sad to say i have lost some of my respect for my Rabbi! I am not the only one too. In the YIWH many are very unhappy with our Rabbi for not answering calls on the subjuct, not answering e mails on the subject and not keeping us informed more then "don't shop".
It is a very sad day! The Power of the VAAD has done so much damage!
I agree, the damage is more from the way the vaad does things, the use of power or miss use and the nonequal way some businesses are treated. Also many of us remember what happened to glatt yaght! A man was closed down because of mixed dancing and not a "kosher" issue
Maybe it is time for all this to stop. A very nice religion is being ruined
From the lack of business in GG, I would say the Vaad and the Rabbis are stronger than ever I expect GG to be hot topic at the Agudah Convention next week. The only ones kvethching about the lack of trust in the Rabbis are a few die hards in this blog, but as I see it we are a untied Kehillah that are in lock step with our Rabbis.
Also what is the deal the Rabbis and Bolender have cut? Also how does everyone know?
I do not agree with the last post. Many people in theYIW are very unhappy with out Rabbi!
The deal is that he will sell out in name only (just like Brachs did in queens a few years back)and everyone will be happy
Another fake deal! doesn't it make you proud to be Jewish!!!!
We need to restore faith in our Rabbonim. The first step is for the Rabbonim to admit their mistake by making this into a boycott instead of a simple Hashgacha withdrawal.
Everything I have blogged here has been from public information. Newpaper articles, Drashas given by community Rabbanim, the Vaad letter, etc.
Correct, and all has been YOUR interperation of what is going on, as is your INTERPRETATION of the alleged comments made by the liason.
I did not mean for you to get insulted or "tzihitz" I simply asked you to reread the article and the comment and try to see that he did not
1. admit fault on behalf of the store
2. he did not say that the "new stringent requirements had anything to do with kashrus.
All I was asking was to be careful what is written and what controversy it might, and obviously has now stirred up once again, since the Rabbonim are now working dilligently to put an end to the L"H and divisiveness that has taken over our community.
Instead of speaking to someone "close to the VAAD", maybe you should actually speak to YOUR RAV and get his take on what the "stringent requirements were" and whether or not you should kick up more dust at this time.
Every shul rabbi on the vaad who was asked to, signed the letter
Are you saying that not every shul Rabbi is on the VAAD? Why is that? Is it because they don't agree with the VAAD? Or is it because the VAAD doesn't agree with them?
are rabbis who generally are not shy about giving their kehillas firm directives
And what firm directives did your Rabbis give you about Loshon Horah and motzi shem rah? And if the Rabbis are working on a solution with GG, ask them if they still want you to stir up more controversy in THEIR names right now or leave it to them to speak for themselves.
this is all not relevant. the question is, did any vaad members not sign, and i think the answer is no. all of the vaad mambers signed.
We will never know that unless we have an actual list of ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE VAAD.
This is ridiculous. More vast right wing conspiracy theories. I live in Hewlett and care about my Kashrut. Even if I don't live in Lawrence, Cedarhurst or Far Rockaway or wear a black hat.
There are obviously people of all varieties of practice-black hat, belief in Rabbis or not etc in all the communities of the 5T's and Far Rock-but there is no doubt there is a general difference between the mean actions, dress, beliefs etc of the various communities.
Anonymous said...
Sad to say i have lost some of my respect for my Rabbi! I am not the only one too. In the YIWH many are very unhappy with our Rabbi for not answering calls on the subjuct,
I suspect a typo YIWH-in my mind would be Young Israel of West Hempstead-outside of 5T's-Rabbi Kelemer is not part of 5T Vaad-has his own hashgacha. If that is what you meant it would not be appropriate for him to comment on affairs of neighborhood Vaad.
Did you mean YIH (Hewlett)-one of names of Rabbi Blumensteins schul. or did you mean YIW (Woodmere) or YINW (North Woodmere)?
The issue for the vast majority of people is not the owners of GG-I wouldn't recognize them for example if I saw them on the street-the issue is whether or not the Rabbinate should have absolute power over a community. Many say yes-many say no.
they are going agains daas Torah and the wishes of their own Rabbonim
What daas Torah is -when it was invented might surprise many.
It is a very recent concept similar to the Catholics who in Vatican 1-1870 in response to secualrization made papal infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra a dogma, similarly daas Torah as used now is a very recent concept generally very late 19th century-became popular in Agudah circles mid 20th century.
