Hate Crimes in the Five Towns
With anti-Semitic hate crimes on the rise in NYC, apparently some of that has spilled over the Eastern border of the city - and right into my backyard:
Here are some pictures of the swastikas in question (click on images to enlarge). And though, as the article notes, they may be quite small, the swastika is still an image of hate. As has been covered in the news of late, instances of these types of hate crimes seem to be increasing, but we must not allow ourselves to become complacent to the truly offensive nature of the symbol - one that has been used to express hate, violence and anti-Semitism.
Nassau police are investigating the appearance of swastikas on four stop signs at a Cedarhurst intersection, officials said.
According to police, a resident reported the small swastikas written onto the back and front of the stop signs at the intersection of Roselle and Fifth avenues around 2 p.m. Saturday.
113 Comments:
You people are like the girl in the slutty miniskirt and spike heels and too much makeup crying when she gets sexually assaulted. There is such a thing as asking for it. You think you can try to destroy a neigborhood and there will be no antisemitism to pay? live with the swastikas like we have to live with your garbage kosher restaraunts and wig stores.
1:19, you lost us at "she was asking for it".
There is such a thing as asking for it.
while there is such a thing as asking for it with most things, including emigrating en mass over a short period of time in to a new neighborhood, but your analogy is WAY beyond the pale anon.
Women never ask for such a thing, ever! Just because they dress in a certain way (i'm not going to get in to why) does not mean that they are inviting sexual innuendo and advance! Additionaly, just because a boy gets turned on by a girl, DOES NOT MEAN that he cannot control himself and must sleep with her, with her will or without it. Every boy can control himself in this regard, and honestly if they can't, they need to be castrated (completely, someone who abuses that gift from hashem has no right to be able to make use of it ever again) and/or killed. Preferably in a very painful way.
Uh, halfnutcase? A community that "including emigrating en mass over a short period of time in to a new neighborhood" is not asking for hate crimes. You have to recalibrate your ghetto jew meter. This is not 1939 Germany. It's 2007 America, and people can move wherever they legally want without being attacked. Would you say the same about an enmasse influx of blacks to a neighborhood? That they were asking for racism? Get with the program.
actually, on reading halfnutcase's comment again, it's pretty clear he has other problems. Thinking people ask for hate crimes by moving to a neighborhood looks like the least of it.
"asking for it" has nothing to do with the object observed and everything to do with the perceiver. It is a sick rationale on the part of one with problems, an attempt to transfer the problems to someone else by placing blame elsewhere. Women don't "ask for" rape; rape is the result of a lack of self control and impulse control on the part of the rapist. Part of the rage is self-directed--knowing that you are disobeying the rules--with a resulting transference to the one raped, so that the rapist can feel better about himself.
Anti-semitism works the same way. Anti-social, unacceptable responses to phenomena are rationalized away because they make the person holding the anti-semitic view uncomfortable; therefore, it must be the fault of the object of the anti-semitism.
Jews moving into a neighborhood did not cause the anti-semitism. It was always there, in the people who now have an "outlet" at hand that allows them to feel better about themselves. Anti-semites believe themselves to be "problem solvers" when the problem lies within them.
Hate crimes are really self-hatred outwardly deflected.
live with the swastikas like we have to live with your garbage kosher restaraunts and wig stores.
In the majority of American cities, Orthodox Jews are forced to live with "garbage" non-kosher restaurants (if there is a kosher restaurant in the small cities, it's usually the only one) and instead of wig shops, there are stores full of immodest clothing (not to mention strip clubs and honky tonks). Do you think those American towns are asking for anti-gentile symbols to be painted on their stop signs?
Sadly, I have a feeling that the anonymous poster of the first comment is not even a gentile, but rather a non-Orthodox Jew, whose well-ordered world of ignoring tough questions (why are we on this earth, what is our purpose here?) has been rattled by the huge presence of religious Jews in the neighborhood.
"live with the swastikas like we have to live with your garbage kosher restaraunts and wig stores."
The writer of this is clearly a product of a school system that forgot to teach logic and critical thinking skills. Or perhaps a student who couldn't learn them. Swastikas are a symbol of hatred, an irrational "mark" used to vent that hatred. Restaurants and stores are emblematic of the free commerce system. The two do not equate in any "sane" way. Free commerce is not a logical causality factor for irrational behavior.
The stores available are not to this reader's taste? Logic would dictate that he counter this by opening a store more to his taste. Apparently he can't do that so he rages instead. Impotency has always been illogically blamed on outside factors that have nothing, but nothing to do with the root cause of the problem.
I am deeply troubled by the swastikas left on street signs. Unfortunately I think that this is not the job of the kkk but more some misguided teens upset with district politics. As a reform jew, I am troubled with the jew vs jew mentality. This community is headed for a wake up call that will have unfortunate consequences. Comments made at the Newsday site somes it up. People see the following
Crumbling Schools
phones not working
playgrounds that are closed
The highering of consultants to close more schools, while the board spends thousands, and 29 million dollars sits in the bank. Oh, and by the way the jew haters, hate all of us, not just the religous.
The writer of this is clearly a product of a school system that forgot to teach logic and critical thinking skills.
to 9:36 am
Schools do not teach hatred. People learn that outside of school. I don't know what kind of school you were taught in.
The writer of this is clearly a product of a school system that forgot to teach logic and critical thinking skills.
to 9:36 am
Schools do not teach hatred. People learn that outside of school. I don't know what kind of school you were taught in.
"Schools do not teach hatred. People learn that outside of school. I don't know what kind of school you were taught in."
No, schools do not teach hatred, nor did I say that. However, where critical thinking skills and logic are not emphasized, where they are not core to all of the curriculum, where teachers do not put these on the "I must teach" list (or are not fully capable of teaching them)and where students are not pushed to get these skills and put them to use, irrationality is the outcome. And hatred and anti-semitism is irrationality taken to the outermost degree.
My school? Out of New York and ranked in the top ten of high schools nationally for all of my years of attendance. Oh yes, a public school, from an era where that was not a dirty word. A school where Aristotle's Rhetoric and its attendant rules of logic was required for seniors. Four years of English, four of history, three of science, three of math, two of Latin, three of another foreign language, art history, gym, health ed and those were only the required courses. Plenty of electives as well. Your point was?
The article quoted also said that these marks were apparently there for some time and it was only NOTICED at 2:20 PM on a Saturday (according to police). It is amazing how OM spins stories (forgets to add small details). Does OM write for Bill O'Reilly??? LOL.
Anyway, these are probably misguided teens, and who knows, it can be jewish teens who are doing this too. But the bottom line, is if you don't teach inclusion and tolerance, including the mingling of children of all race and faiths, this is going to keep happening. If you like a community that wants to be segregated and exclusionary, this is what happens.
Surprised we haven't seen any nooses around too. I'm sure those are coming too.
you know, this could be a teenager acting as a provocateur just to rile everyone up and then sit back and watch the show. i'm not at all saying it should be ignored, and if and when caught should be taught the modern symbolism behind the swastika, although i wouldn't be surprised if he or she already knew.
anon @1:19Am said "You people are like the girl in the slutty miniskirt and spike heels and too much makeup crying when she gets sexually assaulted. There is such a thing as asking for it. You think you can try to destroy a neigborhood and there will be no antisemitism to pay? live with the swastikas like we have to live with your garbage kosher restaraunts and wig stores."
Ooh this blog is getting some high class commentators now. . .I can just envision the writer of that comment scratching himself while sitting in a pool of spilled beer. And this guy thinks he's saving the neoghborhood . . .
11:49
I live right near the signs, and they most definitely did show up over the weekend. I don't know what you are even talking abput?
It's the equivalent of the noose that has been in headlines of late. Nobody is getting hanged and nobody is going to get deported & gassed. The creator of the artwork is most likely a MOT anyway.
the thing about this incident is it is probably not due to some sort of anti-Semite or non Jew; knowing the dynamics of the Five Towns area I would not be suprised to find out that the culprit in this attack as a Jew themselves, albeit more secular. Although I am a conservative Jew and do not always agree with the opinions of other Jews, I find it reprehensible that in this day and age, the biggest threat to a Jewish community in America is shown by Jews themselves who resort to tactics such as this.
a MOT??? Jay - please define...
My attempt to define Jay's "MOT" referance:
Mordern Orthodox Teen?
Member Of the Tribe.
As despicable as the first Anon comment is - justifying modern Nazism because he's unhappy with his new neighbors is some SICK stuff – you know what, HIS is not the craziest comment here.
“Half”Nutcase – please consider revising your name – you may have started off half nuts but the cycle is clearly complete.
Castration, executions, gifts from Hashem. OoooK…dude – you should really see someone … like make an appointment today.
As far as the "art" on the stop signs. Probably WAS some stupid teenagers - but, it's still very telling about what some people in the neighborhood are talking about over dinner.
There really does need to be more positive interaction between the two "communities" (who, by the way, live in the SAME community - but I digress...). I genuinely believe, perhaps naively so, that if people got to know each other better, 99% of these issues – including the vicious SD 15 issues, would go away. The vast majority of people are regular folks who do not want fighting and bickering in the neighborhood – they just want to be good neighbors and live their lives in peace.