I am not stating that those who made up the modern concept of daas Torah copied from Vatican 1-but the same sociological factors were around. That is not to mean that Hakachik issues were not always paskened by Rabbanim-that is a matter of knowledge to the extent they have it-which is often the case.
The only ones kvethching about the lack of trust in the Rabbis are a few die hards in this blog, but as I see it we are a untied Kehillah
I have been guilty of my share of typos-but I found it almost Freudian to have "untied Kehillah "
rather than united Kehillah
We need a second organization to keep them honest. The vaad has let us all down
We need a second organization to keep them honest. The vaad has let us all down
Many people in my area (west Hempstead) have shopped in GG, does that mean I should not eat in those houses?
what a mess
When the o.u. was in charge of Moshe Peking, they had wax closures on all the food freezers and deep freezers, when the mashgichim would come in they checked to see if anyone opened the freezers. One does not have to give the keys away to your own store. That is just rude and a over use of power!
I agree with the person who wrote absolute power corrupts absolutely
I would love to see a group of people to go shopping in GG today to show the vaad and our Rabbis how unhappy we all are! You don't have to buy meat if that is an issue but just spend money
Let our power speak for itself
I think I will do just that go shopping, even in this rain, and go to GG. We need to make it clear and show how unhappy we are being treated like children.
I just came back from GG. It filled with poeple shopping and whats more it was interesting talking to those shoppers! Many were there showing there support for the store, and there vendors. i was very happy to spend over 200$ and got some really great bargins too. Chicken breasts at 3.29 lb It was very nice to see all the poeple who share the same thoughts as I do
Time will tell then, if this will be the beginning of a slow but steady return to the norm.
Hopefully we can get back to normal, before all this happened and put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Of course it would be better if it all comes together with the VAAD. But with or without the VAAD, I truly believe GG will survive.
The more we discover that other stores have additional or different hechshers and they are freguented by local consumers, more patrons will return.
I am a member of the YIW, I will not look at our Rabbi the same after this. He has lost my trust!
"
Hopefully we can get back to normal, before all this happened and put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Of course it would be better if it all comes together with the VAAD. But with or without the VAAD, I truly believe GG will survive."
I look at it completely differently:
Hopefully we can get back to normal, before all this happened and put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Of course it would be better if it all comes together with GOURMET GLATT. But with or without GOURMET GLATT, I truly believe the VAAD will survive.
" Anonymous said...
I would love to see a group of people to go shopping in GG today to show the vaad and our Rabbis how unhappy we all are! You don't have to buy meat if that is an issue but just spend money
Let our power speak for itself"
" Anonymous said...
I think I will do just that go shopping, even in this rain, and go to GG. We need to make it clear and show how unhappy we are being treated like children. "
" Anonymous said...
I just came back from GG. It filled with poeple shopping and whats more it was interesting talking to those shoppers! Many were there showing there support for the store, and there vendors. i was very happy to spend over 200$ and got some really great bargins too. Chicken breasts at 3.29 lb It was very nice to see all the poeple who share the same thoughts as I do "
These comments are so stupid and very obvious. Mr. Bolender is that you?
Gee, I wrote the last one, I am not part of GG at all, now I see what type of people are out there. If you do not agree with them they call you "so stupid" I am so proud to be part of the five towns!!!when someone has nothing to say they just call you names! Maybe you need to go back and learn somethings from these "wonderful rabbis"
I just came back from Gourmet Glatt. Bolender was there and everyone applauded for him when he came out of the office. Then they all erupted into a spontaneous "Hell No, the Vaad must go!" cheer.
Then a couple of the checkout people started dancing on the checkout counters.
I just came back from Gourmet Glatt. Bolender was there and everyone applauded for him when he came out of the office. Then they all erupted into a spontaneous "Hell No, the Vaad must go!" cheer.
Then a couple of the checkout people started dancing on the checkout counters.
We've got to make sure this new surge in GG support continues into the week. So, if you are no in the area during the day, at least try to make an effort to stop in to GG before and after work (e.g., on the way to and from the train).
" Anonymous said...
I just came back from Gourmet Glatt. Bolender was there and everyone applauded for him when he came out of the office. Then they all erupted into a spontaneous "Hell No, the Vaad must go!" cheer.
Then a couple of the checkout people started dancing on the checkout counters."
LOL! Let me try:
I just got back from GG. They were giving chicken out for free! And they got new motorized shopping carts! And everyone there bowed down to the triumverate of Rabbi pinchus, Mr. bolender, and Rabi Kravitz.