Anyone have any ideas and how to bring us together in a positive way?
If your a Jew in Texas or anywhere below the Mason Dixon Line you make seek refuge with another MOT.
member of the tribe
I think the important question is what can we do to respond to the first commenter's concerns about the "garbage kosher restaraunts and wig stores"?
With respect to the wig stores, I think there's a pretty easy fix. Why not petition the village of cedarhurst to prohibit any new "wig stores" - all wigs should be ordered online or from brooklyn.
Any ideas as to how we can make sure that there are only classy kosher restaurants in town?
(Personally, I'm bit more turned off by all of the fancy clothing stores - but that's just my opinion)
anon 2:07pm,
Why would you even try to address the first poster's comments with a rational response? He/she most likely would not be satisfied with a petition to prohibit new wig stores. The wig store owners have every right to set up shop in Cedarhurst. (You obviously don't wear wigs, but I can tell you, that it's almost impossible to order a wig online--you have to feel the quality of the hair and try on the cap. Furthermore, driving all the way to brooklyn to get a wig would be a gross inconvenience for a working mother) Would you petition a black neighborhood to limit the number of beauty salons?
This reminds me of the argument that giving land to the Arabs will appease them. Open your eyes people! There some people that will never be appeased, no matter how much you try to make nice. Anonymous poster of the first comment is obviously one of those people that will never be appeased.
"Hate crimes are really self-hatred outwardly deflected."
Ummm, not necessarily, sometimes hate is simply that, an extreme dislike for another regardless of religion or color.
Hate is hate, on a street sign, on a blog comment. Whereever it is it should be punished. 1:19am has to much time on their hands.
Speaking as an outsider to the Five Towns, I find it very strange that several commentators would suggest that a Jew had scrawled the swastikas on the signs. There are self-hating Jews and confused Jewish teenagers - but the people who scrawl swastikas are usually non-Jews who do so to shock Jews (or other vulnerable groups - gay people, African-Americans, etc.). Last year at my college swastikas were scrawled on walls - no one suggested that Jews themselves had done it - they were seen as a general sign of hatred for gays, Jews, blacks, etc.
"Hate is hate, on a street sign, on a blog comment. Whereever it is it should be punished."
Well, regardless of what you think, we still have this little thing called the first Amendment which guarantees freedom of speech, so punishment isn't quite appropriate in the situation of the comments above, regardless of your outrage. Now don't take this as an affirmation of my support for the swastikas since it simply is not; I am simply pointing out that the same way you are protected while making statements to the effect that he/she should be punished is the same way they are protected for their statement.
Well, regardless of what you think, we still have this little thing called the first Amendment which guarantees freedom of speech, so punishment isn't quite appropriate in the situation of the comments above, regardless of your outrage.
Defacing public property is a crime.
those swastikas were spray painted by young immature Kids...not to specifically point out Orthodox people moving in...that would be on a Grander scale from a swastika..
to 7:50....I believe real Orthodox Jewish Teenagers most likely painted those swastikas. They did it to draw attention to the neighborhood so the police and media and political people could FOCUS on their needs.....very clever....another cry with the use of religion....
Brethren,
This is what happens to people who are not under the protection of our Lord Jesus Christ. Today invite Yeshua and His protection into your heart!
Shalom,
Rabbi Neal Wendrow
"I believe real Orthodox Jewish Teenagers most likely painted those swastikas. They did it to draw attention to the neighborhood so the police and media and political people could FOCUS on their needs.....very clever....another cry with the use of religion...."
Ah, yes, 8:49, the elders of zion have ordered the Orhtodox teenagers to do this. Very Very clever, but not atypical of their devious nature and criminal propensities, right 8:49. Now that they have successfully managed to involve the US in the middle east, they are able to FOCUS on the 5 Towns. Obviously it is all a conspiracy to take money and resources from BIGOTS LIKE YOU!
"Defacing public property is a crime."
Yes, and because it involved sawstikas it is categorized as a hate crime which carries a heavier penalty.
"Hate is hate, on a street sign, on a blog comment. Whereever it is it should be punished."
"Well, regardless of what you think, we still have this little thing called the first Amendment which guarantees freedom of speech, so punishment isn't quite appropriate in the situation of the comments above, regardless of your outrage.
Defacing public property is a crime."
Obviously defacing public property is a crime, if you notice I wrote that "punishment isn't quite appropriate in the situation of the comments above", but I should have known that there would be that one person who wouldn't quite understand while reading the comment; either learn to comprehend prior to making a reply or let me know and I will spell out any future comments like I am speaking with a 4 year old, thank you.
so you think punishing someone who has defaced public property with swastikas is not appropriate?