I broke down and cried.
I will try to stop and shop at GG as I get off the train too. I was there today too but no dancing and no motorized carts, just people shopping as if notihng has happened
My wife who shops there-except for meat which she hasn't bought there in yeard-told me today there appeared to be less than normal shoppers than were there before the Vaad controversy.
I too will make an effort to go there tomorrow and stand up for what i believe is unfair treatment.
But with or without GOURMET GLATT, I truly believe the VAAD will survive.
No one questioned the VAAD's survival, however, all this brought to the front the way the VAAD was being run. It brought a lot of questions to the surface and the fact the community has a right to have those questions answered if they want the FULL DEVOTION AND SUPPORT of the community.
Just as the new VAAD felt it was necessary to make changes and implement certain new rules and restrictions, so to does the community feel that there needs to be some changes and some checks and balances implemented to be sure that the VAAD adheres to the "one rule standards" and that the community and all the shopkeepers in it understand clearly what those rules are.
These comments are so stupid and very obvious. Mr. Bolender is that you?
Give it up already, no it is not Mr. Bolender, but your comments just beg us to ask, RYE is that you?
Isn't it time you grew up and stopped this nonsense?
"Hell No, the Vaad must go!" cheer.
OK, I am one of GG's biggest supporters, but I won't stand for this, and I know from my discussions with the Bolenders that they are not encouraging any public display of VAAD bashing.
No one questioned the VAAD's survival, however, all this brought to the front the way the VAAD was being run. It brought a lot of questions to the surface and the fact the community has a right to have those questions answered if they want the FULL DEVOTION AND SUPPORT of the community.
The fact of the matter is that you do not represent the community; your view is a minority view in the community, and the rabbis and the vaad have the support and backing of most of the community.
So why should anyone pander to you (or Bolender)?
The fact of the matter is that you do not represent the community; your view is a minority view in the community, and the rabbis and the vaad
Says who? And who appointed you to represent MOST of the community? Watch out your ego is growing you might start floating right out the window.
Says who? And who appointed you to represent MOST of the community? Watch out your ego is growing you might start floating right out the window.
I don't think anyone is at risk of having their ego grow that much unless they feel comfortable criticizing the actions of all of the rabbis in the community
The fact of the matter is that you do not represent the community; your view is a minority view in the community, and the rabbis and the vaad have the support and backing of most of the community
we really don't know the numbers one way or another there has never been a secret election/poll on this issue one way or the other.
It's reasonable to assume that if the rabbis hear these complaints from significant enough numbers, then they'll respond to them.
Anonymous said...
It's reasonable to assume that if the rabbis hear these complaints from significant enough numbers, then they'll respond to them.
and I thought the Rabbis are acting in a pure halachik matter no carrying about being PR people.
I think you are wrong, the community is very split on this. The Rabbi's have lost much support, our community has lost much too.
I am sure that they will be a fake deal, GG will be sold to a fake front man just as Brachs was sold to a family member/
I think you are wrong, the community is very split on this. The Rabbi's have lost much support, our community has lost much too.
I'll believe that as soon as people stop paying their shul dues (which support the rabbis and the vaad)
That would be very interesting if people would stop paying dues but I don't beleave that will happen.I went out to eat in the five towns last night, the owner was joking about maybe the vaad will close him down if they did not like his haircut. It was funny but it really was sad. The vaad has become the butt of to many jokes, that is very very sad
We went out to queens we did not want to suppport the vaad of five towns!
We went out to queens we did not want to suppport the vaad of five towns!
We went completely vegitarian, so we don't need to rely on any vaad stores for anything. The kids have been giving us trouble, but they're coming around.
A couple of guys from my shul met with a cattle farmer from upstate - we're thinking of starting our own slaughterhouse in my garage.
We stopped eating food so as not to support any kashrus organizations. Were' wasting away, but anything to not supoortthe Vaad. DOWN WITH VAADS EVERYWHERE.
After much deliberation, we've determined that we're better off eating Boars Head than supporting the kosher mafia ... and now we can even afford to pay our kids' tuition.
as long as we are talking about tuition why aren't the school three years and the last year inIsrael. this four years of paying thru the nose then a fifth year in israel is sick!!!
ps just got back from GG is wasn't empty but wasn't full either!
ps just got back from GG is wasn't empty but wasn't full either!
Did everyone do the hora when Bolender appeared? (as repored above)
I would not mr Bolender if I tripped over him
Is it true that the Vaad is merging with the Agudah to form one big Mafia family?
I understand that Gourmet Glatt is joining forces with Bagel Boss to form a self-certification agency. It will operate on the honor system with no need for rabbinic intervention.
bagel boss is under a retired Y I rabbi. Bagel Boss is allowed into most Y I's
As many things here that last post os not correct or the VAAD is unhappy because do not have there hands out for money
Some of these comments are meant to be very amusing and some find them to be so. And although I am just speaking for myself, I am sure others will agree with me, some of us find them to be very offensive and just add more fuel to the fire of offending all parties involved.
It isn't funny to keep hearing that the VAAD, the RABBONIM and the Bolenders are still the butt of your jokes and fodder for more Loshon Horah when the Rabbonim and the Bolenders are actually working together to come to an agreement and put an end to this horrendous opportunity for chilul hashem.
Can't we just all act like grown ups and move forward? Have we not had enough satisfaction yet of ripping into everyone we personally chose to rip into? No matter which side we chose to support? Enough is enough. These comments are not funny anymore. They are hurtful and annoying. It is unheard of that they are coming from FRUM ADULTS who know better, who put on teffilin every morning, daven three times a day, send their children to yeshivas and would be appalled if their children spoke this way.
Please, we have all had over two weeks to vent our frustrations, there are ways of saying things that if you still need to vent or if you still feel you have something important to contribute, you can say without still attacking, humiliating or extracting another pound of flesh from any of the parties involved.
Even if you wish to comment on your frustration with the VAAD or the Store for a particular reason, you can say it without venom or without a call for riots. State your purpose in a respectful manner, you will make your point and it will be more serioiusly considered.
I have learned many things but I will give my donations very carefully in the future.
Some people will not be getting my checks this year!
I bet the deal is as phony as it was when Brach's had to sell! (He sold to a family member, wow)But I am glad that they did not put GG out of business as the did to glatt yacht
I understand that Gourmet Glatt is joining forces with Bagel Boss to form a self-certification agency. It will operate on the honor system with no need for rabbinic intervention
WE NEED SOMEONE TO SUPPERVISE THE RABBIS!!!!
rabbis are supervised by G-d (at no charge)
I wish I would beleave in that but as a person in the food business (not related to GG in anyway or form ) that is so far from the truth in the food industry that is a shocking!
bagel boss is under a retired Y I rabbi. Bagel Boss is allowed into most Y I's
Bagel Boss's "rav hamachshir" is currently the rabbi of a shul in Hillcrest.
But it's perplexing how you seem to ascribe the certification some level of religability based on (a) the fact htat he he used to be the rabbi of a young israel and (b) a vague suggestion about some young israel shuls allowing affairs catered by bagel boss in the shul
You seem to have some specific information about where the certification is or is not accepted. Which YI shuls are you referring to?
Without casting any aspersions on this particular rabbi, you do raise a significant issue to be considered:
What does the rabbinic position (or even torah knowledge) of a certifying rabbi have to do with the reliability of his certification. Unfortunately, there are a number of well known and well-regarded rabbis who are infamous for their poor kashrus certifications. Some of them are highly acclaimed torah scholars, but they don't apply those principles to their level of certification. Some of them certify but would never eat the food themselves.
The point is that the reliability of a certification (like that of a storeowner) must be based largely on its respective track record (along with some less important factors).
No one should rely on any certification because it includes the word "rabbi" or the name of a shul or yeshiva or chassidus, or merely because the certifying rabbi is known to be an upstanding talmid chochom.
I am not sure which schul the person was writting about but I did have Bagel Boss in the Y I W H! I can only speak from what I did and I do trust my Rabbi
"FRUM ADULTS who know better, who put on teffilin every morning, daven three times a day, send their children to yeshivas "
Don't assume everyone who reads here and writes here fits into that category. The world is not that small. Personally, I send my kids to yeshiva, daven once a day and don't put on tefillin at all, but still consider my opinion valid.
I think everyone has the right to his or her opinion. I don't think anyone should judges others by what they do on the outside. That, in my opinion, is what is wrong with the frum world, to many people think that there opinion is more valid than others1 shame on you
maybe if the rabbis would look at real issues rather then politics this would be a better world
Can't we get back to the embellishing reports from the store?
sure - i have a first hand report. was just there. no dancing in the aisles. quite quiet. sorry to disappoint.