Maybe you think the First Amendment protects criminal activity? Maybe you believe the NYS penal code is aviolation of the Fisr amendment?
Or maybe that's not what you meant since you said its not "quite" appropriate?
Honestly, I have an Ivy league degree and I haven't got the foggiest idea what you are talking about. Do you?
And I'm a different guy than the "one person" who didn't comprehend you.
Maybe you had better "spell out any comments" like you are speaking with a 4 yer old. I still doubt that you will make any sense.
Jewish Teenagers? Comprehension problems? Yes, the constitution does provide you with certain rights. Defacing property is not one of them. I only hope it was a bunch of kids playing a prank. With all the bad publicity this district has received, the last thing we need is the kkk. Any district resident that gets caught defacing property should be forced to attend a full day course on the holocaust. They also should be forced to spend the day listening to lectures on tolerance. Really folks, this is a little much. Stop blaming each other for poor behaviior. Stop blaming the public school parents for private school students not getting more. Blaming a group of people for all your problems is a bad precedent to set, history tells us this.
As should 1:59 am, the 1st poster on this thread.
While the swastika is a symbol of hatred, I am pretty sure that it was done by the local teens who hang out in the area and possibly live on one the adjacent streets. It could even have been a non-orthodox jew. Anyone who knows the local area politics knows that that the town is divided between the orthodox and the non-orthodox/non-jewish residents. This is all a reslut of the local school district 15 issues.
FYI
The last time I checked the history books, the swastika was a symbol of an enemy of USA. The USA fought a war and won it against those bastards. So to whomever chose to draw that symbol, know that you are disrespecting your own country and youe ancestors who died defending this great country.
You ignorant idiots.
Orthomom, ever consider putting this blog out of its misery permanently?
All it does is give a soap box to those mental midgets who hate anything "Orthodox" or any philosophy that threatens their meaningless lives.
Why let them attack Jews who try their best to adhere to Hashem and His holy word, the Torah?
Let them vent their disgusting bigoted antisemitic beliefs elsewhere.
12:41pm
don't assume anything.
you know what happens when you do..
3:20
if orthomom shut down where would you vent???
what is the update on the OM/Pam Greenbuam law suit?
"Honestly, I have an Ivy league degree and I haven't got the foggiest idea what you are talking about. Do you?
And I'm a different guy than the "one person" who didn't comprehend you.
Maybe you had better "spell out any comments" like you are speaking with a 4 yer old. I still doubt that you will make any sense."
It must have been Jr. Ivy if you still haven’t begun to comprehend that a person making anonymous statements on a blog can't be "punished", as was suggested by a previous commenter. Not to mention that even if they were not anonymous, that pesky little first amendment thingy seems to allow people to make hateful statements if they see fit without legal retaliation. Try re-reading my prior post before making whatever rebuttal you see fit, as you may now notice that I was referencing the commented portion and not the physical desecration, but rest assured, I am finished defending my post to people who are either unable to or wantonly disregard comprehension of a commentary.
"hate crimes"...
Are there "love crimes"?
The first poster's comment makes me googly eyed. WHAT WIG SHOPS? Are there hat shops too? Can we franchise these and get some out my way? I'd LOVE for my neighborhood to be ruined by kosher restaurants. I'd take a tavern filled with chasidim toasting each other with vodka and arguing over mishna minutiae since the local bar closed. We might actually have people that corrupt our youth with things like, and I shudder to consider, walking on sidewalks instead of the middle of the street WITH THEIR SHIRTS TUCKED IN AND PANTS PULLED UP PROPERLY.
G-d forbid this should come to pass, right?
So, if anyone can actually find the ultra-super-secret Elders of Zion, please tell them we'd like a new base of operations in my stomping grounds, as well as for them to actually wake up and get working on their backlog of memos and mails on the ten-thousand-million disagreements between Jews, MOST ESPECIALLY *THE* BURNING QUESTION OF ALL TIME... Latka or hamantashen???? My wife and I have been covered in flour and water food fights over this and you know what a hassle cleaning up chametz on time is.
Such slackers they are.
Orthodox Jewish teenagers writing swastikas? How likely is that? I have to say I find this comment thread very strange. Many of the commenters seem to assume that the swastikas must have been drawn by fellow Jews - why make this assumption? The swastika is the symbol of the Nazis - why would a Jew (unless seriously disturbed) scrawl it on signs?