Don't assume everyone who reads here and writes here fits into that category. The world is not that small. Personally, I send my kids to yeshiva, daven once a day and don't put on tefillin at all, but still consider my opinion valid.
Your opinion is truly valid and moreso when said in a polite and constructive manner. I didn't mean to exclude women, I only meant to ask that the snide remarks and hurtful jokes should please stop.
just came back from shopping, no dancing in the isles, moderate quiet group of shoppers. most seem to be shopping in the rain to show support.
if this goes on any longer I wonder if we will see
"SUPPORT GG BUMPER STICKERS"
define community
define community
If I have to define community to you, you must live in Brooklyn.
GG is your local store, until they were bullied into being forced to take on another supervision.
Are kosher restaurants and grocers required to be filthy or is that just coincidental? In particular, is there a law that forbids Jews from maintaining a clean public toilet?
It is well known in the food establishment here in the 5 Towns that Rabbi Eisen does in fact pick and choose certain things to be strict on with various establishments . Whereas in other establishments of the same specific food type business he lets things slide.
It is well known in the food establishment here in the 5 Towns that Rabbi Eisen does in fact pick and choose certain things to be strict on with various establishments . Whereas in other establishments of the same specific food type business he lets things slide.
Isn't that his job - to exercise judgment?
Is he supposed to represent the interests of consumers or the interests of proprietors?
Anonymous said...
Isn't that his job - to exercise judgment?
Is he supposed to represent the interests of consumers or the interests of proprietors?
12:35 AM
Kashrus standards should be just that ..STANDARDS that are verifiable and objectively viewed.. the subjective nature of the individual inspecting should not prevail., I dont believe that there are true STANDARDS set for all the stores under the Vaad. and, that , my friends, seems to be the main issue...
that sounds a lot like a proprietor agenda, as opposed to a consumer agenda
Kashrus standards should be just that ..STANDARDS that are verifiable and objectively viewed.. the subjective nature of the individual inspecting should not prevail., I dont believe that there are true STANDARDS set for all the stores under the Vaad. and, that , my friends, seems to be the main issue...
That's a really poor excuse for a "main issue." Every kashrus agency in the world operates with the same type of judgement - because there is no other way to do the job efficiently and effectively.
I dont believe that there are true STANDARDS set for all the stores under the Vaad. and, that , my friends, seems to be the main issue...
That's ridiculous! Every store is given guidelines and standards to follow. However, the certifying agency needs to be responsive to concerns, changes in store operations and unique issues that arise in the course of any give store doing its business. The vaad hakashrus is a private security force or policing agency. Imagine if police officers and security guards were robots (Hey, I think there's actually a movie like that) and could not exercise their judgment to insure the safety of the public. The only people who would call for this loosening of standards or zero flexibility for a vaad are (a) storeowners or (b) consumers who resent when any stringencies are imposed on them by others.
Unfortunately, neither of the two can or should be motivating the direction of the vaad, which is supposed be safeguarding consumers as best as possible.
When did Brach's have to sell?
I think they're referring to an circumstances between the vaad of queens and the original Brach's store in queens, which was owned by the previous Brach generation
The vaad hakashrus is a private security force or policing agency
Police and security forces follow the LAW AND RULES!!!.They are not allowed to change or bend the rules and they have to answer to another authority if they are challenged.
So the issue remains that there must be STANDARD rules and the VAAD must post them, and there should be a checks and balance system for them as well. The head of the VAAD does not get to bend or break the rules for one store and then be more stringent in another.
Sure he does. He's job is to use his best judgement. And if his judgement is questioned, then it's the job of the rabbis in the community to resolve the matter. Are you a rabbi? member of the vaad?
I am glad that people are shopping and showing the displeasure with everything that is going on.
If people were really shopping there (and doing the hora in the aisles), then Bolender wouldn't be bending over backwards to make amends with the vaad.
He's job is to use his best judgement. And if his judgement is questioned, then it's the job of the rabbis in the community to resolve the matter
Well we will all see how the RABBIS of the community will resolve the matter in the way they handle the negotiations with the store. As stated before the RABBIS made a proposal that was not easy for GG to accept but they did, it is RYE and his attorney that is holding up the finalization of that agreement. How the Rabbis resolve that matter will truly prove whether his judgment in the matter is the higher authority or whether the judgment of the community Rabbis are the higher authority.
If people were really shopping there (and doing the hora in the aisles), then Bolender wouldn't be bending over backwards to make amends with the vaad.
Firstly, that was probably an exageration from a happy blogger and secondly GG does not have to BEND OVER BACKWARDS. All they need to do is negotiate respectfully and fairly with the Rabbonim in the community and that is what they have been doing.
do the rabbis in the community negotiate respectfully and fairly? I wish I could say I beleived that but I truley do not beleive that. this has really changed what I, some of my friends and children think of our local Rabbis. THAT IS WHAT HURTS TO MOST
What we can really use in this town is a Rotisserie Rabbi League. This way kehillahs can trade Rabbis the way sports teams trade players. Let's say a Rabbi takes a more stringent stand than most of his congregants would. Instead of the congregants moving, simply move the Rabbi one giant step to the shul on the right and take the Rabbi from the shul on the left. Everyone wins, that is until Rabbi Reisman gets traded to Temple Israel. Still, I'd like to be at that first service. It would make some pretty good entertainmnet.
I guess we can dream about that together with a rabbanut/rabbanut mehadrin system
I really do not think it is a laughing matter. I think the Rabbis have let us down. If you are not to the right then they think they can treat you like garbage. I agree with the person who wrote "It is time to rethink where our donations go!"
Why don't you start your own shul with all the myriads of people in this comment thread who can't stand the position taken by their rabbis, and then find a rabbi who will promote your views. That way, your new rabbi will represent your interests on the vaad (and you won't be ridiculed quite so much for criticizing the position of all the other rabbis).
No , it will just be better to let our money do the talking. To look down on others is not what I am about and it is a shame that so many frum people do. It should not be a game to see who is more to the right then who. With your answer you represent the bastardization of a very nice religion
"Why don't you start your own shul with all the myriads of people in this comment thread who can't stand the position taken by their rabbis..."
I'm ready to join. Sign me up.
I think they will put a figure head in charge and all will be forgotten as someone pointed out happened in queens with Brachs Mr Brach sold to his son, great system.
I guess you are right, we will either see if RYE is a team player in this community or if he stands alone.
there will be no winners in this we all have lost so much
That is very true, lets at least see if we can regain some dignity.
Uh, Mr. Brach didn,t sell to his son-just a clarification.
This way kehillahs can trade Rabbis the way sports teams trade players. Let's say a Rabbi takes a more stringent stand than most of his congregants would. Instead of the congregants moving, simply move the Rabbi one giant step to the shul on the right and take the Rabbi from the shul on the left.
Obviously flippant-but there is a serious point-in the past at least there have been some Rabbis more modern than their schul in the 5T's while at the same time there were Rabbis more vhareidi than their schuls. A trade would have been good for all.
Happy to see more people at GG today!!,including me shopping, lets hope some healing is beginning...
I can just speak for my family, i am going shopping there today
In the same article the Lawyer for the Vaad stated that the violation committed by GG was that they hired a Second Hasgacha which is a violation of the VAAD's contract with GG. Their own lawyer refused to make the libel allegations that all of the "papers" have made. The Rabbi's are totaly wrong on this one indicated by their silence and inability to explain to us (the community) what the trangressions were. Instead they tell us to not worry about our dishes if we don't buy after a certain day. They make the mob look honest!!!!!
There are no standards! Next time you are at a party especially one on Shabbos ask the Mashgiach if you can see his guidelines sheet. Also ask the Mashgiach what does he do if a question arises on shabbos ? Is there a rotation of rabbis in our area that exists ?
Are the mashgichim furnished with the name and home address of the closest or on duty in the rotation Rabbi so they an ask a Shailoh on Shabbos ??
Also when I mentined in an earlier post regarding how some businesses are allowed to do things others can not, I am not getting this information from proprietors and it is not propaganda as one person commented. For more details please email me or post here.
5TOWNSYID WHY ARE YOU SO SURPRISED?
How about the mashgiach at a supersol party in someones house. It was a non cholov yisrael party.
The mashgiach would not let the host put out hagen dasz ice cream in sealed new containers. Te mashgiach stated he would close down the party if they did try and put them out. Is the vaad employing imbeciles, or is Rabbi Eisen guilty of poor hiring practices ?
i worked for a company who dealt financially with la carne grill in 2010 and can tell you for a fact that the credit card scam is still being pulled. the company authorized a 2000$+ charge from a manager at la carne grill to pay back bills. it was found a month later that the card they authorized belonged to a charity, who had given them a deposit for a private room.
DO NOT trust this restaurant with your credit card. trust me.
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