Below is a link to the Court's opinion in Greenbaum v. Google. Greenbaum lost.
http://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/fcas/FCAS_docs/2007OCT/3001020632007001SCIV.pdf
FYI:
Greenbaum lost. The decision was filed yesterday (10/23) in NY Supreme.
ah! so orthomom lives in cedarhurst, in the roselle, leroy, oak, and centre vicinity. interesting, very interesting...
This lawsuit is such a non issue. Who cares who orthomom is. Really in the grand scheme of things, nobody really cares. Perhaps Ms. Greenbaum can spend 250,000 of our district money to appeal this! What no chance of winning? Move ahead folks, we have other issues. The threat of school closings, which will not happen as long as our intelligent board continues to spend money on non school related issues. Can you imagine when the board tries to close a school? Hey we have no money, How bout the 80,000 a year we loose due to free building usage. Or the extra 25,000 in monies for cutodians double time and a half. Yes, these are just the little thing I find more impoartant to where orthomom lives, and who she is. Sorry.
"ah! so orthomom lives in cedarhurst, in the roselle, leroy, oak, and centre vicinity. interesting, very interesting..."
What rock are you living under? Everyone knows Orthomom lives in Borough Park.
NO NO NO, Williamsburgh
"Try re-reading my prior post before making whatever rebuttal you see fit, as you may now notice that I was referencing the commented portion and not the physical desecration"
Actually your writing is far from clear ("in the situation of the comments above"), and your assertion that anyone who cannot make heads or tails of your unclear writing and poor use of the English language is not more advanced that a 4 year old is just insulting to everyone, though it does offer insight into your state of mind and attitude. At the very least, before you hurl around insults, you yourself should make an attempt to write clearly and come across as somewhat educated.
I just read the decision. Wow! In the last paragraphs the court essentially said that Grenabaum (or her counsel) comitted perjury when they claimed that OM called her an anti-semite or bigot and that such assertion was demonstrably false.
I wonder of Greenbaum feels she somehow "cleared her name."
Orthomom shall live on forever in the books of law - we'll see the "Orthomom vs. Pamela Greenbaum" quoted again and again.
Thanks for putting Orthomom into the history books!
"Orthomom vs. Pamela Greenbaum"
Actually it was:
PAMELA GREENRAUM
- against -
GOOGLE, INC. d/b/a BLOGGER and
BLOGSPOT.COM
oops.
However, the case will make legal history and OM is attached to it.
Still Wonderin' said...
"ah! so orthomom lives in cedarhurst, in the roselle, leroy, oak, and centre vicinity. interesting, very interesting..."
What rock are you living under? Everyone knows Orthomom lives in Borough Park.
hey - that's mean! she could live in cedar bay park!
Actually your writing is far from clear ("in the situation of the comments above"), and your assertion that anyone who cannot make heads or tails of your unclear writing and poor use of the English language is not more advanced that a 4 year old is just insulting to everyone, though it does offer insight into your state of mind and attitude. At the very least, before you hurl around insults, you yourself should make an attempt to write clearly and come across as somewhat educated.
Duhhh, next tyme I wil do betterer and hab a publik schol teacher chek my speling and gramer insted of a yeshiba techer...duhhh, tanks 4 de advice.
5:03 PM must have that yeshiva edumacation.
If I was u orthomom,. I'd pack my bags and run..!
just a piece of information for the Orthodox community....the swastika was TURNED into a hate symbol by the Nazis, but it was DESIGNED as a greek symbol that stood for "Peace"....I'm surprised your brainwashed Law Students could not have found that out. Yeah...it;s a fact...sorry to tell you...I'd love to see it used again, maybe as a backdrop for the School Board....Im a public school homeowner and let me tell you your cold, forceful and thoughtless way of migrating and infesting the Five Towns with your existence is making this area vulnerable to something happening because SO many people around the WORLD ....even the conservative and reform Jews in Israel are reading your papers, websites and families over there who are related to these board members should be careful because they are dividing neighborhoods WHEREVER they move in....
7:37
What are u talking about??
I agree that the Orthodox Jews are selfish, thoughtless, only concerned with themselves. They bring anti-semitism to all Jews. And I am Jewish.
we'll c how u all feel wen ur rotting in hell and we are the ones publicly hateing u
if u dont like the 5 towns being orthodox...get the fuck outta there u losers
petitioning against wig stores??????? u people have nooooo lives! go get a real job and stop sittin on ur lazy asses lookin 4 ppl to hate and 4 things to complain about...and then just kill yourselves bc the world should be rid of ur disgusting beings
OMG all of you are going down. Reform, orthodox, all of you. Don't you see how you sound? You are going to start another holocaust amongst yourselves. It is very sad. Very very sad.
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